obviously if you end up dead we have to re-evaluate a bit. but if we get to 3-person lylo we can use the full time.
we have ~ 7 hours.
I'm probably gonna vote you.
Trust me when I say it has absolutely nothing to do with you suddenly suspecting me. I think everyone (including you) is town, or at least has good reasons for not being scum, but that you have the least "oh I think he could be town" points. And it's probably mostly because I'm less familiar with you than I am with Cantrip/KJ/vezok.
I'm only ~slightly worried about Cantrip snowing me, just because it would be just my luck for tom to randomly catch him at EoD1 and immediately die.
I've read cantrip's big post and I'm struggling to see why would scum Cantrip walk back on his emiko read instead of going balls to the walls against it. I'm less convinced he is scum right now. Like I'd assume scum Cantrip would pivot onto someone else instead of spending words doing almost nothing. The defense against role fishing sounds a bit iffy still, but the rest of the post is just sincere. Being a leading lynch candidate for today and simply backpedalling on someone and not offering any alternatives just isn't something scum cantrip does. I mean except if he is playing 5D chess and actually expects this kind of response.
unvote
vote megs
I'm not really liking anything megs is putting up for today. He just seems to skirt the thread and post about nothing. Him being a leading wagon on day 1 also doesn't help.
Can you explain why you think it's okay for Cantrip to walk back his read on Emiko, but not on you?
I've read cantrip's big post and I'm struggling to see why would scum Cantrip walk back on his emiko read instead of going balls to the walls against it. I'm less convinced he is scum right now. Like I'd assume scum Cantrip would pivot onto someone else instead of spending words doing almost nothing. The defense against role fishing sounds a bit iffy still, but the rest of the post is just sincere. Being a leading lynch candidate for today and simply backpedalling on someone and not offering any alternatives just isn't something scum cantrip does. I mean except if he is playing 5D chess and actually expects this kind of response.
unvote
vote megs
I'm not really liking anything megs is putting up for today. He just seems to skirt the thread and post about nothing. Him being a leading wagon on day 1 also doesn't help.
Can you explain why you think it's okay for Cantrip to walk back his read on Emiko, but not on you?
It's fine for Cantrip to walk on whatever read he wants. I just thought that progression seemed townie, while the progression on me is scummy. The problem is not the fact that he did, but the way he did it.
@megs: You're gonna have to come up with a lot more than that to even make me consider Vaimes as a possibility.
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I dunno, I saw it as very similar. I don't know what Cantrip has to gain by changing his mind on potential mislunches when his teammates are...kind of doomed. There's wine, and there's making things harder for yourself for no gain.
If Meg is town, I literally have no idea who it could be. vezok and Cantrip are marginally stronger townreads than Killjoy, but really if any of them are scum and get away with it, they've earned this win.
But I will be mega-salty about losing to the other two obvscum. >_>
I'm reading through KJ's posts, and then Meg's. If I come out of Meg's ISO feeling a townread that's equal to or stronger than anyone else, I might seriously suggest No Lunching because decisions are hard and procrastinating is rich in dopamine.
But given I don't think he's as towny as everyone else, and he's potentially trying to expand the PoE rather than limit it, that might not happen.
I'm reading through KJ's posts, and then Meg's. If I come out of Meg's ISO feeling a townread that's equal to or stronger than anyone else, I might seriously suggest No Lunching because decisions are hard and procrastinating is rich in dopamine.
But given I don't think he's as towny as everyone else, and he's potentially trying to expand the PoE rather than limit it, that might not happen.
I'm not sure no lynching is a good idea. We'll just end up in the same place with one less lynch. Seems pretty bad.
I will move to Megs if Cantrip doesn't gain support, but it's not my top pick.
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I feel like you're not taking into account the vca I presented. Vaimes spent all of d2 voting scum. Scum spent all of d2 voting Vaimes. Like, if the balance of reads had shifted, Vaimes could have been lynched. I don't see about doing that all of d2.
Admittedly, my world view is based around either you or Cantrip scum and Vaimes being the kill tonight. If me and Vaimes are still alive tomorrow I promise to look more into that possibility though.
I'm ready to vote if we have nothing else. I will come back on my break to do so. Should be in two hours.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I feel like you're not taking into account the vca I presented. Vaimes spent all of d2 voting scum. Scum spent all of d2 voting Vaimes. Like, if the balance of reads had shifted, Vaimes could have been lynched. I don't see about doing that all of d2.
Admittedly, my world view is based around either you or Cantrip scum and Vaimes being the kill tonight. If me and Vaimes are still alive tomorrow I promise to look more into that possibility though.
I'm ready to vote if we have nothing else. I will come back on my break to do so. Should be in two hours.
who are you talking to here?
my proposal to you is to consider the above as a planned and coordinated Daychat strategy. read back Tomorrow and think hard on it.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
I apparently didn't bold the thing I said I would bold.
> Scum spent all of d2 voting Vaimes. Like, if the balance of reads had shifted, Vaimes could have been lynched. I don't see about doing that all of d2.
^ this seemed very suspicious to me. Like, why do both scum spend so much time with just Vaimes?
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
I have spent weeks trying to get Last and Rhand lunched. You’ve demonstrated that their attention towards me trying to get them killed isn’t enough to be secure in my alignment. So what do you actually want from me?
You make your way towards your own room to start preparing for your performance and checking that your costume is alright. Halfway to your room, the current performance catches your attention.
I have spent weeks trying to get Last and Rhand lunched. You’ve demonstrated that their attention towards me trying to get them killed isn’t enough to be secure in my alignment. So what do you actually want from me?
intellectual curiosity and an attempt to solve the game.
i'm going to make one last Big Post with my thoughts, and then vote Vezok. after that I recommend lynching either Vezok or me Today. I don't care which. we're the main obstacles to the POE at this stage I think, and if people want to lynch me, Today is a better day to get me off of the table than Tomorrow.
GL, and don't forget to challenge your assumptions.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
I apparently didn't bold the thing I said I would bold.
> Scum spent all of d2 voting Vaimes. Like, if the balance of reads had shifted, Vaimes could have been lynched. I don't see about doing that all of d2.
^ this seemed very suspicious to me. Like, why do both scum spend so much time with just Vaimes?
For now I'm willing to fall to Occum's Razor here. While we know there was daychat, I don't think there's enough to know what was planned in it.
You being alive despite all the vague suspicion surrounding you all game makes you most likely scum.
No I did not finish, I'm about half way done with it but it incorporates everyone instead of just one person.
If the game doesn't end when you die I'll reexamine. The game probably just ends now though. I wish I was around to talk but I need to go back to work.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So this is what I was saying when I said there were no discernable patterns at first. Shadow and Last interacted with each other a fair bit, though not a ton, and of the living players there's nobody that really stands out between the two of them. You can see KCC jumps up a ton D2, which was when the CC thing went down. I went into Vezok next:
So, see why I was so turned on to Vaimes here? The two flipped scum are medium-to-high in the chart, and Vaimes, who was so high on the other charts, is basically nonexistent. Curious! During vezok reread I also
Actually, I feel less confident about it now that I've completed the full exercise. However, I want to look into it more Tomorrow if given the chance. The points of interest are:
Last Replaces in. Read this and watch closely what the two scum do with Vaimes. Last's vote, Rhand's 561, 564 (there's a lot of tongue in cheek posts like this one from Vaimes when it comes to Last that don't read like genuine town-scum interaction), 585 (where you have the culmination of a back-and-forth that looks real but doesn't end in any real pressure... from either of them)... then, actually important, 599/600 where they both vote Rhand directly in a row and then there's no questioning of it or anything from Vaimes. Keep going until 620 where Last unvotes without commentary on Vaimes. Last, 630:
@Rhand
I'd expect town to like not just believe it or at least think about, idk
its not a strong read in the very least, and Im about 70% sure you just got spewed town by all these votes
who are the wolf(s) voting you?
Despite Vaimes being on there, right?
652 Last votes... me! Pressure off of Rhand. (690 has a vc.). Vaimes spends a while saying he wants to be on Rhand without ever pushing the wagon and finally lands on... me! Of course, by now Last has moved to KK, but that's OK.
Anyway, is it possible that all of this nonsense was townVaimes and scumLast going at it and Rhand, a genuine scumread of Vaimes, getting caught up in the tangle? Sure. Though (this honestly is probably coincidental) Vaimes and Rhand didn't interact until after Last replaced in, mostly because Rhand didn't post.
Thoughts on other players:
Vezok - Natural progression of votes. There's clear development of reads (see KCC- I asked the question earlier Today and if you look back Vezok really was sus of KCC from before the claim! and then after the claim! and then votes after the case! It's probably a real read!)
^ this is what I was writing before you hammered me.
Here's what else I'm thinking:
see who gets NK'd. I'm kind of assuming that Vaimes gets NK'd if he is town. If he's still alive, don't *not* investigate him; see above. If he does die, most likely scum Cantrip. Difference between his town and scumgame is that he hides a lot of shade and slander inside of his walls when he's scum, which he's done here a few times. I didn't get a chance to check him in ISO or against the rest of the game yet so make sure to do that.
Killjoy, idk. I'm sus because usually everybody wants to lynch him when he's town? and nobody did here? But also he did that thing I said he did and that addressed a major hole in his towngame.
I don't feel like Vezok can actually be scum here.
Anything else before EOD?
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
i'm sure you guys will get the Last Scum though without me. Every time i've not been present for a lynch this game it's been on scum, so that should be good luck for Tomorrow right?
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
You see how the next performer is on their way to the stage as guards run towards them, surround them and prevent their entry to the stage. "Huh?" you think to yourself. Was it just those guys in the end...?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
After a moment, you realise what was wrong with the next performer! She wasn't even an European, but a Canadian!
"Let go of me, I'm representing Switzerland" she shouted to guards, but those words had no effect of the guards.
Apparently someone had ratted her out to the organisers and let them know that despite everything, she was Canadian and therefore had no reason to be here, representing an European country in this competition.
You just watched by, as they dragged the Canadian diva off somewhere else as she screamed and kicked while trying to resist the guards...
Megiddo has been lynched! They were:
Welcome to the game! Your role is the following:
Alignment: Town Role: Vanilla Song: Ne partez pas sans moi Performed by: Céline Dion Country: Switzerland
"Let me live
The most beautiful adventure
The most beautiful journey"
It's year 1988 in Dublin. Speculation about this years winner just keep heating up, since several big names are appearing on the stage this year. Lara Fabian from Luxenburg, Tommy Kärberg from Sweden are just few example. Still, one of the names from the list stands out the most: Scott Fitzgerald from United Kingdom! Despite being everyone's front runner for the winner, that pesky Switzerland has managed to acquire points almost as much as UK! The situation reached the climax, as only one jury was yet to give out points and UK had managed to keep the first place with only 5 point lead from Switzerland. And then this happened:
Somehow, out of nowhere, this unknown artist (called Céline Dion) representing Switzerland managed to snatch the gold metal from hands of UK. And that was just the beginning. This was just a start of a career, that would continue for several decades, leading to rise of one of the best selling female artists in a world!
Now, it's time for you to show others how you still haven't lost your edge, despite all these years! Those horrible performances attempting to ruin this show will pay!
You have no abilities.
You win when all the hostile performances have been dropped out of the competition!
Now, with just the few of you remaining, the situation was nearing its finale. You know all of this will end soon, one way or another...
It's now Night 4. Day 5 will start in ~24 hours.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
With the Switzerland's representative taken away by the guards, you started pondering what exactly makes someone "European" and "non-European". Your train of thought takes you to all kinds of places, until you come to a realization that despite this being a song contest between European countries with dozens and dozens of different official languages, English is still the most represented language with almost all participants singing at least partially in English.
Even thinking about people participating this time, English is still quite strong here, despite this time there being much more non-English songs than previously. Remembering that there was still that Portuguese guy who didn't sing in English at all, you decide to head to their place to ask them a few questions and their thoughts about that, only to find out that their room is locked and there's black-and-yellow tape on that door.
It looks like that the perpetrators have gotten yet another one of you.
Vaimes has been found dead! They were:
Welcome to the game! Your role is the following:
Alignment: Town Role: Vanilla Song: Amar pelos dois Performed by: Salvador Sobral Country: Portugal
"If your heart doesn't want to give in,
If it doesn't want to feel passion, if it doesn't want to suffer,
Without having to plan what awaits us afterwards,
My heart can love for us both"
Sometimes you don't need flashy performance, cool choreography or a huge group of back-up dancers. Sometimes all it takes is a charismatic artist and a song that will touch people's hearts. Despite not even being sing in English, your song managed to sneak its way to people's hearts all over the Europe and for that reason, you are the current holder of point record in Eurovision.
Even the story behind this song is moving. Your sister wrote this song, but after some thinking, she came to realisation that it doesn't fit her at all, and gave it to you, since it was more up in your alley. And as the results show, she was right.
Now, you just need to use your charisma to lead your fellow performers and identify the hostile ones among your group and ask security to kindly take them out of the back exit, so the rest of you can have a pleasant, friendly competition.
You have no abilities.
You win when all the hostile performances have been dropped out of the competition!
After seeing the scene and realising that there really isn't anyone left except you and the last few other people, you realise that this is it now. The next few moments are going to decide your whole life. You know you need to give it everything you got!
It's now Day 6. With 3 alive, it’s 2 to lynch. Deadline is on November 7th.
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Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Not Voting (5): tomsloger, Vaimes, KoolKoal, EmikoYuriemoto, Megiddo
It feels sorta unlikely that all three scum were perfectly ok sitting on the D1 lunchwagon together like this (and through the next four VC's, including the lunch). Small +town to Vez.
Not Voting (7): Killjoy, Megiddo, Lastwhisper, Cantripmancer, Vaimes, vezokpiraka, Sir Chris
2.7 Lastwhisper (3): EmikoYuriemoto, KittyCupCake, Vaimes
Megiddo (2): Killjoy, Sir Chris
KittyCupCake (2): vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
Not Voting (2): Megiddo, Cantripmancer
Ok, so either two scum were on Megiddo or two scum were on KCC at this point. I want to look back at how they got here, reasons/justification for votes, etc, because maybe there's a solution in there.
EWP: Ok, so KJ had been going at it with Megiddo, so the vote on Megiddo isn't unnatural.
Vez's vote on KCC was because she wanted to lunch among the cops and felt KCC was more likely scum than Wisp.
So I don't like KJ's vote because it pushed away from solving the cops (and onto town), and I don't like Vez's vote because she went the wrong way on which cop fake claimed. On the flip side, it's slightly more likely that Vez was just wrong (but had the right motivation, to solve the cops), than that KJ was tunneling? Maybe, I guess. I didn't get as much out of this as I hoped.
D2 Final Lastwhisper (5): EmikoYuriemoto, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Killjoy, Cantripmancer
KittyCupCake (2): vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
Megiddo (1): Sir Chris
Not Voting (1): Megiddo
So either scum!KJ bussed, or scum!Vez didn't.
3.1 Sir Chris (3): Vaimes, Megiddo, vezokpiraka
Not Voting (4): Sir Chris, Cantripmancer, Killjoy, EmikoYuriemoto
D3 Final Sir Chris (4): Vaimes, Megiddo, vezokpiraka, EmikoYuriemoto
Not Voting (3): Sir Chris, Cantripmancer, Killjoy
4.1 & 4.2 Cantripmancer (1): vezokpiraka
Not Voting (4): Cantripmancer, Vaimes, Killjoy, Megiddo
Hmm. Interesting. I slept for 12 hours and come back to being conf town. Cool.
Well, shadow's vote makes much more sense now that he knew I was town. Makes much more sense to join a wagon you consider scummy with your confirmed town person.
So yeah last can be town for now.
There's something off about Rhand. He seems to be saying the right words, but his heart doesn't seem to be in it.
vote Rhand
Now that we know they had daychat: did they really plan posts like this, but not coordinate Vezok's reaction to being confirmed town?
Still reading, have a post being worked up. I'm leaning Cantrip being the final scum atm though.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Cantrip: Talk to me about that big portion of 1216 @Emiko for me explaining why he's a strong townread. Why did you not put your vote back onto Last when Emiko was a strong townread? Why wait till the end of the day to hammer there?
Off to work. I will have time after to finish my read. I'm around that post atm.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Does it look coordinated to you? Her reaction is just "Oh, I'm confirmed? Neat!"
No, it doesn't look coordinated. I'm trying to figure out why you're saying that post was both planned and uncoordinated. Am I misunderstanding you? How can it be both?
Cantrip: Talk to me about that big portion of 1216 @Emiko for me explaining why he's a strong townread. Why did you not put your vote back onto Last when Emiko was a strong townread? Why wait till the end of the day to hammer there?
As I said in my next post, I neglected to unvote Emiko and at that point I thought Wisp was already at L-2, so I wasn't going to add my vote yet.
No, I'm saying [If Vez is scum and had daychat, why would they coordinate a series of interactions with each other, but apperently do nothing by way of planning Vez interaction with last about the claim.]
I think it's unlikely either were coordinated in daychat.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KJ RVS vote on Rhand is a bit weird, but his reaction to being questioned is solid.
#357 has questions for Rhand where he asks about tom/silver and comments on shadow not giving a direction when saying we shouldn't focus on tom/silver.
Could be interaction with buddies or simply noting stuff.
Caught up bit skimmed parts of tom vs silver.
If there is scum in tom/silver, it’s tom. Scum!silver wouldn’t draw all that attention to himself and would have dropped it when there was no support coming, while scum!tom has the confidence to push a mislynch like this and get away with it afterwards.
That said, I think it’s more likely KK is scum and tom and silver both town.
The way he picked a side at a moment where multiple people were saying that we should move our focus elsewhere makes a lot of sense from a scum standpoint that wants to continue this fight.
Megs has a post somewhere that almost reads like a confession. Will look it up when not on the phone.
My current world is KK/Megs/Vaimes?
The Vaimes read is still flimsy though.
@tom: where did KJ show he likes your fight?
@silver It has none of the features I attribute to scum Rhand, and some of the things town Rhand tends to do. So more town than not.
If he can maintain it then he's probably town. It should start to really see after a few more posts like this one.
This feels like positioning for a Rhand town read.
A few things before I start catching up fully again:
I'm pretty sure Rhand is town. The way he's handling the game is very much in line with his town game. His wagon should be informative to dissect.
I think Last is lying about his claim, but I don't think he's scum for it. He's probably >rand town for his claim actually. He just got off a game where he lost a game by blowing his claim. He came into this game immediately claiming. It would be... pretty ballsy to risk fakeclaiming so immediately after Modern.
Actually, if shadow didn't get to pick his target, as was my role in Death in the Family... maybe it's real. I was gonna say that shadow 110% picks tom for an n0 peek but he may not have had a choice.
I feel like there was something else. I can't remember.
Calling both scum town in a single post. This feels like a pretty balsy thing to do as scum. I'd assume scum KJ would at least mention another person to muddy the waters. Overall I think this post comes from town more often than scum.
#749 is a defense of Rhand's activity, but it's a fair point.
I'd say based on his posts, Last is slightly more likely town than scum. Even if we forget the claim debacle in Modern, there's a real engagement in his posts that aren't usually there as scum. I will not help you lynch Last today.
Now that Rhand has posted some more, I can say this for sure: Rhand is town. I started having a few doubts because he started getting snipey, but then he posted some more and I can say for (mostly) sure that this is pure town Rhand.
Also, I was thinknig about it at work: Rhand/Tom are likely unaligned for 633:
Dont think the rhand wagon is too fast or spewy or whatever. First 3 votes are clearly town to me, and vez/megs are possible scum that im not seeing as unaligned with him anyway
This is a weird position to take on a scumbuddy. Letting people think that the wagon speed pushes him in the town direction would be playing to his wincon if they were buddies, and letting him hang here doesn't make tom look good so there's no reason for him to do it if they're buddies.
That said, Last was the one who declared the wagon fast enough to make Rhand town be likely. And last pushes it a little. So there's some scum equity for the two of them... but for that to be true I'd have to be wrong on both of them. I'm putting it in my notes nonetheless.
Now, on to reading some more.I'll probably make a t/s list before the end of the night.
Oh, @Silver: Why are you willing to lynch half the game right now? 5 people is a bit much for D1, isn't it?
Another defense on both Rhand and Last. The fact that KJ switched to defending KCC and trying to get last lynched later speaks to this being a genuine read at that moment more than faking a townread on a scumbuddy.
#864 is a read list with KCC at the top, followed by Rhand and last. Makes sense to believe KCC more than last if she is on higher on your readlist.
#1099 is an attack on last. Not sure why scum would attack a buddy after townreading them all game. Maybe they discussed during the night to distance from each other? Seems implausible as it's just not a good strategy.
I think that KCC is town here. Her play this game of poking around is EXACTLY how a cop would probably act. Of the two I'd lynch Wisp, but I want it to be said that I don't actually want to lynch between them until we have a full claim going on. I'd like to know the full set up before I decide there's a dichotomy. I can't remember the game, but there were two roleblockers on town and I think we lost because of that in it.
I'm still on town Rhand. My view on him is similar to KCC's view on me. I'm confident I can read him. I think he's town this game.
I actually think Wisp+Vezok is a very real possibility given Vezok's play+positions. She hasn't given Wisp a fair shake, I feel.
My world is kinda at Megs < Wisp(+Vezok?) < Vaimes < Cantrip.
Wisp went from third townread to second likeliest scum. The progression makes sense though. Still thinking Rhand is town and being very sure of it.
I don't like the fact he wants a full claim and doesn't want to lynch between the cops.
#1394 is a big defense of KCC. Solid arguments. The scum strategy I see from this play and the previous post is to bus last hard and push for a mislynch on me later down the road, except KJ didn't do that. He continued to question the whole game and hasn't focused on me at all. This again points to KJ being town.
I'll try to find it over night and hope I'm alive enough to post it.
Scum very likely just all in [Cantrip, Last, Meg, Vaimes, with Chris a distant 5th]
This post kinda seals the deal for me. Why would KJ who townread Chrisslot all game suddenly add him as potential scum candidate and totally drop me, who he can push after last dies. This seems like the worst path imaginable to take as scum in this situation.
KJ on day 3 asks people to wait so Sir Chris can talk more. Could be scum trying to wait for a buddy to save himself, but I'd assume they talk in scumchat about this and decide on a plan.
@Vaimes: I would have answered had the day not ended so soon. I fell asleep, then when I woke up the day was over.
Since my Rhand meta is apparently outdated, there's no point in holding it back now. Town!Rhand doesn't know who the scum are. Town!Rhand (usually) has decent progression on people and (not usually, pretty much always) asks questions that he cares about. Town!Rhand makes similar posts to 549. Scum!Rhand doesn't care about his questions, has fake progression overall.
The problem with reading Rhand based on typical mafia tells is he makes a lot of them as town. I've tried that, it doesn't work for me. So I tried this, and it was working until now. So, thats why I read Rhand that way. I will note that I did notice/eyebrowed (but didn't really put too much stock into that because I thought my meta was much stronger than it was.
Now, like I said that post I quoted there was the only thing I had noted as people with scum equity together, so I was getting ready to at least reanalyze Rhand. Which is why I was saying that we should give Chris a chance to speak. I wanted to talk to him. I wanted to see if he ALSO didn't question my read on him. You'll notice in my post following his replace I said I had a townread on him with for no reason or whatever... I wanted to see his reaction to that. But then Day ended.
Do you have any questions for me about my scumread of you from earlier? I thought I explained that. (I think that might have been wrong now, but it was for sure there at one point.)
This feels like a good explanation of why he townread Rhand. I really like the part where he said he wanted a response from Chris for sayinghe townreads the slot for undisclosed reasons.
Overall I really hoped I'd find more in my reread to point to KJ being town, but his read progression is pretty solid. I'm going to reread Cantrip one more time before I vote, because I really expected more townniness from KJ's iso.
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@KJ: Can you point out other posts from Rhand where you feel he "has decent progression on people and (not usually, pretty much always) asks questions that he cares about. Town!Rhand makes similar posts to 549" ?
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I really liked KJ's Tom/Silver unalignment (explained further in later posts). I'm sure there's scum motivation to bust up that town catfight, but most scum would be content to let town slap it out.
I get a slight "mediator"/"conductor" vibe from some of KJ's posts. Like in 357 where he unvotes Rhand, then asks Rhand a question, then hedges on a Tom read (but says he'll look into it), then pushes Tom to look at KCC, then asks KCC about her Vez read, then asks Vez about KCC as well. That said, his responses to Silver in that post feel very natural, and at the end of the post when I tinfoil scum!Silver/scum!Tom theatre, KJ dismisses it pretty quickly and completely, which doesn't feel like a choice scum makes.
KJ is rather vague on why he likes Rhand's post, just saying that it has none of the things KJ associates with scum!Rhand and some things that seem town!Rhand (without going into any detail). Hmm, in 886 he tells Megs that he's not going into detail on purpose so that he can later catch Rhand as scum. Oh, he eventually goes into detail in 1664, but that's after Rhandslot flipped scum.
Something to keep in mind vis a vis the n0 peek was that the last (possibly only?) game it was in here on MTGS was by the same mod.
tom: Why does scum!Last fakeclaim immediately after the end of Modern given what happened?
This could be inside info, but just as easily could be KJ happening to make that connection. The last line is the kind of argument that I'd expect Wisp's buddies to push, but I also pushed it, lol.
I'd say based on his posts, Last is slightly more likely town than scum. Even if we forget the claim debacle in Modern, there's a real engagement in his posts that aren't usually there as scum. I will not help you lynch Last today.
Now that Rhand has posted some more, I can say this for sure: Rhand is town. I started having a few doubts because he started getting snipey, but then he posted some more and I can say for (mostly) sure that this is pure town Rhand.
Also, I was thinknig about it at work: Rhand/Tom are likely unaligned for 633:
Dont think the rhand wagon is too fast or spewy or whatever. First 3 votes are clearly town to me, and vez/megs are possible scum that im not seeing as unaligned with him anyway
This is a weird position to take on a scumbuddy. Letting people think that the wagon speed pushes him in the town direction would be playing to his wincon if they were buddies, and letting him hang here doesn't make tom look good so there's no reason for him to do it if they're buddies.
That said, Last was the one who declared the wagon fast enough to make Rhand town be likely. And last pushes it a little. So there's some scum equity for the two of them... but for that to be true I'd have to be wrong on both of them. I'm putting it in my notes nonetheless.
I initially liked the Tom/Rhand unalignment here, but... KJ, why do you "supertown" Rhand here, then try to suss Tom's alignment from how Tom would treat Rhand if they were buddies?
This is one of the posts that I have a hard time believing comes from scum. KJ's scumreading Tom and Silver posts an unofficial votecount and naked votes Tom and KJ questions Silver.
I've noticed several drops of "I've done this before". Current one is at the end of 935, but I know there were others. Could be an attempt to reinforce the feeling of "this is normal (town) KJ".
Another example of a conductor post, using Vez's read on Megiddo in conjunction with Megiddo's self-meta to involve both in a conversation. But that could probably come from town, as well, wanting to get reads (vs. stirring the pot).
Id just like to point out that that KK and Cantrip (at the 11th hour) somehow found more support than the Meg wagon despite the fact that it's been kinda holding on all Day. That is a thing that could be relevant.
KJ, what conclusion were you coming to with this observation?
1209. KJ highlights my D1 suspicion of Megiddo for being a counterwagon and asks if I think Rhand could be scum instead of Megs, which doesn't really feel like a buddy move. Comments to Emiko about the Wisp/Vez relationship could be trying to get Emiko thinking Vez is scum, but the questions there don't feel manipulative, just inquisitive.
KJ says I wasn't a Rhand/Meg counterwagon, just a CFD, and asks me who the scum on my wagon were. Which is pretty savvy if KJ knows that my wagon was all-town.
Actually, I sorta get the impression of KJ waiting to spring a trap in 1225 and 1239. Like he's trying to build associations between me and Rhand.
I don't think KJ ever doubts KCC after her claim? Which feels slightly less likely to come from town than from scum.
I probably should have kept track of the number of times KJ towned Wisp/Rhand and/or pushed away from them. It happens a lot.
I'll try to find it over night and hope I'm alive enough to post it.
Scum very likely just all in [Cantrip, Last, Meg, Vaimes, with Chris a distant 5th]
This post does the opposite for me that it seems to do for Vez: there's no progression I can see between KJ thinking Rhand is town and here. There are a few posts where he says one of Megiddo or Rhand is probably scum, but then he pushes Megiddo all over the place. In fact, his very next post has KJ asking people to summarize why Rhandslot is scum. Several mentions of wanting to let Chris talk before he gets lunched.
I'm feeling pretty demotivated right now because I feel like both of you are eyeing me, and no matter what my alignment, if I get lunched, I lose. I think I know which way I'm leaning, but I'd like to ponder things a little longer, and I'm going afk for the next few hours. It'd be nice to at least be able to put my final thoughts out before I get lunched so that I can at least be on record as being right or wrong, so if we can hold off on votes, I'd appreciate it.
Oh, I meant to add: it feels weird that no one's clamoring for a mass claim, which is probably the right thing to do. Given that both of you feel like you're suspecting me over the other, I'll claim. I'm Conchita Wurst, vanilla. Song is Rise Like a Phoenix.
Trust me when I say it has absolutely nothing to do with you suddenly suspecting me. I think everyone (including you) is town, or at least has good reasons for not being scum, but that you have the least "oh I think he could be town" points. And it's probably mostly because I'm less familiar with you than I am with Cantrip/KJ/vezok.
I'm only ~slightly worried about Cantrip snowing me, just because it would be just my luck for tom to randomly catch him at EoD1 and immediately die.
It's fine for Cantrip to walk on whatever read he wants. I just thought that progression seemed townie, while the progression on me is scummy. The problem is not the fact that he did, but the way he did it.
@megs: You're gonna have to come up with a lot more than that to even make me consider Vaimes as a possibility.
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Check out the Shop Thread
Vote Megiddo
If Meg is town, I literally have no idea who it could be. vezok and Cantrip are marginally stronger townreads than Killjoy, but really if any of them are scum and get away with it, they've earned this win.
But I will be mega-salty about losing to the other two obvscum. >_>
I'm reading through KJ's posts, and then Meg's. If I come out of Meg's ISO feeling a townread that's equal to or stronger than anyone else, I might seriously suggest No Lunching because decisions are hard and procrastinating is rich in dopamine.
But given I don't think he's as towny as everyone else, and he's potentially trying to expand the PoE rather than limit it, that might not happen.
I'm not sure no lynching is a good idea. We'll just end up in the same place with one less lynch. Seems pretty bad.
I will move to Megs if Cantrip doesn't gain support, but it's not my top pick.
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Admittedly, my world view is based around either you or Cantrip scum and Vaimes being the kill tonight. If me and Vaimes are still alive tomorrow I promise to look more into that possibility though.
I'm ready to vote if we have nothing else. I will come back on my break to do so. Should be in two hours.
I'm against it.
my proposal to you is to consider the above as a planned and coordinated Daychat strategy. read back Tomorrow and think hard on it.
> Scum spent all of d2 voting Vaimes. Like, if the balance of reads had shifted, Vaimes could have been lynched. I don't see about doing that all of d2.
^ this seemed very suspicious to me. Like, why do both scum spend so much time with just Vaimes?
I’ve read through the ISO’s of everyone, working on yours now.
You make your way towards your own room to start preparing for your performance and checking that your costume is alright. Halfway to your room, the current performance catches your attention.
Megiddo (2): Cantripmancer, Vaimes
Cantripmancer (1): vezokpiraka
Not Voting (2): Killjoy, Megiddo
V/LA: -
With 5 alive, it’s 3 to lynch. Deadline is on November 3rd 21.59 GMT (~2h 30min from this post!)
i'm going to make one last Big Post with my thoughts, and then vote Vezok. after that I recommend lynching either Vezok or me Today. I don't care which. we're the main obstacles to the POE at this stage I think, and if people want to lynch me, Today is a better day to get me off of the table than Tomorrow.
GL, and don't forget to challenge your assumptions.
Still got two hours. Are other people here until deadline?
You being alive despite all the vague suspicion surrounding you all game makes you most likely scum.
No I did not finish, I'm about half way done with it but it incorporates everyone instead of just one person.
If the game doesn't end when you die I'll reexamine. The game probably just ends now though. I wish I was around to talk but I need to go back to work.
Vote Megs
welp.
Hope that’s gg.
not gg. i think this is only the second time i've been mislynched ever!
The spoiler has interaction analysis info:
Vaime |||||||||||-----------
KoolK |||||||---------
sh/La |||||----------
Killj ||||---
Megid |||--------
tomsl |||-----
Kitty |||---
Silve ||---
Cantr |-----------
Emiko |--------
vezok |-------
LAST (D1)
Vaime |||||||||||----
Emiko ||||||||-
KoolK ||||||---
Silve |||||---
tomsl ||||--
Rh/Ch ||-----
Megid |--
vezok --
Cantr -
Kitty
Killj
LAST (D2)
Vaime |||||||||||||||||||--------
Kitty |||||||||||-----
Emiko |||||||||---
Cantr ||||||||-
KoolK ||||||---
Silve |||||----
Rh/Ch ||||---------
tomsl ||||----
vezok |||---
Killj |||
Megid ||-----
So this is what I was saying when I said there were no discernable patterns at first. Shadow and Last interacted with each other a fair bit, though not a ton, and of the living players there's nobody that really stands out between the two of them. You can see KCC jumps up a ton D2, which was when the CC thing went down. I went into Vezok next:
VEZOK
KoolK ||||||||||-----
Cantr |||||||||--------
Kitty |||||||||----
sh/La |||||--------
Rh/Ch ||------
tomsl ||---
Megid |---------
Vaime |-----
Silve |----
Emiko ----
Killj --
So, see why I was so turned on to Vaimes here? The two flipped scum are medium-to-high in the chart, and Vaimes, who was so high on the other charts, is basically nonexistent. Curious! During vezok reread I also
VAIMES (D1)
Silve |||||||||||||------
Kitty ||||||||||||-
Megid |||||||||||-
tomsl |||||||--------
Emiko |||------
Vezok |||-
sh/La ||-----
Cantr ||---
Rh/Ch ||
KoolK |--
Killj -----
^ up until Last replaces in.
Silve |||||||||||||||||||---------
Kitty ||||||||||||||||||--
sh/La ||||||||||||||----------------
Megid |||||||||||||--------
tomsl ||||||||||------------
Rh/Ch |||||||---------
Cantr |||||-----
KoolK |||----------
Emiko |||---------
Vezok |||----
Killj |-------
VAIMES D2
sh/La ||||||||||||||||||||||------------------------------------
Kitty ||||||||||||||||||||||----------------
Megid ||||||||||||||||||||||--------------
Silve |||||||||||||||||||----------
Rh/Ch ||||||||||||||---------------------
Cantr ||||||||||||||----------------
Killj ||||||||||||||-----------
tomsl ||||||||||--------------
Emiko ||||||||--------------------
Vezok ||||-------------
KoolK |||----------
Vaimes D3
sh/La ||||||||||||||||||||||--------------------------------------
Megid ||||||||||||||||||||||-----------------
Kitty ||||||||||||||||||||||----------------
Silve |||||||||||||||||||----------
Killj |||||||||||||||||-----------
Rh/Ch |||||||||||||||-----------------------
Cantr |||||||||||||||-----------------
Emiko |||||||||||||--------------------
tomsl ||||||||||--------------
Vezok ||||-----------------
KoolK |||----------
Actually, I feel less confident about it now that I've completed the full exercise. However, I want to look into it more Tomorrow if given the chance. The points of interest are:
Last Replaces in. Read this and watch closely what the two scum do with Vaimes. Last's vote, Rhand's 561, 564 (there's a lot of tongue in cheek posts like this one from Vaimes when it comes to Last that don't read like genuine town-scum interaction), 585 (where you have the culmination of a back-and-forth that looks real but doesn't end in any real pressure... from either of them)... then, actually important, 599/600 where they both vote Rhand directly in a row and then there's no questioning of it or anything from Vaimes. Keep going until 620 where Last unvotes without commentary on Vaimes. Last, 630:
Despite Vaimes being on there, right?
652 Last votes... me! Pressure off of Rhand. (690 has a vc.). Vaimes spends a while saying he wants to be on Rhand without ever pushing the wagon and finally lands on... me! Of course, by now Last has moved to KK, but that's OK.
Anyway, is it possible that all of this nonsense was townVaimes and scumLast going at it and Rhand, a genuine scumread of Vaimes, getting caught up in the tangle? Sure. Though (this honestly is probably coincidental) Vaimes and Rhand didn't interact until after Last replaced in, mostly because Rhand didn't post.
Thoughts on other players:
Vezok - Natural progression of votes. There's clear development of reads (see KCC- I asked the question earlier Today and if you look back Vezok really was sus of KCC from before the claim! and then after the claim! and then votes after the case! It's probably a real read!)
^ this is what I was writing before you hammered me.
Here's what else I'm thinking:
see who gets NK'd. I'm kind of assuming that Vaimes gets NK'd if he is town. If he's still alive, don't *not* investigate him; see above. If he does die, most likely scum Cantrip. Difference between his town and scumgame is that he hides a lot of shade and slander inside of his walls when he's scum, which he's done here a few times. I didn't get a chance to check him in ISO or against the rest of the game yet so make sure to do that.
Killjoy, idk. I'm sus because usually everybody wants to lynch him when he's town? and nobody did here? But also he did that thing I said he did and that addressed a major hole in his towngame.
I don't feel like Vezok can actually be scum here.
Anything else before EOD?
You see how the next performer is on their way to the stage as guards run towards them, surround them and prevent their entry to the stage. "Huh?" you think to yourself. Was it just those guys in the end...?
Megiddo (3): Cantripmancer, Vaimes, Killjoy
Cantripmancer (1): vezokpiraka
Not Voting (1): Megiddo
V/LA: -
That's a lynch! Stand by for end of day scene!
I'll read over night.
After a moment, you realise what was wrong with the next performer! She wasn't even an European, but a Canadian!
"Let go of me, I'm representing Switzerland" she shouted to guards, but those words had no effect of the guards.
Apparently someone had ratted her out to the organisers and let them know that despite everything, she was Canadian and therefore had no reason to be here, representing an European country in this competition.
You just watched by, as they dragged the Canadian diva off somewhere else as she screamed and kicked while trying to resist the guards...
Megiddo has been lynched! They were:
Alignment: Town
Role: Vanilla
Song: Ne partez pas sans moi
Performed by: Céline Dion
Country: Switzerland
"Let me live
The most beautiful adventure
The most beautiful journey"
It's year 1988 in Dublin. Speculation about this years winner just keep heating up, since several big names are appearing on the stage this year. Lara Fabian from Luxenburg, Tommy Kärberg from Sweden are just few example. Still, one of the names from the list stands out the most: Scott Fitzgerald from United Kingdom! Despite being everyone's front runner for the winner, that pesky Switzerland has managed to acquire points almost as much as UK! The situation reached the climax, as only one jury was yet to give out points and UK had managed to keep the first place with only 5 point lead from Switzerland. And then this happened:
"Switzerland - 6 points. Netherlands - 7 points. Germany - 8 points. Norway - 10 points. And finally... France!"
Somehow, out of nowhere, this unknown artist (called Céline Dion) representing Switzerland managed to snatch the gold metal from hands of UK. And that was just the beginning. This was just a start of a career, that would continue for several decades, leading to rise of one of the best selling female artists in a world!
Now, it's time for you to show others how you still haven't lost your edge, despite all these years! Those horrible performances attempting to ruin this show will pay!
You have no abilities.
You win when all the hostile performances have been dropped out of the competition!
Now, with just the few of you remaining, the situation was nearing its finale. You know all of this will end soon, one way or another...
It's now Night 4. Day 5 will start in ~24 hours.
With the Switzerland's representative taken away by the guards, you started pondering what exactly makes someone "European" and "non-European". Your train of thought takes you to all kinds of places, until you come to a realization that despite this being a song contest between European countries with dozens and dozens of different official languages, English is still the most represented language with almost all participants singing at least partially in English.
Even thinking about people participating this time, English is still quite strong here, despite this time there being much more non-English songs than previously. Remembering that there was still that Portuguese guy who didn't sing in English at all, you decide to head to their place to ask them a few questions and their thoughts about that, only to find out that their room is locked and there's black-and-yellow tape on that door.
It looks like that the perpetrators have gotten yet another one of you.
Vaimes has been found dead! They were:
Alignment: Town
Role: Vanilla
Song: Amar pelos dois
Performed by: Salvador Sobral
Country: Portugal
"If your heart doesn't want to give in,
If it doesn't want to feel passion, if it doesn't want to suffer,
Without having to plan what awaits us afterwards,
My heart can love for us both"
Sometimes you don't need flashy performance, cool choreography or a huge group of back-up dancers. Sometimes all it takes is a charismatic artist and a song that will touch people's hearts. Despite not even being sing in English, your song managed to sneak its way to people's hearts all over the Europe and for that reason, you are the current holder of point record in Eurovision.
Even the story behind this song is moving. Your sister wrote this song, but after some thinking, she came to realisation that it doesn't fit her at all, and gave it to you, since it was more up in your alley. And as the results show, she was right.
Now, you just need to use your charisma to lead your fellow performers and identify the hostile ones among your group and ask security to kindly take them out of the back exit, so the rest of you can have a pleasant, friendly competition.
You have no abilities.
You win when all the hostile performances have been dropped out of the competition!
After seeing the scene and realising that there really isn't anyone left except you and the last few other people, you realise that this is it now. The next few moments are going to decide your whole life. You know you need to give it everything you got!
It's now Day 6. With 3 alive, it’s 2 to lynch. Deadline is on November 7th.
Time to review everything.
I'll be doing that, along with some VCA at some point if no one else has hit the highlights already, but right now I have to go pick up my kids.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
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1.1
KittyCupCake (2): Silvercrys3467, KoolKoal
Vaimes (2): KittyCupCake, tomsloger
tomsloger (2): Cantripmancer, shadowlancerx
Megiddo (1): Rhand
Rhand (1): Killjoy
KoolKoal (1): Megiddo
Killjoy (1): EmikoYuriemoto
Silvercrys3467 (1): Vaimes
shadowlancerx (1): vezokpiraka
Not Voting (0): -
1.2
Megiddo (4): Rhand, Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Silvercrys3467
KoolKoal (3): Megiddo, shadowlancerx, vezokpiraka
Silvercrys3467 (2): tomsloger, KoolKoal
KittyCupCake (1): EmikoYuriemoto
vezokpiraka (1): Vaimes
Not Voting (0): Killjoy
1.3
Rhand (3): tomsloger, Vaimes, Lastwhisper
Megiddo (2): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake
tomsloger (2): Killjoy, Silvercrys3467
KoolKoal (1): vezokpiraka
Silvercrys3467 (1): Megiddo
Killjoy (1): EmikoYuriemoto
Not Voting (2): KoolKoal, Rhand
1.4
Rhand (4): tomsloger, Vaimes, vezokpiraka, Megiddo
Megiddo (3): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Lastwhisper
tomsloger (2): Killjoy, Silvercrys3467
Killjoy (1): EmikoYuriemoto
Vaimes (1): Rhand
Not Voting (1): KoolKoal
1.5
Rhand (4): Vaimes, Megiddo, tomsloger, KoolKoal
Megiddo (4): Cantripmancer, KittyCupCake, Lastwhisper, Silvercrys3467
KoolKoal (2): vezokpiraka, Rhand
tomsloger (1): Killjoy
Lastwhisper (1): EmikoYuriemoto
Not Voting (0): -
1.6
KoolKoal (4): vezokpiraka, Rhand, KittyCupCake, EmikoYuriemoto
Megiddo (3): Cantripmancer, Lastwhisper, Silvercrys3467
Rhand (2): Megiddo, KoolKoal
tomsloger (1): Killjoy
Not Voting (2): tomsloger, Vaimes
1.7
KoolKoal (4): vezokpiraka, Rhand, KittyCupCake, Lastwhisper
Megiddo (2): Cantripmancer, Killjoy
tomsloger (1): Silvercrys3467
Not Voting (5): tomsloger, Vaimes, KoolKoal, EmikoYuriemoto, Megiddo
It feels sorta unlikely that all three scum were perfectly ok sitting on the D1 lunchwagon together like this (and through the next four VC's, including the lunch). Small +town to Vez.
1.8
KoolKoal (4): vezokpiraka, Rhand, KittyCupCake, Lastwhisper
Megiddo (3): Cantripmancer, Killjoy, Vaimes
Cantripmancer (2): tomsloger, Megiddo
tomsloger (1): Silvercrys3467
Not Voting (2): KoolKoal, EmikoYuriemoto
1.9
KoolKoal (4): vezokpiraka, Rhand, KittyCupCake, Lastwhisper
Megiddo (3): Cantripmancer, Killjoy, Vaimes
Cantripmancer (3): tomsloger, Megiddo, EmikoYuriemoto
tomsloger (1): Silvercrys3467
Not Voting (1): KoolKoal
D1 Final
KoolKoal (7): vezokpiraka, Rhand, KittyCupCake, Lastwhisper, KoolKoal, Vaimes, tomsloger
Megiddo (2): Cantripmancer, Killjoy
Cantripmancer (2): EmikoYuriemoto, Silvercrys3467
Not Voting (1): Megiddo
2.1
Vaimes (2): Lastwhisper, Rhand
Rhand (1): Vaimes
Lastwhisper (1): EmikoYuriemoto
Cantripmancer (1): vezokpiraka
Not Voting (4): Cantripmancer, Killjoy, Megiddo, KittyCupCake
2.2
Vaimes (2): Lastwhisper, Rhand
Lastwhisper (2): EmikoYuriemoto, Cantripmancer
Rhand (1): Vaimes
Cantripmancer (1): vezokpiraka
Not Voting (3): Killjoy, Megiddo, KittyCupCake
2.3
Lastwhisper (3): EmikoYuriemoto, Vaimes, KittyCupCake
Vaimes (2): Lastwhisper, Rhand
EmikoYuriemoto (1): Cantripmancer
Megiddo (1): vezokpiraka
Not Voting (2): Killjoy, Megiddo
2.4
Lastwhisper (2): EmikoYuriemoto, KittyCupCake
Vaimes (1): Rhand
Megiddo (1): vezokpiraka
Rhand (1): Vaimes
Not Voting (4): Killjoy, Megiddo, Lastwhisper, Cantripmancer
2.5 & 2.6
Lastwhisper (2): EmikoYuriemoto, KittyCupCake
Not Voting (7): Killjoy, Megiddo, Lastwhisper, Cantripmancer, Vaimes, vezokpiraka, Sir Chris
2.7
Lastwhisper (3): EmikoYuriemoto, KittyCupCake, Vaimes
Megiddo (2): Killjoy, Sir Chris
KittyCupCake (2): vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
Not Voting (2): Megiddo, Cantripmancer
Ok, so either two scum were on Megiddo or two scum were on KCC at this point. I want to look back at how they got here, reasons/justification for votes, etc, because maybe there's a solution in there.
EWP: Ok, so KJ had been going at it with Megiddo, so the vote on Megiddo isn't unnatural.
Vez's vote on KCC was because she wanted to lunch among the cops and felt KCC was more likely scum than Wisp.
So I don't like KJ's vote because it pushed away from solving the cops (and onto town), and I don't like Vez's vote because she went the wrong way on which cop fake claimed. On the flip side, it's slightly more likely that Vez was just wrong (but had the right motivation, to solve the cops), than that KJ was tunneling? Maybe, I guess. I didn't get as much out of this as I hoped.
D2 Final
Lastwhisper (5): EmikoYuriemoto, KittyCupCake, Vaimes, Killjoy, Cantripmancer
KittyCupCake (2): vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
Megiddo (1): Sir Chris
Not Voting (1): Megiddo
So either scum!KJ bussed, or scum!Vez didn't.
3.1
Sir Chris (3): Vaimes, Megiddo, vezokpiraka
Not Voting (4): Sir Chris, Cantripmancer, Killjoy, EmikoYuriemoto
D3 Final
Sir Chris (4): Vaimes, Megiddo, vezokpiraka, EmikoYuriemoto
Not Voting (3): Sir Chris, Cantripmancer, Killjoy
4.1 & 4.2
Cantripmancer (1): vezokpiraka
Not Voting (4): Cantripmancer, Vaimes, Killjoy, Megiddo
4.3
Cantripmancer (1): vezokpiraka
vezokpiraka (1): Vaimes
Megiddo (1): Cantripmancer
Not Voting (4): Killjoy, Megiddo
4.4
Megiddo (2): Cantripmancer, Vaimes
Cantripmancer (1): vezokpiraka
Not Voting (2): Killjoy, Megiddo
D4 Final
Megiddo (3): Cantripmancer, Vaimes, Killjoy
Cantripmancer (1): vezokpiraka
Not Voting (1): Megiddo
Bleh, that wasn't really helpful to me. Maybe it'll be helpful to whichever one of you is town.
More in the morning.
Now that we know they had daychat: did they really plan posts like this, but not coordinate Vezok's reaction to being confirmed town?
Still reading, have a post being worked up. I'm leaning Cantrip being the final scum atm though.
Killjoy, you're saying that Vez's reaction to being confirmed town wasn't "coordinated" because it was so long after Wisp claimed the peek?
Doing some reading now.
Off to work. I will have time after to finish my read. I'm around that post atm.
As I said in my next post, I neglected to unvote Emiko and at that point I thought Wisp was already at L-2, so I wasn't going to add my vote yet.
I think it's unlikely either were coordinated in daychat.
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#357 has questions for Rhand where he asks about tom/silver and comments on shadow not giving a direction when saying we shouldn't focus on tom/silver.
Could be interaction with buddies or simply noting stuff.
Feels a bit like coaching.
#455 also feels a bit like coaching Rhand to post more, but can also come from town trying to solve.
This feels like positioning for a Rhand town read.
Calling both scum town in a single post. This feels like a pretty balsy thing to do as scum. I'd assume scum KJ would at least mention another person to muddy the waters. Overall I think this post comes from town more often than scum.
#749 is a defense of Rhand's activity, but it's a fair point.
Another defense on both Rhand and Last. The fact that KJ switched to defending KCC and trying to get last lynched later speaks to this being a genuine read at that moment more than faking a townread on a scumbuddy.
#864 is a read list with KCC at the top, followed by Rhand and last. Makes sense to believe KCC more than last if she is on higher on your readlist.
#1099 is an attack on last. Not sure why scum would attack a buddy after townreading them all game. Maybe they discussed during the night to distance from each other? Seems implausible as it's just not a good strategy.
Wisp went from third townread to second likeliest scum. The progression makes sense though. Still thinking Rhand is town and being very sure of it.
I don't like the fact he wants a full claim and doesn't want to lynch between the cops.
#1394 is a big defense of KCC. Solid arguments. The scum strategy I see from this play and the previous post is to bus last hard and push for a mislynch on me later down the road, except KJ didn't do that. He continued to question the whole game and hasn't focused on me at all. This again points to KJ being town.
This post kinda seals the deal for me. Why would KJ who townread Chrisslot all game suddenly add him as potential scum candidate and totally drop me, who he can push after last dies. This seems like the worst path imaginable to take as scum in this situation.
KJ on day 3 asks people to wait so Sir Chris can talk more. Could be scum trying to wait for a buddy to save himself, but I'd assume they talk in scumchat about this and decide on a plan.
This feels like a good explanation of why he townread Rhand. I really like the part where he said he wanted a response from Chris for sayinghe townreads the slot for undisclosed reasons.
Overall I really hoped I'd find more in my reread to point to KJ being town, but his read progression is pretty solid. I'm going to reread Cantrip one more time before I vote, because I really expected more townniness from KJ's iso.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I get a slight "mediator"/"conductor" vibe from some of KJ's posts. Like in 357 where he unvotes Rhand, then asks Rhand a question, then hedges on a Tom read (but says he'll look into it), then pushes Tom to look at KCC, then asks KCC about her Vez read, then asks Vez about KCC as well. That said, his responses to Silver in that post feel very natural, and at the end of the post when I tinfoil scum!Silver/scum!Tom theatre, KJ dismisses it pretty quickly and completely, which doesn't feel like a choice scum makes.
The secret way to read scum!Tom would be a rather brilliant bit of posturing from scum!KJ.
KJ is rather vague on why he likes Rhand's post, just saying that it has none of the things KJ associates with scum!Rhand and some things that seem town!Rhand (without going into any detail). Hmm, in 886 he tells Megs that he's not going into detail on purpose so that he can later catch Rhand as scum. Oh, he eventually goes into detail in 1664, but that's after Rhandslot flipped scum.
This could be inside info, but just as easily could be KJ happening to make that connection. The last line is the kind of argument that I'd expect Wisp's buddies to push, but I also pushed it, lol.
I initially liked the Tom/Rhand unalignment here, but... KJ, why do you "supertown" Rhand here, then try to suss Tom's alignment from how Tom would treat Rhand if they were buddies?
This is one of the posts that I have a hard time believing comes from scum. KJ's scumreading Tom and Silver posts an unofficial votecount and naked votes Tom and KJ questions Silver.
I've noticed several drops of "I've done this before". Current one is at the end of 935, but I know there were others. Could be an attempt to reinforce the feeling of "this is normal (town) KJ".
Another example of a conductor post, using Vez's read on Megiddo in conjunction with Megiddo's self-meta to involve both in a conversation. But that could probably come from town, as well, wanting to get reads (vs. stirring the pot).
KJ, what conclusion were you coming to with this observation?
1209. KJ highlights my D1 suspicion of Megiddo for being a counterwagon and asks if I think Rhand could be scum instead of Megs, which doesn't really feel like a buddy move. Comments to Emiko about the Wisp/Vez relationship could be trying to get Emiko thinking Vez is scum, but the questions there don't feel manipulative, just inquisitive.
KJ says I wasn't a Rhand/Meg counterwagon, just a CFD, and asks me who the scum on my wagon were. Which is pretty savvy if KJ knows that my wagon was all-town.
Actually, I sorta get the impression of KJ waiting to spring a trap in 1225 and 1239. Like he's trying to build associations between me and Rhand.
I don't think KJ ever doubts KCC after her claim? Which feels slightly less likely to come from town than from scum.
I probably should have kept track of the number of times KJ towned Wisp/Rhand and/or pushed away from them. It happens a lot.
This post does the opposite for me that it seems to do for Vez: there's no progression I can see between KJ thinking Rhand is town and here. There are a few posts where he says one of Megiddo or Rhand is probably scum, but then he pushes Megiddo all over the place. In fact, his very next post has KJ asking people to summarize why Rhandslot is scum. Several mentions of wanting to let Chris talk before he gets lunched.
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I'm feeling pretty demotivated right now because I feel like both of you are eyeing me, and no matter what my alignment, if I get lunched, I lose. I think I know which way I'm leaning, but I'd like to ponder things a little longer, and I'm going afk for the next few hours. It'd be nice to at least be able to put my final thoughts out before I get lunched so that I can at least be on record as being right or wrong, so if we can hold off on votes, I'd appreciate it.