It's also very easy for tom or anyone else to use that argument and pair it with shade and discrediting towards anyone who pushes him. He's pulled that style of play on me multiple times.
Being dismissive is not very far from that (and included in the instances to which I was referring). This game is in no way outside of tom's scum game.
If we lynched tom, and I was wrong, I'll shut up and go with the status quo for the rest of the game, if that's what people want. I'm busy with moving houses and jobs, and I don't really have the energy to spend going full throttle for too long this game, anyways. But Grapefruit is a bad lynch and Killjoy is a bad lynch.
1. Vaimes
2. Grapefruit21
3. Axelrod
4. tomsloger
5. Sir Chris
7. Cantripmancer
8. shadowlancerx
9. vezokpiraka
10. KittyCupCake r. KillerCandyCorn
11. Lastwhisper r. Syrenz
12. killjoy
13. Megiddo r. beeboy
Behaviorally significantly likely to be town...
Vezok -> Shadow
Chris
Lastwhisper
Vaimes
2. Grapefruit21
3. Axelrod
4. tomsloger
7. Cantripmancer
10. KittyCupCake r. KillerCandyCorn
12. killjoy
13. Megiddo r. beeboy
LHF; should probably not be the lynch for today:
Axel
Grape
Killjoy
Megiddo
4. tomsloger
7. Cantripmancer
10. KittyCupCake r. KillerCandyCorn
Tom's always more likely scum than Cantrip, and people don't want to see a KCC lynch as of yet (despite the slot being both scummy and caustic).
So Tom's the best lynch for the day.
This is a bad post, and it makes me want to revote Grape.
Axel and Meg's as LHF? Really? You couldn't figure out any other way to narrow the list down to where you wanted it to end up?
I really like Axel's points on Grape. These are the kinds of things I unvoted to look for, and I agree that things don't really add up regarding Grape's responses to Megs' role. I remember thinking someone (didn't think it was Axel, Wisp, maybe) might be a Town Delayer based on their response, but I agree that town weighs in there.
I'm good lunching Grape. I'd love to just vote now, but there are a few more things I want to look into first, time permitting, and I have no idea where we are on votes.
Axel and Meg's as LHF? Really? You couldn't figure out any other way to narrow the list down to where you wanted it to end up?
Come off it. They've been relatively inactive slots during this day phase (and Beeboy for longer).
Axel is close to neutral for me, in fact. I liked his posts from Day 1, but I don't think he's by any means a strong townread. Megs/Beeboy is a near non-existent slot after Beeboy's activity died out mid-Day 1.
Axel and Meg's as LHF? Really? You couldn't figure out any other way to narrow the list down to where you wanted it to end up?
Come off it. They've been relatively inactive slots during this day phase (and Beeboy for longer).
Axel is close to neutral for me, in fact. I liked his posts from Day 1, but I don't think he's by any means a strong townread. Megs/Beeboy is a near non-existent slot after Beeboy's activity died out mid-Day 1.
Like, Megs has not been particularly present, and about a third of the living players have fewer posts than that slot has combined.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Delayer for town with a delayed jack for scum seems unusual.
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Along with two town roles that are better when town mislynches, for less swinginess.
This game would be freakishly dickish for scum if grape is town, really.
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12 names where three of them are scum. I am mulling.
Let's talk about scum equity for the moment. Osie has almost none for the play here today, lightening the pressure off of me and going to grape/kj/kcc only to change tact and go to Tom like this. If Grape is scum you just complete the bus, if he is town you bury him. The tidbit about him possibly being confirmable seems to have just made Osie hesitate. I think that's genuine.
Tom/Megs almost can't exist as w/w. Wolf Tom has a shot to hold town hostage and he makes his scum buddy and the backup claim and that satisfies him to shoot the backup?
God post 2299 s such a sick read from Grapefruit. Voting Tom while openly shrugging and saying he is doesn't even think scum Tom does this. Claims to have thought Beeboy was scummy, decides to use power on them. Follow up with a vote. Slightly burned out, stretched too thin town. Sloppy reads. Does scum tell people to read my ISO when he has the facts wrong? It's such town vehemence. I think Osie has the right of this. There's no real scum mindset here. Why claim delayer when the day has assumed delayer is a scum role?
Wisp continues to show a good town mindset with that observation way before I got there.
##unvote: Grapefruit
...
Killjoy has not placed a single vote this entire day unless my iso of him is off.
##vote: Killjoy
This is at present the only wagon I will support.
Grapefruit please stop being wrong about KJ.
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Also I have doubts scum Grape who is partnered with scum KJ ever whines about me voting him instead of going after KJ. It seems way too complex a thought to fake like that. That factored into my decision as well.
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If we lynched tom, and I was wrong, I'll shut up and go with the status quo for the rest of the game, if that's what people want. I'm busy with moving houses and jobs, and I don't really have the energy to spend going full throttle for too long this game, anyways. But Grapefruit is a bad lynch and Killjoy is a bad lynch.
Instead of this why don't you listen to me? I was right about Azrael and I'm right about grape and KJ yet you prefer dumb lynches.
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@Axel it's shown part of the day scene. I believe it includes any deaths overnight. Confirming that now.
On unvoting Meg I don't really get your point. It was about the lack of anyone counterclaiming a protective of any sort or expressing any skepticism. I know that would have been bad play but that hasn't stopped anyone recently.
You don't get my point? At least 3 people, maybe more, have expressed that they believe the Delayer is a scum role, and you feel no need to say anything at all to contest this?
Why should anyone else expressing skepticism matter? Also, I'm pretty sure there was some skepticism. I'd have to check back.
You targeted someone, in your words, about random to be scum, as opposed to someone you actively thought was scum? And did not hint or post in any way to suggest this.
You agree it was bad play, but say hey other people have been playing bad too?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Grape having a confirmable role means literally nothing to me
What he said.
And I say this as someone who probably gets more than anyone else out of knowing what the roles actually are this game. It's still terrible to let him live just to make him do it.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
12 names where three of them are scum. I am mulling.
Let's talk about scum equity for the moment. Osie has almost none for the play here today, lightening the pressure off of me and going to grape/kj/kcc only to change tact and go to Tom like this. If Grape is scum you just complete the bus, if he is town you bury him. The tidbit about him possibly being confirmable seems to have just made Osie hesitate. I think that's genuine.
Tom/Megs almost can't exist as w/w. Wolf Tom has a shot to hold town hostage and he makes his scum buddy and the backup claim and that satisfies him to shoot the backup?
God post 2299 s such a sick read from Grapefruit. Voting Tom while openly shrugging and saying he is doesn't even think scum Tom does this. Claims to have thought Beeboy was scummy, decides to use power on them. Follow up with a vote. Slightly burned out, stretched too thin town. Sloppy reads. Does scum tell people to read my ISO when he has the facts wrong? It's such town vehemence. I think Osie has the right of this. There's no real scum mindset here. Why claim delayer when the day has assumed delayer is a scum role?
Wisp continues to show a good town mindset with that observation way before I got there.
##unvote: Grapefruit
...
Killjoy has not placed a single vote this entire day unless my iso of him is off.
##vote: Killjoy
This is at present the only wagon I will support.
Grapefruit please stop being wrong about KJ.
Well this is quite the flip. Seems like Sir Chris has done this a number of times this game. I don't really like switching on a dime like this. And using the exact same reasoning for Grape - why would he claim this as scum - that you used for Az? Have we learned nothing?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I was trying hard not to make 4 posts in a row because the only time I ever got a Warning in my life was for quad-posting in a mafia game (which was incredibly dumb but there it is) but no one else is posting and I'm tired of waiting so THIS IS HOW MUCH I CARE AND YOU ALL SHOULD APPRECIATE IT.
Vote: Grapefruit
I re-read his ISO. There is exactly nothing that stood out to me as being Townie. And I can not believe a Town would play his role the way he claims to have played it. It does not follow.
Anyone who does not understand this, please identify yourselves and I will explain it to you again.
*Oh Oise posted. Thanks!*
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
12 names where three of them are scum. I am mulling.
Let's talk about scum equity for the moment. Osie has almost none for the play here today, lightening the pressure off of me and going to grape/kj/kcc only to change tact and go to Tom like this. If Grape is scum you just complete the bus, if he is town you bury him. The tidbit about him possibly being confirmable seems to have just made Osie hesitate. I think that's genuine.
Tom/Megs almost can't exist as w/w. Wolf Tom has a shot to hold town hostage and he makes his scum buddy and the backup claim and that satisfies him to shoot the backup?
God post 2299 s such a sick read from Grapefruit. Voting Tom while openly shrugging and saying he is doesn't even think scum Tom does this. Claims to have thought Beeboy was scummy, decides to use power on them. Follow up with a vote. Slightly burned out, stretched too thin town. Sloppy reads. Does scum tell people to read my ISO when he has the facts wrong? It's such town vehemence. I think Osie has the right of this. There's no real scum mindset here. Why claim delayer when the day has assumed delayer is a scum role?
Wisp continues to show a good town mindset with that observation way before I got there.
##unvote: Grapefruit
...
Killjoy has not placed a single vote this entire day unless my iso of him is off.
##vote: Killjoy
This is at present the only wagon I will support.
Grapefruit please stop being wrong about KJ.
Hi.
I voted last today. whiff!
Are you pushing away from Tom here?
I still wanna vote for Tom but want to wait till closer to deadline because there's some interesting conversation going on
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
And I have decided it is entirely possible that Grapefruit/Chris is just scum theater.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
These wagons are excellent, especially since I'm happy seeing either flip.
Osie, your PoE list felt very shallow, like you were just trying to get to your end step as fast as you could.
Vote Grape
I feel like there's been a concerted push away from Grape, and regardless of role, I think he needs to be figured out. This also helps dig into those not on Az.
I was trying hard not to make 4 posts in a row because the only time I ever got a Warning in my life was for quad-posting in a mafia game (which was incredibly dumb but there it is) but no one else is posting and I'm tired of waiting so THIS IS HOW MUCH I CARE AND YOU ALL SHOULD APPRECIATE IT.
Vote: Grapefruit
I re-read his ISO. There is exactly nothing that stood out to me as being Townie. And I can not believe a Town would play his role the way he claims to have played it. It does not follow.
Anyone who does not understand this, please identify yourselves and I will explain it to you again.
*Oh Oise posted. Thanks!*
That rule got relaxed significantly; now as long as the posts are all content, you can post up to 5 reasonably without repercussions.
regardless of role, I think he needs to be figured out
You're the third person to say this.
@Lastwhisper, @Cantripmancer, @Axelrod: Why lynch a confirmable role that has next to no scum equity? Grape claimed the delayer. If Grape's coroner ability doesn't go off, he's a definite lynch for the next day. This is basic town play.
regardless of role, I think he needs to be figured out
You're the third person to say this.
@Lastwhisper, @Cantripmancer, @Axelrod: Why lynch a confirmable role that has next to no scum equity? Grape claimed the delayer. If Grape's coroner ability doesn't go off, he's a definite lynch for the next day. This is basic town play.
%%%
"Confirm-ability" means nothing in this context. What are you saying? If tomorrow comes and we get a reveal of the deceased roles you will go "ah ha, GF is confirmed!" I'm not even doubting he has that ability, precisely because there's very little scum-equity in false claiming it. I'm saying it does not make him Town. Period.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
uhhm the role is self has no scum equity you are correct, and its as confirmable as Azreals role was, it doesnt make him town
there are other aspects that do make me question his alignment, like him outright claiming the delayer makes no sense, but am I ready to bank everything on that given his posts, and inconsistencies, probably not
I thought about it a lot when I woke up, and while I was taking a shower, specifically Axel's points, as well as a specific Grape post which I cant think comes from a town mindset, the good ole General Hankerchief read, "Yes it was scummy, but others have done scummy things as well", its just pointing fingers and I hate it
pretty sure I just hammered
atleast I can go breathe now
I wanted this to last till EoD to get as much information out of everyone, but I didn't like how the train pushed away from Grape onto Tom off seemingly nothing
12 names where three of them are scum. I am mulling.
Let's talk about scum equity for the moment. Osie has almost none for the play here today, lightening the pressure off of me and going to grape/kj/kcc only to change tact and go to Tom like this. If Grape is scum you just complete the bus, if he is town you bury him. The tidbit about him possibly being confirmable seems to have just made Osie hesitate. I think that's genuine.
Tom/Megs almost can't exist as w/w. Wolf Tom has a shot to hold town hostage and he makes his scum buddy and the backup claim and that satisfies him to shoot the backup?
God post 2299 s such a sick read from Grapefruit. Voting Tom while openly shrugging and saying he is doesn't even think scum Tom does this. Claims to have thought Beeboy was scummy, decides to use power on them. Follow up with a vote. Slightly burned out, stretched too thin town. Sloppy reads. Does scum tell people to read my ISO when he has the facts wrong? It's such town vehemence. I think Osie has the right of this. There's no real scum mindset here. Why claim delayer when the day has assumed delayer is a scum role?
Wisp continues to show a good town mindset with that observation way before I got there.
##unvote: Grapefruit
...
Killjoy has not placed a single vote this entire day unless my iso of him is off.
##vote: Killjoy
This is at present the only wagon I will support.
Grapefruit please stop being wrong about KJ.
Hi.
I voted last today. whiff!
Are you pushing away from Tom here?
I still wanna vote for Tom but want to wait till closer to deadline because there's some interesting conversation going on
I wanted to come back to you and address why stuff felt superficial.
Going through your ISO, there's a lot of asking people to elaborate, there's a lot of filler, there's a lot of accusations without developed reasons, or with reasons that aren't directly in support, there's a little bit of making your own statements, with small levels of explanation, and then there's occasionally a meaningful point. I could pick out specific posts, but that could just be waved off as anecdotal.
Some of this could just be low-energy from being busy or being apprehensive from other games. But I can see why people are scumreading you here. It's like you've taken a step back and are "relatively-new Killjoy" just sticking your toes in the water again. Which is bizarre.
Where are the Killjoys of yesteryear? Your effort posts feel lackluster, not the monuments to hard-working town or scum. Your prodding is surface-level. It doesn't go anywhere. It's not maintained.
so this was the point in question,
"I know that would have been bad play but that hasn't stopped anyone recently."
feels like hes hand waving bad behavior as an excuse to defend his own actions
also what I said before, shading others imo
pretty sure I just hammered
atleast I can go breathe now
I wanted this to last till EoD to get as much information out of everyone, but I didn't like how the train pushed away from Grape onto Tom off seemingly nothing
pretty sure I just hammered
atleast I can go breathe now
I wanted this to last till EoD to get as much information out of everyone, but I didn't like how the train pushed away from Grape onto Tom off seemingly nothing
also thanks for the laugh,
hopefully Im not regretting this in a few hours
Well, I'm out again. If this is wrong I don't want to be right.
Plays that song.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
12 names where three of them are scum. I am mulling.
Let's talk about scum equity for the moment. Osie has almost none for the play here today, lightening the pressure off of me and going to grape/kj/kcc only to change tact and go to Tom like this. If Grape is scum you just complete the bus, if he is town you bury him. The tidbit about him possibly being confirmable seems to have just made Osie hesitate. I think that's genuine.
Tom/Megs almost can't exist as w/w. Wolf Tom has a shot to hold town hostage and he makes his scum buddy and the backup claim and that satisfies him to shoot the backup?
God post 2299 s such a sick read from Grapefruit. Voting Tom while openly shrugging and saying he is doesn't even think scum Tom does this. Claims to have thought Beeboy was scummy, decides to use power on them. Follow up with a vote. Slightly burned out, stretched too thin town. Sloppy reads. Does scum tell people to read my ISO when he has the facts wrong? It's such town vehemence. I think Osie has the right of this. There's no real scum mindset here. Why claim delayer when the day has assumed delayer is a scum role?
Wisp continues to show a good town mindset with that observation way before I got there.
##unvote: Grapefruit
...
Killjoy has not placed a single vote this entire day unless my iso of him is off.
##vote: Killjoy
This is at present the only wagon I will support.
Grapefruit please stop being wrong about KJ.
Hi.
I voted last today. whiff!
Are you pushing away from Tom here?
I still wanna vote for Tom but want to wait till closer to deadline because there's some interesting conversation going on
I wanted to come back to you and address why stuff felt superficial.
Going through your ISO, there's a lot of asking people to elaborate, there's a lot of filler, there's a lot of accusations without developed reasons, or with reasons that aren't directly in support, there's a little bit of making your own statements, with small levels of explanation, and then there's occasionally a meaningful point. I could pick out specific posts, but that could just be waved off as anecdotal.
Some of this could just be low-energy from being busy or being apprehensive from other games. But I can see why people are scumreading you here. It's like you've taken a step back and are "relatively-new Killjoy" just sticking your toes in the water again. Which is bizarre.
Where are the Killjoys of yesteryear? Your effort posts feel lackluster, not the monuments to hard-working town or scum. Your prodding is surface-level. It doesn't go anywhere. It's not maintained.
Killjoy of yesteryear is getting older and more tired. Also I'm not as caught up as is like to be. That's probably contributing.
I'll try to catch up over night. Hopefully night lasts past Wednesday so I'll be off that day.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm expecting this to be wrong... Well, at least Chris will get a tracker shot?
Grapefruit's role makes zero sense if he's scum.
The coroner is confirmable. If it didn't happen, he would be lynched.
The delayer on top of Azrael's role? What, to encourage Az to bus Grape? That's TERRIBLE design.
Claiming the delayer as he did? It just doesn't fit. And while I suspect that multiple scum are on this wagon, any town player who said "the confirmable role doesn't matter" just intentionally played this game badly. And that's a shame. But whatever. We'll see. I highly expect that Grape will flip town. If not, then the scum team played HORRIFICALLY this game. But this feels like the opposite. This feels like town is just walking along to scum's pace and that the day phase went exactly as scum planned. I expect that we will lose this game, by town tearing itself apart with bad play.
I really want to lynch last for that hammer regardless of Grapes alignment. And yet, I don’t even think I could confidently say that’s a scum last move.
Ah well, fingers crossed for a red flip.
Also, @vaimes: fwiw, Chris and...Tom or KJ (don’t remember) were competing wagons before I made the call for a Grape wagon, so there is that. It’s not gonna make a huge deal anyway since you’re never going to be able to lynch me, and it’s all moot if Grape is town anyway, but yeah.
I really want to lynch last for that hammer regardless of Grapes alignment. And yet, I don’t even think I could confidently say that’s a scum last move.
Can confirm that Lastwhisper hammers are often terrible as town. on scum.
Also, @vaimes: fwiw, Chris and...Tom or KJ (don’t remember) were competing wagons before I made the call for a Grape wagon, so there is that. It’s not gonna make a huge deal anyway since you’re never going to be able to lynch me, and it’s all moot if Grape is town anyway, but yeah.
@Osie
I don't like being told im playing the game intentionally bad
Normally I am all for letting things self-resolve, but there were many more variables that I placed above that in terms of this vote
@Shadow
Wisp does what he pleases, any alignment Wisp has the gaul to hammer any alignment if that helps, probably doesn't tho
By the way, I just want to say this before it is night: if I had to choose, I'd lynch Cantripmancer over Tom every time mechanically. Not putting any behavior into this atm, but the mechanics of the game favor a scum night vig and a town day vig over the reverse. This isn't a read, I just wanted to get this outside of my head before night comes.
Also as with Az I will hope that I have been tricked by weird and off the wall scum play, that'd be nice.
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@Osie
I don't like being told im playing the game intentionally bad
Normally I am all for letting things self-resolve, but there were many more variables that I placed above that in terms of this vote
Then you should have TALKED about those variables more. You should have explained your read better than "Confirmable doesn't matter", which is the same bad statement as Axel and Cantrip.
Being dismissive is not very far from that (and included in the instances to which I was referring). This game is in no way outside of tom's scum game.
I didn't say "this post". I said "this game".
I certainly haven't
Axel and Meg's as LHF? Really? You couldn't figure out any other way to narrow the list down to where you wanted it to end up?
I really like Axel's points on Grape. These are the kinds of things I unvoted to look for, and I agree that things don't really add up regarding Grape's responses to Megs' role. I remember thinking someone (didn't think it was Axel, Wisp, maybe) might be a Town Delayer based on their response, but I agree that town weighs in there.
I'm good lunching Grape. I'd love to just vote now, but there are a few more things I want to look into first, time permitting, and I have no idea where we are on votes.
Chris (3): Grape, kcc, last
tom (3): Vaimes, osi, grape
Kj (1): Axel
Abstain (2): Kj, Cantrip
Come off it. They've been relatively inactive slots during this day phase (and Beeboy for longer).
Axel is close to neutral for me, in fact. I liked his posts from Day 1, but I don't think he's by any means a strong townread. Megs/Beeboy is a near non-existent slot after Beeboy's activity died out mid-Day 1.
Like, Megs has not been particularly present, and about a third of the living players have fewer posts than that slot has combined.
This is only accurate if Grape's second vote lingered on Chris.
I would like Grape to do his coroner thing actually. There's some benefit to seeing full roles.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
This game would be freakishly dickish for scum if grape is town, really.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Let's talk about scum equity for the moment. Osie has almost none for the play here today, lightening the pressure off of me and going to grape/kj/kcc only to change tact and go to Tom like this. If Grape is scum you just complete the bus, if he is town you bury him. The tidbit about him possibly being confirmable seems to have just made Osie hesitate. I think that's genuine.
Tom/Megs almost can't exist as w/w. Wolf Tom has a shot to hold town hostage and he makes his scum buddy and the backup claim and that satisfies him to shoot the backup?
God post 2299 s such a sick read from Grapefruit. Voting Tom while openly shrugging and saying he is doesn't even think scum Tom does this. Claims to have thought Beeboy was scummy, decides to use power on them. Follow up with a vote. Slightly burned out, stretched too thin town. Sloppy reads. Does scum tell people to read my ISO when he has the facts wrong? It's such town vehemence. I think Osie has the right of this. There's no real scum mindset here. Why claim delayer when the day has assumed delayer is a scum role?
Wisp continues to show a good town mindset with that observation way before I got there.
##unvote: Grapefruit
...
Killjoy has not placed a single vote this entire day unless my iso of him is off.
##vote: Killjoy
This is at present the only wagon I will support.
Grapefruit please stop being wrong about KJ.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
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Instead of this why don't you listen to me? I was right about Azrael and I'm right about grape and KJ yet you prefer dumb lynches.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Why should anyone else expressing skepticism matter? Also, I'm pretty sure there was some skepticism. I'd have to check back.
You targeted someone, in your words, about random to be scum, as opposed to someone you actively thought was scum? And did not hint or post in any way to suggest this.
You agree it was bad play, but say hey other people have been playing bad too?
And I say this as someone who probably gets more than anyone else out of knowing what the roles actually are this game. It's still terrible to let him live just to make him do it.
tomsloger (4): Vaimes, osieorb18, Grapefruit21, KittyCupCake
Sir Chris (2): Grapefruit21, Lastwhisper
Killjoy (2): Axelrod, Sir Chris
Abstain (2): Killjoy, Cantripmancer
Vote: Grapefruit
I re-read his ISO. There is exactly nothing that stood out to me as being Townie. And I can not believe a Town would play his role the way he claims to have played it. It does not follow.
Anyone who does not understand this, please identify yourselves and I will explain it to you again.
*Oh Oise posted. Thanks!*
He was voting for Lastwhisper for a while.
I voted last today. whiff!
Are you pushing away from Tom here?
I still wanna vote for Tom but want to wait till closer to deadline because there's some interesting conversation going on
Osie, your PoE list felt very shallow, like you were just trying to get to your end step as fast as you could.
Vote Grape
I feel like there's been a concerted push away from Grape, and regardless of role, I think he needs to be figured out. This also helps dig into those not on Az.
That rule got relaxed significantly; now as long as the posts are all content, you can post up to 5 reasonably without repercussions.
You're the third person to say this.
@Lastwhisper, @Cantripmancer, @Axelrod: Why lynch a confirmable role that has next to no scum equity? Grape claimed the delayer. If Grape's coroner ability doesn't go off, he's a definite lynch for the next day. This is basic town play.
%%%
there are other aspects that do make me question his alignment, like him outright claiming the delayer makes no sense, but am I ready to bank everything on that given his posts, and inconsistencies, probably not
I thought about it a lot when I woke up, and while I was taking a shower, specifically Axel's points, as well as a specific Grape post which I cant think comes from a town mindset, the good ole General Hankerchief read, "Yes it was scummy, but others have done scummy things as well", its just pointing fingers and I hate it
vote: Grapefruit
yeet
atleast I can go breathe now
I wanted this to last till EoD to get as much information out of everyone, but I didn't like how the train pushed away from Grape onto Tom off seemingly nothing
I wanted to come back to you and address why stuff felt superficial.
Going through your ISO, there's a lot of asking people to elaborate, there's a lot of filler, there's a lot of accusations without developed reasons, or with reasons that aren't directly in support, there's a little bit of making your own statements, with small levels of explanation, and then there's occasionally a meaningful point. I could pick out specific posts, but that could just be waved off as anecdotal.
Some of this could just be low-energy from being busy or being apprehensive from other games. But I can see why people are scumreading you here. It's like you've taken a step back and are "relatively-new Killjoy" just sticking your toes in the water again. Which is bizarre.
Where are the Killjoys of yesteryear? Your effort posts feel lackluster, not the monuments to hard-working town or scum. Your prodding is surface-level. It doesn't go anywhere. It's not maintained.
"I know that would have been bad play but that hasn't stopped anyone recently."
feels like hes hand waving bad behavior as an excuse to defend his own actions
also what I said before, shading others imo
also thanks for the laugh,
hopefully Im not regretting this in a few hours
Will post flip after I finish some errands
Eta on this ahould be in a couple of hours, sorry
Plays that song.
I'll try to catch up over night. Hopefully night lasts past Wednesday so I'll be off that day.
Grapefruit's role makes zero sense if he's scum.
The coroner is confirmable. If it didn't happen, he would be lynched.
The delayer on top of Azrael's role? What, to encourage Az to bus Grape? That's TERRIBLE design.
Claiming the delayer as he did? It just doesn't fit. And while I suspect that multiple scum are on this wagon, any town player who said "the confirmable role doesn't matter" just intentionally played this game badly. And that's a shame. But whatever. We'll see. I highly expect that Grape will flip town. If not, then the scum team played HORRIFICALLY this game. But this feels like the opposite. This feels like town is just walking along to scum's pace and that the day phase went exactly as scum planned. I expect that we will lose this game, by town tearing itself apart with bad play.
Definitely gonna double down on tom + anyone who pulled away from him if Grape is town! Look forward to it!
Ah well, fingers crossed for a red flip.
Also, @vaimes: fwiw, Chris and...Tom or KJ (don’t remember) were competing wagons before I made the call for a Grape wagon, so there is that. It’s not gonna make a huge deal anyway since you’re never going to be able to lynch me, and it’s all moot if Grape is town anyway, but yeah.
Can confirm that Lastwhisper hammers are often terrible as town. on scum.
Well, nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah to you too.
I don't like being told im playing the game intentionally bad
Normally I am all for letting things self-resolve, but there were many more variables that I placed above that in terms of this vote
@Shadow
Wisp does what he pleases, any alignment Wisp has the gaul to hammer any alignment if that helps, probably doesn't tho
Also as with Az I will hope that I have been tricked by weird and off the wall scum play, that'd be nice.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Then you should have TALKED about those variables more. You should have explained your read better than "Confirmable doesn't matter", which is the same bad statement as Axel and Cantrip.
Also, you misspelled "gall".