I guess. I find wagonomics and my puzzle pieces more compelling than people's ability to identify fake claims but as you were.
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I actually can’t think of a Joat claim in recent memory from either alignment where the claimer listed everything up front, that does kind of bother me.
Which JOATs are you thinking of/which of those were under pressure of lunch? I mean, Silver's in Hill House was partial, but that doesn't count; he just up and claimed.
I am going off memory, but the instances I vaguely recall were all like “I have x, y, and something else I don’t want to claim”. And Silvers does count, I didn’t specify claim under pressure, you did.
No, I'm saying that there's a difference between what I think a JOAT would/should claim when pressured to L-2 as the potential lunch and when a JOAT claims otherwise. At least for me, it's correct to only claim some abilities of a JOAT in order to reveal one ability's outcome. But when under pressure of a lunch, I'd be much more likely--as town--to full claim.
When you posted that it bothered you that you couldn't remember the last time a JOAT fullclaimed, what specifically bothers you there in relation to Az's claim? Are you saying it bothers you [hence you think Az is more town] or [hence you think he's more scum]?
You seem somewhat suddenly more confrontational/prickly/grumpy, Shadow. Any reason why? Or am I misreading your tone/play?
Chris, what happened? You were bringing the pain, zoning in on me as possible scum, I respond and you just...find another theory to pursue without another word? I thought we were about to go toe to toe again! No adventures this time?
Eh, your story checked out that you are just bad at /barning things. No need to waste effort on something that isn't a strong lead.
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@Cantrip, my turn to tell you I probably should have added a
I think a Joat that is run up should probably full claim in lieu of lynch, but if they can get away with a partial provable claim then that seems the more likely option for them to take.
Eh, your story checked out that you are just bad at /barning things. No need to waste effort on something that isn't a strong lead.
Do you have to do this? Like, you could have just as easily said "your story checked out". But you added on "that you are just bad at /barning things", which at best makes me feel worse that I overgeneralized my /barn in the first place, but also makes me feel a little bit like an idiot on top of having a moment of poor communication, and at worst could be a a snide little smear on me if you're scum.
Bare minimum, be aware that I dislike your approach, I will continue to find you more scummy than not for needless digs like this, and I personally won't kowtow to or be cowed by them.
As far as the claim goes, there is exactly one person here who can assess it insightfully.
@Vezok, on a scale from -10 to 10, how do you view Az's claim? With 10 being we should clear him due to his claim, with -10 being we could lynch him based solely on his claim, and 0 being you don't think it's in anyway AI?
Scum read on Chris is now confirmed. That's the most bull***** way to try to save your buddy. Az needs death today.
Simply put our roles are not compatible with each other. All of his abilities are way better than all of my abilities with one exception where my ability might be on par with his. He gets to choose his effects, I get one random. His drawback is that the mod announces in thread that his role is powered up and he is only active starting with night 2, while my drawback is that I have to be on the lynch wagon. And that's not everything. I only get an ability if the lynched person is town. This is mostly irrelevant as I'd still try to be on every lynch, but it's another drawback of my role.
Simply put our roles are way too similar, while his is just better than everything I do. I know it's not a perfect reason, but it just seems too much. Like I understand putting a doc and a bodyguard in the same game to confuse the people, but this is a bit ridiculous. And still Az doesn't like playing scum and he knows how to claim stuff correctly. His claim feels like a weak attempt to stay alive.
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As far as the claim goes, there is exactly one person here who can assess it insightfully.
@Vezok, on a scale from -10 to 10, how do you view Az's claim? With 10 being we should clear him due to his claim, with -10 being we could lynch him based solely on his claim, and 0 being you don't think it's in anyway AI?
Mrgl.
I think it's good to have Vezok's perspective on this, but I think it's a bad assumption to think that Proph would establish multiple JOATs that functioned identically. Vez has already confirmed that there's nothing like the Tron-Lands-in-Thread element, so what makes him any more of an expert on analyzing Az's claim?
I think it's good to have Vezok's perspective on this, but I think it's a bad assumption to think that Proph would establish multiple JOATs that functioned identically. Vez has already confirmed that there's nothing like the Tron-Lands-in-Thread element, so what makes him any more of an expert on analyzing Az's claim?
He certainly has more info than I do to work with. And since I really don't want to see Vez claim, this is the next best thing.
I find two town JOATs fairly unlikely, and vez is townier than AZ even separate from claims
I have seen it before... in 50+ player mashes
And arguably the planeswalker style roles in the stmu game that the cat won? But that was more a game mechanic
Scum Chris CONFIRMED aww yeah love it when Scum Chris gets OWNED day one for hard defending a buddy just like in Hill mafia!
Cantripmancer - Did I say something wrong? You made a gaffe. An error. I attach no insult or demeaning behind that, but rather point out what has happened. In fact it is in your favor that I think you just messed up rather than scum trying to manipulate towards conclusion like I thought at first glance. Knowing when someone has been poor form on accident versus an intentional line of thought is important for understanding motives. You don't have to feel bad about anything, I have almost never used /barn in my life if it makes you feel better.
Also KCC you are so far down the tunnel with me I don't think what I post really matters anymore! I disagree with you on Axel though, I find it suspect. But fair to disagree.
Also if you get your abilities at random you are not actually a JoaT, but a schizophrenic (or there may be other names for it) where you choose a target and your abilities are selected at random. So you aren't counter claiming him at all!
But yes Scum Chris hard defending a buddy is a scum chris classic with many examples
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I thought Rhand's analysis of Az's claim was perfect. The thing about claiming something that'll entice town to leave you alive, but also avoid getting shot by the mafia.
Scum read on Chris is now confirmed. That's the most bull***** way to try to save your buddy. Az needs death today.
Simply put our roles are not compatible with each other. All of his abilities are way better than all of my abilities with one exception where my ability might be on par with his. He gets to choose his effects, I get one random. His drawback is that the mod announces in thread that his role is powered up and he is only active starting with night 2, while my drawback is that I have to be on the lynch wagon. And that's not everything. I only get an ability if the lynched person is town. This is mostly irrelevant as I'd still try to be on every lynch, but it's another drawback of my role.
Simply put our roles are way too similar, while his is just better than everything I do. I know it's not a perfect reason, but it just seems too much. Like I understand putting a doc and a bodyguard in the same game to confuse the people, but this is a bit ridiculous. And still Az doesn't like playing scum and he knows how to claim stuff correctly. His claim feels like a weak attempt to stay alive.
Lmao I love *****, "claiming to entice town *****", when it's literally his claim, you asked him to claim, and placed a train land, and somehow this became, "ogg he's trying to entice us", which I doubt everything about the role is made up, and if it is, you would think he could at least figure out what he was gunna say before he said it
If it's fake, it is most likely, the overall mechanics are what he says, but the rolls aren't
Also two joats in one alignment is unlikely, but like they are both gated behind walls, so **** if I know
Dont have a particular scumread of AZ aside from role but yeah. vezok is solidly >randtown and 25% v/v JOATs at most so thats at least 50% scum right there.
Prolly lower on the v/v, and w/w isnt a thing
I do believe the tron lands thing has meaning and hes probably roleless til n3 so not too worried.
Also KCC you are so far down the tunnel with me I don't think what I post really matters anymore!
If you are town, I'll likely figure that out. Otherwise, no, what you post probably won't help you. I'm not easily lured off scum
In the meantime, Chris, what would be an acceptable scum tell against you or Az? Since apparently everything that looks suspicious is actually evidence in your favor, being that you're both such perfect scum and incapable of mistakes
Well Az I am sure can have lots of scum tells, I am not sure of his scum meta at all I just like my conclusion for the game if I assume shadow/az are v/v because of the people who were off wagon being some people I find very suspect. Basically I am not saying it is utterly impossible for Az to be scum but I found the way he claimed and what he claimed to be highly unusual from scum. A scum would know that rolecop/roleblock as a role is just dumb. They would know a rolecop/cop in the same jack is just going to get weird looks. Now some may point to that and go "WIFOM" but I have found success in finding scum who aren't going for wifom that only someone like me is going to question rather than answering anything with 'WIFOM'
As for me, I am a prototypical power wolf. Unless I am like, inactive for real life reasons I tend to bus bad buddies readily and with precise, crisp logic that makes me look amazing. I can hardly think of any examples where I was suspected at all day one, much less lynched day 1 as scum. In fact, I am pretty sure I have an overwhelming scum victory rate period now that I think about it...
This is all in my history though, it isn't just me spinning tall tells!
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Good news for us I guess is if I am right and Az gets lynched at least Vezok gets to use his role!
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I mean if you want to talk 'worlds' it is far more likely Az is town and I am once again giving you guys TOO MUCH INFORMATION like Beeboy. I mean come on, be consistent.
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1. Vaimes
2. Grapefruit21
3. Azrael
4. Axelrod
5. tomsloger
6. Sir Chris
7. Fuwa
8. Cantripmancer
9. shadowlancerx
10. vezokpiraka
11. Rhand
12. KittyCupCake r. KillerCandyCorn
13. Lastwhisper r. Syrenz
14. dkingsland967
15. killjoy
16. beeboy
So let me build out a world and see how it goes.
Vaimes is town due to reaction to Az's claim
Vezok is trown due to reaction to Az's claim
KCC has displayed earnest which I tend to lean to town
Wagonomics make me think Shadow/Az are town
Psychology of posting makes me think Beeboy is town as well
It's my list so I get to be town too
4-5 scum in
Grapefruit
Axel
Tom
Fuwa
Cantripmancer
Rhand
LW
DKings
Killjoy
Of these 9, 5 were off the two main wagons (GF, Axel, Tom, Fuwa, LW)
3 were on Az (Cantripmancer, Rhand, dkings)
and 1 was on Shadow (Killjoy)
I don't think Az' wagon was pure, but I have severe doubts three scum hopped onto him if all my assumptions above are correct so 1-2 scum in Mancer/Rhand/DK, with me leaning towards one.
Killjoy is probably just scum if I am right about all of my town reads.
Which leaves 2-3 in the "we don't care who dies among the town members, so we'll just stay on our random wagons."
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I mean if you want to talk 'worlds' it is far more likely Az is town and I am once again giving you guys TOO MUCH INFORMATION like Beeboy. I mean come on, be consistent.
It's more likely Az tried defending you, because that's what scumAz does, and now you risked deflecting from him for whatever powerful ability(s) he didn't claim, especially since you could just WIFOM how you'd never do that as scum
There are spheres of chance at the moment, Tom. But if you want to be counted among the Az train it is noted.
I hate lazy logic though, I must say, KCC. We just ignore years and years of highly successful, town crushing scum meta from me to go "yeah but WIFOM tho." Yes, I suppose I could abandon principles that have assured I win almost every time to award winning adulation just so I can try to WIFOM you. I have been caught.
I guess we'll find out.
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Basically I am not saying it is utterly impossible for Az to be scum but I found the way he claimed and what he claimed to be highly unusual from scum. A scum would know that rolecop/roleblock as a role is just dumb. They would know a rolecop/cop in the same jack is just going to get weird looks. Now some may point to that and go "WIFOM" but I have found success in finding scum who aren't going for wifom that only someone like me is going to question rather than answering anything with 'WIFOM'
I think Az wanted to claim as close to his real role as possible, as it lowers the odds of being disproven or of slipping up later. I don't think he was expecting to get CCed by a town JOAT, and if he wasn't, that claim probably would have worked
Possibly, but Vezok isn't a JoaT for starters and secondly why would a scum Jack have a cop scan?
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Why would an honest scum Jack claim the rolecop part of their roleblock ability?
Why would an honest scum Jack substitute a cop scan for ??? role when they are already preparing to claim the rolecop part of their roleblock
why not claim roleblock/kill whatever/cop or
roleblock/rolecop, kill whatever, [any number of non cop powers here that looks less weird]
zzz
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Like I know you want me to be scum really badly, I have slight attitude problems and I am sometimes too good for my own good but I don't think anyone is going to find good answers to these questions beyond 'that's what is in his role PM' also I have never met a bus I didn't like.
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Why would an honest scum Jack claim the rolecop part of their roleblock ability?
Because that's the ability, and he didn't want to false claim more than necessary.
But yes, this was a mistake, and whoever his scumbuddies might be are justified in being upset about that.
Why would an honest scum Jack substitute a cop scan for ??? role when they are already preparing to claim the rolecop part of their roleblock
Because that ability is so blatantly antitown he couldn't claim it. And alignment inspection is both believable and super easy to fake.
why not claim roleblock/kill whatever/cop or
roleblock/rolecop, kill whatever, [any number of non cop powers here that looks less weird
Yeah, in hindsight, that would have been slightly better. -I don't know if that would have stood up against the CC either, or if his role as claimed wouldn't have worked without the CC. So, it might not have mattered. But I can understand if his teammates have some criticism there
Probably so, Az. I will defend you while you toil. We can be a team.
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Az I know you are lying about a certain part of your claim. I think you did it for town reasons but now is the time to come clean about what you lied about. If you don't I can't keep defending you.
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Az I know you are lying about a certain part of your claim. I think you did it for town reasons but now is the time to come clean about what you lied about. If you don't I can't keep defending you.
Not all details of ability #2 are either disclosed or accurate. Good enough?
My read on this is similar. To choose to vote even when it means town dies is absolutely self-serving. However, claiming this early does read more town to me and while I'd admit that it has been 7 years, I do remember Vezok being an entirely self-serving player.
It's long weekend in Canada here - will likely be inactive till Monday.
This is the post I was picking on Syrenz/LW to tell me what was wrong with it.
Here, Syrenz/LW slot entertains two opposed and contrary ideas at the same time, and then decides to choose one of them, on the spot. This is a thing scum tend to do, because they are having to decide how to view a post, rather than having an immediate organic reaction to it, and they tend to use strong language with regard to both alternatives while townies use their strong language on only the alternative they favor.
Syrenz himself only had 4 other posts, and nothing in the other three popped to me. Gonna post this short one, then see if my formatting's working as intended before dreadnoughting.
Az I know you are lying about a certain part of your claim. I think you did it for town reasons but now is the time to come clean about what you lied about. If you don't I can't keep defending you.
Not all details of ability #2 are either disclosed or accurate. Good enough?
Yes, ty
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Az I know you are lying about a certain part of your claim. I think you did it for town reasons but now is the time to come clean about what you lied about. If you don't I can't keep defending you.
Not all details of ability #2 are either disclosed or accurate. Good enough?
Az I know you are lying about a certain part of your claim. I think you did it for town reasons but now is the time to come clean about what you lied about. If you don't I can't keep defending you.
I make no such assumptions.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Az I know you are lying about a certain part of your claim. I think you did it for town reasons but now is the time to come clean about what you lied about. If you don't I can't keep defending you.
Not all details of ability #2 are either disclosed or accurate. Good enough?
Not really.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Aha... ok my memory sucks big time. I thought I already embarrassed myself when I forgot about Cantrip but now I feel even worse ><
How dare you refuse the honour.
Only scum does that.
Vote Cantripmancer
@Grapefruit21 For the sake of our budding friendship that will become real beautiful, you have to vote with me here.
@shadowlancerx You too, pretty pretty please. Don't bully the new kid.
Btw, based on my very reliable memory, Grape would vote with me because he's a good person. If he doesn't, that means he's scum.
---
I'm not sure what's the rule of double post here so I'll just write everything here.
Shadow, I don't think Rhand highlighted your dumbness, you did.
Oh, that's my everything.. I thought I had more to say but I don't.
Well that's unusually complimentary. That's not a problem, mindset and tone track well throughout.
Quote from fuwa »
Cantrip's #38 feels like an overstretch. It's fine as it is, but seeing that he sees it as a shade, which is scummy, (though Shadow did say vez is more town for it) I'd assume he'd push for Shadow a bit more, but he did not. He unvoted for no reason either.
No comment on Shadow's answer in page 1. I have a feeling I can't read this guy.
@vezokpiraka How did you get the impression I enjoy someone on my wagon? I enjoy creating one, but I don't really like people on my wagon. Wouldn't my vote on Cantrip makes it more likely an OMGUS? I agree I look pretty good , but I don't like your reading on me.
@KittyCupCake You don't like my fluff? Frown
What about it don't you like?
@Killjoy Not sure how I can help here. I've been between "innocent town" and "blatantly scum" in my past games, I'm confused at what I am either.
I'm liking KCC for town so far.
I also have a tugging feeling that Azrael is town.
Also, not a fan of Killjoy asking others about my playstyle instead of directly try to push/ask me things.
I like Vaimes in his interaction page 3. Not liking Cantrip response to it.
Not feeling Grape's reasoning at #178
I like Axel's #189.
Is fuwa female?
First sentence here is difficult to track, logically. But I think I still lean town on this post overall. In addition to the light-hearted attitude, fuwa seems to be relatively inexperienced. It's a bit more on the uncommon side of things for inexperienced scum to come off as this flippant and carefree and natural.
Think I might skim the rest of these posts just to see if anything jumps out at me, and if not, move on.
Quote from fuwa »
Vote Grapefruit
1. I think KJ is scum and his defense of KJ reeks of scum. (I'm not voting KJ coz I have nothing to add besides vote, may vote EoD though)
2. He's voting for Axel, that I think is townish. I don't see how Axel is more opportunistic than anyone else on the wagon. Not being able to read Shadow is one thing, not trying is another.
3. He ignored me.
4. I don't have a fourth reason actually.
Quote from fuwa »
Both.
Kinda' strong? If I have to rate between 1 to 10, it'll be 8.5.
Hmm... Cantrip didn't deny he was scum. He pretty much only ask why is that deflective. It's not big, but it's something for me. It's like saying you're scummy for drinking rotten melon. And your response wasn't that you're not scummy, or that you're not drinking rotten melon, or that the melon is not rotten but instead "how is the melon rotten?". It's just odd to me.
Hrmm. There's a lot of qualifiers on Fuwa reads. Can't parse if that's the inexperience talking, or not wanting to commmit. But then fuwa states her read as being fairly strong 8.5, and if I'm following this correctly, also then starts apologizing for it being "not big" but a thing "for me". Concludes with "it's just odd to me".
Fuwa states that Wisp has her meta, and no one else really would. Wisp, can you enlighten us?
Quote from fuwa »
Beeboy "misremembering" or giving different reasoning for the role madness thing isn't weird, given that he explained afterwards, but Sir Chris not being set off by it is.
If Beeboy is town, Sir Chris defense of him is TMI.
Oh rip, someone said this already. Brownie to KCC and vezok then.
@Vaimes why do you want a wagon on tom?
I think Cantrip is nitpicking and asking for unnecessary details about the role madness thing from Beeboy. I'd think this is scummy, but he claimed before that poking like this is something he'd do even as town so hmm.
I like his later interactions with others. It's more engaging than commentary. (Which is what I'm doing but oh well)
I was thinking Shadow is reasonable until #506. It doesn't sound like he's actually scumreading Chris. But I don't think I want to lynch here.
@Lastwhisper why do you keep pinging me but asking me nothing? :<
Also, why do you like the wagon on Shadow?
Vote Sir Chris
The Sir Chris vote kinda comes out of nowhere here at the end, and there's some things here that read like playing both sides of Chris v. Shadow. Then disappears off the map. Not great.
Vez would be next, but he's pretty hard town. Among other things, I actually give him credit for thinking he had a counter-claim. The mod-gaming assumptions implicit in that aren't reliable, but I completely buy that he's doing it for reasons he believes are valid. There were some tonal reads I got from him significantly before that which had me place him solidly in the town column earlier, but I'm dispensing with those for now.
Dkings: Starts early on questioning me, pinpointing unusual aspects of my play, assuming nefarious explanations for them. My favorite bit of that is this:
"Az's town case on Grapefruit actually makes sense in context, but I definitely had none of those impressions when I read the post in question the first time."
Thinks my case makes sense, but because he didn't pick it up himself on his first read, wants to barn Rhand's false dichotomy that I either have einstein IQ or am scum. IDK about einstein IQ, but one alternative is that I've played this silly game for way, way too long.
Quote from dkings »
Yuck, these posts are suuuuuuuper self-aware, especially when considering Vaimes just lost a game as scum where lurking was a primary reason why he got lynched.
This town is super-solid town.
Quote from dkings »
Everyone has either glossed over or ignored the other point I made against Killjoy in the post where I voted him. In 52, he uses a assertive tone toward KCC when he says "walk me through this". He wants an answer. Then, when KCC gives him one just a few posts later, he doesn't acknowledge it and just agrees with her re:Fuwa, with a "toss this out and see if it sticks" vibe.
Town. Actually getting upset when people don't pick up on his good reads. How many scum think to fake that kind of emotion?
Yeah, remaining posts also highly town consistent. Moving to next analysis target.
Running out of steam/time here for tonight. I don't suppose anyone will just take my word for it if I tell you that KJ is hard town, tonally, also?
So far I'm at:
Town
Grapefruit
Dkingsland - numerous strong townie attitude posts.
Killjoy – strong tonally
Vez - genuine attempt to counter-claim, strong tone.
cantripmancer
axelrod
Sir chris
KCC
Rhand
beeboy
fuwa - self-deprecating frequently, fence sits on both sides of shadow and sir chris, no reasoning for sir chris vote. Inconsistent in characterizing her own attacks, seems to suggest her attacks subjective and might be valid only in her own eyes. Very light-hearted/carefree in tone, which is somewhat unusual for inexperienced scum .
vaimes
Tom
Syrenz/LW - entertains two diametrically opposed ideas using strong language for each, wavers, then picks one. Not organic read.
Shadow
Mafia
I do enjoy how in many spots we are reading two very different games.
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When you posted that it bothered you that you couldn't remember the last time a JOAT fullclaimed, what specifically bothers you there in relation to Az's claim? Are you saying it bothers you [hence you think Az is more town] or [hence you think he's more scum]?
You seem somewhat suddenly more confrontational/prickly/grumpy, Shadow. Any reason why? Or am I misreading your tone/play?
Chris, what happened? You were bringing the pain, zoning in on me as possible scum, I respond and you just...find another theory to pursue without another word? I thought we were about to go toe to toe again! No adventures this time?
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This sort of thing is annoying but not AI.
You trying to pull attention away from Az, however, is not making me feel the slightest bit better about you.
If there is a pivot, which there should not be, I'm only moving my vote to Chris or fuwa, barring some monumental breakthrough in the next 48 hours.
I think a Joat that is run up should probably full claim in lieu of lynch, but if they can get away with a partial provable claim then that seems the more likely option for them to take.
I don’t know how I feel about Az anymore.
Bare minimum, be aware that I dislike your approach, I will continue to find you more scummy than not for needless digs like this, and I personally won't kowtow to or be cowed by them.
@Vezok, on a scale from -10 to 10, how do you view Az's claim? With 10 being we should clear him due to his claim, with -10 being we could lynch him based solely on his claim, and 0 being you don't think it's in anyway AI?
Simply put our roles are not compatible with each other. All of his abilities are way better than all of my abilities with one exception where my ability might be on par with his. He gets to choose his effects, I get one random. His drawback is that the mod announces in thread that his role is powered up and he is only active starting with night 2, while my drawback is that I have to be on the lynch wagon. And that's not everything. I only get an ability if the lynched person is town. This is mostly irrelevant as I'd still try to be on every lynch, but it's another drawback of my role.
Simply put our roles are way too similar, while his is just better than everything I do. I know it's not a perfect reason, but it just seems too much. Like I understand putting a doc and a bodyguard in the same game to confuse the people, but this is a bit ridiculous. And still Az doesn't like playing scum and he knows how to claim stuff correctly. His claim feels like a weak attempt to stay alive.
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I think it's good to have Vezok's perspective on this, but I think it's a bad assumption to think that Proph would establish multiple JOATs that functioned identically. Vez has already confirmed that there's nothing like the Tron-Lands-in-Thread element, so what makes him any more of an expert on analyzing Az's claim?
He certainly has more info than I do to work with. And since I really don't want to see Vez claim, this is the next best thing.
I have seen it before... in 50+ player mashes
And arguably the planeswalker style roles in the stmu game that the cat won? But that was more a game mechanic
Cantripmancer - Did I say something wrong? You made a gaffe. An error. I attach no insult or demeaning behind that, but rather point out what has happened. In fact it is in your favor that I think you just messed up rather than scum trying to manipulate towards conclusion like I thought at first glance. Knowing when someone has been poor form on accident versus an intentional line of thought is important for understanding motives. You don't have to feel bad about anything, I have almost never used /barn in my life if it makes you feel better.
Also KCC you are so far down the tunnel with me I don't think what I post really matters anymore! I disagree with you on Axel though, I find it suspect. But fair to disagree.
Also if you get your abilities at random you are not actually a JoaT, but a schizophrenic (or there may be other names for it) where you choose a target and your abilities are selected at random. So you aren't counter claiming him at all!
But yes Scum Chris hard defending a buddy is a scum chris classic with many examples
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If it's fake, it is most likely, the overall mechanics are what he says, but the rolls aren't
Also two joats in one alignment is unlikely, but like they are both gated behind walls, so **** if I know
Anyways bye!
Prolly lower on the v/v, and w/w isnt a thing
I do believe the tron lands thing has meaning and hes probably roleless til n3 so not too worried.
If you are town, I'll likely figure that out. Otherwise, no, what you post probably won't help you. I'm not easily lured off scum
In the meantime, Chris, what would be an acceptable scum tell against you or Az? Since apparently everything that looks suspicious is actually evidence in your favor, being that you're both such perfect scum and incapable of mistakes
As for me, I am a prototypical power wolf. Unless I am like, inactive for real life reasons I tend to bus bad buddies readily and with precise, crisp logic that makes me look amazing. I can hardly think of any examples where I was suspected at all day one, much less lynched day 1 as scum. In fact, I am pretty sure I have an overwhelming scum victory rate period now that I think about it...
This is all in my history though, it isn't just me spinning tall tells!
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Meanwhile, fun.
1. Vaimes
2. Grapefruit21
3. Azrael
4. Axelrod
5. tomsloger
6. Sir Chris
7. Fuwa
8. Cantripmancer
9. shadowlancerx
10. vezokpiraka
11. Rhand
12. KittyCupCake r. KillerCandyCorn
13. Lastwhisper r. Syrenz
14. dkingsland967
15. killjoy
16. beeboy
So let me build out a world and see how it goes.
Vaimes is town due to reaction to Az's claim
Vezok is trown due to reaction to Az's claim
KCC has displayed earnest which I tend to lean to town
Wagonomics make me think Shadow/Az are town
Psychology of posting makes me think Beeboy is town as well
It's my list so I get to be town too
4-5 scum in
Grapefruit
Axel
Tom
Fuwa
Cantripmancer
Rhand
LW
DKings
Killjoy
Of these 9, 5 were off the two main wagons (GF, Axel, Tom, Fuwa, LW)
3 were on Az (Cantripmancer, Rhand, dkings)
and 1 was on Shadow (Killjoy)
I don't think Az' wagon was pure, but I have severe doubts three scum hopped onto him if all my assumptions above are correct so 1-2 scum in Mancer/Rhand/DK, with me leaning towards one.
Killjoy is probably just scum if I am right about all of my town reads.
Which leaves 2-3 in the "we don't care who dies among the town members, so we'll just stay on our random wagons."
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It's more likely Az tried defending you, because that's what scumAz does, and now you risked deflecting from him for whatever powerful ability(s) he didn't claim, especially since you could just WIFOM how you'd never do that as scum
I just moved my vote a bunch after that to troll grape
I hate lazy logic though, I must say, KCC. We just ignore years and years of highly successful, town crushing scum meta from me to go "yeah but WIFOM tho." Yes, I suppose I could abandon principles that have assured I win almost every time to award winning adulation just so I can try to WIFOM you. I have been caught.
I guess we'll find out.
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I think Az wanted to claim as close to his real role as possible, as it lowers the odds of being disproven or of slipping up later. I don't think he was expecting to get CCed by a town JOAT, and if he wasn't, that claim probably would have worked
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He wouldn't, I'm guessing that ability slot is the reason you don't want to bus
Why would an honest scum Jack substitute a cop scan for ??? role when they are already preparing to claim the rolecop part of their roleblock
why not claim roleblock/kill whatever/cop or
roleblock/rolecop, kill whatever, [any number of non cop powers here that looks less weird]
zzz
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Because that's the ability, and he didn't want to false claim more than necessary.
But yes, this was a mistake, and whoever his scumbuddies might be are justified in being upset about that.
Because that ability is so blatantly antitown he couldn't claim it. And alignment inspection is both believable and super easy to fake.
Yeah, in hindsight, that would have been slightly better. -I don't know if that would have stood up against the CC either, or if his role as claimed wouldn't have worked without the CC. So, it might not have mattered. But I can understand if his teammates have some criticism there
Thinking my time tonight's best spent fleshing out town and scum reads.
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Az I know you are lying about a certain part of your claim. I think you did it for town reasons but now is the time to come clean about what you lied about. If you don't I can't keep defending you.
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Not all details of ability #2 are either disclosed or accurate. Good enough?
This is the post I was picking on Syrenz/LW to tell me what was wrong with it.
Here, Syrenz/LW slot entertains two opposed and contrary ideas at the same time, and then decides to choose one of them, on the spot. This is a thing scum tend to do, because they are having to decide how to view a post, rather than having an immediate organic reaction to it, and they tend to use strong language with regard to both alternatives while townies use their strong language on only the alternative they favor.
Syrenz himself only had 4 other posts, and nothing in the other three popped to me. Gonna post this short one, then see if my formatting's working as intended before dreadnoughting.
Yes, ty
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Well that's unusually complimentary. That's not a problem, mindset and tone track well throughout.
Is fuwa female?
First sentence here is difficult to track, logically. But I think I still lean town on this post overall. In addition to the light-hearted attitude, fuwa seems to be relatively inexperienced. It's a bit more on the uncommon side of things for inexperienced scum to come off as this flippant and carefree and natural.
Think I might skim the rest of these posts just to see if anything jumps out at me, and if not, move on.
Hrmm. There's a lot of qualifiers on Fuwa reads. Can't parse if that's the inexperience talking, or not wanting to commmit. But then fuwa states her read as being fairly strong 8.5, and if I'm following this correctly, also then starts apologizing for it being "not big" but a thing "for me". Concludes with "it's just odd to me".
Fuwa states that Wisp has her meta, and no one else really would. Wisp, can you enlighten us?
The Sir Chris vote kinda comes out of nowhere here at the end, and there's some things here that read like playing both sides of Chris v. Shadow. Then disappears off the map. Not great.
Dkings: Starts early on questioning me, pinpointing unusual aspects of my play, assuming nefarious explanations for them. My favorite bit of that is this:
"Az's town case on Grapefruit actually makes sense in context, but I definitely had none of those impressions when I read the post in question the first time."
Thinks my case makes sense, but because he didn't pick it up himself on his first read, wants to barn Rhand's false dichotomy that I either have einstein IQ or am scum. IDK about einstein IQ, but one alternative is that I've played this silly game for way, way too long.
This town is super-solid town.
Town. Actually getting upset when people don't pick up on his good reads. How many scum think to fake that kind of emotion?
Yeah, remaining posts also highly town consistent. Moving to next analysis target.
So far I'm at:
Town
Grapefruit
Dkingsland - numerous strong townie attitude posts.
Killjoy – strong tonally
Vez - genuine attempt to counter-claim, strong tone.
cantripmancer
axelrod
Sir chris
KCC
Rhand
beeboy
fuwa - self-deprecating frequently, fence sits on both sides of shadow and sir chris, no reasoning for sir chris vote. Inconsistent in characterizing her own attacks, seems to suggest her attacks subjective and might be valid only in her own eyes. Very light-hearted/carefree in tone, which is somewhat unusual for inexperienced scum .
vaimes
Tom
Syrenz/LW - entertains two diametrically opposed ideas using strong language for each, wavers, then picks one. Not organic read.
Shadow
Mafia
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@Vaimes @Beeboy why aren't you voting tom? You both said you'd be happy to so why not?
I'm tired of compromising.