Kinda toying with the massclaim idea, at this point how many people are unclaimed?
It's almost like you didn't even read what we wrote. You had Osie in your suspicious pile. What are the "points in his favor" that make Last a better target? Do you agree or not that his play was completely atrocious if actually Town?
No disrespect to osie, but him playing badly as town is right on par.
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Kinda toying with the massclaim idea, at this point how many people are unclaimed?
It's almost like you didn't even read what we wrote. You had Osie in your suspicious pile. What are the "points in his favor" that make Last a better target? Do you agree or not that his play was completely atrocious if actually Town?
How...does my post indicate a lack of reading?
Of my three:
Osieslot was a counter wagon to Az, and his poor targeting decisions are bad, but not so unbelievably bad that it must be a lie (plus bad play =/= bad guy).
KJ came into this day with some solid effort and analysis, which counts for something.
Last is playing as though he’s disheartened by 2 scum lynches.
And frankly, I want to push out claims on suspects sooner than later, so either votes on last or a massclaim would please me.
I think you always take care of KJ first here. Because I don't understand the scum mindset in any shape or form of coming in, defending me, AND bussing KJ and Grape only then to back off the bus last second to try to lynch Tom.
I know, scum are apparently special this game, but I do try to make some sense of this world still.
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Also effort counts for nothing, as far as KJ goes. This is not an effort based game. Whatever his role PM says, his role PM says.
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Kinda toying with the massclaim idea, at this point how many people are unclaimed?
It's almost like you didn't even read what we wrote. You had Osie in your suspicious pile. What are the "points in his favor" that make Last a better target? Do you agree or not that his play was completely atrocious if actually Town?
How...does my post indicate a lack of reading?
Of my three:
Osieslot was a counter wagon to Az, and his poor targeting decisions are bad, but not so unbelievably bad that it must be a lie (plus bad play =/= bad guy).
KJ came into this day with some solid effort and analysis, which counts for something.
Last is playing as though he’s disheartened by 2 scum lynches.
And frankly, I want to push out claims on suspects sooner than later, so either votes on last or a massclaim would please me.
Well, I know people say it like it's a maxim, but at a certain point bad play =/= bad guy is not actually true. You would also still be ignoring the other part where the scum apparently brazenly fired at the Doc claim in the face of a claimed Watcher ability. It's Mafia 101 for the Watcher to sit on the Doc in that situation. How could they have assumed Osie would pull a complete boner?
Agree to disagree about Last. He seemed pretty okay with hammering GF. I don't know where you are getting disheartened scum from. Because he said he had a headache and felt like ****?
Again, I feel like I get more from a massclaim than virtually anyone in terms of having stuff to analyze. But it seems unnecessarily premature?
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I want to highlight this sequence of events, because either Axel is town or he's the ballsiest, riskiest, craziest scum I've ever seen.
2268: Grape claims delayer + coroner.
2272 Wisp says being the delayer looks bad for Grape.
2273 Vaimes asks questions about Grape's choices.
2274 Proph posts the vote count with this wagon (7 to lunch): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, osieorb18, vezokpiraka, Cantripmancer
2275 KCC says coroner seems provable and useless for scum.
2276 I /barn KCC and unvote.
2277 Grape answers some questions.
2278 Chris votes Grape (probably +town, especially since he appeared to think he was hammering, but could also come from scum trying to quash spew/discussion)
2279 Proph posts the "final" votecount with me still on it.
2284 Proph posts the corrected votecount with Chris on, me off.
2285 Axel asks for 30 minutes to look at things.
2287 Wisp says Grape's choice to target Beeboy makes sense, but that the coroner part is NAI.
2290 Tom says he's still good with lunching Grape.
2291 Wisp points out that Megiddo is never wolf with Grape. 2292 Axel highlights all the discrepancies in Grape's choices. Lots of detail, no punches pulled, ends the post with great skepticism toward Grape, but no vote.
2293 Axel highlights Grape->Beeboy mentions, puts another nail in Grape's coffin. Still no vote.
2294 Axel says he has to leave and asks Grape a clarification question on the coroner ability.
It's the lack of vote here that points to town!Axel, imo. He wades in and dismantles Grape piece by piece. By the time I finished reading Axel's posts, there was very little doubt in my mind that Grape was scum. Scum!Axel could bus a buddy this thoroughly, I think, but in no worlds does he NOT vote, both for the hammer cred after a natural-feeling attack, and to stop the Day's discussion.
Just a few posts later Osie unvotes, asking if coroner is confirmable. Shortly after this, Osie spearheads the counterwagon on Tom with a post that includes "I want to lynch Tom toDay, and I don't think that I'm the only one here who does." Grape joins the Tom wagon, and there's a page of Chris being indignant and Osie stumping for Tom's demise. Chris moves from Grape to KJ, KCC moves to Tom, Vaimes moves to Tom. 2369 Vez says (paraphrased) "lunch Grape because I'm right". 2370 Axel comes back with questions for Grape, Osie, and Chris (all concerning Grape's claim). Osie posts a votecount showing that Grape and Tom are both at 4 votes. Again, scum!Axel could very easily have held off on the vote (there were still outstanding questions to Grape), or even found a reason to vote Tom, but he votes Grape. A few posts later I vote Grape, then a few more Wisp hammers.
Nope. Never will you ever convince me that Axel is scum this game. No way. No how.
I am also less convinced that Osie being Az's counterwagon is as town-indicative as I've been thinking.
Ok, so no one's claiming to have redirected me. I really expected Osie to claim as much (and that the fourth unmentioned-at-the-time ability was a redirect/bus drive, not a doctor), but, of course, that wouldn't be logical since he was pushing for Tom's lunch yesterDay, so why would he redirect a vig shot away from Tom (unless, of course, Osie's scum)?
So scum *do* still have an interference role. :/ To the extent that I want to find that role, I would like a mass claim, but we're at 10-2 with 7 unclaimed (if you count me, and you should count me). In a role madness game, that's a hefty chunk that scum still don't know about (at least 5 town roles, probably), so I don't know that it's a good plan quite yet?
Chris, can you go into detail as to why you feel this way?
By the way, I just want to say this before it is night: if I had to choose, I'd lynch Cantripmancer over Tom every time mechanically. Not putting any behavior into this atm, but the mechanics of the game favor a scum night vig and a town day vig over the reverse. This isn't a read, I just wanted to get this outside of my head before night comes.
I have (probably bad) reasons to think KJ's town, but I'm out of time for the moment. More when I can.
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Is anyone calling Axel anything but town? Oh maybe Shadow did actually, Shadow is silly if so.
Yes. So in my head, not as a player in this game but as someone who constructs games, it seems really weird to me to have a scum day vig and a town night vig because of the dynamics of vigs. Vigs are fairly often in a situation of "resolves itself" because if a vig fake claims the real vig will blow its brains out. So for scum day vig to do its job to either kill a buddy (but maybe still get shot by night vig who thinks it is a bus) or to kill town (and night vig shooting it for killing town + counter claiming killing power) doesn't seem like rewarding game design for scum. It's almost a trap for scum to ever claim the day vig with the meta as it is.
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Yes. So in my head, not as a player in this game but as someone who constructs games, it seems really weird to me to have a scum day vig and a town night vig because of the dynamics of vigs. Vigs are fairly often in a situation of "resolves itself" because if a vig fake claims the real vig will blow its brains out. So for scum day vig to do its job to either kill a buddy (but maybe still get shot by night vig who thinks it is a bus) or to kill town (and night vig shooting it for killing town + counter claiming killing power) doesn't seem like rewarding game design for scum. It's almost a trap for scum to ever claim the day vig with the meta as it is.
Ok, thanks for that clarification. How do you think that affects the likelihood that both vig roles are town?
Also, in my last post I said we were at 10-2. We're at 9-2. But still, I believe, 7 unclaimed, so...nah, I don't think a mass claim is a good idea yet.
@Chris: I am not silly, and I did have Axel as town lean from memory, and have since moved him up.
Also, no offense, but last sounding pure to you moves literally zero needles for me.
@Axel: WRT massclaim, it may be premature, but just watching How claims go in recent games, townies gush all their info out and then it peters off until it’s all out and scum have a lot of wiggle room, or never even get asked to claim (looking at Vaimes in GoT). Putting myself as scum in this position, if we order the massclaim correctly, they are boxed in and already down 2 people.
I’m not a day 1 proponent, but a circumstantial proponent, and the circumstances are pretty town favoring imo.
WRT Osie: yeah, he is still more likely scum than a great many people, I just don’t think he’s the best target today with our current info.
@Axel it's shown part of the day scene. I believe it includes any deaths overnight. Confirming that now.
On unvoting Meg I don't really get your point. It was about the lack of anyone counterclaiming a protective of any sort or expressing any skepticism. I know that would have been bad play but that hasn't stopped anyone recently.
Here, GF mentions Meg and claims and protection.
-The next two posts are Osie, with several more posts from him shortly after discussing posts in this area.
I guess he conveniently missed this exact post as well?
This game has been pretty straightforward in terms of "lynch scummy people." The whole osie thing, as KCC said, isn't just bad, it's super conveniently bad.
shadow, my reads are uh. Something. They've changed a bit with this whole "someone redirected Cantrip away from tom" nonsense, and osie's actions.
I think Cantrip is really town. Axel is pretty town. I'm ~still thinking Sir Chris is town. LW is kind of a tossup for me, I don't strongly think he's scum but I'm a bit uneasy there. Same for you, though your involvement on both scum lunches quenches that bloodlust a bit.
I will never know how to feel about KCC. Seems town, but don't like the "Az and Grape are never ever buddies" thing, or how she treated Az Day 1. There's some stuff that makes her more likely town unless she's powerwolfing with one of my townreads, which is a very unlikely scenario, sooo. vOv
KJ still seems like lunchbait, but I also agree that effort means next to nothing. It's a cheap easy way to look towny.
If I'm understanding this correctly, someone (probably scum) made it so that Cantrip targeted someone who is NOT tom. Which...looks bad for tom, no? I don't understand why someone would wine that sort of thing if tom's town, since...they could've just let Cantrip vig him.
I'm not that worried about lunching scummy villagers. It's Day 3 and half the scumteam is dead. I don't want to jump through hoops to explain away scummy behavior when scum haven't (so far) been playing 3D chess with us.
I would bet pretty heavily on 1-2 being unclaimed and 0-1 being claimed at this point. I don’t see much of a scenario where both scum are already claimed. I think we stand to quash scum entirely with massclaim. Specifically, there is a good chance that there is a scum redirector that will have to fakeclaim, and our strong roles (KP, Doc) are already in the open.
We should specifically order it though (people who have already claimed are on here solely to verify they have nothing else):
Last
KJ
Osie
Sir Chris
Tom
Cantrip
KCC
Vaimes
Axel
{shadow} (I’m willing to go marginally sooner)
@Cantrip
1. I asked because I couldn't remember if you were still sticking to the I'm a vig claim, or just a flavor cop, so yes given the first it makes sense you would target Tom
2. Idk why you are highlighting the non-voting aspect of his posts as the most genuine, but ya I dont think I can ever be convinced to vote Axel anymore
like Osie's claim is bad, like Silvercry's Hill House Mafia Dejavu bad, does it make him a wolf? no? can he still be a wolf? yes? I still wanna believe that how he handled Grape yesterday almost never comes from a wolf/wolf. though reads like this have failed me for much of all the game so far, so definitely not ready to take that to the bank
could very well be that wolf!osie, just forgot who claimed what
I am all for a mass claim, but if a wolf!redirector exists, they are never going to come out
more later, I am hoping the blunt of my cold subsides later in the day
Last is playing as though he’s disheartened by 2 scum lynches.
that makes no sense, stop making stuff up, in the world where I was a wolf, I would still play my heart out regardless of anything
it just happened that between work and my cold yesterday, it was just hard to concentrate on the game
also the only world where wolf me hammers wolf!Grape, is one where Tom is also a wolf
Re-reading Osie, and I had forgotten that he was totally on board with a GF lynch - said GF was his top pick and was voting for him - right up until the moment that GF claimed. And then, apparently, the fact that the role was "confirmable" made him do a complete 180 and we all became morons for still wanting to lynch him. And he got all angry and bitter about it even. Which continued into the night phase despite the correct lynch. Which is just weird.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
My scum picks are KJ, Sir Chris and osie. Someone is town out of the three, but I wouldn't oppose a lynch on any of them.
All other people seem solidly town. Last's hammer really makes me think he is town. I think tom is town due to overall play. Shadow can still be scum, but I'm not really seeing it. KCC too, but again they seemed incredibly town up until now.
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But you did have Vez's claim, so you knew he was essentially vanilla last night. Why Watch him? One would think the scum would have other priorities than a Town with no abilities.
I haven't looked yet. Taking this at face value...it's still bad. How sloppy do you have to be as Town to mess up this bad? On both shots of your ability?
Honestly, choosing two people who I thought were clearly enough town to be likely nightkill targets seemed reasonable. But clearly according to everyone here I'm a "sloppy", "atrocious", regularly bad town player. Not sure why I am even in the game. I figured I'd come back and do Proph a favour by offering to replace in, but I guess I'm so garbage at this game that I should quit playing mafia forever instead. And people had implied earlier that the toxicity on this site was likely on the up-and-up. That was a load of crap.
There's even one more reason to be suspicious of Osie that hasn't been stated yet. Probably a minor point but it exists. I'm not sure it's worth bringing it out yet.
Might as well. I mean, apparently I'm SO bad as town that I might as well be a member of the scum team.
Osie, could you clarify your neighbor option for me? You said it was a temp Day neighborization? How does that work?
As a 1-shot night action, I choose two abilities out of (Doctor, Watcher, Roleblocker, Temp-Day-Neighbourizer). Each ability targets a player.
The roleblocker is a standard roleblocker for that night.
The watcher is a standard watcher for that night.
The doctor is a standard doctor for that night.
The neighbourizer ability provides a private chat with the target for the duration of the following day phase.
See, this is that bitterness again. Do you not agree that it was a bad play (if you're Town)? Like, really bad? You shouldn't take that personally. You should own it.
That remark from Vez was more personal, sure, but what I'm saying isn't.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I’m just wondering, did you ever ask the thread what claims were on the board? Or did you not see any of the delayer discussion? Or the claims when tom was picking a daykill target?
@Osie: you’re taking things far too personally. Vez was full on Vanilla with the lynches, and watching a claimed doctor is almost certainly the best action in a night, so doing otherwise is gonna garner some reaction. If you’re town, reorient, and let’s solve the game.
See, this is that bitterness again. Do you not agree that it was a bad play (if you're Town)? Like, really bad? You shouldn't take that personally. You should own it.
That remark from Vez was more personal, sure, but what I'm saying isn't.
After the fact, I see that it was bad play. But I really didn't have much way to avoid that, and coming in assuming that my understanding of the gamestate is entirely wrong is not exactly a great game for me to play.
I’m just wondering, did you ever ask the thread what claims were on the board? Or did you not see any of the delayer discussion? Or the claims when tom was picking a daykill target?
The last time I asked for any help on this site catching up after replacement, I was rebuffed and scumread for it. I assumed, given that, that asking for help catching up was taboo.
Were there other claims that I missed besides the protective claim from Megiddo/Beeboy?
@Osie: you’re taking things far too personally. Vez was full on Vanilla with the lynches, and watching a claimed doctor is almost certainly the best action in a night, so doing otherwise is gonna garner some reaction. If you’re town, reorient, and let’s solve the game.
Yeah, my impression on both was that:
Vez was on the wagon, so therefore he was active that Night.
I had no idea on the claimed doctor; thought the slot had done little and said little.
%%%
%%%
But you're right, I did overreact to this thread in general. That's not a good way to go about things, and I'm sorry about that.
Because you haven't been cop-checked yet? Actually, in general, most of the townreading I did of you was based on early game, in particular your response to Vezok's claim. Mid-to-late-game is more neutral.
I'd agree with a Killjoy lynch in general, I guess. It does still feel too easy.
We should specifically order it though (people who have already claimed are on here solely to verify they have nothing else):
Last
KJ
Osie
Sir Chris
Tom
Cantrip
KCC
Vaimes
Axel
{shadow} (I’m willing to go marginally sooner)
Where would you put Vez?
I said you should not count me in the "claimed" category, and I meant it. My claim is so complex it'll make your head spin.
IF we massclaim, which...I could see potentially being wrecking for scum, but not necessarily so, I'd feel much more comfortable with something like:
Osie
Tom
Sir Chris
KCC
Last
KJ
Shadow
Vez
Vaimes
Axel
You could slot me potentially anywhere, but I think my fullclaim has a good chance to trip up scum, so I'd prefer being nearer the bottom of the list than the top. Certainly after Last and KJ.
Yes. So in my head, not as a player in this game but as someone who constructs games, it seems really weird to me to have a scum day vig and a town night vig because of the dynamics of vigs. Vigs are fairly often in a situation of "resolves itself" because if a vig fake claims the real vig will blow its brains out. So for scum day vig to do its job to either kill a buddy (but maybe still get shot by night vig who thinks it is a bus) or to kill town (and night vig shooting it for killing town + counter claiming killing power) doesn't seem like rewarding game design for scum. It's almost a trap for scum to ever claim the day vig with the meta as it is.
Ok, thanks for that clarification. How do you think that affects the likelihood that both vig roles are town?
Also, in my last post I said we were at 10-2. We're at 9-2. But still, I believe, 7 unclaimed, so...nah, I don't think a mass claim is a good idea yet.
Behaviorially you make sense as 'both town'
Shadow - tbh I don't mind that it moves no needles for you, I am kind of demoralized at my own bad play at this point. Don't like being fooled!
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That’s a fair point, I don’t be think KCC should be claiming before him. I would prioritize unclaimed scummy people ahead of those who’ve already partially claimed.
Also, you can say you should count as unclaimed, but you’re KP, so you’ve claimed enough for a baseline.
I might have been more interested in a mass claim if I thought there was the slightest chance scum might slip and claim my role. But as there is a 0% chance that happens in this game, I think I'm less interested. Plus that I'm not convinced that at least one scum hasn't already been forced to claim. So we'd be revealing like 6 Town roles to maybe make one scum claim, with no guarantees they have to false-claim anyway (yes, I suppose if one is a re-director then he can't claim that, but he might have something else he could claim anyway).
Like, I'm prepared to hear there are reasons for it beyond the obvious, I just haven't heard that yet.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm keeping my vote at least until I see a vote count, but not a fan of Osie's string of posts on this page in isolation
plus PoE wise I can't imagine at least one scum not being in chris/KJ/Osie
@axelrod
honestly im starting to think Grape just accidentally slipped and did what scum do, just splurge out all their role information
cause I can imagine a completely different lynch if not for the fact that Grape claimed delayer alongside coroner
I wonder if the coroner ability was just added as a fake claim? wouldn't be the easiest thing to fake claim in this game that with all the flavor based around our roles, but I guess the wolves could just claim VT
No disrespect to osie, but him playing badly as town is right on par.
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Of my three:
Osieslot was a counter wagon to Az, and his poor targeting decisions are bad, but not so unbelievably bad that it must be a lie (plus bad play =/= bad guy).
KJ came into this day with some solid effort and analysis, which counts for something.
Last is playing as though he’s disheartened by 2 scum lynches.
And frankly, I want to push out claims on suspects sooner than later, so either votes on last or a massclaim would please me.
Bad play I could believe. -Exceptionally convenient bad play I don't trust however.
I know, scum are apparently special this game, but I do try to make some sense of this world still.
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Agree to disagree about Last. He seemed pretty okay with hammering GF. I don't know where you are getting disheartened scum from. Because he said he had a headache and felt like ****?
Again, I feel like I get more from a massclaim than virtually anyone in terms of having stuff to analyze. But it seems unnecessarily premature?
I want to highlight this sequence of events, because either Axel is town or he's the ballsiest, riskiest, craziest scum I've ever seen.
2268: Grape claims delayer + coroner.
2272 Wisp says being the delayer looks bad for Grape.
2273 Vaimes asks questions about Grape's choices.
2274 Proph posts the vote count with this wagon (7 to lunch): shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Megiddo, osieorb18, vezokpiraka, Cantripmancer
2275 KCC says coroner seems provable and useless for scum.
2276 I /barn KCC and unvote.
2277 Grape answers some questions.
2278 Chris votes Grape (probably +town, especially since he appeared to think he was hammering, but could also come from scum trying to quash spew/discussion)
2279 Proph posts the "final" votecount with me still on it.
2284 Proph posts the corrected votecount with Chris on, me off.
2285 Axel asks for 30 minutes to look at things.
2287 Wisp says Grape's choice to target Beeboy makes sense, but that the coroner part is NAI.
2290 Tom says he's still good with lunching Grape.
2291 Wisp points out that Megiddo is never wolf with Grape.
2292 Axel highlights all the discrepancies in Grape's choices. Lots of detail, no punches pulled, ends the post with great skepticism toward Grape, but no vote.
2293 Axel highlights Grape->Beeboy mentions, puts another nail in Grape's coffin. Still no vote.
2294 Axel says he has to leave and asks Grape a clarification question on the coroner ability.
It's the lack of vote here that points to town!Axel, imo. He wades in and dismantles Grape piece by piece. By the time I finished reading Axel's posts, there was very little doubt in my mind that Grape was scum. Scum!Axel could bus a buddy this thoroughly, I think, but in no worlds does he NOT vote, both for the hammer cred after a natural-feeling attack, and to stop the Day's discussion.
Just a few posts later Osie unvotes, asking if coroner is confirmable. Shortly after this, Osie spearheads the counterwagon on Tom with a post that includes "I want to lynch Tom toDay, and I don't think that I'm the only one here who does." Grape joins the Tom wagon, and there's a page of Chris being indignant and Osie stumping for Tom's demise. Chris moves from Grape to KJ, KCC moves to Tom, Vaimes moves to Tom. 2369 Vez says (paraphrased) "lunch Grape because I'm right". 2370 Axel comes back with questions for Grape, Osie, and Chris (all concerning Grape's claim). Osie posts a votecount showing that Grape and Tom are both at 4 votes. Again, scum!Axel could very easily have held off on the vote (there were still outstanding questions to Grape), or even found a reason to vote Tom, but he votes Grape. A few posts later I vote Grape, then a few more Wisp hammers.
Nope. Never will you ever convince me that Axel is scum this game. No way. No how.
I am also less convinced that Osie being Az's counterwagon is as town-indicative as I've been thinking.
Ok, so no one's claiming to have redirected me. I really expected Osie to claim as much (and that the fourth unmentioned-at-the-time ability was a redirect/bus drive, not a doctor), but, of course, that wouldn't be logical since he was pushing for Tom's lunch yesterDay, so why would he redirect a vig shot away from Tom (unless, of course, Osie's scum)?
So scum *do* still have an interference role. :/ To the extent that I want to find that role, I would like a mass claim, but we're at 10-2 with 7 unclaimed (if you count me, and you should count me). In a role madness game, that's a hefty chunk that scum still don't know about (at least 5 town roles, probably), so I don't know that it's a good plan quite yet?
Chris, can you go into detail as to why you feel this way?
I have (probably bad) reasons to think KJ's town, but I'm out of time for the moment. More when I can.
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Yes. So in my head, not as a player in this game but as someone who constructs games, it seems really weird to me to have a scum day vig and a town night vig because of the dynamics of vigs. Vigs are fairly often in a situation of "resolves itself" because if a vig fake claims the real vig will blow its brains out. So for scum day vig to do its job to either kill a buddy (but maybe still get shot by night vig who thinks it is a bus) or to kill town (and night vig shooting it for killing town + counter claiming killing power) doesn't seem like rewarding game design for scum. It's almost a trap for scum to ever claim the day vig with the meta as it is.
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Also, in my last post I said we were at 10-2. We're at 9-2. But still, I believe, 7 unclaimed, so...nah, I don't think a mass claim is a good idea yet.
Vaimes, what was the second question below intended to accomplish?
Also, no offense, but last sounding pure to you moves literally zero needles for me.
@Axel: WRT massclaim, it may be premature, but just watching How claims go in recent games, townies gush all their info out and then it peters off until it’s all out and scum have a lot of wiggle room, or never even get asked to claim (looking at Vaimes in GoT). Putting myself as scum in this position, if we order the massclaim correctly, they are boxed in and already down 2 people.
I’m not a day 1 proponent, but a circumstantial proponent, and the circumstances are pretty town favoring imo.
WRT Osie: yeah, he is still more likely scum than a great many people, I just don’t think he’s the best target today with our current info.
Here, GF mentions Meg and claims and protection.
-The next two posts are Osie, with several more posts from him shortly after discussing posts in this area.
I guess he conveniently missed this exact post as well?
shadow, my reads are uh. Something. They've changed a bit with this whole "someone redirected Cantrip away from tom" nonsense, and osie's actions.
I think Cantrip is really town. Axel is pretty town. I'm ~still thinking Sir Chris is town. LW is kind of a tossup for me, I don't strongly think he's scum but I'm a bit uneasy there. Same for you, though your involvement on both scum lunches quenches that bloodlust a bit.
I will never know how to feel about KCC. Seems town, but don't like the "Az and Grape are never ever buddies" thing, or how she treated Az Day 1. There's some stuff that makes her more likely town unless she's powerwolfing with one of my townreads, which is a very unlikely scenario, sooo. vOv
KJ still seems like lunchbait, but I also agree that effort means next to nothing. It's a cheap easy way to look towny.
If I'm understanding this correctly, someone (probably scum) made it so that Cantrip targeted someone who is NOT tom. Which...looks bad for tom, no? I don't understand why someone would wine that sort of thing if tom's town, since...they could've just let Cantrip vig him.
So who's the best target with our current info? Last?
vez
Tom
Cantrip
Sir Chris
Osie
Unclaimed:
shadow
Axelrod
Vaimes
KCC
Last
KJ
I would bet pretty heavily on 1-2 being unclaimed and 0-1 being claimed at this point. I don’t see much of a scenario where both scum are already claimed. I think we stand to quash scum entirely with massclaim. Specifically, there is a good chance that there is a scum redirector that will have to fakeclaim, and our strong roles (KP, Doc) are already in the open.
We should specifically order it though (people who have already claimed are on here solely to verify they have nothing else):
Last
KJ
Osie
Sir Chris
Tom
Cantrip
KCC
Vaimes
Axel
{shadow} (I’m willing to go marginally sooner)
@Cantrip
1. I asked because I couldn't remember if you were still sticking to the I'm a vig claim, or just a flavor cop, so yes given the first it makes sense you would target Tom
2. Idk why you are highlighting the non-voting aspect of his posts as the most genuine, but ya I dont think I can ever be convinced to vote Axel anymore
like Osie's claim is bad, like Silvercry's Hill House Mafia Dejavu bad, does it make him a wolf? no? can he still be a wolf? yes? I still wanna believe that how he handled Grape yesterday almost never comes from a wolf/wolf. though reads like this have failed me for much of all the game so far, so definitely not ready to take that to the bank
could very well be that wolf!osie, just forgot who claimed what
I am all for a mass claim, but if a wolf!redirector exists, they are never going to come out
more later, I am hoping the blunt of my cold subsides later in the day
that makes no sense, stop making stuff up, in the world where I was a wolf, I would still play my heart out regardless of anything
it just happened that between work and my cold yesterday, it was just hard to concentrate on the game
also the only world where wolf me hammers wolf!Grape, is one where Tom is also a wolf
especially considering the speed of Tom's wagon growth
Otherwise I’m gonna assume scum tried to save tom, because he’s scum.
But I’m open to being surprised.
All other people seem solidly town. Last's hammer really makes me think he is town. I think tom is town due to overall play. Shadow can still be scum, but I'm not really seeing it. KCC too, but again they seemed incredibly town up until now.
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He was on the Grape wagon.
I was busy IRL outside of that so I put a placeholder and then left it as it was based on the information I thought I had.
Honestly, choosing two people who I thought were clearly enough town to be likely nightkill targets seemed reasonable. But clearly according to everyone here I'm a "sloppy", "atrocious", regularly bad town player. Not sure why I am even in the game. I figured I'd come back and do Proph a favour by offering to replace in, but I guess I'm so garbage at this game that I should quit playing mafia forever instead. And people had implied earlier that the toxicity on this site was likely on the up-and-up. That was a load of crap.
Might as well. I mean, apparently I'm SO bad as town that I might as well be a member of the scum team.
As a 1-shot night action, I choose two abilities out of (Doctor, Watcher, Roleblocker, Temp-Day-Neighbourizer). Each ability targets a player.
The roleblocker is a standard roleblocker for that night.
The watcher is a standard watcher for that night.
The doctor is a standard doctor for that night.
The neighbourizer ability provides a private chat with the target for the duration of the following day phase.
Where do people want me to vote, since I guess any vote I make of my own accord will be garbage play?
That remark from Vez was more personal, sure, but what I'm saying isn't.
I’m just wondering, did you ever ask the thread what claims were on the board? Or did you not see any of the delayer discussion? Or the claims when tom was picking a daykill target?
After the fact, I see that it was bad play. But I really didn't have much way to avoid that, and coming in assuming that my understanding of the gamestate is entirely wrong is not exactly a great game for me to play.
The last time I asked for any help on this site catching up after replacement, I was rebuffed and scumread for it. I assumed, given that, that asking for help catching up was taboo.
Were there other claims that I missed besides the protective claim from Megiddo/Beeboy?
Yeah, my impression on both was that:
Vez was on the wagon, so therefore he was active that Night.
I had no idea on the claimed doctor; thought the slot had done little and said little.
%%%
%%%
But you're right, I did overreact to this thread in general. That's not a good way to go about things, and I'm sorry about that.
Assuming that you're spot on, which could be the case, then KJ and Sir Chris are the remaining lynches.
Because you haven't been cop-checked yet? Actually, in general, most of the townreading I did of you was based on early game, in particular your response to Vezok's claim. Mid-to-late-game is more neutral.
I'd agree with a Killjoy lynch in general, I guess. It does still feel too easy.
I said you should not count me in the "claimed" category, and I meant it. My claim is so complex it'll make your head spin.
IF we massclaim, which...I could see potentially being wrecking for scum, but not necessarily so, I'd feel much more comfortable with something like:
Osie
Tom
Sir Chris
KCC
Last
KJ
Shadow
Vez
Vaimes
Axel
You could slot me potentially anywhere, but I think my fullclaim has a good chance to trip up scum, so I'd prefer being nearer the bottom of the list than the top. Certainly after Last and KJ.
The only alternative hypothesis I can think of here would be if they were trying to get me to vig someone else, since Tom is (claimed) now vanilla.
Osie, Do you agree with Fuwa slow-rolling the doctor portion of your claim? Why/not?
@Cantrip: I have zero desire to let Last claim that late. And I forgot Vez. He can claim pretty late.
Behaviorially you make sense as 'both town'
Shadow - tbh I don't mind that it moves no needles for you, I am kind of demoralized at my own bad play at this point. Don't like being fooled!
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Also, you can say you should count as unclaimed, but you’re KP, so you’ve claimed enough for a baseline.
@vaimes
that was more so an exaggeration
Like, I'm prepared to hear there are reasons for it beyond the obvious, I just haven't heard that yet.
plus PoE wise I can't imagine at least one scum not being in chris/KJ/Osie
honestly im starting to think Grape just accidentally slipped and did what scum do, just splurge out all their role information
cause I can imagine a completely different lynch if not for the fact that Grape claimed delayer alongside coroner
I wonder if the coroner ability was just added as a fake claim? wouldn't be the easiest thing to fake claim in this game that with all the flavor based around our roles, but I guess the wolves could just claim VT