I am definitely interested in solving shadow’s/KCC’s questionable vote positions.
If Shadow (and another) are town, then they might get something out of the thought that KCC's posting reminded me in part of my last scum game on this site.
Shadow is always suspicious, in particular when he hasn't been cop-checked.
I am definitely interested in solving shadow’s/KCC’s questionable vote positions.
I’d be very surprised if Axel is scum. The whole “surely tom is vanilla now because he used his only ability” thing worried me a bit, but that’s about it.
h
Or how about instead of focusing on dumb crazy world shenenigans we actually lynch scum kj and be done with it?
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Yeah, but a Dsykill is kinda on another level, especially in the hands of scum. Osie could be heavily lying about the role or have more, but the watch is probably real at minimum.
We could lynch Osie, and have KJ target Cantrip and Cantrip Target Tom. Thinking...
I mean, what's to stop cantrip from being killed tonight if Killjoy does, in fact, asceticize (is this even a word) him? its just going to lead to wifom
Cantrip Dying wouldn't affect anything.
@killjoy: The doc is dead anyway, protect Cantrip, no excuses
I would like Chris to say who he tracked pretty much before anything else.
I don't even know what to think about Vaimes being a Vig. Is "Slow" just, delayed for a day?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I targeted kcc last night :/. She targeted herself and tom. Not that this gives much info
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
We really need a fullclaim from you cantrip. I assume you didn't kill either KCC or Vaimes which is pretty bonkers. 3 vig is way too much for this setup.
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I tried a quick search and did not see a definition for what exactly "Slow" is.
I'm somewhat concerned that - if it means "kill delayed" for some amount of time - that Vaimes could have shot KCC? Looking at his first post of D2 (which is where I would "hint" if I had a delayed kill I had used on someone, the only thing he says is that he wants to "explore scum!KCC worlds" and that he didn't want (his theory) to get written off and forgotten about. But no one suspiciously died on N2, meaning that maybe he didn't fire it off at all? Or it's delayed for 2 days? (I don't think a 2 day delay would work well in game function though).
He didn't signal anything that suggests targeting someone on D3 either that I see, though he kept floating his KCC could be a deep wolf theory. He was obviously gunning for Tom during the day, suggesting that he hadn't already shot at him in the night.
@Cantrip: I don't suppose you have any insight into this? Should probably wait for Tom to say something first.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ok, so I guess it's come-clean story time. Hold onto yer butts, cause this may get a little bumpy. I'm going to start with the facts (and a little observation) because I don't have a ton of time right now.
• At the end of N1, Vaimes and I gained access to a neighbor chat that I'm assuming KCC created (as per her wink to Vaimes in 1313).
• Vaimes and I spent all of D2 feeling each other out, and Vaimes confided that he was a restricted night vigilante, eventually deciding I was town enough to full-claim his role. A "slow" vig meant that he had to target a player twice to vig them. N1 he targeted Wisp (because Tom hadn't claimed vig yet), N2 he targeted KCC (because he thought we could get Tom lunched rather than using a vig shot on him), and last night he planned to double-tap KCC (and I'm assuming he succeeded) to get her out of the PoE. I agreed with his KCC choices (sorry, KCC) given the things he highlighted as concerning.
• Vaimes thought Tom was scum because he didn't think Town could have two vigs. This is what prompted his "red check" posts against Tom. I agreed with him and I suggested that I claim his role to put pressure on Tom without highlighting that Vaimes was a vig, hoping to draw the kill to me and give him time to shoot.
• I claimed, thread decided two town vigs wasn't impossible, I backed off (in part because I didn't know for sure that Vaimes was as claimed). We kept it up D3 because I still hoped to draw the NK (apparently in vain).
I'm Humans, Town Three-Shot Roleblocker/Namecop. I target a player and name a modern deck; if I name that player's deck name, I roleblock them. I know if I'm successful because if I'm not, I am told that I guessed wrong and that my ability failed.
That was the "other" reason I was suspicious of Az: one of his JoaT shots was very similar to my role. I wasn't 100% sure, though, because in a role madness game, that's the kind of thing I could see duplicated. I also made mention of something similar to KCC about why I wasn't as concerned about my and her overlap with Fuwa/Osie's claim.
Anyway, N1 I didn't have any deck names except for Fuwa's, and I didn't want to roleblock Az's counterwagon if Fuwa was telling the truth, so I didn't use my ability N1. N2 I targeted Tom because I figured if he was town, he was likely telling the truth and I could confirm his deck name without blocking anything. I was totally flabbergasted when I was told my ability failed because I didn't name his deck correctly. Then I was crestfallen to think that it was because I got redirected.
All of this would probably have a little more weight to it if Vaimes were here to attest to our chat (246 posts! Something to read for giggles post-game!), but I stand by my choices. I feel bad that I was still so paranoid about Vaimes (actually about a Vaimes/KCC team specifically) that I still didn't fully trust him last Night (sorry, Vaimes).
I targeted Tom again last Night and got the same results. I feel pretty good in saying that it's highly likely that he's scum. If not, then KJ has to be lying about aceticizing me and is likely scum? Barring a bus drive ability that targets Tom and someone else?
I still feel strongly that Tom's reaction to my D3 announcement that he's not Infect was super tame compared to GoT.
Vote Tom
I've probably left something important out, but I think that's the bulk of it. I know there will be questions; I'll field them hopefully tonight.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Yeah, I don’t think I can argue the mechanical likelihood of scum Tom, he should be the lynch today, either he’s scum or we have to deal with a KJ/Cantrip world (one, not both).
I’m rather annoyed that KCC was killed over last, KCC was pretty obv town.
Well, I guess I want Tom to speak, and then I'll say what I know.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
He told me he had neighborized two other people on N1 at which point is was pretty clear who they were, you can see how he's talking to Cantrip. The plan for tonight was to Neighborize with Tom, and this to try and head off the corner case scenario that it was someone pulling bus driver shenanigans with Cantrip that stopped Cantrip's role yesterday. We thought Tom might end up dead this morning if Cantrip vigged him, but if Tom was alive, and KCC ended up connected to someone else, it would seem to prove the existence of a bus driver. If Killjoy was doing what he was supposedly doing, then Cantrip couldn't be "redirected".
So, Chris is accurate when he says KCC targeted himself and Tom.
I don't know how Proph would do it, but if it were me, I would totally tell the person KCC linked up with that he was neighborized, even in the situation where KCC ends up dead the same might.
And if Killjoy isn't lying, then Cantrip couldn't be messed with, so Tom is not Infect. Unless it's actually Cantrip pulling some kind of ridiculous and convoluted gambit which I am not seeing atm.
I suppose Killjoy could be lying about the Ascetic thing, and Cantrip actually was re-directed again. But that's a lot of effort to save Tom from being vigged so he could be lynched instead.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I am somewhat put out that Vaimes killed KCC and Cantrip was apparently fine with that. That was just not a good choice. Even if you harbored lingering suspicions of KCC (and I can/could envision those scenarios, they were just way down there in terms of likelyhood).
Also, I am sorry I was so checked out for half the day yesterday. I ought to be better from here on out.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
It is very hard to imagine a scenario in which Tom is not the lynch Today barring Vez announcing that he actually has a guilty check on someone else.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Cantrip has information that Tom is not Infect. Tom says he is Infect.
Cantrip got more info last night confirming N1. However, Cantrip could not be ****ed with last night because of me. So unless there's a busdriver and they targetted tom two nights in a row, it's 100% that tom is lying. Bus driver isn't impossible, but I feel like assuming someone busdrove tom twice requires more assumptions than assuming that tom is just lying.
@Shadow: You were hard townreading tom before today, right?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm so pissed at Vaimes. Why the **** would you shoot KCC, the most townread person after me. Baaah.
Ok, so I'm coming around to tom being scum, but I can't shake the feeling that what Cantrip did all game was terribly convenient.
I used a protect on axelrod last night and it resolved. Seems like I should have used it on KCC, but figured nobody would shoot there. AAAAAAA.
Where I'm at is that mechanically speaking tom is most likely scum, but the way Cantrip CC-ed and allowed Vaimes to shoot KCC still make me think he's scum. But yeah, there's too many things stacked against tom.
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I am somewhat put out that Vaimes killed KCC and Cantrip was apparently fine with that. That was just not a good choice. Even if you harbored lingering suspicions of KCC (and I can/could envision those scenarios, they were just way down there in terms of likelyhood).
Believe me, I was conflicted, but I had so many tinfoils of Vaimes and KCC being a scum team and snowing me completely (in which case Vaimes wouldn't have shot KCC), or Vaimes being scum and planning to vig KCC and have his buddy NK me last Night so that no one had any record of our discussion...
Suspect me if you must; I'm not sorry to have been on board with narrowing the PoE the way Vaimes did.
Quote from Axel »
Also, I am sorry I was so checked out for half the day yesterday.
You have nothing to apologize for. You're already my top pick for town MVP from all the work you put in D2 (unless you're scum, in which you're scum MVP by a mile).
Cantrip has information that Tom is not Infect. Tom says he is Infect.
Cantrip got more info last night confirming N1. However, Cantrip could not be ****ed with last night because of me. So unless there's a busdriver and they targetted tom two nights in a row, it's 100% that tom is lying. Bus driver isn't impossible, but I feel like assuming someone busdrove tom twice requires more assumptions than assuming that tom is just lying.
But Chris SAW KCC target Tom last Night. And we know from Axel that KCC planned to target herself and Tom. So either a busdrive happened AND Chris is lying about seeing KCC target Tom (because...?), or Tom just isn't Infect, and he's keeping the charade up because that's the only hope he has: to feign innocence until the end. After all, it worked yesterDay.
I'll go through the chat with Vaimes and highlight some of his thoughts (paraphrased), and I want Wisp to check in, but after that, I don't have anything on my list before we lunch Tom.
Hmm. Okay. So Cantrip didn’t get killed, yet Vaimes did. The only person who knew Vaimes was actually the vig is Cantrip. Ahhhh ugh. I’m not sure how Cantrip’s role fits as scum though.
@KJ: behaviorally i still like Tom for town. I just think he’s mechanically bogged in this crap.
Speaking on using an ability multiple times in hopes a player gets lynched, that happened in Hill House (unsuccessfully), so that doesn’t really sway me.
Yeah, I'm obviously playing the deep deep wolf game by bussing my buddies and defending townies with all the info of my role on the table because I'm crazy like that.
Vaimes died for no apparent reason, yet you knew he was a vig. Kcc didn't know this and is also town. You are somehow a roleblocker that got the same wrong result on tom twice. Like everything is just so terribly convenient to show that tom is scum and you are town.
I'm also afraid of lynching tom today, him flipping town and infect and going after cantrip tomorrow and him also flipping town although I think that's probably impossible.
I'm ready to lynch tom and work from there.
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I am most troubled by the quality of the fake claim if it's a fake claim. I mean, Infect is a deck I would expect to see. One-shot daykill is a quite flavorful ability for Infect. There's no way Tom just pulls that out of his rear, and hopes that no one else in the game is actually Infect. So it would seemingly have to be a safe claim provided by the Mod.
It's somewhat easier to accept because we know Az also lied about his deck. Thusfar, Cantrip's is the only claim we have that cares what deck someone is, yes?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Axel: not to specifically shade Cantrip or Tom, but both are definitely more than capable of formulating a fake claim that is believable and elaborate.
I am less than confident in a Tom lynch, but I don’t see a way to get past this gamestate without one.
I’m interested in anything Tom has to say before we proceed, but otherwise I don’t think I have anything else for today.
(A small part of me thinks that cantrip’s knowledge about flavor being relevant to abilities points to him being on a team with Az, or someone else with an ability that also cares being scum.)
@Axel: not to specifically shade Cantrip or Tom, but both are definitely more than capable of formulating a fake claim that is believable and elaborate.
But you don't just claim "Infect" in the dark. Unforced. What if Infect is already a player in the game?
I am open to hearing your speculations on what it means if Tom is not Mafia and how exactly that would work.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Axel: not to specifically shade Cantrip or Tom, but both are definitely more than capable of formulating a fake claim that is believable and elaborate.
But you don't just claim "Infect" in the dark. Unforced. What if Infect is already a player in the game?
I am open to hearing your speculations on what it means if Tom is not Mafia and how exactly that would work.
Agreed, that is likely a real or safe claim.
If Tom isn’t scum, I kinda think Cantrip is, but something screwy happened regardless.
Tinfoil out there theory is that Cantrip and Tom are buddies, but that’s a low odds world.
Before I used my doc ability I asked the mod what would happen if I targeted the same person as the ascetic and the mod was pretty clear that it got blocked.
Kj can't be blocked or redirected so he certainly saved cantrip from those also.
So there are three posibilities.
1. Tom is scun that lied about his deck name for "reasons"
2. Cantrip is scum that fakeclaimed his role and is trying to get tom lynched to reach lylo.
3. KJ is scum, redirected cantrip and didn't target him.
@Cantrip: have you been informed that you are now ascetic?
There is 1 scum in these three people and we have one mislynch left.
Can we get some mass claim going to know what we are still dealing with?
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Before I used my doc ability I asked the mod what would happen if I targeted the same person as the ascetic and the mod was pretty clear that it got blocked.
Kj can't be blocked or redirected so he certainly saved cantrip from those also.
So there are three posibilities.
1. Tom is scun that lied about his deck name for "reasons"
2. Cantrip is scum that fakeclaimed his role and is trying to get tom lynched to reach lylo.
3. KJ is scum, redirected cantrip and didn't target him.
@Cantrip: have you been informed that you are now ascetic?
There is 1 scum in these three people and we have one mislynch left.
Can we get some mass claim going to know what we are still dealing with?
Didn't you say that your "random" abilities weren't actually good, and that was one of the things that made you suspect Az because the abilities he claimed were all better than yours?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Out of the five abilities doc is by far the best one. Another two are not awful, but not amazing and two of them are almost useless. Well one of them would have been great right now, but I didn't get it.
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Vez, you should go ahead and vote for Tom now, in the remote scenario he's still Town. I don't see the day lasting a whole lot longer, unless someone pipes up with something new and interesting to discuss.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Alright well maybe proph just didnt send the neighborhood cuz kcc died, otherwise either
Kcc tried to target a person i got busdrove with (but she told axel she was going for me. So unlikely)
Chris is lying about track
Kj is lying about targeting cantrip
Because if i wasnt busdrove, cantrip had to have been messed with.
So really thats minimum one scum in cantrip/kj/chris, with cantrip being extremely unlikely.
That doesnt actually help much lol
If Shadow (and another) are town, then they might get something out of the thought that KCC's posting reminded me in part of my last scum game on this site.
Shadow is always suspicious, in particular when he hasn't been cop-checked.
Or how about instead of focusing on dumb crazy world shenenigans we actually lynch scum kj and be done with it?
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Thats what i get for sheeping
Yeah, but a Dsykill is kinda on another level, especially in the hands of scum. Osie could be heavily lying about the role or have more, but the watch is probably real at minimum.
Cantrip Dying wouldn't affect anything.
@killjoy: The doc is dead anyway, protect Cantrip, no excuses
osieorb18 (6): Axelrod, KittyCupCake, shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Lastwhisper, vezokpiraka
tomsloger (3): Vaimes, Killjoy, Cantripmancer
Killjoy (2): Sir Chris, osieorb18
Abstain (0):
That is a lynch!
Stay tuned for lynch scene.
Day 3 Final Vote Count
osieorb18 (6): Axelrod, KittyCupCake, shadowlancerx, tomsloger, Lastwhisper, vezokpiraka
tomsloger (3): Vaimes, Killjoy, Cantripmancer
Killjoy (2): Sir Chris, osieorb18
Abstain (0):
osieorb18 has been lynched.
Night 3 will end on Sunday, September 15th. It will be when I get back from SCG Syracuse, so no timer.
Please send in Night actions as soon as possible and inform me if you have an optional Night action you do not wish to take.
Vaimes has been killed.
It is now Day 4.
With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.
Day 4 will end at 11:59PM EST, Friday, September 27th.
I don't even know what to think about Vaimes being a Vig. Is "Slow" just, delayed for a day?
Yeah, I want chris’s target and I want KJ to say what he did.
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Shadow: what's the point of that question?
The question I want to ask is Tom: what'd you talk about?
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I'm somewhat concerned that - if it means "kill delayed" for some amount of time - that Vaimes could have shot KCC? Looking at his first post of D2 (which is where I would "hint" if I had a delayed kill I had used on someone, the only thing he says is that he wants to "explore scum!KCC worlds" and that he didn't want (his theory) to get written off and forgotten about. But no one suspiciously died on N2, meaning that maybe he didn't fire it off at all? Or it's delayed for 2 days? (I don't think a 2 day delay would work well in game function though).
He didn't signal anything that suggests targeting someone on D3 either that I see, though he kept floating his KCC could be a deep wolf theory. He was obviously gunning for Tom during the day, suggesting that he hadn't already shot at him in the night.
@Cantrip: I don't suppose you have any insight into this? Should probably wait for Tom to say something first.
• At the end of N1, Vaimes and I gained access to a neighbor chat that I'm assuming KCC created (as per her wink to Vaimes in 1313).
• Vaimes and I spent all of D2 feeling each other out, and Vaimes confided that he was a restricted night vigilante, eventually deciding I was town enough to full-claim his role. A "slow" vig meant that he had to target a player twice to vig them. N1 he targeted Wisp (because Tom hadn't claimed vig yet), N2 he targeted KCC (because he thought we could get Tom lunched rather than using a vig shot on him), and last night he planned to double-tap KCC (and I'm assuming he succeeded) to get her out of the PoE. I agreed with his KCC choices (sorry, KCC) given the things he highlighted as concerning.
• Vaimes thought Tom was scum because he didn't think Town could have two vigs. This is what prompted his "red check" posts against Tom. I agreed with him and I suggested that I claim his role to put pressure on Tom without highlighting that Vaimes was a vig, hoping to draw the kill to me and give him time to shoot.
• I claimed, thread decided two town vigs wasn't impossible, I backed off (in part because I didn't know for sure that Vaimes was as claimed). We kept it up D3 because I still hoped to draw the NK (apparently in vain).
I'm Humans, Town Three-Shot Roleblocker/Namecop. I target a player and name a modern deck; if I name that player's deck name, I roleblock them. I know if I'm successful because if I'm not, I am told that I guessed wrong and that my ability failed.
That was the "other" reason I was suspicious of Az: one of his JoaT shots was very similar to my role. I wasn't 100% sure, though, because in a role madness game, that's the kind of thing I could see duplicated. I also made mention of something similar to KCC about why I wasn't as concerned about my and her overlap with Fuwa/Osie's claim.
Anyway, N1 I didn't have any deck names except for Fuwa's, and I didn't want to roleblock Az's counterwagon if Fuwa was telling the truth, so I didn't use my ability N1. N2 I targeted Tom because I figured if he was town, he was likely telling the truth and I could confirm his deck name without blocking anything. I was totally flabbergasted when I was told my ability failed because I didn't name his deck correctly. Then I was crestfallen to think that it was because I got redirected.
All of this would probably have a little more weight to it if Vaimes were here to attest to our chat (246 posts! Something to read for giggles post-game!), but I stand by my choices. I feel bad that I was still so paranoid about Vaimes (actually about a Vaimes/KCC team specifically) that I still didn't fully trust him last Night (sorry, Vaimes).
I targeted Tom again last Night and got the same results. I feel pretty good in saying that it's highly likely that he's scum. If not, then KJ has to be lying about aceticizing me and is likely scum? Barring a bus drive ability that targets Tom and someone else?
I still feel strongly that Tom's reaction to my D3 announcement that he's not Infect was super tame compared to GoT.
Vote Tom
I've probably left something important out, but I think that's the bulk of it. I know there will be questions; I'll field them hopefully tonight.
I’m rather annoyed that KCC was killed over last, KCC was pretty obv town.
@Tom: if you somehow are town, either KJ or Cantrip is scum, and you should make the case/give us your last will and testament.
Ascetic is such a dumb role.
And hi
Still infect. Still town.
No PM from proph about neighborhood, will ask
Working a festival be back later
He told me he had neighborized two other people on N1 at which point is was pretty clear who they were, you can see how he's talking to Cantrip. The plan for tonight was to Neighborize with Tom, and this to try and head off the corner case scenario that it was someone pulling bus driver shenanigans with Cantrip that stopped Cantrip's role yesterday. We thought Tom might end up dead this morning if Cantrip vigged him, but if Tom was alive, and KCC ended up connected to someone else, it would seem to prove the existence of a bus driver. If Killjoy was doing what he was supposedly doing, then Cantrip couldn't be "redirected".
So, Chris is accurate when he says KCC targeted himself and Tom.
I don't know how Proph would do it, but if it were me, I would totally tell the person KCC linked up with that he was neighborized, even in the situation where KCC ends up dead the same might.
And if Killjoy isn't lying, then Cantrip couldn't be messed with, so Tom is not Infect. Unless it's actually Cantrip pulling some kind of ridiculous and convoluted gambit which I am not seeing atm.
I suppose Killjoy could be lying about the Ascetic thing, and Cantrip actually was re-directed again. But that's a lot of effort to save Tom from being vigged so he could be lynched instead.
Also, I am sorry I was so checked out for half the day yesterday. I ought to be better from here on out.
Cantrip has information that Tom is not Infect. Tom says he is Infect.
Cantrip got more info last night confirming N1. However, Cantrip could not be ****ed with last night because of me. So unless there's a busdriver and they targetted tom two nights in a row, it's 100% that tom is lying. Bus driver isn't impossible, but I feel like assuming someone busdrove tom twice requires more assumptions than assuming that tom is just lying.
@Shadow: You were hard townreading tom before today, right?
Ok, so I'm coming around to tom being scum, but I can't shake the feeling that what Cantrip did all game was terribly convenient.
I used a protect on axelrod last night and it resolved. Seems like I should have used it on KCC, but figured nobody would shoot there. AAAAAAA.
Where I'm at is that mechanically speaking tom is most likely scum, but the way Cantrip CC-ed and allowed Vaimes to shoot KCC still make me think he's scum. But yeah, there's too many things stacked against tom.
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Suspect me if you must; I'm not sorry to have been on board with narrowing the PoE the way Vaimes did.
You have nothing to apologize for. You're already my top pick for town MVP from all the work you put in D2 (unless you're scum, in which you're scum MVP by a mile).
But Chris SAW KCC target Tom last Night. And we know from Axel that KCC planned to target herself and Tom. So either a busdrive happened AND Chris is lying about seeing KCC target Tom (because...?), or Tom just isn't Infect, and he's keeping the charade up because that's the only hope he has: to feign innocence until the end. After all, it worked yesterDay.
I'll go through the chat with Vaimes and highlight some of his thoughts (paraphrased), and I want Wisp to check in, but after that, I don't have anything on my list before we lunch Tom.
What did I do all game, and how was it "terribly convenient"?
@KJ: behaviorally i still like Tom for town. I just think he’s mechanically bogged in this crap.
Speaking on using an ability multiple times in hopes a player gets lynched, that happened in Hill House (unsuccessfully), so that doesn’t really sway me.
Vaimes died for no apparent reason, yet you knew he was a vig. Kcc didn't know this and is also town. You are somehow a roleblocker that got the same wrong result on tom twice. Like everything is just so terribly convenient to show that tom is scum and you are town.
I'm also afraid of lynching tom today, him flipping town and infect and going after cantrip tomorrow and him also flipping town although I think that's probably impossible.
I'm ready to lynch tom and work from there.
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It's somewhat easier to accept because we know Az also lied about his deck. Thusfar, Cantrip's is the only claim we have that cares what deck someone is, yes?
I am less than confident in a Tom lynch, but I don’t see a way to get past this gamestate without one.
I’m interested in anything Tom has to say before we proceed, but otherwise I don’t think I have anything else for today.
(A small part of me thinks that cantrip’s knowledge about flavor being relevant to abilities points to him being on a team with Az, or someone else with an ability that also cares being scum.)
I am open to hearing your speculations on what it means if Tom is not Mafia and how exactly that would work.
Vote Count 4.1
tomsloger (2): Cantripmancer, Killjoy
Abstain (6): Axelrod, tomsloger, Sir Chris, shadowlancerx, vezokpiraka, Lastwhisper
With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.
Day 4 will end at 11:59PM EST, Friday, September 27th.
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If Tom isn’t scum, I kinda think Cantrip is, but something screwy happened regardless.
Tinfoil out there theory is that Cantrip and Tom are buddies, but that’s a low odds world.
Kj can't be blocked or redirected so he certainly saved cantrip from those also.
So there are three posibilities.
1. Tom is scun that lied about his deck name for "reasons"
2. Cantrip is scum that fakeclaimed his role and is trying to get tom lynched to reach lylo.
3. KJ is scum, redirected cantrip and didn't target him.
@Cantrip: have you been informed that you are now ascetic?
There is 1 scum in these three people and we have one mislynch left.
Can we get some mass claim going to know what we are still dealing with?
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Kcc tried to target a person i got busdrove with (but she told axel she was going for me. So unlikely)
Chris is lying about track
Kj is lying about targeting cantrip
Because if i wasnt busdrove, cantrip had to have been messed with.
So really thats minimum one scum in cantrip/kj/chris, with cantrip being extremely unlikely.
That doesnt actually help much lol