Megiddo, I remember thinking that it sounded like you were suggesting it as a possibility, but not necessarily endorsing it as your opinion, more of a "have you considered this" thing, but when I looked back just now you were pretty blunt about it. Not sure why I thought you were trying to manipulate me. I'm sure that I'm biased in thinking that Az was attacking Syrenz because that's why I started suspecting him. I said "joke's on him" if that was theatre, but I guess joke's on me if I towncleared Syrenz/Wisp for it.
And you mentioned that not claiming that you were delayed was a mistake, but not that you should have omitted the target.
And boo on me for not better assessing the non-likelihood of two town vigs.
i mean...
Are our roles together as strong as a straight up vig?
Seems like were in role madness here dont find splitting up a vig too unusual.
Scum could have a third killing role. Maybe one of az's if we're lucky
Did you see the worst case scenario math I posted? That's not modgaming; 1-shot dayvig (activated D2 no matter what) and multi-shot night vig absolutely can result in a D3 LYLO. In a 16-player game. That feels suboptimal (and I know Proph considers worst case scenarios for either team just based on his reviews of my games).
and finally, i'm seeing that you claimed?? but where? I can't find it. This might just be me being bad at using my eyes but I don't see it in your iso. can you point me in the right direction?
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Tom as a wolf can literally get away with just yoloing a shot like I don't see the reason of him going through all this analysis if he is a wolf...
I would've been mad if you were shot and did indeed flip town @meg
on the other hand, he got two claims out of the deal and killed a townie without a lot of discussion.
yeah that's fair that you'd be mad. I think it would be funny for exactly me.
and he could've gone for more if that was the case,
it is true. I also don't remember people really pushing back on him doing that, but he shot before he moved to a third person, so who knows what would have happened?
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Why give scum a day kill that would just get them shot at night by the vig.
Have there been games where dvum had a day vig that required them to post in topic and town had a night vig?
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That doesnt count. Game of thrones was a faction game. I mean a regular game of mafia.
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That doesnt count. Game of thrones was a faction game. I mean a regular game of mafia.
no, but now that you put it that way, a public day vig and a night vig means that if the day vig is a wolf, he always has to out him self to the other of they are not v/v but rather v/w
Tom has to be town I would think. I thought he was scum given it originally to balance for a scum lynch but most vigs just shoot that player. Especially if they hit town.
Seems like quite the horrible scum role. Too much thought was put into this game for that to happen I think.
I stand firmly behind my desire to lynch kj
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That doesnt count. Game of thrones was a faction game. I mean a regular game of mafia.
no, but now that you put it that way, a public day vig and a night vig means that if the day vig is a wolf, he always has to out him self to the other of they are not v/v but rather v/w
:Thinking:
He had a BP bg protecting him for what it is worth.
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Hi Osi can I interest you in a KJ or grapefruit lynch?
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Hi Osi can I interest you in a KJ or grapefruit lynch?
So far, Grapefruit is a no-go for me, but KJ is a maybe. I still have yet to really evaluate you, and all of my reads are tentative given that they are based on the first couple of pages.
If we both shoot wrong AND mislynch 3 times, we probably deserve to lose
Be that as it may, as a game designer, I've learned that counting on the worst case scenario never coming to pass means it definitely will.
Quote from Tom »
And the same math would apply if im scum, so...
But that's not what I was highlighting as the difference. The difference would be if you were scum and gained the shot from Az's death (or upon the first scum death). That restriction would change the math drastically.
First quote my bottom three other than Tom are you (Beeboy), Chris, and Wisp. By the time of the second one I had refreshed that Syrenz was why I caught Az (as per 1716), and removed Wisp from my scum reads. That left you and Chris as desirable vig targets.
Quote from Megs »
and finally, i'm seeing that you claimed?? but where? I can't find it. This might just be me being bad at using my eyes but I don't see it in your iso. can you point me in the right direction?
I haven't officially/fully claimed. 2005 is the first time I make significant reference to a claim.
Why give scum a day kill that would just get them shot at night by the vig.
Have there been games where dvum had a day vig that required them to post in topic and town had a night vig?
I thought this was the case in Powerful Wizards, but Seppel was a toughguy who was revealed as the killer the morning after he killed, so not the same at all. Not that I can recall, I guess. But how is that a pertinent point for what might or might not be happening in this game? As to your first question, as is evident, it's not a cut and dry case that Tom is scum just from mechanics (especially given the restrictions placed on other claimed roles). So it's obviously not a given that the dayvig gets vigged in this scenario.
I am frustrated that one of the primary wagonees is V/LA until (essentially) deadline.
I am voting for an extension so that KJ can come back and be contributing
Let's please make him prove himself either way, Cantripmancer's frustration is valid.
I town read tom behaviorally so I am pushing back mechanically in my thought process, Cantripmancer.
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If we're not lunching Tom, then Grape and Chris are where I'd like to push. He probably still needs to be sorted, but perhaps not toDay. And boo on me for not better assessing the non-likelihood of two town vigs.
@osie: what specifically makes Grape a no go? He has some pretty soft/buddy interactions with Az imo
Just so far. I liked the organicness of his pg 2 posts, particularly #97.
My hardest townreads (with partial ISO support) so far are on you, Cantrip, Vez (All three early game), and Wisp (recent game). Is there anyone in particular other than Grape who I should look at in catch-up? I dislike Vaimes for the early game.
That gives KJ 2-3 days to be reliable with content so he may be grilled.
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Yes, I have returned! Only for a little bit but I AM HERE!
So, may I ask why?
Yes, wanting an extension when the day is pretty much decided just so you can do very little + "I am not inexperienced scum, I am just busy" when....no one accused you of being scum?
back reading day 1 EoD stuff since i never fully read it, and this post is just atrocious, it just screams, "I am making up a reason to scum lean you"
Fuwa, haven't heard from you for a bit; Chris's wagon has faltered. Who else do you want to pressure? (Could it be....Azrael?)
Most likely shadow actually. I like Azrael's posts, but others made pretty convincing points against him too... so I'm just gonna observe how his train goes. I don't feel like joining it, nor am I against it.
on another note, this post is wolfy, it allows her to avoid any repercussion regardless of Azreal's flip
It would kind of surprise me if Wisp were scum here just from the angles of attack he chooses to employ against me, but I am not overly familiar with his scum game.
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It would kind of surprise me if Wisp were scum here just from the angles of attack he chooses to employ against me, but I am not overly familiar with his scum game.
no one here has seen my scum game
/shrug
also, plz not the "wolves wouldn't push me angle" again
if you are town, I think you dug your own grave, so I won't really regret your flip regardless
did you ever answer my question? I asked if killjoy was to flip town, what would town!chris push next? or if you did you can point me to the answer, since I did ask it while I was at work
P.S: also I really hope I don't see anymore reads based off who did and didn't ask for an extension, it's easily manipulated, and it just feels anglely overall
this wasnt you @chris, I am just stating my opinion
That's not what I said in regards to "wolves wouldn't attack me." I said your specific angle would surprise me from a wolf. Please don't take my nuanced thoughts through a blender. Also no, I did not dig my own grave, if you are town you saying that is why you are at the level you are at. It's your vote, own the ******* vote.
I did not. My scum lean on Grapefruit is not dependent on KJ's alignment although there is a stronger link if KJ is scum, so him.
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You go back at the end of day one. You look at my post with Fuwa and you go "man this is just such trash. Look at this scum just being horrible over here, looking for reasons to call Fuwa scum."
Then you quote a fuwa post and say "That's pretty wolfy by Fuwa."
Like... I think scum have largely just written off Fuwa as a lost cause as a mislynch. Dkings thought fuwa was a good shot and I didn't like it at the time but I think I have it backwards. I think it is paranoid town that keeps Fuwa on the table despite that being baffling to me, so it is a good look for you to mix that in with a very subjective read of my post being trash. Don't think there is enough guile (sorry if this triggers anyone) in that post to be malice towards me knowingly.
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I've been spirited away by my wife, so I'm reduced to mobile, at best, for the weekend. Top priorities to read upon my return are Tom and Rhand. KCC and Sir Chris haven't been read yet, and beeboy I need to take a hard second look.
So from my current read of the game, this means that he analyzed his three scum buddies. Interesting.
God, Grapefruit almost has to be scum for him defending Azrael day one with how Grape voted for me for not explaining my read on him more.. Here you have Azrael who snap town read him super fast for whatever reason and Grapefruit comes to his defense, but I don’t write out an essay on my read and he is all over me, which means he is trying to represent himself as a town player who cares deeply about what others think of him, but if this was true he’d have been much more suspicious of Azrael at some point. Which means Az was for sure power wolfing. It’s actually a really interesting read to make as wolf. If Grape dies first how does anyone think that is scum for doing it? I mean, me but I am weird. It’s such an unintuitive, sick play. If Az dies first, people just go ‘oh I guess Grapefruit is town.’ It’s such a sneaky good scum play.
In Grapefruit's case, he has a completely open, straightforward, thoughtful attitude in the post I called out. In shadow's posts regarding sir chris, it's combative, venomous, derisive. He's looking to score cheap rhetorical points damage Sir Chris's reputation, refuse to answer basic questions, deflect criticism against both others on his wagon, and also those attacking him. These are standard scum emotional tells and defensive tactics that you see again and again and again in scum behavioral patterns. I don't think it's too hard to see that for what it is, if you take a good hard look at it.
Like, I just want to call all of this lies and slander by Az and assume Shadow is town and Grape is scum from this.
He challenges Dkings on KJ logic, oh boy can we kill KJ yet?
He questioned my crazy Beeboy logic. Makes me feel better about Beeboy. My eyes are starting to hurt but I will go back by the weekend and read how he broke down everyone and see if I can’t see any good insights there.
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Also Vaimes just for you (and my boredom) I looked at KCC's iso for 3 pages and in no known universes is KCC ever scum with Az.
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And you mentioned that not claiming that you were delayed was a mistake, but not that you should have omitted the target.
Did you see the worst case scenario math I posted? That's not modgaming; 1-shot dayvig (activated D2 no matter what) and multi-shot night vig absolutely can result in a D3 LYLO. In a 16-player game. That feels suboptimal (and I know Proph considers worst case scenarios for either team just based on his reviews of my games).
And the same math would apply if im scum, so...
I'm catching up, but I want to make the claim clear:
Blue-White Control
JTMS, Path, Cryptic
Ability is flavoured after Cryptic. It's a 1-shot ability that targets two players with two different modes.
Four modes, one of which I will not claim for likely similar reasons to Fuwa.
The other three modes are Roleblocker, Temporary Day Neighbourizer, and Watcher.
Unvote
in case I'm voting anyone.
Humoring that there has to be at least one wolf on fuwa means that mostly likely candidate outside of Chris is exactly grape in my opinion
I get what Cantrip is saying but I'm still not voting Tom today, Cantrip can shoot him anyways in the case we are wrong
Also @osie hi
cool thanks, that makes sense. re: az v syrenz.
true. re: my claim.
my other question (your opinion on shooting me) is essentially "what changed between these two posts?"
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/812915-modern-mafia-day-2-blood-moon?comment=1343
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/812915-modern-mafia-day-2-blood-moon?comment=1764
and finally, i'm seeing that you claimed?? but where? I can't find it. This might just be me being bad at using my eyes but I don't see it in your iso. can you point me in the right direction?
I would've been mad if you were shot and did indeed flip town @meg
yeah that's fair that you'd be mad. I think it would be funny for exactly me.
Have there been games where dvum had a day vig that required them to post in topic and town had a night vig?
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:Thinking:
Seems like quite the horrible scum role. Too much thought was put into this game for that to happen I think.
I stand firmly behind my desire to lynch kj
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He had a BP bg protecting him for what it is worth.
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Fuwa had partial-claimed with some messiness, and I figured it's better to have a bit of a clearer claim than that.
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So far, Grapefruit is a no-go for me, but KJ is a maybe. I still have yet to really evaluate you, and all of my reads are tentative given that they are based on the first couple of pages.
Question, if killjoy was to flip town? Where would town!you push next?
But that's not what I was highlighting as the difference. The difference would be if you were scum and gained the shot from Az's death (or upon the first scum death). That restriction would change the math drastically.
First quote my bottom three other than Tom are you (Beeboy), Chris, and Wisp. By the time of the second one I had refreshed that Syrenz was why I caught Az (as per 1716), and removed Wisp from my scum reads. That left you and Chris as desirable vig targets.
I haven't officially/fully claimed. 2005 is the first time I make significant reference to a claim.
I thought this was the case in Powerful Wizards, but Seppel was a toughguy who was revealed as the killer the morning after he killed, so not the same at all. Not that I can recall, I guess. But how is that a pertinent point for what might or might not be happening in this game? As to your first question, as is evident, it's not a cut and dry case that Tom is scum just from mechanics (especially given the restrictions placed on other claimed roles). So it's obviously not a given that the dayvig gets vigged in this scenario.
I am frustrated that one of the primary wagonees is V/LA until (essentially) deadline.
Let's please make him prove himself either way, Cantripmancer's frustration is valid.
I town read tom behaviorally so I am pushing back mechanically in my thought process, Cantripmancer.
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@osie: what specifically makes Grape a no go? He has some pretty soft/buddy interactions with Az imo
I do support him being vigged.
Unvote Vote Chris
Just so far. I liked the organicness of his pg 2 posts, particularly #97.
My hardest townreads (with partial ISO support) so far are on you, Cantrip, Vez (All three early game), and Wisp (recent game). Is there anyone in particular other than Grape who I should look at in catch-up? I dislike Vaimes for the early game.
48 hour extension
That gives KJ 2-3 days to be reliable with content so he may be grilled.
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48 hour extension
vote grape
Chris (3): Grape, Last, kcc
tom (2): Cantrip, Vaimes
Kj (2): Chris, vezok
Grape (2): shadow, tom
Last (1): Grape
Abstain (5): Axel, Fuwa, Kj, Megs, osi
Osi = Fuwa.
Also
48 hour extension
48 hour extension
@osie: You gotta give us a bit more than "his first page sounds townie". Dead scum interaction paint him in a not so pretty light.
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on another note, this post is wolfy, it allows her to avoid any repercussion regardless of Azreal's flip
god if only I knew Fuwa's alignment, that would be great
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/shrug
also, plz not the "wolves wouldn't push me angle" again
if you are town, I think you dug your own grave, so I won't really regret your flip regardless
did you ever answer my question? I asked if killjoy was to flip town, what would town!chris push next? or if you did you can point me to the answer, since I did ask it while I was at work
P.S: also I really hope I don't see anymore reads based off who did and didn't ask for an extension, it's easily manipulated, and it just feels anglely overall
this wasnt you @chris, I am just stating my opinion
I did not. My scum lean on Grapefruit is not dependent on KJ's alignment although there is a stronger link if KJ is scum, so him.
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I was not trying to put your thoughts through a blender, that's the angle I thought u were going with again
what is this specific angle then?
meh
Then you quote a fuwa post and say "That's pretty wolfy by Fuwa."
Like... I think scum have largely just written off Fuwa as a lost cause as a mislynch. Dkings thought fuwa was a good shot and I didn't like it at the time but I think I have it backwards. I think it is paranoid town that keeps Fuwa on the table despite that being baffling to me, so it is a good look for you to mix that in with a very subjective read of my post being trash. Don't think there is enough guile (sorry if this triggers anyone) in that post to be malice towards me knowingly.
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So from my current read of the game, this means that he analyzed his three scum buddies. Interesting.
God, Grapefruit almost has to be scum for him defending Azrael day one with how Grape voted for me for not explaining my read on him more.. Here you have Azrael who snap town read him super fast for whatever reason and Grapefruit comes to his defense, but I don’t write out an essay on my read and he is all over me, which means he is trying to represent himself as a town player who cares deeply about what others think of him, but if this was true he’d have been much more suspicious of Azrael at some point. Which means Az was for sure power wolfing. It’s actually a really interesting read to make as wolf. If Grape dies first how does anyone think that is scum for doing it? I mean, me but I am weird. It’s such an unintuitive, sick play. If Az dies first, people just go ‘oh I guess Grapefruit is town.’ It’s such a sneaky good scum play.
Like, I just want to call all of this lies and slander by Az and assume Shadow is town and Grape is scum from this.
He challenges Dkings on KJ logic, oh boy can we kill KJ yet?
He questioned my crazy Beeboy logic. Makes me feel better about Beeboy. My eyes are starting to hurt but I will go back by the weekend and read how he broke down everyone and see if I can’t see any good insights there.
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