Do you have to activate the retaliation or is it auto-use?
Is it rolecop or roleblock or both?
I would add: What kind of "retaliation" is this? Does this ability remain in effect indefinitely until you are targeted? Oh, and what did you mean when you were high-fiving with Chris last night about giving incomplete or inaccurate information?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I would add: What kind of "retaliation" is this? Does this ability remain in effect indefinitely until you are targeted? Oh, and what did you mean when you were high-fiving with Chris last night about giving incomplete or inaccurate information?
It is both a roleblock and a role cop. Regarding #2, I think you guys have all the information necessary to actually evaluate the claim, and getting that much further into the details only provides the opportunity to either 1) engage in pointless and unproductive modgaming 2) provides the scum with exactly the info they need to kill me. So no, and I don't care for the fact that Rhand was interested in that level of detail on how to play around that ability, either.
Well, seems to me it's highly optimistic of you to be thinking that you are going to be around long enough for it to matter if the scum know how to "play around" it or not. Which moots the point of keeping it secret and incidentally prevents some people (me) from deciding whether or not they believe it, and/or whether it's town.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Full thread reread is bogging down - going to re-activate super specific spot reads to cover at least the major holes, and fill in more detail later.
Quote from beeboy »
Hypothetically if Az flips scum is being quickly ok with a claim from a player who I know will likely die and flip scum given people are already criticizing the claim at the time of my post really the easy and intuitive thing to do as scum?
Isn't Az being town a worse look for me?
There's a certain type of self-awareness here.
Quote from beeboy »
DK probably? My wagon wasn't pure and I fully intend to do something about it.
Fuwa and Az as far as people not voting me are concerned.
Hmm. Meh.
Quote from beeboy »
I am falling for the Az claim btw.
To some capacity it justifies people feeling he is underwelming given his role wants to live to late game
Would prefer is this were behaviorally based, but it's an imperfect world.
Quote from beeboy »
@Wisp If I wanted to play in an environment where I wasn't allowed to lynch players for arbitrary reasons I'd still be playing on mafiascum. I don't mean to disregard what you want but I don't feel like I am crossing any lines here.
Like I've said why I think Shadow is scum, I get he has a high post count but whenever I used to top post I never felt like I had a right to not be lynched for it.
I think Tom is lurking out his wagon and also have my reasons to think he is scum. :/
I am not just going to chain lynch all the high profile players for the memes to try and get a deep wolf and not adjust if I am wrong.
*cocks head sideways* Interesting first sentence, there.
Quote from beeboy »
I am starting to actually town read Chris here.
Initially i didn't like the WK of me because I got kind of scared it was an attempt to buddy me which scum will do when a player gets shoved into a corner, either they don't think the player will be lynched or they want to stay off the wagon. But at this point am convinced that Chris does believe that I am town here. And I do like how he is leveraging his other interactions and reads using his read on me rather then just hard defending me.
Hm. Nevermind.
Quote from beeboy »
Ok so I don't expect anyone to sheep me on this but honestly I am just tone reading Wisp right now and honestly if I had to bet the game on my current read I wouldn't. So if I die right now I don't want anyone to think I have some enlightened read on Wisp that is worth sheeping. He could be engaging with me more but that hurts my heart more then its alignment indicative.
But I am very confident in my ability to have a good macro read on Wisp, so it's more as long as I am alive I want to give him the freedom to play freely in order to get that read faster. Watching him get frustrated and pushed down will make it easier for him to hide and defend himself as scum while making him less transparent as scum.
So like I know this is a weird answer but I am pretty content calling him town and am happy with what I am doing. And if Wisp does start wolfing arbitrary macro read timers won't apply, but I do like his tone and I do have a plan so exaggerating my read is something I am fine doing.
Little odd to share exactly what his intentions are publicly in this way, like an instruction manual on what not to do.
Quote from beeboy »
vote: Tom
It's time for competing wagons.
I don't disagree - but can you explain that reasoning?
Cutting short here, but not willing to clear beeboy, more analysis on this slot necessary I think.
Well, seems to me it's highly optimistic of you to be thinking that you are going to be around long enough for it to matter if the scum know how to "play around" it or not. Which moots the point of keeping it secret and incidentally prevents some people (me) from deciding whether or not they believe it, and/or whether it's town.
Anyone ever excused me of not being cocky? And it's good play, regardless.
Well, seems to me it's highly optimistic of you to be thinking that you are going to be around long enough for it to matter if the scum know how to "play around" it or not. Which moots the point of keeping it secret and incidentally prevents some people (me) from deciding whether or not they believe it, and/or whether it's town.
Anyone ever excused me of not being cocky? And it's good play, regardless.
Disagree?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I know you're really asking me if I rolled scum again.
I am town, and I'd say I'm more relaxed than having fun.
Don't trust this, at all. Suspicious mind.
Quote from vaimes »
I've looked at KJ's posts and am uninterested in this wagon.
My pet scumteam is Cantrip/Ax/???/???.
Not going after KJ is good.
Pet scum team why me and cantrip?
Quote from vaimes »
Also I haven't been town in forever and my usual scumplay is to not care about a single thing being posted in the thread.
Go easy on me. dot dot dot
Hello, fellow medium-sized creatures!
Quote from vaimes »
Oh you're so scum.
[Directed at cantrip]
I don't get that at all from Cantrips post. Or towards cantrip, in general, really.
Quote from vaimes »
Deflective humor suggests a guilty mindset.
Considered applying that to your own posts this game? Like for real.
Quote from vaimes »
Okay. Hi, then.
I don't blame you for taking "Vaimes lurked and lost" away from that game, but I'm not that easy to read anymore. Do you have anything you want to ask me that might actually shed some light on my alignment for you/anyone?
The preoccupation with controlling how others read you is real.
Quote from vaimes »
tom is also scum.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
A little less talk, a little more action please. I know you want credit for attacking your buddy, but I'd really prefer if you want for the hard-town cred from actually trying to get him murdered, instead of aiming for cheap comment cred.
Quote from vaimes »
No but really, the way he’s sort of mindlessly pushing scumreads pings scum to me. I know tom isn’t afraid to get his hands dirty as scum, but it always always always feels forced, in a “I need results **** the process” kind of way.
Word vomit sorry.
You're right here.
Quote from vaimes »
Combination of him being somewhat low hanging fruit and people I don’t like pushing on him + wagon speed.
Safe to say that regardless of KJ’s alignment, there is most definitely mafia pushing there. I think it’s Cantrip and/or tom. I think if tom is scum, KJ looks better for it since tom isn’t afraid to openly defend sinking teammates.
But not shadow, per KJ's analysis? Vaimes/Tom/Shadow team? Gutsy for all three to poke at me, but...
Quote from vaimes »
Cantrip, that particular “deflecting” post really doesn’t matter. It’s not the cornerstone of why I think you’re scum. I just didn’t like it in the context of you responding to something of mine.
Yeah, you still haven't explained what the supposed cornerstone of that read is.
Quote from vaimes »
I’m like 98% sure tom is scum.
But I kinda want to test to see if he’s chainsaw defending Cantrip.
Outstanding questions later tonight.
If you're 98% sure, maybe try killing him.
Quote from vaimes »
My wrath.
Feels more like periodic unexplained mudslinging than wrath.
Quote from vaimes »
Ooh.
Unvote, vote tom
tom/Chris wagons are perfect.
Quote from vaimes »
I haven't actually read anything, skimmed and saw that Chris did something that involves inside info on beeboy or whatever. No read on him since he's been too busy to make a lot of noise, so I support the pressure.
Don't have a beeboy read, I'm straight sheeping LW until I feel like doing work.
...
Read those two posts in order. This is consistent how? It's perfect that Chris is being wagoned, but you haven't even read why he's being wagoned??
Quote from vaimes »
I don't understand the shadow scumreads or votes. He's been scum a lot recently, and I feel like there's a difference this time around that means he's town. More earnest solving and less doing things for show.
Plus I think if he were scum again he'd be more of a drag. dot dot dot
Continued shadow defense.
Quote from vaimes »
Unvote, vote Azrael
Quick question to people voting shadow: are you high, mafia, or both?
Disagree, therefore mafia. Solid reasoning, that.
Quote from vaimes »
Name one thing that makes Azrael a villager, without rereading.
Can't name a single thing that makes you townie, and I'm 3/4 through my reread on you. Found plenty that indicates otherwise.
Quote from vaimes »
He was weak and slanky last game.
He's happy and actually cares about the game.
He's town.
He's happy, therefore town??
Quote from vaimes »
I think the way he almost seems to be trying not to make waves and fly under the radar is scummy. I think as town he’d be more prolific.
Which is absolutely not a “wah Az isn’t active enough for my liking,” he just doesn’t have any presence as a town player here.
I guarantee you that I didn't invent a pair of (adorable) kids or IRL obligations solely to have an excuse to be less active in this game. Activity cases are some of the weakest, most non-alignment indicative cases you can possibly make. But sure, go for the D1 analyst lynch based on that alone.
Quote from vaimes »
Is there anything in Az’s wallpost about who he thinks is scum? Especially among those pushing him? Which slot does he want to run up and/or kill? He knows he’s a major wagon heading into deadline, right? Who cares about defending the Grape read at this point, it’s been a billion years.
You know, some people don't believe in deflection as defense. They believe in actually addressing the points against them, before they just try to throw someone else under the bus instead.
Quote from vaimes »
Betcha Az is gonna try and persuade y'all to let him wait til EoD for his ability to auto-trigger, instead of doing it while the sun's up. Otherwise I don't know why he bothered mentioning it, the overwhelmingly obvious course of action here as a villager under fire is to prove your ability as soon as you can. Especially if it's just gonna happen automatically after the lunch.
Anyone who thinks about this for half a second...
Quote from vaimes »
Azrael is painting his whole wagon as scummy and not calling out anyone in particular.
My vote will not be moving.
1) Failing to call out other people out mid-defense is hardly scummy.
2) You just plain missed where I called out multiple people in that wall, but rushed to make a negative, dismissive post against me anyways. Definitely fairly judging this wagon, definitely no agenda here.
vote Vaimes. You wanted me to counter-wagon, right?
Grapefruit
Dkingsland - numerous strong townie attitude posts.
Killjoy – strong tonally
Vez - genuine attempt to counter-claim, strong tone.
Cantripmancer – post 38: consistently focused on logic-based tells, unfair seeming attacks.
Sir chris – would have been super easy to let me die. Hopefully not pocketing me.
KCC
Rhand
beeboy – certain type of self-awareness, wants freedom to lynch arbitrarily, unvote based on role reasons. More analysis necessary, says time for competing wagons – why?
fuwa - self-deprecating frequently, fence sits on both sides of shadow and sir chris, no reasoning for sir chris vote. Inconsistent in characterizing her own attacks, seems to suggest her attacks subjective and might be valid only in her own eyes. Very light-hearted/carefree in tone, which is somewhat unusual for inexperienced scum .
Axelrod – weak push vs KJ, weak jump off. 189. Weirdly states suspicions heightened at same time he extricates.
Syrenz/LW - entertains two diametrically opposed ideas using strong language for each, wavers, then picks one. Not organic read.
Tom
Shadow – snipes reasonlessly at KJ, tries to pick on KJ for not counter-voting in his analysis post.
Vaimes – too preoccupied with protecting his own self-image, non-committed and poor explanations for votes on Cantrip and I, good explanation for vote on Tom (buddy?), but won’t follow through, too-easy clear on shadow (buddy?), multiple extremely poor voting reasons for me (activity, lack of counter-wagon, cheap points, not reading posts fully), not fairly evaluating.
I remember when you read me correctly despite the entire scumteam + Sir Chris (lol) tunneling on me in the Hearthstone invitational. Now you're completely flopping on my alignment, which honestly strikes me more as fake than rustiness.
Did I not explicitly state there's a difference between activity and presence?
I think it's a bit ridiculous to argue they aren't highly inter-related, especially as this played out. I was clearly noting scum-reads throughout, as well as town-reads. What I wasn't doing, was converting those into dreadnought-style wall posts, or doing massive thread rereads, and until I can make time to engage in that level of activity, no, there won't be much "presence."
Because that's 100% an MTGS scumtell, attacking me for attacking your activity when...I wasn't.
Oh wait you voted me. 24 hours before deadline. Are you sure?
Absolutely sure, but good point. Request Deadline Extension A. Day 1's the best time for that by far, and it'd be nice to have a real wagon instead of this dreck you and Shadow and tom have been spewing.
I remember when you read me correctly despite the entire scumteam + Sir Chris (lol) tunneling on me in the Hearthstone invitational. Now you're completely flopping on my alignment, which honestly strikes me more as fake than rustiness.
Choo choo.
"Honestly"
Not another emotionally manipulative post at all, here.
Not another emotionally manipulative post at all, here.
Let me try that again:
I remember when you read me correctly despite the entire scumteam + Sir Chris (lol) tunneling on me in the Hearthstone invitational. Now you're completely flopping on my alignment, which strikes me more as fake than rustiness.
I remember when you read me correctly despite the entire scumteam + Sir Chris (lol) tunneling on me in the Hearthstone invitational. Now you're completely flopping on my alignment, which strikes me more as fake than rustiness.
Choo choo.
Always happy to help you edit out your scum tells ex post facto, Vaimes.
@Shadow: There are better d1 lynches I think. Az, when town, is a force to be reckoned with. If he's scum, that'll show itself eventually.
Perhaps Last would be a good idea? I haven't seen townLast yet and he's been here long enough for that to have manifested already. I've always been able to spot town!last just from his playing the game normally.
Actually, in order I'd like to lynch Shadow, Last, either Axel or Cantrip depending on who the more likely scum /barner is, And then perhaps one of KCC or Grape as I'm kinda null on them in a way I don't really like.
Az: I'd like an opinion. Rhand/Cantrip/Axel. Of the three that /barned dk's reasoning on me, I assume you think Axel is the most likely scum out of the three?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Wait, how does this deadline extension thing work? Do we vote?
Because I strongly request not wasting it now.
Although I now understand Az's game plan with this review.
Usually I think there's a message to the mod saying "I'd like extension blah" and then he announces it and we vote in the thread? An extension wouldn't be terrible here imo
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Az: I'd like an opinion. Rhand/Cantrip/Axel. Of the three that /barned dk's reasoning on me, I assume you think Axel is the most likely scum out of the three?
Not Cantrip. Axel's tough to read but is flashing some mildly concerning plays, and my reread hasn't reached Rhand yet. On my initial run-through, I greatly disliked how much he was pushing this meta-based argument that he really ought to have known better than to push, but until I read him I don't know whether to just be disappointed or suspicious.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Grapefruit
Dkingsland - numerous strong townie attitude posts.
Killjoy – strong tonally
Vez - genuine attempt to counter-claim, strong tone.
Cantripmancer – post 38: consistently focused on logic-based tells, unfair seeming attacks.
Sir chris – would have been super easy to let me die. Hopefully not pocketing me.
KCC
Rhand
beeboy – certain type of self-awareness, wants freedom to lynch arbitrarily, unvote based on role reasons. More analysis necessary, says time for competing wagons – why?
fuwa - self-deprecating frequently, fence sits on both sides of shadow and sir chris, no reasoning for sir chris vote. Inconsistent in characterizing her own attacks, seems to suggest her attacks subjective and might be valid only in her own eyes. Very light-hearted/carefree in tone, which is somewhat unusual for inexperienced scum .
Axelrod – weak push vs KJ, weak jump off. 189. Weirdly states suspicions heightened at same time he extricates.
Syrenz/LW - entertains two diametrically opposed ideas using strong language for each, wavers, then picks one. Not organic read.
Tom
Shadow – snipes reasonlessly at KJ, tries to pick on KJ for not counter-voting in his analysis post.
Vaimes – too preoccupied with protecting his own self-image, non-committed and poor explanations for votes on Cantrip and I, good explanation for vote on Tom (buddy?), but won’t follow through, too-easy clear on shadow (buddy?), multiple extremely poor voting reasons for me (activity, lack of counter-wagon, cheap points, not reading posts fully), not fairly evaluating.
Because deadline extensions without extenuating circumstances encourage rush play and bad habits. This shouldn’t really be a public, in game conversation though.
Can someone/a few people sanity check me; I feel like Last has been scummier than his baseline, and has lacked his typical town qualities I’m used to. Would love some commentary on him.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
And then come D4, when we're actually pushed up against the deadline, and something unexpected happens, and we actually need the extra time, and we don't have it, because we wasted it here, for no reason?
The only reason we didn't lynch 48 hours ago is because it wasn't the deadline yet, and now that it is the deadline, extend it?
-No.
Can someone/a few people sanity check me; I feel like Last has been scummier than his baseline, and has lacked his typical town qualities I’m used to. Would love some commentary on him.
I don't have any meta to work with, but I liked his catchup analysis, and haven't seen anything I dislike.
I understand the desire for the day to just be over, really I do - but this is exactly the time to get an extension. Even though it is taking FOR-EV-VER, Az is going through the whole playerbase and giving his takes. Even if you were positive he was scum (which I'm not), that's still a good thing. In my experience, later days tend to take less time anyway.
So, yeah, I know it's a drag, but it's the correct thing.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I will acknowledge that it’s pretty much always the correct play not to lynch a cop claim D1, which sucks because it’s also scum fakeclaiming 101. On the other hand, the odds of Azrael getting that cop shot off if he’s trueclaiming is very unlikely.
I would be willing to swing onto tom if we have the support, but I don’t really expect that to happen.
I’d prefer not to, but would move to him to prevent a no lynch. And I recognize the desire not to lynch a cop claim.
Actually, hold up, mod gaming hat on here for a sec: If you’re gonna give a cop a modifier in design, something like macho is expected. Making a cop also a bomb is kind of terrible, because the role that scum want to kill the most is now a a 1 for 1 trade, and that’s if the cop shot doesn’t already get a red check.
My WIM is noting that it is strange that if Az is super powerful scum that I am the only one who apparently cares <_<
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
The empathy nodes in my brain were starting to make me second guess lynching Azrael, but as soon as he asked for the deadline extention that went away.
Also, today is my 5th wedding anniversary and after about two more hours I will be completely unavailable, so odds are my vote won't be moving regardless of anything that happens.
@Shadow: Per game rules, the only way to no lynch is to actually have a majority vote for it. If the deadline passes, the player with the most votes dies.
It is both a roleblock and a role cop. Regarding #2, I think you guys have all the information necessary to actually evaluate the claim, and getting that much further into the details only provides the opportunity to either 1) engage in pointless and unproductive modgaming 2) provides the scum with exactly the info they need to kill me. So no, and I don't care for the fact that Rhand was interested in that level of detail on how to play around that ability, either.
There's a certain type of self-awareness here.
Hmm. Meh.
Would prefer is this were behaviorally based, but it's an imperfect world.
*cocks head sideways* Interesting first sentence, there.
Hm. Nevermind.
Little odd to share exactly what his intentions are publicly in this way, like an instruction manual on what not to do.
I don't disagree - but can you explain that reasoning?
Cutting short here, but not willing to clear beeboy, more analysis on this slot necessary I think.
My guy, you are about to be lunched. Even if you survive AND are town, it's insane to think that scum would ever kill you.
Anyone ever excused me of not being cocky? And it's good play, regardless.
If I'm town, the scum want to kill me. One way or another, sooner or later. That's just life. I don't see many end-games.
Don't trust this, at all. Suspicious mind.
Not going after KJ is good.
Pet scum team why me and cantrip?
Hello, fellow medium-sized creatures!
[Directed at cantrip]
I don't get that at all from Cantrips post. Or towards cantrip, in general, really.
Considered applying that to your own posts this game? Like for real.
The preoccupation with controlling how others read you is real.
A little less talk, a little more action please. I know you want credit for attacking your buddy, but I'd really prefer if you want for the hard-town cred from actually trying to get him murdered, instead of aiming for cheap comment cred.
You're right here.
But not shadow, per KJ's analysis? Vaimes/Tom/Shadow team? Gutsy for all three to poke at me, but...
Yeah, you still haven't explained what the supposed cornerstone of that read is.
If you're 98% sure, maybe try killing him.
Feels more like periodic unexplained mudslinging than wrath.
...
Read those two posts in order. This is consistent how? It's perfect that Chris is being wagoned, but you haven't even read why he's being wagoned??
Continued shadow defense.
Disagree, therefore mafia. Solid reasoning, that.
Can't name a single thing that makes you townie, and I'm 3/4 through my reread on you. Found plenty that indicates otherwise.
He's happy, therefore town??
I guarantee you that I didn't invent a pair of (adorable) kids or IRL obligations solely to have an excuse to be less active in this game. Activity cases are some of the weakest, most non-alignment indicative cases you can possibly make. But sure, go for the D1 analyst lynch based on that alone.
You know, some people don't believe in deflection as defense. They believe in actually addressing the points against them, before they just try to throw someone else under the bus instead.
Anyone who thinks about this for half a second...
1) Failing to call out other people out mid-defense is hardly scummy.
2) You just plain missed where I called out multiple people in that wall, but rushed to make a negative, dismissive post against me anyways. Definitely fairly judging this wagon, definitely no agenda here.
vote Vaimes. You wanted me to counter-wagon, right?
Town:
Grapefruit
Dkingsland - numerous strong townie attitude posts.
Killjoy – strong tonally
Vez - genuine attempt to counter-claim, strong tone.
Cantripmancer – post 38: consistently focused on logic-based tells, unfair seeming attacks.
Sir chris – would have been super easy to let me die. Hopefully not pocketing me.
KCC
Rhand
beeboy – certain type of self-awareness, wants freedom to lynch arbitrarily, unvote based on role reasons. More analysis necessary, says time for competing wagons – why?
fuwa - self-deprecating frequently, fence sits on both sides of shadow and sir chris, no reasoning for sir chris vote. Inconsistent in characterizing her own attacks, seems to suggest her attacks subjective and might be valid only in her own eyes. Very light-hearted/carefree in tone, which is somewhat unusual for inexperienced scum .
Axelrod – weak push vs KJ, weak jump off. 189. Weirdly states suspicions heightened at same time he extricates.
Syrenz/LW - entertains two diametrically opposed ideas using strong language for each, wavers, then picks one. Not organic read.
Tom
Shadow – snipes reasonlessly at KJ, tries to pick on KJ for not counter-voting in his analysis post.
Vaimes – too preoccupied with protecting his own self-image, non-committed and poor explanations for votes on Cantrip and I, good explanation for vote on Tom (buddy?), but won’t follow through, too-easy clear on shadow (buddy?), multiple extremely poor voting reasons for me (activity, lack of counter-wagon, cheap points, not reading posts fully), not fairly evaluating.
Mafia
Oh wait you voted me. 24 hours before deadline. Are you sure?
Choo choo.
I think it's a bit ridiculous to argue they aren't highly inter-related, especially as this played out. I was clearly noting scum-reads throughout, as well as town-reads. What I wasn't doing, was converting those into dreadnought-style wall posts, or doing massive thread rereads, and until I can make time to engage in that level of activity, no, there won't be much "presence."
Absolutely sure, but good point. Request Deadline Extension A. Day 1's the best time for that by far, and it'd be nice to have a real wagon instead of this dreck you and Shadow and tom have been spewing.
"Honestly"
Not another emotionally manipulative post at all, here.
I remember when you read me correctly despite the entire scumteam + Sir Chris (lol) tunneling on me in the Hearthstone invitational. Now you're completely flopping on my alignment, which strikes me more as fake than rustiness.
Choo choo.
Always happy to help you edit out your scum tells ex post facto, Vaimes.
Because I strongly request not wasting it now.
Although I now understand Az's game plan with this review.
Perhaps Last would be a good idea? I haven't seen townLast yet and he's been here long enough for that to have manifested already. I've always been able to spot town!last just from his playing the game normally.
Actually, in order I'd like to lynch Shadow, Last, either Axel or Cantrip depending on who the more likely scum /barner is, And then perhaps one of KCC or Grape as I'm kinda null on them in a way I don't really like.
Az: I'd like an opinion. Rhand/Cantrip/Axel. Of the three that /barned dk's reasoning on me, I assume you think Axel is the most likely scum out of the three?
If like, four people (1/4th of the game) request a DL extension publicly in the thread, I'll grant it.
Not Cantrip. Axel's tough to read but is flashing some mildly concerning plays, and my reread hasn't reached Rhand yet. On my initial run-through, I greatly disliked how much he was pushing this meta-based argument that he really ought to have known better than to push, but until I read him I don't know whether to just be disappointed or suspicious.
Az should be lunched and we don’t need to waste an extension for that.
Can someone/a few people sanity check me; I feel like Last has been scummier than his baseline, and has lacked his typical town qualities I’m used to. Would love some commentary on him.
Ftr
Since there is obviously no interest in tom let's try this
Vote: Fuwa
Really willing to go just about anywhere but KJ at this stage. I want no part of killing a cop D1.
And then come D4, when we're actually pushed up against the deadline, and something unexpected happens, and we actually need the extra time, and we don't have it, because we wasted it here, for no reason?
The only reason we didn't lynch 48 hours ago is because it wasn't the deadline yet, and now that it is the deadline, extend it?
-No.
I don't have any meta to work with, but I liked his catchup analysis, and haven't seen anything I dislike.
I'm definitely up for pursuing this D2. But not Today. My read isn't strong enough that I'd rush lynch her without defense or claim here.
That's why he claimed it.
I said my spiel and unless we somehow pivot to kj or sir chris, I'm really fine with an Az lynch.
His whole reread has sounded nothing like town Az at all. Shallow reads and shallow accusations.
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I understand the desire for the day to just be over, really I do - but this is exactly the time to get an extension. Even though it is taking FOR-EV-VER, Az is going through the whole playerbase and giving his takes. Even if you were positive he was scum (which I'm not), that's still a good thing. In my experience, later days tend to take less time anyway.
So, yeah, I know it's a drag, but it's the correct thing.
I will acknowledge that it’s pretty much always the correct play not to lynch a cop claim D1, which sucks because it’s also scum fakeclaiming 101. On the other hand, the odds of Azrael getting that cop shot off if he’s trueclaiming is very unlikely.
I would be willing to swing onto tom if we have the support, but I don’t really expect that to happen.
@KCC: thank you wrt last.
Sound off.
I’d prefer not to, but would move to him to prevent a no lynch. And I recognize the desire not to lynch a cop claim.
Actually, hold up, mod gaming hat on here for a sec: If you’re gonna give a cop a modifier in design, something like macho is expected. Making a cop also a bomb is kind of terrible, because the role that scum want to kill the most is now a a 1 for 1 trade, and that’s if the cop shot doesn’t already get a red check.
My WIM is noting that it is strange that if Az is super powerful scum that I am the only one who apparently cares <_<
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Also, today is my 5th wedding anniversary and after about two more hours I will be completely unavailable, so odds are my vote won't be moving regardless of anything that happens.
@Shadow: Per game rules, the only way to no lynch is to actually have a majority vote for it. If the deadline passes, the player with the most votes dies.