@Cantrip, you are third on the list, but thank you
Rod hinted at being a one shot, and it doesn't look like we have terribly strong roles. I think a 50/50 vig is likely to be town.
So given that's off the table, I would prefer to lynch in Sir chris, GJ, or KJ. KJ has at least been posting, so maybe not him even though he has hammered town twice.
If Sir Chris is town here, being mislynched last game has thrown him off much more than I would have expected.
Alright, finally made it through everything. I have a ton of notes that I need to organize and comment on, but a few things first off before I will be able to get to that.
Is it possible that we got mod-confirmed lylo accounting for all Night action possibilities? And if so, why even give us that and not just let the game resolve. Like, is shadow telling us we don't have any/sufficient protection to stop the NKs? If so, why do that? The other alternative is he is telling us it's a 6 anti-town (probably 5 scum 1 SK) setup? But that wouldn't be game over going into tomorrow unless the scum kill is guaranteed to go through. Like, Winds could choose to not shoot or test the Chris claim and scum could get blocked and it would be 5v5v1 tomorrow in which scum don't have it on lock. It also doesn't account for possible throne unlock abilities that could change things. But again, why give us that info and not let us play the game? So basically I don't believe it has anything to do with what could or could not happen toNight with regards to kills/protections. Which means it's just a 6 man scum team? Winds, Shin, Tom, Vaimes, Chris, and GJ/LnG? That seems pretty ridiculous, but like I just can't figure out how/why shadow would possibly give us confirmed Night action info. Even if this tinfoil world were the case, why tell us there is a 6 man scum team anyway and not just let things resolve?
I brought this up to shadow and unsurprisingly he said he couldn't confirm anything, but did say the announcement wasn't planned and was a matter of circumstance and that something similar happened in Pirates which I haven't read and don't have the time to look up right now. Has anyone read pirates or better yet participated in?
I also really want a massclaim to happen before digging too much deeper, but also don't think it's probably worth waiting the 3 days it will probably take to happen. Pretty sure GJ hasn't posted toDay and he hasn't really claimed anything? Everyone else has some bit of a claim out I think?
I have a lot more to come, but need lunch and to do some actual work.
I'm not sure if Shadow's Day start indication that we have to lynch correctly toDay means that there are five scum (12 - mislynch - NK = 10, 5 scum would still not control the lynch), or if it takes into account Winds' kill.
Winds, is your (current) kill mandatory?
This is mostly to frame my thoughts to myself and figure out where I want to start:
Cantrip
Tom
XequalsY
Vaimes
Shinichi
Thousand_Winds (not scum because there's no way scum have that many extra kills)
I really need to figure out everyone else:
LnGrrrR - Town lean. Just feels really invested in figuring the game out. Mostly gut, I guess.
Hunger - Slightly town, also gut-ish.
Gentleman Johnny - I liked him better after our faction chat last Night, but I think it's >rand that there's scum in each faction. Certainly would believe GJ over Tom if that's true.
Rhand - Liked his entrance toDay, frustrated that his early game was hindered by cruises.
Killjoy - I'd really like my reaction test to have yielded fruit, but I also like how KJ towned LnG when LnG is a potential counter-suspect.
Sir Chris - A whole lot of posturing and yelling about being right, but not a lot of solving.
Definitely leaning toward Chris as scum bulletproof making a lot of setup sense. I guess I'll start by ISOing Chris.
I think I have said my entire role in the thread, but to be explicit and have it all in one place:
I am Daenerys and I have a locked ability that unlocks if I get the throne and I have the passive ability to be able to vote myself for the Throne. Wincons are; kill 2 Baratheon's, which can't be achieved given Winds took credit for 2 of the 3, and control the Iron Throne more times than any other faction, which would also be unlikely given the game would need to go three more days AND one of the three of myself,Chris,xy would need to be alive and on the throne for that to happen. So I'm 100% town wincon with no other hidden agenda or alt wincons driving my focus.
Already liked cantrip for town, but pending some poking around at the posts relating to claim i think the way he used it is extremely in line with towncantrip just trying to get some reads on people with it, whereas i think hed do something flashier with a scum crier role.
I like rhands process to start the day as well. Have sort of just been... steadily feeling better about him ever since i tried to wagon him day 1 i think he might be one of my top towns pre reread
Don't think anyone else said anything super noteworthy yet, besides a Thing related to Another Thing from factional chat, but im keeping that in reserve for now
Is it time for this yet? I want all the possible information we can get before deciding on a lylo.
That would make a lot of sense.
And Vaimes is scum for the Stark wincon to have a scum target. Having to lynch 2 town would be nuts.
So last scum is KJ or Shin.
It was already said that it could also be you that is the scum. And I think it's a pretty valid thought that Starks should have one non-town to be able to take out. But there is also a counterpoint to that - one of the Targaryen wincons is to kill 2 Baratheons and there were only 3 and they were all town. Which brings me to my next point - shadow confirmed that the factional scum NK performed by a Targaryen on a Baratheon would also count. So, for both the Starks and Targaryens I think it's almost certain there is a scum among them to counteract having to lynch multiple townies. It might even mean that you and Vaimes can both be town and the game was designed for this exact assumption to be a red herring. We have alt wincons of kill Stark v Lannister one side is all town one side has a scum; and we have Targaryen v Baratheon, one side is all town and one side has scum. Makes sense to me. Also makes sense that scum wouldn't have access to all 4 big faction chats. That's potentially an unfair wealth of info. I'm not sure which side of Lannister v Stark is the town side though...and Rhand/tom/Winds mucks it up a bit too since their affiliations are muddy.
That said, I think in the Starks it's probably shin or KJ. In the Targaryens I think it is pretty much lock Chris. I have some tinfoil about xy being a scum dayvig since it being public and one-shot makes it a lot harder for him to do scummy things and get away with it (in before Sir Chris says, "exactly! he did a scummy thing!"). 1053 shot was bad, but I do have a tough time seeing it as a thing scum would do. If someone (Chris) can make a strong argument for how it makes sense as a scum shot I'll listen. Also, re:Chris, the BP just makes a ton of sense as a scum role if we are in the world as it seems with Winds SK and town vig shots in xy and Kami (and potentially something with me/KJ?). And finally with Chris, I agree with LnG, Cantrip, whoever else that the bravado just isn't doing anything for me. It doesn't feel like genuine frustration and he just hasn't been trying to solve.
Still have more stuff later. Maybe not until tomorrow though. Can probably still pop in a couple times in the next couple hours.
EBWOP: I just realized I flip-flopped RE and Tubba so Winds didn't kill 2 Baratheons. In which case if Chris/xy is scum and performed the kill on RE, I did actually hit my alt wincon. But I have no control or way of knowing if that happened so it's still moot and my motivation to make sure I win the game is still 100% as town.
@GJ claim - I think that kinda has to be town if he doesn't get cc'd. With all the killing abilities in the game town needed to have some protection that's not behind a throne unlock.
I also don't like how derpy Vaimes was playing with LnG's request to vote him and then lack of actually doing so. I'd like to hear more on that and see what LnG has to share after that happens too.
I don't think my night action is compulsory. Initial plan was to just shoot once and vig claim, but felt like low posters needed culled for PoE to put in work
I also don't like how derpy Vaimes was playing with LnG's request to vote him and then lack of actually doing so. I'd like to hear more on that and see what LnG has to share after that happens too.
Yeah, Vaimes mislynch isn't happening. He's unaligned with both Chris and GJ. Plus just clearly town on top of that.
I also don't like how derpy Vaimes was playing with LnG's request to vote him and then lack of actually doing so. I'd like to hear more on that and see what LnG has to share after that happens too.
Yeah, Vaimes mislynch isn't happening. He's unaligned with both Chris and GJ. Plus just clearly town on top of that.
@Winds, explain why. Because you have absolutely no clue why I am asking, so you are speaking from a font of ignorance at the moment.
It's a mindset thing. With potentially 6 nontown alive, 1-2 stray votes on a villager in lylo could be game ending, potentially. This feels like a hail mary attempt at bravado to do something a wolf wouldn't do
@Winds, explain why. Because you have absolutely no clue why I am asking, so you are speaking from a font of ignorance at the moment.
It's a mindset thing. With potentially 6 nontown alive, 1-2 stray votes on a villager in lylo could be game ending, potentially. This feels like a hail mary attempt at bravado to do something a wolf wouldn't do
Right, because you have no clue, so kindly, be quiet
I don't think my night action is compulsory. Initial plan was to just shoot once and vig claim, but felt like low posters needed culled for PoE to put in work
You don't think? It doesn't say in your role PM? When you clarify that, please also tell me: what does your ability say about who you're supposed to protect? Does it name the players (i.e. Tom, Cantrip, etc), or just say "you win if at least 3 players from these two factions are alive at end of the game"? What happens if you do point your vig ability at a member of Night's Watch or Stark? If you answered these already, I apologize. I couldn't easily find them.
@Vaimes, I am pretty frustrated with you not voting LnG with at least one vote upon request. LnG appears to have a reason for it; I want to know what it is. Vote him.
LnG, I'll vote you in my next post if Vaimes or X hasn't. I'm guessing you have a reason for it to be Vaimes, too. I look forward to hearing your explanation.
@GJ claim - I think that kinda has to be town if he doesn't get cc'd. With all the killing abilities in the game town needed to have some protection that's not behind a throne unlock.
<.<
A un counterclaimed doc is town? Is that really all you feel about that?
I don't think my night action is compulsory. Initial plan was to just shoot once and vig claim, but felt like low posters needed culled for PoE to put in work
You don't think? It doesn't say in your role PM? When you clarify that, please also tell me: what does your ability say about who you're supposed to protect? Does it name the players (i.e. Tom, Cantrip, etc), or just say "you win if at least 3 players from these two factions are alive at end of the game"? What happens if you do point your vig ability at a member of Night's Watch or Stark? If you answered these already, I apologize. I couldn't easily find them.
Wording is kind of ambiguous and I didn't remember what it was, given I was on phone and accessing role PM is difficult. I think I functionally can just make it optional to shoot though even if it is compulsory, because if I target a Stark/NW member, they won't die/the shot does nothing.
I was given a list of 3 names (Tom, Shinichi, GJ), and it was stated that those were not the only 3 names, but just part of the factions I need to keep alive. Exact number that exist or exact names that were in each group not known. I know /now/ that I just need 3 of [Tom, Lastwhisper, Shinichi, KJ, GJ, Cantrip] alive when the game ends to win.
I don't know what my secondary win condition is, it's behind a redacted/unlockable thing. My guess is that unlocks when less than 3 Stark+NW are alive, and it'd be pretty logical that it just turns me into a pure SK. I obviously never win the game in that case, so I'm playing to townside (so I'm kept alive) and try to fulfil win that way.
I acknowledge it's probably easier for me to try and wolf side here, but that'd require a wolf hard outing and telling me who to vote and shoot tonight with enough votes already on the mislynch target to secure win, and that just feels...sketchy?
Plus on a fundamental level I'd rather win with town if possible even if that makes little rational sense, just because of who I am as a player.
@GJ claim - I think that kinda has to be town if he doesn't get cc'd. With all the killing abilities in the game town needed to have some protection that's not behind a throne unlock.
<.<
A un counterclaimed doc is town? Is that really all you feel about that?
I mean. There is a bulletproof claim, so it's not fully un-cc'd. And the setup is pretty light on power from what we've seen so far.
Like, here's kind of where I'm at - wolves came into this game day understandably feeling like they were in dominating control of game.
Right now, I actually think it's about 50/50 which side wins, if not even town favored - there's a strong PoE, unalignments will be able to be generated, and I'd bet 4-5 straight wolf lynches/kills could easily happen. And they have to be aware of it.
So when people in the PoE are shading people who are obviously town and outside the PoE in an attempt to open the box, so to speak, that looks kinda really ****in' bad. Like, walk yourself through the playerlist:
---
I'm never a wolf this game. Always neutral.
Vaimes, Tom, Cantrip are all pretty lock town.
Given the fact that Chris is almost certainly a wolf, X=Y is probably just town. It being a 1-shot along with a 1-shot conditional from..Kami? Is sufficient town sided KP.
There's always 1 wolf in GJ and Sir Chris, and I'm leaning towards Sir Chris.
There's either 3 wolves or 4 wolves in the following cluster of names, then:
LnGrrrR
Hunger
Rhand
Shinichi
Killjoy
Game really should be solvable from that PoE standpoint, looking at interactions.
GJ, am I reading 2087 correctly that you were voting Vaimes because you thought Chris was townie, and by extension you also thought me and RE were town, along with Shin, but you weren't sure on Tom? Why'd you protect him, then? And then D2, 2177 felt like you were suspicious of Tom, but you protected him again N2? Hmm, actually, you did indicate Tom as likely town behaviorally in chat last Night. But as your N1 choice?
Can you go into more detail on why your ability failed last night (flavor/indications from Shadow)?
LnG, I don't think the Night Watch wincon(s) have been detailed, and--no offense--I don't know that I want to be the one to out them. I have a tinfoil that scum alt wincons have to do with wrecking other wincons because that would introduce the most conflict into the game. If Tom and GJ have no objections to that info being out, it's not that important to me though, I guess. Probably just my innate paranoia at work.
Do you want me to try voting you, since Vaimes is being a jerkbutt about it?
Ripp sent this right after u made a post clarifying ur shot, sorry bout that
Rod hinted at being a one shot, and it doesn't look like we have terribly strong roles. I think a 50/50 vig is likely to be town.
So given that's off the table, I would prefer to lynch in Sir chris, GJ, or KJ. KJ has at least been posting, so maybe not him even though he has hammered town twice.
If Sir Chris is town here, being mislynched last game has thrown him off much more than I would have expected.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Is it possible that we got mod-confirmed lylo accounting for all Night action possibilities? And if so, why even give us that and not just let the game resolve. Like, is shadow telling us we don't have any/sufficient protection to stop the NKs? If so, why do that? The other alternative is he is telling us it's a 6 anti-town (probably 5 scum 1 SK) setup? But that wouldn't be game over going into tomorrow unless the scum kill is guaranteed to go through. Like, Winds could choose to not shoot or test the Chris claim and scum could get blocked and it would be 5v5v1 tomorrow in which scum don't have it on lock. It also doesn't account for possible throne unlock abilities that could change things. But again, why give us that info and not let us play the game? So basically I don't believe it has anything to do with what could or could not happen toNight with regards to kills/protections. Which means it's just a 6 man scum team? Winds, Shin, Tom, Vaimes, Chris, and GJ/LnG? That seems pretty ridiculous, but like I just can't figure out how/why shadow would possibly give us confirmed Night action info. Even if this tinfoil world were the case, why tell us there is a 6 man scum team anyway and not just let things resolve?
I brought this up to shadow and unsurprisingly he said he couldn't confirm anything, but did say the announcement wasn't planned and was a matter of circumstance and that something similar happened in Pirates which I haven't read and don't have the time to look up right now. Has anyone read pirates or better yet participated in?
I also really want a massclaim to happen before digging too much deeper, but also don't think it's probably worth waiting the 3 days it will probably take to happen. Pretty sure GJ hasn't posted toDay and he hasn't really claimed anything? Everyone else has some bit of a claim out I think?
I have a lot more to come, but need lunch and to do some actual work.
Sorry, weekends are as terrible for me as usual.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Maester Aemon, Town Doctor.
Bite me, wolfy boy.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Who'd you protect?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'm not sure if Shadow's Day start indication that we have to lynch correctly toDay means that there are five scum (12 - mislynch - NK = 10, 5 scum would still not control the lynch), or if it takes into account Winds' kill.
Winds, is your (current) kill mandatory?
This is mostly to frame my thoughts to myself and figure out where I want to start:
Cantrip
Tom
XequalsY
Vaimes
Shinichi
Thousand_Winds (not scum because there's no way scum have that many extra kills)
I really need to figure out everyone else:
LnGrrrR - Town lean. Just feels really invested in figuring the game out. Mostly gut, I guess.
Hunger - Slightly town, also gut-ish.
Gentleman Johnny - I liked him better after our faction chat last Night, but I think it's >rand that there's scum in each faction. Certainly would believe GJ over Tom if that's true.
Rhand - Liked his entrance toDay, frustrated that his early game was hindered by cruises.
Killjoy - I'd really like my reaction test to have yielded fruit, but I also like how KJ towned LnG when LnG is a potential counter-suspect.
Sir Chris - A whole lot of posturing and yelling about being right, but not a lot of solving.
Definitely leaning toward Chris as scum bulletproof making a lot of setup sense. I guess I'll start by ISOing Chris.
GJ, as LnG said, who were your N1 and N2 targets? Did you crumb, by chance?
(On that note, I did. First post.)
I am Daenerys and I have a locked ability that unlocks if I get the throne and I have the passive ability to be able to vote myself for the Throne. Wincons are; kill 2 Baratheon's, which can't be achieved given Winds took credit for 2 of the 3, and control the Iron Throne more times than any other faction, which would also be unlikely given the game would need to go three more days AND one of the three of myself,Chris,xy would need to be alive and on the throne for that to happen. So I'm 100% town wincon with no other hidden agenda or alt wincons driving my focus.
@Tom: Is it time for this yet? I want all the possible information we can get before deciding on a lylo. It was already said that it could also be you that is the scum. And I think it's a pretty valid thought that Starks should have one non-town to be able to take out. But there is also a counterpoint to that - one of the Targaryen wincons is to kill 2 Baratheons and there were only 3 and they were all town. Which brings me to my next point - shadow confirmed that the factional scum NK performed by a Targaryen on a Baratheon would also count. So, for both the Starks and Targaryens I think it's almost certain there is a scum among them to counteract having to lynch multiple townies. It might even mean that you and Vaimes can both be town and the game was designed for this exact assumption to be a red herring. We have alt wincons of kill Stark v Lannister one side is all town one side has a scum; and we have Targaryen v Baratheon, one side is all town and one side has scum. Makes sense to me. Also makes sense that scum wouldn't have access to all 4 big faction chats. That's potentially an unfair wealth of info. I'm not sure which side of Lannister v Stark is the town side though...and Rhand/tom/Winds mucks it up a bit too since their affiliations are muddy.
That said, I think in the Starks it's probably shin or KJ. In the Targaryens I think it is pretty much lock Chris. I have some tinfoil about xy being a scum dayvig since it being public and one-shot makes it a lot harder for him to do scummy things and get away with it (in before Sir Chris says, "exactly! he did a scummy thing!"). 1053 shot was bad, but I do have a tough time seeing it as a thing scum would do. If someone (Chris) can make a strong argument for how it makes sense as a scum shot I'll listen. Also, re:Chris, the BP just makes a ton of sense as a scum role if we are in the world as it seems with Winds SK and town vig shots in xy and Kami (and potentially something with me/KJ?). And finally with Chris, I agree with LnG, Cantrip, whoever else that the bravado just isn't doing anything for me. It doesn't feel like genuine frustration and he just hasn't been trying to solve.
Still have more stuff later. Maybe not until tomorrow though. Can probably still pop in a couple times in the next couple hours.
Guaranteed to be 1 in GJ/Chris, but seemed likely independent of claims.
Chris or GJ + 4 of [Rhand, LnG, Hunger, KJ, Shinichi]? Kind of wild. Any clears in that final group means rest are probably wolves.
I didn’t know if he meant that, or to vote with him, or to vote him for king. And then I was at a party and forgot about it.
Maybe he should apologize for name-calling.
Targets, go.
Yeah, Vaimes mislynch isn't happening. He's unaligned with both Chris and GJ. Plus just clearly town on top of that.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
It's a mindset thing. With potentially 6 nontown alive, 1-2 stray votes on a villager in lylo could be game ending, potentially. This feels like a hail mary attempt at bravado to do something a wolf wouldn't do
Right, because you have no clue, so kindly, be quiet
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
@Vaimes, I am pretty frustrated with you not voting LnG with at least one vote upon request. LnG appears to have a reason for it; I want to know what it is. Vote him.
LnG, I'll vote you in my next post if Vaimes or X hasn't. I'm guessing you have a reason for it to be Vaimes, too. I look forward to hearing your explanation.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Is Master Aemon a Night Watch? Or a Targ?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I don't know why I thought there were three nights. Still failed last night.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
<.<
A un counterclaimed doc is town? Is that really all you feel about that?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Wording is kind of ambiguous and I didn't remember what it was, given I was on phone and accessing role PM is difficult. I think I functionally can just make it optional to shoot though even if it is compulsory, because if I target a Stark/NW member, they won't die/the shot does nothing.
I was given a list of 3 names (Tom, Shinichi, GJ), and it was stated that those were not the only 3 names, but just part of the factions I need to keep alive. Exact number that exist or exact names that were in each group not known. I know /now/ that I just need 3 of [Tom, Lastwhisper, Shinichi, KJ, GJ, Cantrip] alive when the game ends to win.
I don't know what my secondary win condition is, it's behind a redacted/unlockable thing. My guess is that unlocks when less than 3 Stark+NW are alive, and it'd be pretty logical that it just turns me into a pure SK. I obviously never win the game in that case, so I'm playing to townside (so I'm kept alive) and try to fulfil win that way.
I acknowledge it's probably easier for me to try and wolf side here, but that'd require a wolf hard outing and telling me who to vote and shoot tonight with enough votes already on the mislynch target to secure win, and that just feels...sketchy?
Plus on a fundamental level I'd rather win with town if possible even if that makes little rational sense, just because of who I am as a player.
I mean. There is a bulletproof claim, so it's not fully un-cc'd. And the setup is pretty light on power from what we've seen so far.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Right now, I actually think it's about 50/50 which side wins, if not even town favored - there's a strong PoE, unalignments will be able to be generated, and I'd bet 4-5 straight wolf lynches/kills could easily happen. And they have to be aware of it.
So when people in the PoE are shading people who are obviously town and outside the PoE in an attempt to open the box, so to speak, that looks kinda really ****in' bad. Like, walk yourself through the playerlist:
---
I'm never a wolf this game. Always neutral.
Vaimes, Tom, Cantrip are all pretty lock town.
Given the fact that Chris is almost certainly a wolf, X=Y is probably just town. It being a 1-shot along with a 1-shot conditional from..Kami? Is sufficient town sided KP.
There's always 1 wolf in GJ and Sir Chris, and I'm leaning towards Sir Chris.
There's either 3 wolves or 4 wolves in the following cluster of names, then:
LnGrrrR
Hunger
Rhand
Shinichi
Killjoy
Game really should be solvable from that PoE standpoint, looking at interactions.
Alright then.
I forget who I’m voting with which color.
Unvote
Unvote, vote LnGr
Ok i want lngrr and rhand to claim
Can you go into more detail on why your ability failed last night (flavor/indications from Shadow)?
LnG, I don't think the Night Watch wincon(s) have been detailed, and--no offense--I don't know that I want to be the one to out them. I have a tinfoil that scum alt wincons have to do with wrecking other wincons because that would introduce the most conflict into the game. If Tom and GJ have no objections to that info being out, it's not that important to me though, I guess. Probably just my innate paranoia at work.
Do you want me to try voting you, since Vaimes is being a jerkbutt about it?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!