This day sucks, and is far too long with too many walls that are mostly a huge pain to read through.
I still grape is the best lynch, but getting close to the end of the Day. Better to lynch someone than no-lynch. So... town? Can we come together on someone?
Hot take: Wisp isn't scum. I'm looking at his ISO and I think this is regular ole Wisp; Not really scum with anyone, same tone I've always seen from him.
Also hot take: Rhand is. His process is off. He feels like he thinks he needs a scumread. I don't think his read on HR feels genuine.
I do not believe this is how Rhand scumreads people.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@1053
I'm sorry if that's how you feel. It wasn't my intention. I don't think I've been tunneling you. As I've already pointed out, I've been focused on other players as well.
I don't know why you want to label me as someone prone to tunneling others with disregard for their alignment. I've given my reasons for voting Wisp. You've done things I personally don't understand, but I'm aware it could be due to an unfamiliar setting or difference in play style, hence my questions and no vote.
Why does my read of you ping you as opposed to the other players who've expressed suspicion of you?
I also think you misunderstood me. I won't stop you from solving in whatever way suits you best (unless it's strictly mechanical, in which case, I'd probably push for more behavioral reads, but that's not too relevant now), but I think tonal reads are generally ineffective (a coin flip and more often reflective of a person's playstyle than alignment) unless used with meta. You stated you don't have meta on people here. It's also why I've been suspicious of the early townreads of you. They are tonal more than anything, and without knowing how you'd normally play, it could just be a NAI thing.
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Hot take: Wisp isn't scum. I'm looking at his ISO and I think this is regular ole Wisp; Not really scum with anyone, same tone I've always seen from him.
Also hot take: Rhand is. His process is off. He feels like he thinks he needs a scumread. I don't think his read on HR feels genuine.
I do not believe this is how Rhand scumreads people.
Vote Rhand
I think his read on HR is genuine, and wtf does scum!Rhand get out of voting HR? Like if he had an agenda, than HR would not be the optimal choice...
Hot take: Wisp isn't scum. I'm looking at his ISO and I think this is regular ole Wisp; Not really scum with anyone, same tone I've always seen from him.
Also hot take: Rhand is. His process is off. He feels like he thinks he needs a scumread. I don't think his read on HR feels genuine.
I do not believe this is how Rhand scumreads people.
Vote Rhand
I also thought Rhand was sketchy. From one of my previous posts: "@Rhand, you’re killing me with all these questions. I haven’t been noting any specific posts, but in general I notice that you love asking leading questions without really contributing your own reads. To me, that’s a scummy move. Like there was one post where you were like ‘if we kill shin and he flips town, does that mean wisp is automatically scum?’ Not sure if you were trying to set him up to be the next lynch without looking like you ever pushed him because you have insider knowledge/know shin will flip town. In any case, instead of saying #1110, how about telling us what you think wisps defense of shin says about their alignment. "
Thought he wouldn't get any votes though so didn't bother, but willing to vote if it can actually become a legit wagon.
Hot take: Wisp isn't scum. I'm looking at his ISO and I think this is regular ole Wisp; Not really scum with anyone, same tone I've always seen from him.
Also hot take: Rhand is. His process is off. He feels like he thinks he needs a scumread. I don't think his read on HR feels genuine.
I do not believe this is how Rhand scumreads people.
Vote Rhand
I think his read on HR is genuine, and wtf does scum!Rhand get out of voting HR? Like if he had an agenda, than HR would not be the optimal choice...
MAybe it's the scumread he can justify most? IDK. Scum don't always act optimally.
I just kinda know how Rhand plays and this ain't it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@1053
I'm sorry if that's how you feel. It wasn't my intention. I don't think I've been tunneling you. As I've already pointed out, I've been focused on other players as well.
I don't know why you want to label me as someone prone to tunneling others with disregard for their alignment. I've given my reasons for voting Wisp. You've done things I personally don't understand, but I'm aware it could be due to an unfamiliar setting or difference in play style, hence my questions and no vote.
Why does my read of you ping you as opposed to the other players who've expressed suspicion of you?
I also think you misunderstood me. I won't stop you from solving in whatever way suits you best (unless it's strictly mechanical, in which case, I'd probably push for more behavioral reads, but that's not too relevant now), but I think tonal reads are generally ineffective (a coin flip and more often reflective of a person's playstyle than alignment) unless used with meta. You stated you don't have meta on people here. It's also why I've been suspicious of the early townreads of you. They are tonal more than anything, and without knowing how you'd normally play, it could just be a NAI thing.
Oh okay, fair enough. Honestly, hard to point to one specific thing. It just struck me as different than the other reads. I think it probably has to do with you being the first to point the finger (I believe after my first post) and being completely consistent throughout. Like with every additional post I felt like you found another thing to support your theory--like you were just grasping for anything that could support it.
Hot take: Wisp isn't scum. I'm looking at his ISO and I think this is regular ole Wisp; Not really scum with anyone, same tone I've always seen from him.
Also hot take: Rhand is. His process is off. He feels like he thinks he needs a scumread. I don't think his read on HR feels genuine.
I do not believe this is how Rhand scumreads people.
Vote Rhand
I also thought Rhand was sketchy. From one of my previous posts: "@Rhand, you’re killing me with all these questions. I haven’t been noting any specific posts, but in general I notice that you love asking leading questions without really contributing your own reads. To me, that’s a scummy move. Like there was one post where you were like ‘if we kill shin and he flips town, does that mean wisp is automatically scum?’ Not sure if you were trying to set him up to be the next lynch without looking like you ever pushed him because you have insider knowledge/know shin will flip town. In any case, instead of saying #1110, how about telling us what you think wisps defense of shin says about their alignment. "
Thought he wouldn't get any votes though so didn't bother, but willing to vote if it can actually become a legit wagon.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
As far as Rhand goes, I feel like I'm pretty good at getting a sense for his alignment without necessarily being able to put it into words. Usually it helps to see who's pushing on him, when, and how. I'm willing to give him the BOTD given that it doesn't really feel to me like he's using his catch-up status to hide.
As far as Rhand goes, I feel like I'm pretty good at getting a sense for his alignment without necessarily being able to put it into words. Usually it helps to see who's pushing on him, when, and how. I'm willing to give him the BOTD given that it doesn't really feel to me like he's using his catch-up status to hide.
I don't think Rhand would do that. Rhand dislikes that he can't participate as much as he wants to, and as such would hate not doing things.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
To me it came off more as him trying to look for something to hook him into the game, rather than being like, "oh I need to have a scumread to look towny!"
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@DV
I'm guessing you like KJ then? I can't remember if you said anything about him, since it's been so long. I ask that because he is also in my faction
I skimmed thread while thinking things over and I'm glad I did.
Popping in to say don't lynch LW. I'm going to say he's basically mod confirmed town to me.
If there is scum in that group its either Tom or Shinichi.
Is this still about that thing you won't actually talk about or was it elaborated on somewhere?
Yes, and I will say basically, and not fully mod confirmed. But I think if there is anything I understand more than anyone else that's in this game or on the review board for this game, it would be setup gaming.
Hot take: Wisp isn't scum. I'm looking at his ISO and I think this is regular ole Wisp; Not really scum with anyone, same tone I've always seen from him.
Also hot take: Rhand is. His process is off. He feels like he thinks he needs a scumread. I don't think his read on HR feels genuine.
I do not believe this is how Rhand scumreads people.
Vote Rhand
I also thought Rhand was sketchy. From one of my previous posts: "@Rhand, you’re killing me with all these questions. I haven’t been noting any specific posts, but in general I notice that you love asking leading questions without really contributing your own reads. To me, that’s a scummy move. Like there was one post where you were like ‘if we kill shin and he flips town, does that mean wisp is automatically scum?’ Not sure if you were trying to set him up to be the next lynch without looking like you ever pushed him because you have insider knowledge/know shin will flip town. In any case, instead of saying #1110, how about telling us what you think wisps defense of shin says about their alignment. "
Thought he wouldn't get any votes though so didn't bother, but willing to vote if it can actually become a legit wagon.
Vote Rhand
Hm. That's kinda explainy. So that's a thing.
Lol I have been accused of not having reads and that was a read I had earlier. Also earlier people requested no naked votes so thought explaining was something that was necessary
I skimmed thread while thinking things over and I'm glad I did.
Popping in to say don't lynch LW. I'm going to say he's basically mod confirmed town to me.
If there is scum in that group its either Tom or Shinichi.
I understand Shinichi, explain Tom.
I don't like pulling off LW for an unexplained reason, but I don't think DV and LW are scum together here. And I don't think scum DV attempts to save town LW. So the question is whether I trust DV's judgement.
Oh okay, fair enough. Honestly, hard to point to one specific thing. It just struck me as different than the other reads. I think it probably has to do with you being the first to point the finger (I believe after my first post) and being completely consistent throughout. Like with every additional post I felt like you found another thing to support your theory--like you were just grasping for anything that could support it.
That's valid. Part of my read of you was circumstantial (based on the reads others gave you) and had little to do with what you were posting. So that could have felt unjustified.
I've also been wanting to break the habit of automatically scumreading thoughts/posts I don't understand. My biggest fear in any game as town is to push someone who's right. So if you need breathing room, you've got it.
I'd be cool voting between two players. Good with Highroller/Vaimes.
Barring any preponderance of evidence on Rhand suddenly appearing, we should not be voting Rhand. We should be voting either LastWhisper, Shinichi, or Grape. In that order.
I think we might be facing a LW + Shin + HR world with awkward bussing situations.
... What.
Also, I thought Grapefruit was mafia? If Grape's not mafia, then why am I suspicious for voting LastWhisper and only FOSing Grape? I thought that was the whole reason for you thinking I was suspicious in the first place.
I skimmed thread while thinking things over and I'm glad I did.
Popping in to say don't lynch LW. I'm going to say he's basically mod confirmed town to me.
If there is scum in that group its either Tom or Shinichi.
Is this still about that thing you won't actually talk about or was it elaborated on somewhere?
Yes, and I will say basically, and not fully mod confirmed. But I think if there is anything I understand more than anyone else that's in this game or on the review board for this game, it would be setup gaming.
And that's a wrap for me today. Cya all in a few.
Can you explain why Wisp in particular is modconfirmed to you, and not any other player?
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Should we go for the tie to see what happens or just have 10 on one person and 9 on the other?
We could do 1-9 or 1-10 on the list vote Highroller and 10-19 or 11-19 Vaimes?
I think aiming for a tie would produce more interesting results.
Going by numbers would make things simple, but I get the feeling that unless people explicitly state that they will be voting, it's up in the air whether everyone will vote accordingly.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Everyone talks about Dorne getting a short shrift in the show but the Tyrells got screwed over in adaptation...
Anyway it feels like I'm probably going to be the compromise candidate toDay. So if I'm feeling up to it I'm going to try and dive into every suspecting me's reasons later.
Man, even with the supposed slip in mind, I'm honestly struggling see DV as scum this game.
LW, I uh, am of the opinion that being dissatisfied with the gamestate whilst doing nothing about it is a pretty big red flag. It just looks like you're complaining about being pushed on, and I never really took you for someone who cared about that sort of thing as town.
What makes you see DV as town? And what do you make of his claiming LW is lock town?
@Shin I think DV is scum. I don't think he's town. Since LW refused to can you point to where you think I'm gaslighting him?
@LW can you reply to my 1403 please.
@1053 what did you like about DV's 1331? What did you think of my 1336?
LW I have to disagree on the green check saving me. At the time you felt it was unnecessary to out because I wasn't in danger. Your first post after KJ claiming his check was asking him why he claimed it then. Also what do you mean for once? I have died early a ton. Anyway your progression on me is not something I understand here. If you think I'm gaslighting DV you probably shouldn't be able to see me still being town. Gaslighting someone and being town are pretty mutually exclusive.
your right, I didn't think it was bad from a game state point of view, but your posts never got better, KJ practically saved you from being lynched...
And maybe gas-lighting is the wrong term, but the way you are antgonizing DV doesn't feel townie at all
LW I have to disagree on the green check saving me. At the time you felt it was unnecessary to out because I wasn't in danger. Your first post after KJ claiming his check was asking him why he claimed it then. Also what do you mean for once? I have died early a ton. Anyway your progression on me is not something I understand here. If you think I'm gaslighting DV you probably shouldn't be able to see me still being town. Gaslighting someone and being town are pretty mutually exclusive.
your right, I did think it was bad from a game state point of view, but your posts never got better, KJ practically saved you from being lynched...
And maybe gas-lighting is the wrong term, but the way you are antgonizing DV doesn't feel townie at all
Or I never bothered trying to make anyone think I was town because I went from a shrug to having a green check on me. So I was able to not give a single crap about what anyone thought about me because I had carte blanche.
And if it's the head to head stuff then yes gaslighting is absolutely the wrong term. Gaslighting means repeatedly lying to someone in an effort to convince them the lie is true. And if you think my getting my hackles up means I'm not townie then all I can say is go read prison mafia or zombie mafia from MAL a few years back unless they got lost to the great site problems. You're not looking at what I'm saying by the merits, just by my aggressive tone.
And regardless why is my clapping back at someone who went out of their way to bring up how bad I am scummy in the first place? I get that everyone seems to be scum reading me for this, but there isn't a progression there. It's just that I'm being unpleasant and everyone wants that to be because I'm scum.
Gaslighting doesn't need to be a lie, you can certainly make someone question their sanity without lying
Tell me, who would you vote if not DV?
Lying is literally used in the definition. It's not the only method, but it's pretty much the key element.
And you still haven't pointed to examples of me attempting to make DV question his sanity. If anything it's the other way because he's said multiple times that I haven't done things I have done (for example say how many times I've correctly read town!Shin).
Anyway before your recent bout of defeatism convinced me you probably weren't scum it would have been you. Now I'm not sure. Not a fan of any push right now.
Gaslighting doesn't need to be a lie, you can certainly make someone question their sanity without lying
Tell me, who would you vote if not DV?
Lying is literally used in the definition. It's not the only method, but it's pretty much the key element.
And you still haven't pointed to examples of me attempting to make DV question his sanity. If anything it's the other way because he's said multiple times that I haven't done things I have done (for example say how many times I've correctly read town!Shin).
Anyway before your recent bout of defeatism convinced me you probably weren't scum it would have been you. Now I'm not sure. Not a fan of any push right now.
A quick search for gaslighting shows.
"manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity." As the definition.
Wikipedia uses
"Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's belief."
Neither of them use the word lie anywhere in the definition. Why are you Gaslighting the definition of gaslighting?
"Key element" do you even understand what Key element means or are you throwing that term around. Even by wikipedia's definition its an element, but clearly there are other forms that can exist without lying at all. Denial, misdirection and contradiction are all key elements as well. In fact it seems to be a four factor test, that has factors weighed individually and holistically.
I figured it out.
So, Grape they are right you are trying to Gaslight me.
This is the same ***** that happened in Ghostbusters. I swapped my opinion on Terry, and HR told me I couldn't have possibly listened to other people. Well, guess what I did, and this is the same thing here. I did exactly what Grape said I did, and he doesn't believe me, and he wants to Gaslight me and tell me that what I say isn't true. Well, guess what grape it is.
So, now the question becomes are you tunneled town or scum? Frankly I don't see how Town Grape uses OOG information to push me, continues the push after being called out, and then on top of all of that ignores everything else I've produced in game. Then again, in Playstation town grape was baffled that I was one of the highest town reads, because Grape really has no idea how to read a room.
IDK, does Grape as town stick to me like white on rice, because of an OOG read, that when I explain it to him he says "I don't care lul". Or is this scum Grape that doesn't have a clue what to do, and is trying his best to look town in a low content game to an extent.
The best way I can tell to figure this out is go to his reads.
Grapes read on me isn't just bad, its atrocious. I've made plenty of towny posts, I'm leaking information into the thread and on top of that his only thing on me is OOG.
Grapes trying to scum read Last AND KJ. Which is just appalling to me. Its almost as bad as Rhands post. The same faction has 2-3 scum in one faction really?
He has LNG as scum. Why might you ask? Because LNG pushed Grape.
Then he has KA as scum. How, is beyond me. KA has posted nothing but town posts. In fact I'd say KA should be trailing behind vaimes as a town read.
1053 is a trash read, and Grape admitted as much.
Tom yeah I guess Tom's close to neutral for Grape, but how he has tom as more townie when Tom has literally tried to do nothing but lynch his faction mates is beyond me.
Rhand, How the hell is Rhand town? Probably a scum mate or a faction mate he is just ham fisting into the reads.
Rod, Yeah I have a weak clear on Rod too, ehh, just not that strong of a read either way IMO. I'd also give the Vaimes read as being fair.
Shin, LOL, Grape still has yet to say EXACTLY how many games he has correctly read Shin to my knowledge.
RE, Yeah I don't get this read as town either. RE is incredibly wolfy IMO.
HR I view as neutral. I'm ignoring the four neutral reads as well largely because most of them don't have content.
I'll point out too at this point we are 1500 posts into a game and shin has voted zero people with almost 1/15 of the posts coming from him alone, and on top of that he has never once explained his Rod read.
I feel incredibly comfortable lynching Grape, why might you ask? Because I refuse to accept that town Grape plays like this. Tom or maybe Vaimes or maybe both of them have said to me "If that person is scum, would you be offended" which I typically answer with a "No, they are trying to win". So, with that the only way Grape continues to sit on me is because Grape is trying to win as scum, because I can't believe for a moment town Grape legitimately pushes me like this.
I'll also wagon Shinichi, Rhand and MAYBE Tom, but I have some reasons for thinking Tom might be town.
@Re, I'm clearly not interested in answering any of those questions. This is one of those trust me or don't trust me moments.
Also, yes to anyone asking the information that makes me say its not LW makes me also say its either Shinichi or Tom. I'd also say its not KJ, but I think KJ can easily be cleared by behavior. Then again I think LW can be cleared by behavior as well. Can, I just quote Playstation mafia where he posted almost exactly the same way to you guys?
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Why would I be afraid to vote for you if I was scum? It would be an easy win
And if at least 50% of my faction is alive at the end of the game
I still grape is the best lynch, but getting close to the end of the Day. Better to lynch someone than no-lynch. So... town? Can we come together on someone?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Also hot take: Rhand is. His process is off. He feels like he thinks he needs a scumread. I don't think his read on HR feels genuine.
I do not believe this is how Rhand scumreads people.
Vote Rhand
He seems to be your top scum and your counterwagon seems pretty obvi
vote: Grape
FoS on Tubba and 1053 because of how they reacted
I'm sorry if that's how you feel. It wasn't my intention. I don't think I've been tunneling you. As I've already pointed out, I've been focused on other players as well.
I don't know why you want to label me as someone prone to tunneling others with disregard for their alignment. I've given my reasons for voting Wisp. You've done things I personally don't understand, but I'm aware it could be due to an unfamiliar setting or difference in play style, hence my questions and no vote.
Why does my read of you ping you as opposed to the other players who've expressed suspicion of you?
I also think you misunderstood me. I won't stop you from solving in whatever way suits you best (unless it's strictly mechanical, in which case, I'd probably push for more behavioral reads, but that's not too relevant now), but I think tonal reads are generally ineffective (a coin flip and more often reflective of a person's playstyle than alignment) unless used with meta. You stated you don't have meta on people here. It's also why I've been suspicious of the early townreads of you. They are tonal more than anything, and without knowing how you'd normally play, it could just be a NAI thing.
I also thought Rhand was sketchy. From one of my previous posts: "@Rhand, you’re killing me with all these questions. I haven’t been noting any specific posts, but in general I notice that you love asking leading questions without really contributing your own reads. To me, that’s a scummy move. Like there was one post where you were like ‘if we kill shin and he flips town, does that mean wisp is automatically scum?’ Not sure if you were trying to set him up to be the next lynch without looking like you ever pushed him because you have insider knowledge/know shin will flip town. In any case, instead of saying #1110, how about telling us what you think wisps defense of shin says about their alignment. "
Thought he wouldn't get any votes though so didn't bother, but willing to vote if it can actually become a legit wagon.
Vote Rhand
I just kinda know how Rhand plays and this ain't it.
Oh okay, fair enough. Honestly, hard to point to one specific thing. It just struck me as different than the other reads. I think it probably has to do with you being the first to point the finger (I believe after my first post) and being completely consistent throughout. Like with every additional post I felt like you found another thing to support your theory--like you were just grasping for anything that could support it.
As far as Rhand goes, I feel like I'm pretty good at getting a sense for his alignment without necessarily being able to put it into words. Usually it helps to see who's pushing on him, when, and how. I'm willing to give him the BOTD given that it doesn't really feel to me like he's using his catch-up status to hide.
I'm interested in hearing a little more about how you personally read Rhand, since I kind of do it in an opposite sort of way.
Popping in to say don't lynch LW. I'm going to say he's basically mod confirmed town to me.
If there is scum in that group its either Tom or Shinichi.
Unvote
I'll take a look at Grape soon. Also at 1053. That explainy post is A Thing.
I'm guessing you like KJ then? I can't remember if you said anything about him, since it's been so long. I ask that because he is also in my faction
Yes, and I will say basically, and not fully mod confirmed. But I think if there is anything I understand more than anyone else that's in this game or on the review board for this game, it would be setup gaming.
And that's a wrap for me today. Cya all in a few.
Lol I have been accused of not having reads and that was a read I had earlier. Also earlier people requested no naked votes so thought explaining was something that was necessary
I don't like pulling off LW for an unexplained reason, but I don't think DV and LW are scum together here. And I don't think scum DV attempts to save town LW. So the question is whether I trust DV's judgement.
I've also been wanting to break the habit of automatically scumreading thoughts/posts I don't understand. My biggest fear in any game as town is to push someone who's right. So if you need breathing room, you've got it.
I'd be cool voting between two players. Good with Highroller/Vaimes.
2. Vaimes
3. Sir Chris
4. Cantripmancer
5. Shinichi
6. Rhand
7. Hunger
8. Grapefruit21
9. Tubba Fett
10. LnGrrrR
11. Gentleman Johnny
12. Highroller
13. Rodemy
14. RE1031 - Vaimes
15. 1053nm
16. Lastwhisper
17. Killjoy
18. D_V
19. tomsloger
Tomorrow is another story.
... What.
Also, I thought Grapefruit was mafia? If Grape's not mafia, then why am I suspicious for voting LastWhisper and only FOSing Grape? I thought that was the whole reason for you thinking I was suspicious in the first place.
We could do 1-9 or 1-10 on the list vote Highroller and 10-19 or 11-19 Vaimes?
Going by numbers would make things simple, but I get the feeling that unless people explicitly state that they will be voting, it's up in the air whether everyone will vote accordingly.
So I can't convince you that I am town, but you will listen to 1053...
The only other candidate I'd consider for today is Shinichi.
(Vaimes for iron throne)
Technically speaking a no lynch could be in service of me winning but i still dont want it i really want people to vote
Everyone talks about Dorne getting a short shrift in the show but the Tyrells got screwed over in adaptation...
Anyway it feels like I'm probably going to be the compromise candidate toDay. So if I'm feeling up to it I'm going to try and dive into every suspecting me's reasons later.
Anyway
What makes you see DV as town? And what do you make of his claiming LW is lock town?
@Shin I think DV is scum. I don't think he's town. Since LW refused to can you point to where you think I'm gaslighting him?
@LW can you reply to my 1403 please.
@1053 what did you like about DV's 1331? What did you think of my 1336?
And maybe gas-lighting is the wrong term, but the way you are antgonizing DV doesn't feel townie at all
And if it's the head to head stuff then yes gaslighting is absolutely the wrong term. Gaslighting means repeatedly lying to someone in an effort to convince them the lie is true. And if you think my getting my hackles up means I'm not townie then all I can say is go read prison mafia or zombie mafia from MAL a few years back unless they got lost to the great site problems. You're not looking at what I'm saying by the merits, just by my aggressive tone.
Tell me, who would you vote if not DV?
Lying is literally used in the definition. It's not the only method, but it's pretty much the key element.
And you still haven't pointed to examples of me attempting to make DV question his sanity. If anything it's the other way because he's said multiple times that I haven't done things I have done (for example say how many times I've correctly read town!Shin).
Anyway before your recent bout of defeatism convinced me you probably weren't scum it would have been you. Now I'm not sure. Not a fan of any push right now.
A quick search for gaslighting shows.
"manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity." As the definition.
Wikipedia uses
"Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's belief."
Neither of them use the word lie anywhere in the definition. Why are you Gaslighting the definition of gaslighting?
"Key element" do you even understand what Key element means or are you throwing that term around. Even by wikipedia's definition its an element, but clearly there are other forms that can exist without lying at all. Denial, misdirection and contradiction are all key elements as well. In fact it seems to be a four factor test, that has factors weighed individually and holistically.
I figured it out.
So, Grape they are right you are trying to Gaslight me.
This is the same ***** that happened in Ghostbusters. I swapped my opinion on Terry, and HR told me I couldn't have possibly listened to other people. Well, guess what I did, and this is the same thing here. I did exactly what Grape said I did, and he doesn't believe me, and he wants to Gaslight me and tell me that what I say isn't true. Well, guess what grape it is.
So, now the question becomes are you tunneled town or scum? Frankly I don't see how Town Grape uses OOG information to push me, continues the push after being called out, and then on top of all of that ignores everything else I've produced in game. Then again, in Playstation town grape was baffled that I was one of the highest town reads, because Grape really has no idea how to read a room.
IDK, does Grape as town stick to me like white on rice, because of an OOG read, that when I explain it to him he says "I don't care lul". Or is this scum Grape that doesn't have a clue what to do, and is trying his best to look town in a low content game to an extent.
The best way I can tell to figure this out is go to his reads.
Grapes read on me isn't just bad, its atrocious. I've made plenty of towny posts, I'm leaking information into the thread and on top of that his only thing on me is OOG.
Grapes trying to scum read Last AND KJ. Which is just appalling to me. Its almost as bad as Rhands post. The same faction has 2-3 scum in one faction really?
He has LNG as scum. Why might you ask? Because LNG pushed Grape.
Then he has KA as scum. How, is beyond me. KA has posted nothing but town posts. In fact I'd say KA should be trailing behind vaimes as a town read.
1053 is a trash read, and Grape admitted as much.
Tom yeah I guess Tom's close to neutral for Grape, but how he has tom as more townie when Tom has literally tried to do nothing but lynch his faction mates is beyond me.
Rhand, How the hell is Rhand town? Probably a scum mate or a faction mate he is just ham fisting into the reads.
Rod, Yeah I have a weak clear on Rod too, ehh, just not that strong of a read either way IMO. I'd also give the Vaimes read as being fair.
Shin, LOL, Grape still has yet to say EXACTLY how many games he has correctly read Shin to my knowledge.
RE, Yeah I don't get this read as town either. RE is incredibly wolfy IMO.
HR I view as neutral. I'm ignoring the four neutral reads as well largely because most of them don't have content.
I'll point out too at this point we are 1500 posts into a game and shin has voted zero people with almost 1/15 of the posts coming from him alone, and on top of that he has never once explained his Rod read.
I feel incredibly comfortable lynching Grape, why might you ask? Because I refuse to accept that town Grape plays like this. Tom or maybe Vaimes or maybe both of them have said to me "If that person is scum, would you be offended" which I typically answer with a "No, they are trying to win". So, with that the only way Grape continues to sit on me is because Grape is trying to win as scum, because I can't believe for a moment town Grape legitimately pushes me like this.
I'll also wagon Shinichi, Rhand and MAYBE Tom, but I have some reasons for thinking Tom might be town.
@Re, I'm clearly not interested in answering any of those questions. This is one of those trust me or don't trust me moments.
Also, yes to anyone asking the information that makes me say its not LW makes me also say its either Shinichi or Tom. I'd also say its not KJ, but I think KJ can easily be cleared by behavior. Then again I think LW can be cleared by behavior as well. Can, I just quote Playstation mafia where he posted almost exactly the same way to you guys?