Thinking about that stated refusal to engage me further based on a disagreement on a single player that i had literally just aknowledged i could be wrong on (probably not, but i said it 1 post before)
But like i dont think it takes too much reading beteeen the lines to take that as the factual statement im making that hes literally never getting vaimes lynched on that logic. and that i, as town, think chris is a very reasonable vote rn and as such see no reason to look for scum on his wagon (and he hasnt given one either)
Im still at "wait and see" on chris mostly. Theres been some pings, including this, but hes barely started playing.
Green are confirmed town (to me, at the least). Blue are decently strong town reads. Purple are Stark claims, and are off table for me for the time being due to alt win condition. I'll place faction win con above that if push comes to shove, but it's only day two, and there's other wolves to find. Uncolored are kind of indecisive reads, where there's things that make me lean town, but it's just not enough to bump them up to the tier above. I think there's probably at least 2 wolves in the orange names, which almost feels too easy, but when town reading a lot of the more active players, sometimes it just happens that way, especially if D1 was mostly town wagons and wolves were content with it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I think Kamikaze is pretty likely to just be a wolf here. I think the way he entered this day phase, with multiple votes on him felt a little too calm and collected, like he's intentionally trying to seem unbothered by it - but there's been zero attempt to figure out why people are voting him, or delve into the alignment of those players really, and it just doesn't feel like a natural response to me.
Maybe if I have some time I'll do some meta diving and see if this level of detachment is a usual thing for him, but it felt jarring when not a lot else has jumped out at me.
I think the game makes a lot more sense if one of Rhand or Shinichi is a wolf. I don't...really understand why Grapefruit was lynched over Rhand in particular. Rhand dying fulfils a stark win condition, and was significantly less active than Grape was. Maybe it's just an oddity in how I approach the game, but I'll always dig my heels in against lynching someone that posts almost 200 times on day one. I feel like if Rhand was town, he'd have been the shrug lynch of choice and wolves would have supported it, since they could push it as being Starks going for their win con, "had to get a lynch of some kind", etc.
I dunno. I wish I'd actually been in the game when that swing was happening to get a better feel for the flow of the wagons, re-reading it doesn't quite have the same finger on the pulse.
@Thousand Winds: I learned a long time ago not to care about people voting me. If they have exceptionally bad reasoning I'll mention it, but there's nothing interesting for me in a couple of people finding me scummy, and it doesn't tell me much about their alignment - natural bias makes it harder to analyze a vote on yourself than on anyone else.
@Thousand Winds: I learned a long time ago not to care about people voting me. If they have exceptionally bad reasoning I'll mention it, but there's nothing interesting for me in a couple of people finding me scummy, and it doesn't tell me much about their alignment - natural bias makes it harder to analyze a vote on yourself than on anyone else.
Hm. You aren't wrong, to a degree, it just felt like an unnatural over-correction to avoid it as much as you did.
Talk to me about the reads I listed in post #2054, outside of yourself obviously, are there any town reads or scum reads you strongly disagree with? Why?
Like, it feels like you've been asking questions, but not really going anywhere with them, or drawing any conclusions. Just kind of existing on the fringes of the game in the way that fits what I think wolves are probably doing this game. I acknowledge there's not much you can actually say in defense of that, but if you're town here I'd like to see you try and narrow focus a little, identify someone you think is a likely wolf, and try and push that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I’ve tended to write massive walls before whilst catching up, and I don’t think it’s actually that helpful (and takes me forever) so I’m trying to change it up this time.
Probably gonna just comment on the main wagons yesterday for now and go from there, but if you guys have something that you want me to look over, I’ll try and do that too.
Probably won't get caught up fully today, but couple things stuck out to me in the first 10 pages:
Since we now know both HR/Last were town, I was interested in seeing the reactions to their exchange early on. RE comes out of it feeling town-y overall to me. I liked the quiet confidence when they got pushed by multiple people, plus I like them weighing in on HR/Last.
Lngrr stuff - +town on tom/Chris the most for thinking about why Lngr would claim. Not too sure on what to think of DV slot yet - I like the boldness, but not sure if that is AI at all.
People I'm kinda interested in when I'm reading the next couple pages - Cantrip/Tubba.
I will be assessing prods this afternoon (~5 hours from now).
With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is May 30 at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
Why kill Last? I know nk analysis is probably unproductive at this stage, but I can’t help coming back to it...
It’s wine but it just doesn’t make sense.
If Last was vigged then Rod looks pretty bad. Is it possible for town to have that much killing power?
@Thousand Winds: I learned a long time ago not to care about people voting me. If they have exceptionally bad reasoning I'll mention it, but there's nothing interesting for me in a couple of people finding me scummy, and it doesn't tell me much about their alignment - natural bias makes it harder to analyze a vote on yourself than on anyone else.
Hm. You aren't wrong, to a degree, it just felt like an unnatural over-correction to avoid it as much as you did.
Talk to me about the reads I listed in post #2054, outside of yourself obviously, are there any town reads or scum reads you strongly disagree with? Why?
Not exactly. I disagree with some, but I wouldn't say strongly.
I would love to find a likely wolf. I'm not going to hold back on a strong scum read, but I'm not going to make one up when I don't have one yet. That's why I'm on the fringes - I'm circling until I find something to latch onto.
Got back. Read through the last 6 or so pages that I missed.
First things first: unvote vote shinichi
1. Chris's "catch" is a reasonable start. It's not a solid scumlock by itself - town do indeed contradict themselves sometimes - but it's better than most other things we have at this point.
2. Good information potential on this kill; a scum flip tells us a lot about Chris, DV and Last. I think a town flip tells us somewhat less.
Point 1 is less relevant now; it's more of an aggregate of not feeling good about Shin's posts.
Point 2 is still relevant; I do think it is a high-info flip.
Idk man he just seems like shin to me what haven't you liked slash how is it different from town shin slash why isnt this just you making an easy push?
Sorry, wanted to get another 10 pages in before my flight, but I managed 3. Phone posting so forgive readability.
On Cantrip - I got the impression in the first 10 pages they were a bit passive and sitting back. E.g. “someone else can be on the throne” I quite liked their pop in later on. I disagree with a couple of the questions/points but I like they’re probing and engaging with multiple people. Town-lean for Cantrip.
I like some of KJ’s points so far, but I really dislike their progression on RE. After the prod on RE being passive, the hedging on their RE read doesn’t read as townie to me.
Also:
Unvote
Haven’t caught up to why Rod is voting Sir Chris yet, but I don’t find him particularly scummy so far.
I suppose the rth option is im wrong on vaimes. That has technically happened once... iirc trigger happy where he killed me n1 before i could figure him out
But even then "only used one vote" is a garbage reason, "cant be 3 town on me" is a garbage premise, and that rod clear seems weak AF especially in light of a (town?) night vig
TBF this has happened to me alot, because i've literally lost to scum vaimes before because i mis read him.
Tbh Tom I am just not willing to engage you this game any longer. I will be re-reading with scrutiny but you are not nearly good enough at mafia to act as if I am a crazy person. Thank you, next.
Pretty sure we shouldn't be saying "hey your bad at this game, so i refuse to listen to you". Thats not how you defend yourself when your doing something that could be scumy.
@Shin
In your opinion, Last was the NK, but he looked pretty mislynchable yesterday. Does that move the needle for you? Do you think Last was onto something?
Knowing my brother, it's quite possible. He's quite good at catching scum despite what others say about him. I've never really seen him mislynched or shot at by town killing. Which gives me the reason to believe he was the scum kill.
I think Kamikaze is pretty likely to just be a wolf here. I think the way he entered this day phase, with multiple votes on him felt a little too calm and collected, like he's intentionally trying to seem unbothered by it - but there's been zero attempt to figure out why people are voting him, or delve into the alignment of those players really, and it just doesn't feel like a natural response to me.
Maybe if I have some time I'll do some meta diving and see if this level of detachment is a usual thing for him, but it felt jarring when not a lot else has jumped out at me.
I think the game makes a lot more sense if one of Rhand or Shinichi is a wolf. I don't...really understand why Grapefruit was lynched over Rhand in particular. Rhand dying fulfils a stark win condition, and was significantly less active than Grape was. Maybe it's just an oddity in how I approach the game, but I'll always dig my heels in against lynching someone that posts almost 200 times on day one. I feel like if Rhand was town, he'd have been the shrug lynch of choice and wolves would have supported it, since they could push it as being Starks going for their win con, "had to get a lynch of some kind", etc.
I dunno. I wish I'd actually been in the game when that swing was happening to get a better feel for the flow of the wagons, re-reading it doesn't quite have the same finger on the pulse.
I can't speak for the unbothered part because thats literally me in a nutshell, I don't really get to phased by votes on me. I am mroe concerned on how he barely reacted at all to their being 2 deaths, as if eh didnt care. I however agree though that hes not really doing much to figure out why he has to votes or any form of defense coming out of him.
TBF I had no choice, i was forced to be apart of the lynch because I was at work when he got hammered. So I could not react to his claim at all, I actually liked his claim. I would have possbily unvoted if given the chance.
Point 1 is less relevant now; it's more of an aggregate of not feeling good about Shin's posts.
Point 2 is still relevant; I do think it is a high-info flip.
Unless you think i am scum there shouldnt be a reason to vote me though.
Why kill Last? I know nk analysis is probably unproductive at this stage, but I can’t help coming back to it...
It’s wine but it just doesn’t make sense.
If Last was vigged then Rod looks pretty bad. Is it possible for town to have that much killing power?
how so? Did Rod mention if he could shoot both at night and during the day?
Shin claims that he doesn't react to votes, but most of his posts have been reactions to votes on him. Here for example, he immediately comes out to question my vote (with poor reasoning - I didn't say I don't think he's scum. I do think he's scum.)
I think that gave me a good idea for how to describe what feels off about Shinichi. I don't feel that he's trying to find scum, or persuade others to vote for his scumreads; I feel that he's trying to convince people that he's town.
Point 1 is less relevant now; it's more of an aggregate of not feeling good about Shin's posts.
Point 2 is still relevant; I do think it is a high-info flip.
Unless you think i am scum there shouldnt be a reason to vote me though.
Why kill Last? I know nk analysis is probably unproductive at this stage, but I can’t help coming back to it...
It’s wine but it just doesn’t make sense.
If Last was vigged then Rod looks pretty bad. Is it possible for town to have that much killing power?
how so? Did Rod mention if he could shoot both at night and during the day?
Not that I recall, but is it plausible for town to have a dayvig and a nightvig? Seems like a lot of town killing power.
Shin claims that he doesn't react to votes, but most of his posts have been reactions to votes on him. Here for example, he immediately comes out to question my vote (with poor reasoning - I didn't say I don't think he's scum. I do think he's scum.)
I think that gave me a good idea for how to describe what feels off about Shinichi. I don't feel that he's trying to find scum, or persuade others to vote for his scumreads; I feel that he's trying to convince people that he's town.
second paragraph is the first good reason ive seen on scumshin tbh
Will go look at iso when i can convince myself to read some shin posts
1053, why do you say in 2027 that there's at least 3 scum on Grape's wagon?
I have gotten a lot of little scum pings from Shin's posts, but I'm not sure I can articulate why quite yet, especially since I missed a bunch of D1 posts, so hold my feet to the fire if I don't follow up on this soon.
Killjoy, Re: RE, I did a Thing, and so RE's town. I'm still leaving it at that for the time being.
This post is insufficient, and I apologize. Multiple high posters being dead and town will hopefully help me become a productive part of this game.
@Cantrip: Why is them being town helpful? Would it have been less helpful if they had been scum?
Where did I say that them being town was helpful? It's helpful to me because now I have two perspectives that I feel like I can trust. It would have been more helpful if they were scum, but I'll take a start to a town block if I can't get confirmed scum. This question feels really odd. What are you getting at?
When you are not sure where to go, safe to go with a person you are pretty sure is town.
Chris, Cantrip, RE is my sort of short list. I am having a hard time engaging on what is going on. I kind of like Shini's mindset from the last page. He feels solvey. tom, I don't actually know.
Kami, I am trying to read as someone who subjectively reads kamis tone as wolf typically.
No offense but I'm like, 3 for 3 on my "deliberately voting a not-scumread" scumtell. Watch and be amazed as it's about to be 4 for 4.
I was gonna write a huge wall about how delusional Chris in regards to how he reads me but I don't really want that slapfight, since it's a song and dance we've no doubt done before. A good king reigns in his petty tendencies.
And he's probably town. I feel pretty confident that I have the power/sway to utterly destroy him were we to 1v1, and I don't think he's so inept at reading the room that he wouldn't be able to notice.
I will be assessing prods this afternoon (~5 hours from now).
With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is May 30 at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
Actually, I'm tempted to push the Chris thing because wagon stalling after me + 2 townreads voting him is very Hmm, but then again I think scum would be hesitant to push there in all worlds.
Dead Kami wagon having two townies on it is also noted.
I wish I had an ability that murdered and flipped everyone abstaining.
I cant get through the shin iso but i at least confirmed there's some amount of telling people thats how he is, or just stating his stances in a pretty showy way.
Also more talk about last being the nightkill than i remembered/read originally.
Feeling a little better on kami. A little worse on shin.
tom, as Court Jester, I would like you to dazzle me.
im not sure i have anything dazzling
Im medium happy with my kj vote right now.
What youre saying about chris reading the room i think applies even moreso to johnny? Idk not currently interested in killing either
I read tubbas iso and got bored.
Rod slot seems like a problem for later
1053 is
Hunger exists
tom, as Court Jester, I would like you to dazzle me.
im not sure i have anything dazzling
Im medium happy with my kj vote right now.
What youre saying about chris reading the room i think applies even moreso to johnny? Idk not currently interested in killing either
I read tubbas iso and got bored.
Rod slot seems like a problem for later
1053 is
Hunger exists
But like i dont think it takes too much reading beteeen the lines to take that as the factual statement im making that hes literally never getting vaimes lynched on that logic. and that i, as town, think chris is a very reasonable vote rn and as such see no reason to look for scum on his wagon (and he hasnt given one either)
Im still at "wait and see" on chris mostly. Theres been some pings, including this, but hes barely started playing.
What up
I've fully caught up and read every non-Last post, and like. I think this feels a lot like a "sort by postcount, collect win" game to me.
Lastwhisper 448
D_V + Thousand_Winds 214
tomsloger 213
RE1031 181
Grapefruit21 171
Vaimes 153
Shinichi 113
Killjoy 76
Sir Chris 73
LnGrrrR 70
Highroller 58
KamikazeArchon 50
Rhand 46
Rodemy + xequalsy 43
Tubba Fett 26
1053nm 26
Hunger 25
Gentleman Johnny + Cobalt 22
Cantripmancer 15
Green are confirmed town (to me, at the least). Blue are decently strong town reads. Purple are Stark claims, and are off table for me for the time being due to alt win condition. I'll place faction win con above that if push comes to shove, but it's only day two, and there's other wolves to find. Uncolored are kind of indecisive reads, where there's things that make me lean town, but it's just not enough to bump them up to the tier above. I think there's probably at least 2 wolves in the orange names, which almost feels too easy, but when town reading a lot of the more active players, sometimes it just happens that way, especially if D1 was mostly town wagons and wolves were content with it.
Maybe if I have some time I'll do some meta diving and see if this level of detachment is a usual thing for him, but it felt jarring when not a lot else has jumped out at me.
I think the game makes a lot more sense if one of Rhand or Shinichi is a wolf. I don't...really understand why Grapefruit was lynched over Rhand in particular. Rhand dying fulfils a stark win condition, and was significantly less active than Grape was. Maybe it's just an oddity in how I approach the game, but I'll always dig my heels in against lynching someone that posts almost 200 times on day one. I feel like if Rhand was town, he'd have been the shrug lynch of choice and wolves would have supported it, since they could push it as being Starks going for their win con, "had to get a lynch of some kind", etc.
I dunno. I wish I'd actually been in the game when that swing was happening to get a better feel for the flow of the wagons, re-reading it doesn't quite have the same finger on the pulse.
Hm. You aren't wrong, to a degree, it just felt like an unnatural over-correction to avoid it as much as you did.
Talk to me about the reads I listed in post #2054, outside of yourself obviously, are there any town reads or scum reads you strongly disagree with? Why?
Probably gonna just comment on the main wagons yesterday for now and go from there, but if you guys have something that you want me to look over, I’ll try and do that too.
(Back to rereading)
Since we now know both HR/Last were town, I was interested in seeing the reactions to their exchange early on. RE comes out of it feeling town-y overall to me. I liked the quiet confidence when they got pushed by multiple people, plus I like them weighing in on HR/Last.
Lngrr stuff - +town on tom/Chris the most for thinking about why Lngr would claim. Not too sure on what to think of DV slot yet - I like the boldness, but not sure if that is AI at all.
People I'm kinda interested in when I'm reading the next couple pages - Cantrip/Tubba.
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Staff-Margaery Tyrell
Sir Chris (3): Vaimes, LnGrrrR, XequalsY
KamikazeArchon (2): Thousand_Winds, Vaimes*
Killjoy (1): tomsloger
Vaimes (1): Sir Chris
Not Voting (10): Hunger, 1053nm, Cantripmancer, Shinichi, Gentleman Johnny, Rhand, KamikazeArchon, RE1031, Killjoy, Tubba Fett
I will be assessing prods this afternoon (~5 hours from now).
With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is May 30 at 1700 MST.
A reminder about Iron Throne support: All support must be done via PM (either MTGS or discord), and can be changed as many times as you wish up until twilight is announced.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Id take posts too...
It’s wine but it just doesn’t make sense.
If Last was vigged then Rod looks pretty bad. Is it possible for town to have that much killing power?
I would love to find a likely wolf. I'm not going to hold back on a strong scum read, but I'm not going to make one up when I don't have one yet. That's why I'm on the fringes - I'm circling until I find something to latch onto.
Lngr is right though. I should be voting.
vote shinichi
Point 2 is still relevant; I do think it is a high-info flip.
Idk man he just seems like shin to me what haven't you liked slash how is it different from town shin slash why isnt this just you making an easy push?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
On Cantrip - I got the impression in the first 10 pages they were a bit passive and sitting back. E.g. “someone else can be on the throne” I quite liked their pop in later on. I disagree with a couple of the questions/points but I like they’re probing and engaging with multiple people. Town-lean for Cantrip.
I like some of KJ’s points so far, but I really dislike their progression on RE. After the prod on RE being passive, the hedging on their RE read doesn’t read as townie to me.
Also:
Unvote
Haven’t caught up to why Rod is voting Sir Chris yet, but I don’t find him particularly scummy so far.
TBF this has happened to me alot, because i've literally lost to scum vaimes before because i mis read him.
Pretty sure we shouldn't be saying "hey your bad at this game, so i refuse to listen to you". Thats not how you defend yourself when your doing something that could be scumy.
Knowing my brother, it's quite possible. He's quite good at catching scum despite what others say about him. I've never really seen him mislynched or shot at by town killing. Which gives me the reason to believe he was the scum kill.
I can't speak for the unbothered part because thats literally me in a nutshell, I don't really get to phased by votes on me. I am mroe concerned on how he barely reacted at all to their being 2 deaths, as if eh didnt care. I however agree though that hes not really doing much to figure out why he has to votes or any form of defense coming out of him.
TBF I had no choice, i was forced to be apart of the lynch because I was at work when he got hammered. So I could not react to his claim at all, I actually liked his claim. I would have possbily unvoted if given the chance.
Unless you think i am scum there shouldnt be a reason to vote me though.
how so? Did Rod mention if he could shoot both at night and during the day?
I think that gave me a good idea for how to describe what feels off about Shinichi. I don't feel that he's trying to find scum, or persuade others to vote for his scumreads; I feel that he's trying to convince people that he's town.
Not that I recall, but is it plausible for town to have a dayvig and a nightvig? Seems like a lot of town killing power.
I’ll be around tonight. Shockingly there doesn’t seem to be much going on.
Will go look at iso when i can convince myself to read some shin posts
1053, why do you say in 2027 that there's at least 3 scum on Grape's wagon?
I have gotten a lot of little scum pings from Shin's posts, but I'm not sure I can articulate why quite yet, especially since I missed a bunch of D1 posts, so hold my feet to the fire if I don't follow up on this soon.
Killjoy, Re: RE, I did a Thing, and so RE's town. I'm still leaving it at that for the time being.
This post is insufficient, and I apologize. Multiple high posters being dead and town will hopefully help me become a productive part of this game.
When you are not sure where to go, safe to go with a person you are pretty sure is town.
Chris, Cantrip, RE is my sort of short list. I am having a hard time engaging on what is going on. I kind of like Shini's mindset from the last page. He feels solvey. tom, I don't actually know.
Kami, I am trying to read as someone who subjectively reads kamis tone as wolf typically.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Shame
The GJ way path to no lynching:
No offense but I'm like, 3 for 3 on my "deliberately voting a not-scumread" scumtell. Watch and be amazed as it's about to be 4 for 4.
I was gonna write a huge wall about how delusional Chris in regards to how he reads me but I don't really want that slapfight, since it's a song and dance we've no doubt done before. A good king reigns in his petty tendencies.
And he's probably town. I feel pretty confident that I have the power/sway to utterly destroy him were we to 1v1, and I don't think he's so inept at reading the room that he wouldn't be able to notice.
Dead Kami wagon having two townies on it is also noted.
I wish I had an ability that murdered and flipped everyone abstaining.
Think I'm gonna keep this chair.
Also more talk about last being the nightkill than i remembered/read originally.
Feeling a little better on kami. A little worse on shin.
Im medium happy with my kj vote right now.
What youre saying about chris reading the room i think applies even moreso to johnny? Idk not currently interested in killing either
I read tubbas iso and got bored.
Rod slot seems like a problem for later
1053 is
Hunger exists
Chris is serious. GJ seems to be going for something more jovial.