KA relying on defenses before flips happen to make a judgment call is a bit of a leap of faith and also there will be problems if you try to push me at any point with that.
SC feeling town from this, mostly because I just played a game with him as a wolf.
Not really metaing, as I doubt that kind of think can give a solid read on SC, but I do like his tone and his arrogance about the last game and his rightness.
Just saying you lot already murdered one person Chris said not to and that ended bad. Maybe High Chris isnt so crazy.
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Also I hate yo be called arrogant. "Accurately portraying my skill and player history" isn't arrogant
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A disappointing flip and Night. The death of innocents tells us far less than the death of the guilty. But it does tell us some things - a tightening of probabilities.
I will take my lock town read for coming in cold and talking yall out of LW. Vig was a little too sticky, but not an awful shot, even if I don't agree with it.
One of my biggest qualms with the game is that my primary alignment win condition and my personal faction win condition seem like they could be at odds in certain ways the game could unfold. It'd be straight up bastard for their to be multiple wolves in the two factions I'm linked to I think, as it'd make winning the game and achieving that alt win condition near impossible.
I think my strategy for now at least is to assume there's minimal if any wolves in those factions and focus elsewhere. If we get down to probably 1-2 wolves left I'll reluctantly turn my attention to the two factions I'm trying to keep alive, since imo the alt win conditions are a "try to achieve if you can, but not at the expense of your alignment win con" type of thing.
so speaking of factiions, what exactly do you think about tom suggesting that atleast 1 mafia is in every faction. Atleast i believe tom stated something of the sorts.
I pretty strongly think 1053nm is town, especially if he's as new of a player as he seems.
LnGrrrR is also probably town for willingly rocking the boat with his no faction claim.
Vaimes is probably town for reasons I have trouble fully articulating. Lack of guile or something.
Actually that reminds me of something I was considering as I read through the thread - there felt like there was a roughly even amount of public support for Vaimes and Sir Chris for the throne, but Vaimes won. Does that mean anything? My initial inclination is that it makes Sir Chris slightly more likely to be town, as his team would have been able to force that through most likely. I also think it makes Vaimes slightly more likely town just because he feels like the type of player who wouldn't want the spotlight as a wolf. Maybe there's nothing there, but it could be something. If someone wants to go through the thread and tally up the king support numbers, maybe there could be meaningful data there.
I guess I'll just come out and say the Starks are one of the factions I have a vested interest in keeping alive, as well as a heavy suspicion that there's not many wolves in there if any - so that means Tom, Lastwhisper (RIP), Shinichi and Killjoy are probably off the docket for me for a day or two. If there is a wolf in that cluster, I think it's Shinichi, but it's entirely possible it's clean.
Cantripmancer claimed "effectively a cop check" on RE, which... probably makes RE more likely to be town in the balance of things. I think it probably tilts the needle slightly town on Cantrip too, but he's someone that I had vaguely wolfy feelings from when ISO'ing him - similar to Kamikaze (which I'll get to more in depth), I got a kind of "asking questions he doesn't really care about the answers to" vibe.
Rodemy is probably town on the back of his role, and is likely self resolving anyways. I do want to direct his KP more as a town though rather than him unilaterally firing into whoever strikes his fancy. If we can get a second lynch, do it, as it is twice the town controlled KP that people have to justify reasoning for.
I lean wolf slightly on Rhand, but not so much because of anything he did, but for gamestate related reasons. He was a wagon near EoD, the Starks had full desire to have him dead, and yet the wagon pivoted onto Grapefruit instead. (I should note that my win condition is unrelated to the Stark win condition. I do not care if Rhand lives or dies, I only care about his alignment, not faction). Maybe there's something there - I feel like he could have quite easily been the lynch if wolves wanted him to be given the support of a chunk of the game for non-alignment reasons, and the support of even more players for 'we have to get a lynch' reasons. Idk, I'll re-read that section again, and read Rhand's iso in a vacuum too today. It's on the docket.
I have zero read or recollection of Gentleman Johnny, Hunger, or Tubba Fett. I think there's decently likely odds to be a wolf or two in there just by virtue of having a decent chunk of town reads, but no strong feelings at all on who it could be.
I do think Kamikaze is my most likely wolf. There's an element of "over-explaining" to some of his reads, where other reads feel like they're exploring the possibility for the thread to go that way. He's also one of the only people on the Grape wagon I'm not town reading, so seems like a reasonable place to start.
Didn't even realize 1053 was a new player, but as of right now I have to agree hes leaning towards being town for now.
I had no choice in my faction being outted it was done by wisp and toms without my knowledge lol
Can you give more info towards the vaimes read? Its quite hollow because being king doesn't just make him town so rather hear more about his slot.
I'm not sure if it has any meaning, because didn't chris come into the thread wanting to be the king. While vaimes was recommended by a few players to be king i had switched my recommendation to him after initally suggesting DV as a king. TBF vaimes did not want the spotlight it was kinda forced upon him, and if he had declined it the situation would have looked very poor for him. You think to yourself why would someone decline the option to be a king unless they're scum afraid of something.
I aint sure if clean is the right word to use because we havent found scum yet to prove any stats about the factions. There seems to be alot invested towards these factional win cons which means I don't think any 2 mafia share the same factional win con. Thats just my observation based on balance.
The cantrip situation is still quite weird for me and not sure how it gives you a town read towards Cantrip. The only thing that comes to mind is lovers or maybe neighbors.
I didn't care about my win con at all, so even knowing gf had so-called gain the same win con as me I probably wouldn't have changed my opinion. His claim however seemed good to me and I thought if anything he was tpr if not town.
What do you think of wisp interactions throughout the game? Do you think it had anything to do with his death?
One of my biggest qualms with the game is that my primary alignment win condition and my personal faction win condition seem like they could be at odds in certain ways the game could unfold. It'd be straight up bastard for their to be multiple wolves in the two factions I'm linked to I think, as it'd make winning the game and achieving that alt win condition near impossible.
I think my strategy for now at least is to assume there's minimal if any wolves in those factions and focus elsewhere. If we get down to probably 1-2 wolves left I'll reluctantly turn my attention to the two factions I'm trying to keep alive, since imo the alt win conditions are a "try to achieve if you can, but not at the expense of your alignment win con" type of thing.
so speaking of factiions, what exactly do you think about tom suggesting that atleast 1 mafia is in every faction. Atleast i believe tom stated something of the sorts.
Strongly doubt that's a thing. It's either random or there's some factions with 0 wolves and some factions with multiple wolves. Getting clears on the entire faction if one wolf flips in it would be too gamebreaking.
My alt win condition is almost impossible to achieve if there's more than one wolf in the two factions I'm tied to though, so it's something I'm struggling with. I feel like it /should/ mean the Starks and Nights Watch should have less wolves in them than you'd expect or I can't really accomplish my alt win con, but it also feels kind of bastardy for me to be able to clear a large chunk of the game based on that.
So, I dunno.
I don't like feeling like I'm hindered from fully scum hunting if I want to accomplish my alt win condition, and maybe this just isn't the kind of game I should have signed up for, but from a design perspective it's an interesting puzzle to solve.
My current plan is to try and find wolves in the 'other' factions and put off sorting You/Tom/KJ/Night's Watch members until later in the game/when the gamestate doesn't make sense anymore.
My Vaimes read is kind of complicated, and is heavily reliant on like, second-hand meta. I'm pretty close with people that know him very well, even if I don't have much experience with him myself, and my understanding is he has pretty significant differences in his town and scum play - being king in itself doesn't make him town, but I think the way he's rolling with it and reveling in the attention does make him town. I'm also just not feeling any kind of agenda in his posts, it's very much a what you see is what you get kind of thing, and that reads pure.
I don't think it's super common for wolves to tie themselves to a claim like that on D1 under no pressure, that A) removes that player from ever being in their mislynch pool and B) limits their ability to fake claim in any fashion. Independent of Cantrip's town clear of RE, I think he leans towards the wolfy side of things slightly, given the number of town reads I have, but hard clearing someone like that on day one just isn't something I see wolves do often.
Oh, and I guess I'll put this out there, since I inevitably accrue a lot of town reads - I do not want to be on the iron throne. It does nothing for my role, nor does it do anything for my alt win condition. I guess I wouldn't mind a double vote, but I'm capable of using big boy words and utilizing slow game phases to convince people of who to vote for without needing to strong arm it with vote numbers. Hopefully!
And I'm gonna be real - I have read zero of Wisps posts and plan to read zero of Wisps posts. He posted 450 times on D1, and my understanding is that it's largely incomprehensible to try and sift through. I don't really feel comfortable speculating on why he was killed for a variety of reasons, but I sincerely doubt it was based on read accuracy or interactions.
Although whichever was the mafia kill was uh. Perplexing, regardless.
No, im not saying anything similar to "one scum per faction"
That would be ridiculous...
But
I do expect something like an even distribution. Basically for any faction of 4, 1 scum is more likely than 0 or 2. Which frankly is true just by statistics anyway...
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
A disappointing flip and Night. The death of innocents tells us far less than the death of the guilty. But it does tell us some things - a tightening of probabilities.
@Winds, honestly, I wouldnt ask you to read threw the garbage fire that was D1.
@Sir Chris lost the throne because he ghosted near end of Day. Not saying it was his fault, but Vaimes was more active.
@Kami, as I noted early day 1, I place a lot of faith in Chris's abilities. So if he isn't hunting scum and finding them, it likely means he is scum himself.
@GJ, read denied!
I reread the LnGrrrR mechanical read stuff and did not feel good (for reasons I will state below) but dang he makes a good point about Chris. Like everyone gave off the impression at the beginning of the game that Chris was some master game solver/unstoppable force and I have seen nothing that supports that in this game.
Show of hands type thing here, how many people unlock an extra ability by being on the throne?
Yes, I gain my ability be being on the throne and it's not revealed what it is until I'm on the throne.
Some thoughts about the early game looking back:
—LnGrrR voted for due to “no faction” claim, he never clarified that he was part of “the realm” which he would have no reason not to do if he was actually no faction. We know grapefruit was town on that wagon, and I’m pretty confident DV is town, HR is fairly neutral/possible town lean, LW is town, and Rhand is IDK. Overall wagon seems pretty townie and we know “the realm” exists (sorry Grape) so LnGrrrR looks pretty scummy #368. Also, #503, it 100% does not say “none.” If he was the realm, he would have said “the realm”; he didn’t, it was a bluff and this is why Grape attacked LnGrrR so much—because he knew what no faction actually looked like (#515). But I guess it could be redacted? But he has to have some information about who he is
—Sir Chris comes to LnGrrRs defense fairly strongly and #424
—LnGrrR keyed in on GF as scum #421; If LnG is scum, could point to working with Rhand or LW to try to confuse wagons. I could see scumchat orchestrating a “catch” by Rhand. Or maybe it’s just a town wagon
—I don’t necessarily accept Shadows change to text as a clear for LnGrrrR because he could very well be using that vague language for the sake of including “The realm” since it doesn’t really fall under a house or faction
—I want a full claim from LnGrrR in terms or I want to lynch him
—Killjoy was really intense about supporting LnGrrR and dissing grape #525 and many other posts—could be team with LnGrrR; Tom did say Starks have scum
—KA jumped on RE’s Grapefruit vote with little evidence
I think RE (?) pointed out during the day when Grape and LW were lead wagons that the lack of movement likely indicated that scum were happy with how it was. The sudden movement to Rhand which then reversed back to Grape makes Rhand look all the more scummy imo.
Grapefruit21 (10): LnGrrrR, 1053nm, Shinichi, RE1031, Lastwhisper, Vaimes, D_V, KamikazeArchon, Highroller, Killjoy
--there are at least 3 mafia on this mislynch. DV I cleared based on his interactions with Grape, Killjoy had a vested interest in voting Rhand which he was initially voting but switched last minute to get the lynch which is NAI, KA seems like someone to look into more as does Shin. LnG is who I feel should be pressured most today as should Rhand.
Rhand (1): tomsloger
Lastwhisper (2): Rodemy, Tubba Fett
Shinichi (2): Sir Chris, Cantripmancer
Highroller (2): Gentleman Johnny, Rhand
KamikazeArchon (1): Grapefruit21
Hunger never voted.
Not sure if youve seen or read the flavor source, but varys (grapes character) *frequently* says stuff like i only serve the realm.
Dont think that means factionless, it just makes sense as varys' faction
@1053, how the heck could I claim I was part of "the Realm" when I have no idea what that is? There's no mention of it whatsoever in my role, just Factions: None. You really think you know better than me what my own role PM states? that's the hill you are willing to die on?
Good luck getting a full claim from me.
Also, I maintain Grape was acting scummy as heck. Like... he could join any faction. He had a way to freaking prove I was telling the truth! But he was probably afraid of losing his chance to gain an easy wincon. *shrug* I guess he will just have to hope we can give him the normal one.
Also, I maintain Grape was acting scummy as heck. Like... he could join any faction. He had a way to freaking prove I was telling the truth! But he was probably afraid of losing his chance to gain an easy wincon. *shrug* I guess he will just have to hope we can give him the normal one.
while i agree theres some ways he could have used that role that were more "pro town", i think grape probably made the objectively right play targetting me since he knew i had multiple sets of wincons and trusted me to play towards them
@Tom, yeah but... did he even share your other wincon? I don't know, I feel if I had an ability that could prove if someone was lying, and I thought that person was scummy, I would use it in that fashion.
One of my biggest qualms with the game is that my primary alignment win condition and my personal faction win condition seem like they could be at odds in certain ways the game could unfold. It'd be straight up bastard for their to be multiple wolves in the two factions I'm linked to I think, as it'd make winning the game and achieving that alt win condition near impossible.
I think my strategy for now at least is to assume there's minimal if any wolves in those factions and focus elsewhere. If we get down to probably 1-2 wolves left I'll reluctantly turn my attention to the two factions I'm trying to keep alive, since imo the alt win conditions are a "try to achieve if you can, but not at the expense of your alignment win con" type of thing.
so speaking of factiions, what exactly do you think about tom suggesting that atleast 1 mafia is in every faction. Atleast i believe tom stated something of the sorts.
Strongly doubt that's a thing. It's either random or there's some factions with 0 wolves and some factions with multiple wolves. Getting clears on the entire faction if one wolf flips in it would be too gamebreaking.
My alt win condition is almost impossible to achieve if there's more than one wolf in the two factions I'm tied to though, so it's something I'm struggling with. I feel like it /should/ mean the Starks and Nights Watch should have less wolves in them than you'd expect or I can't really accomplish my alt win con, but it also feels kind of bastardy for me to be able to clear a large chunk of the game based on that.
So, I dunno.
I don't like feeling like I'm hindered from fully scum hunting if I want to accomplish my alt win condition, and maybe this just isn't the kind of game I should have signed up for, but from a design perspective it's an interesting puzzle to solve.
My current plan is to try and find wolves in the 'other' factions and put off sorting You/Tom/KJ/Night's Watch members until later in the game/when the gamestate doesn't make sense anymore.
Hmm ya honestly the whole 1 person being wolf in a faction does sound kinda game breaking, which is why I probably don't believe it to the fullest. I am sure in some situations that may be the case but not all. It kinda depends on what your alternate win condition is, because it could be used to find scum in my faction or the nightwatchers which is helpful.
I never expected alternate win conditions, if I see them i expect it tied to like 1 person not every player in the game so it changes how to handle the gmae.
That plan does sound better than trying to break the game haha.
My Vaimes read is kind of complicated, and is heavily reliant on like, second-hand meta. I'm pretty close with people that know him very well, even if I don't have much experience with him myself, and my understanding is he has pretty significant differences in his town and scum play - being king in itself doesn't make him town, but I think the way he's rolling with it and reveling in the attention does make him town. I'm also just not feeling any kind of agenda in his posts, it's very much a what you see is what you get kind of thing, and that reads pure.
My only read on vaimes is based on how he looks at me in particular and the whole situation with him revaluating my slot. This has allowed me to seem him as town, as long as he doesn't flake. It still would have to pull his weight, i agree though in that i can't sense an agenda coming from him. I just wanted more detail on your read because you jsut came into the thread so was super curious.
I don't think it's super common for wolves to tie themselves to a claim like that on D1 under no pressure, that A) removes that player from ever being in their mislynch pool and B) limits their ability to fake claim in any fashion. Independent of Cantrip's town clear of RE, I think he leans towards the wolfy side of things slightly, given the number of town reads I have, but hard clearing someone like that on day one just isn't something I see wolves do often.
I consider Cantrip quite a mechanical player, so even as scum its something I could see him doing based on my previous knowledge of how he plays. The issue I have is with how RE reacted to it. Also the very limited info he has given us about it witch i find super sketch. I don't think its rare to clear someone like that as scum because bussing oor powerwolfing is something thats also common for various reasons. That's why for now cantrip will remain a scum read for me and once i fully catch up i may be placing a vote there.
Oh, and I guess I'll put this out there, since I inevitably accrue a lot of town reads - I do not want to be on the iron throne. It does nothing for my role, nor does it do anything for my alt win condition. I guess I wouldn't mind a double vote, but I'm capable of using big boy words and utilizing slow game phases to convince people of who to vote for without needing to strong arm it with vote numbers. Hopefully!
I like this alot, i sense no hidden agenda whatsoever. However it does make me want to put you on the throne lmfao. This slot is defaintly town for sure.
And I'm gonna be real - I have read zero of Wisps posts and plan to read zero of Wisps posts. He posted 450 times on D1, and my understanding is that it's largely incomprehensible to try and sift through. I don't really feel comfortable speculating on why he was killed for a variety of reasons, but I sincerely doubt it was based on read accuracy or interactions.
Although whichever was the mafia kill was uh. Perplexing, regardless.
Honestly thats my brother for you, his post count tends to always be on the high one. His game solving skills are crazy which leads me to believe he was the mafia kill but im biased lol.
I'm confused about tom. He keeps saying "Well, my faction is big so there might be scum in it" then doesn't talk much in our chat. I was actually thinking that his pushing that there's a scum in our faction as a means to suspect us is a little wonky. He's not... doing anything to try to figure it out he's just saying "well, it's probably true so." What gives?
Cantrip: talk to me about RE. Why is she town?
TBF our chat was mostly dead anyways, we didn't really get far with it. I'm however not using this as a reason to say he can't be scum. I still don't think tom has any agenda when stating atleast 1 scum existed in the factions which is why i still want to believe he is town for that statement.
I also seem to recall you saying you don't find wolves usually attack you - yet here you're saying one of the people attacking you is probably a wolf. Is this just a "manner that they're doing so" thing?
GRapefruit literally called me an idiot. Ie not an attack in mafia terms but on me.
These guys are voting me to "pressure Chris into doing things"
As if town or scum Chris ever needed the help in doing things if he isnt v/la. Just lala reasoning and I refuse to believe that's 3 town.
Need to properly catch up but yeah. Not today.
Most of the game was on V/LA though, so makes sense for others to attack them to get them to be in the game more. I would understand if maybe you were the only one on V/LA but others were as well. Then again I know very little about you as a player, but my understanding is people will poke at anyone regardless of them being on V/LA or not.
I asdume if i was anti stark i wouldnt have been pushing that there isnt more than one in there tbh
Unless i was one of two i guess
Anyway. The fact i was pushing starks yesterday isnt even that notable imo when last and shin were among the main wagons all day. I even think shin is town partially because of his reaction to my setupgaming
And I'm not currently voting kj because hes a stark but rather because his posting in faction chat was showy and PR-hunty
I just despise any shape or form of trying to game the setup or mods. If you really believe that though puts me in a situation where i eithher drop my town read on you cause then I have no other world besides believing thhat KJ has to be scum. Unless I just donn't believe our faction has any scum because I like both KJ and you.
I’m falling behind again because I acfepted a back-to-back cruise to replace a colleague that’s in the hospital and the cruise just started.
I should be able to participate again soon when things calmed down here.
@Shin
In your opinion, Last was the NK, but he looked pretty mislynchable yesterday. Does that move the needle for you? Do you think Last was onto something?
So Vaimes mentioned earlier in this thread that he isn't very familiar with me, but Vaimes in last game's scum chat seemed to know me well enough when it came to plotting my demise. Vaimes knows me pretty well from our many games over the years, and I won't believe any protest to the contrary.
Secondly you were talking about how a town LW means Shin is less suspicious and I am less town for suspecting Shin, and I don't think that's sound reasoning as it assumes LW has knowledge we don't, which I think his posts in regards to Shin seemed to me to prove otherwise. He was not sound in his reasoning and went back and forth a lot. So I don't appreciate the small shade you threw at me considering it depends on Shin being town which is a read you decided to make more likely based off another person's read which isn't independently verified.
Hopefully that makes more sense, since I am off pain killers.
I guess my point about me being on v/la is rather moot, as I am now off my pain killers and while busy with work as per normal I am not in the hospital or recovering from surgery anymore, so all signs of 'oh no Chris isn't here' should pretty naturally disappear, and my stock in the game will rise because I am me and I am awesome.
So I guess I will just give up on the faction aspect of this game and say the reason why I voted Vaimes of the three is because I in no way believe my wagon is pure and Lngrr is unlikely to be mafia due to the naive way he talked about his faction circumstance and Rodemy and I are aligned and given the way he ranted like a madperson in faction chat about me I am less likely to believe he is scum than my other faction person could potentially be, but it is just the three of us so I am also inclined to not faction meta game scum counts as of now. I was trying to be a bit sneaky but I don't have the time to bother with faction stuff I guess.
Everyone seems very convinced on Vaimes, when I don't see him having really done anything.
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Hey everyone, I told Shadow before I replaced in, but I'm V/LA with limited posting from the 21st-29th. It's not ideal since D2 seems to end on the 30th, but I'll try to phone post whilst I'm away and participate.
I vaguely was skimming the thread whilst stuff happened, but I'll try and catch up today and tomorrow before I head off.
I was about to explain my stance on scum within factions again but then i realized tgat would involve explaining the concept of statistics to shin so...
Nah
Both highroller and last seem like silly nightkills to me in most worlds.
But especially last, who was fairly mislynchable and likely to stay that way considering he couldnt be checked or anything. Not to mention that his inability to adapt to these phaselengths is extremely pro scum...
So im assuming thats a vig shot? Wouldnt mind a vig claim to help figuring out rod slot, but not today prolly
-you dont know vaimes like you think you do
-You need to read him again without the painkillers
-you're scum and are currently in the process of outing yourself over a vaimes push
I suppose the rth option is im wrong on vaimes. That has technically happened once... iirc trigger happy where he killed me n1 before i could figure him out
But even then "only used one vote" is a garbage reason, "cant be 3 town on me" is a garbage premise, and that rod clear seems weak AF especially in light of a (town?) night vig
Tbh Tom I am just not willing to engage you this game any longer. I will be re-reading with scrutiny but you are not nearly good enough at mafia to act as if I am a crazy person. Thank you, next.
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Tbh Tom I am just not willing to engage you this game any longer. I will be re-reading with scrutiny but you are not nearly good enough at mafia to act as if I am a crazy person. Thank you, next.
you can just say "you got me i have no legs to stand on for this vaimes push"
Its fine i wont even scumread you for it unless you catch up and still wanna press it for no/bad reasons
I don't understand this sentence.
Not really metaing, as I doubt that kind of think can give a solid read on SC, but I do like his tone and his arrogance about the last game and his rightness.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
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2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Cocky then. I suppose one has a slightly more negative connotation.
Compared to his last wolf, game, it's night and day.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
the words youre looking for, courtesy of kid rock:
"It aint braggin mother****er if you back it up"
@johnny
We'll see
Yet I think Sir Chris is probably town, just wrong.
I think wolves this game are largely trying to just stay out of the way, with the vast majority of active players being town.
.
you can never replace DV >3>
How are you feeling about this game right now?
if this was anyone else i question the vote, but im still iffy on your slot because of that day vig ability you have.
Wheres the emotion? This post is super odd.
How ininformed are you is the real question?
so speaking of factiions, what exactly do you think about tom suggesting that atleast 1 mafia is in every faction. Atleast i believe tom stated something of the sorts.
Didn't even realize 1053 was a new player, but as of right now I have to agree hes leaning towards being town for now.
I had no choice in my faction being outted it was done by wisp and toms without my knowledge lol
Can you give more info towards the vaimes read? Its quite hollow because being king doesn't just make him town so rather hear more about his slot.
I'm not sure if it has any meaning, because didn't chris come into the thread wanting to be the king. While vaimes was recommended by a few players to be king i had switched my recommendation to him after initally suggesting DV as a king. TBF vaimes did not want the spotlight it was kinda forced upon him, and if he had declined it the situation would have looked very poor for him. You think to yourself why would someone decline the option to be a king unless they're scum afraid of something.
I aint sure if clean is the right word to use because we havent found scum yet to prove any stats about the factions. There seems to be alot invested towards these factional win cons which means I don't think any 2 mafia share the same factional win con. Thats just my observation based on balance.
The cantrip situation is still quite weird for me and not sure how it gives you a town read towards Cantrip. The only thing that comes to mind is lovers or maybe neighbors.
I didn't care about my win con at all, so even knowing gf had so-called gain the same win con as me I probably wouldn't have changed my opinion. His claim however seemed good to me and I thought if anything he was tpr if not town.
What do you think of wisp interactions throughout the game? Do you think it had anything to do with his death?
Strongly doubt that's a thing. It's either random or there's some factions with 0 wolves and some factions with multiple wolves. Getting clears on the entire faction if one wolf flips in it would be too gamebreaking.
My alt win condition is almost impossible to achieve if there's more than one wolf in the two factions I'm tied to though, so it's something I'm struggling with. I feel like it /should/ mean the Starks and Nights Watch should have less wolves in them than you'd expect or I can't really accomplish my alt win con, but it also feels kind of bastardy for me to be able to clear a large chunk of the game based on that.
So, I dunno.
I don't like feeling like I'm hindered from fully scum hunting if I want to accomplish my alt win condition, and maybe this just isn't the kind of game I should have signed up for, but from a design perspective it's an interesting puzzle to solve.
My current plan is to try and find wolves in the 'other' factions and put off sorting You/Tom/KJ/Night's Watch members until later in the game/when the gamestate doesn't make sense anymore.
I don't think it's super common for wolves to tie themselves to a claim like that on D1 under no pressure, that A) removes that player from ever being in their mislynch pool and B) limits their ability to fake claim in any fashion. Independent of Cantrip's town clear of RE, I think he leans towards the wolfy side of things slightly, given the number of town reads I have, but hard clearing someone like that on day one just isn't something I see wolves do often.
Although whichever was the mafia kill was uh. Perplexing, regardless.
What emotion were you expecting, and why?
Why do you bring up Rod's vote on Sir Chris but not anyone else's?
@Thousand Winds: I could comment on it but I doubt that would be useful.
That would be ridiculous...
But
I do expect something like an even distribution. Basically for any faction of 4, 1 scum is more likely than 0 or 2. Which frankly is true just by statistics anyway...
The alignment makeup of ones faction should never be clearing or condemning, but it does change the odds by some percentage
For some reasons
Not sure i want clarified atm but would like to lodge that its not adding up right for me rn
replace
I’m sorry shadow.
The most reliable way for me to figure him out is PoE.
I am very tired. Going to bed.
My reads are averageish as town, but thats still much better than hard powerwolfing
But do whatever you want i guess...
I say just leave me alive and hope for the best
So, this was odd. Like seems so overly formal?
I reread the LnGrrrR mechanical read stuff and did not feel good (for reasons I will state below) but dang he makes a good point about Chris. Like everyone gave off the impression at the beginning of the game that Chris was some master game solver/unstoppable force and I have seen nothing that supports that in this game.
Yes, I gain my ability be being on the throne and it's not revealed what it is until I'm on the throne.
Some thoughts about the early game looking back:
—LnGrrR voted for due to “no faction” claim, he never clarified that he was part of “the realm” which he would have no reason not to do if he was actually no faction. We know grapefruit was town on that wagon, and I’m pretty confident DV is town, HR is fairly neutral/possible town lean, LW is town, and Rhand is IDK. Overall wagon seems pretty townie and we know “the realm” exists (sorry Grape) so LnGrrrR looks pretty scummy #368. Also, #503, it 100% does not say “none.” If he was the realm, he would have said “the realm”; he didn’t, it was a bluff and this is why Grape attacked LnGrrR so much—because he knew what no faction actually looked like (#515). But I guess it could be redacted? But he has to have some information about who he is
—Sir Chris comes to LnGrrRs defense fairly strongly and #424
—LnGrrR keyed in on GF as scum #421; If LnG is scum, could point to working with Rhand or LW to try to confuse wagons. I could see scumchat orchestrating a “catch” by Rhand. Or maybe it’s just a town wagon
—I don’t necessarily accept Shadows change to text as a clear for LnGrrrR because he could very well be using that vague language for the sake of including “The realm” since it doesn’t really fall under a house or faction
—I want a full claim from LnGrrR in terms or I want to lynch him
—Killjoy was really intense about supporting LnGrrR and dissing grape #525 and many other posts—could be team with LnGrrR; Tom did say Starks have scum
—KA jumped on RE’s Grapefruit vote with little evidence
I think RE (?) pointed out during the day when Grape and LW were lead wagons that the lack of movement likely indicated that scum were happy with how it was. The sudden movement to Rhand which then reversed back to Grape makes Rhand look all the more scummy imo.
Grapefruit21 (10): LnGrrrR, 1053nm, Shinichi, RE1031, Lastwhisper, Vaimes, D_V, KamikazeArchon, Highroller, Killjoy
--there are at least 3 mafia on this mislynch. DV I cleared based on his interactions with Grape, Killjoy had a vested interest in voting Rhand which he was initially voting but switched last minute to get the lynch which is NAI, KA seems like someone to look into more as does Shin. LnG is who I feel should be pressured most today as should Rhand.
Rhand (1): tomsloger
Lastwhisper (2): Rodemy, Tubba Fett
Shinichi (2): Sir Chris, Cantripmancer
Highroller (2): Gentleman Johnny, Rhand
KamikazeArchon (1): Grapefruit21
Hunger never voted.
KA
KJ
LnGrrR
Rhand
Dont think that means factionless, it just makes sense as varys' faction
Good luck getting a full claim from me.
Also, I maintain Grape was acting scummy as heck. Like... he could join any faction. He had a way to freaking prove I was telling the truth! But he was probably afraid of losing his chance to gain an easy wincon. *shrug* I guess he will just have to hope we can give him the normal one.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
(V/LA weekends)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Hmm ya honestly the whole 1 person being wolf in a faction does sound kinda game breaking, which is why I probably don't believe it to the fullest. I am sure in some situations that may be the case but not all. It kinda depends on what your alternate win condition is, because it could be used to find scum in my faction or the nightwatchers which is helpful.
I never expected alternate win conditions, if I see them i expect it tied to like 1 person not every player in the game so it changes how to handle the gmae.
That plan does sound better than trying to break the game haha.
My only read on vaimes is based on how he looks at me in particular and the whole situation with him revaluating my slot. This has allowed me to seem him as town, as long as he doesn't flake. It still would have to pull his weight, i agree though in that i can't sense an agenda coming from him. I just wanted more detail on your read because you jsut came into the thread so was super curious.
I consider Cantrip quite a mechanical player, so even as scum its something I could see him doing based on my previous knowledge of how he plays. The issue I have is with how RE reacted to it. Also the very limited info he has given us about it witch i find super sketch. I don't think its rare to clear someone like that as scum because bussing oor powerwolfing is something thats also common for various reasons. That's why for now cantrip will remain a scum read for me and once i fully catch up i may be placing a vote there.
I like this alot, i sense no hidden agenda whatsoever. However it does make me want to put you on the throne lmfao. This slot is defaintly town for sure.
Honestly thats my brother for you, his post count tends to always be on the high one. His game solving skills are crazy which leads me to believe he was the mafia kill but im biased lol.
Something, its like you literally didn't care about the deaths or anything.
TBF our chat was mostly dead anyways, we didn't really get far with it. I'm however not using this as a reason to say he can't be scum. I still don't think tom has any agenda when stating atleast 1 scum existed in the factions which is why i still want to believe he is town for that statement.
Most of the game was on V/LA though, so makes sense for others to attack them to get them to be in the game more. I would understand if maybe you were the only one on V/LA but others were as well. Then again I know very little about you as a player, but my understanding is people will poke at anyone regardless of them being on V/LA or not.
I do not gain any sort of benefits, nor do i wanna be on the throne anyways.
It was emotionless and exremely dry in my opinion.
why not wisp?
I just despise any shape or form of trying to game the setup or mods. If you really believe that though puts me in a situation where i eithher drop my town read on you cause then I have no other world besides believing thhat KJ has to be scum. Unless I just donn't believe our faction has any scum because I like both KJ and you.
I despise these factions so much lol
I should be able to participate again soon when things calmed down here.
In your opinion, Last was the NK, but he looked pretty mislynchable yesterday. Does that move the needle for you? Do you think Last was onto something?
@Shinichi
What issue do you have with my reaction to Cantrip's clear?
So Vaimes mentioned earlier in this thread that he isn't very familiar with me, but Vaimes in last game's scum chat seemed to know me well enough when it came to plotting my demise. Vaimes knows me pretty well from our many games over the years, and I won't believe any protest to the contrary.
Secondly you were talking about how a town LW means Shin is less suspicious and I am less town for suspecting Shin, and I don't think that's sound reasoning as it assumes LW has knowledge we don't, which I think his posts in regards to Shin seemed to me to prove otherwise. He was not sound in his reasoning and went back and forth a lot. So I don't appreciate the small shade you threw at me considering it depends on Shin being town which is a read you decided to make more likely based off another person's read which isn't independently verified.
Hopefully that makes more sense, since I am off pain killers.
I guess my point about me being on v/la is rather moot, as I am now off my pain killers and while busy with work as per normal I am not in the hospital or recovering from surgery anymore, so all signs of 'oh no Chris isn't here' should pretty naturally disappear, and my stock in the game will rise because I am me and I am awesome.
So I guess I will just give up on the faction aspect of this game and say the reason why I voted Vaimes of the three is because I in no way believe my wagon is pure and Lngrr is unlikely to be mafia due to the naive way he talked about his faction circumstance and Rodemy and I are aligned and given the way he ranted like a madperson in faction chat about me I am less likely to believe he is scum than my other faction person could potentially be, but it is just the three of us so I am also inclined to not faction meta game scum counts as of now. I was trying to be a bit sneaky but I don't have the time to bother with faction stuff I guess.
Everyone seems very convinced on Vaimes, when I don't see him having really done anything.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I vaguely was skimming the thread whilst stuff happened, but I'll try and catch up today and tomorrow before I head off.
Nah
But especially last, who was fairly mislynchable and likely to stay that way considering he couldnt be checked or anything. Not to mention that his inability to adapt to these phaselengths is extremely pro scum...
So im assuming thats a vig shot? Wouldnt mind a vig claim to help figuring out rod slot, but not today prolly
-you dont know vaimes like you think you do
-You need to read him again without the painkillers
-you're scum and are currently in the process of outing yourself over a vaimes push
But even then "only used one vote" is a garbage reason, "cant be 3 town on me" is a garbage premise, and that rod clear seems weak AF especially in light of a (town?) night vig
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Its fine i wont even scumread you for it unless you catch up and still wanna press it for no/bad reasons