Talk to me about Vezok, please. Why do you not scumread him?
Do you have a reason that I should consider vezok more mafia than, in no particular order, you, KamikazeArchon, Anak, or Killjoy? If so, then I'll read him as mafia. As of right now, he's going to need to take a number.
I'm convinced Kami doesn't actually know what a sheep vote is.
Unpacking this: You're saying I'm using terminology incorrectly, using that to implicitly shade my play, and implicitly dismiss my suspicion of your actions. You don't actually address the problem with your actions and why I dislike them.
Please readdress this directly.
This isn’t the first time you’ve said I’m sheeping, and it isn’t the first time I’ve said “that is incorrect.” How are you going to shade me and then say I’m shading you?
What is your definition of sheeping? Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, because I haven’t sheeped anyone or anything.
Osie that feels like a big misread of what I was saying. The game has obviously advanced, I don't think your gambit particularly changed it because the slot you inherited was so easy to push regardless.
Like you couldn't have known that at the time (barring a scum chst or you breaking your own gimmick) but yeah. Everyone was going to either push you or shrug. It's where the game was. I am actually confident that's why you drew so many emotional responses.
I think I needed to reread your ISO.
That's fair. I just don't think it's right to minimize the three of those since they are three of the more notable events in the game.
Talk to me about Vezok, please. Why do you not scumread him?
Do you have a reason that I should consider vezok more mafia than, in no particular order, you, KamikazeArchon, Anak, or Killjoy? If so, then I'll read him as mafia. As of right now, he's going to need to take a number.
I'm not asking you to scumread him. I'm asking you to elaborate your current read on him.
I'm convinced Kami doesn't actually know what a sheep vote is.
Unpacking this: You're saying I'm using terminology incorrectly, using that to implicitly shade my play, and implicitly dismiss my suspicion of your actions. You don't actually address the problem with your actions and why I dislike them.
Please readdress this directly.
This isn’t the first time you’ve said I’m sheeping, and it isn’t the first time I’ve said “that is incorrect.” How are you going to shade me and then say I’m shading you?
What is your definition of sheeping? Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, because I haven’t sheeped anyone or anything.
@Chris, @Grape: Do you think this might be scum theatre or that it's likely at least one town?
I think it's likely one is town because I think Vaimes is town. Let's see how he handles deadline but he's probably just town here.
Could easily be distancing but I'd expect a bit more teeth to it in that world and not just swiping.
Anyway Osie I'm discounting the emotional response you drew from tom as I can't solve him that way. The one from Highroller is weird because you were making a truly bizarre read that didn't make much sense and my town read on him was unaffected by it. And I'm not sure what other emotional response you're referring to. Now what has been significant is your tone through all of that read super townily to Chris and he flipped the town momentum on it's head. So you are correct your play has had a large impact, I just think it's from second order knock ons, not the gambit itself.
But like I'm 30% less interested in condemning you than I was 72 hours ago so that's good I guess. I dunno. Talking about assigning credit in mafia is weird. Like I really value different things than other people do. And this isn't a productive conversation.
@Highroller talk to me more about KJ. You deflected last time I asked you to explain the scum read and I gave you parts of why I'm town reading him. It's your turn to justify this scum read because to me he's very obviously town.
I also strongly disliked Kami's stance on my slot's play day 1, but I don't think I can get anything useful out of pushing them for that today, since the original theory has been debunked.
<snip>
Is Vaimes as bouncy/sheepy with his votes as town as he has been in this game?
Is there a strong case for a town!Kami out there?
why is pushing kami not useful today?
There is no town case out there
What do you mean by bouncy?
I think it could be. I've seen the wagon grow and dissipate. There does seem to be this mentality in some players that while he is scummy, he isn't scum - and I'm not sure why that is. Pushing him today, however, for something that he already knows to be false given the Rhand and Wisp flips wouldn't be nearly as useful since I'd have a much harder time detecting whether he believed it or not, and at this point all he could was justify his reasoning. I'd rather observe how he backs off, if he chose to, when I (hypothetically) question him.
Bouncy in that he seems to drop everything he's doing to change his vote. Jumping from one lead to another. I've noted this in #1891 and #2304.
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I also strongly disliked Kami's stance on my slot's play day 1, but I don't think I can get anything useful out of pushing them for that today, since the original theory has been debunked.
<snip>
Is Vaimes as bouncy/sheepy with his votes as town as he has been in this game?
Is there a strong case for a town!Kami out there?
why is pushing kami not useful today?
There is no town case out there
What do you mean by bouncy?
I think it could be. I've seen the wagon grow and dissipate. There does seem to be this mentality in some players that while he is scummy, he isn't scum - and I'm not sure why that is. Pushing him today, however, for something that he already knows to be false given the Rhand and Wisp flips wouldn't be nearly as useful since I'd have a much harder time detecting whether he believed it or not, and at this point all he could was justify his reasoning. I'd rather observe how he backs off, if he chose to, when I (hypothetically) question him.
Bouncy in that he seems to drop everything he's doing to change his vote. Jumping from one lead to another. I've noted this in #1891 and #2304.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Recently, I recall someone dismissing him as "probably town." Earlier, Sir Chris' slot (D_V) called his play bad but saw him as town.
tom has had him in a gray area for a long time but also called his wagon bad, as well as the players pushing that wagon (#1858). Now Kami has moved up for him, but if I'm understanding correctly, that's due to other players moving down.
Certainly no one seems to be townreading him, but there is hesitation in lynching him (and I specify lynch over vote, because I know he's been wagoned before).
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Okay let me be very clear: Osie your gambit sucked and this game advanced because I came in and did Chris things <_<.
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If vez's only defense of Kami is "probably town," I think that'd be unlikely. Kami, regardless, was still catching heat. If vez failed to provide a more solid defense (even if it were fabricated), he'd soon be catching heat himself. I'd say scum either would avoid talking about a buddy under heat, agree with the consensus read but do little about it, or provide a harder defense in hopes of convincing others. "Probably town" isn't convincing AND it's questionable.
By may have had an "actual" reason, what I really mean is he may have justified the read with evidence from the thread, not necessarily that he believes it himself or that it's accurate.
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While I am not totally sure how productive it is, three of the top slots that I want to focus on sorting between my scumreads and townleans inclusive are HighTau, EtRE, and Vaimes.
I don't know if Highroller was warned or not, either by a mod or by a host, for 2450, but I'm just going to ignore it in the context of the game since it's not productive to respond to that sort of toxic vitriol outside of acknowledging it for what it is.
@Highroller talk to me more about KJ. You deflected last time I asked you to explain the scum read and I gave you parts of why I'm town reading him. It's your turn to justify this scum read because to me he's very obviously town.
Has he elaborated in response to ANYONE asking him to explain his reads? I'm tempted to pull out the Zero Escape questionnaire if he doesn't elaborate in response to anyone as of some point in the next day phase either. Though he might just be toxic in response again.
Basically I think scum wins this game if I don't come in from game flow observations. Osi is lynched, town. Tom is being subtly pushed and with him neing so wrong he probably gets lynched for that, loses credibility on his anak read when his GJ read was so poor. Scum gladly push Osi/GJ because they are helping to murder Town Tom's cred. Vezo's vote was trash as an example.
Anak was not prepared for me to bust him right in the face. It shows, he appears to have tapped out? Unless I missed a post. Bad vote on Osi that was self pres really, tried to appeal to my ego (does anyone thinks this works? I know I am good but flattery literally will get you nowhere lol) and then Vezo did the most distancing scum buddy vote of all time with no enthusiasm.
I am open to someone fooling me but Vezo offers no solutions to that just throws it out.
Also I didn't think in terms of a gambit but when I said "enough out of you" I knew you were doing something weird but never thought "gambit." So yes essentially I am just that smart.
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I think you maintained that focus and obsessive wording in a manner that was not very townie. KEEP IN MIND that you are not a heavy scumread, in fact you're barely a scumlean. I'm wavering on you in general. If you're continuing to push me after me extending multiple olive branches, clarifying my behavior in the thread, and pushing for you and others to focus on actually forming reads, then yes, I will be more likely to scumread you. Because that isn't townie behavior.
realizing that was a gambit from town osi and keeping the higher ground?
I don't particularly believe that you realized it, and you certainly didn't keep any form of higher ground. If you're town and realized it, then shame on you. If you're scum and realized it, then congrats.
dude
Bro
What does persecution complex mean to you if not "intentionally drawing suspicion and focusing on that"?
Like, i dont believe this was a gambit.
But you are very directly admitting my read is correct here if youre telling the truth...
Also, what chris said. If true this gambit did absolutely nothing. When youre scummy on purpose, you dont draw out suspicion from scum. You just draw suspicion. From everyone.
If vez's only defense of Kami is "probably town," I think that'd be unlikely. Kami, regardless, was still catching heat. If vez failed to provide a more solid defense (even if it were fabricated), he'd soon be catching heat himself. I'd say scum either would avoid talking about a buddy under heat, agree with the consensus read but do little about it, or provide a harder defense in hopes of convincing others. "Probably town" isn't convincing AND it's questionable.
By may have had an "actual" reason, what I really mean is he may have justified the read with evidence from the thread, not necessarily that he believes it himself or that it's accurate.
also to wifom scum a bit I don't think they actually kill me here, they think protection protects me. So protection, sincerely, don't protect me. They will thnk you won't listen and shoot elsewhere!
Okay so really the only thing I have to do to keep Osi alive is just keep lynching scum every day. I can dig this.
If we have night killing power of some kind please murder Vezok, he is never not the lynch day 3 if Anak flips scum.
Speaking of Anak is completely frozen, Tom. Good call bud.
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ka can be town. I doubt he fights such a stupid fight as scum. He actually believes what he is saying and I am certain that scum don't try to push a town lynch day 1 just cause.
Tubba is nullish town. He's too absent, but I've seen some town glimpses.
Dv and GJ are both town.
Mindreaver is probably my second scumread. His posts just seem agenda driven, but tom attacking him makes me ho "huh".
I see a world where all town reads except KA are town (explained a lot on that one, whereas for my slot and GJ is just 'TOWN') and 2/3 of his scum reads are town.
Rule of 3 after all
tom town
rhand town
anak scum
would make sense to me!
By the way @RE1031 here is a Vezxo post where he elaborates on KA and not other people I find town.
God if the first three scum are Anak/Vezo/KA I am going to be HYPED AS ****.
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What does persecution complex mean to you if not "intentionally drawing suspicion and focusing on that"?
per·se·cu·tion com·plex
noun
an irrational and obsessive feeling or fear that one is the object of collective hostility or ill-treatment on the part of others.
And for the 4th time, can you move on from this pointless waste of time or are you determined to continue to flex your ego at me?
also to wifom scum a bit I don't think they actually kill me here, they think protection protects me. So protection, sincerely, don't protect me. They will thnk you won't listen and shoot elsewhere!
Okay so really the only thing I have to do to keep Osi alive is just keep lynching scum every day. I can dig this.
If we have night killing power of some kind please murder Vezok, he is never not the lynch day 3 if Anak flips scum.
Speaking of Anak is completely frozen, Tom. Good call bud.
Good for you. Feel free to toot your horn in your own time. I actually can't shake the feeling that Tom is scum and would like something more substantial from you than "scum Tom would be not scared of me" Thanks.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I already have you more. Perhaps you can read my posts more closely and then make commentary about how I toot this has been answered.
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What does persecution complex mean to you if not "intentionally drawing suspicion and focusing on that"?
per·se·cu·tion com·plex
noun
an irrational and obsessive feeling or fear that one is the object of collective hostility or ill-treatment on the part of others.
And for the 4th time, can you move on from this pointless waste of time or are you determined to continue to flex your ego at me?
you know, youre right.
Based on that definition its only an irrational obsession if youre town.
Its more a manufactured focus since youre scum...
I really cant drop it tbh. Because its... absolutely true.
Perhaps you dont like the terminology because youre being compared to a mental disorder and perhaps theres a friendlier term out there but its getting more and more accurate every time you call highroller toxic for... snapping back at you when youre starting it.
I would honestly be into policy lynching you if i didnt just think you were scum anyway
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Possible buddy in dvslot/rod. Im usually down to open wolf like that.
Any of tauslot, kami, etrslot, tubba, vez could work. I know full well ive had them higher than they prolly deserve. Though i pretty thoroughly yelled at kami after he pushed me for being vla so thats less likely.
Anakslot, osislot, and vaimes lock clear if im scum
Lngrr ive pushed a bunch but never actually tried to lynch, so that works
Think i still work with kj but not grape but let's just set that aside since youre asking
So, like
Tom+lngrr+vez+[rod or chris]
Swap out for tubba/highroller.
Etr could be on there but im already planning to put the screws to RE eventually
I really hate the whole line with wanting people to catch him up instead of reading themselves, then complaining that people were scumreading them for that. I put in quite a large amount of time reading through and catching myself up, and it just screams scum that doesn't care much about previous events in the game, whereas even lazy town would have wanted to find the most important parts of the earlier game instead of just not caring at all and wanting others to save them the effort.
On a personal/mafia theory level, I completely disagree with this. Really, the most important part of the game is the present (exceptions being LyLo/MyLo). Because whatever there was to talk about in earlier game likely was already discussed, and repeating that (in fact) is more of a scum tell, as it doesn't actually add anything new to the game nor solve it, plus scum *love* using outdated topics to boost their content level.
Analyzing this read without personal bias though, I fail to see how wanting notes to keep up with the present rather than being stuck in the past "screams" scum. I'd like more evidence against osie, if Anak truly believes him to be scum. (Currently, based on recent posts, I am finding osie to be town. A combination of gut and his overall play favoring solving over attempts to sway suspicion from his slot through weak justification of his actions/reads.)
I will claim once there are more than two votes on me with reasoning. Yes I'm being that petulant. If most everyone wants to lynch me with votes that have almost literally nothing to them then I would rather gamble on keeping my role hidden, we don't deserve to win with piss poor play like this. Put some meat on those votes and I will acquiese but until then nope.
So this is a soft claim if I ever saw one (fake edit: he claimed vanilla). The bolded confuses me; I don't really see how winning is relevant to the current situation.
The rest of the post contains a decent read of Sir Chris, though it's definitely an easy read to give.
People were happy to help you because you were obviously happy to help us, the difference being Osie was straight up saying he didn't care about catching uo. Essentially the difference between a please help me catch up (you) vs I don't feel like catching up (osie).
It's not that he is my top suspect, I would still rather lynch Kami over Osie, but given where we are at in regards to deadline I moved my vote over. I would prefer to lynch Kami even but that doesn't seem like much of a possibility.
In that list of four I think Osie is the only likely scum, so 1? Vaimes could be but I don't see that, and KJ and Grape I am going to keep assuming are town until we get enough data to start to suspect their claim, so most likely just the 1.
Vez's vote on me is even worse than just a naked vote on me like KJ, shows a desire just simply to get to night with no spotlight on him
I won't be able to post anything comprehensive, at work and it blocks the site, so limited to quick posting when I can.
While I disagreed with the previous assumption that even lazy town would read everything (or something along the lines of that), I think using your own approach as a basis for assessing another player's alignment is +town (though reminder that not everyone plays the same way.) Problem is, that appears to be the only reason.
I'd like to see a bit more world building from this slot, if possible. Lack of frequent thread engagement is always going to feel bad, but I don't strongly scumread the slot. I'd need a lot more than his current reasoning against Osie to be anywhere certain though.
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By the way @RE1031 here is a Vezxo post where he elaborates on KA and not other people I find town.
Thanks, I definitely understand that point of view. Which is why I wish I could have pushed him while that theory still existed as a real possibility to the uninformed - because you'd have to believe town was incapable of gambiting (which I currently find doubtful).
Bouncy in that he seems to drop everything he's doing to change his vote. Jumping from one lead to another. I've noted this in #1891 and #2304.
ah thats very differently than i use bouncy
Im usually trying to evoke tigger from winnie the pooh lol
Does this form of "bounciness" read towny to you? Seems like you could look at it as freeflowing or like he doesnt care about his reads
Freeflowing outside of early day 1 seems counterproductive. It doesn't read townie to me, it reads to me as opportunistic, though I'm aware statistically scum are less likely to budge on their reads.
Which is why I asked whether he does this as town or not. Because the "flow" feels unnatural.
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I'm convinced Kami doesn't actually know what a sheep vote is.
Unpacking this: You're saying I'm using terminology incorrectly, using that to implicitly shade my play, and implicitly dismiss my suspicion of your actions. You don't actually address the problem with your actions and why I dislike them.
Please readdress this directly.
This isn’t the first time you’ve said I’m sheeping, and it isn’t the first time I’ve said “that is incorrect.” How are you going to shade me and then say I’m shading you?
What is your definition of sheeping? Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, because I haven’t sheeped anyone or anything.
Sure, this is what I'm seeing that I am calling "sheeping": voting X with little or no explanation, specifically when X just got wagon traction or just got votes from another source, and especially when your justification adds up to "I agree with what others say".
2304: Your vote on Anak as the Anak wagon gets rolling (explicitly a "those other people are right" vote)
2019: Your vote on Osie following Tom's 2011.
1891: Your vote on Tom following Grapefruit's 1888.
1077: Your vote on Rhand as the Rhand wagon gets rolling.
440: Your vote on EtR following my own 426.
362: Your vote on LnGrrr following Tau's 359 (in this one you explicitly call it a sheep!)
You only have a couple of votes that don't follow this pattern. Your #1802 (still almost no explanation, but at least it's not following anyone or on an existing wagon); and your #312 and #314 at the very start of the game, which are the best votes you've had.
I dislike this because you're not pushing your own thoughts on these votes. You're just going with what's happening. You have posts in between that look like analysis but they don't seem connected to your actual voting.
Going to give Vaimes a bit of time to respond - beyond that, is there any reason not to hammer?
If I'm reading the vote count correctly, Osie and Anak are tied (Anak leading until Grape swapped votes onto Osie). 5/5. (Unless I missed a vote somewhere).
Currently, I would vote Anak over osie.
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If vez's only defense of Kami is "probably town," I think that'd be unlikely. Kami, regardless, was still catching heat. If vez failed to provide a more solid defense (even if it were fabricated), he'd soon be catching heat himself. I'd say scum either would avoid talking about a buddy under heat, agree with the consensus read but do little about it, or provide a harder defense in hopes of convincing others. "Probably town" isn't convincing AND it's questionable.
By may have had an "actual" reason, what I really mean is he may have justified the read with evidence from the thread, not necessarily that he believes it himself or that it's accurate.
Scum usually overinteracts or underinteracts, no?
Forgot to reply to this - if vez and Kami are aligned, it'd be a pretty incriminating statement made, to the point where I think scum!vez would recognize it and avoid making it. Though him justifying it earlier (which I missed) changes it a bit and I'd need to read them individually.
"Overinteract" and "underinteract" are pretty vague terms to the point where town is also guilty of this. I'm looking at accountability for said interaction more than anything.
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What does "accountability for an interaction" mean?
Basically how they'll be perceived based on interactions/defenses/cases once the other flips (can also depend on the likelihood of the other flipping).
A hard defense of scum who is about to be lynched, while looks terrible, is more likely to come from town because they'd be held accountable for it more so than someone who weakly defended them earlier in the game.
In vez's case, he defended you with fairly weak reasoning (upon my first look) but also didn't waffle on it, and did so during a time while you were still receiving heat. This creates a decent amount of accountability, especially when both of you are on the bottom of a number of reads lists.
I could probably explain this better, but it'd take some time and I don't think it's necessary since I plan on looking at you two individually anyway. Just a counter to osie's point that you could be buddies for vez's defense of you.
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I mildly like RE1031 so far. Now that they have posted I can make that read!
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Highroller is doing things I Don’t Like that seem very very similar to his “everyone scumreading me is scum” mindset.
Gonna assume it’s a town!him thing.
I hate hate hate “I was scummy on purpose” plays, it almost always backfires and wastes everyone’s time.
Do you have a reason that I should consider vezok more mafia than, in no particular order, you, KamikazeArchon, Anak, or Killjoy? If so, then I'll read him as mafia. As of right now, he's going to need to take a number.
What is your definition of sheeping? Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, because I haven’t sheeped anyone or anything.
That's fair. I just don't think it's right to minimize the three of those since they are three of the more notable events in the game.
I'm not asking you to scumread him. I'm asking you to elaborate your current read on him.
I was caught up with the game at least twice as quickly as you were. Just saying.
@Chris, @Grape: Do you think this might be scum theatre or that it's likely at least one town?
Could easily be distancing but I'd expect a bit more teeth to it in that world and not just swiping.
Anyway Osie I'm discounting the emotional response you drew from tom as I can't solve him that way. The one from Highroller is weird because you were making a truly bizarre read that didn't make much sense and my town read on him was unaffected by it. And I'm not sure what other emotional response you're referring to. Now what has been significant is your tone through all of that read super townily to Chris and he flipped the town momentum on it's head. So you are correct your play has had a large impact, I just think it's from second order knock ons, not the gambit itself.
But like I'm 30% less interested in condemning you than I was 72 hours ago so that's good I guess. I dunno. Talking about assigning credit in mafia is weird. Like I really value different things than other people do. And this isn't a productive conversation.
@Highroller talk to me more about KJ. You deflected last time I asked you to explain the scum read and I gave you parts of why I'm town reading him. It's your turn to justify this scum read because to me he's very obviously town.
Bouncy in that he seems to drop everything he's doing to change his vote. Jumping from one lead to another. I've noted this in #1891 and #2304.
tom has had him in a gray area for a long time but also called his wagon bad, as well as the players pushing that wagon (#1858). Now Kami has moved up for him, but if I'm understanding correctly, that's due to other players moving down.
Certainly no one seems to be townreading him, but there is hesitation in lynching him (and I specify lynch over vote, because I know he's been wagoned before).
I'll read Anak's ISO now.
They could just be buddies.
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By may have had an "actual" reason, what I really mean is he may have justified the read with evidence from the thread, not necessarily that he believes it himself or that it's accurate.
I don't know if Highroller was warned or not, either by a mod or by a host, for 2450, but I'm just going to ignore it in the context of the game since it's not productive to respond to that sort of toxic vitriol outside of acknowledging it for what it is.
Has he elaborated in response to ANYONE asking him to explain his reads? I'm tempted to pull out the Zero Escape questionnaire if he doesn't elaborate in response to anyone as of some point in the next day phase either. Though he might just be toxic in response again.
Anak was not prepared for me to bust him right in the face. It shows, he appears to have tapped out? Unless I missed a post. Bad vote on Osi that was self pres really, tried to appeal to my ego (does anyone thinks this works? I know I am good but flattery literally will get you nowhere lol) and then Vezo did the most distancing scum buddy vote of all time with no enthusiasm.
I am open to someone fooling me but Vezo offers no solutions to that just throws it out.
Also I didn't think in terms of a gambit but when I said "enough out of you" I knew you were doing something weird but never thought "gambit." So yes essentially I am just that smart.
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Bro
What does persecution complex mean to you if not "intentionally drawing suspicion and focusing on that"?
Like, i dont believe this was a gambit.
But you are very directly admitting my read is correct here if youre telling the truth...
Also, what chris said. If true this gambit did absolutely nothing. When youre scummy on purpose, you dont draw out suspicion from scum. You just draw suspicion. From everyone.
Also i just dont believe you
Scum usually overinteracts or underinteracts, no?
Tell the host they are killing Chris night 2 LOL
also to wifom scum a bit I don't think they actually kill me here, they think protection protects me. So protection, sincerely, don't protect me. They will thnk you won't listen and shoot elsewhere!
Okay so really the only thing I have to do to keep Osi alive is just keep lynching scum every day. I can dig this.
If we have night killing power of some kind please murder Vezok, he is never not the lynch day 3 if Anak flips scum.
Speaking of Anak is completely frozen, Tom. Good call bud.
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In scum Tom world, what do teams look like?
By the way @RE1031 here is a Vezxo post where he elaborates on KA and not other people I find town.
God if the first three scum are Anak/Vezo/KA I am going to be HYPED AS ****.
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per·se·cu·tion com·plex
noun
an irrational and obsessive feeling or fear that one is the object of collective hostility or ill-treatment on the part of others.
And for the 4th time, can you move on from this pointless waste of time or are you determined to continue to flex your ego at me?
Im usually trying to evoke tigger from winnie the pooh lol
Does this form of "bounciness" read towny to you? Seems like you could look at it as freeflowing or like he doesnt care about his reads
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Based on that definition its only an irrational obsession if youre town.
Its more a manufactured focus since youre scum...
I really cant drop it tbh. Because its... absolutely true.
Perhaps you dont like the terminology because youre being compared to a mental disorder and perhaps theres a friendlier term out there but its getting more and more accurate every time you call highroller toxic for... snapping back at you when youre starting it.
I would honestly be into policy lynching you if i didnt just think you were scum anyway
Also answered btw
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Possible buddy in dvslot/rod. Im usually down to open wolf like that.
Any of tauslot, kami, etrslot, tubba, vez could work. I know full well ive had them higher than they prolly deserve. Though i pretty thoroughly yelled at kami after he pushed me for being vla so thats less likely.
Anakslot, osislot, and vaimes lock clear if im scum
Lngrr ive pushed a bunch but never actually tried to lynch, so that works
Think i still work with kj but not grape but let's just set that aside since youre asking
So, like
Tom+lngrr+vez+[rod or chris]
Swap out for tubba/highroller.
Etr could be on there but im already planning to put the screws to RE eventually
On a personal/mafia theory level, I completely disagree with this. Really, the most important part of the game is the present (exceptions being LyLo/MyLo). Because whatever there was to talk about in earlier game likely was already discussed, and repeating that (in fact) is more of a scum tell, as it doesn't actually add anything new to the game nor solve it, plus scum *love* using outdated topics to boost their content level.
Analyzing this read without personal bias though, I fail to see how wanting notes to keep up with the present rather than being stuck in the past "screams" scum. I'd like more evidence against osie, if Anak truly believes him to be scum. (Currently, based on recent posts, I am finding osie to be town. A combination of gut and his overall play favoring solving over attempts to sway suspicion from his slot through weak justification of his actions/reads.) So this is a soft claim if I ever saw one (fake edit: he claimed vanilla). The bolded confuses me; I don't really see how winning is relevant to the current situation.
The rest of the post contains a decent read of Sir Chris, though it's definitely an easy read to give. While I disagreed with the previous assumption that even lazy town would read everything (or something along the lines of that), I think using your own approach as a basis for assessing another player's alignment is +town (though reminder that not everyone plays the same way.) Problem is, that appears to be the only reason.
I'd like to see a bit more world building from this slot, if possible. Lack of frequent thread engagement is always going to feel bad, but I don't strongly scumread the slot. I'd need a lot more than his current reasoning against Osie to be anywhere certain though.
Which is why I asked whether he does this as town or not. Because the "flow" feels unnatural.
2304: Your vote on Anak as the Anak wagon gets rolling (explicitly a "those other people are right" vote)
2019: Your vote on Osie following Tom's 2011.
1891: Your vote on Tom following Grapefruit's 1888.
1077: Your vote on Rhand as the Rhand wagon gets rolling.
440: Your vote on EtR following my own 426.
362: Your vote on LnGrrr following Tau's 359 (in this one you explicitly call it a sheep!)
You only have a couple of votes that don't follow this pattern. Your #1802 (still almost no explanation, but at least it's not following anyone or on an existing wagon); and your #312 and #314 at the very start of the game, which are the best votes you've had.
I dislike this because you're not pushing your own thoughts on these votes. You're just going with what's happening. You have posts in between that look like analysis but they don't seem connected to your actual voting.
Currently, I would vote Anak over osie.
osi (5): LnGrr, tom, Highroller, Anak, grape
LnGrr (1): Kami
Vezok (1): RE
Not Voting (2): Tubba, Rod
Both L-3, ~5 hours left
Im ecstatic to condemn either
vote Anak
Because even with my vote, we'd only hit L-1.
"Overinteract" and "underinteract" are pretty vague terms to the point where town is also guilty of this. I'm looking at accountability for said interaction more than anything.
A hard defense of scum who is about to be lynched, while looks terrible, is more likely to come from town because they'd be held accountable for it more so than someone who weakly defended them earlier in the game.
In vez's case, he defended you with fairly weak reasoning (upon my first look) but also didn't waffle on it, and did so during a time while you were still receiving heat. This creates a decent amount of accountability, especially when both of you are on the bottom of a number of reads lists.
I could probably explain this better, but it'd take some time and I don't think it's necessary since I plan on looking at you two individually anyway. Just a counter to osie's point that you could be buddies for vez's defense of you.
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