I was making a joke about the 3 votes, but you seem pretty defensive about it....
fos lngrrR
I am of the opinion that those who say/imply "This is scummy!" while also doing it tend to be subconsciously revealing their alignment. Sure, better players can do that to disguise their meta, but even good players trip up sometimes.
So are you going with the "It's poor play" explanation instead? Or... dramatic? Over the top? Feel free to explain in more clarity/detail.
No. I merely pointed out the absolute ridiculousness of it. Why are you so attatched to this argument? You are calling me out for something that is very NAI. Like, you want to make it SEEM like it's scummy, and i can only see that kind of mindset coming from scum.
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Guessing this is to me, but I have no clue what you mean by that statement.
Basically, you are defending Grape over something so small, that it feels fake.
I am not defending Grape; I am saying it feels slimy to try and manipulate someone that you feel is town into attacking someone that you don't think is scum. Instead of making the attack on Grape himself (because he knows it would look scummy if Grape flips town after KJ'S claim), he tries to get DV amped up to go after him instead to muddy the waters.
You are the one that tried to point out the fact that I was being hypocritical and seeing scum motivation when in fact i was not. YOu basically created a narrative of me calling grape scummy for voting 3 times in a post, which i did not. And by doing so it felt like you are trying to defend he apparently town confirmed Grape (because it's super safe, right?) and pushing scum!Rodemy over such a small thing.
I can sense when people are trying to mislynch me and this feels 100% like that.
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
So are you going with the "It's poor play" explanation instead? Or... dramatic? Over the top? Feel free to explain in more clarity/detail.
No. I merely pointed out the absolute ridiculousness of it. Why are you so attatched to this argument? You are calling me out for something that is very NAI. Like, you want to make it SEEM like it's scummy, and i can only see that kind of mindset coming from scum.
If you are finding me scummy for finding something else scummy, you are going to end up with a lot of people on your scum list. And I wasn't calling you out; I was noting it. For something that isn't a big deal... you are making a big deal out of it.
You are the one that tried to point out the fact that I was being hypocritical and seeing scum motivation when in fact i was not. YOu basically created a narrative of me calling grape scummy for voting 3 times in a post, which i did not. And by doing so it felt like you are trying to defend he apparently town confirmed Grape (because it's super safe, right?) and pushing scum!Rodemy over such a small thing.
I can sense when people are trying to mislynch me and this feels 100% like that.
Methinks thou doth protest too much.
So what was your reason for pointing that out? just for the lulz?
Since you're here, what are your reads on Tubba, GJ, and Kami?
I was making a joke about the 3 votes, but you seem pretty defensive about it....
fos lngrrR
I am of the opinion that those who say/imply "This is scummy!" while also doing it tend to be subconsciously revealing their alignment. Sure, better players can do that to disguise their meta, but even good players trip up sometimes.
Which means you are trying to paint me as scum. This doesn't align with what i said or did. So it's false.
You are creating your own narrative about that one specific part of the post and calling me scummy for it.
DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE THIS? Am i being dumb?
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
I was making a joke about the 3 votes, but you seem pretty defensive about it....
fos lngrrR
I am of the opinion that those who say/imply "This is scummy!" while also doing it tend to be subconsciously revealing their alignment. Sure, better players can do that to disguise their meta, but even good players trip up sometimes.
WHAT. DO. YOU. MEAN "I never called it scummy"
ARE YOU READING WHAT YOU TYPE!?
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Me: You calling out Grape is funny.
You: Finding suspicion in my post.
Me: Explaining that people who say something is bad/weird/lulz then doing it them self is suspicious.
You: I never said it was scummy!
Me: Explain what you meant by it.
You: YOU CALLED ME SCUM DIE SCUM!
Me: *Pikachu face*
Reread incoming. I’m gonna spoiler the quotes to make it more readable.
Spoilered quotes first (when I think they’re important enough to quote), thoughts after that.
@killjoy
What gave you the idea that I was having fun? I'm just glad to be back, had a falling out with my community, so if anything I'm not particularly in the mood for anything
This bothers me a bit because it’s defense vs something he doesn’t need to defend against. KJ’s reaction to that in #47 is good.
Rodemy is still scummy, and Tau moves down because that felt forced
Personally I didn't like any of the entrances outside Tom
I'm gonna take this game slower than I've previously done in past games on this site, and to answer your question, I was focusing on another game, which I botched at EoD, losing to Mafia
You ignored my question, called me “still scummy”, it sounds like you switched views from “I can’t find any scum in these TVs votes” to “ these are all scummy (except tom”
I just...
vote lastwhisper
I feel good about this vote
This is a good observation and vote by Rodemy. LW’s reaction afterwards (#51) is a bit too cocky.
Ruma leaves the LW wagon to vote KJ without reasoning.
LW gets better in #79 @LW: did you intentionally draw a wagon on you to analyse it?
Now that I know what KJ claimed and I see #84, I’m gonna treat KJ and Grape as confirmed town. It’s either that or scum together, and I doubt they would tie themselves like that as s/s.
LW’s #86 is pretty good, although I don’t agree with his conclusion on Rodemy.
Tom’s #99 shows tom is making a town!block. If he doesn’t throw people out of that too easily in the future, he’s probably town. (for further reference: townblock here is KJ / LW / Rodemy)
Town
Grape / KJ (because of KJ’s claim later on)
Tom (slowly building the world, that’s how he plays)
Rodemy (solid vote on LW)
Lean town
LW (decent analyses)
Null
EtR
Mindreaver
August / GJ
Lngr
Lean scum
Tau (overexplaining)
Tubba (lack of RVS vote)
Zdtsd/DV (weak entrance)
Scum
Ruma (unexplained KJ vote)
Kami (weak LW vote late on wagon)
game shifts to the Grape wagon
LW, me and tom vote Grape.
KJ starts a Tubba wagon, trying to get me to give other reads.
Think ill vote kami
And not explain at all but heavily imply i have a really good reason that will inevitably disappoint everyone when i finally reveal it
Can't help but notice you didn't answer my question. Should I put you on the permascum list now or later?
So this is weird to me: LW asks me for an explanation on Tau - then goes on to talk about his own Tau read and switches it to a townread, giving an explanation why. If I ask a suspect questions to probe reactions, I try to give a little info as possible about my own perspectives until after they've answered. LW didn't wait for that.
This is a roundabout way of answering your question about what I don't like about your post(s), LW. Is the above a small detail? Yes. That's what I'm seeing - small deviations from what I would consider natural play.
Natural is different for different people so this is certainly a soft read and we'll see how the game develops, but for now the vote's gonna stand.
Kami doesn’t seem interested in anything else than LW, even though the game is moving away from that.
Lngr stays stuck in that too in #127.
Rodemy has a way broader view in the next posts.
Tubba’s assessment of LW vs Rod in #131 seems fair
Think ill vote kami
And not explain at all but heavily imply i have a really good reason that will inevitably disappoint everyone when i finally reveal it
You do realize RVS is over right? Why are you randomly voting for kami?
Now, Riku and Rodemy look like town to me, while tom and wisp look like scum to me. Vote: tomsloger.
Zdtsd’s vote on tom feels like someone who has never played with tom before voting tom for all the wrong reasons. What bothers me more in this post is the unexplained Riku townread.
Lngr’s #170 almost sounds like a confession.
#184 is a very good post by mindreaver, followed by a good vote on Grape.
Kami says nothing at all in #193
Tau’s vote on Grape in #198 is rather weak.
#204 shows LW has a very good grasp on the game. I think that makes him solid town.
If I’m right about Kami being scum, then this post probably means one of Vaimes and GJ is scum.
I agree with most of Tau’s readslist in #226
I drop the Grape meta bomb, which I was convinced was a good find. Turns out I’m probably all wrong. The reactions of people are useful though.
Ruma ignores it and only talks about himself at first and gives a non-answer to it later.
Tom does the legwork to check it and agrees.
Kami says he loves the idea, checks Grape’s meta and comes with the opposite conclusion. I’m really sure that he’s only saying that because he knows I’m wrong about Grape’s alignment, because what I found really is there.
Mind and Rodemy seem not to have read the game when they first post.
LW attacks Kami (correctly I think)
Tubba adds nothing useful
Mind did see it: asks Rodemy about his view.
Vaimes comes in with a KA vote (which I like), then has reasons to add his vote to the Grape wagon
Rodemy adds his vote to Grape too with new reasons.
Tau is also doing legwork on the meta tell. Disagrees too but shows the work. Comes in with a good case on Lngr later.
Tom posts a new towncircle, which is still the same + me. Looks good.
Conclusions: tom, Mind, Vaimes, Rodemy and Tau looking good. Kami, Tubba and Riku looking bad. And the case on Lngr is solid.
Tau does his EtR
Quick EtR voters before EtR posts: Grape, Mind (very convinced)
I don’t understand tom’s Mind vote.
Kami’s vote on EtR after all of EtR’s posts is strange. He’s overconfident that EtR did give up his buddies. Which would be a 5-person scum team with the buddy list Kami accepts to be true.
LW correctly votes Kami for that.
Vaimes comes to the conclusion that an EtR lynch is correct, but not necessarily that it solves the game
Rodemy goes against tau instead of EtR
Tubba does a naked vote, bringing EtR in hammer range. Tau unvotes in response.
Riku agrees with a tau lynch
Conclusions: Mind’s conviction comes off as townie. Which is a sharp contrast with Kami’s. tom looks a bit less good with going after mind. I like the reactions of LW and Vaimes. Rodemy starting a tau wagon looks good too. Strongly dislike Tubba’s naked hammer range.
Aaand I just got to the ETR claim. I'm posting this list anyways. Assume this list stops at the ETR/Reaverb Tau claim.
Town
tomsloger – He seems town. I need to revisit this read pretty much every day though. Note to self if Tom seems to come to conclusions that seem strange revisit immediately. Tom has also eachoed quite a few thoughts I had while I was reading the thread.
Lastwhisper – Seems pure. At least for the moment. I've always felt that last just produces so much content that if he is scum he will slip up at some point. Fine with having him in town for the moment.
Rodemy – Slightly over aggressive at the beginning. I don't think he's scum right now though. Also whats the probability of him rolling scum three games in a row /s.
Reaverb Tau – Up until #226 I was slightly scum reading them. Their list didn't seem like the worst thing I've ever read and their scum team matched my scum team at this point.
Grapefruit21 – I don't think I've ever seen Grape open power wolf. Also, hes reasoning in a way that I agree with. I'd be reading through the thread seeing things and then grape would echo them. Probably my weakest town read though.
Neutral IE the “August” standard.
KamikazeArchon – I'd be tempted to move KA to town. In ghostbusters he felt cold and distant. Seems a lot more bubbly here.
M1ndreaver – I don't feel like Mind has really done much either way. He's been trying to solve enough I suppose, but I'm just left with a void of apathy after reading his posts.
Vaimes – I was already scum reading him, because his post felt like catch up join the largest wagon when he joined the grape wagon. Tom, echoing my thoughts almost immediately makes me think this is perhaps more valid then I was giving it credit for.
Tubba – I really disliked Tubba's push onto last. All of the content that was flying around and in that 280 post that's what he decides to focus on before he fades back into the shadows?
Killjoy – KJ's posts have been a little too low effort for me. Its pinging me the wrong way and their comments have been almost abrupt. I'm not really sure how else to describe it. Its like instead of developing any ideas he just veers somewhere else. His town read of Rhand in 300 feels bad to me.
Scum
Didn't sort these four.
EtR
Rhand
LnGrrrR
Rumanshi
DV posts a readslist which leaves everyone open for a possible future scumread.
He then moves the attention from EtR to me. He doesn’t give any input on what he thinks of EtR / tau or the Grape meta. He does give a good explanation of why EtR isn’t a good lynch when asked.
In #536 DV discredits me bigtime by not accepting I was widely townread before my EtR vote. Which I really was.
DV’s case on me in #554 has no content to it. He’s played with me tons of times and doesn’t seem to know me one bit.
Basically what DV is doing is white-knighting EtR and shading me while leaving everyone else in sort of a null-pile in his T/S.
Town
KJ / Grape (claim)
Tom (still building the world)
LW (hasn’t done anything I dislike since his early wagon dissolved)
Lean town
Tau (Mindmelding here and there, gambit would be very weird coming from scum)
Rodemy (not afraid to take a different stance than most)
Mind (there’s a conviction to his posts that I like)
Vaimes (Mindmelds)
EtR (With both of them gaining an ability when the other dies, the most likely constellation of the neighbourhood is t/t)
Null
GJ (no posts)
Riku (not enough content for a real read. Maybe leaning scum just a tad more than leaning town)
Scum
Lngrr (tau’s case)
Tubba (putting EtR at L-1 with a naked vote)
Kami (haven’t liked anything he’s posted)
DV (see above)
I’ve spent hours on this and need to do some other things today. I’ll continue on Tuesday. I’m on page 12.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Tom fair enough I read your post much more as a leading rhetorical tool than a question.
@Riku you do realize that by advertising your style you reduce it's effectiveness. And by being so self aware of it people are encouraged to make pure activity reads when they shouldn't.
I've requested a replacement. This isn't a playstyle thing, the business I work for is shutting down.
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
The fact that he doesn't RVS vote is a thing, but also a thing is he didn't vote in a way that drew attention to his not voting. Scum don't like to make enemies, but scum usually don't draw attention to them not voting.
280 is a little weird. My first instinct is it's a joke with the ABC list but the last line feels serious. It also feels like he's scumreading Last despite everything leading up not really equaling a scumread. His next few posts detail that he is in fact scumreading him, but the progression up to this point is pretty nonexistant.
Also, given how much he's talked about him at this point... I'd have expected a vote maybe at some point?
In 350, he answers my question about Grape... but seems to forget he was addressing it to me? "I agree with tom and it looks good for KJ" feels weird when he's talking to me. Slight level of disconnect.
Votes LnGrrR in 364 for Tau's reason and this is the first time he actually mentions LnGrrR. Zero progression here either.
In 468, he says we need to flip both EtR and Tau, but Tau "seems way townie to him. He later says he only wants to flip one of them.
I'm thinking actually he's handling Tau kinda weird. Starts out following him on LnGrrR, then wants to flip him despite being a townread, then he only wants to flip not Tau later. If Tubba is scum, Tau is worth a look for this.
In 469 he forgets to vote EtR. I find this significant because it makes me think they maybe aren't buddies. I feel like if a scum is going to vote a buddy, his intent to do so is probably at the forefront of his mind when posting. It's a necessary evil, one that a scum doesn't do lightly.
A case could be made that scum are less likely to forget to vote period, actually. Most scum would do EVERYTHING intentionally, not just vote for other scum.
I also initially thought that EtR should have just outed Tau, like Tubba suggests in 550. I can see that thought coming from town.
One thing I'm noticing about Tubba is his scumreads seem to start from nowhere and sometimes get more intense as he posts. This happened with LW (64/131280/290/350/363) and again here with EtR (468/469/474/497/559/565). Didn't happen with LnGrrR, but his LnGrrR thing was just before Tau's EtR post, so that may have been interrupted?
In 565, responding to me and Grape talking about my thinking that scum wouldn't think to change the team like EtR did. He responds by throwing mud at EtR and kinda defending Tau a bit. His response has actually nothing to do with the point I was making.
So. 598. I kinda wanna say that the fact that he asks about what happens if he's scum before he asked about him being town is a bit of Freud coming out to play. I'm not the greatest at diagnosing these kind of tells though so IDK for sure.
Anyway, this entire post is basically saying "we need to lynch EtR no matter my flip." He seems very sure of this. He ad hominem's Rhand in 605 for this exact line of thought for 'not critically thinking'.
So lets do a critical thinking dive into this post then. See if that was merited.
So Tubba is basically asking Tom if his flip would affect whether EtR still needs to flip (in the context of Tubba being one of the new scumlist that EtR was trying to signal). Answer is probably no. Flipping any of that list and having them flip scum doesn't make EtR less likely to be scum.
But that's not what Rhand or I are saying. The post is you telegraphing the next lynch after you flip scum... which isn't a thing town typically does.
HOWEVER. Reading this in the context of Tubba saying "you completely missed my point" and being frustrated by that could draw this response of "you're not critically thinking" as well as the sarcasm in 623 and on towards Last.
I'm concluding it as null because Town can be frustrated because their post got taken wrong, but so can Scum. For scum it would be more a variation on CFTWR than anything else. But the response was not just out of nowhere like I'd originally thought it was.
In 750, he says EtR's vote analysis is a better look for him but says we still need to solve the two of them, or it'll be like Ghostbusters and we'll get bogged down in GambitGate. Given the situation he in Ghostbusters alluded to in 791, I'm hesitant to call this fearmongering outright. I'm gonna conclude that it was probably a thing perhaps to be feared and maybe that is a legit statement.
Still not ignoring the whole "independent of my reads on EtR/Tau, at least one needs to flip" thing. That is still happening.
I'm also trying to wrap my head around his thing to LW. He'll regret shooting him (Tubba) regardless of his (LW's) alignment... Does scum say that? I actually don't know.
I'm making a note that he's still stubbornly sticking to his guns in his discussion with tom via 847
So 751 I legit can't tell if it's sarcasm. I'm guessing not? The use of an exclamation point is throwing me a bit.
Assuming it's not, this is just a poor reason to continue scumreading EtR. This feels like he's trying to convince himself that scum!EtR doesn't just outing Tau immediately despite thinking the contrary. When you think about it, outing Tau is 100% the most likely scum move because it gets EtR a bunch of town points AND gets a free mislynch that doesn't backspash on any of his buddies.
In 869, the way he says "Knowingly or not, when EtR didn't immediately out Tau he softclaimed scum" gives me a "welp, I can't not scumread him now." easy scumread that I'd put more in scum territory than town. I'm also not seeing Tubba having any kind of "why aren't people seeing what I'm seeing" that comes with the "he obviously softclaimed scum" of this post.
Tubba explains his progression on Tau/EtR in 899. I don't believe specifically what he's saying about Tau. He was always townreading him. I believe I've shown that. I also don't think that given that he's consistantly made the points that Tau compoletely fooled him in Friends and Enemies that he gives his such an easy pass this game. Tau isn't acting much differently to F&E this game. Where's the townread coming from? Why isn't he more paranoid of that slot?
DV's explanation of his townread on EtR is pretty not up to snuff, so 979 makes sense.
And finally in 988 he asks me to prove him scum, DV calls that circular logic, then Tubba makes 993 saying my case sucked (and therefore the sarcasm was warranted) and asks DV what besides that one scummy post warrants a scumread. I feel like town!Tubba would have questioned me on that if he thought my reasoning was so bad.
So In Conclusion
No Progression On Scumreads
Tubba's scumreads generally come out of nowhere and seem to grow in intensity without much progression. It's more in line with scum faking a read than a genuine scumread. I looked over his ISO in Ghostbusters and Friends and Enemies to see if I saw the same patterns there and he's more explainy in those games. More open. I know where his scumreads came from either when he made them or shortly thereafter.
Also worth noting is that posts like 565 where he is pushing hard against EtR even going so far as to try and dissuade me from coming to the conclusion that EtR making a new list is weird, despite not really having non-gambit based reasons to do so.
Not Enough (& Potentially Fake) Townreads
He also doesn't have much in the way of Townreads this game, aside from Tau and that... kinda it? Scum would obviously want more options so townreading people could limit those options. He's also not as paranoid as I'd guess he should be of Tau given how much he fooled him in F&E.
Scumread Of EtR
His scumread on EtR is one he's talked a lot about, and he doesn't seem to wanna give it up. He seems to have taken a "he scumslipped!" line of thought that leads people to just resign themselves to scumreads and seems okay with that. I also feel like he's gone to some lengths to stubbornly keep scumreading him (see his discussion with tom, and 751) potentially ignoring all evidence to maintain it.
Freudian Slip?
He made post 598, in which he suggests that we continue trying to lynch EtR if he flips scum. I have a strong feeling that this is a tell of some sort. It's just a weird thought for town to have, especially when you ask about the hypothetical that you flip scum before town. I'm aware of the context, but this is where my gut's leaning here.
He's SCUM. Probably not with EtR, maybe with Tau.
I'm not gonna unvote GJ just yet though because I want pressure on him to answer me but now you know my thoughts on the subject.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I really should’ve V/LA’d this weekend, it was more demanding then I had anticipated.
@KJ
This is a brief rundown of my scum pool. I’m not feeling telling townies why o think they’re townie so scummies can trip me up. I’m also tired and cantankerous.
(@D_V, feel free to mock this list and me/s)
Rhand
All over the place with votes and not really backing them up or basing them on anything. Screams scum looking for a safe place to bin a townie day one.
EtR
Gambitgate looms large for me, coupled with some antispew behaviour after the fact. I liked oneish of their posts, but really I just need the flip to clear the clutter.
Tau
Where did Tau go after the gambit scenario they unleashed? Tau seemed townier to me over EtR, but why the radio silence? Is this a three layer inception gambit where boneheads like me run people up for Snowjob Tau?
Killjoy
The more I reread his original case on me the worse it seems. It was so early, and the behavioural read he claims just doesn’t feel real. The only game I can think of that wouldn’t fit the meta he described would be the D&D themed team game where I was hamming up a role play thing.
LnGrr
Has just felt very soft this whole game, like they’re trying to shape themselves to what the group consensus is.
Null
Tom-seems like the smart way to play with Tom. I want to be with “the cool kids” too much, don’t want to get pocketed.
Kami-Am I bad and Kami clever? I understand Gambitgate, but I can also concede the point that it makes a great stalking horse.
Vaimes-what’s up Vaimes?
Grape-seems like townGrape, has the green check from KJ, but I’m not sure I trust KJ. His suggestion to lynch my wagon was extreme.
Town
D_V-shaking trees? Check. Rattling cages? Check. Scorching the earth? Not yet.
GJ-not familiar with GJ yet, but I appreciate a healthy skepticism with a dash of sass.
Rodemy-Kami first mentioned this wasn’t the same Rod as Ghostbusters and I agree. That game was likely an anomaly with Rod being outed early, but he’s been consistent, if a little absent.
LastWhisper-all over the place, but at least 75% of their questions were ones I was thinking about. I don’t perceive an agenda from their freneticism in the same way of Rhand.
If I forgot you it’s because you’re forgettable and my brain feels like porridge.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I’m all over the place with votes eh Tubba?
I’ve voted Lngr in RVS, Grape when I thought I caught him with meta, EtR because I didn’t check my role pm after his claim, Grape again until KJ outed his N0 result and then switched to Kami who I’m still voting.
Not counting RVS that’s a whopping 3 people.
Sure is a whole lot of not killing EtR going on in here.
People are doing a whole lot of great and interesting analysis that I would find more meaningful if we didn't have a clear issue to resolve. I'm fine with switching to Rhand only because it's still part of that scumteam.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Sure is a whole lot of not killing EtR going on in here.
People are doing a whole lot of great and interesting analysis that I would find more meaningful if we didn't have a clear issue to resolve. I'm fine with switching to Rhand only because it's still part of that scumteam.
unvote vote Rhand
“We have a clear issue to resolve (meaning EtR), so I’m gonna vote the biggest wagon instead.”
Do you really believe (as has been pointed out tons of time) that scum!EtR has 3 known buddies and falls for a trap set up by a supposed 5th scum?
I could understand it if you want EtR’s flip, but randomly flipping me, LW or tom isn’t going to tell you anything.
I have severe doubts Tau is scum. If we would have lynched EtR after that gambit and EtR flipped town, then the whole thing might blow up in his face toMorrow. Way too big a risk to take as scum to get one townie lynched.
And if he does it to unlock his ability, they could just NK EtR instead.
I really want to hear more from both EtR and Tau. I still very much believe there is scum in Rhand/Tom/DV. I hope Riku goes okay with his employer going under. I think KA isn't the worst target for the day. I think KJ is obviously townie and people should just accept his clear of me and force scum to NK us.
I think the best wagons for today are Rhand, EtR, KA, LnGrrrR, and maybe GJ/tom/DV but there really isn't enough there that they should be. I don't have a good feel for this game and I really hope that we get lucky and kill the scum RB because I don't want to have to think about wisp after toDay.
The most annoying thing about this game is none of my scum reads make sense with each other for reasons beyond normal bussing type stuff but it's too early to worry about that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
What Kami is doing is abusing this situation to avoid talking about literally anything else.
Before the EtR/tau thing he had one weak scumread (LW), and ever since it happened, he has ONLY talked about lynching EtR or one of tom, LW or me.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I think Tubba is just /barning the general town feel on tau/EtR at that point (Tau town, EtR possible scum). I don't think it really says anything about tau's alignment if Tubba flips scum.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@grape
We pretty much have the same list, uhhm what about the scum RB? And why don't you want to deal with me anymore? You can honestly think I'm the most obnoxious player in this game
Rhand and johnny are people i wouldn't mind swinging. Along with mind and lngrr still.
Kami less so but the new wrinkle where he thinks lynching anyone in the team etr named is just as good is...
Idk does he think etr is exactly town or scum that named his whole team and there's no room in his worldview for scum wifoming somehow?
Bah
I am of the opinion that those who say/imply "This is scummy!" while also doing it tend to be subconsciously revealing their alignment. Sure, better players can do that to disguise their meta, but even good players trip up sometimes.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Guessing this is to me, but I have no clue what you mean by that statement.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
try again.
So are you going with the "It's poor play" explanation instead? Or... dramatic? Over the top? Feel free to explain in more clarity/detail.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Basically, you are defending Grape over something so small, that it feels fake.
Grape is not confirmed town
No. I merely pointed out the absolute ridiculousness of it. Why are you so attatched to this argument? You are calling me out for something that is very NAI. Like, you want to make it SEEM like it's scummy, and i can only see that kind of mindset coming from scum.
I am not defending Grape; I am saying it feels slimy to try and manipulate someone that you feel is town into attacking someone that you don't think is scum. Instead of making the attack on Grape himself (because he knows it would look scummy if Grape flips town after KJ'S claim), he tries to get DV amped up to go after him instead to muddy the waters.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
You are the one that tried to point out the fact that I was being hypocritical and seeing scum motivation when in fact i was not. YOu basically created a narrative of me calling grape scummy for voting 3 times in a post, which i did not. And by doing so it felt like you are trying to defend he apparently town confirmed Grape (because it's super safe, right?) and pushing scum!Rodemy over such a small thing.
I can sense when people are trying to mislynch me and this feels 100% like that.
If you are finding me scummy for finding something else scummy, you are going to end up with a lot of people on your scum list. And I wasn't calling you out; I was noting it. For something that isn't a big deal... you are making a big deal out of it.
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Methinks thou doth protest too much.
So what was your reason for pointing that out? just for the lulz?
Since you're here, what are your reads on Tubba, GJ, and Kami?
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Which means you are trying to paint me as scum. This doesn't align with what i said or did. So it's false.
You are creating your own narrative about that one specific part of the post and calling me scummy for it.
DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE THIS? Am i being dumb?
Why did you say this if you don't believe it?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
WHAT. DO. YOU. MEAN "I never called it scummy"
ARE YOU READING WHAT YOU TYPE!?
You: Finding suspicion in my post.
Me: Explaining that people who say something is bad/weird/lulz then doing it them self is suspicious.
You: I never said it was scummy!
Me: Explain what you meant by it.
You: YOU CALLED ME SCUM DIE SCUM!
Me: *Pikachu face*
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'm done arguing. Let's lynch him.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Spoilered quotes first (when I think they’re important enough to quote), thoughts after that.
RVS and coming out of RVS:
Tubba’s non-vote in #48 is weird.
Tau is over-explaining in #53.
Zdtsd makes a weak entrance in #62, correctly pointed out by tau in #63.
Tom’s #68-69 are decent, as is KJ’s #70
LW gets better in #79
@LW: did you intentionally draw a wagon on you to analyse it?
Now that I know what KJ claimed and I see #84, I’m gonna treat KJ and Grape as confirmed town. It’s either that or scum together, and I doubt they would tie themselves like that as s/s.
LW’s #86 is pretty good, although I don’t agree with his conclusion on Rodemy.
Tom’s #99 shows tom is making a town!block. If he doesn’t throw people out of that too easily in the future, he’s probably town. (for further reference: townblock here is KJ / LW / Rodemy)
Town
Grape / KJ (because of KJ’s claim later on)
Tom (slowly building the world, that’s how he plays)
Rodemy (solid vote on LW)
Lean town
LW (decent analyses)
Null
EtR
Mindreaver
August / GJ
Lngr
Lean scum
Tau (overexplaining)
Tubba (lack of RVS vote)
Zdtsd/DV (weak entrance)
Scum
Ruma (unexplained KJ vote)
Kami (weak LW vote late on wagon)
game shifts to the Grape wagon
LW, me and tom vote Grape.
KJ starts a Tubba wagon, trying to get me to give other reads.
Lngr stays stuck in that too in #127.
Rodemy has a way broader view in the next posts.
Tubba’s assessment of LW vs Rod in #131 seems fair
Mind’s tom vote in #132 is bad.
Lngr’s #170 almost sounds like a confession.
#184 is a very good post by mindreaver, followed by a good vote on Grape.
Kami says nothing at all in #193
Tau’s vote on Grape in #198 is rather weak.
#204 shows LW has a very good grasp on the game. I think that makes him solid town.
I agree with most of Tau’s readslist in #226
I drop the Grape meta bomb, which I was convinced was a good find. Turns out I’m probably all wrong. The reactions of people are useful though.
Ruma ignores it and only talks about himself at first and gives a non-answer to it later.
Tom does the legwork to check it and agrees.
Kami says he loves the idea, checks Grape’s meta and comes with the opposite conclusion. I’m really sure that he’s only saying that because he knows I’m wrong about Grape’s alignment, because what I found really is there.
Mind and Rodemy seem not to have read the game when they first post.
LW attacks Kami (correctly I think)
Tubba adds nothing useful
Mind did see it: asks Rodemy about his view.
Vaimes comes in with a KA vote (which I like), then has reasons to add his vote to the Grape wagon
Rodemy adds his vote to Grape too with new reasons.
Tau is also doing legwork on the meta tell. Disagrees too but shows the work. Comes in with a good case on Lngr later.
Tom posts a new towncircle, which is still the same + me. Looks good.
Conclusions: tom, Mind, Vaimes, Rodemy and Tau looking good. Kami, Tubba and Riku looking bad. And the case on Lngr is solid.
Tau does his EtR
Quick EtR voters before EtR posts: Grape, Mind (very convinced)
I don’t understand tom’s Mind vote.
Kami’s vote on EtR after all of EtR’s posts is strange. He’s overconfident that EtR did give up his buddies. Which would be a 5-person scum team with the buddy list Kami accepts to be true.
LW correctly votes Kami for that.
Vaimes comes to the conclusion that an EtR lynch is correct, but not necessarily that it solves the game
Rodemy goes against tau instead of EtR
Tubba does a naked vote, bringing EtR in hammer range. Tau unvotes in response.
Riku agrees with a tau lynch
Conclusions: Mind’s conviction comes off as townie. Which is a sharp contrast with Kami’s. tom looks a bit less good with going after mind. I like the reactions of LW and Vaimes. Rodemy starting a tau wagon looks good too. Strongly dislike Tubba’s naked hammer range.
DV starts participating
He then moves the attention from EtR to me. He doesn’t give any input on what he thinks of EtR / tau or the Grape meta. He does give a good explanation of why EtR isn’t a good lynch when asked.
In #536 DV discredits me bigtime by not accepting I was widely townread before my EtR vote. Which I really was.
DV’s case on me in #554 has no content to it. He’s played with me tons of times and doesn’t seem to know me one bit.
Basically what DV is doing is white-knighting EtR and shading me while leaving everyone else in sort of a null-pile in his T/S.
Town
KJ / Grape (claim)
Tom (still building the world)
LW (hasn’t done anything I dislike since his early wagon dissolved)
Lean town
Tau (Mindmelding here and there, gambit would be very weird coming from scum)
Rodemy (not afraid to take a different stance than most)
Mind (there’s a conviction to his posts that I like)
Vaimes (Mindmelds)
EtR (With both of them gaining an ability when the other dies, the most likely constellation of the neighbourhood is t/t)
Null
GJ (no posts)
Riku (not enough content for a real read. Maybe leaning scum just a tad more than leaning town)
Scum
Lngrr (tau’s case)
Tubba (putting EtR at L-1 with a naked vote)
Kami (haven’t liked anything he’s posted)
DV (see above)
I’ve spent hours on this and need to do some other things today. I’ll continue on Tuesday. I’m on page 12.
Because his 1097 makes literally no sense to me.
Well that just.. boosts my confidence. :/
I've requested a replacement. This isn't a playstyle thing, the business I work for is shutting down.
Starting with Tubba. ISO
The fact that he doesn't RVS vote is a thing, but also a thing is he didn't vote in a way that drew attention to his not voting. Scum don't like to make enemies, but scum usually don't draw attention to them not voting.
280 is a little weird. My first instinct is it's a joke with the ABC list but the last line feels serious. It also feels like he's scumreading Last despite everything leading up not really equaling a scumread. His next few posts detail that he is in fact scumreading him, but the progression up to this point is pretty nonexistant.
Also, given how much he's talked about him at this point... I'd have expected a vote maybe at some point?
In 350, he answers my question about Grape... but seems to forget he was addressing it to me? "I agree with tom and it looks good for KJ" feels weird when he's talking to me. Slight level of disconnect.
Votes LnGrrR in 364 for Tau's reason and this is the first time he actually mentions LnGrrR. Zero progression here either.
In 468, he says we need to flip both EtR and Tau, but Tau "seems way townie to him. He later says he only wants to flip one of them.
I'm thinking actually he's handling Tau kinda weird. Starts out following him on LnGrrR, then wants to flip him despite being a townread, then he only wants to flip not Tau later. If Tubba is scum, Tau is worth a look for this.
In 469 he forgets to vote EtR. I find this significant because it makes me think they maybe aren't buddies. I feel like if a scum is going to vote a buddy, his intent to do so is probably at the forefront of his mind when posting. It's a necessary evil, one that a scum doesn't do lightly.
A case could be made that scum are less likely to forget to vote period, actually. Most scum would do EVERYTHING intentionally, not just vote for other scum.
I also initially thought that EtR should have just outed Tau, like Tubba suggests in 550. I can see that thought coming from town.
One thing I'm noticing about Tubba is his scumreads seem to start from nowhere and sometimes get more intense as he posts. This happened with LW (64/131280/290/350/363) and again here with EtR (468/469/474/497/559/565). Didn't happen with LnGrrR, but his LnGrrR thing was just before Tau's EtR post, so that may have been interrupted?
In 565, responding to me and Grape talking about my thinking that scum wouldn't think to change the team like EtR did. He responds by throwing mud at EtR and kinda defending Tau a bit. His response has actually nothing to do with the point I was making.
So. 598. I kinda wanna say that the fact that he asks about what happens if he's scum before he asked about him being town is a bit of Freud coming out to play. I'm not the greatest at diagnosing these kind of tells though so IDK for sure.
Anyway, this entire post is basically saying "we need to lynch EtR no matter my flip." He seems very sure of this. He ad hominem's Rhand in 605 for this exact line of thought for 'not critically thinking'.
So lets do a critical thinking dive into this post then. See if that was merited.
So Tubba is basically asking Tom if his flip would affect whether EtR still needs to flip (in the context of Tubba being one of the new scumlist that EtR was trying to signal). Answer is probably no. Flipping any of that list and having them flip scum doesn't make EtR less likely to be scum.
But that's not what Rhand or I are saying. The post is you telegraphing the next lynch after you flip scum... which isn't a thing town typically does.
HOWEVER. Reading this in the context of Tubba saying "you completely missed my point" and being frustrated by that could draw this response of "you're not critically thinking" as well as the sarcasm in 623 and on towards Last.
I'm concluding it as null because Town can be frustrated because their post got taken wrong, but so can Scum. For scum it would be more a variation on CFTWR than anything else. But the response was not just out of nowhere like I'd originally thought it was.
In 750, he says EtR's vote analysis is a better look for him but says we still need to solve the two of them, or it'll be like Ghostbusters and we'll get bogged down in GambitGate. Given the situation he in Ghostbusters alluded to in 791, I'm hesitant to call this fearmongering outright. I'm gonna conclude that it was probably a thing perhaps to be feared and maybe that is a legit statement.
Still not ignoring the whole "independent of my reads on EtR/Tau, at least one needs to flip" thing. That is still happening.
I'm also trying to wrap my head around his thing to LW. He'll regret shooting him (Tubba) regardless of his (LW's) alignment... Does scum say that? I actually don't know.
I'm making a note that he's still stubbornly sticking to his guns in his discussion with tom via 847
So 751 I legit can't tell if it's sarcasm. I'm guessing not? The use of an exclamation point is throwing me a bit.
Assuming it's not, this is just a poor reason to continue scumreading EtR. This feels like he's trying to convince himself that scum!EtR doesn't just outing Tau immediately despite thinking the contrary. When you think about it, outing Tau is 100% the most likely scum move because it gets EtR a bunch of town points AND gets a free mislynch that doesn't backspash on any of his buddies.
In 869, the way he says "Knowingly or not, when EtR didn't immediately out Tau he softclaimed scum" gives me a "welp, I can't not scumread him now." easy scumread that I'd put more in scum territory than town. I'm also not seeing Tubba having any kind of "why aren't people seeing what I'm seeing" that comes with the "he obviously softclaimed scum" of this post.
Tubba explains his progression on Tau/EtR in 899. I don't believe specifically what he's saying about Tau. He was always townreading him. I believe I've shown that. I also don't think that given that he's consistantly made the points that Tau compoletely fooled him in Friends and Enemies that he gives his such an easy pass this game. Tau isn't acting much differently to F&E this game. Where's the townread coming from? Why isn't he more paranoid of that slot?
DV's explanation of his townread on EtR is pretty not up to snuff, so 979 makes sense.
And finally in 988 he asks me to prove him scum, DV calls that circular logic, then Tubba makes 993 saying my case sucked (and therefore the sarcasm was warranted) and asks DV what besides that one scummy post warrants a scumread. I feel like town!Tubba would have questioned me on that if he thought my reasoning was so bad.
So In Conclusion
Also worth noting is that posts like 565 where he is pushing hard against EtR even going so far as to try and dissuade me from coming to the conclusion that EtR making a new list is weird, despite not really having non-gambit based reasons to do so.
He's SCUM. Probably not with EtR, maybe with Tau.
I'm not gonna unvote GJ just yet though because I want pressure on him to answer me but now you know my thoughts on the subject.
Tubba: I'm still waiting on that t/s list bb.
@KJ
This is a brief rundown of my scum pool. I’m not feeling telling townies why o think they’re townie so scummies can trip me up. I’m also tired and cantankerous.
(@D_V, feel free to mock this list and me/s)
Rhand
All over the place with votes and not really backing them up or basing them on anything. Screams scum looking for a safe place to bin a townie day one.
EtR
Gambitgate looms large for me, coupled with some antispew behaviour after the fact. I liked oneish of their posts, but really I just need the flip to clear the clutter.
Tau
Where did Tau go after the gambit scenario they unleashed? Tau seemed townier to me over EtR, but why the radio silence? Is this a three layer inception gambit where boneheads like me run people up for Snowjob Tau?
Killjoy
The more I reread his original case on me the worse it seems. It was so early, and the behavioural read he claims just doesn’t feel real. The only game I can think of that wouldn’t fit the meta he described would be the D&D themed team game where I was hamming up a role play thing.
LnGrr
Has just felt very soft this whole game, like they’re trying to shape themselves to what the group consensus is.
Null
Tom-seems like the smart way to play with Tom. I want to be with “the cool kids” too much, don’t want to get pocketed.
Kami-Am I bad and Kami clever? I understand Gambitgate, but I can also concede the point that it makes a great stalking horse.
Vaimes-what’s up Vaimes?
Grape-seems like townGrape, has the green check from KJ, but I’m not sure I trust KJ. His suggestion to lynch my wagon was extreme.
Town
D_V-shaking trees? Check. Rattling cages? Check. Scorching the earth? Not yet.
GJ-not familiar with GJ yet, but I appreciate a healthy skepticism with a dash of sass.
Rodemy-Kami first mentioned this wasn’t the same Rod as Ghostbusters and I agree. That game was likely an anomaly with Rod being outed early, but he’s been consistent, if a little absent.
LastWhisper-all over the place, but at least 75% of their questions were ones I was thinking about. I don’t perceive an agenda from their freneticism in the same way of Rhand.
If I forgot you it’s because you’re forgettable and my brain feels like porridge.
I’ve voted Lngr in RVS, Grape when I thought I caught him with meta, EtR because I didn’t check my role pm after his claim, Grape again until KJ outed his N0 result and then switched to Kami who I’m still voting.
Not counting RVS that’s a whopping 3 people.
People are doing a whole lot of great and interesting analysis that I would find more meaningful if we didn't have a clear issue to resolve. I'm fine with switching to Rhand only because it's still part of that scumteam.
unvote
vote Rhand
Unvote Rhand
See you in the morning.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Tom not scum with Tubba. Nor likely is Etr.
“We have a clear issue to resolve (meaning EtR), so I’m gonna vote the biggest wagon instead.”
Do you really believe (as has been pointed out tons of time) that scum!EtR has 3 known buddies and falls for a trap set up by a supposed 5th scum?
I could understand it if you want EtR’s flip, but randomly flipping me, LW or tom isn’t going to tell you anything.
I have severe doubts Tau is scum. If we would have lynched EtR after that gambit and EtR flipped town, then the whole thing might blow up in his face toMorrow. Way too big a risk to take as scum to get one townie lynched.
And if he does it to unlock his ability, they could just NK EtR instead.
I think the best wagons for today are Rhand, EtR, KA, LnGrrrR, and maybe GJ/tom/DV but there really isn't enough there that they should be. I don't have a good feel for this game and I really hope that we get lucky and kill the scum RB because I don't want to have to think about wisp after toDay.
Killing scum is valuable even if it tells me nothing else.
Before the EtR/tau thing he had one weak scumread (LW), and ever since it happened, he has ONLY talked about lynching EtR or one of tom, LW or me.
This is textbook scum coasting.
Throw Kami in Taus place then.
Refresh me on your GJ scum read
We pretty much have the same list, uhhm what about the scum RB? And why don't you want to deal with me anymore? You can honestly think I'm the most obnoxious player in this game
@kami
Your play is bad and you should feel bad
Still not changing my vote from Rhand
Rhand calling out Kami moves him up a notch... but then he doesn't vote him.
@Rhand, why no vote there?
@Tubba, what did you think of GJ encouraging DV to go after Grape? Is it towny, scummy, or null?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Rhand and johnny are people i wouldn't mind swinging. Along with mind and lngrr still.
Kami less so but the new wrinkle where he thinks lynching anyone in the team etr named is just as good is...
Idk does he think etr is exactly town or scum that named his whole team and there's no room in his worldview for scum wifoming somehow?
Bah