@Tom getting into why your tubba reasoning feels fake, I don't fully understand your positional reads. Usually I can sort of understand a part of it but not always. This one I can't follow. I get that it's in relation to the EtR stuff and the one Tubba post anyone has pointed to (wanting to kill both EtR and Tau) but I'm not getting the why. Just feels like a because you said so.
Also back to an earlier point you made, I'm not saying the other wagons are too hard to evaluate. I'm saying since unlike this one they were either legit or RVS that the wagon itself is more insightful. The happenings around the other ones might be more worthwhile but as a wagon that is the one most likely to be scum pushed (presumably by one of you, Rhand, or maybe DV).
@Wisp So not that I've given reasons (the post with the spoiler in it being when I started digging in) what do you think of it? Given that you share my opinion that the wagon never should have happened what do you think of it.
Looks like the only significant thing that happened today was Mind/DV yelling at each other a lot. I'm pressed for time and it didn't look alignment indicative, so skipping it.
Let's lynch EtR to unravel the double reverse reacharound trick thing or LnGR for playing up the I'm-a-waffly-villager act. Or everyone who voted Tubba, someone brought that up and I thought it sounded like fun (fake edit: was Grape. Thanks Grape).
This Day doesn't need another seven hundred wallposts about nothing.
Still have to read the people I reminded myself to read. GJ looks like he's ignoring me and it's making me wonder things.
I’m going to wait with explaining why until he has a few more posts in because it’s meta and I don’t want to spoonfeed him what the difference between his town and scum game is before having enough evidence that this is the scum game.
I didn’t think I would ever say this, but I think tom is town.
Miiight be a bit too early for a tom townread? <120 posts.
I can't recall when I started townreading him, but I think I've picked up on the nuances of his play a little more thanks to him getting mislynched to hell and back on DLP.
But then again, I’m drunk. What do I know.
@KJ: you’re getting townpoints for getting Lngr to react like that.
Ick. Potential LnGR buddy. One flips scum, nuke the other.
Rhand's reaction to Tau/EtR is kinda mixed. I like that he comes around to EtR being scummier than Reaverb, but I dislike that his first thought was that Reaverb was just sowing chaos for chaos' sake.
So far all of his scumreads minus EtR look town. I'm coming around to townreading Kami, but it's mostly because he's articulating my thoughts on lynching EtR better than I could. ~Probably not AI, eh.
Kinda wanna lynch Rhand or LnGR here, if support for EtR totally collapses.
If DV is scum here, it would be a pretty weird time to decide to stop pushing people for being bad.
Prolly town.
@grape perhaps someday ill explain it.
For now, making tubba a counterwagon to etr for a bit accomplished a fair amount imo. You seem to agree. So youre welcome?
So not that I've given reasons (the post with the spoiler in it being when I started digging in) what do you think of it? Given that you share my opinion that the wagon never should have happened what do you think of it.
I stated that I reread him, and thought he was more townie than scummie which was my first evaluation, not that the wagon should have never happened? so as of right now I dont have an opinion, doubtful that both rhand and tom are scum, so idk, I mean Tom's been consistently giving out his thoughts, which in all honesty is just nai, and a level-0 read on Rhand, his pop-ins can be from scum just trying to interject their thoughts and push their narrative, there is also his vote on ETR, and I mean looking back at his Grape push, it was pretty bad
Looks like the only significant thing that happened today was Mind/DV yelling at each other a lot. I'm pressed for time and it didn't look alignment indicative, so skipping it.
Let's lynch EtR to unravel the double reverse reacharound trick thing or LnGR for playing up the I'm-a-waffly-villager act. Or everyone who voted Tubba, someone brought that up and I thought it sounded like fun (fake edit: was Grape. Thanks Grape).
This Day doesn't need another seven hundred wallposts about nothing.
Still have to read the people I reminded myself to read. GJ looks like he's ignoring me and it's making me wonder things.
The only reason to read it is if he pushes me again. Otherwise yeah I'd skip.
@Tom I mean it helped convince me that at least 1 of you, Rhand, and DV are scum which you clearly don't agree with so I'm not sure it accomplished anything. Also why is Riku pastel green? Doesn't seem to be enough to evaluate him yet either way.
@Wisp if when you read him you reached the conclusion that he wasn't scummy and so has everyone else who read Tubba then I'm going to reach the conclusion that it's a wagon that never should have happened. Though I appreciate that we are on such different pages my agreeing with you has caused you to to change your mind on the read.
@Tom I mean it helped convince me that at least 1 of you, Rhand, and DV are scum which you clearly don't agree with so I'm not sure it accomplished anything. Also why is Riku pastel green? Doesn't seem to be enough to evaluate him yet either way
it helped convince me that tubba probably isnt. Not really my problem you arbitrarily chose a wagon to call scummier than any others.
Could be rhand though. Still think his metaing of you looked townie regardless of being correct, but dont like his stance on tubba or kami at all.
Kinda want to scumread him for it since i townread him earlier and i don't want to look bad if he does end up scum but im pretty much at null.
Ruma is one of the only agendaless reactions to tau/etr. Him and rodemy stood out as actually not knowing what to make of it.
My primary motive for pushing Tubba was the kill both Tau and ETR comment he made. I also disagree he isnt scummy.
that was a scummy ass post
It makes a bit more sense with the "and if not id rather know now to avoid the distraction" leftover from ghostbusters.
Think towntubba ought to be able to get beyond that though. See our conversation.
My primary motive for pushing Tubba was the kill both Tau and ETR comment he made. I also disagree he isnt scummy.
that was a scummy ass post
It makes a bit more sense with the "and if not id rather know now to avoid the distraction" leftover from ghostbusters.
Think towntubba ought to be able to get beyond that though. See our conversation.
whats your opinion on Grape's then? Different but kinda the same?
My primary motive for pushing Tubba was the kill both Tau and ETR comment he made. I also disagree he isnt scummy.
that was a scummy ass post
It makes a bit more sense with the "and if not id rather know now to avoid the distraction" leftover from ghostbusters.
Think towntubba ought to be able to get beyond that though. See our conversation.
whats your opinion on Grape's then? Different but kinda the same?
I'd legit be casing Grape if there wasn't a peek on him.
My primary motive for pushing Tubba was the kill both Tau and ETR comment he made. I also disagree he isnt scummy.
that was a scummy ass post
It makes a bit more sense with the "and if not id rather know now to avoid the distraction" leftover from ghostbusters.
Think towntubba ought to be able to get beyond that though. See our conversation.
whats your opinion on Grape's then? Different but kinda the same?
@Tom I mean it helped convince me that at least 1 of you, Rhand, and DV are scum which you clearly don't agree with so I'm not sure it accomplished anything. Also why is Riku pastel green? Doesn't seem to be enough to evaluate him yet either way
it helped convince me that tubba probably isnt. Not really my problem you arbitrarily chose a wagon to call scummier than any others.
Could be rhand though. Still think his metaing of you looked townie regardless of being correct, but dont like his stance on tubba or kami at all.
Kinda want to scumread him for it since i townread him earlier and i don't want to look bad if he does end up scum but im pretty much at null.
Ruma is one of the only agendaless reactions to tau/etr. Him and rodemy stood out as actually not knowing what to make of it.
You can't just handwave my explanations for why that wagon is more relevant than the others and say it's arbitrary. The scum reads are based off 1 post or your assertions about positioning that I can't follow. It cropped up around the time I'd expect scum to try and hop on a counter wagon. It's suspicious.
I don't think confusion to that is necessarily an agendaless reaction in this situation. But I will say if Riku is scum I'd hard call EtR/Tau as town/town.
@DV I think you're either in a tunnel and wrong or scum. I read his ISO three times, I don't know how anyone could conclude he's scum. Yes he said he wanted to resolve both EtR/Tau. It was much more "bad" than scummy to me.
@Wisp good because I'm definitely selfish enough not to listen to other people.
My primary motive for pushing Tubba was the kill both Tau and ETR comment he made. I also disagree he isnt scummy.
that was a scummy ass post
It makes a bit more sense with the "and if not id rather know now to avoid the distraction" leftover from ghostbusters.
Think towntubba ought to be able to get beyond that though. See our conversation.
whats your opinion on Grape's then? Different but kinda the same?
I'd legit be casing Grape if there wasn't a peek on him.
I'll trust the peek claim for the moment.
same... i really dislike him, but that ******* peek...
I feel so loved. Don't push bad wagons and I won't push you. Easy.
Then you should have pushed Tubba!
Cause that was a bad wagon, which is why I pushed him. I then got off of him after he started talking. You make it seem like I'm on him still, I'm not.
I feel so loved. Don't push bad wagons and I won't push you. Easy.
Then you should have pushed Tubba!
Cause that was a bad wagon, which is why I pushed him. I then got off of him after he started talking. You make it seem like I'm on him still, I'm not.
Because we totally stop looking at behavior after an unvote. Completely invalidates what came before it. Anyway after wisp you look the best off that mess, but not totally clear. I'm glad you and tom aren't pushing him anymore but like do you expect me to set that whole mess aside and forget it happened? I regret not listening to you on Rhand earlier but I'm still not super convinced he's scum.
This is a bit of a hot take but I don't think there has been another bad wagon this game. With the possible exception of rod if you want to count that as a wagon from the early game.
@DV I think you're either in a tunnel and wrong or scum. I read his ISO three times, I don't know how anyone could conclude he's scum. Yes he said he wanted to resolve both EtR/Tau. It was much more "bad" than scummy to me.
I'm not tunneled that's my problem. I'm not asking you to not look at the behavior.
I'm saying your attack doesn't make sense. I'm not still on him.
@Tom I mean it helped convince me that at least 1 of you, Rhand, and DV are scum which you clearly don't agree with so I'm not sure it accomplished anything. Also why is Riku pastel green? Doesn't seem to be enough to evaluate him yet either way
it helped convince me that tubba probably isnt. Not really my problem you arbitrarily chose a wagon to call scummier than any others.
Could be rhand though. Still think his metaing of you looked townie regardless of being correct, but dont like his stance on tubba or kami at all.
Kinda want to scumread him for it since i townread him earlier and i don't want to look bad if he does end up scum but im pretty much at null.
Ruma is one of the only agendaless reactions to tau/etr. Him and rodemy stood out as actually not knowing what to make of it.
You can't just handwave my explanations for why that wagon is more relevant than the others and say it's arbitrary. The scum reads are based off 1 post or your assertions about positioning that I can't follow. It cropped up around the time I'd expect scum to try and hop on a counter wagon. It's suspicious.
I don't think confusion to that is necessarily an agendaless reaction in this situation. But I will say if Riku is scum I'd hard call EtR/Tau as town/town.
i can absolutely handwave your reasons
Tubba was scummy, got wagoned.
Was moderately townie under pressure, it dissipated.
Its not special because you disagree with it.
As for ruma, its obviously pretty minor. Hasnt done much else, and only makes him the lightest possible townread.
But id take his reaction over [wagoning etr without actually thinking about it] 10 times out of 10
@Tom so did you push him or positional counterwagon reasons or because he was scummy? Or both?
@Wisp and DV at least half that wagon was RVS. If you want to call my contributions to it bad then fine. There are two bad wagons but 1 was caused by a combination of RVS and confirmed (fmpov) town trolling for reactions. I'm not as interested in dissecting that one for scum as I am the second one.
And specifically for DV what exactly is my attack that's invalid because you're no longer pushing Tubba?
I thought he might be scum, especially if etr isnt, and exxagerated that a bit to goad a wagon into place, kinda convinced myself on it for a bit, talked with tubba about his stance, understood a little bit and moved back to mindreaver, and might look at the wagon again when i have flips or at least a better idea of etr and tubbas alignments to work with.
More super quick thoughts while taking a break between cleaning up children's sickness:
Still think there is scum on LW wagon and likely kami, his 80 to 90% thing feels like such a made up number
If Kami scum, ETC likely town
I won't rule out Tau for scum given gambit. I have seen scum get away with a lot on MTGS due to wifom. I also think setting up an analysis wall without finding any town points (or even setting up the possibility) is scummy.
And specifically for DV what exactly is my attack that's invalid because you're no longer pushing Tubba?
Because I'm not tunneled? I'm looking at plenty of people. I just think a lot of Tubba's actions are scummy, I put pressure on him. I still don't think he's great town, I'm just happy to leave him alone for a while.
Grr is still always scum here, I'm not backing down from this yet
his evaluation of the game state is weak, it just reeks of mafia trying to get their thoughts in
@DV gotcha. I used tunnel wrong. I used it as in you're holding an incorrect read despite evidence you shouldn't and you're wrong to think that Tubba was ever scummy outside that 1 post. Not as in the standard meaning of being singularly focused on him.
Then we've wasted a ton of digital oxygen but that's a likely outcome. There is never more than 1 scum in that group. I think Tom and Rhand are both much more likely to be scum than DV.
This PoE is made from a collection of things, mainly my thoughts and others thoughts on who can possible be scum or town, and it actually makes sense? obviously theres probably only 4 mafia, but its def a PoE I could actually see
Tau and ETR need to be solved eventually, and we see what comes of the lynch today
Then we've wasted a ton of digital oxygen but that's a likely outcome. There is never more than 1 scum in that group. I think Tom and Rhand are both much more likely to be scum than DV.
Also back to an earlier point you made, I'm not saying the other wagons are too hard to evaluate. I'm saying since unlike this one they were either legit or RVS that the wagon itself is more insightful. The happenings around the other ones might be more worthwhile but as a wagon that is the one most likely to be scum pushed (presumably by one of you, Rhand, or maybe DV).
@Wisp So not that I've given reasons (the post with the spoiler in it being when I started digging in) what do you think of it? Given that you share my opinion that the wagon never should have happened what do you think of it.
Let's lynch EtR to unravel the double reverse reacharound trick thing or LnGR for playing up the I'm-a-waffly-villager act. Or everyone who voted Tubba, someone brought that up and I thought it sounded like fun (fake edit: was Grape. Thanks Grape).
This Day doesn't need another seven hundred wallposts about nothing.
Still have to read the people I reminded myself to read. GJ looks like he's ignoring me and it's making me wonder things.
I'm predicting Riku's ISO is less than a page so I'll start there (fake edit: I was right!). Actually, I'm not gonna give a read on him yet.
Riku, do me a favor and actually give a rundown of your strongest reads. Also vote an actual scumread, unless you want to case Killjoy.
I can't recall when I started townreading him, but I think I've picked up on the nuances of his play a little more thanks to him getting mislynched to hell and back on DLP. Ick. Potential LnGR buddy. One flips scum, nuke the other.
Rhand's reaction to Tau/EtR is kinda mixed. I like that he comes around to EtR being scummier than Reaverb, but I dislike that his first thought was that Reaverb was just sowing chaos for chaos' sake.
So far all of his scumreads minus EtR look town. I'm coming around to townreading Kami, but it's mostly because he's articulating my thoughts on lynching EtR better than I could. ~Probably not AI, eh.
Kinda wanna lynch Rhand or LnGR here, if support for EtR totally collapses.
Vote: Rhand
Should have done this earlier tbh.
Prolly town.
@grape perhaps someday ill explain it.
For now, making tubba a counterwagon to etr for a bit accomplished a fair amount imo. You seem to agree. So youre welcome?
Rhand felt pretty townie when engaged in the thread and kinda scummy on popins.
Its kinda like etr whos mostly been fine but was a bit iffy when rattled by tau
I stated that I reread him, and thought he was more townie than scummie which was my first evaluation, not that the wagon should have never happened? so as of right now I dont have an opinion, doubtful that both rhand and tom are scum, so idk, I mean Tom's been consistently giving out his thoughts, which in all honesty is just nai, and a level-0 read on Rhand, his pop-ins can be from scum just trying to interject their thoughts and push their narrative, there is also his vote on ETR, and I mean looking back at his Grape push, it was pretty bad
I'll re-read him when I get the chance
Last/rod
dv/vaimes
ruma/tau
rhand/tubba/kami
etr/gj
lngrr
mind
Ish
The only reason to read it is if he pushes me again. Otherwise yeah I'd skip.
@Wisp if when you read him you reached the conclusion that he wasn't scummy and so has everyone else who read Tubba then I'm going to reach the conclusion that it's a wagon that never should have happened. Though I appreciate that we are on such different pages my agreeing with you has caused you to to change your mind on the read.
But that's worse than Vote:EtR
And I'm not ready to do that till I hear more from EtR and Tau so I'm going to stick with Vote: Rhand and see where it leads.
Could be rhand though. Still think his metaing of you looked townie regardless of being correct, but dont like his stance on tubba or kami at all.
Kinda want to scumread him for it since i townread him earlier and i don't want to look bad if he does end up scum but im pretty much at null.
Ruma is one of the only agendaless reactions to tau/etr. Him and rodemy stood out as actually not knowing what to make of it.
vote: Rhand
I had him at green, but i've given my thoughts on why he could be possibly red
to me GRR still has one of the highest scum!equities, based on how he has played
It makes a bit more sense with the "and if not id rather know now to avoid the distraction" leftover from ghostbusters.
Think towntubba ought to be able to get beyond that though. See our conversation.
I'd legit be casing Grape if there wasn't a peek on him.
I'll trust the peek claim for the moment.
Disinheritance 2.0?
You can't just handwave my explanations for why that wagon is more relevant than the others and say it's arbitrary. The scum reads are based off 1 post or your assertions about positioning that I can't follow. It cropped up around the time I'd expect scum to try and hop on a counter wagon. It's suspicious.
I don't think confusion to that is necessarily an agendaless reaction in this situation. But I will say if Riku is scum I'd hard call EtR/Tau as town/town.
@DV I think you're either in a tunnel and wrong or scum. I read his ISO three times, I don't know how anyone could conclude he's scum. Yes he said he wanted to resolve both EtR/Tau. It was much more "bad" than scummy to me.
@Wisp good because I'm definitely selfish enough not to listen to other people.
Then you should have pushed Tubba!
Cause that was a bad wagon, which is why I pushed him. I then got off of him after he started talking. You make it seem like I'm on him still, I'm not.
Because we totally stop looking at behavior after an unvote. Completely invalidates what came before it. Anyway after wisp you look the best off that mess, but not totally clear. I'm glad you and tom aren't pushing him anymore but like do you expect me to set that whole mess aside and forget it happened? I regret not listening to you on Rhand earlier but I'm still not super convinced he's scum.
This is a bit of a hot take but I don't think there has been another bad wagon this game. With the possible exception of rod if you want to count that as a wagon from the early game.
I'm not tunneled that's my problem. I'm not asking you to not look at the behavior.
I'm saying your attack doesn't make sense. I'm not still on him.
Tubba was scummy, got wagoned.
Was moderately townie under pressure, it dissipated.
Its not special because you disagree with it.
As for ruma, its obviously pretty minor. Hasnt done much else, and only makes him the lightest possible townread.
But id take his reaction over [wagoning etr without actually thinking about it] 10 times out of 10
@Wisp and DV at least half that wagon was RVS. If you want to call my contributions to it bad then fine. There are two bad wagons but 1 was caused by a combination of RVS and confirmed (fmpov) town trolling for reactions. I'm not as interested in dissecting that one for scum as I am the second one.
And specifically for DV what exactly is my attack that's invalid because you're no longer pushing Tubba?
TOWN
LnGrrrR
LW
Tom
KJ
DV
M1ndreaver
GJ
Vaimes
Grapefruit
EtR
Rhand
Ruma
Tau
Rodemy
Tubba
Kami
SCUM
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Still think there is scum on LW wagon and likely kami, his 80 to 90% thing feels like such a made up number
If Kami scum, ETC likely town
I won't rule out Tau for scum given gambit. I have seen scum get away with a lot on MTGS due to wifom. I also think setting up an analysis wall without finding any town points (or even setting up the possibility) is scummy.
Oh and Vote Kami
Hope this weekend is less stressful
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Because I'm not tunneled? I'm looking at plenty of people. I just think a lot of Tubba's actions are scummy, I put pressure on him. I still don't think he's great town, I'm just happy to leave him alone for a while.
his evaluation of the game state is weak, it just reeks of mafia trying to get their thoughts in
@Lastwhisper Since I saw you use it.
Don't let me forget.
What if me, you, and DV are just town?
Then we've wasted a ton of digital oxygen but that's a likely outcome. There is never more than 1 scum in that group. I think Tom and Rhand are both much more likely to be scum than DV.
EtR
tomsloger
Rhand
LnGrrrR
Rumanshi
This PoE is made from a collection of things, mainly my thoughts and others thoughts on who can possible be scum or town, and it actually makes sense? obviously theres probably only 4 mafia, but its def a PoE I could actually see
Tau and ETR need to be solved eventually, and we see what comes of the lynch today
Thoughts?