Like, I get that we're all on a mission to show our thoughts, but it's just gonna go on and on and on. If GJ doesn't come in with the same block of text, I'll eat my hat.
You've cherry picked my posts. There are plenty of other posts that I clearly argued other things as well too.
I don't know why you think I wouldn't notice you cherry picked my posts.
????
What's the play here mate?
it's every post from your entrance until my comment. Which ones did I miss?
Spicy.
While I have you hear, what were you talking about when you said something along the lines of "you'd eat your hat if I didn't come in and say the same thing"?
How is that spicy?
Did you even bother to verify what he said?
I didn't verify nor confirm, but his implication is know "I gave this range" your response was "no you didn't, you cherry picked". Since he is saying "your full of *****" in a much more polite way, I was curious to see if you were going to show the posts of yours that he missed, since he is in fact, accusing you. If you refuse, I'll probably check, but Mind is right, you look pretty awful than if you went back and did it yourself.
You've cherry picked my posts. There are plenty of other posts that I clearly argued other things as well too.
I don't know why you think I wouldn't notice you cherry picked my posts.
????
What's the play here mate?
it's every post from your entrance until my comment. Which ones did I miss?
Spicy.
While I have you hear, what were you talking about when you said something along the lines of "you'd eat your hat if I didn't come in and say the same thing"?
How is that spicy?
Did you even bother to verify what he said?
I didn't verify nor confirm, but his implication is know "I gave this range" your response was "no you didn't, you cherry picked". Since he is saying "your full of *****" in a much more polite way, I was curious to see if you were going to show the posts of yours that he missed, since he is in fact, accusing you. If you refuse, I'll probably check, but Mind is right, you look pretty awful than if you went back and did it yourself.
You're not reading the game very closely are you my friend?
it's every post from your entrance until my comment. Which ones did I miss?
Spicy.
While I have you hear, what were you talking about when you said something along the lines of "you'd eat your hat if I didn't come in and say the same thing"?
How is that spicy?
Did you even bother to verify what he said?
I didn't verify nor confirm, but his implication is know "I gave this range" your response was "no you didn't, you cherry picked". Since he is saying "your full of *****" in a much more polite way, I was curious to see if you were going to show the posts of yours that he missed, since he is in fact, accusing you. If you refuse, I'll probably check, but Mind is right, you look pretty awful than if you went back and did it yourself.
You're not reading the game very closely are you my friend?
Feel free to explain what I am misinterpreting. The only think I don't get what Mindreaver's point is: Is he saying you are a wolf, or is he disagreeing with you on ETR?
Since there is a clear discrepancy. Now, I clearly didn't read 799, because it was the last post of the page, but my reaction to 796 was that it was spicy. No, I wasn't going to look back to see your iso to see if Mind was correct or not, because I figured you could/would do it.
Also, I strongly suggest you lighten up. You know as much as I do that flaming people in mafia and dota does almost nothing. Your best case scenario is to hope they ignore you.
And interesting... If I can ask what's your flavor KJ?
@DV I get that it doesn't make any sense as scum. It would be incredibly bone headed to believe tau there. But equally I cannot make heads or tails of his thought process if town there. I don't buy the reasoning chris gave on Tom applying here. And I can't come up with any logic that makes sense to me for how he handled it if he's town. His explanations lack any interest in solving Tau from this whole mess don't feel like a townie.
His main analysis was in the chat it was NAI and in thread Tau was a little townie which is hardly indicative of solving.
You have to look at it this way though.
What makes more sense?
Scum? Or Town?
Scum we can agree it makes no sense. (We might also agree that Tau saying indicate by having @s with 4 or more also doesn't make sense for a town member to say either. Fundamentally, you have to accept that Tau's play makes no sense as town either for all of the reasons I've discussed.)
You see the Town in Tau, but seem unable to see the town in ETR for basically doing the same FPS bull*****.
ETR decided to see where it took him and not out it. Something similar to what Tom thought. Let's see where it goes. That's incredibly townie.
Your basic premise is that a town member would have to reveal(Or should reveal) this information. Fundamentally, I disagree. ETR himself acknowledged that he thought it was town gambiting.
Things to recognize about ETR look at Ghost Busters, not the best play. Add FPS on top of that and suddenly its a WTF is going on.
Also what do you mean his lack of interest in solving Tau? What exactly is there to be gained from the Tau gambit for Tau's alignment? He's said he thinks Tau is town. Grape are you reading the same game as me or just spouting opinions?
Just to be clear you have Tau FPSing with one of the lowest thought out plays.
And then ETR FPSing back.
The only thing that is giving me pause as I work through this is that I need to revisit the ETR part where he claims he only signaled two others which would actually make some of this MAYBE make sense from a scum perspective.
@DV that reads like a very Tom specific read from Chris. Even if we accept that as true for the average player I don't buy EtRs reaction as a town one. His main reply was about the logistics of believing the claim. I mean I can respect that level of calm but it doesn't make sense to me as a reply.
You clearly haven't read everything I've written, but let me try and sum it up.
His actions don't make any sense from scum. Not town. Scum have immediate ability to verify this claim. They look at their partners and say oh there are three of us added up. A forth being in the game could be possible.
Why then upon realizing this does he not just talk in the neighborhood?
Its also a Shadow game so its more likely then not that scum have day chat. So, I'm not buying this play as scum even more then.
Lets assume for the sake of argument there is a neutral in this game(Or a lost scum) and so there are only three scum currently known.
This still doesn't get around why he just doesn't talk in the neighborhood the next day.
He also signals three people which takes us to four including himself and then FIVE with this lone wolf. That's not balanced. So we have one fake claim in our scum claiming truthfully to our neighbor and faking another claim? Because the only way a scum could think this is true is if there are only three scum members, but he has signaled that there are four scum members.
AND on top of that scum have to believe that the mod placed them in a neighborhood from Day 1 AND told the lone wolf that their neighbor was a scum member.
Furthermore Tau is a really experienced player from the sounds of it and he ran through these same numbers and determined this was a good play? It goes beyond reason for any scum member to accept this. The only thing this is ever going to likely do is **** around with town members. That's it.
Its a low percent play that has gotten an even worse low percent lynch.
Just to be clear you have Tau FPSing with one of the lowest thought out plays.
And then ETR FPSing back.
The only thing that is giving me pause as I work through this is that I need to revisit the ETR part where he claims he only signaled two others which would actually make some of this MAYBE make sense from a scum perspective.
Actually, if you're waiting for tom, then never mind.
I'm my own person I can talk about it.
But right now I'm trying to catalog what happened after the claim.
What is your actual stance on the EtR thing? Are you townreading EtR and Reaverb, or do you think there's some truth to EtR's response? Given you're calling tom's and LW's reactions "damage control," which implies they're actually guilty.
I'm really not sure.
ETR could be scum(He could be a form of lost scum and gone "That's like my role seems legit". ) He could be town.
I think there could be truth to ETR's post. I kind of say it in my sum up. I'm not sure why he didn't question his neighbor more in neighbor chat. I guess his play also tells him something about the alignment.
I think Tau and ETR could both be town and I could see that world. Hell Tau could be scum and knows that ETR is town and will tell the truth about the events that transpired.
Its a possibility that ETR got caught. I remember a game a long time ago which was LOTR themed Mines of Moria to be exact. Anyways, the Town in that game was the Goblins/Orcs and the scum was the Fellowship. Someone, day one asked for a race flavor claim and someone claimed Hobbit, they were instantly lynched. I was really sure that they were town and that they couldn't have made that mistake. They were scum and they did just screw up that badly.
Consequently I've run this gambit with Tom. He was town and didn't out me to the town. In fact Sir Chris said if the person was scum they would have instantly claimed and gotten the free town points. I think Sir Chris was right on that. This play isn't nearly as clever as I thought then, and I question if it worked here.
I think too this game has to recognize some truths about this game.
This game is a Normal. The likely setup is 12/4. Scum know who their partners are. Unless something really funky is going on scum know that there will only be 4 mafia players. Its a normal after all.
How in the world is this game going to be balanced with 11/5.
ETR's reasoning of figuring it out actually makes sense to me from a town perspective.
If ANYTHING, I'd say ETR comes out more likely town that Tau does for this.
Tau's play by any stretch of the imagination could not have been calculated for success as town. At least when I made my play with Tom in Disinheritance I got to pick Tom as who I wanted to talk to. Seems like these neighbors started together. It seemed like a good play for a premade mod determined alignment to put a scum member and the lost scum in the same group? What mod makes that decision? None. So, what scum is going to fall for this play? I hope a small minority.
A timeline of about the first 100 posts after Tau's claim. Of what I see as important events.
#378 Reaverb Tau drops their bomb.
#380 Grapes response seems Genuine.
#381 Rhand says Tau is discrediting all the top town reads.(I'm not sure who was town reading him as top but OK). Tom and Last were like sort of town read. But making it “Sow” confusion on day one on post 378. Really now rhand?
#382 Grape joins the ETR wagon.
#385 Mindreaver says “He will wait for ETR to post” Proceeds to vote him in the next line of text in the same post. Nice waiting there Mindreaver. Gives us the Grape connection with Tau.
#386 Instead of commenting on the Tau post Tubba comes from the shadows to ask Mindreaver about the connection between Grape and Tau.
#388 Rhand pushes Grape as being scum too.
#394 ETR responds, explains he thought it would be the best option. I'm not sure this is accurate. The best play IMO was to talk to his neighbor in the neighbor chat.
#405 ETR's extended plan actually seems pretty decent. I still question holding this info from the town, but ehhh?
#416 Tom goes after mindreaver
#426 Kami claims that lynching ETR is the only course of action. I dislike how sure they are that this is a good play.
#427 Wisp votes Kami due to 426.
#431 Kami says taking out ETR is the only reasonable course. I disagree. ETR has claimed reasons that I can analyze and see if they hold merit. I can also look at the game state and see if I think scum would have fallen for it. I can also attempt to figure out if I think Tau is scum gambiting. There are plenty of other reasonable things to do. I can also ignore the whole thing and hope the Vig/Cop solves it for me.
#440 Vaimes votes ETR says this is correct. If I already wasn't convinced this was not correct, this would have convinced me that it wasn't correct.
#442 Last votes ETR because....
#443 ETR claims.
#458 Grape analyizes things and stuff. Something REASONABLE townies do. Unlike, VOTING IMMEDIATLY.
#467 Rhand joins the wagon with the dumbest reason ever. If anything he's outed himself as not being a PR.
#468 From Tubba has to be the scummiest post that nobody has commented on
#469 Tubba remembers to play for his win con and votes a townie.
While I have you hear, what were you talking about when you said something along the lines of "you'd eat your hat if I didn't come in and say the same thing"?
How is that spicy?
Did you even bother to verify what he said?
I didn't verify nor confirm, but his implication is know "I gave this range" your response was "no you didn't, you cherry picked". Since he is saying "your full of *****" in a much more polite way, I was curious to see if you were going to show the posts of yours that he missed, since he is in fact, accusing you. If you refuse, I'll probably check, but Mind is right, you look pretty awful than if you went back and did it yourself.
You're not reading the game very closely are you my friend?
Feel free to explain what I am misinterpreting. The only think I don't get what Mindreaver's point is: Is he saying you are a wolf, or is he disagreeing with you on ETR?
Since there is a clear discrepancy. Now, I clearly didn't read 799, because it was the last post of the page, but my reaction to 796 was that it was spicy. No, I wasn't going to look back to see your iso to see if Mind was correct or not, because I figured you could/would do it.
Also, I strongly suggest you lighten up. You know as much as I do that flaming people in mafia and dota does almost nothing. Your best case scenario is to hope they ignore you.
You kinda just proved my point you ignored 799 where I already pull out posts and show him miss representing me and the situation.
Just to be clear,
I asked Mindreaver about these posts.
Mindreaver's response is to quote posts out of order in order to not give them the proper context and to ignore a large amount of posts where I talk about the issue. He's cherry picked and he's miss represented what I said.
On top of that he's forcing a false dichotomy between EtR and Tau and apparently saying that the only person he possibly suspects this game is EtR because of the claim. He's ignoring the vast amount of arguments of why a town member might make this play in order to push the narrative that he wants to be the controlling one. So, basically he's running for Mitch Mcconnell spot in the senate.
[spoiler][quote from="D_V »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/805970-death-in-the-family-day-1-just-the-beginning?comment=534"]At the end of the day its going to come down to you saying "Its the correct to reveal" and I'm going to counter well maybe its the higher percent play, but
his play isn't anti-town. So, unless you think that the whole scum team has been caught, then he isn't scum. Because for you to think this play has revealed the whole scum team is just a joke to me. And frankly if you think that, I don't respect a word that comes out of your mouth.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I thought he responded with the real scum team. NEVER. I've explicitly said the opposite.
YOu know what D_V, I'm done with you for a little bit, I'm so frustrated with this whole exchange. I demand you admit that you spent a LOT OF TIME talking abou tthose other games, and that tell me that it's not legit to read you that was is ******* garbage.
and I thin you should look into your own reading comprehension.
Like, I get that we're all on a mission to show our thoughts, but it's just gonna go on and on and on. If GJ doesn't come in with the same block of text, I'll eat my hat.
^
OHH. Sorry. I specifically figured that you'd weigh in on the ETR/Tau thing the exact why D_V has: W/W is *this likely*, W/V is slightly more likely, V/V is x% less likely. Etc etc. I was being more hyperbolic than referring to anything about you personally.
[spoiler][quote from="D_V »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/805970-death-in-the-family-day-1-just-the-beginning?comment=534"]At the end of the day its going to come down to you saying "Its the correct to reveal" and I'm going to counter well maybe its the higher percent play, but
his play isn't anti-town. So, unless you think that the whole scum team has been caught, then he isn't scum. Because for you to think this play has revealed the whole scum team is just a joke to me. And frankly if you think that, I don't respect a word that comes out of your mouth.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I thought he responded with the real scum team. NEVER. I've explicitly said the opposite.
YOu know what D_V, I'm done with you for a little bit, I'm so frustrated with this whole exchange. I demand you admit that you spent a LOT OF TIME talking abou tthose other games, and that tell me that it's not legit to read you that was is ******* garbage.
and I thin you should look into your own reading comprehension.
</blockquote>
I spent very little time talking about it so I'm not sure what you're own about. I've proven this pretty heavily. You cherry picked the three posts I spent talking about it and ignored a good majority of the rest of the posts. Additionally, the posts that I did also talked about other things as well.
Furthermore, I didn't claim that you thought that. I'm stating that the only way you can think he is out scum based on this whole debacle is to think that he did out his whole team.
I don't understand how you think you can misquote me out of context AND out of order in order to paint a narrative to fit your statements and expect me to be anything other than hostile.
[spoiler][quote from="D_V »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/805970-death-in-the-family-day-1-just-the-beginning?comment=534"]At the end of the day its going to come down to you saying "Its the correct to reveal" and I'm going to counter well maybe its the higher percent play, but
his play isn't anti-town. So, unless you think that the whole scum team has been caught, then he isn't scum. Because for you to think this play has revealed the whole scum team is just a joke to me. And frankly if you think that, I don't respect a word that comes out of your mouth.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I thought he responded with the real scum team. NEVER. I've explicitly said the opposite.
YOu know what D_V, I'm done with you for a little bit, I'm so frustrated with this whole exchange. I demand you admit that you spent a LOT OF TIME talking abou tthose other games, and that tell me that it's not legit to read you that was is ******* garbage.
and I thin you should look into your own reading comprehension.
</blockquote>
I spent very little time talking about it so I'm not sure what you're own about. I've proven this pretty heavily. You cherry picked the three posts I spent talking about it and ignored a good majority of the rest of the posts. Additionally, the posts that I did also talked about other things as well.
Furthermore, I didn't claim that you thought that. I'm stating that the only way you can think he is out scum based on this whole debacle is to think that he did out his whole team.
I don't understand how you think you can misquote me out of context AND out of order in order to paint a narrative to fit your statements and expect me to be anything other than hostile.
I didn't pick posts out of order. I showed EXACTLY what my point was. You spend a lot of time discussion those other games, and other peoples opinions on ETR/TAU and not your own. Yeah, I might not have caught all the posts, and I didn't realize that near the end of 574 you actually HAD an original opinion that ETR is town. That wasn't malicious, it was an obvious oversight because you spent most of that post rehashing the same stuff we've seen from everyone else. Oh, what is ETR thinking, what is Tau doing, is it scum or town, blah blah.
And you know what, if you disagree with somebody, you don't immediately have to be an aggressive dick about it. That might be your default, but it's garbage dude.
I mean straight up, are you really THIS tilted because I told you that "remember when" was scummy? cause I it was. and you did it in multiple posts.
Tom since you were on the other side of Disinheritance how did you think when I claimed to be a neutral that won with scum? For anyone wondering I pulled this exact same play with Tom, and Tom was town in that game.
[quote from="D_V »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/763629-disinheritance-endgame?comment=889"]OK ok ok.
It's time.
So, I have been talking to Tom.
I told Tom that I was a neutral survivor that wanted to win with the scum and wanted him to tell his scum buddies this information as well. I also indicated that I "Knew seppel was lying and that I wasn't going to counter claim his buddy".
You can see where he responded to this information by voting Seppel.
I'm not 100% certain to do with the information.
But I feel that if Tom was Town that he would have claimed.
OK smarter people than me discuss.
All of this is about you and Tom and another game. You say you have to think, and then immediately spew this.
For the record even if Wisp's argument was "Even if EtR flips scum it's stupid to assume the list is scum and you should kill me to prove it but killing me is bad because I'm a claimed PR."
It's still Y i k e s.
And for the sake of argument let's say EtR flips scum today. I'm going to push to kill tom tomorrow. The list isn't the most likely answer, but as long as there is a chance it's correct we should pursue it. LW isn't the person I'd choose first off it (tom is the easy first choice) even without the PR claim. If tom flips scum the lol wolves. If tom were to flip town I'd then reevaluate and start digging for wolf reactions with the knowledge that I'm looking for people whose buddy got dunked on but at least didn't ruin the game 100%.
If EtR flips town then we kill Tau. And if he flips town then we learn that yolo gambits are a bad idea.
Grape I agree with the Last part, but doesn't a post like Rhand's
So EtR goes from town Neighbour to town without rolename and an extra hidden ability if his Neighbour dies.
Right...
vote EtR
The ease with which Kami accepts the lynch cascade is very worrysome. Scum if EtR flips scum.
Etr/kami/grape/?
Read like much more inside info.
He votes ETR doesn't address his own implication or Toms. But wants to cascade the kill into KA.
Rhand's vote feels opportunistic.
Some shade for Rhand (prior to you just calling him scum a few posts down). But again, no thoughts given on ETR or Tau, except that "yolo gambits are bad".
Actually, if you're waiting for tom, then never mind.
I'm my own person I can talk about it.
But right now I'm trying to catalog what happened after the claim.
What is your actual stance on the EtR thing? Are you townreading EtR and Reaverb, or do you think there's some truth to EtR's response? Given you're calling tom's and LW's reactions "damage control," which implies they're actually guilty.
I'm really not sure.
ETR could be scum(He could be a form of lost scum and gone "That's like my role seems legit". ) He could be town.
I think there could be truth to ETR's post. I kind of say it in my sum up. I'm not sure why he didn't question his neighbor more in neighbor chat. I guess his play also tells him something about the alignment.
I think Tau and ETR could both be town and I could see that world. Hell Tau could be scum and knows that ETR is town and will tell the truth about the events that transpired.
Its a possibility that ETR got caught. I remember a game a long time ago which was LOTR themed Mines of Moria to be exact. Anyways, the Town in that game was the Goblins/Orcs and the scum was the Fellowship. Someone, day one asked for a race flavor claim and someone claimed Hobbit, they were instantly lynched. I was really sure that they were town and that they couldn't have made that mistake. They were scum and they did just screw up that badly.
Consequently I've run this gambit with Tom. He was town and didn't out me to the town. In fact Sir Chris said if the person was scum they would have instantly claimed and gotten the free town points. I think Sir Chris was right on that. This play isn't nearly as clever as I thought then, and I question if it worked here.
This is a post where you enumerate the options. Only when reminded that you haven't actually weighed in yet. You list the possibilities like everyone else did before you, and then launch back into the analysis of TWO OTHER games, and give us what Sir Chris thought about your gambit with Tom. I didn't like that you used Sir Chris's quote in another game to clear ETR (scum ETR would have just claimed). I didn't like that you used the LotR game to shade ETR (sometimes scum just is stupid). But nowhere do you say what you believe.
I'm going to wait for Tom to get back to me and I'm going to read some more, but man I think lynching ETR is a low percent play.
I think its much more likely that the wolves came to town though when this got aired because MAN did a lot of opportunistic votes get thrown out in all directions.
The only thing I can say is that Tom and Last both went into what I might call "Damage control" and sort of attacked this play immediately. They are also the two most active players though.
I feel pretty sure this is not Town Rhand. Vote Rhand[/quote]The very next post you declare that ETR/Tau is low percent, so shouldn't be figured out. And you move onto Rhand. Without every giving a solid read on Tau or ETR or sharing what YOU think about THIS game.
So THAT my friend, is why I characterized your play as "remember when". and I think it's completely accurate.
You claim that post was the very next post.
That post is post 523, the post before that post is post 533. You lied about the timeline.
Additionally,
You claim that I am scummy because I didn't give my opinion on things and remember when is me dodging the question.
But the fact remains that I answered MY opinion on this well before you posted your attack on me. Additionally, I bring up the balancing issues which NOBODY else does. Most of my thought are independent and I challenge you to show otherwise. You claim I'm repeating others. I'm not.
Finally, you ignore the fact that ALL of the posts were withing hours of each other I was moving in real time though my thought process.
You did cherry pick and you did lie about the posts. I know you cherry picked, because when you made your attack on me for being playing remember when I had given a lot of thoughts on my feelings on the whole situation. So you're just lying.
I have no idea what happened to that post it worked fine in preview.
If you go to that post you'll see at the end of it
The very next post you declare that ETR/Tau is low percent, so shouldn't be figured out. And you move onto Rhand. Without every giving a solid read on Tau or ETR or sharing what YOU think about THIS game.
This quote. Mindreaver is quoting a post that I made before the other post and claiming that it is the very next post.
@Mindreaver: I think you're confusing two different groups.
I think EtR legitimately bought Tau's gambit and gave up his scum team, which is EtR, Last, Tom, Rhand. That's the team I'm 80-90% sure on.
You're talking, separately, about EtR's claim that he really meant to signal a different team, which was EtR, me and Tubba. I don't believe that - I think EtR made that "signal" up after the fact.
There's a lot of overthinking going on. D1 kills are generally a crapshoot and best we can hope for is to get lucky or get some info from associatives. Right now we have an incredibly high-info kill option with a good chance to solve the entire game. I get that people want to do behavioral analysis but I feel like we're just wasting time, and we're giving scum time to bury us in wine and misdirection. Note that wisp and tom combined - two of the people in that scum list - are over a third of all posts in the thread. Wisp alone is a quarter of the thread.
Wait.
Wait this is weird.
Talk to me about the bolded. Your lack of certainty that he's not just making up the second signal ("don't believe that". "think he made it up") is weird, because nowhere is any kind of reaction to his casual attempt to signal you as one of the scum.
I saw this too. I’m sold Kami is scum.
i dont get what either of you are seeing here.
Hes scum because he didn't explicitly deny it?
What would be the point of that when hes already saying he believes in the first team therefore the second is just cover?
Like, i still cant bring myself to buy he believes in it... but if he does what does this even matter?
I have no idea what happened to that post it worked fine in preview.
If you go to that post you'll see at the end of it
The very next post you declare that ETR/Tau is low percent, so shouldn't be figured out. And you move onto Rhand. Without every giving a solid read on Tau or ETR or sharing what YOU think about THIS game.
This quote. Mindreaver is quoting a post that I made before the other post and claiming that it is the very next post.
How important is the timing to my argument or yours?
Hes prolly a PR worried about looking bad and tryharding. If i were scum id kill him early
@mafia
this is super gross. Unvote, Vote Tom #riprvs
I really don't like the follow up convo with whisper either. But I do appreciate getting the Rhand and Grape defenses, that will make PoE easier down the line.
sure whatever. This could be town mindreaver either actually finding this scummy because hes forgotten me completely, or wanting to pressure me because... hes forgotten me completely. Lol.
Thats not scummy from me (or in general) and pressuring me doesnt do *****. But whatever its possible...
I mean, the option that goes along with him not believing it is just saying stuff to go with blustery confidence im scum so you should wait to see if he just keeps pushing me and looking for connections or is actually thinking things through
But now you have to watch how he reacts to being called out too so that should be fun
Jesus Tom. You're spilling all the beans.
I count probably 8 or 9 people in this thread that I know, that know Tom well enough, to know that we aren't gonna get a good read on him in the first few pages, even when he does something ridiculously scummy. Fair enough?
So is it necessary to actually say that in thread?
Now, the only two people who spoke up about that fact, when Tom did his PR-fishing (which wasn't helpful, especially because the follow up made it super obvious he found one (or did he? Or does LW want scum to think so? WIFOM fo dayz)) were Grape and Rhand.
So in the worlds where I see Tom is scum, doing some kind of weirdo gambit (which to be fair is in his wheelhouse), I don't see Rhand proclaiming him town and also being a scumbuddy. I think that we would see buddies distancing themselves from something like that, which makes Grape's defense a little harder to swallow (he's probably town, BUT TWO RED FLAGS). That's a fence sit if I've ever seen one. Combined with his opportunistic 4th vote on LW, to keep that wagon rolling, doesn't look good.
In the world where Tom is town and is just being Tom, Rhand's read is probably not alignment indicative either way. Scum could be buddying, or town could just be not "reading tom at level 0". Grape's comment still looks gross. Like "here is a little shade for tom, who is probably town"? I don't think that comes from town mindset. Like, I just don't see how it's helpful to state that.
Anyway, my take-away at the moment was I don't like Grape.
So my question for Grape is, when will you share what these red flags are? Can it be now?
but hey look at that it was neither of those things. He clearly realized he cant get away with that read, and it wasnt pressure for pressures sake or he doesnt give it up that early.
So lets transition that awkwardly into jumping on the growing grape wagon, while lightly leaking that hes paying attention to my rolehunting in a professional capacity.
Then he pops back in after the grape wagon got even bigger because rhand meta, and... doesnt even comment on grape who he thinks is scum only mentions it in passing while vaguely attacking wisp eho he thinks is town PR
Then in response to tau/etr
"In any case, ETR and Tau can't both be telling the truth right now."
Which... a) i think is second most likely and b) has a ton of scum motivation in several possible combinations
I guess this is where i note that i kinda like his read on kami, and they're not super likely partners
Rhand - I had you higher as a townread, but I don't quite know what D_V's attack on your signifies. Gut feel was scum busing.
<snip>
D_V - Your entrance was a vast improvement in the slot, but I have to say "remember when" is the lowest form of conversation. Instead of taking on Tau/ETR with your own opinions, you're telling us about all the other games and gambits and other people's opinions. That doesn't ring true for me.
these two reads taken together is just pure agenda
This is still most likely scum itg
What I was looking for from you, is a response to... some earlier post I'm too lazy to find, where your entire Mind/Grape tunnel BS read exploded a few pages ago when KJ "confirmed" town Grape. Any thoughts there? Or is the Rhand read that Whisper already pointed out, and my play from page 3, the only things you're basing this on?
Let me ask you this. Do you believe I thought that Grape wagon was going to go the distance? Why do you think I engaged you and Whisper early specifically?
not a mind/grape tunnel. A scumread of you i didnt explain til now, and a separate read that grape was your partner.
I believe (and your posts show) that you didnt care about grape at all you just joined a popular wagon.
But the fact remains that I answered MY opinion on this well before you posted your attack on me. Didn't attack you actually. Just put my observations on a reads list. You're the one who went bat*****.
Additionally, I bring up the balancing issues which NOBODY else does. Most of my thought are independent and I challenge you to show otherwise. You claim I'm repeating others. I'm not. I didn't say ALL your thoughts are repeating others. I said you quoted others, and other experiences to sell your POV instead of before you gave yours. Can you at least agree there?
Finally, you ignore the fact that ALL of the posts were withing hours of each other I was moving in real time though my thought process. I didn't say I ignored that. Cool story though.
You did cherry pick and you did lie about the posts. Agree to Disagree I know you cherry picked (NO COLLUSION), because when you made your attack on me (Didn't attack you, you sensitive flower) for being playing remember when I had given a lot of thoughts on my feelings on the whole situation (talk some more about your feelings). So you're just lying. I"m not, but that's okay if you think so. Bye dearie. muah.
I have no idea what happened to that post it worked fine in preview.
If you go to that post you'll see at the end of it
The very next post you declare that ETR/Tau is low percent, so shouldn't be figured out. And you move onto Rhand. Without every giving a solid read on Tau or ETR or sharing what YOU think about THIS game.
This quote. Mindreaver is quoting a post that I made before the other post and claiming that it is the very next post.
How important is the timing to my argument or yours?
CHERRY PICKING!
You quoted things out of order.
I said you quoted things out of order.
You claimed that you didn't, and that wasn't and argument.
I'm showing that you did and it was your argument.
Come on man
I didn't pick posts out of order. I showed EXACTLY what my point was.
You said those words. You lied. You're having a temper tantrum, because I've caught you in a lie.
You want to say that the majority of your argument is that playing remember when is scummy. First, you've never established why this is. You're claiming that I didn't give my opinion but that's false. I've clearly given a majority of my opinion, if you want me to generously interpret your arguments to the point of ignoring LITERAL statements you made then you should easily be able to interpret mine as having given an opinion. I made it VERY clear early on I was not interested in lynching EtR, I might not have given the best reasons or explained myself fully, BUT the scummines from what you are implying is that I was sitting on the fence looking either way. That is not the case.
This is shown by your attack on me with the out of order posts about me attacking Rhand, and not giving my thoughts on EtR, but this is far from the truth. If I'm being HIGHLY generous to you I sat on the fence for a matter of hours I don't think I did that, I made my position really clear. And that's my problem its that your attack on me just doesn't conform to reality. When called on this you've devolved into lying and then saying it doesn't matter.
I can't see a town player doing this. You should be able to admit you made a mistake. I'm sorry if this is hard for you personally.
I have two opinions on Mind, and they are giving me two different opinions, I still dislike the post the Tom just mentioned again, but I still believe he handled my claim of shooting him in a townie fashion, I'm on the fence with him at this point...
I don't particularly like, that Tom decided to answer that post at this very moment, could be town trying to change the convo, or scum with or without DV, using this chance to point out why he thinks Mind is still scummy, I don't know how much I believe that either
Idk what else to say, but I gotta clock in for work
Riku/Tuba continue to be LHF. But just like how maniacs can have premium hands, lhf can be wolves, so continuing to watch that.
<snip>
Weird, as I usually have the opposite problem, of struggling to find people who can be wolfy.
concluding 2 people are lhf, then deciding one is probably scum anyway despite already having too many wolves, has a fair amount of wolf equity.
Just, as an individual action.
Mitigated a bit by all his scumreads being lhf themselves this game (lngrr) or based entirely on Johnny beung underwhelmed (rhand/kj)
Though those mitigating factors arent exactly cause for celebration
But the fact remains that I answered MY opinion on this well before you posted your attack on me. Didn't attack you actually. Just put my observations on a reads list. You're the one who went bat*****.
Additionally, I bring up the balancing issues which NOBODY else does. Most of my thought are independent and I challenge you to show otherwise. You claim I'm repeating others. I'm not. I didn't say ALL your thoughts are repeating others. I said you quoted others, and other experiences to sell your POV instead of before you gave yours. Can you at least agree there?
Finally, you ignore the fact that ALL of the posts were withing hours of each other I was moving in real time though my thought process. I didn't say I ignored that. Cool story though.
You did cherry pick and you did lie about the posts. Agree to Disagree I know you cherry picked (NO COLLUSION), because when you made your attack on me (Didn't attack you, you sensitive flower) for being playing remember when I had given a lot of thoughts on my feelings on the whole situation (talk some more about your feelings). So you're just lying. I"m not, but that's okay if you think so. Bye dearie. muah.
</blockquote>
I didn't go bat***** on you dude. I said come on my I talked about a lot of other things between then.
You responded back "No you didn't" and I've shown that I did. You are now claiming that you were just focusing on those posts.
But you used the hyperbole that HALF my posts were about that, they were not. You attacked me for using these comments in three of my posts. While claiming that it was a majority of my posts, when I said this wasn't true you said and I quote
I believe (and your posts show) that you didnt care about grape at all you just joined a popular wagon.
just shortening the post. not CHERRY PICKING. I wanted pressure on Grape at that time, and yeah, I thought he could be scum based on that language tell. If you thought I was scum, why would I do that?
It's not as if Grape was sitting on 7 votes and I was #8. I was #3 after Rhand's post. But sure, a vote is a vote. You got me. I voted for the Grape. Now what?
Fundamentally, I don't understand how you can argue this as a townie.
You ****ed up Mindreaver. You made blanket statements that were not true numerous times and instead of admitting that you're getting angry that I'm calling you out for that.
Its fine to make mistakes, but take ownership for them.
Tubba, what makes this like flavorgaming in ghostbusters instead of like [everything dv caused] in ghostbusters?
I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking. In Ghostbusters, Highroller in particular felt that the game could be solved along flavour lines to the exclusion of everything else. Town had an opportunity to disprove it, but thanks to some town lethargy and adroit scumplay, it didn’t happen until much too late.
The current situation feels similar in that we have an opportunity to clear up a confusing issue for town, that if we leave festering only makes preceding days more difficult.
As far as D_V, I alluded to it in Ghostbusters. He’s an agitator, it’s his play style and what seems to work for him. I don’t particularly like it, but it is what it is. His self voting in Ghostbusters did lead to chaos for town to be sure, but it was consistent with his “violently shaking things” approach. I don’t see a corollary here though.
was the correct play in ghostbusters resolving the flavor though, or was it "shut up highroller we dont need to lynch townies based on a crackpot theory"?
But the fact remains that I answered MY opinion on this well before you posted your attack on me. Didn't attack you actually. Just put my observations on a reads list. You're the one who went bat*****.
Additionally, I bring up the balancing issues which NOBODY else does. Most of my thought are independent and I challenge you to show otherwise. You claim I'm repeating others. I'm not. I didn't say ALL your thoughts are repeating others. I said you quoted others, and other experiences to sell your POV instead of before you gave yours. Can you at least agree there?
Finally, you ignore the fact that ALL of the posts were withing hours of each other I was moving in real time though my thought process. I didn't say I ignored that. Cool story though.
You did cherry pick and you did lie about the posts. Agree to Disagree I know you cherry picked (NO COLLUSION), because when you made your attack on me (Didn't attack you, you sensitive flower) for being playing remember when I had given a lot of thoughts on my feelings on the whole situation (talk some more about your feelings). So you're just lying. I"m not, but that's okay if you think so. Bye dearie. muah.
</blockquote>
I didn't go bat***** on you dude. I said come on my I talked about a lot of other things between then.
You responded back "No you didn't" and I've shown that I did. You are now claiming that you were just focusing on those posts.
But you used the hyperbole that HALF my posts were about that, they were not. You attacked me for using these comments in three of my posts. While claiming that it was a majority of my posts, when I said this wasn't true you said and I quote
it's every post from your entrance until my comment. Which ones did I miss?
That's a ******* LIE.
It WASN'T every post since until your entrance. In fact I've quoted half a dozen posts that I didn't do that in.
Yeah this is done. I hope you're happy with yourself. I'm not speaking to you for the rest of this game. You managed to language lawyer me to death. Managed to twist every word into a "he's lying!".
Maybe I messed up the quotes. My question to you, that you ******* ignored, is because it doesn't MATTER when you said any of those quotes. and I'm sure that's just another "He lied!" quote, so don't even bother. My point was that you were relying on those quotes, and I wasn't showing progression in my thoughts. I was showing why I thought as I did about you.
Mistakes aren't lies BTW. Not everything is some malicious attack. So you can **** off with that. Hope you win lots of games with that logic.
@grapefruit
I'm sorry, but wtf was that post? Who the hell thinks like that, that's as fake as the post that GJ made that tom just quoted... There is nothing to verify either statements...
I think people overreacted, and if we aren't ending the day tomorrow, I would like to see what Etr is bringing to the table now that he isn't staring down a lynch.
digging last two gj posts. Tubba looking better, ETR should be wagoned on his own merits not a dumb gambit with only suspicious ways to respond lol
But the fact remains that I answered MY opinion on this well before you posted your attack on me. Didn't attack you actually. Just put my observations on a reads list. You're the one who went bat*****.
Additionally, I bring up the balancing issues which NOBODY else does. Most of my thought are independent and I challenge you to show otherwise. You claim I'm repeating others. I'm not. I didn't say ALL your thoughts are repeating others. I said you quoted others, and other experiences to sell your POV instead of before you gave yours. Can you at least agree there?
Finally, you ignore the fact that ALL of the posts were withing hours of each other I was moving in real time though my thought process. I didn't say I ignored that. Cool story though.
You did cherry pick and you did lie about the posts. Agree to Disagree I know you cherry picked (NO COLLUSION), because when you made your attack on me (Didn't attack you, you sensitive flower) for being playing remember when I had given a lot of thoughts on my feelings on the whole situation (talk some more about your feelings). So you're just lying. I"m not, but that's okay if you think so. Bye dearie. muah.
</blockquote>
I didn't go bat***** on you dude. I said come on my I talked about a lot of other things between then.
You responded back "No you didn't" and I've shown that I did. You are now claiming that you were just focusing on those posts.
But you used the hyperbole that HALF my posts were about that, they were not. You attacked me for using these comments in three of my posts. While claiming that it was a majority of my posts, when I said this wasn't true you said and I quote
it's every post from your entrance until my comment. Which ones did I miss?
That's a ******* LIE.
It WASN'T every post since until your entrance. In fact I've quoted half a dozen posts that I didn't do that in.
Yeah this is done. I hope you're happy with yourself. I'm not speaking to you for the rest of this game. You managed to language lawyer me to death. Managed to twist every word into a "he's lying!".
Maybe I messed up the quotes. My question to you, that you ******* ignored, is because it doesn't MATTER when you said any of those quotes. and I'm sure that's just another "He lied!" quote, so don't even bother. My point was that you were relying on those quotes, and I wasn't showing progression in my thoughts. I was showing why I thought as I did about you.
Mistakes aren't lies BTW. Not everything is some malicious attack. So you can **** off with that. Hope you win lots of games with that logic.
If you look at 820 I do respond to that point.
I'd like to say sorry, but I'm not. You had plenty of time to simply say "I used the wrong words, that isn't how I meant it." That would have been all it took. Instead you claimed you didn't take posts out of order and continued to use blanket statements.
I'm not going to play twenty questions or interpret what I think you mean. I'm going to take your words how you've written them and in their plainest meaning.
I'm not trying to "win" a rules lawyer competition. But you made many attacks on me that were illegitimate. If you look at GJ's 802, I'm not the only one that sees the implications about what you are saying.
Personally, I'm offended. You used words that didn't mean what I guess you thought you meant and instead of being truthful about your intent you continued to argue them that way. I didn't even go into strange meanings or English things. I just went with these blanket attacks you made and said "Hey that's not fair to say". You claimed that you never said multiple things you said. That's lying. You are a liar.
If you're town you've done a great disservice.
I don't particularly like, that Tom decided to answer that post at this very moment, could be town trying to change the convo, or scum with or without DV, using this chance to point out why he thinks Mind is still scummy, I don't know how much I believe that either
i woke up slightly after noon and began catching up in order, as either alignment
No opinion as of yet, except that I think GJ handled that in a very townie fashion
couldnt care less about the dv mindreaver fight here. Prolly NAI for both, and dont care about either of their premises.
Mind is still a wolf though. The only towny way to respond to your claim is to ignore it tbh.
Or
@mafia
Its not a fight its a slaughter. If you're going to claim determinable facts about the game state and I know you're wrong I'm going to show it. Additionally, if you are going to claim facts that are the exact opposite if what you claim I'm going to call you a liar if you persist to hold to them.
I think people overreacted, and if we aren't ending the day tomorrow, I would like to see what Etr is bringing to the table now that he isn't staring down a lynch.
digging last two gj posts. Tubba looking better, ETR should be wagoned on his own merits not a dumb gambit with only suspicious ways to respond lol
Town!EtR would have an extremely obvious and non suspicious way to respond: "Hey all, I'm in a neighborhood with Tau and he claimed scum."
This is not a difficult situation. EtR essentially claimed scum and claimed a scumteam. "But I was only testing" is not a reasonable defense. (And I'm aware that you're not going to agree because you're scum here, but this is really aimed at the townies who still aren't on EtR.)
The rest of the Day is going to be weird because there's really not much to add. Basically anything besides getting votes on EtR is pointless and I doubt that I'm going to get more progress by myself than I already have - I know my skill at "get others to agree with me" is only at a meh level.
Maybe I should just end posts with "EtR delenda est."
LW what don't you get? Tubba was never scummy. Had a huge consensus that he was bubble up out of nothing and seemed to have real momentum before it all disippated quickly. That feels like an agenda forced wagon if I've ever seen one. I don't actually think we should kill everyone on it. But there is definitely scum who pushed Tubba.
Tubba, what makes this like flavorgaming in ghostbusters instead of like [everything dv caused] in ghostbusters?
I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking. In Ghostbusters, Highroller in particular felt that the game could be solved along flavour lines to the exclusion of everything else. Town had an opportunity to disprove it, but thanks to some town lethargy and adroit scumplay, it didn’t happen until much too late.
The current situation feels similar in that we have an opportunity to clear up a confusing issue for town, that if we leave festering only makes preceding days more difficult.
As far as D_V, I alluded to it in Ghostbusters. He’s an agitator, it’s his play style and what seems to work for him. I don’t particularly like it, but it is what it is. His self voting in Ghostbusters did lead to chaos for town to be sure, but it was consistent with his “violently shaking things” approach. I don’t see a corollary here though.
was the correct play in ghostbusters resolving the flavor though, or was it "shut up highroller we dont need to lynch townies based on a crackpot theory"?
I see your point, but I don’t believe it would’ve worked then, and I don’t think it’ll work now. It’s going to be an elephant in the room for the rest of the game, you won’t be able to convince everyone to let it go. If it splits the town block the result will be the same as Ghostbusters, two town cores circling the drain. There were other issues with Ghostbusters as far as power roles, but I think my premise holds water. Note that nothing short of a contrary to flavour flip occurred that the town was able to start functioning cohesively. Did it not feel like a blessing for you as a crossflavour scum?
No opinion as of yet, except that I think GJ handled that in a very townie fashion
couldnt care less about the dv mindreaver fight here. Prolly NAI for both, and dont care about either of their premises.
Mind is still a wolf though. The only towny way to respond to your claim is to ignore it tbh.
Or
@mafia
Its not a fight its a slaughter. If you're going to claim determinable facts about the game state and I know you're wrong I'm going to show it. Additionally, if you are going to claim facts that are the exact opposite if what you claim I'm going to call you a liar if you persist to hold to them.
What are you reasons for thinking he is scum?
oh youre winning the argument
It doesnt mean anything in context of alignment in a game of mafia, but congrats
Feel free to read my posts about him. Literally made a case last night and just quoted it again in the last hour
^
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I didn't verify nor confirm, but his implication is know "I gave this range" your response was "no you didn't, you cherry picked". Since he is saying "your full of *****" in a much more polite way, I was curious to see if you were going to show the posts of yours that he missed, since he is in fact, accusing you. If you refuse, I'll probably check, but Mind is right, you look pretty awful than if you went back and did it yourself.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
You're not reading the game very closely are you my friend?
Do I need to go find that GJ is scum gif again?
Hmmm
783
793
796
Feel free to explain what I am misinterpreting. The only think I don't get what Mindreaver's point is: Is he saying you are a wolf, or is he disagreeing with you on ETR?
Since there is a clear discrepancy. Now, I clearly didn't read 799, because it was the last post of the page, but my reaction to 796 was that it was spicy. No, I wasn't going to look back to see your iso to see if Mind was correct or not, because I figured you could/would do it.
Also, I strongly suggest you lighten up. You know as much as I do that flaming people in mafia and dota does almost nothing. Your best case scenario is to hope they ignore you.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Mindreaver made his call out post on 617.
I made one non applicable post between that and his list post on 608.
I called him out on 625.
Just to be clear Mindreaver made some hyperbole about half my posts being about OOG things. They were not.
I made this post
Now, my spicy comment is still spicy, but for a different reason.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I asked Mindreaver about these posts.
Mindreaver's response is to quote posts out of order in order to not give them the proper context and to ignore a large amount of posts where I talk about the issue. He's cherry picked and he's miss represented what I said.
On top of that he's forcing a false dichotomy between EtR and Tau and apparently saying that the only person he possibly suspects this game is EtR because of the claim. He's ignoring the vast amount of arguments of why a town member might make this play in order to push the narrative that he wants to be the controlling one. So, basically he's running for Mitch Mcconnell spot in the senate.
Unvote Vote Mindreaver
YOu know what D_V, I'm done with you for a little bit, I'm so frustrated with this whole exchange. I demand you admit that you spent a LOT OF TIME talking abou tthose other games, and that tell me that it's not legit to read you that was is ******* garbage.
and I thin you should look into your own reading comprehension.
I spent very little time talking about it so I'm not sure what you're own about. I've proven this pretty heavily. You cherry picked the three posts I spent talking about it and ignored a good majority of the rest of the posts. Additionally, the posts that I did also talked about other things as well.
Furthermore, I didn't claim that you thought that. I'm stating that the only way you can think he is out scum based on this whole debacle is to think that he did out his whole team.
I don't understand how you think you can misquote me out of context AND out of order in order to paint a narrative to fit your statements and expect me to be anything other than hostile.
I didn't pick posts out of order. I showed EXACTLY what my point was. You spend a lot of time discussion those other games, and other peoples opinions on ETR/TAU and not your own. Yeah, I might not have caught all the posts, and I didn't realize that near the end of 574 you actually HAD an original opinion that ETR is town. That wasn't malicious, it was an obvious oversight because you spent most of that post rehashing the same stuff we've seen from everyone else. Oh, what is ETR thinking, what is Tau doing, is it scum or town, blah blah.
And you know what, if you disagree with somebody, you don't immediately have to be an aggressive dick about it. That might be your default, but it's garbage dude.
I mean straight up, are you really THIS tilted because I told you that "remember when" was scummy? cause I it was. and you did it in multiple posts.
CHERRY PICKING
NO COLLUSION
All of this is about you and Tom and another game. You say you have to think, and then immediately spew this.
Some shade for Rhand (prior to you just calling him scum a few posts down). But again, no thoughts given on ETR or Tau, except that "yolo gambits are bad".
This is a post where you enumerate the options. Only when reminded that you haven't actually weighed in yet. You list the possibilities like everyone else did before you, and then launch back into the analysis of TWO OTHER games, and give us what Sir Chris thought about your gambit with Tom. I didn't like that you used Sir Chris's quote in another game to clear ETR (scum ETR would have just claimed). I didn't like that you used the LotR game to shade ETR (sometimes scum just is stupid). But nowhere do you say what you believe.
You claim that post was the very next post.
That post is post 523, the post before that post is post 533. You lied about the timeline.
Additionally,
You claim that I am scummy because I didn't give my opinion on things and remember when is me dodging the question.
But the fact remains that I answered MY opinion on this well before you posted your attack on me. Additionally, I bring up the balancing issues which NOBODY else does. Most of my thought are independent and I challenge you to show otherwise. You claim I'm repeating others. I'm not.
Finally, you ignore the fact that ALL of the posts were withing hours of each other I was moving in real time though my thought process.
You did cherry pick and you did lie about the posts. I know you cherry picked, because when you made your attack on me for being playing remember when I had given a lot of thoughts on my feelings on the whole situation. So you're just lying.
If you go to that post you'll see at the end of it
This quote. Mindreaver is quoting a post that I made before the other post and claiming that it is the very next post.
Hes scum because he didn't explicitly deny it?
What would be the point of that when hes already saying he believes in the first team therefore the second is just cover?
Like, i still cant bring myself to buy he believes in it... but if he does what does this even matter?
CHERRY PICKING!
I believe (and your posts show) that you didnt care about grape at all you just joined a popular wagon.
You quoted things out of order.
I said you quoted things out of order.
You claimed that you didn't, and that wasn't and argument.
I'm showing that you did and it was your argument.
Come on man
You said those words. You lied. You're having a temper tantrum, because I've caught you in a lie.
You want to say that the majority of your argument is that playing remember when is scummy. First, you've never established why this is. You're claiming that I didn't give my opinion but that's false. I've clearly given a majority of my opinion, if you want me to generously interpret your arguments to the point of ignoring LITERAL statements you made then you should easily be able to interpret mine as having given an opinion. I made it VERY clear early on I was not interested in lynching EtR, I might not have given the best reasons or explained myself fully, BUT the scummines from what you are implying is that I was sitting on the fence looking either way. That is not the case.
This is shown by your attack on me with the out of order posts about me attacking Rhand, and not giving my thoughts on EtR, but this is far from the truth. If I'm being HIGHLY generous to you I sat on the fence for a matter of hours I don't think I did that, I made my position really clear. And that's my problem its that your attack on me just doesn't conform to reality. When called on this you've devolved into lying and then saying it doesn't matter.
I can't see a town player doing this. You should be able to admit you made a mistake. I'm sorry if this is hard for you personally.
I don't particularly like, that Tom decided to answer that post at this very moment, could be town trying to change the convo, or scum with or without DV, using this chance to point out why he thinks Mind is still scummy, I don't know how much I believe that either
Idk what else to say, but I gotta clock in for work
Just, as an individual action.
Mitigated a bit by all his scumreads being lhf themselves this game (lngrr) or based entirely on Johnny beung underwhelmed (rhand/kj)
Though those mitigating factors arent exactly cause for celebration
Hi johnny i see you
I didn't go bat***** on you dude. I said come on my I talked about a lot of other things between then.
You responded back "No you didn't" and I've shown that I did. You are now claiming that you were just focusing on those posts.
But you used the hyperbole that HALF my posts were about that, they were not. You attacked me for using these comments in three of my posts. While claiming that it was a majority of my posts, when I said this wasn't true you said and I quote
That's a ******* LIE.
It WASN'T every post since until your entrance. In fact I've quoted half a dozen posts that I didn't do that in.
It's not as if Grape was sitting on 7 votes and I was #8. I was #3 after Rhand's post. But sure, a vote is a vote. You got me. I voted for the Grape. Now what?
Gonna answer my other question?
You ****ed up Mindreaver. You made blanket statements that were not true numerous times and instead of admitting that you're getting angry that I'm calling you out for that.
Its fine to make mistakes, but take ownership for them.
EtR (4): M1ndreaver, KamikazeArchon, Vaimes, Tubba Fett
M1ndreaver (2): tomsloger, D_V
Rhand (2): LnGrrrR, EtR
Tubba Fett (1): Killjoy
Killjoy (1): Rumanshi
Reaverb Tau (1): Rodemy
KamikazeArchon (1): Rhand
LnGrrrR (1): Lastwhisper
Not Voting (3): Gentleman Johnny, Reaverb Tau, Grapefruit21
V/LA: KamikazeArchon (March 1st - 3rd, March 8th - 10th)
With 16 alive, it’s 9 to lynch. Deadline is on March 8th.
Maybe I messed up the quotes. My question to you, that you ******* ignored, is because it doesn't MATTER when you said any of those quotes. and I'm sure that's just another "He lied!" quote, so don't even bother. My point was that you were relying on those quotes, and I wasn't showing progression in my thoughts. I was showing why I thought as I did about you.
Mistakes aren't lies BTW. Not everything is some malicious attack. So you can **** off with that. Hope you win lots of games with that logic.
I'm sorry, but wtf was that post? Who the hell thinks like that, that's as fake as the post that GJ made that tom just quoted... There is nothing to verify either statements...
I'd like to say sorry, but I'm not. You had plenty of time to simply say "I used the wrong words, that isn't how I meant it." That would have been all it took. Instead you claimed you didn't take posts out of order and continued to use blanket statements.
I'm not going to play twenty questions or interpret what I think you mean. I'm going to take your words how you've written them and in their plainest meaning.
I'm not trying to "win" a rules lawyer competition. But you made many attacks on me that were illegitimate. If you look at GJ's 802, I'm not the only one that sees the implications about what you are saying.
Personally, I'm offended. You used words that didn't mean what I guess you thought you meant and instead of being truthful about your intent you continued to argue them that way. I didn't even go into strange meanings or English things. I just went with these blanket attacks you made and said "Hey that's not fair to say". You claimed that you never said multiple things you said. That's lying. You are a liar.
If you're town you've done a great disservice.
Mind is still a wolf though. The only towny way to respond to your claim is to ignore it tbh.
Or
Google failed me, what is LHF?
I swear if you are pulling my leg with such stupid fps, cause idk how that last post comes from town!grape...
Its not a fight its a slaughter. If you're going to claim determinable facts about the game state and I know you're wrong I'm going to show it. Additionally, if you are going to claim facts that are the exact opposite if what you claim I'm going to call you a liar if you persist to hold to them.
What are you reasons for thinking he is scum?
This is not a difficult situation. EtR essentially claimed scum and claimed a scumteam. "But I was only testing" is not a reasonable defense. (And I'm aware that you're not going to agree because you're scum here, but this is really aimed at the townies who still aren't on EtR.)
The rest of the Day is going to be weird because there's really not much to add. Basically anything besides getting votes on EtR is pointless and I doubt that I'm going to get more progress by myself than I already have - I know my skill at "get others to agree with me" is only at a meh level.
Maybe I should just end posts with "EtR delenda est."
I see your point, but I don’t believe it would’ve worked then, and I don’t think it’ll work now. It’s going to be an elephant in the room for the rest of the game, you won’t be able to convince everyone to let it go. If it splits the town block the result will be the same as Ghostbusters, two town cores circling the drain. There were other issues with Ghostbusters as far as power roles, but I think my premise holds water. Note that nothing short of a contrary to flavour flip occurred that the town was able to start functioning cohesively. Did it not feel like a blessing for you as a crossflavour scum?
Is that just not a possibility in your mind?
It doesnt mean anything in context of alignment in a game of mafia, but congrats
Feel free to read my posts about him. Literally made a case last night and just quoted it again in the last hour
While I appreciate the sentiment I have to agree with the “wtf????”