Day 2 Vaimes starts on Lngrr. Okay maybe Lngrr gets to be town. Then goes to Tom, okay maybe Tom is town. Then he votes me because he loves me so much (love you too bud) then he ends up on town Osie.
Oh man good for Town Chris I registered right away that Osie vote was pretty suspect from Vaimes. I am sorry Tubba I was still recovering from illness, please forgive me Vaimes should have been smote day 3.
Tom, after I begin a wagon on Anak that he specifically asked me to start, posts this:
Really need to stop getting drawn in but yall seem to fall so easily for his nonsensical emotional manipulation.
Hes hiding even more in his faux indignation since it started working.
Like, realize what he could be doing instead of whining at me and cherry picking posts.
He has no response to anything relevant. Hes amended his top townread to scum with me *guess the ******* scum motivation*
Johnny cared more about being townread than solving. Thats irrefutable fact.
Osi cares more about playing the victim than reading enough to make his "worldview" make sense
Dont fall for it
So just to keep score.
Chris: Osie is town
Tom: WOWMG CHRIS IS BAD
Osie flips town.
Chris: Vezok is town
Tom: WOWMG CHRIS IS BAD, FOUR PROTECTIONS????????
Vezok flips town.
Look have all the conspiracies you want about me I am on my game for the most part barring fever this game, how about we just follow Chris and see what happens because I am feeling PRETTY GOOD about my game so far.
KA goes hard on Vaimes at some point. Vaimes response seems to be appeasing. Liking Lnggrr/Tom world a bit more.
Vaimes votes Lngrr again.
So at some point Vaimes day 3 has his bottom 3 as Lngrr/Tom/Vezok.
Points for anyone who guesses who, of those 3, he ends up on.
Oh wait there was also a Tubba involved (I AM SORRY)
Yeah so feeling pretty good about Lnggrr/Tom with Tom just being full on hero scum doing whatever he possibly can to save the day and let me just say if I have this exactly right Tom has my full respect he did a hell of a job.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Just to clarify: He lists his bottom four as tom/lngrr/vezok/tubba and ends up on tubba eod 3 and starts day 4 on vezok look the guy was a little bit bussy I think and tried to wifom me BUT YOU CAN'T WIFOM CHRIS.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Rodemy and Highroller are snow white to me. KJ ergh he sometimes just says things that bother me like "GOING TO LYNCH CHRIS TOMORROW FOR THAT WAGON PUSH ON TOM" and then also "yeah I don't like Tom much" but maybe now that vezok has flipped town he will see Tom is really shady for that whole vaimes/vezok priority he decided to get going on. Then again maybe KJ is just sussing me to make scum think there is hope of someday mislynching me. Or maybe KJ just really hates me. I am not sure.
But first, Vaimes. This shouldn't take long. Although actually he had nearly 200 posts of uselessness, wow.
Vaimes first push is into KA.
Plausible scum on the early LW wagon, dislike his tom treatment, feel like his later LW read is a super specific/nitpicky thing that just exists to be a reason. [redacted] that's kinda coachy, I'll bring it up if it isn't self-resolving.
I skipped all the Grape stuff so I could do that separately; standby.
Judging based off this the team is never exactly KA/Tom
KJ is probably not scum based off the angle of attack against Grapefruit Vaimes uses here:
...Is that really the only way you can defend the complete lack of real, original basis behind the KJ read and your own attitude towards being run up?
Would surprise me if he attacked town so blatantly for an attack on a scum buddy.
In addition to completely brushing off those points as bandwagoning/sheeping, I have no idea where you're trying to go with your worldbuilding. Does it go something like "Vaimes does a catchup, votes for his buddy Kamikaze, but then completely takes it back just to bandwagon"?
Interesting angle about KA.
Tom day 1 from Vaimes iso:
So i still dont think wolfvaimes and towngrape is a thing, but otherwise dont really like vaimes so far. Not really buying me and wisp as his main townreads
Oops Tom failed.
Sheeps onto Lngrrr.
Votes Etr saying "this is correct" and says "Reaverb is town no matter what." iirc Etr is RE and Reaverb is now Highroller gosh it is hard not to assume both those slots are town. Both Vaimes and Anak took the exact same tact here and given the scum team we now know exists obviously RE's slot did not reveal a scum team of any sort so ... yeah there's just almost no way RE is scum here. Like, almost impossible unless this is some really next level stuff and I don't think it is next level because Vaimes and Anak weren't invested enough.
So hard town reads now look like:
Rodemy
Highroller
RE
With Tom/KA/KJJ/Lngrr being 2/4 scum if I am right.
Also tonally Vaimes treats KJ like town imo, but that's not definitive.
Given how many variables we're working with (whether or not EtR flips scum, and how that affects the rest of his list) and that we need EtR's alignment to even have a clue as to which direction to go on, I'm not gonna bother with juggling that many worlds.
Does... anyone at all want to try to argue with me that this is never a bus line of thought? This is pretty classically "Look, I am advocating the correct play! You can't fault this for me later!" when the town dies a horrible death.
Oh wait, is Tau Higheroller's light? God early replacements are confusing me <_<. It doesn't matter Highroller is clear for a lot of reasons to me.
don't stop being town just because you're incapable of perceiving it. And I don't know why you expected to accurately read me within three posts. Has that ever happened?
Nothing is universal, LnGR's play has never stood out to me in the past in however many games I've played with him, and I thought that the fear of death would get him to post or crumble. Obviously things aren't going that way, but I won't forget about him.
Boy that first line to KJ doesn't seem scum-scum to me. I am trying to keep an open mind but... liking my PoE of KA/Lngrr/Tom a lot!
And I already said I am not super keen on Tom/KA world so that means Lngrr not looking so hot right now!
Boy Vaimes continues to care a lot what KJ thinks as I read his iso.
I don't know why people are giving Kami so much *****. I think he's right, at least about town talking itself in circles with everyone trying to be the most correct person in the room. We've cycled through like, three or four major wagons, and people just wanna keep going up and down like a demented seesaw.
As long as a lynch lands on EtR, Rhand, or LnGR, I'm good. At this point I don't care about anything else. I'm a little concerned about Tau now, but it's not something I want to pursue without a flip elsewhere.
Oh there is no ******* way this isn't RO3.
##vote: LnGR
Tom doesn't have anything benefiting him in this ISO at all so far but yeah I see that and just go "NOPE."
you think an instance of rule of 3 outweighs wanting to kill eachother all game in a non theatrical way?
Honestly for Vaimes wanting to kill lngrrr he sure as hell failed a lot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
So, repeating my question from before: does anyone want to argue that KamikazeArchon is town?
Yup. Read my posts
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
I did. You list KA as third most likely to be mafia in one, and at another point you have a list of four people you believe the two remaining mafia are in, and KA is one of them.
I understand you think it's tom/LnGrrrR is more likely, but clearly you're suspicious of KA or else you would have lumped him in with your town reads.
Chris im curious if im still scum if lngrr is town? I kinda get me/lngrr as the remaining team if you just feel like ignoring me pushing what would be my entire team and mind/anaks posts towards me but...
At least there's scum motivation in pushing lngrr/vaimes being unaligned if partners with both but kinda failing to see what i would have been doing there if im right on lngrr being town now
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Tom: Give me a number. How sure are you that Lngrrr is never scum with Vaimes?
Idk if I have a number?
As i said i want to go confirm it but would say he leapfrogs kami for sure, probably highroller too into a "probably town" pile with you/re?
Kami is the biggest move overall rn. If lngrr is town anak may have been the only scum on him in that wagon I hated so much (because of vez and osi being town + lngrr being way less likely now)
Chris is my biggest question mark now. Certainly above Kami but man we are seeing the game so differently rn and there's still setup gaming but claim doesn't make sense unless scum with lngrr (and as opposed to kami/vez i do actually expect any fake claim he would make to make sense lol) and the way the anak lynch went down would be just a bit too hilarious as w/w.
But at the same time between me, tubba, possibly lngrr, and some of DVs stuff the slot has pushed more townies than me at this point. And it still bugs me he's willing to go with single posts over whole bodies of work (like the seemingly cherry picked rule of 3 from vaimes or the vez/Kami claims).
The claim itself/setupgaming is a bit weirder now. We know vez was town rb, and vaimes was an all manipulative role joat (was it a jail, a roleblock, and a busdrive?)
If kami really is town vig (or even SK) could definitely see scum having a BP thing, but then that night 2 (I think n2. The one with no kill) needs further explanation...
So yeah Kami my top suspect by a lot right now. But I'm also expecting 2 more scum total and not sure where to look for the 4th/3rd if not kami aorn
Like, there's a chance I guess multiple living scum ended the day on tubba.
But kami hopping on the end of an all town vaimes wagon then happily sticking there as we mislynched tubba makes a bit more sense.
As does any of kj/hr/re just staying out of it?
Feel like vaimes joining some townies (me and chris at the time) to save himself is most likely from this, and other buddies less likely to tack on to that tubba wagon by some amount
Also Vaimes was the mafia's answer for vig. Bus drive and jailkeep. Those are ways to protect scum.
Also without town vig I think we have 1 shot jk, roleblock, and bg as only night actions?
Also entire bodies of work are less reliable than flash point moments. More noise. If we had followed you day 2 and day 4 the game would be about over with osie and vezok lynched.
Also highroller I get it but when there are only 2 scum your # 3 scum is town lol.
I read the iso Vaimes pushed lngrr but was never really all in tbh. Would love to have a robust discussion about this.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Also Vaimes was the mafia's answer for vig. Bus drive and jailkeep. Those are ways to protect scum.
Also without town vig I think we have 1 shot jk, roleblock, and bg as only night actions?
Also entire bodies of work are less reliable than flash point moments. More noise. If we had followed you day 2 and day 4 the game would be about over with osie and vezok lynched.
Also highroller I get it but when there are only 2 scum your # 3 scum is town lol.
I read the iso Vaimes pushed lngrr but was never really all in tbh. Would love to have a robust discussion about this.
Oo!! A discussion I can get behind!
I need to get on a laptop, but i’ll Talk to you, Chris-Chan.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
@Chris, I don't see how you can hold Vaimes's lack of getting anything done this game against me. I am pretty sure Vaimes wasn't essential to any lynch; that was pretty much the main reason I read him as scum.
Also, Vezok flipping town means that somebody that I trust has to be a wolf. So.. Tom, Chris or KJ. Doesn't have to be necessarily figured out today, especially since all of them are pretty talkative, but something to put on the backburner.
Point to the scum there or try to challenge my townhood. My PoE method day 5 is pretty strong.
Tell me where I have gone wrong please. Tom has twice as much work to do in this regard but he is welcome to try.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
@chris
Strongly disagree that bodies of work can be ignored, especially when youre currently voting off a single instance of saying 3 names when theres many others, but hey you were right on vezok
Still think vaimes treated lngrr like a mislynch
Still disagree I should be in anyone's POE but I guess you really want me in yours if you really want to say I've been hero scum despite... Not having played to my win condition in any way in that world which... yeah. Pretty stupid still.
Idk maybe I should let myself omgus you you've been pushing me for days now and I really think you should know better.
Still haven't read mind/anaks posts about me, or my posts about either scum I take it?
I currently don't know who scum is.
Kami on behavior (still hasn't actually done anything. Only positive is an unproven and way too convenient claim)
Kj on teambuilding (has been fairly proscum, but is currently only info role)
Chris on agenda (but not the first chunk of time he was here)
HR on wtf how do you even read highroller
Don't think its ever rod.
RE would have had to hugely level up her scumgame
Lngrr doesn't seem scum with vaimes at all
Its...
Yeah finding 2 more feels a bit crazy rn
Currently defaulting to "well my teambuilding that cleared Kami was pretty strictly wrong so"
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Also I welcome anyone to build a scum case against me that involves hard defending both town Osie and town Vezok who were at -1 to the point that I saved both of them from being lynched. The game is over if I don't pull their asses from the fire repeatedly with hard conversations. Like... look I am trying to be nice here but I don't even see the case in any way. Like I am what Tom tries to project. "I've been so pro town!" while he spends days trying to murder town <_<.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
But I am open to all discussion points really. I just want to analyze a lot of information and come to a good conclusion on this. I think my view of the game is pretty accurate though and I actually have read a fair bit of the previous days. The problem is for Tom every time I read interactions I don't read them the way he wants. Like I went back with GJ for example and was like "no you're wrong he doesn't come off this way" and he kept calling me bad. Except I am not bad, I am awesome and had it right <_<
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Although if one was scum, the other would kill the other for that ability.
That's... actually a very good point. And a good reason for me to believe they're not T/S.
I am leaning toward scum!tom here. Osie and Vezok start to add up to a pattern, and I haven't liked his defense here. Nothing I can point to as a specific "slip", just a negative feeling.
I'm currently at Chris being most likely scum for pushing tom in opposition of the Vaimes wagon. Tom was basically unlynchable yesterday because of all the better candidates. Pushing off in Nowheresville is just something to look at.
Tom is actually probably never scum. I maybe could have been convinced that he bussed Anak to gain town points. He pushed Vaimes hard as well. I don't think that he does that as scum.
BTW @Tom: "fairly proscum"? I'm on a roll this game. What chu talking about?
KA still hasn't really made an impression on me. Could be scum.
I agree Rod probably isn't scum, except maybe with KA for confirming his jail shot. But behaviorally, unlikely.
RE and Highroller still kinda need evaluation. I'm still kinda at HR noob town.
I'm wondering if we shouldn't just full claim at this point to try to solve all the protectives. Something is off here, with Vaimes flipping what he did.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Although if one was scum, the other would kill the other for that ability.
That's... actually a very good point. And a good reason for me to believe they're not T/S.
I am leaning toward scum!tom here. Osie and Vezok start to add up to a pattern, and I haven't liked his defense here. Nothing I can point to as a specific "slip", just a negative feeling.
Still want lngr first.
I had thought that that's what Tau was doing with the gambit.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Killjoy I am done playing nice. You are straight up not reading the game if you are town for your logic. I prevented vezok from being the lynch at multiple points. Wanting to pursue other possible scum is not a bad thing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Like... Tom was trying to kill vezok pretty hard but now his pursuit of Vaimes is somehow amazing? What the **** is wrong with you? Like... what?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Also full claim at this time is completely acceptable.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
But anyway I wont be too bothered by KJ just trying to be silly towards me for now as I know I can eat any attacks against me pretty well.
What's everyone's two man team? This weekend I will deep dive more and look for interesting interactions. I will say that both anak and vaimsa voting RE's slot with really shady reasoning in hindsight tells the tale imo
1. Unlikely to bus in that spot
2. Unlikely to sheep onto a fellow scum gambit.
Not seeing highroller or RE as scum here at all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
I'm currently at Chris being most likely scum for pushing tom in opposition of the Vaimes wagon. Tom was basically unlynchable yesterday because of all the better candidates. Pushing off in Nowheresville is just something to look at.
Tom is actually probably never scum. I maybe could have been convinced that he bussed Anak to gain town points. He pushed Vaimes hard as well. I don't think that he does that as scum.
He did what now? Tom was on vezok hard. Am I having amnesia?
My top two man team right now is lngr/tom.
My paranoia two man team is KJ/chris, in a world where they decided "let's hard confirm a townie and push multiple busses for infinite town cred." TBH if you pulled that off then I say you just deserve the game.
Let me put it this way: who do I think is the most likely to be mafia? KamikazeArchon. It's not even close. And if we actually lynch KamikazeArchon, and he flips mafia? I'm definitely voting tomsloger, because duh.
Highroller that's a fair read. Quick question for you though: Does your opinion not get swayed by the fact that mafia had a jailkeeper and a bus driver? and some other targeting role (I forget atm what Vaimes third ability was) wich are traditional means of protection for scum?
Further, if my math is right if KA is scum that means town only had a one shot JK, a BG, and a roleblocker for night actions which would make it almost strange for scum to have a JK and a Bus Driver to effect them.
I like my logic here in terms of KA being less likely to be scum due to balance of the setup here. Also in an ironic twist town could have protection to also make the game less swingy if the vig is a bit ... reckless.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Let me put it this way: who do I think is the most likely to be mafia? KamikazeArchon. It's not even close. And if we actually lynch KamikazeArchon, and he flips mafia? I'm definitely voting tomsloger, because duh.
why duh?
How am I scum with Kami?
Because i thought he was town by worldbuilding but wanted to kill him anyway?
Because ive showed him maximum disrespect all game?
Because he currently wants to kill me *entirely* because chris made it an acceptable thing to think?
I went back and read through some tom on vaimes. And... I don't really see a strong push. Tom calls out a few things on vaimes, and even votes him - but he's never hard pushing him. Not the way, for example, he was pushing Osie. There's no appealing to others trying to convince them to switch vote. There's no persistence.
He's also devoted a huge amount of effort to defending himself.
I went back and read through some tom on vaimes. And... I don't really see a strong push. Tom calls out a few things on vaimes, and even votes him - but he's never hard pushing him. Not the way, for example, he was pushing Osie. There's no appealing to others trying to convince them to switch vote. There's no persistence.
He's also devoted a huge amount of effort to defending himself.
correct. I just casually wanted to kill him. No frills.
I did try to convince kj yesterday his townread was too easy.
Might have done same with someone else the day before? Idk you're the one that looked i certainly didn't believe it as strongly as osi or anak.
Yes, I'm defending myself.
-i think im pretty obviously town from both interactions and solving.
-i don't have any particularly strong scumreads.
What else am i gonna do? Try to make something up to convince people?
Why des Mafia have a jailkeeper and a bus driver (along with a possible backup for these roles in Anak's role) in a game without a town vig iyo?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Like... Tom was trying to kill vezok pretty hard but now his pursuit of Vaimes is somehow amazing? What the **** is wrong with you? Like... what?
that's pretty fair i thought?
I always wanted to kill vaimes, vezok only for a single day.
Hell, remember day 2 when i was tryba kill osi and you asked for another name and I gave you anak and you said "no how about vezok?" and I refused?
Yes I've pushed townies. So what bro I also pushed both dead scum much more consistently.
@kj werent you hard pushing vaimes town?
This is dented slightly by the fact that as I said "ok" and bashed Anak you kept voting and pushing Osie for days <_<
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
But fine, you are town. Lngrr is town too according to you. Find me the scum please.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang) 2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer 2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator) 2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia 2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational 2015 - Best Town Player 2015 - Best Mafia Player 2015 - Best Overall Player
Why des Mafia have a jailkeeper and a bus driver (along with a possible backup for these roles in Anak's role) in a game without a town vig iyo?
Idk you'll note my setupgaming is mostly flat now, and im not sure where it leaves me.
Don't think anyone's claim is moving the needle that much for me currently besides kj?
Neighbors... whatever
Kami could be vig
You're prolly BP
Idk man.
Killjoy I am done playing nice. You are straight up not reading the game if you are town for your logic. I prevented vezok from being the lynch at multiple points. Wanting to pursue other possible scum is not a bad thing.
Voting away from the scum wagon in the middle of nowhere is something scum like to do, and is not mutually exclusive with saving town. Actually, saving REALLY scummy town (like Vezok) might also be scummy because as town you'd be less likely to see through the scumminess. So, save the attacks on me for 'not reading the game'. Please stop pretending that you should only ever be read as town.
Tom: Yeah, Vaimes fooled me. And something can be said for Vezok. But aside from that, I feel like I've been pretty good about spotting town before they get lynched. Last kinda, Rhand... Tubba... Osie also kinda.
I haven't helped mislynch anyone this game. That's pretty awesome.
Absolutely would have lynched Vez were he not already dead. Woulda came into today doing that probably.
But, as far as reads go... this is one of my best games I feel like.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Oh man good for Town Chris I registered right away that Osie vote was pretty suspect from Vaimes. I am sorry Tubba I was still recovering from illness, please forgive me Vaimes should have been smote day 3.
Tom, after I begin a wagon on Anak that he specifically asked me to start, posts this:
So just to keep score.
Chris: Osie is town
Tom: WOWMG CHRIS IS BAD
Osie flips town.
Chris: Vezok is town
Tom: WOWMG CHRIS IS BAD, FOUR PROTECTIONS????????
Vezok flips town.
Look have all the conspiracies you want about me I am on my game for the most part barring fever this game, how about we just follow Chris and see what happens because I am feeling PRETTY GOOD about my game so far.
KA goes hard on Vaimes at some point. Vaimes response seems to be appeasing. Liking Lnggrr/Tom world a bit more.
Vaimes votes Lngrr again.
So at some point Vaimes day 3 has his bottom 3 as Lngrr/Tom/Vezok.
Points for anyone who guesses who, of those 3, he ends up on.
Oh wait there was also a Tubba involved (I AM SORRY)
Yeah so feeling pretty good about Lnggrr/Tom with Tom just being full on hero scum doing whatever he possibly can to save the day and let me just say if I have this exactly right Tom has my full respect he did a hell of a job.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Yup. Read my posts
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I understand you think it's tom/LnGrrrR is more likely, but clearly you're suspicious of KA or else you would have lumped him in with your town reads.
At least there's scum motivation in pushing lngrr/vaimes being unaligned if partners with both but kinda failing to see what i would have been doing there if im right on lngrr being town now
Tom: Give me a number. How sure are you that Lngrrr is never scum with Vaimes?
As i said i want to go confirm it but would say he leapfrogs kami for sure, probably highroller too into a "probably town" pile with you/re?
Kami is the biggest move overall rn. If lngrr is town anak may have been the only scum on him in that wagon I hated so much (because of vez and osi being town + lngrr being way less likely now)
Chris is my biggest question mark now. Certainly above Kami but man we are seeing the game so differently rn and there's still setup gaming but claim doesn't make sense unless scum with lngrr (and as opposed to kami/vez i do actually expect any fake claim he would make to make sense lol) and the way the anak lynch went down would be just a bit too hilarious as w/w.
But at the same time between me, tubba, possibly lngrr, and some of DVs stuff the slot has pushed more townies than me at this point. And it still bugs me he's willing to go with single posts over whole bodies of work (like the seemingly cherry picked rule of 3 from vaimes or the vez/Kami claims).
The claim itself/setupgaming is a bit weirder now. We know vez was town rb, and vaimes was an all manipulative role joat (was it a jail, a roleblock, and a busdrive?)
If kami really is town vig (or even SK) could definitely see scum having a BP thing, but then that night 2 (I think n2. The one with no kill) needs further explanation...
So yeah Kami my top suspect by a lot right now. But I'm also expecting 2 more scum total and not sure where to look for the 4th/3rd if not kami aorn
Vaimes, in response to Kami wagon:
Then vez and DV joined on Kami bringing it to:
Vezok(3):Grape, Kj, EtRKami (5): LnGrr,
Anak,osi, vez, chrisOsi(1):vezokAnak(2): tom,vaimesosi(1): RodNot Voting (3):
Tubba, Kami, HrThen after I went to tubba, vaimes/grape/rod/lngrr/vez joined for the final votecount (edited+colored):
But kami hopping on the end of an all town vaimes wagon then happily sticking there as we mislynched tubba makes a bit more sense.
As does any of kj/hr/re just staying out of it?
Feel like vaimes joining some townies (me and chris at the time) to save himself is most likely from this, and other buddies less likely to tack on to that tubba wagon by some amount
Also without town vig I think we have 1 shot jk, roleblock, and bg as only night actions?
Also entire bodies of work are less reliable than flash point moments. More noise. If we had followed you day 2 and day 4 the game would be about over with osie and vezok lynched.
Also highroller I get it but when there are only 2 scum your # 3 scum is town lol.
I read the iso Vaimes pushed lngrr but was never really all in tbh. Would love to have a robust discussion about this.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Oo!! A discussion I can get behind!
I need to get on a laptop, but i’ll Talk to you, Chris-Chan.
La famiglia è la patria del cuore.
(Family is where the heart is.)
LnGrrrR (2): KamikazeArchon, Sir Chris
tomsloger (1): Rodemy
KamikazeArchon (1): Highroller
Not Voting (4): RE1031, tomsloger, Killjoy, LnGrrrR
V/LA: KamikazeArchon (April 19th-21st, April 26th-28th, May 3rd-5th)
With 8 alive, it’s 5 to lynch. Deadline is on April 25th.
Also, Vezok flipping town means that somebody that I trust has to be a wolf. So.. Tom, Chris or KJ. Doesn't have to be necessarily figured out today, especially since all of them are pretty talkative, but something to put on the backburner.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Rodemy/RE/Highroller/KJ/KA
Point to the scum there or try to challenge my townhood. My PoE method day 5 is pretty strong.
Tell me where I have gone wrong please. Tom has twice as much work to do in this regard but he is welcome to try.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Strongly disagree that bodies of work can be ignored, especially when youre currently voting off a single instance of saying 3 names when theres many others, but hey you were right on vezok
Still think vaimes treated lngrr like a mislynch
Still disagree I should be in anyone's POE but I guess you really want me in yours if you really want to say I've been hero scum despite... Not having played to my win condition in any way in that world which... yeah. Pretty stupid still.
Idk maybe I should let myself omgus you you've been pushing me for days now and I really think you should know better.
Still haven't read mind/anaks posts about me, or my posts about either scum I take it?
Kami on behavior (still hasn't actually done anything. Only positive is an unproven and way too convenient claim)
Kj on teambuilding (has been fairly proscum, but is currently only info role)
Chris on agenda (but not the first chunk of time he was here)
HR on wtf how do you even read highroller
Don't think its ever rod.
RE would have had to hugely level up her scumgame
Lngrr doesn't seem scum with vaimes at all
Its...
Yeah finding 2 more feels a bit crazy rn
Currently defaulting to "well my teambuilding that cleared Kami was pretty strictly wrong so"
Tbh I think lngrr/Tom/Chris/kami/ are likely to hold last scum.
Re/highroller still need to be discussed because they are getting more and more likely to be T/S or even S/S.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Statistics tbh. Although if one was scum, the other would kill the other for that ability.
Idk maybe they are waiting to endgame but I think they both have skated this entire game and I really don’t like it
I am leaning toward scum!tom here. Osie and Vezok start to add up to a pattern, and I haven't liked his defense here. Nothing I can point to as a specific "slip", just a negative feeling.
Still want lngr first.
If one were to die the other would be under extreme scrutiny and suspicion.
Tom is actually probably never scum. I maybe could have been convinced that he bussed Anak to gain town points. He pushed Vaimes hard as well. I don't think that he does that as scum.
BTW @Tom: "fairly proscum"? I'm on a roll this game. What chu talking about?
KA still hasn't really made an impression on me. Could be scum.
I agree Rod probably isn't scum, except maybe with KA for confirming his jail shot. But behaviorally, unlikely.
RE and Highroller still kinda need evaluation. I'm still kinda at HR noob town.
I'm wondering if we shouldn't just full claim at this point to try to solve all the protectives. Something is off here, with Vaimes flipping what he did.
I had thought that that's what Tau was doing with the gambit.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
What's everyone's two man team? This weekend I will deep dive more and look for interesting interactions. I will say that both anak and vaimsa voting RE's slot with really shady reasoning in hindsight tells the tale imo
1. Unlikely to bus in that spot
2. Unlikely to sheep onto a fellow scum gambit.
Not seeing highroller or RE as scum here at all.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
...
Slow. Clap.
My top two man team right now is lngr/tom.
My paranoia two man team is KJ/chris, in a world where they decided "let's hard confirm a townie and push multiple busses for infinite town cred." TBH if you pulled that off then I say you just deserve the game.
Further, if my math is right if KA is scum that means town only had a one shot JK, a BG, and a roleblocker for night actions which would make it almost strange for scum to have a JK and a Bus Driver to effect them.
I like my logic here in terms of KA being less likely to be scum due to balance of the setup here. Also in an ironic twist town could have protection to also make the game less swingy if the vig is a bit ... reckless.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I always wanted to kill vaimes, vezok only for a single day.
Hell, remember day 2 when i was tryba kill osi and you asked for another name and I gave you anak and you said "no how about vezok?" and I refused?
Yes I've pushed townies. So what bro I also pushed both dead scum much more consistently.
@kj werent you hard pushing vaimes town?
How am I scum with Kami?
Because i thought he was town by worldbuilding but wanted to kill him anyway?
Because ive showed him maximum disrespect all game?
Because he currently wants to kill me *entirely* because chris made it an acceptable thing to think?
He's also devoted a huge amount of effort to defending himself.
I did try to convince kj yesterday his townread was too easy.
Might have done same with someone else the day before? Idk you're the one that looked i certainly didn't believe it as strongly as osi or anak.
Yes, I'm defending myself.
-i think im pretty obviously town from both interactions and solving.
-i don't have any particularly strong scumreads.
What else am i gonna do? Try to make something up to convince people?
Why des Mafia have a jailkeeper and a bus driver (along with a possible backup for these roles in Anak's role) in a game without a town vig iyo?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
This is dented slightly by the fact that as I said "ok" and bashed Anak you kept voting and pushing Osie for days <_<
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Don't think anyone's claim is moving the needle that much for me currently besides kj?
Neighbors... whatever
Kami could be vig
You're prolly BP
Idk man.
Tom: Yeah, Vaimes fooled me. And something can be said for Vezok. But aside from that, I feel like I've been pretty good about spotting town before they get lynched. Last kinda, Rhand... Tubba... Osie also kinda.
I haven't helped mislynch anyone this game. That's pretty awesome.
Absolutely would have lynched Vez were he not already dead. Woulda came into today doing that probably.
But, as far as reads go... this is one of my best games I feel like.