It's like we're playing two different games... I went deep on Kami being an SK like a week ago and came to the conclusion that even if he is keeping him alive at least 1 more phase is correct. If he is an SK his targetting has to be pro town or he dies. If he's a vig then sweet.
Anyway I'm mildly surprised at the lack of Tubba momentum. I thought my tone read was the main thing keeping him alive. I guess it wasn't.
... What are you on about? You voted KamikazeArchon due to you being suspicious of his claim of absurd vig kill chances. Why are you reacting with surprise that I find that suspicious when I've already been suspicious of KamikazArchon since day one?
Too bad you're in an obvious minority. Yes you got burned in GB. That's because no one thought critically about what it meant to leave him alive and what the benefits and or costs would be.
Secondly... Like, have you read my posts? I don't see how you can draw that conclusion from reading my posts. I was asking questions, sure. The intent was to get into people's heads. I was trying to solve people's alignments.
To appear like you're trying to solve people's alignments, sure.
Why does it matter how much interest there was in the wagon?
We had someone who I think screams out that he's mafia whom no one, at least at the time, was willing to vote for, and we have another person whom I believe had outed himself as mafia whom everyone was voting for. So yeah.
I vaguely recall the rest of this being true? Osie was kinda on you IIRC.
You've played a recent game, right? The first stretch of game is people voting either randomly or jokingly. It's to help like... unwind and get into the game, and give people something to react to. I voted for Last this game jokingly. I don't think I ever actually thought he was scum.
Ah, so you're saying the scum killed Last to create scum equity on the people on his wagon? I doubt that. Trying to assert that scum killed Last to create scum equity on the people on his wagon is wine. And "You helped lynch town, therefore you might not be" is just a weak argument.
I don't know what scum equity means.
I believe the Rhandwagon was entirely pointless. There was never any logical reason to vote Rhand. LastWhisper had voted for Rhand. Killing LastWhisper would have a town flip on a guy who voted Rhand, which might serve to help the people who had voted Rhand look more town.
But it also gives scum ALL the info. They already have the most info about the setup, knowing multiple roles. Claiming all our roles gives them an advantage.
No it doesn't!
You're worried the mafia might have an advantage? They already do! It's called knowing who the mafia are. The whole point of mafia is that the mafia know who they are, the town do not know who the mafia are, the mafia need to keep the towns from finding out who they are. Keeping the town in the dark is how the mafia win. Finding out information is how the town is able to win.
Mass claiming now would not give the mafia any advantage. It would give the town an advantage because we would now be able to isolate what happened in nights 1 and 3, and figure out who could have been a target, as well has who could have been the person who carried out a kill attempt. It would be absolute foolishness to not do so.
[qupte]They serve to summarize and consolidate people's reads. [/quote]They also serve to showcase how ******* wrong people are.
Learned in Secret Agent Mafia that they're a complete waste of time.
And by not doing something productive with your vote when it's obvious that town doesn't want to pursue that angle you are giving mafia more control over the game.
Also mass claiming does give mafia information. Not always valuable information but definitely information.
And by not doing something productive with your vote when it's obvious that town doesn't want to pursue that angle you are giving mafia more control over the game.
Also mass claiming does give mafia information. Not always valuable information but definitely information.
Oh noes, the mafia might gain non-valuable information. That totally justifies not trying to figure out where the nightkills went night 1 and 3 and winning the game.
You don't get to preach about the intricacies of slight edges for mass claiming while spewing away similar small edges because you got burnt in your last game.
Well I mean you do because you can do whatever you want but it's a not a great look and makes people less likely to listen to you.
Also on the information front given how many people claimed trying to explain the kill situation I strongly believe anyone who had knowledge pertaining to that has claimed. If there are non protection roles there is value to keeping them hidden.
Can we speed up this lynch? The last 5 days have been completely useless. We should make up our minds and end the day instead of dragging it forever.
Also keeping KA alive was probably the right play. We just failed at catching any other scum. KA claimed all his track targets correctly iirc so him being scum didn't make us blind to other scum.
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Too bad you're in an obvious minority. Yes you got burned in GB. That's because no one thought critically about what it meant to leave him alive and what the benefits and or costs would be.
What can KA do if not town here?
... So...
12 people alive
Approximately 3 hostiles
2 people dead by the end of today
Please let's not lynch Vezok. I am asking nicely and everything. Let's lynch Tubba instead. Good ole Tubba
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In anticipation of my speed lynch with the most town read players signing off on it, (Grape, Chris, Tom, and KJ) I’d be very shocked if one of them wasn’t scum.
Grape is probably the most egregious here, but I definitely saw townGrape earlier. Maybe I just got fooled but I dunno. It’s just strange that once I actually start to participate more he flips his opinion on me, and never really explains it.
Chris doesn’t know me from Adam and players who fancy themselves as all stars tend to have difficulties slotting my admittedly poor play as anything other than scum, and I’ve mentioned that unless Osie has an amazing scum role, Chris is likely just town. (Wrong town, which is kinda delicious for me)
Tom is just good and hard to pin down. As far as his “Tubba Whisperer” status, half the games he knew my alignment from game start due to being scum with me or scum against me. He’s perfectly capable of bussing Anak and giving up day chat wouldn’t faze him much, but if you know how to read Tom you don’t need me anyways.
KJ is the crux to a lot of things. His claim is the most quizzical part of his game. I think I just believe it, but his case against me from early is just not a good read on me, you can read any game of mine and reach that same conclusion that early. The fact that I saw townGrape and that he backed off me to look around seems more town than just riding me to a mislynch would.
I’d look long and hard at these guys after my death, and Chris and Tom especially.
LngGrr is still very likely scum here. That he’s reading as townie to anyone is baffling.
If Vaimes is scum, at least he’s twitching to show he’s still alive and not willing to just let the deep wolf carry all the weight.
Kami and Vez are in the “should be clearly resolved shortly” pile. If they’re lying with their claims it should catch them soon.
Highroller is doing his “everyone spill everything and I’ll believe it” thing that he did as town in Ghostbusters. I don’t agree with his Kami push but I can see how he gets there. Coupling that with how unlikely it is to me that scumTau pulls such a ridiculous gambit, townlean.
Re1031 is absolutely right that I should base my opinion on the slot on their play and not on possible Tomceptions about how there should be scum in the four connected players. I stand by my scum feelings about EtR, but I need to see more from Re1031 before I’d lynch the slot.
Rodemy...
Conspiracy theories. Check.
Suspicious of Tom. Check.
That’s good enough for me, probably town.
Tubba, played his worst game yet, needs to work on his wallflower reticence to post and put his opinions out there.
I'm only mildly concerned I'm gonna have to work my ass off toMorrow to not get lynched, because vezok looks like he's trying to fake-distance from me.
Also I read the Grape claim as a hypothetical but clarification there is definitely needed now.
Too bad you're in an obvious minority. Yes you got burned in GB. That's because no one thought critically about what it meant to leave him alive and what the benefits and or costs would be.
What can KA do if not town here?
... So...
12 people alive
Approximately 3 hostiles
2 people dead by the end of today
Can you please point me to when you stopped scum reading Osi?
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It is not a "slight edge" to figure out who is mafia. It's the entire game.
How does my claiming Benito the watcher who hasn't seen anyone target Tom help you solve anything?
Hold up. Didn't Vezok claim to have RBed tom N1? So this is a straight up CC of vezok? Is this a real claim or a hypothetical?
Benito’s probably my least favourite ninja turtle.
Oh. Right.
Facetiousness aside, I took it as Grape trying to make a point that everybody claiming isn’t going to do what Highroller wants it to, by dint of it being easy for people to lie about it.
Why does it matter how much interest there was in the wagon?
We had someone who I think screams out that he's mafia whom no one, at least at the time, was willing to vote for, and we have another person whom I believe had outed himself as mafia whom everyone was voting for. So yeah.
But I was saying that your language towards the read of Kami was more aggressive and certain than your language toward Osie. Hence my original question.
But as for this question, I'm asking why town cares about the interest in a particular wagon vs. another if you think the one you're more sure of is scum despite there being no interest there?
I vaguely recall the rest of this being true? Osie was kinda on you IIRC.
I don't know what IIRC means.
If I Recall Correctly.
Ah, so you're saying the scum killed Last to create scum equity on the people on his wagon? I doubt that. Trying to assert that scum killed Last to create scum equity on the people on his wagon is wine. And "You helped lynch town, therefore you might not be" is just a weak argument.
I don't know what scum equity means.[/quote]I only just learned it this game from tom. I interpret it as kind of like a quantifiable "likelihood to be scum". Like you're saying here that scum killed last to invoke scumreads on the people on the wagon because they were on the wagon. Therefore they have scum equity because they're on the wagon.
I believe the Rhandwagon was entirely pointless. There was never any logical reason to vote Rhand. LastWhisper had voted for Rhand. Killing LastWhisper would have a town flip on a guy who voted Rhand, which might serve to help the people who had voted Rhand look more town.
Ok. That means there are probably scum on that wagon. Who and why?
But it also gives scum ALL the info. They already have the most info about the setup, knowing multiple roles. Claiming all our roles gives them an advantage.
No it doesn't!
You're worried the mafia might have an advantage? They already do! It's called knowing who the mafia are. The whole point of mafia is that the mafia know who they are, the town do not know who the mafia are, the mafia need to keep the towns from finding out who they are. Keeping the town in the dark is how the mafia win. Finding out information is how the town is able to win.
Mass claiming now would not give the mafia any advantage. It would give the town an advantage because we would now be able to isolate what happened in nights 1 and 3, and figure out who could have been a target, as well has who could have been the person who carried out a kill attempt. It would be absolute foolishness to not do so.
Grape covered this a bit but I think you're wrong.
Mafia gain more of an advantage than they already have, whereas we don't gain enough to make up for that. Outing all the investigatives and protectives to mafia is just not... good. Like at all. Typical meta is to wait until LyLo to massclaim because it limits the advantage deficit in order to solve the game quickly.
I'll give you this: Massclaims usually catch 1 (MAYBE 2) scum. But then town usually loses from there.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Grape can't be Benito! He's only half-turtle. April had him with one of the other turtles but she doesn't know which one.
It's a source of conflict in the team.
Unrelatedly though. You know what's weird? I just had a thought about tom/Highroller. Tom keeps trying to showhorn me into his lynchpool. And if tom was in fact powerwolfing early game... Hm.
And Highroller. He's hard. Like his Last kill theory is so far out in left field that it feels like he's just not part of a scumteam that talked about it. On the other hand though, he's playing the noob card really hard. He even said he didn't know what RVS was to continue pursuing the last wagon... after Vezok answered that for him. He even quotes it in 2052. And his aggressive massclaim proposal is odd. And his lack of wanting to t/s list is odd as well.
Maybe I actually need to read Ghostbusters to see why everyone is so traumatized by it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Highroller has aggressively proposed massclaim from Day 1 in every game I've been in with him.
Highroller has, more generally, had extremely unorthodox Mafia theories - sometimes conflicting with what we take as basic assumptions on MTGS - in every game I've been in with him.
I don't think those things are alignment indicative.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
It'e the 'hanging back' I'm confused about. Other than that I think I understand your argument.
Lets try this. What's the difference between hanging back and asking questions, and not hanging back and asking questions?
You know what it is? I haven't been able to put it into words until just now. It's the fact that it feels like you're putting a lot of effort into maintaining a facade of neutrality. Your posts drip of this facade of being objective.
And that's, at least in my experience, a common mafia tactic. Play the guy in the armchair who is totally objective, "just trying to understand your point of view," while at the same time asking these questions to passive-aggressively manipulate and exploit weaknesses.
But I was saying that your language towards the read of Kami was more aggressive and certain than your language toward Osie. Hence my original question.
But as for this question, I'm asking why town cares about the interest in a particular wagon vs. another if you think the one you're more sure of is scum despite there being no interest there?
I don't understand how this isn't self-explanatory. You just saw me vote vezok because I have no chance of getting KA lynched today.
Ok. That means there are probably scum on that wagon. Who and why?
See, this is what I'm talking about with the passive-aggressiveness. Obviously I don't know who's mafia on that wagon, I'm not the mafia nor the game mod nor an inspector, but you're using that as an attempt to discredit me, all the while trying to play the man in the armchair who's only asking questions to try to understand my point of view.
Mafia gain more of an advantage than they already have
That's ridiculous. The town's weakness is lack of information. The mafia advantage is that they control the flow of information. The game is played on their terms. Forcing a mass claim is one of the few ways to flip this. It forces the mafia in a situation in which they either have to give up information against their will or lie. Either one opens up defenses.
Contrariwise, the town's advantage is numbers. The mafia's weakness is their being outnumbered. The way to deprive the town of their advantage is to sit on information as more towns die.
Grape is probably the most egregious here, but I definitely saw townGrape earlier.
Interesting. I saw the opposite. Granted, it's Grape, so there's always a huge margin of error there, but it's another reason I'd like to see Killjoy flip.
If KJ’s not using that info to discredit you, then isn’t it just more likely it’s them trying to gain information? I think you’re taking it too literally or maybe binary is the word I’m looking for. Asking questions isn’t going to be a very helpful scum tell. What do you see about his questions that makes them manipulative?
I can only assume KJ doesn’t expect you to know who the scum is on the wagon, but they want to know who you THINK the scum on the wagon is. If you’re not sure, that’s fine and say that but it’s not a good look imo to attack the question. It makes you look like you’re trying to hide info. You’re opinion, right or wrong can open people’s eyes to other possibilities, things they hadn’t thought about.
We can talk about Grape for instance, what did you see that made him look scummy?
I can only assume KJ doesn’t expect you to know who the scum is on the wagon, but they want to know who you THINK the scum on the wagon is. If you’re not sure, that’s fine and say that but it’s not a good look imo to attack the question.
... If I don't know, how could I be sure? If I'm not sure, how can I know?
That's like saying, "You shouldn't say you're wearing pink, but it's ok to say you're wearing light red." That's what those words mean.
We can talk about Grape for instance, what did you see that made him look scummy?
He was on every major bandwagon on Day 1 (LastWhisper, EtR, and Rhand).
I'm sensing a large meta shift from the times when Highroller used to play and now.
Highroller:Tubba's right. I meant that, since you think the Rhand wagon was ridiculous, then you thought there was scum on the wagon. I assumed you would have followed that train of thought through to trying to figure out who the scum might be. So, yes. I was asking who you think the scum on the wagon are. Also:
I can only assume KJ doesn’t expect you to know who the scum is on the wagon, but they want to know who you THINK the scum on the wagon is. If you’re not sure, that’s fine and say that but it’s not a good look imo to attack the question. It makes you look like you’re trying to hide info. You’re opinion, right or wrong can open people’s eyes to other possibilities, things they hadn’t thought about.
We can talk about Grape for instance, what did you see that made him look scummy?
Adding to this, Highroller... it gives me your perspective. Stepping into your shoes, I can kind of... guess what perspective I expect from a town!you. Or a scum!you. It shows me the lines of thought you're using to figure out the game.
Fundamentally, scum aren't town, obviously. That means they aren't having natural thoughts about who they think is town from the perspective of an ignorant townie; because they aren't one.
This is where t/s lists also come in handy. They spell out and consolidate all your lines of thought on the game into one post. That sentence on Grape is what I am looking for on all players. It shows what you're looking at in terms of solving alignments.
Aside: I've liked a lot of Tubba today. I prefer a Vez lynch. Would be ok with LnGrrR too but. Not as much?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Adding to this, Highroller... it gives me your perspective. Stepping into your shoes, I can kind of... guess what perspective I expect from a town!you. Or a scum!you. It shows me the lines of thought you're using to figure out the game.
Fundamentally, scum aren't town, obviously. That means they aren't having natural thoughts about who they think is town from the perspective of an ignorant townie; because they aren't one.
This is where t/s lists also come in handy. They spell out and consolidate all your lines of thought on the game into one post. That sentence on Grape is what I am looking for on all players. It shows what you're looking at in terms of solving alignments.
You're not looking for my perspective, Killjoy. You're pretending to look for mafia because the one who spends his time hanging back asking questions of everyone is the one who gets the least questions asked of him. Or did you think you're the first person who thought of the idea that the best defense is a good offense?
Adding to this, Highroller... it gives me your perspective. Stepping into your shoes, I can kind of... guess what perspective I expect from a town!you. Or a scum!you. It shows me the lines of thought you're using to figure out the game.
Fundamentally, scum aren't town, obviously. That means they aren't having natural thoughts about who they think is town from the perspective of an ignorant townie; because they aren't one.
This is where t/s lists also come in handy. They spell out and consolidate all your lines of thought on the game into one post. That sentence on Grape is what I am looking for on all players. It shows what you're looking at in terms of solving alignments.
You're not looking for my perspective, Killjoy. You're pretending to look for mafia because the one who spends his time hanging back asking questions of everyone is the one who gets the least questions asked of him. Or did you think you're the first person who thought of the idea that the best defense is a good offense?
There's nothing stopping anyone from asking me questions. Also people who ask questions get questions asked of them all the time?
I'm trying to look at your perspective. Your perspective is just very weird.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
For the record I did not realize Benito was a character in the ninja turtles world it was just the first Italian name that wasn't a ninja turtle I thought of. How I didn't land on Tony they world may never know.
Anyway my claim was very obviously not serious but the larger point was.
Vote: Vaimes
I don't have a strong read on which person in the PoE to vote. I guess Tubba's post was fine. If this makes Vaines post I'd be happy. Town!Vaimes is the best.
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? What are you on about. Take me on a trip here
Anyway I'm mildly surprised at the lack of Tubba momentum. I thought my tone read was the main thing keeping him alive. I guess it wasn't.
TMI Grape.
No, I am not doing this ***** after Ghostbusters mafia.
What can KA do if not town here?
We had someone who I think screams out that he's mafia whom no one, at least at the time, was willing to vote for, and we have another person whom I believe had outed himself as mafia whom everyone was voting for. So yeah.
I don't know what IIRC means.
Yeah, I'll give you that.
I don't know what scum equity means.
I believe the Rhandwagon was entirely pointless. There was never any logical reason to vote Rhand. LastWhisper had voted for Rhand. Killing LastWhisper would have a town flip on a guy who voted Rhand, which might serve to help the people who had voted Rhand look more town.
No it doesn't!
You're worried the mafia might have an advantage? They already do! It's called knowing who the mafia are. The whole point of mafia is that the mafia know who they are, the town do not know who the mafia are, the mafia need to keep the towns from finding out who they are. Keeping the town in the dark is how the mafia win. Finding out information is how the town is able to win.
Mass claiming now would not give the mafia any advantage. It would give the town an advantage because we would now be able to isolate what happened in nights 1 and 3, and figure out who could have been a target, as well has who could have been the person who carried out a kill attempt. It would be absolute foolishness to not do so.
[qupte]They serve to summarize and consolidate people's reads. [/quote]They also serve to showcase how ******* wrong people are.
Learned in Secret Agent Mafia that they're a complete waste of time.
Irrelevant. I'm not going to sit around and let KamikazeArchon skate on by without being lynched a second time.
Also mass claiming does give mafia information. Not always valuable information but definitely information.
Oh noes, the mafia might gain non-valuable information. That totally justifies not trying to figure out where the nightkills went night 1 and 3 and winning the game.
Well I mean you do because you can do whatever you want but it's a not a great look and makes people less likely to listen to you.
Also keeping KA alive was probably the right play. We just failed at catching any other scum. KA claimed all his track targets correctly iirc so him being scum didn't make us blind to other scum.
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Im definitely v/la
Anyway. Staying on vez for now. Would hammer vaimes or tubba.
And no highroller, no one is claiming because you said so. Nor should they. Getting tired of this from you tbh.
Rod, were not killing kami... today.
Vote Vezok.
I have already told you I don't feel like playing and won't replace out because it will modkill my slot.
I'm really not in the mood for coming here every day to post non-sense when nothing else will happen.
If I'm the designated lynch so be it, but just get it over.
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-------
... So...
12 people alive
Approximately 3 hostiles
2 people dead by the end of today
10 players remaining - 2 (nightkills) = 8 people remaining = LYLO
tl;dr: He could KILL PEOPLE. WHICH IS BAD.
How does my claiming Benito the watcher who hasn't seen anyone target Tom help you solve anything?
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I’m pretty much following the herd here since all my ideas have been shot down.
Grape is probably the most egregious here, but I definitely saw townGrape earlier. Maybe I just got fooled but I dunno. It’s just strange that once I actually start to participate more he flips his opinion on me, and never really explains it.
Chris doesn’t know me from Adam and players who fancy themselves as all stars tend to have difficulties slotting my admittedly poor play as anything other than scum, and I’ve mentioned that unless Osie has an amazing scum role, Chris is likely just town. (Wrong town, which is kinda delicious for me)
Tom is just good and hard to pin down. As far as his “Tubba Whisperer” status, half the games he knew my alignment from game start due to being scum with me or scum against me. He’s perfectly capable of bussing Anak and giving up day chat wouldn’t faze him much, but if you know how to read Tom you don’t need me anyways.
KJ is the crux to a lot of things. His claim is the most quizzical part of his game. I think I just believe it, but his case against me from early is just not a good read on me, you can read any game of mine and reach that same conclusion that early. The fact that I saw townGrape and that he backed off me to look around seems more town than just riding me to a mislynch would.
I’d look long and hard at these guys after my death, and Chris and Tom especially.
LngGrr is still very likely scum here. That he’s reading as townie to anyone is baffling.
If Vaimes is scum, at least he’s twitching to show he’s still alive and not willing to just let the deep wolf carry all the weight.
Kami and Vez are in the “should be clearly resolved shortly” pile. If they’re lying with their claims it should catch them soon.
Highroller is doing his “everyone spill everything and I’ll believe it” thing that he did as town in Ghostbusters. I don’t agree with his Kami push but I can see how he gets there. Coupling that with how unlikely it is to me that scumTau pulls such a ridiculous gambit, townlean.
Re1031 is absolutely right that I should base my opinion on the slot on their play and not on possible Tomceptions about how there should be scum in the four connected players. I stand by my scum feelings about EtR, but I need to see more from Re1031 before I’d lynch the slot.
Rodemy...
Conspiracy theories. Check.
Suspicious of Tom. Check.
That’s good enough for me, probably town.
Tubba, played his worst game yet, needs to work on his wallflower reticence to post and put his opinions out there.
To town, I’m sorry. To scum, you’re welcome.
How about we don't lynch tubba. He's been giving town signals all game and doesn't even come close to Vaimes levels of scummy.
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vote vaimes let's go
Also I read the Grape claim as a hypothetical but clarification there is definitely needed now.
Benito’s probably my least favourite ninja turtle.
...Highroller-kun
Can you please point me to when you stopped scum reading Osi?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Facetiousness aside, I took it as Grape trying to make a point that everybody claiming isn’t going to do what Highroller wants it to, by dint of it being easy for people to lie about it.
I didn't. I was pointing out a worst-case scenario.
Lets try this. What's the difference between hanging back and asking questions, and not hanging back and asking questions?
But I was saying that your language towards the read of Kami was more aggressive and certain than your language toward Osie. Hence my original question.
But as for this question, I'm asking why town cares about the interest in a particular wagon vs. another if you think the one you're more sure of is scum despite there being no interest there?
If I Recall Correctly.
I don't know what scum equity means.[/quote]I only just learned it this game from tom. I interpret it as kind of like a quantifiable "likelihood to be scum". Like you're saying here that scum killed last to invoke scumreads on the people on the wagon because they were on the wagon. Therefore they have scum equity because they're on the wagon.
Ok. That means there are probably scum on that wagon. Who and why?
Grape covered this a bit but I think you're wrong.
Mafia gain more of an advantage than they already have, whereas we don't gain enough to make up for that. Outing all the investigatives and protectives to mafia is just not... good. Like at all. Typical meta is to wait until LyLo to massclaim because it limits the advantage deficit in order to solve the game quickly.
I'll give you this: Massclaims usually catch 1 (MAYBE 2) scum. But then town usually loses from there.
It's a source of conflict in the team.
Unrelatedly though. You know what's weird? I just had a thought about tom/Highroller. Tom keeps trying to showhorn me into his lynchpool. And if tom was in fact powerwolfing early game... Hm.
And Highroller. He's hard. Like his Last kill theory is so far out in left field that it feels like he's just not part of a scumteam that talked about it. On the other hand though, he's playing the noob card really hard. He even said he didn't know what RVS was to continue pursuing the last wagon... after Vezok answered that for him. He even quotes it in 2052. And his aggressive massclaim proposal is odd. And his lack of wanting to t/s list is odd as well.
Maybe I actually need to read Ghostbusters to see why everyone is so traumatized by it.
RE: Dude, you promised content. Please provide.
Highroller has, more generally, had extremely unorthodox Mafia theories - sometimes conflicting with what we take as basic assumptions on MTGS - in every game I've been in with him.
I don't think those things are alignment indicative.
Reevaluating.
I definitely like Tubba's "last stand" post more than Vezok's "I surrender" post.
Has Tubba claimed yet? I don't remember. If he has claimed VT, it's probably just correct to keep Vezok alive and let him prove his ability.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I have not. The standard L-2 claim from me.
And that's, at least in my experience, a common mafia tactic. Play the guy in the armchair who is totally objective, "just trying to understand your point of view," while at the same time asking these questions to passive-aggressively manipulate and exploit weaknesses.
I don't understand how this isn't self-explanatory. You just saw me vote vezok because I have no chance of getting KA lynched today.
See, this is what I'm talking about with the passive-aggressiveness. Obviously I don't know who's mafia on that wagon, I'm not the mafia nor the game mod nor an inspector, but you're using that as an attempt to discredit me, all the while trying to play the man in the armchair who's only asking questions to try to understand my point of view.
That's ridiculous. The town's weakness is lack of information. The mafia advantage is that they control the flow of information. The game is played on their terms. Forcing a mass claim is one of the few ways to flip this. It forces the mafia in a situation in which they either have to give up information against their will or lie. Either one opens up defenses.
Contrariwise, the town's advantage is numbers. The mafia's weakness is their being outnumbered. The way to deprive the town of their advantage is to sit on information as more towns die.
Interesting. I saw the opposite. Granted, it's Grape, so there's always a huge margin of error there, but it's another reason I'd like to see Killjoy flip.
We can talk about Grape for instance, what did you see that made him look scummy?
... If I don't know, how could I be sure? If I'm not sure, how can I know?
That's like saying, "You shouldn't say you're wearing pink, but it's ok to say you're wearing light red." That's what those words mean.
He was on every major bandwagon on Day 1 (LastWhisper, EtR, and Rhand).
Highroller:Tubba's right. I meant that, since you think the Rhand wagon was ridiculous, then you thought there was scum on the wagon. I assumed you would have followed that train of thought through to trying to figure out who the scum might be. So, yes. I was asking who you think the scum on the wagon are. Also:
Adding to this, Highroller... it gives me your perspective. Stepping into your shoes, I can kind of... guess what perspective I expect from a town!you. Or a scum!you. It shows me the lines of thought you're using to figure out the game.
Fundamentally, scum aren't town, obviously. That means they aren't having natural thoughts about who they think is town from the perspective of an ignorant townie; because they aren't one.
This is where t/s lists also come in handy. They spell out and consolidate all your lines of thought on the game into one post. That sentence on Grape is what I am looking for on all players. It shows what you're looking at in terms of solving alignments.
Aside: I've liked a lot of Tubba today. I prefer a Vez lynch. Would be ok with LnGrrR too but. Not as much?
I'm trying to look at your perspective. Your perspective is just very weird.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Anyway my claim was very obviously not serious but the larger point was.
Vote: Vaimes
I don't have a strong read on which person in the PoE to vote. I guess Tubba's post was fine. If this makes Vaines post I'd be happy. Town!Vaimes is the best.