@Vaimes I work in a grocery store that has a Starbucks that also has no Wifi. It's weird. Soon I would guess.
Re: Suboptimal play: I mean I guess, but we don't even know if scum don't have some ability to play around that (with BG, apperent BP, appearent 1shot JK, and apperent RB) I would put more stock in worlds WITH a strongman/whatever than without right now. THAT of course assume all 4 of those claims are town. Not gonna bother gaming the setup though because I'm more likely gonna be wrong.
Aside from that, Vezok's reaction to being lynched isn't a town one. Also he's avoiding the subject of his opinion on Osie, stating that his opinion doesn't matter since Osie is dead... then refusing to say more on the subject. His reaction is pretty textbook scum in my book and I don't really see a reason not to lynch a scum right now instead of basically shooting randomly into the PoE and hoping we get lucky.
@Tom: Vaimes is pushing against the lynch of Vezok when he's the most obvious next lynch. Does scum!Vaimes do this?
@Chris: Do me a favor and find a better way to provoke reactions and movement than lying about your reads. That's thoroughly antitown and very unhelpful to those trying to analyze you.
Aside from that though... I'm continuing to not trust you since you went from hardtownreading Osie to fencesitting in one fell swoop.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So a couple of things. Calling it fencesitting is kind of silly. I lied about the strength of my read to impose my will on the game and in the course of that we lunched a member of the scum team and I successfully ate a shot last night. If Osi is indeed town I pretty much had the best day/night cycle I could have possibly hoped for when I entered the game, and for you not to be able to see that clearly is why I am suspicious of you. Like, I get that I kind of wave my own flag a bit and you've always found that distasteful so fair enough, but just removing name tag from the post for a second I replaced in went from a stagnate day to one full of motion that ended on us dunking scum. Now that shot being taken at me makes me feel pretty good about the Osi slot but yeah it was never as strong as stated mostly because I view the world of mafia through the prism of greys.
It is possible I am overthinking the game, but... I am starting to have some problems with the consensus of the game which is why I am mulling it over more in my head and looking over things with a more critical eye, although bleh sickness sucks. Vaimes for example gave an expkanation of going "oh Chris is here, time to let him do stuff" and... god I kind of believe him. On the one hand it could be appeal to ego but as Anak found out that's not as successful as some might assume LOL. I don't know either the scum team is just really dead which is possible or it's the opposite which is also possible. I don't remember enough of Vaimes' meta to guess his motives precisely here though. Scum always find a reason for something and if Vaimes is scum then he's well within the poe and maybe 1 or both of his remaining buddies are and the game is simple.
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So a couple of things. Calling it fencesitting is kind of silly. I lied about the strength of my read to impose my will on the game and in the course of that we lunched a member of the scum team and I successfully ate a shot last night. If Osi is indeed town I pretty much had the best day/night cycle I could have possibly hoped for when I entered the game, and for you not to be able to see that clearly is why I am suspicious of you. Like, I get that I kind of wave my own flag a bit and you've always found that distasteful so fair enough, but just removing name tag from the post for a second I replaced in went from a stagnate day to one full of motion that ended on us dunking scum. Now that shot being taken at me makes me feel pretty good about the Osi slot but yeah it was never as strong as stated mostly because I view the world of mafia through the prism of greys.
It is possible I am overthinking the game, but... I am starting to have some problems with the consensus of the game which is why I am mulling it over more in my head and looking over things with a more critical eye, although bleh sickness sucks. Vaimes for example gave an expkanation of going "oh Chris is here, time to let him do stuff" and... god I kind of believe him. On the one hand it could be appeal to ego but as Anak found out that's not as successful as some might assume LOL. I don't know either the scum team is just really dead which is possible or it's the opposite which is also possible. I don't remember enough of Vaimes' meta to guess his motives precisely here though. Scum always find a reason for something and if Vaimes is scum then he's well within the poe and maybe 1 or both of his remaining buddies are and the game is simple.
Let's dissect your post to see why I called it fencesitting.
Truth be told I have no real idea if Osi is actually town, now that the slot is dead no real reason to pretend anymore. I entered the thread and saw the state of the day and decided that I wasn't going to allow day to stagnate on a potential mislynch so I staked my claim and decided to have a big adventure. And an adventure we had. I liked a lot of things from Osi but I have liked a lot of things from most of the playerbase today. I wasn't nearly as confident about Osi being deadset town as I let on but it gave town nothing to just roll with it and not force some action. Movement is always pro town, it makes people take stances.
Still think Osi is town and everything I read from GJ was imo within his town sphere, but wouldn't be horrified to learn that read was wrong.
As for why I do townread Osi though, the fight in the dog argument pretty much. Even when down to their last breath day 2 just kept fighting and kept fighting for someone who supposedly didn't care to be in the game. It'd be a super uncommon trait for scum to act that way in such a fashion.
Lynching a RBer who claimed AFTER a JK is always a really bad move, especially his RB targets add up from a town mindset. Maybe he's scum RB, but it's just such an unforced error on not a sure bet guys.
When I read your post, I see a few things here. I see you backtracking on your townread of Osie, maintaining your townread but admitting that GJ could have fooled you, then giving a reason that Osie could be town. The problem I have with it is the intent it seems to imply: that no matter what his flip is, your bases are covered. If he's town, you can say you successfully caught him because of the dog argument. If he's scum then you were never townreading him and GJ completely fooled you. You're even trying to turn this into credit for lynching Anak. I refuse to give that to you. You energized the game a bit, sure. I do not for a second believe you did it for that reason.
I don't mind pride. If it helps you solve, then go for it. But know that some of that is stuff that scum do, like taking credit for a scum lynch. I actually wasn't scumreading you until now. I just wasn't townreading you like you seemed to think I was supposed to. You were still in the PoE. You may have been leaning, like, slightly in the scum category.
But you're pretty scum now. So.
It also doesn't make much sense to me that you claim to have been shot, but aren't scumreading any of the others who claim they also prevented the kill. You might be scumreading Vez but don't wanna lynch him because mechanics. (Which I disagree with)
You also never answered my question about Vaimes. You said a lot, but nothing of it was an answer to my question.
Let me know if you think either of these aren't true:
Vezok is the current concensous for the lynch.
After Vezok, Vaimes is the next most likely lynch given peoples reads.
If both of these are true, then the question is:
Why does scum!Vaimes push away from a Vezok lynch?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I lied about the strength of my read to impose my will on the game and in the course of that we lunched a member of the scum team and I successfully ate a shot last night.
... Well if you put it that way, it's totally fine?
I lied about the strength of my read to impose my will on the game and in the course of that we lunched a member of the scum team and I successfully ate a shot last night.
... Well if you put it that way, it's totally fine?
How is this town behavior?
From your tone I assume you believe I'm fence sitting as well. Is that correct?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@HR because KJ seems to know my flavor and scum having that knowledge would be weird. Also he was super townie day 1.
He wasn't even slightly townie Day 1! He hung back and asked a bunch of questions to people without really committing to anything. That's quintessentially a mafia play.
In fairness I have like a 101 fever still you call it fencesitting I call it my brain frying.
BTW good luck EVER lynching me. I will fillet you and make you remember why they gave me all those awards. Seriously I openly invite you to vote me any day this game.
Anyway yes I do not so easily fall into meta traps like setup gaming I know how terrible. Oh man all this power SOMEONE MUST BE LYING dun dun dun and sure maybe it is vezok but that's just a strange play from a scum blocker.
Also it is town behavior because it got town q good result. Now if my instincts are off on Osi are off then it at least becomes a conversation but if I come in, save a town and down a scum and you dont see the town in that... guess I will say it another way to be fair, nothing wrong with good communication.
Hm. Vezok is one of the top candidates as is vaimes, yes. My point is scum when cornered will do all sorts of things to appear towny but I am also not feeling overly scummy vibes from either. I caveat with I haven't played eith vaimes in awhile because... well it is true. I don't tend to make too many sweeping statements.
Like if you want to try to lynch me you are mooore than welcome to try. I always do my best work when I play Under Pressure by Queen
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Also just to clear it up: if Osi is scum that's an L for me. Like I am willing to assume I have lost done of my flair for language due to illness and i rambled a bit too much. Strength of conviction vs allignment belief here. Conviction wasn't as strong but still there
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KJ: "Vezok is not answering my question and saying that osie reads are irrelevant"
Vezok: "Tried to lynch osie slot all of day 2, blcoked osie slot during night 2 which might have prevented a kill, wanted to lynch osie slot today and only compromised, because sir chris is so pushy and vezok doesn't have the equity to go against him."
KJ: "Vezok is obviously keeping the read for himself because he is scum. "
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@HR because KJ seems to know my flavor and scum having that knowledge would be weird. Also he was super townie day 1.
He wasn't even slightly townie Day 1! He hung back and asked a bunch of questions to people without really committing to anything. That's quintessentially a mafia play.
Yes.
Ok. I'm not asking if you think I'm scum. I'm asking if you specifically think I'm fence sitting. If so, explain that read.
I've just been through your ISO. I have some questions.
Since some of them are just "How do you feel about Player X", a t/s list would help with that.
Did you ever reread the Gambit and form an opinion of it?
I don't think I saw a bunch on the perceived setup as it stands today. With regards to Rodemy/Vezok/Chris/(Last whisper) What's real. What's not?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
In fairness I have like a 101 fever still you call it fencesitting I call it my brain frying.
BTW good luck EVER lynching me. I will fillet you and make you remember why they gave me all those awards. Seriously I openly invite you to vote me any day this game.
Anyway yes I do not so easily fall into meta traps like setup gaming I know how terrible. Oh man all this power SOMEONE MUST BE LYING dun dun dun and sure maybe it is vezok but that's just a strange play from a scum blocker.
Also it is town behavior because it got town q good result. Now if my instincts are off on Osi are off then it at least becomes a conversation but if I come in, save a town and down a scum and you dont see the town in that... guess I will say it another way to be fair, nothing wrong with good communication.
Hm. Vezok is one of the top candidates as is vaimes, yes. My point is scum when cornered will do all sorts of things to appear towny but I am also not feeling overly scummy vibes from either. I caveat with I haven't played eith vaimes in awhile because... well it is true. I don't tend to make too many sweeping statements.
Like if you want to try to lynch me you are mooore than welcome to try. I always do my best work when I play Under Pressure by Queen
I'll look into your slot in more detail overnight. If you'll be lynched it won't be today, obviously.
Just because the result was good for town doesn't mean that's why you were doing it. That's my point.
And with regards to Vaimes I'm sure you noticed that I'm trying to get dinner sort of commitment it if you. You're resisting there.
And feel better. I look forward to dancing with you at full strength later.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KJ: "Vezok is not answering my question and saying that osie reads are irrelevant"
Vezok: "Tried to lynch osie slot all of day 2, blcoked osie slot during night 2 which might have prevented a kill, wanted to lynch osie slot today and only compromised, because sir chris is so pushy and vezok doesn't have the equity to go against him."
KJ: "Vezok is obviously keeping the read for himself because he is scum. "
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm happy to act on the Vez has to be dealt with by scum plan but it sure doesn't change my opinion that he's scum. More Tubba pressure please. I want this because I've been wrong about everything and I went hard on Tubba being town.
@Chris, what do you think about starting a wagon on Vaimes? After that last "Why aren't we lynching LnGrrrR waaahhhh" comment I have no problem jumping there.
Tubba is fine too, but at this point I am not sure how much info his death will give.
If Osie flips scum with a crazy good role, or people keep dying around Chris, it might be time to revisit the slot. As is, everything that can be confirmed about the slot has been. He did come in, he did energize town and he did dunk scum. I see KJ’s point, but I don’t think it’s necessary to resolve it now.
Feel the same about Vez, in a way. If he’s lying about his role, it should become obvious? Granted my mechanical analysis is weak and just feels like wine, but I feel like his timing in the flurry of claims is “too” obvious.
As for why scumVaimes would push against a townVezok lynch, most likely for town points and there’s no reason he couldn’t flip onto Vez later in the day. His votes have moved around a lot, so it doesn’t mean much to me.
I don’t see the fence sitting Highroller is referring to with KJ. With regards to “fence sitting”, I don’t find it inherently scummy, imperfect information should naturally lead to that sort of viewpoint until things firm up. It’s more about what a player does with it, what they try and push.
I’d prefer LnnGgrr or Vaimes over Vez, in that order.
@Chris, what do you think about starting a wagon on Vaimes? After that last "Why aren't we lynching LnGrrrR waaahhhh" comment I have no problem jumping there.
Tubba is fine too, but at this point I am not sure how much info his death will give.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
If Osie flips scum with a crazy good role, or people keep dying around Chris, it might be time to revisit the slot. As is, everything that can be confirmed about the slot has been. He did come in, he did energize town and he did dunk scum. I see KJ’s point, but I don’t think it’s necessary to resolve it now.
Feel the same about Vez, in a way. If he’s lying about his role, it should become obvious? Granted my mechanical analysis is weak and just feels like wine, but I feel like his timing in the flurry of claims is “too” obvious.
As for why scumVaimes would push against a townVezok lynch, most likely for town points and there’s no reason he couldn’t flip onto Vez later in the day. His votes have moved around a lot, so it doesn’t mean much to me.
I don’t see the fence sitting Highroller is referring to with KJ. With regards to “fence sitting”, I don’t find it inherently scummy, imperfect information should naturally lead to that sort of viewpoint until things firm up. It’s more about what a player does with it, what they try and push.
I’d prefer LnnGgrr or Vaimes over Vez, in that order.
You're missing the point re: Vez and Vaimes. If a wagon dissapates on Vezok at current, he's the next target. scum!Vaimes would know that. Why would he advocate for that? That could kill him.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
If Osie flips scum with a crazy good role, or people keep dying around Chris, it might be time to revisit the slot. As is, everything that can be confirmed about the slot has been. He did come in, he did energize town and he did dunk scum. I see KJ’s point, but I don’t think it’s necessary to resolve it now.
Feel the same about Vez, in a way. If he’s lying about his role, it should become obvious? Granted my mechanical analysis is weak and just feels like wine, but I feel like his timing in the flurry of claims is “too” obvious.
As for why scumVaimes would push against a townVezok lynch, most likely for town points and there’s no reason he couldn’t flip onto Vez later in the day. His votes have moved around a lot, so it doesn’t mean much to me.
I don’t see the fence sitting Highroller is referring to with KJ. With regards to “fence sitting”, I don’t find it inherently scummy, imperfect information should naturally lead to that sort of viewpoint until things firm up. It’s more about what a player does with it, what they try and push.
I’d prefer LnnGgrr or Vaimes over Vez, in that order.
You're missing the point re: Vez and Vaimes. If a wagon dissapates on Vezok at current, he's the next target. scum!Vaimes would know that. Why would he advocate for that? That could kill him.
I think it’s debatable that Vaimes is next in line. Im holding 2-3 votes with speculation from others. I see what you’re saying, I just don’t know how much AI I’d give it.
Unrelated, but why is being drunk, or pretending to be drunk, and posting in a ridiculous manner a thing that is condoned on this site?
Like, maybe I have a huge problem with this because Vecna_Reborn did this and proceeded to totally ruin my game, but still, why do people think this is cool here? We're all past the age of 14, right?
Antispew means reducing the amount of info scum give out the town. Like me and GJ in Secret Agent where we tried to post nothing of value after we were discovered or wifom.
w/w is wolf/wolf or scum/scum.
RVS is the Random Voting Stage where everyone votes at random in the beginning of the game.
Pocket refers to a scum player trying to or succeeding in convincing a town player that they are town. Usually done be mimicking something the town person believes could only come from town and the scum using this info to fool them.
Barn comes from who knows where and refers to agreeing with someone's opinions. For example, I think X is scum because of Y and Z, Next player quotes my post and says /barn.
Thank you very much.
Is mindmeld when someone posts exactly what you were thinking prior to you posting it, or is it when someone posts it afterward? Or is there no distinction as to time?
I actively was not expecting to be lynched that game in the way that it happened.
But it became clear that you would be lynched, and you eventually acquiesced that you would be.
In both of these games, you were the obvious lynch, and in both of these cases, a similar pattern of behavior is being demonstrated.
But since I'm in a game with over 2000 posts that I don't really want to spend the time, effort, and likely money that I would have to do so to reread in its entirety,
Dude, c'mon man. I have spent the time and the effort to reread this thread on an extraordinarily busy and sleep-deprived week to get caught up. So I don't know how you can point blank say, "I am not going to even bother to put any effort in this game, please read this game for me and summarize the game for me, I'm not actually going to go through and read the game," and expect sympathy from me.
Like, I know it sucks to replace in to a 2000 post game and be the one that already has the bandwagon on him and is very likely to be the lynch that day, and be like, "Here are your cards, play them." But you're either a mafia who isn't interested in defending himself, or a town that isn't interested in defending himself, and either way, you're basically guaranteeing you're going to be lynched to day. And I don't disagree with it, because I genuinely believe you're osieorb as mafia who's about to be killed. I just would rather you have put up a fight or something.
Vote osieorb
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Anyway, having read through the thread, my thoughts:
Regarding Tau: No idea. I have no idea what he was thinking. No clue what the story was with the gambit. No idea what his deal was with regards to several of his votes, or his proclamations of innocence/mafia.
That said, I'm not sure how people are going to argue that Tau's gambit makes him mafia. Like, I understand my own bias, given I am replacing him, but explain Tau being mafia and coming up with all that to me.
Regarding EtR: since I wasn't PMed EtR's role PM, which is in my experience how masons normally work, I'm not going to assume he's town. That said, I have no idea why anyone believed that EtR posted 4 mafia in that post.
Honestly, that entire gambit is something I need to reread. Everything about it from every direction is just baffling.
Regarding Day 1:
1. There was absolutely no reason for people to vote LastWhisper, let alone put 6 votes on him that quickly. I'm not sure if it was just because Tau voted for him and then everyone piled on, or what. There was zero reason to vote for him. I actually wrote in my notes as I was reading, "How did LastWhisper get 6 votes that quick? Why are we not lynching one of {Reaverb Tau, Rumanshi, Rodemy, Grapefruit21, Killjoy, KamikazeArchon}?"
2. There was absolutely no reason for anyone to vote Rhand. I have no idea why Rhand was voted over KamikazeArchon or EtR. Was it that EtR voted and everyone just piled on, or was it to prevent a KamikazeArchon lynch?
Not to mention it seems pretty obvious that LastWhisper was nightkilled to try to cover for someone on the Rhandwagon. So that marks the following as people we need to scrutinize: EtR, D_V, Vaimes, KamikazeArchon, Tubba Fett, Vezokpiraka, Rodemy, tomsloger
3. Why do people think that Killjoy is town?
4. Prior to the whole osieorb thing, the highest people on my suspicion list were KamikazeArchon, Anak/M1ndreaver, and Killjoy, in that order.
KamikazeArchon just screams mafia. Here's a post in particular I'd like the town to look at:
@KJ: GB Rodemy was tentative, almost fearful. And like I said, the vote is for #57. Feels forced.
What are you talking about? Rodemy was lynched in that game because he was too aggressive and committed to a line of attack against me before he thought it through, which resulted in him getting caught in a lie. ”Tentative, almost fearful” is the furthest thing from his performance that game.
Our lynch should be either KamikazeArchon or osieorb. I'm fine with either one.
You claim that Kami "screams mafia" here. Why was Osie a better vote in that case? Your vote on Osie seems to be due to his not wanting to play, but I'm not sure why you think that's more mafia than Kami who 'screams' it. Clarify that for me.
Why were you including me in the Last wagon? My vote was RVS.
How is it obvious that a flipped BG was specifically nightkilled? I just see a BG flip which mechanically could be Last sucessfully protecting someone.
Let's be real here: I've already put Anak in my top three most suspicious people prior to the GJ meltdown/osieorb debacle. Not sure where I'd rank him now, but the answer's pretty high.
But I don't trust this sudden bandwagon at all, and I don't like Sir Chris's I-will-lynch-anyone-else-including-myself to save osieorb. Sir Chris is definitely working an angle, but I don't know what it is.
Vote stands for right now.
What made you distrust the Anak wagon at this point?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Kj, if Tubba is the lynch, anybody on it could claim "Oh hey, Tubba was pretty obviously scum, or at least not good town". I think Vaimes has had more interactions and his flip would provide more info.
Also, Vaimes is obviously going to push to me or Tubba if Vezok isn't the lynch, knowing that no one is going to stand up for us, especially in a situation where we are a few days from deadline and need to start consolidating wagons.
I've got vez as my most likely scum rn between claim, poe, and latter part of today. But its probably still valid to let him act tonight.
Don't like the way chris is defending him (sure its prolly true but it's all wifom and it ignores a lot) but there's zero part of me that what's to think about chris before the osi flip.
Highroller has been the scummiest today but... possibly not in a way thats scummy for highroller specifically.
I dont actually know how to read him. 2 games together and I was scum in 1 and copped him night 1 in the other.
Lngrr stands out as having been the towniest of my poe today. Not a townread, but wouldnt lynch today.
Rod, grape, and (more or less) kj/re my current towncore. Have some thoughts on latter 2 but not going into it rn
Kami still not mafia
So
Vaimes or tubba I guess?
They're both people i tend to read well, and my instinct is theyll make their alignment clear to me eventually.
But, like, its day 3 and they haven't.
Hey Bur? Can we get a link on the first page to the end of Day 1, Day 2, Day 3, etc.?
Define fence sitting for me? It's beginning to sound like we're not talking about the same thing.
I'm probably using the term incorrectly, you're right.
What I'm trying to say is that your playstyle is - and I think this is pretty obviously a mafia playstyle - to hang back and try to snipe at people, but to do so in the form of asking questions in order to skirt under the radar. You read as someone trying hard to appear town.
"KJ is just hanging back and asked a bunch of questions." Lol. That's just not true.
He said in his post in which he proceeded to hang back and ask a bunch of questions.
You claim that Kami "screams mafia" here. Why was Osie a better vote in that case? Your vote on Osie seems to be due to his not wanting to play, but I'm not sure why you think that's more mafia than Kami who 'screams' it. Clarify that for me.
Because people didn't seem interested in voting KA, most people were voting Osie, and osie was behaving in a manner that I believed was basically what a person who replaced into a mafia position about to be lynched would behave, and also behaving in a manner similar to the way he behaved in Scum Love the King mafia, in which he was mafia and eventually a certain lynch. Then there was the increasing manner of desperate attacks against me by osie, which I believe was just all the more osie outing himself that he's mafia.
Why were you including me in the Last wagon?
You voted for Last.
My vote was RVS.
I don't know what RVS means.
How is it obvious that a flipped BG was specifically nightkilled? I just see a BG flip which mechanically could be Last sucessfully protecting someone.
Sure, a 1/15 chance is a chance, but there would just be too much utility in nightkilling LastWhisper and having him publicly flip town after the Tau gambit and the ridiculous Rhand lynch.
What made you distrust the Anak wagon at this point?
Seriously? It was like the third or fourth bandwagon that day, and it just suddenly grew from people jumping off the previous bandwagon to join that one. Not exactly a lot of conviction going on in that wagon. You're going to pretend Anak wasn't bussed?
Also @HR: Why do you think everyone needs to claim RIGHT NOW? We're not near that point yet.
The hell are you talking about?
We have a guy claiming that he killed the guy night 1 but he's town, which means either he's lying, or someone prevented the mafia kill somehow.
We have no kills night 3, which means something happened to the night kill attempt(s).
By knowing all the roles, we can isolate all possible explanations and work from there. We can solve what happened those two nights, which would point us toward the mafia. It is absolutely counterproductive for people to hold back role information today when we have so much utility for it.
Regarding a t/s list: Nah, screw that. t/s lists are one of the weirdest things you guys do on this site, and I have no idea why you all love them so much. They are always wrong. Always. And yet you make them all the time, including on DAY ONE. Why the hell would you do that? If there were like 5 people left in the game, sure, fine, in an endgame scenario that makes perfect sense, but when there are 12 people left? To say nothing of 16? Absurdity.
It's completely NAI for Highroller to want claims. That's just his playstyle.
That said, HR: "We have a guy claiming that he killed the guy night 1 but he's town, which means either he's lying, or someone prevented the mafia kill somehow." - You're omitting the crossfire possibility.
@Chris, what do you think about starting a wagon on Vaimes? After that last "Why aren't we lynching LnGrrrR waaahhhh" comment I have no problem jumping there.
Tubba is fine too, but at this point I am not sure how much info his death will give.
Why do you need Sir Chris’ approval/blessing here? If YOU think Vaimes is scum why not try persuading others to vote there yourself?
I’m biased but this post just stinks (in a scumspicious sense, no insults).
Killjoy looks to be the only person using their brain on this page. It's ludicrous to suggest that I'm somehow not lined up to be lynched after, or even before, vezok.
LnGR, exactly what kind of information are you planning on extracting from my flip? And why are you trying to rally Tubba onto me if you're fine with voting him too?
What I'm trying to say is that your playstyle is - and I think this is pretty obviously a mafia playstyle - to hang back and try to snipe at people, but to do so in the form of asking questions in order to skirt under the radar. You read as someone trying hard to appear town.
First: Fencesitting is when your stance on something/someone is not really taking a stance. Like I described with Chris, where regardless of Osie's flip he can come out not looking too bad. It's derived from the metaphor of sitting on the proverbial fence between two yards, each yard representing committing to a stance.
Secondly... Like, have you read my posts? I don't see how you can draw that conclusion from reading my posts. I was asking questions, sure. The intent was to get into people's heads. I was trying to solve people's alignments. I don't understand where you're getting that idea.
Because people didn't seem interested in voting KA, most people were voting Osie, and osie was behaving in a manner that I believed was basically what a person who replaced into a mafia position about to be lynched would behave, and also behaving in a manner similar to the way he behaved in Scum Love the King mafia, in which he was mafia and eventually a certain lynch. Then there was the increasing manner of desperate attacks against me by osie, which I believe was just all the more osie outing himself that he's mafia.
Why does it matter how much interest there was in the wagon?
I vaguely recall the rest of this being true? Osie was kinda on you IIRC.
You've played a recent game, right? The first stretch of game is people voting either randomly or jokingly. It's to help like... unwind and get into the game, and give people something to react to. I voted for Last this game jokingly. I don't think I ever actually thought he was scum.
How is it obvious that a flipped BG was specifically nightkilled? I just see a BG flip which mechanically could be Last sucessfully protecting someone.
Sure, a 1/15 chance is a chance, but there would just be too much utility in nightkilling LastWhisper and having him publicly flip town after the Tau gambit and the ridiculous Rhand lynch.
Ah, so you're saying the scum killed Last to create scum equity on the people on his wagon? I doubt that. Trying to assert that scum killed Last to create scum equity on the people on his wagon is wine. And "You helped lynch town, therefore you might not be" is just a weak argument.
On a more positive note... I'm getting the impression from this paragraph here that perhaps you actually just don't know who the scum killed, or why. So, you're potentially towntelling here.
What made you distrust the Anak wagon at this point?
Seriously? It was like the third or fourth bandwagon that day, and it just suddenly grew from people jumping off the previous bandwagon to join that one. Not exactly a lot of conviction going on in that wagon. You're going to pretend Anak wasn't bussed?
I'm not pretending anything. My point is you claimed you distrusted a scum wagon, and I wanted to know why.
Also @HR: Why do you think everyone needs to claim RIGHT NOW? We're not near that point yet.
The hell are you talking about?
We have a guy claiming that he killed the guy night 1 but he's town, which means either he's lying, or someone prevented the mafia kill somehow.
We have no kills night 3, which means something happened to the night kill attempt(s).
By knowing all the roles, we can isolate all possible explanations and work from there. We can solve what happened those two nights, which would point us toward the mafia. It is absolutely counterproductive for people to hold back role information today when we have so much utility for it.
But it also gives scum ALL the info. They already have the most info about the setup, knowing multiple roles. Claiming all our roles gives them an advantage.
Regarding a t/s list: Nah, screw that. t/s lists are one of the weirdest things you guys do on this site, and I have no idea why you all love them so much. They are always wrong. Always. And yet you make them all the time, including on DAY ONE. Why the hell would you do that? If there were like 5 people left in the game, sure, fine, in an endgame scenario that makes perfect sense, but when there are 12 people left? To say nothing of 16? Absurdity.
They serve to summarize and consolidate people's reads. And scum can potentially get caught from it. Sometimes scum awkwardly put their buddies as town, or throw them as null-town with weak reasons.
Moreover, it helps others read you. It's kind of a "at this moment, here's my thinking on where the game is". It's useful to other people.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm assuming people are fine with Kami shooting LnGR again; I'm surprised no one tried to rally for vigshot votes.
let me be clear: I want lngr executed by vote. I am neither going to confirm nor deny whether I have shots left, and neither going to confirm nor deny whom I might target toNight.
I'm assuming people are fine with Kami shooting LnGR again; I'm surprised no one tried to rally for vigshot votes.
let me be clear: I want lngr executed by vote. I am neither going to confirm nor deny whether I have shots left, and neither going to confirm nor deny whom I might target toNight.
You already used 2? Holy ***** if you have more then there is no way you are a regular vig.
So SK it is.
vote kami
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I'm assuming people are fine with Kami shooting LnGR again; I'm surprised no one tried to rally for vigshot votes.
let me be clear: I want lngr executed by vote. I am neither going to confirm nor deny whether I have shots left, and neither going to confirm nor deny whom I might target toNight.
You already used 2? Holy ***** if you have more then there is no way you are a regular vig.
So SK it is.
vote kami
Just back away from the hamster wheel and everything will be alright...
I won’t dispute your claim, but this seems really flimsy to build a case on. If Kami has more shots it should be apparent soon and then we can start mulling the SK possibility.
I'm assuming people are fine with Kami shooting LnGR again; I'm surprised no one tried to rally for vigshot votes.
let me be clear: I want lngr executed by vote. I am neither going to confirm nor deny whether I have shots left, and neither going to confirm nor deny whom I might target toNight.
You already used 2? Holy ***** if you have more then there is no way you are a regular vig.
So SK it is.
vote kami
Just back away from the hamster wheel and everything will be alright...
I won’t dispute your claim, but this seems really flimsy to build a case on. If Kami has more shots it should be apparent soon and then we can start mulling the SK possibility.
I don’t want it to be apparent soon, I want him dead now so we don’t lose anymore town. More town dead means we are Loooooosssiiing.
Your mindset is not townie.
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I mean an SK would explain all this protection LOL
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I'm assuming people are fine with Kami shooting LnGR again; I'm surprised no one tried to rally for vigshot votes.
let me be clear: I want lngr executed by vote. I am neither going to confirm nor deny whether I have shots left, and neither going to confirm nor deny whom I might target toNight.
You already used 2? Holy ***** if you have more then there is no way you are a regular vig.
So SK it is.
vote kami
Maybe I have more shots. Maybe I don't. I want mafia to keep guessing.
We have one night death in two periods. If I were an SK, I could have nodded along from the sidelines all day. Why, in that world, would I come in here and claim vig?
I'm assuming people are fine with Kami shooting LnGR again; I'm surprised no one tried to rally for vigshot votes.
let me be clear: I want lngr executed by vote. I am neither going to confirm nor deny whether I have shots left, and neither going to confirm nor deny whom I might target toNight.
You already used 2? Holy ***** if you have more then there is no way you are a regular vig.
So SK it is.
vote kami
Just back away from the hamster wheel and everything will be alright...
I won’t dispute your claim, but this seems really flimsy to build a case on. If Kami has more shots it should be apparent soon and then we can start mulling the SK possibility.
I don’t want it to be apparent soon, I want him dead now so we don’t lose anymore town. More town dead means we are Loooooosssiiing.
Your mindset is not townie.
I’m sorry I don’t find your tinfoil theory on Kami compelling enough to slot them scum. I’m listening if you have anything to add, but if it’s just conjecture on shots that may or may not exist then it’s gonna be a no from me dawg.
@Vaimes I work in a grocery store that has a Starbucks that also has no Wifi. It's weird. Soon I would guess.
Re: Suboptimal play: I mean I guess, but we don't even know if scum don't have some ability to play around that (with BG, apperent BP, appearent 1shot JK, and apperent RB) I would put more stock in worlds WITH a strongman/whatever than without right now. THAT of course assume all 4 of those claims are town. Not gonna bother gaming the setup though because I'm more likely gonna be wrong.
Aside from that, Vezok's reaction to being lynched isn't a town one. Also he's avoiding the subject of his opinion on Osie, stating that his opinion doesn't matter since Osie is dead... then refusing to say more on the subject. His reaction is pretty textbook scum in my book and I don't really see a reason not to lynch a scum right now instead of basically shooting randomly into the PoE and hoping we get lucky.
@Tom: Vaimes is pushing against the lynch of Vezok when he's the most obvious next lynch. Does scum!Vaimes do this?
@Chris: Do me a favor and find a better way to provoke reactions and movement than lying about your reads. That's thoroughly antitown and very unhelpful to those trying to analyze you.
Aside from that though... I'm continuing to not trust you since you went from hardtownreading Osie to fencesitting in one fell swoop.
What do YOU think of the Vez wagon?
It is possible I am overthinking the game, but... I am starting to have some problems with the consensus of the game which is why I am mulling it over more in my head and looking over things with a more critical eye, although bleh sickness sucks. Vaimes for example gave an expkanation of going "oh Chris is here, time to let him do stuff" and... god I kind of believe him. On the one hand it could be appeal to ego but as Anak found out that's not as successful as some might assume LOL. I don't know either the scum team is just really dead which is possible or it's the opposite which is also possible. I don't remember enough of Vaimes' meta to guess his motives precisely here though. Scum always find a reason for something and if Vaimes is scum then he's well within the poe and maybe 1 or both of his remaining buddies are and the game is simple.
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Let's dissect your post to see why I called it fencesitting.
When I read your post, I see a few things here. I see you backtracking on your townread of Osie, maintaining your townread but admitting that GJ could have fooled you, then giving a reason that Osie could be town. The problem I have with it is the intent it seems to imply: that no matter what his flip is, your bases are covered. If he's town, you can say you successfully caught him because of the dog argument. If he's scum then you were never townreading him and GJ completely fooled you. You're even trying to turn this into credit for lynching Anak. I refuse to give that to you. You energized the game a bit, sure. I do not for a second believe you did it for that reason.
I don't mind pride. If it helps you solve, then go for it. But know that some of that is stuff that scum do, like taking credit for a scum lynch. I actually wasn't scumreading you until now. I just wasn't townreading you like you seemed to think I was supposed to. You were still in the PoE. You may have been leaning, like, slightly in the scum category.
But you're pretty scum now. So.
It also doesn't make much sense to me that you claim to have been shot, but aren't scumreading any of the others who claim they also prevented the kill. You might be scumreading Vez but don't wanna lynch him because mechanics. (Which I disagree with)
You also never answered my question about Vaimes. You said a lot, but nothing of it was an answer to my question.
Let me know if you think either of these aren't true:
Vezok is the current concensous for the lynch.
After Vezok, Vaimes is the next most likely lynch given peoples reads.
If both of these are true, then the question is:
Why does scum!Vaimes push away from a Vezok lynch?
How is this town behavior?
BTW good luck EVER lynching me. I will fillet you and make you remember why they gave me all those awards. Seriously I openly invite you to vote me any day this game.
Anyway yes I do not so easily fall into meta traps like setup gaming I know how terrible. Oh man all this power SOMEONE MUST BE LYING dun dun dun and sure maybe it is vezok but that's just a strange play from a scum blocker.
Also it is town behavior because it got town q good result. Now if my instincts are off on Osi are off then it at least becomes a conversation but if I come in, save a town and down a scum and you dont see the town in that... guess I will say it another way to be fair, nothing wrong with good communication.
Hm. Vezok is one of the top candidates as is vaimes, yes. My point is scum when cornered will do all sorts of things to appear towny but I am also not feeling overly scummy vibes from either. I caveat with I haven't played eith vaimes in awhile because... well it is true. I don't tend to make too many sweeping statements.
Like if you want to try to lynch me you are mooore than welcome to try. I always do my best work when I play Under Pressure by Queen
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Vezok: "Tried to lynch osie slot all of day 2, blcoked osie slot during night 2 which might have prevented a kill, wanted to lynch osie slot today and only compromised, because sir chris is so pushy and vezok doesn't have the equity to go against him."
KJ: "Vezok is obviously keeping the read for himself because he is scum. "
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I've just been through your ISO. I have some questions.
Since some of them are just "How do you feel about Player X", a t/s list would help with that.
Did you ever reread the Gambit and form an opinion of it?
I don't think I saw a bunch on the perceived setup as it stands today. With regards to Rodemy/Vezok/Chris/(Last whisper) What's real. What's not?
Just because the result was good for town doesn't mean that's why you were doing it. That's my point.
And with regards to Vaimes I'm sure you noticed that I'm trying to get dinner sort of commitment it if you. You're resisting there.
And feel better. I look forward to dancing with you at full strength later.
Why did it take this long?
Also what is the point of this post?
I don't know what that means.
A t/s list is a list of players in some kind of alignment based order preferably with reasons.
You made like a lynch list and a top three scum but I'd like a full one with explanations please.
I'm happy to act on the Vez has to be dealt with by scum plan but it sure doesn't change my opinion that he's scum. More Tubba pressure please. I want this because I've been wrong about everything and I went hard on Tubba being town.
Tubba is fine too, but at this point I am not sure how much info his death will give.
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Feel the same about Vez, in a way. If he’s lying about his role, it should become obvious? Granted my mechanical analysis is weak and just feels like wine, but I feel like his timing in the flurry of claims is “too” obvious.
As for why scumVaimes would push against a townVezok lynch, most likely for town points and there’s no reason he couldn’t flip onto Vez later in the day. His votes have moved around a lot, so it doesn’t mean much to me.
I don’t see the fence sitting Highroller is referring to with KJ. With regards to “fence sitting”, I don’t find it inherently scummy, imperfect information should naturally lead to that sort of viewpoint until things firm up. It’s more about what a player does with it, what they try and push.
I’d prefer LnnGgrr or Vaimes over Vez, in that order.
"How much info his death would give"?
I think it’s debatable that Vaimes is next in line. Im holding 2-3 votes with speculation from others. I see what you’re saying, I just don’t know how much AI I’d give it.
"KJ is just hanging back and asked a bunch of questions." Lol. That's just not true.
Why were you including me in the Last wagon? My vote was RVS.
How is it obvious that a flipped BG was specifically nightkilled? I just see a BG flip which mechanically could be Last sucessfully protecting someone.
What made you distrust the Anak wagon at this point?
Tubba: He's being pretty widely scumread. Maybe LnGrrR could be next but so could Vaimes. It's a risk.
Also, Vaimes is obviously going to push to me or Tubba if Vezok isn't the lynch, knowing that no one is going to stand up for us, especially in a situation where we are a few days from deadline and need to start consolidating wagons.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I've got vez as my most likely scum rn between claim, poe, and latter part of today. But its probably still valid to let him act tonight.
Don't like the way chris is defending him (sure its prolly true but it's all wifom and it ignores a lot) but there's zero part of me that what's to think about chris before the osi flip.
Highroller has been the scummiest today but... possibly not in a way thats scummy for highroller specifically.
I dont actually know how to read him. 2 games together and I was scum in 1 and copped him night 1 in the other.
Lngrr stands out as having been the towniest of my poe today. Not a townread, but wouldnt lynch today.
Rod, grape, and (more or less) kj/re my current towncore. Have some thoughts on latter 2 but not going into it rn
Kami still not mafia
So
Vaimes or tubba I guess?
They're both people i tend to read well, and my instinct is theyll make their alignment clear to me eventually.
But, like, its day 3 and they haven't.
Maybe I'm overcomplicating too...
Idk I feel he’s been extremely underwhelming this game and idk how to compute that.
As for vezok, I feel like he could be a viable option today.
Him or grr. Let’s make a decision soon. I’m haveing a hard time keeping up
I'm probably using the term incorrectly, you're right.
What I'm trying to say is that your playstyle is - and I think this is pretty obviously a mafia playstyle - to hang back and try to snipe at people, but to do so in the form of asking questions in order to skirt under the radar. You read as someone trying hard to appear town.
He said in his post in which he proceeded to hang back and ask a bunch of questions.
Because people didn't seem interested in voting KA, most people were voting Osie, and osie was behaving in a manner that I believed was basically what a person who replaced into a mafia position about to be lynched would behave, and also behaving in a manner similar to the way he behaved in Scum Love the King mafia, in which he was mafia and eventually a certain lynch. Then there was the increasing manner of desperate attacks against me by osie, which I believe was just all the more osie outing himself that he's mafia.
You voted for Last.
I don't know what RVS means.
Sure, a 1/15 chance is a chance, but there would just be too much utility in nightkilling LastWhisper and having him publicly flip town after the Tau gambit and the ridiculous Rhand lynch.
Seriously? It was like the third or fourth bandwagon that day, and it just suddenly grew from people jumping off the previous bandwagon to join that one. Not exactly a lot of conviction going on in that wagon. You're going to pretend Anak wasn't bussed?
The hell are you talking about?
We have a guy claiming that he killed the guy night 1 but he's town, which means either he's lying, or someone prevented the mafia kill somehow.
We have no kills night 3, which means something happened to the night kill attempt(s).
By knowing all the roles, we can isolate all possible explanations and work from there. We can solve what happened those two nights, which would point us toward the mafia. It is absolutely counterproductive for people to hold back role information today when we have so much utility for it.
Regarding a t/s list: Nah, screw that. t/s lists are one of the weirdest things you guys do on this site, and I have no idea why you all love them so much. They are always wrong. Always. And yet you make them all the time, including on DAY ONE. Why the hell would you do that? If there were like 5 people left in the game, sure, fine, in an endgame scenario that makes perfect sense, but when there are 12 people left? To say nothing of 16? Absurdity.
That said, HR: "We have a guy claiming that he killed the guy night 1 but he's town, which means either he's lying, or someone prevented the mafia kill somehow." - You're omitting the crossfire possibility.
Why do you need Sir Chris’ approval/blessing here? If YOU think Vaimes is scum why not try persuading others to vote there yourself?
I’m biased but this post just stinks (in a scumspicious sense, no insults).
Tell you what Tubba, I will vote him if you do.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
LnGR, exactly what kind of information are you planning on extracting from my flip? And why are you trying to rally Tubba onto me if you're fine with voting him too?
Small + for Tubba for not sheeping onto me.
I'm assuming people are fine with Kami shooting LnGR again; I'm surprised no one tried to rally for vigshot votes.
First: Fencesitting is when your stance on something/someone is not really taking a stance. Like I described with Chris, where regardless of Osie's flip he can come out not looking too bad. It's derived from the metaphor of sitting on the proverbial fence between two yards, each yard representing committing to a stance.
Secondly... Like, have you read my posts? I don't see how you can draw that conclusion from reading my posts. I was asking questions, sure. The intent was to get into people's heads. I was trying to solve people's alignments. I don't understand where you're getting that idea.
What exactly is your definition of 'hanging back'? I've been engaging with people. I literally don't understand your argument.
Why does it matter how much interest there was in the wagon?
I vaguely recall the rest of this being true? Osie was kinda on you IIRC.
You've played a recent game, right? The first stretch of game is people voting either randomly or jokingly. It's to help like... unwind and get into the game, and give people something to react to. I voted for Last this game jokingly. I don't think I ever actually thought he was scum.
Ah, so you're saying the scum killed Last to create scum equity on the people on his wagon? I doubt that. Trying to assert that scum killed Last to create scum equity on the people on his wagon is wine. And "You helped lynch town, therefore you might not be" is just a weak argument.
On a more positive note... I'm getting the impression from this paragraph here that perhaps you actually just don't know who the scum killed, or why. So, you're potentially towntelling here.
I'm not pretending anything. My point is you claimed you distrusted a scum wagon, and I wanted to know why.
But it also gives scum ALL the info. They already have the most info about the setup, knowing multiple roles. Claiming all our roles gives them an advantage.
They serve to summarize and consolidate people's reads. And scum can potentially get caught from it. Sometimes scum awkwardly put their buddies as town, or throw them as null-town with weak reasons.
Moreover, it helps others read you. It's kind of a "at this moment, here's my thinking on where the game is". It's useful to other people.
This probably went without saying, but to double check, did D_V use that ability night 1?
You already used 2? Holy ***** if you have more then there is no way you are a regular vig.
So SK it is.
vote kami
Just back away from the hamster wheel and everything will be alright...
I won’t dispute your claim, but this seems really flimsy to build a case on. If Kami has more shots it should be apparent soon and then we can start mulling the SK possibility.
I don’t want it to be apparent soon, I want him dead now so we don’t lose anymore town. More town dead means we are Loooooosssiiing.
Your mindset is not townie.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Maybe I have more shots. Maybe I don't. I want mafia to keep guessing.
We have one night death in two periods. If I were an SK, I could have nodded along from the sidelines all day. Why, in that world, would I come in here and claim vig?
“Work is work, but family is for life. That’s what really matters to me.”
–Akshay Kumar
Vezokpiraka (4): Highroller, tomsloger, Killjoy, Vaimes
Tubba Fett (3): Sir Chris, LnGrrrR, Grapefruit21
LnGrrrR (2): Tubba Fett, KamikazeArchon
Vaimes (1): vezokpiraka
KamikazeArchon (1): Rodemy
Not Voting (1): RE1031
V/LA: -
With 12 alive, it’s 7 to lynch. Deadline is on April 5th, 10 PM GMT.
I’m sorry I don’t find your tinfoil theory on Kami compelling enough to slot them scum. I’m listening if you have anything to add, but if it’s just conjecture on shots that may or may not exist then it’s gonna be a no from me dawg.
unvote
vote vezok
unvote
Fine. But if another townie dies tonight I’m seriously keeping my vote on tubbaor kami until they die.
I’ll hammer vezok when everyone is ready.
Yeah, no. Vote KamikazeArchon.