i don't really know how to respond to that without going down a path we probably shouldn't
Good call.
@Rhand: :angry:
I didn’t know what else to answer :/
generally recommend just opening up his ISO and finding something semi-believable to have town read him for, over go that path
but since the door is open, he could still be a wolf who realizes they have little power, and therefore town also has little power, so it's not an absolute clear, though i understand having the thought
(realistically, if rhand is town here, and i sort of think he is for responding this way, wolves can look back at gj and see the same things he saw, so i don't care about mentioning it)
@Cheesecake, going to answer your question when I have more than a few minutes but wanted to get this out there first
You guys know Tom doesn't ACTUALLY think people are scummy, right? Like, it's a joke? When you read a response like, "Rhand is scum for voting his scummiest vote" (not a real quote, just an example), that isn't a real scumread.
It's baffling to me why people seem to be taking this shtick seriously and/or saying it is hard to read through.
@Cheesecake, going to answer your question when I have more than a few minutes but wanted to get this out there first
You guys know Tom doesn't ACTUALLY think people are scummy, right? Like, it's a joke? When you read a response like, "Rhand is scum for voting his scummiest vote" (not a real quote, just an example), that isn't a real scumread.
It's baffling to me why people seem to be taking this shtick seriously and/or saying it is hard to read through.
@Cheesecake, going to answer your question when I have more than a few minutes but wanted to get this out there first
You guys know Tom doesn't ACTUALLY think people are scummy, right? Like, it's a joke? When you read a response like, "Rhand is scum for voting his scummiest vote" (not a real quote, just an example), that isn't a real scumread.
It's baffling to me why people seem to be taking this shtick seriously and/or saying it is hard to read through.
the problem is when he gives "fake" scum reads it's difficult to differentiate between "real" scum reads
i've read through his iso multiple times and don't really have a clue what his actual thoughts are, which makes me think he's reasonably likely to be scum, as i think as town he'd do a better job of conveying that through the gimmick
Yeah weird. I had it open, then my kiddo got sick and I came back to this and figured it hadn't posted. Weird.
(Kiddo being sick is why I don't have time at the moment to go back through and point out specific posts.)
@Shadow, so do you think I am scum or not? The justification for your theoretical dayvig makes it sound like you think I am likely town but willing to shoot me for data.
I’m phoneposting so can’t go hunting for quotes now, but
@lngr: if tom is really conveying his thoughts well through the gimmick, what do you make of the back-and forth we had about his Cantrip/Shadow reaction?
Not the part about his gimmick, but just that.
I want to find everyone who cant understand me scummy, becauase i feel its pretty obvious. Like, you read posts and im pretty clearly townreading things. Its not that hard to look at votes for scumreads. And the bull***** "youre making yourself a distraction" line is, well, lacking. Maybe its ok from cheesecake if hes only seen my mash playstyle but any mtgsers saying that.... basically please show me a game where i wasnt a distraction by my very existence.
Idk i guess i just leave it to the folk that can read dont have any problem to interpret. Obviously its clear to me what im thinking lol.
Also everyone that has posted since i was last in thread and didnt vote rand is scum. Hes outed
Overarching, rhand is scum for falling into the trap of how [generic scum] interact with [nonspecific town they dont know what to do with]
It should surprise no one here i have a lot of experience with that. And his progression on me is straight up that as well as fake.
Cheesesteak scum for not just reading the 3 paragraphs i already did on this.
As for gj read. Not super into talking about it but if i fully understood it all its a read scum are more likely to make but less likely to vocalize when they do. So i can see you thinking its not a route wolves are likely to take but dont think its more than a percentage point or two and barely care about it
Overarching, rhand is scum for falling into the trap of how [generic scum] interact with [nonspecific town they dont know what to do with]
It should surprise no one here i have a lot of experience with that. And his progression on me is straight up that as well as fake.
Cheesesteak scum for not just reading the 3 paragraphs i already did on this.
As for gj read. Not super into talking about it but if i fully understood it all its a read scum are more likely to make but less likely to vocalize when they do. So i can see you thinking its not a route wolves are likely to take but dont think its more than a percentage point or two and barely care about it
You’re ignoring my whole thought progression to fit your narrative.
Overarching, rhand is scum for falling into the trap of how [generic scum] interact with [nonspecific town they dont know what to do with]
It should surprise no one here i have a lot of experience with that. And his progression on me is straight up that as well as fake.
Cheesesteak scum for not just reading the 3 paragraphs i already did on this.
As for gj read. Not super into talking about it but if i fully understood it all its a read scum are more likely to make but less likely to vocalize when they do. So i can see you thinking its not a route wolves are likely to take but dont think its more than a percentage point or two and barely care about it
It feels a lot like we are talking past each other; your 136 was reasons you think I’m scum, but the question I was asking was what were your specific thoughts on those four names I listed as town, not really “why do you think I’m scum?”
For reference (don’t really want to go quote it all):
I made that list
You voted me
I asked your issue with the list
You said you took issue with the timing of it
I said that seems like a vague reason to vote me
You said it’s not the reason
I said you sidestepped the initial question
You gave me reasons you thought I was scum 136
I posted my list
So like, I can understand the question getting lost in all of that, but that’s probably why you feel like I didn’t re-engage, and I feel like you didn’t answer my question.
OK. I read your #93 as guessing my motive for voting rather than a straight question. So I explained why I voted instead because it didn't have anything to do with whether I agreed with your reads or not.
Since it transpires you were genuninely asking me those questions and not actually adressing my vote, I'll answer: at the time, I don't think I would call any of them slam dunk town reads. Cheesecake was (and is) looking the best of them, but the others are pretty tenuous really - certainly nowhere close to calling the game easy. That's why I think you didn't genuninely consider them all strong town reads - you just listed them because other people were and you wanted to join in and get town points for making town reads. And if you are scum, you probably didn't list four townies - being able to slip a buddy into the list provides even more incentive to put some hard, burgeoning consensus town reads on record. Plus the more general "rule of threes".
Partly was when we had our little rambo off, I felt like it was townies bashing into each other. So cantrip/shadow/lngrr/ I have as townie (slightly hesitant on Eco). Other people I am town reading or null reading for different reasons.
I almost I feel like Azrael is wolfy, mostly because I feel like I am scraping the barrel to come up with 3 people that can be wolves. Still early though.
Lacking strong wolf reads right now. Light wolf reads on you/Highroller, slightly lighter on eco and rhand. But different meta than the quick and run I have gotten more accustom to. Moire used to just spitballing ideas, and interacting in almost real time. Trying to analyze posts after they have been dealt with for a while is tougher when other people have already commented on it.
All of Shadow, Cantrip, and LnGrrR being town is a big call. What are the key indicators in your mind that it's all a big town hoohah? Who would be the scum around the edges of it?
Also how come I get both a light town read and a light scum read?
I don't reeeally think Rhand is scum. "Openly talking about roles" is a potential thing if he thought it would nab him some wifom-y towncred, but now I'm more aware of it because I +town'd Lngr for it.
Meh.
Feels like tom decided Rhand is scum and is finding reasons for it on the fly.
It feels a lot like we are talking past each other; your 136 was reasons you think I’m scum, but the question I was asking was what were your specific thoughts on those four names I listed as town, not really “why do you think I’m scum?”
For reference (don’t really want to go quote it all):
I made that list
You voted me
I asked your issue with the list
You said you took issue with the timing of it
I said that seems like a vague reason to vote me
You said it’s not the reason
I said you sidestepped the initial question
You gave me reasons you thought I was scum 136
I posted my list
So like, I can understand the question getting lost in all of that, but that’s probably why you feel like I didn’t re-engage, and I feel like you didn’t answer my question.
OK. I read your #93 as guessing my motive for voting rather than a straight question. So I explained why I voted instead because it didn't have anything to do with whether I agreed with your reads or not.
Since it transpires you were genuninely asking me those questions and not actually adressing my vote, I'll answer: at the time, I don't think I would call any of them slam dunk town reads. Cheesecake was (and is) looking the best of them, but the others are pretty tenuous really - certainly nowhere close to calling the game easy. That's why I think you didn't genuninely consider them all strong town reads - you just listed them because other people were and you wanted to join in and get town points for making town reads. And if you are scum, you probably didn't list four townies - being able to slip a buddy into the list provides even more incentive to put some hard, burgeoning consensus town reads on record. Plus the more general "rule of threes".
Partly was when we had our little rambo off, I felt like it was townies bashing into each other. So cantrip/shadow/lngrr/ I have as townie (slightly hesitant on Eco). Other people I am town reading or null reading for different reasons.
I almost I feel like Azrael is wolfy, mostly because I feel like I am scraping the barrel to come up with 3 people that can be wolves. Still early though.
Lacking strong wolf reads right now. Light wolf reads on you/Highroller, slightly lighter on eco and rhand. But different meta than the quick and run I have gotten more accustom to. Moire used to just spitballing ideas, and interacting in almost real time. Trying to analyze posts after they have been dealt with for a while is tougher when other people have already commented on it.
All of Shadow, Cantrip, and LnGrrR being town is a big call. What are the key indicators in your mind that it's all a big town hoohah? Who would be the scum around the edges of it?
Also how come I get both a light town read and a light scum read?
Just felt like it from tone. Cantrip's issues felt legit, even if he was annoying me. LnGrr, was basically an empathy soul read and a combination of TWTBW. Shadow was probably the lightest read of the set, but he is volume telling pretty hard, and his claim of frustration wouldn't make sense from a wolf perspective, unless he is the type of person to cave from 1-2 pressure votes (I don't remember anything about his wolf meta, if he has any)
As far as you are concerned, I just felt like you were coming out of the edges, and felt like I was talking more at you than with you. That could just be that we were focused on other people, but I would safetly call Lngrr/Cantrip town reads, with you and shadow being more light. I don't know why I marked you as a wolf read. I think it was when I was looking for a third person, and I am still struggling to find wolf reads. Seems I am not the only one if we are already talking about deep wolves early day 1.
In other words, I hunt at the most basic level of mafia: Is this player trying to solve the game, or are they trying to look like they are solving the game? In that little pow-wah, that I just ranked off where everyone stood, I felt like I was getting some town feels. I would be 2 for 2 if I correctly called a chat that way, right turbo tom?
But also, tom is towny for joining my little Cheesepuff game.
Who are the wolves Vaimes?
Do I look psychic to you?
Yes.
We also have the same issue. Would like another opinion.
I feel like a lot of people are fine with the majority town reads. That seems problematic, do you agree? It could also just mean this village is just in line, and this game will be over real quick, but I find it odd.
The only reason to think that is paranoia. It's absolutely possible there's witch with free townreads running around, but that's not really something that can be helped on Day 1.
The only reason to think that is paranoia. It's absolutely possible there's witch with free townreads running around, but that's not really something that can be helped on Day 1.
Will lynching Az help you solve somehow?
Not really. I just don't like lurkers, and think there is enough town reads that he might just be a wolf by PoE. Like the pile I am looking at right now for potential wolves is something like Highroller, Rhand, Vaimes, and Eco. And nothing has really struck out as a vote I would have high confidence about. I feel really bothered that I don't have stronger wolf reads, that aren't lurk reads. It probably means there is at least 1 or 2 wolves I have in my town pile, but nothing has really been standing out.
Also I'm a little weirded out by you asking a scumread to vote with you on a 0 slot.
You are weirded out that I am not treating you like a lock read on 72 hours on the first day? o-0
And I am not asking you to vote with me (I am not voting) I was simply asking since you apparently are having the same problem I have (hard to scoop of wolf reads) what would you think of going for Azrael?
is that a case of you thinking they are the two most likely to be scum, or more of a risk aversion type of decision?
generally recommend just opening up his ISO and finding something semi-believable to have town read him for, over go that path
but since the door is open, he could still be a wolf who realizes they have little power, and therefore town also has little power, so it's not an absolute clear, though i understand having the thought
(realistically, if rhand is town here, and i sort of think he is for responding this way, wolves can look back at gj and see the same things he saw, so i don't care about mentioning it)
You guys know Tom doesn't ACTUALLY think people are scummy, right? Like, it's a joke? When you read a response like, "Rhand is scum for voting his scummiest vote" (not a real quote, just an example), that isn't a real scumread.
It's baffling to me why people seem to be taking this shtick seriously and/or saying it is hard to read through.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
it's a pretty short read
i have a light town read on him for the two posts, but it's dwindling with no followup
the problem is when he gives "fake" scum reads it's difficult to differentiate between "real" scum reads
i've read through his iso multiple times and don't really have a clue what his actual thoughts are, which makes me think he's reasonably likely to be scum, as i think as town he'd do a better job of conveying that through the gimmick
(Kiddo being sick is why I don't have time at the moment to go back through and point out specific posts.)
@Shadow, so do you think I am scum or not? The justification for your theoretical dayvig makes it sound like you think I am likely town but willing to shoot me for data.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
died on mu night one a few straight games, so try a new site. immediately accrue a bunch of town reads and see the writing on the wall
maybe if i tell the wolves it'd make me sad to die before trying out the messaging mechanic they'll let me live?
@lngr: if tom is really conveying his thoughts well through the gimmick, what do you make of the back-and forth we had about his Cantrip/Shadow reaction?
Not the part about his gimmick, but just that.
I see what you’re seeing, but is there a town game of his to compare with too? I think it might be NAI for him.
wait, i went and read the first bit of his iso in that game and assumed he was town there, was he actually scum?
i assumed shadow was referring to this game and that game feeling different, therefore he could be scum here
In that case I have no idea
he was town that game
so you're saying you see similarities between this one and that one?
vaimes
eco/rhand/gj
shadow/lng
riku
azreal/highroller
tom
cantrip
if cantrip is town i re-evaluate some of my higher up reads, but think he's scum here
Idk i guess i just leave it to the folk that
can readdont have any problem to interpret. Obviously its clear to me what im thinking lol.Also everyone that has posted since i was last in thread and didnt vote rand is scum. Hes outed
if you've read the recent pages, what do you make of his reasoning for town reading gj? i don't think that's a route wolves tend to take there
It should surprise no one here i have a lot of experience with that. And his progression on me is straight up that as well as fake.
Cheesesteak scum for not just reading the 3 paragraphs i already did on this.
As for gj read. Not super into talking about it but if i fully understood it all its a read scum are more likely to make but less likely to vocalize when they do. So i can see you thinking its not a route wolves are likely to take but dont think its more than a percentage point or two and barely care about it
tomsloger (1): Rumanshi
Shadowlancerx (2): Vaimes, Ecophagy
GentlemanJohnny (1): LnGrrrR
LnGrrrR (1): Cantripmancer
Cantripmancer (2): Rhand, SleepyCheescake
Highroller (1): Shadowlancerx
Rhand (1): Tom
Not voting (3): Highroller, Gentleman Johnny, Azrael
Azrael has until I have time to check in the morning to post or will be replaced.
Please let me know if there are any errors in the VC.
You’re ignoring my whole thought progression to fit your narrative.
Explain it like I'm five.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Why Highroller?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
o-0
And nothing else? (I mean, unless your guess was IC I suppose)
The GJ way path to no lynching:
OK. I read your #93 as guessing my motive for voting rather than a straight question. So I explained why I voted instead because it didn't have anything to do with whether I agreed with your reads or not.
Since it transpires you were genuninely asking me those questions and not actually adressing my vote, I'll answer: at the time, I don't think I would call any of them slam dunk town reads. Cheesecake was (and is) looking the best of them, but the others are pretty tenuous really - certainly nowhere close to calling the game easy. That's why I think you didn't genuninely consider them all strong town reads - you just listed them because other people were and you wanted to join in and get town points for making town reads. And if you are scum, you probably didn't list four townies - being able to slip a buddy into the list provides even more incentive to put some hard, burgeoning consensus town reads on record. Plus the more general "rule of threes".
All of Shadow, Cantrip, and LnGrrR being town is a big call. What are the key indicators in your mind that it's all a big town hoohah? Who would be the scum around the edges of it?
Also how come I get both a light town read and a light scum read?
Meh.
Feels like tom decided Rhand is scum and is finding reasons for it on the fly.
He seems like the type.
Not that I'd advocate FoS'ing him anytime soon.
Just felt like it from tone. Cantrip's issues felt legit, even if he was annoying me. LnGrr, was basically an empathy soul read and a combination of TWTBW. Shadow was probably the lightest read of the set, but he is volume telling pretty hard, and his claim of frustration wouldn't make sense from a wolf perspective, unless he is the type of person to cave from 1-2 pressure votes (I don't remember anything about his wolf meta, if he has any)
As far as you are concerned, I just felt like you were coming out of the edges, and felt like I was talking more at you than with you. That could just be that we were focused on other people, but I would safetly call Lngrr/Cantrip town reads, with you and shadow being more light. I don't know why I marked you as a wolf read. I think it was when I was looking for a third person, and I am still struggling to find wolf reads. Seems I am not the only one if we are already talking about deep wolves early day 1.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Who are the wolves Vaimes?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Yes.
We also have the same issue. Would like another opinion.
I feel like a lot of people are fine with the majority town reads. That seems problematic, do you agree? It could also just mean this village is just in line, and this game will be over real quick, but I find it odd.
Wanna just get the 0 poster?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Will lynching Az help you solve somehow?
Not really. I just don't like lurkers, and think there is enough town reads that he might just be a wolf by PoE. Like the pile I am looking at right now for potential wolves is something like Highroller, Rhand, Vaimes, and Eco. And nothing has really struck out as a vote I would have high confidence about. I feel really bothered that I don't have stronger wolf reads, that aren't lurk reads. It probably means there is at least 1 or 2 wolves I have in my town pile, but nothing has really been standing out.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Also I'm a little weirded out by you asking a scumread to vote with you on a 0 slot.
You are weirded out that I am not treating you like a lock read on 72 hours on the first day? o-0
And I am not asking you to vote with me (I am not voting) I was simply asking since you apparently are having the same problem I have (hard to scoop of wolf reads) what would you think of going for Azrael?
The GJ way path to no lynching: