D_V: Quite simply, you're claiming that EtR was more unreasonable than you, but I don't agree with that description.
And to be very clear: I'm not telling you what you do is *****. I am specifically not saying that. I would describe that as an insult, and I am specifically trying to not insult you.
Tentative guess at what the VC actually looks like:
EtR (4): [color=green]Vaimes[/color], dv, vezok, [color=green]ruma[/color]
DV (3): [color=green]Highroller[/color], Kami, etr
zdtsd (1): [color=green]tomsloger[/color]
Ruma (1): Silver
Silver (1): [color=green]zdt[color]
Not Voting (1): Tubba
As Vaimes? I think was asking.
D_V and Zdts being aligned as scum / scum or town / town is due to a the fact I think that I wouldn't put past a D_V plan of creating the dichotomy that people were talking about: "One of the flavour must be scum". Then, when either of them flips scum, the other gets a townclear for the other being scum. When in fact, both are scum. It's probably a scum tactic I might suggest tbh. But D_V's adamant that there is no dichotomy like that so I doubt that this is possible.
Private Mod Note
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Do you believe in UFOs, astral projection, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trans-mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?
-- Janine Melnitz
If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say.
--Winston Zeddemore
Vote stands on D_V. There is no way that Gozer is not the best choice for a lynch.
The only reason I don't find this 100% scummy is because of how right you were with Rod. Flavor alone is not a reason to vote someone.
Would you care to address this?
Yeah - Flavor is not the only reason to push someone. Flavor is what initially caused me to be suspicious, but other behaviors have caused me to want to vote him. Let's take a look:
1) The self vote was very reminiscent of Rodemy on Day 1. In my experience that is more often done by scum as it is playing against your own win condition as town.
2) I still believe that he has pushed many different scum "theories" toDay, and it looks like it is an attempt to get something to stick.
3) The buddying up with Vez who is another of my scum reads makes me uncomfortable.
4) The outright denial of wanting whatshisname dead yesterday and the pretty fake feeling remorse the flip.
Yeah - Flavor is not the only reason to push someone. Flavor is what initially caused me to be suspicious, but other behaviors have caused me to want to vote him. Let's take a look:
1) The self vote was very reminiscent of Rodemy on Day 1. In my experience that is more often done by scum as it is playing against your own win condition as town.
2) I still believe that he has pushed many different scum "theories" toDay, and it looks like it is an attempt to get something to stick.
3) The buddying up with Vez who is another of my scum reads makes me uncomfortable.
4) The outright denial of wanting whatshisname dead yesterday and the pretty fake feeling remorse the flip.
Ok fair.
Number 2 is noteworthy. I know he tried to push a theory that I'm mafia yesterday.
Dont think theres 3 in those 4 names, but theres usually 2.
DV i dont really like what hes pushing today in general (votes are good though lol) but hes easily towniest of the 4
Really lost on those ???? though. Could maybe say vez for the dv/ruma team, tubba/vaimes prolly work in the zdt worlds and etr in silver/ruma but im not sure i really believe in any of those
Still dont think 3 scum world is a thing unless multiple neutrals from rod role wording. would prolly be kami/dv i guess
Zdts is like 90% scum
>Role isnt likely as claimed, probable protection from ghostbuster kills, possible the delayer with the marshmallow cocoon flavor
>Target n1 doesnt make sense. Fuwa top townreads grape and vaimes.
>Freely claiming targets makes zero sense from any perspective except trying town read. And just a lot of the way hes dribbled out the full claim reeks of "but wait theres more"
>position on rod wagon, just as it became clear that was happening basically. And following what looks like a super awkward distancing attempt and no vote til he got called out on it.
>also spent several posts trying to connect people to rod while not *actually* talking about rod himself
>zdt going all in on dv. Circular reasoning since best point for dv town is zdt being scum but like man look at it in that world and tell me its not scummy af
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks EtR and D_V might both be mafia.
Since when did you start thinking this?
More recently. EtR's comment about don't vote someone based on flavor always bothered me, but then I got locked in on Rhand and vezok as D_V's squadmates (the latter I've not totally ruled out), and to be honest, I kind of forgot about EtR, as he wasn't that active. Obviously he's more on my radar now, both with his increased activity and Rhand's flipping town.
Etr is far from the only person telling you flavorgaming is unreliable
Empty conjecture. We'll know for certain when we catch our second mafia.
Not if there are more than two scum... Could be 50/50 or 70/30. Like, how is it reliable even if the second turns out for flavor gaming? This makes no sense.
Private Mod Note
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I am also called Riku. I tend to prefer being called riku.
Not if there are more than two scum... Could be 50/50 or 70/30. Like, how is it reliable even if the second turns out for flavor gaming? This makes no sense.
I was saying that if the mafia don't follow flavor, then by that logic, the moment we lynch a mafia that doesn't follow the pattern, it will become clear that I am wrong.
no its definitely unreliable. Thats not the same as never true.
I am vaguely worried what it being correct here too wpuld do to your future mafia career though lol
I mean, you're forgetting that time in which I went against flavor. He wasn't my top choice, but he was the only one whose bandwagon was making any kind of traction, and I agreed he was suspicious and a worthy lynch candidate.
It's called That Time We Daykilled Terry. You were there. How'd that go for us?
When your reads fail, that's when you go back to the drawing board and look at the facts. D_V claimed Gozer in a game where the only known mafia role was a follower of Gozer. He's also called for the daykill of a town he'd previously believed was cleared, of which he's now trying to defect blame for. He also voted himself, which makes absolutely no sense at all.
He's also spent an excessive amount of effort to try to be the loudest voice in the room, which is a defensive tactic: if you're the loudest voice in the room, you're the hardest one to shout over, meaning you're the most difficult person to gainsay. But the question is why? Why does he feel the need to be the center of the town's attention, or at least to control the direction of the town's discourse, so badly?
The answer is obvious. The same rule is true here as that of high school dating: ignore everything that comes out of the person's mouth, and look at what the person does.
Take a look at only what D_V has actually done. Ignore the words. What actions has he taken?
You will see nothing that hasn't been contrary to the interests of the town. Repeatedly shifting votes, erratically shifting positions from one bandwagon to another, voting for the daykill of a confirmed town, and voting himself in what was obviously not going to result in his lynch - and therefore which could only result in a day with no lynch.
The words are a smokescreen. What is underneath is someone who is actively subverting the interests of the town. That, combined with an enormous heaping of "refuge in audacity," is pretty blatantly D_V's game here.
If I may ask: what is keeping you from voting him?
Refuge in audacity/proof by verbosity is as much part of DVs game regardless of alignment as being aloof and agenda/world-based is part of mine, or flavorgaming is of yours afaict
That said im pretty likely to vote dv if these are my choices
But would vote pretty literally anyone over another no lynch
One other thing, if we're talking about D_V's actions, is that he has never answered my question of how it makes any sense that Terry was "hardcleared" by him, and I've been asking this question since Day 2.
D_V's claim was that he's Gozer, he's town, and therefore Terry, vezokpiraka, and I are cleared as towns because we reacted to the Day 1 announcement of Gozer as a bad thing that was probably linked to the mafia. He even later said he thought that hardcleared us.
Except he's never said why that clears us, and has dodged any attempt by me to get him to actually provide a satisfactory explanation.
It doesn't make any sense at all.
Gozer is the antagonist of Ghostbusters, which the game is themed around. So if you're a town, who knows nothing about this game other than your role and the fact that it's Ghostbusters-themed, and you heard the mod describing the big, booming voice from the sky asking you to choose the form of Gozer - the main villain of the movie the game is based around - your default assumption would be that this was a bad thing, right? That would just be a normal assumption for a town to make.
Now, assume Gozer is town. You're a mafia on Day 1. You read the post from Cantripmancer, big booming voice, choice of Gozer's form, etc. Ok. So in this hypothetical, you're mafia, you know who the other mafia are, and you know Gozer's not one of them. Meaning he's either neutral or town. So you should have two thoughts right now:
1. "Huh, that's really weird how one of the mafia is a follower of Gozer but Gozer is not himself mafia. Isn't that weird, guys?"
2. "This is a problem. Gozer's definitely a power role - given that big, booming mod voices and choices about forms are not things that normal vanilla towns make happen - and that means trouble."
So what would you do? You'd probably go ahead and say that Gozer means trouble, right? Both because you want the town to think Gozer's a threat to them, because you'd want to turn them against this guy, and also because you'd want to blend in with the other towns, as the normal assumption would be that Gozer's bad.
Do you see the problem? D_V's trying to argue that regarding Gozer as a threat is somehow a town tell. But why? If Gozer were town, and the mafia were blindsided by a giant Gozer message, why wouldn't a mafia say the exact same thing in that same scenario? Why is it a town tell?
Ironically, the only way it would even be close to a town tell, the only way that what D_V is saying would even remotely make sense, is if Gozer's mafia. Then, yeah, maybe you'd go back and think, "Yeah, the people who were reacting by saying that Gozer's really bad and a threat might be town, as a mafia would want the town to not actively look for Gozer and regard him as a threat." Maybe. You'd still have an issue with the fact that the mafia could always have just been saying they thought Gozer was bad to blend in, but that just brings things right back to my point: there's no basis for hardclearing anyone here.
What D_V is saying makes no sense. Terry, vezok, and I thinking that Gozer was a threat when the big, booming voice announced his presence in the game does not clear us in any fashion, and it has never made any sense for D_V to argue this.
Or rather, it does make perfect sense, if you understand that Terry was the clear frontrunner for a daykill on a day in which no other wagon was going anywhere, no one besides D_V and Terry himself were making any real defense for Terry, and the town was largely somnambulant. Then it makes perfect sense why D_V would run around trying to claim that Terry was cleared - because he could then, after Terry died, run around saying that he was right and told everyone that Terry was cleared but noooooo, you guys wouldn't listen. Which is precisely what he did and continues to do.
The only issue is that in order for this to work, Terry would first have to be daykilled.
Which D_V then proceeded to move in favor of, ultimately being the seventh person to voice that he was fine with a Terry daykill - despite believing that Terry was hardcleared like two pages prior.
Refuge in audacity/proof by verbosity is as much part of DVs game regardless of alignment as being aloof and agenda/world-based is part of mine, or flavorgaming is of yours afaict
What about the rest of his actions? Does he pull a stunt of voting himself that results in a no lynch regardless of alignment? Does he publicly condone the death of a town that he'd previously roleclaimed out of a belief that he'd hardcleared that person regardless of alignment?
Yeah... pretty sure EtR and DV aren't wolves together lol. Like, theater is definitely a thing, but this isn't... that, and they're both off wagon on the Rodemy lynch. Anyone who thinks this is theater care to elaborate? Alright here's a thing. I changed my mind on EtR after isoing him. He's pretty likely to be a Rodemy buddy even if I don't think his posting has been very wolfy in a vacuum. Also think DV's case on him is super bad, especially because I actually quite like EtR's posting absent the Rodemy stuff and DV didn't relate him to Rodemy at all, just like, his progression on Rodemy is super weird if he's not Rodemy's partner.
I feel loved. Tom seems towny, Rod seems towny. elijah needs to explain more
oooo this is wolfy, too
if ruma is town Elijah would have to be the world's most tone deaf scum to say this after all that
I like this thought from Tom.
In post 96 Kamikazee proposes Name Claim to allow better targeting, however in post 97 (The next post, you see) he makes the statement that flavorgaming is unreliable. This to me feels a lot like scum fishing for info. Rodemy does the same exact thing in 98 and 99. This feels coordinated.
To qualify my earlier statement a little bit: flavorgaming alignment is risky. My own #96 is flavorgaming of a sort - for example, I'm assuming that both Peter Venkman and Dana Barrett are Human from flavor - but I think that kind of flavorgaming is generally fine. MTGS mods generally don't change things like "is this character human". The only recent counterexample I can think of is very minor - Golgari Grave-Troll's colors being changed in Banned mafia.
Slight back peddle here, but provides "the only recent example" being the very last game to finish.
Highroller and Kami seem pretty earnest.
No one else really moved the needle while I was asleep
Oh no - I feel opposite.
I still don't like Highroller pushing the PM issue. Feels icky.
I like Vaimes for 122-124 but disagree with his current Tom view. I like his stance on claiming info.
Here he's like. Says he likes a tom post, then says he thinks Rodemy and KA are coordinated scum posting, votes KA over Rodemy (this becomes a pattern).
(There's a bit here that got cut off by the quote function that I liked on initial read, where he says he doesn't like a Vezok vote and immediately back pedals on it. I liked it because I feel like the wolf version of this post should either leave his dislike of Vezok open or should just omit that bit altogether, unless he's exactly Vezok's wolf buddy and trying to distance.)
i think there's 0-1 wolves in tom, re, and grape. dont want to look in there, dont want to really talm there, but id appreciate their consistent thoughts.
i thought vaimes and tsjw or whatever his name had good entrances as well. sort of a level 1 read, but yk, i'm chilling on it.
/vote kamikaze
think his entrance was meh, think his content early on was meh, think his play is detached and is a good center piece for scumteams. realistically this just an easy wolf hit to set us up for further days if it hits right though i'm thinking of hitting somebody wolfy af but also who's got a lot of associatives.
also fuwa's entrance pinged me a little, and i'm gonna read into em more. i only read first two pages, might read more, but i'm kind of struggling in life rn but dont want to replace out of my first game here.
Super wishy washy post.
I like that Tom is asking questions and following up on them. He's not doing the "ask questions to appear busy" thing. Specifically looking at his interactions with Elijah.
And directly after I liked Tom's interaction there is this post from Rod
I was super suspicious if Tom like twice that I can remember. right now, after a few of his posts, he isn’t contributing much to the game and it’s starting to irk me.
unvote
Vote tom
While I wouldn't say that Tom is contributing a lot, he is contributing. So this post seems out of place.
Highroller, Elijah, and Ruma can all be town till further notice.
My gut wants to put Vaimes, RE, and EtR there as well but I'm not going to listen to it yet.
Curious as to why you think Elijah is town?
@TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - what is a deep clear (post 285)
I'm not confident on my vote on Kami anymore so
Unvote KamikazeArchon
His posts have felt a lot better since he dropped the Rod issue. I don't feel like I'm on the same page as some of you guys with Elijah.
Vote Elijah
His posts were wishy-washy and non-commital.
Here he's doing the same thing. He calls out stuff Rodemy is doing, then says he likes KA better after he dropped the Rodemy thing and moves to Elijah for making a wishy-washy post.
Then he sort of latches onto Fuwa for the rest of the day. He says he thinks Fuwa's vote on Rodemy is a bus (which, like, it could be, but EtR isn't voting Rodemy at this juncture either and is trying to get Fuwa as a counterwagon to Rodemy while saying Fuwa is bussing him... then later on he says he thinks Rodemy is just bad town. He spends literally the rest of the day indirectly defending him and trying to derail his wagon onto Fuwa.)
I almost don't even want to comment on the rest of his iso, it's pretty much what DV said only most of it isn't really AI in my opinion. I guess it's like, A Thing that he's been at the same handful of players for scum, maybe he just thinks those are the mislynches he can get and he's gunning for them hard. But like. Town can get pretty tunnelly too. The main thing for me is this Rodemy progression.
Also think DV's case on him is super bad, especially because I actually quite like EtR's posting absent the Rodemy stuff and DV didn't relate him to Rodemy at all, just like, his progression on Rodemy is super weird if he's not Rodemy's partner.
I almost don't even want to comment on the rest of his iso, it's pretty much what DV said only most of it isn't really AI in my opinion. I guess it's like, A Thing that he's been at the same handful of players for scum, maybe he just thinks those are the mislynches he can get and he's gunning for them hard. But like. Town can get pretty tunnelly too. The main thing for me is this Rodemy progression.
Anyway, yeah, EtR read is one of the ones I intend on explaining before deadline. Probably even do him first because right now it's just kind of a strong gut feeling and I want to go back and try to like, verbalize why I think he's town.
But then he finds my Rodemy progression which has been there since Day 1 and He claims to have caught up. Keeping in mind this post that I"m quoting is from 3 days ago. I've gone from Town to the most scummy player in the game and deserving of a vote in 3 days? Nah.
It's fine if I'm the lynch but you all need to look at some of this behavior.
I never said you were the scummiest player in the game. And yeah, I missed your Rodemy progression, I thought your posting was townie in a vacuum and I wasn't playing super close attention to it. I'd still rather lynch Ruma, but it's you or DV, and I think you make more sense with Rodemy than he does.
Super like the point about EtR trying to get a wagon going on Fuwa for bussing Rod but then calling Rod bad town. And the general Rod progression.
I’m uh. Actually more persuaded by Highroller to vote DV than I thought I’d be. But I think an EtR lynch absolutely needs to happen.
On the one hand, I’m actually surprised by the complete lack of pushback here and not entirely sure what to make of it. On the other, I think EtR would have a more passionate reaction to being lynched here if he’s town and suddenly has a bunch of votes on him. The ”yeah fine lynch me” stuff just reads like caught scum.
On the one hand, I’m actually surprised by the complete lack of pushback here and not entirely sure what to make of it. On the other, I think EtR would have a more passionate reaction to being lynched here if he’s town and suddenly has a bunch of votes on him. The ”yeah fine lynch me” stuff just reads like caught scum.
Nope, just over it. I've got my thoughts out there and my most recent list is where I'm at so if it happens it happens. Hopefully, you all will look back on it and review tonight/tomorrow.
I never said you were the scummiest player in the game. And yeah, I missed your Rodemy progression, I thought your posting was townie in a vacuum and I wasn't playing super close attention to it. I'd still rather lynch Ruma, but it's you or DV, and I think you make more sense with Rodemy than he does.
I make more sense based on the fact that He wasn't in the game then or the fact that the player he replaced didn't interact with him? That's a weak excuse.
On the one hand, I’m actually surprised by the complete lack of pushback here and not entirely sure what to make of it. On the other, I think EtR would have a more passionate reaction to being lynched here if he’s town and suddenly has a bunch of votes on him. The ”yeah fine lynch me” stuff just reads like caught scum.
Nope, just over it. I've got my thoughts out there and my most recent list is where I'm at so if it happens it happens. Hopefully, you all will look back on it and review tonight/tomorrow.
No reevaluation whatsoever based on the current votes?
Not really. I would move ZD up and out of scum I suppose, because I believe DV to be the scum between those two. Vez and Silver are in the scum bucket as well. Those would be my current top 3 to choose from. I do dislike that pretty much everyone I've had in the lower third is now voting me, but you can't get any data from that.
I guess I’ll be a little disappointed if you’re town and didn’t at least try to work together with one of your townreads to prevent this.
No opinion on tom having you as one of his highest townreads for most of the game and now he’s got nothing really to say about you dying here?
Dude, I've tried to point out multiple times today and yesterday behaviors I've found scummy. I've cased players. I'm not getting any engagement.
I dislike Tom not fighting harder if he truly believes I'm town, but we CANNOT have another no lynch and I'm a claimed VT, so... I understand where he's coming from?
Which of your townreads did you try to engage with? To my knowledge you were talking mostly with your scumreads.
Oh, no one really. I don't really do that. I guess it's not my playstyle. I would prefer to engage with people I find scummy and then create a case or push them to find inconsistencies in their posts.
And to be very clear: I'm not telling you what you do is *****. I am specifically not saying that. I would describe that as an insult, and I am specifically trying to not insult you.
DV (3): Highroller, Kami, etr
zdtsd (1): tomsloger
Ruma (1): Silver
Silver (1): zdt
Not Voting (1): Tubba
EtR (4): [color=green]Vaimes[/color], dv, vezok, [color=green]ruma[/color]
DV (3): [color=green]Highroller[/color], Kami, etr
zdtsd (1): [color=green]tomsloger[/color]
Ruma (1): Silver
Silver (1): [color=green]zdt[color]
Not Voting (1): Tubba
As Vaimes? I think was asking.
D_V and Zdts being aligned as scum / scum or town / town is due to a the fact I think that I wouldn't put past a D_V plan of creating the dichotomy that people were talking about: "One of the flavour must be scum". Then, when either of them flips scum, the other gets a townclear for the other being scum. When in fact, both are scum. It's probably a scum tactic I might suggest tbh. But D_V's adamant that there is no dichotomy like that so I doubt that this is possible.
DV (3): Highroller, Kami, etr
zdtsd (1): tomsloger
Ruma (1): Silver
Silver (1): zdt
Not Voting (1): Tubba
Was a theory. not a definite...
Got it
It was based on claims and taking into account on the distancing the two had...
EtR, as much as I appreciate you joining the D_V bandwagon, and I do, I am going to have to be thorough here:
Would you care to address this?
-- Janine Melnitz
If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say.
--Winston Zeddemore
Votecount 3.5
D_V (3): Highroller, KamikazeArchon, EtR
zdtsd (1): tomsloger
Rumanshi (1): Silvercrys3467
Silvercrys3467 (1): zdtsd
EtR (4): Vaimes, D_V, vezokpiraka, Rumanshi
Not Voting (1): Tubba Fett
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!
Day 3 deadline is at 8:00am MST, on Friday, January 18th (three days from now). Countdown Clock
Yeah - Flavor is not the only reason to push someone. Flavor is what initially caused me to be suspicious, but other behaviors have caused me to want to vote him. Let's take a look:
1) The self vote was very reminiscent of Rodemy on Day 1. In my experience that is more often done by scum as it is playing against your own win condition as town.
2) I still believe that he has pushed many different scum "theories" toDay, and it looks like it is an attempt to get something to stick.
3) The buddying up with Vez who is another of my scum reads makes me uncomfortable.
4) The outright denial of wanting whatshisname dead yesterday and the pretty fake feeling remorse the flip.
I will vote EtR if it avoids another deadline no-kill but only for that reason.
My top suspects haven't changed significantly. Riku is doing better but not better enough to slide out of the scumlean territory.
Tubba, why are you not voting anyone?
Number 2 is noteworthy. I know he tried to push a theory that I'm mafia yesterday.
Understandable, but I'm really hoping that someone from the EtR crew flips over to vote D_V.
Not if there are more than two scum... Could be 50/50 or 70/30. Like, how is it reliable even if the second turns out for flavor gaming? This makes no sense.
I am vaguely worried what it being correct here too wpuld do to your future mafia career though lol
I mean, you're forgetting that time in which I went against flavor. He wasn't my top choice, but he was the only one whose bandwagon was making any kind of traction, and I agreed he was suspicious and a worthy lynch candidate.
It's called That Time We Daykilled Terry. You were there. How'd that go for us?
When your reads fail, that's when you go back to the drawing board and look at the facts. D_V claimed Gozer in a game where the only known mafia role was a follower of Gozer. He's also called for the daykill of a town he'd previously believed was cleared, of which he's now trying to defect blame for. He also voted himself, which makes absolutely no sense at all.
He's also spent an excessive amount of effort to try to be the loudest voice in the room, which is a defensive tactic: if you're the loudest voice in the room, you're the hardest one to shout over, meaning you're the most difficult person to gainsay. But the question is why? Why does he feel the need to be the center of the town's attention, or at least to control the direction of the town's discourse, so badly?
The answer is obvious. The same rule is true here as that of high school dating: ignore everything that comes out of the person's mouth, and look at what the person does.
Take a look at only what D_V has actually done. Ignore the words. What actions has he taken?
You will see nothing that hasn't been contrary to the interests of the town. Repeatedly shifting votes, erratically shifting positions from one bandwagon to another, voting for the daykill of a confirmed town, and voting himself in what was obviously not going to result in his lynch - and therefore which could only result in a day with no lynch.
The words are a smokescreen. What is underneath is someone who is actively subverting the interests of the town. That, combined with an enormous heaping of "refuge in audacity," is pretty blatantly D_V's game here.
If I may ask: what is keeping you from voting him?
That said im pretty likely to vote dv if these are my choices
But would vote pretty literally anyone over another no lynch
D_V's claim was that he's Gozer, he's town, and therefore Terry, vezokpiraka, and I are cleared as towns because we reacted to the Day 1 announcement of Gozer as a bad thing that was probably linked to the mafia. He even later said he thought that hardcleared us.
Except he's never said why that clears us, and has dodged any attempt by me to get him to actually provide a satisfactory explanation.
It doesn't make any sense at all.
Gozer is the antagonist of Ghostbusters, which the game is themed around. So if you're a town, who knows nothing about this game other than your role and the fact that it's Ghostbusters-themed, and you heard the mod describing the big, booming voice from the sky asking you to choose the form of Gozer - the main villain of the movie the game is based around - your default assumption would be that this was a bad thing, right? That would just be a normal assumption for a town to make.
Now, assume Gozer is town. You're a mafia on Day 1. You read the post from Cantripmancer, big booming voice, choice of Gozer's form, etc. Ok. So in this hypothetical, you're mafia, you know who the other mafia are, and you know Gozer's not one of them. Meaning he's either neutral or town. So you should have two thoughts right now:
1. "Huh, that's really weird how one of the mafia is a follower of Gozer but Gozer is not himself mafia. Isn't that weird, guys?"
2. "This is a problem. Gozer's definitely a power role - given that big, booming mod voices and choices about forms are not things that normal vanilla towns make happen - and that means trouble."
So what would you do? You'd probably go ahead and say that Gozer means trouble, right? Both because you want the town to think Gozer's a threat to them, because you'd want to turn them against this guy, and also because you'd want to blend in with the other towns, as the normal assumption would be that Gozer's bad.
Do you see the problem? D_V's trying to argue that regarding Gozer as a threat is somehow a town tell. But why? If Gozer were town, and the mafia were blindsided by a giant Gozer message, why wouldn't a mafia say the exact same thing in that same scenario? Why is it a town tell?
Ironically, the only way it would even be close to a town tell, the only way that what D_V is saying would even remotely make sense, is if Gozer's mafia. Then, yeah, maybe you'd go back and think, "Yeah, the people who were reacting by saying that Gozer's really bad and a threat might be town, as a mafia would want the town to not actively look for Gozer and regard him as a threat." Maybe. You'd still have an issue with the fact that the mafia could always have just been saying they thought Gozer was bad to blend in, but that just brings things right back to my point: there's no basis for hardclearing anyone here.
What D_V is saying makes no sense. Terry, vezok, and I thinking that Gozer was a threat when the big, booming voice announced his presence in the game does not clear us in any fashion, and it has never made any sense for D_V to argue this.
Or rather, it does make perfect sense, if you understand that Terry was the clear frontrunner for a daykill on a day in which no other wagon was going anywhere, no one besides D_V and Terry himself were making any real defense for Terry, and the town was largely somnambulant. Then it makes perfect sense why D_V would run around trying to claim that Terry was cleared - because he could then, after Terry died, run around saying that he was right and told everyone that Terry was cleared but noooooo, you guys wouldn't listen. Which is precisely what he did and continues to do.
The only issue is that in order for this to work, Terry would first have to be daykilled.
Which D_V then proceeded to move in favor of, ultimately being the seventh person to voice that he was fine with a Terry daykill - despite believing that Terry was hardcleared like two pages prior.
What about the rest of his actions? Does he pull a stunt of voting himself that results in a no lynch regardless of alignment? Does he publicly condone the death of a town that he'd previously roleclaimed out of a belief that he'd hardcleared that person regardless of alignment?
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I’d like it better if you’d refute them with your own thoughts.
Alright here's a thing. I changed my mind on EtR after isoing him. He's pretty likely to be a Rodemy buddy even if I don't think his posting has been very wolfy in a vacuum. Also think DV's case on him is super bad, especially because I actually quite like EtR's posting absent the Rodemy stuff and DV didn't relate him to Rodemy at all, just like, his progression on Rodemy is super weird if he's not Rodemy's partner.
(There's a bit here that got cut off by the quote function that I liked on initial read, where he says he doesn't like a Vezok vote and immediately back pedals on it. I liked it because I feel like the wolf version of this post should either leave his dislike of Vezok open or should just omit that bit altogether, unless he's exactly Vezok's wolf buddy and trying to distance.)
Then he sort of latches onto Fuwa for the rest of the day. He says he thinks Fuwa's vote on Rodemy is a bus (which, like, it could be, but EtR isn't voting Rodemy at this juncture either and is trying to get Fuwa as a counterwagon to Rodemy while saying Fuwa is bussing him... then later on he says he thinks Rodemy is just bad town. He spends literally the rest of the day indirectly defending him and trying to derail his wagon onto Fuwa.)
I almost don't even want to comment on the rest of his iso, it's pretty much what DV said only most of it isn't really AI in my opinion. I guess it's like, A Thing that he's been at the same handful of players for scum, maybe he just thinks those are the mislynches he can get and he's gunning for them hard. But like. Town can get pretty tunnelly too. The main thing for me is this Rodemy progression.
Vote: EtR
Ok scum.
But then he finds my Rodemy progression which has been there since Day 1 and He claims to have caught up. Keeping in mind this post that I"m quoting is from 3 days ago. I've gone from Town to the most scummy player in the game and deserving of a vote in 3 days? Nah.
It's fine if I'm the lynch but you all need to look at some of this behavior.
I’m uh. Actually more persuaded by Highroller to vote DV than I thought I’d be. But I think an EtR lynch absolutely needs to happen.
On the one hand, I’m actually surprised by the complete lack of pushback here and not entirely sure what to make of it. On the other, I think EtR would have a more passionate reaction to being lynched here if he’s town and suddenly has a bunch of votes on him. The ”yeah fine lynch me” stuff just reads like caught scum.
I’ll reconsider DV if I’m totally wrong here.
Tubba: I asked you a question.
Nope, just over it. I've got my thoughts out there and my most recent list is where I'm at so if it happens it happens. Hopefully, you all will look back on it and review tonight/tomorrow.
Silver, DV, Vez right now.
No opinion on tom having you as one of his highest townreads for most of the game and now he’s got nothing really to say about you dying here?
Dude, I've tried to point out multiple times today and yesterday behaviors I've found scummy. I've cased players. I'm not getting any engagement.
I dislike Tom not fighting harder if he truly believes I'm town, but we CANNOT have another no lynch and I'm a claimed VT, so... I understand where he's coming from?
Oh, no one really. I don't really do that. I guess it's not my playstyle. I would prefer to engage with people I find scummy and then create a case or push them to find inconsistencies in their posts.
I can’t imagine getting the engagement you want from people who, if you’re correct, don’t actually care about your alignment.
If they choose not to engage, then I take the avoidance as scummy.