So, haven't found any recent mafia neighborizers - but there's a paucity of data; I only see what, 3? 4? neighborizers in the last couple of years on MTGS. Checking other sites suggests it's "usually" a town role.
The role is reasonably confirmable - not as confirmable as a vig, but more confirmable than a doc.
yeah, gaining private communication is not beneficial to town whatsoever
That's not what I said; nice attempt at a misrep. I said neighborizer isn't a guaranteed town role, as in, it's quite frequently a scum role. Of course gaining private communication can be beneficial to town. But that doesn't mean that it can't also be beneficial to scum.
Quote from Mikey »
trying to delegitimize my claim is the play scum makes 99.9999% of the time
I actually don't have a problem with your claimed role; could be town, could be scum. The way you claimed is the problem: one word, no details, no flavor, emotional attack ("you guys suck"), followed by nervous posting when no one immediately unvoted.
Quote from Mikey »
trying to protect your partner, I guess.
lolwut?
And yes, we've had multiple, recently. I put one in Silence of the Lambs (Shadowlancer). I know there've been others recently. There was one where the scum could neighborize two other players and could listen in to them talking...
access to private communication is so potentially powerful for town yet so mediocre for scum
the only reason it would be a scum role is to screw with people
there's no way this is frequently a scum role
no
freaking
way
Its one of those can be either side roles, But the fact that you didnt try and defend yourself before claiming makes me lean even harder towards scum. Why not fight off accusations today then save claiming for another time?
...he said, posting three times in a row trying to shore up his position.
But seriously, I know there's been at least one other recently, and I think there's been more. They weren't called "neighborizer" (mine was a Shrink/Psychologist, for example), but they're there. I'll try to find them.
But that's beside the point. Like I said, the role itself can be town or scum. You responded to my accusation of nervous posting (while doing what I feel was more nervous posting); no objection to the rest of what I said about how you claimed? And don't say "the less said when claiming the better" because that's the recourse of fakeclaiming scum.
@RR What do you expect good players to be doing at this stage? Break down what you expect scumhunting this early in the game to look like for me.
Good players at this stage are scumhunting by setting up questions that will be alignment/dichotomy related in later days. Outside of blind luck or scum slips day 1 is the least important day at the time, and the most important day at the end of the game.
Basically what you want to be able to do, is make sure that at some point during day 1 everyone has been asked hard questions about the game by someone, even if its not you, and even better for multiples. This data in the late game when analyzing voting and wagon patterns is very helpful in narrowing down, or atleast it has been for me, and for some others ive seen with similar styles
@RR What do you expect good players to be doing at this stage? Break down what you expect scumhunting this early in the game to look like for me.
Good players at this stage are scumhunting by setting up questions that will be alignment/dichotomy related in later days. Outside of blind luck or scum slips day 1 is the least important day at the time, and the most important day at the end of the game.
Basically what you want to be able to do, is make sure that at some point during day 1 everyone has been asked hard questions about the game by someone, even if its not you, and even better for multiples. This data in the late game when analyzing voting and wagon patterns is very helpful in narrowing down, or atleast it has been for me, and for some others ive seen with similar styles
BASED ON THIS I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH ME. IDK WHAT GAMES WE PLAYED TOGETHER BUT... YEAH I CREATE DATA POINTS CONSTANTLY IT'S ALWAYS MY WHOLE EARLY GAME GOAL.
Shadow's role in Overwatch was a scum jailer who could chat with his target (not terribly recent, but a good example). Not sure why I didn't think of this one sooner...
My role (duh!) in Arkham Horror had an item that created a 3-person chat each Night.
I still think there's been a recent one where the scum could listen in...maybe one that I reviewed for another site...
OH! If anyone is actually Milo, please pause for a moment before you just counterclaim Mikey. If he's going down anyway, no reason to out yourself to the scum.
Your more recent posts have felt more like the Dan I remember: even and controlled and logical. But no, that's not it. If you don't mind, I'm going to hold off on providing specifics for this particular read.
@RR What do you expect good players to be doing at this stage? Break down what you expect scumhunting this early in the game to look like for me.
Good players at this stage are scumhunting by setting up questions that will be alignment/dichotomy related in later days. Outside of blind luck or scum slips day 1 is the least important day at the time, and the most important day at the end of the game.
Basically what you want to be able to do, is make sure that at some point during day 1 everyone has been asked hard questions about the game by someone, even if its not you, and even better for multiples. This data in the late game when analyzing voting and wagon patterns is very helpful in narrowing down, or atleast it has been for me, and for some others ive seen with similar styles
@RR What do you expect good players to be doing at this stage? Break down what you expect scumhunting this early in the game to look like for me.
Good players at this stage are scumhunting by setting up questions that will be alignment/dichotomy related in later days. Outside of blind luck or scum slips day 1 is the least important day at the time, and the most important day at the end of the game.
Basically what you want to be able to do, is make sure that at some point during day 1 everyone has been asked hard questions about the game by someone, even if its not you, and even better for multiples. This data in the late game when analyzing voting and wagon patterns is very helpful in narrowing down, or atleast it has been for me, and for some others ive seen with similar styles
BASED ON THIS I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH ME. IDK WHAT GAMES WE PLAYED TOGETHER BUT... YEAH I CREATE DATA POINTS CONSTANTLY IT'S ALWAYS MY WHOLE EARLY GAME GOAL.
Because you are chaos incarnate, its not that i dislike playing with you, i just dont trust my reads of you in the early game because of the way you play. I tend to like the games we are in together overall
@ReverseRoot: No comments on Mikey, his claim, or Dan's call for reads?
I had made a small comment earlier about feeling his claim was BS. Like I said when i placed the vote, outside of a smoking gun or deadline thats where my vote is today.
As for reads, Me posting as much as I have today is a fluke, Usually Wed, Thu, Fri Im lucky to get 1 post per day, but I will take some time to flesh out some of my other leads if I have time, if not I have 12 hours of watching paint dry at work on saturday, the lurkers have me a bit iffy though.
@dan
I agree it's no longer productive, which is why I voted you. It's a scumtell because you seem unaware of how Mikey is being perceived by the majority of the thread (suggesting a bias that comes with insider knowledge). I would not describe his reads as "sufficient," and considering some of his unexplained reads included a scumread of you (which from your perspective, should be automatically wrong), I would be more doubtful of his alignment. It's why I took issue with his Manasi read, because I did not see what he saw. Here is where I made assumptions. If someone makes a read that I agree with and they don't explain, I might not take issue with it. If someone makes a read I don't understand and they didn't provide reasoning for it, I would ask them to explain to see if they're justified in it. I'm going to assume that you wouldn't understand why Mikey called you scummy, because from your perspective, you should be town. He also didn't explain why, so how is that read sufficient, from your pov? But if being called scummy without reason is something you don't question at this stage of the game, then I have no idea.
If I sound condescending, it's not my intention, so I apologize. (I really am not trying to be, but you're the third person to call me out on that. Coincidence or not, the other two were scum in those games.) I do feel like we might just be having difficulty communicating, and while what I'm saying seems perfectly clear to me, maybe it's not to you? Like you have a tendency to miss my point and go off on tangents. And I don't know how you don't see that your misrepresentation of me in your reasoning for voting me was malicious, or applying your opinion (on mafia theory) that naked votes are lazy and don't benefit town as reasoning for me to be scum isn't valid. If you think scum are more likely to approach the thread with no reasoning to their votes, prove it. That's what I'm asking you to cite, because in my experience, it is irrelevant to their alignment and more reflective of their style. Really difficult for me to see the town motivation in that, but I know of another player whom I had the same issue with, and it was irrelevant to their alignment, and for all I know, maybe you have the same issue with me. So what you read as "condescending" is more likely frustration over not knowing if you are faking it or if it's genuine confusion.
What you call a "horrible assumption" is, I don't know your alignment. For me to assume you gave me the benefit of the doubt I would first need to be aware that you are town and are approaching me without knowing my alignment. Otherwise, if you are scum, then you definitely did not consider both possibilities of my alignment.
Played with tom, Kami, vez, and kpaca once before. Also followed some games they were in.
~~~
Is it possible Mikey is just unaware that neighborizer is a role found commonly on both alignments? I don't think it is, but that might just be my bias in that my first two encounters of the role, they were scum.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
The claim does nothing for me. In my experience the role is about 50%-50% split between the alignments. The role, if scum, is pretty powerful when you are playing normally (read: not outed scum) and pretty meh when you are town (you can hit scum and even if you hit town you can't force them to trust you so it's not a mason chat).
Also, based on my role, your claimed role is pretty improbable.
Let dan do what he wants with his ability and hammer away,
The only thing that is giving me pause is that mikey might be some sort of jester role.
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I claimed a blue role that is 90% guaranteed to be town aligned
I character claimed the MAIN CHARACTER, WHOM THERE IS ONLY ONE OF, AND FLAVORFULLY CANNOT HAVE SCUM BUDDIES
I claimed a blue role that is 90% guaranteed to be town aligned
I character claimed the MAIN CHARACTER, WHOM THERE IS ONLY ONE OF, AND FLAVORFULLY CANNOT HAVE SCUM BUDDIES
It's not, though? Cantrip even listed games where it was a scum role.
Where does it say flavor is alignment indicative?
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
The claim does nothing for me. In my experience the role is about 50%-50% split between the alignments. The role, if scum, is pretty powerful when you are playing normally (read: not outed scum) and pretty meh when you are town (you can hit scum and even if you hit town you can't force them to trust you so it's not a mason chat).
Also, based on my role, your claimed role is pretty improbable.
Let dan do what he wants with his ability and hammer away,
The only thing that is giving me pause is that mikey might be some sort of jester role.
It is impossible for there to be a jester and you have definitely played enough games here to know that. Why are you worried about jesters all of a sudden?
I claimed a blue role that is 90% guaranteed to be town aligned
I character claimed the MAIN CHARACTER, WHOM THERE IS ONLY ONE OF, AND FLAVORFULLY CANNOT HAVE SCUM BUDDIES
this is a pile of crap
I'm done with this forum
I provided counter examples of this role being on scum, and flavor is NEVER a guarantee of alignment (unless the Mod says so, I suppose).
You insulting all of us in every post isn't helping, by the way. I mean, your base assertions (that it's a blue role and that the flavor has to be town) have been called false by many, several of whom are veterans who (presumably) know what they're talking about. So maybe take a step back and reassess?
Maybe I shouldn't question flavor... I'm pretty unfamiliar with this book.
Milo is undoubtedly the main character and is a positive character in general. But not making the "good guys" town and the "bad guys" scum is Mafia game design 101. If you do that, your entire game can end on a mass flavor claim.
The claim does nothing for me. In my experience the role is about 50%-50% split between the alignments. The role, if scum, is pretty powerful when you are playing normally (read: not outed scum) and pretty meh when you are town (you can hit scum and even if you hit town you can't force them to trust you so it's not a mason chat).
Also, based on my role, your claimed role is pretty improbable.
Let dan do what he wants with his ability and hammer away,
The only thing that is giving me pause is that mikey might be some sort of jester role.
It is impossible for there to be a jester and you have definitely played enough games here to know that. Why are you worried about jesters all of a sudden?
I didn't mean specifically a third party jester, but a role that might do something when lynched. I just find mikey's play this completely non-characteristic of him. He doesn't even feel like the same person I've played with before.
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So, haven't found any recent mafia neighborizers - but there's a paucity of data; I only see what, 3? 4? neighborizers in the last couple of years on MTGS. Checking other sites suggests it's "usually" a town role.
The role is reasonably confirmable - not as confirmable as a vig, but more confirmable than a doc.
The role has ended up in mafia, in I don't know what amount of time, but it does happen. I remember Sir Chris in an old game claimed mafia neighborizer.
There was also a town one in Prophs game.
Why are you trying to meta game here? I aint a cop, what's your read?
Milo began to think as hard as he could (which was very difficult, since he wasn't used to it). He thought of birds that swim and fish that fly. He thought of yesterday's lunch and tomorrow's dinner. He thought of words that began with J and numbers that end in 3. And, as he thought, the wheels began to turn.
"We're moving, we're moving," he shouted happily.
"Keep thinking," scolded the watchdog.
Gentleman Johnny (6) - vezokpiraka, kpaca, ReverseRoot, the worst, Killmatronix, tomsloger
Cantripmancer (1) - Gentleman Johnny
ganderin_dan (1) - RE1031
ReverseRoot (1) - KamikazeArchon
Ive seen it, cant remember which game though, it was one of my first ones back the other time. Hunt ended up pocketing someone with it IIRC
The role is reasonably confirmable - not as confirmable as a vig, but more confirmable than a doc.
my wagon always has scum on it
I actually don't have a problem with your claimed role; could be town, could be scum. The way you claimed is the problem: one word, no details, no flavor, emotional attack ("you guys suck"), followed by nervous posting when no one immediately unvoted.
lolwut?
And yes, we've had multiple, recently. I put one in Silence of the Lambs (Shadowlancer). I know there've been others recently. There was one where the scum could neighborize two other players and could listen in to them talking...
EWP: Yes, it's confirmable, but it's NAI.
no
freaking
way
the only reason it would be a scum role is to screw with people
if you think I get nervous playing twg you've got another thing coming
I get bored and I get upset and I get excited
kind of cyclical almost
Its one of those can be either side roles, But the fact that you didnt try and defend yourself before claiming makes me lean even harder towards scum. Why not fight off accusations today then save claiming for another time?
THIS IS AN EXTREMELY SOFT CC
AKA STILL WOULDN'T VOTE HIM IF I DIDN'T THINK HE WAS SCUMMY, AND I'M NOT ACTUALLY CLAIMING.
TAKE FROM THIS WHAT YOU WILL
But seriously, I know there's been at least one other recently, and I think there's been more. They weren't called "neighborizer" (mine was a Shrink/Psychologist, for example), but they're there. I'll try to find them.
But that's beside the point. Like I said, the role itself can be town or scum. You responded to my accusation of nervous posting (while doing what I feel was more nervous posting); no objection to the rest of what I said about how you claimed? And don't say "the less said when claiming the better" because that's the recourse of fakeclaiming scum.
I'll wait for everyone to chime in, but I'm down to hammer pretty much whenever.
Shadow's role in Overwatch was a scum jailer who could chat with his target (not terribly recent, but a good example). Not sure why I didn't think of this one sooner...
My role (duh!) in Arkham Horror had an item that created a 3-person chat each Night.
I still think there's been a recent one where the scum could listen in...maybe one that I reviewed for another site...
because you're all so bad
bye
I would self hammer but I'm not that much of a jerk
since you all are so stupid
I character claim milo the MAIN CHARACTER AND DEFINITELY NOT SCUM
I think this is where I stand right now.
Town
RE1031
Gan_Dan
Tom
The Worst
ReverseRoot (more likely town if Mikey scum)
vezokpiraka
kpaca
Killmatronix
Manasi
Kami
Mikey
Scum
EWP: Um...there are definitely games where the "main" character of the source material is scum. Not sure why you think that's such a slam dunk.
Because you are chaos incarnate, its not that i dislike playing with you, i just dont trust my reads of you in the early game because of the way you play. I tend to like the games we are in together overall
I had made a small comment earlier about feeling his claim was BS. Like I said when i placed the vote, outside of a smoking gun or deadline thats where my vote is today.
As for reads, Me posting as much as I have today is a fluke, Usually Wed, Thu, Fri Im lucky to get 1 post per day, but I will take some time to flesh out some of my other leads if I have time, if not I have 12 hours of watching paint dry at work on saturday, the lurkers have me a bit iffy though.
I agree it's no longer productive, which is why I voted you. It's a scumtell because you seem unaware of how Mikey is being perceived by the majority of the thread (suggesting a bias that comes with insider knowledge). I would not describe his reads as "sufficient," and considering some of his unexplained reads included a scumread of you (which from your perspective, should be automatically wrong), I would be more doubtful of his alignment. It's why I took issue with his Manasi read, because I did not see what he saw. Here is where I made assumptions. If someone makes a read that I agree with and they don't explain, I might not take issue with it. If someone makes a read I don't understand and they didn't provide reasoning for it, I would ask them to explain to see if they're justified in it. I'm going to assume that you wouldn't understand why Mikey called you scummy, because from your perspective, you should be town. He also didn't explain why, so how is that read sufficient, from your pov? But if being called scummy without reason is something you don't question at this stage of the game, then I have no idea.
If I sound condescending, it's not my intention, so I apologize. (I really am not trying to be, but you're the third person to call me out on that. Coincidence or not, the other two were scum in those games.) I do feel like we might just be having difficulty communicating, and while what I'm saying seems perfectly clear to me, maybe it's not to you? Like you have a tendency to miss my point and go off on tangents. And I don't know how you don't see that your misrepresentation of me in your reasoning for voting me was malicious, or applying your opinion (on mafia theory) that naked votes are lazy and don't benefit town as reasoning for me to be scum isn't valid. If you think scum are more likely to approach the thread with no reasoning to their votes, prove it. That's what I'm asking you to cite, because in my experience, it is irrelevant to their alignment and more reflective of their style. Really difficult for me to see the town motivation in that, but I know of another player whom I had the same issue with, and it was irrelevant to their alignment, and for all I know, maybe you have the same issue with me. So what you read as "condescending" is more likely frustration over not knowing if you are faking it or if it's genuine confusion.
What you call a "horrible assumption" is, I don't know your alignment. For me to assume you gave me the benefit of the doubt I would first need to be aware that you are town and are approaching me without knowing my alignment. Otherwise, if you are scum, then you definitely did not consider both possibilities of my alignment.
Played with tom, Kami, vez, and kpaca once before. Also followed some games they were in.
~~~
Is it possible Mikey is just unaware that neighborizer is a role found commonly on both alignments? I don't think it is, but that might just be my bias in that my first two encounters of the role, they were scum.
Also, based on my role, your claimed role is pretty improbable.
Let dan do what he wants with his ability and hammer away,
The only thing that is giving me pause is that mikey might be some sort of jester role.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
what the actual heck
I claimed a blue role that is 90% guaranteed to be town aligned
I character claimed the MAIN CHARACTER, WHOM THERE IS ONLY ONE OF, AND FLAVORFULLY CANNOT HAVE SCUM BUDDIES
this is a pile of crap
I'm done with this forum
Where does it say flavor is alignment indicative?
I provided counter examples of this role being on scum, and flavor is NEVER a guarantee of alignment (unless the Mod says so, I suppose).
You insulting all of us in every post isn't helping, by the way. I mean, your base assertions (that it's a blue role and that the flavor has to be town) have been called false by many, several of whom are veterans who (presumably) know what they're talking about. So maybe take a step back and reassess?
WOULD SAY NEIGHBORIZER IN GENERAL IS A BIT MORE LIKELY TOWN, BUT SLIGHTLY LESS SO ALONGSIDE MY ROLE.
WOULD BET MONEY AGAINST OSI MAKING FLAVOR AI, AND ALSO I AM A ~BAD GUY ANYWAY
HAVE SEEN NOTHING TO SWAY ME FROM MY PREDICTED SCUMTEAM.
I am going to refrain from commenting on Mikey for a bit to make sure I can do so in a level manner.
I didn't mean specifically a third party jester, but a role that might do something when lynched. I just find mikey's play this completely non-characteristic of him. He doesn't even feel like the same person I've played with before.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Do NOT discuss the circumstances around this replacement.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Im lock town, boyo.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The role has ended up in mafia, in I don't know what amount of time, but it does happen. I remember Sir Chris in an old game claimed mafia neighborizer.
There was also a town one in Prophs game.
Why are you trying to meta game here? I aint a cop, what's your read?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Cantripmancer (1) - Gentleman Johnny
ganderin_dan (1) - RE1031
ReverseRoot (1) - KamikazeArchon
Not voting: Cantripmancer, ganderin_dan, Manasi
Day 1 Lynch Deadline will be Sunday, September 30th at 1500 MST. There will be a Twilight period (No voting) of 0-8 hours to account for the host having a life outside of Mafia.
With 12 players, it takes 7 to lynch.
Yay, a voice of reason...
Lets give him some time to catch up, and see how he feels about things
The GJ way path to no lynching: