What do you make of Kill's inaccurate comment on vez - that he was "jumping wagons" or something like that?
How about the fact vez soft cc'd a flipped town role? Do you think scum!vez would do that?
I will add that nothing has yet happened with Dan's ability as far as I have been notified.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
What do you make of Kill's inaccurate comment on vez - that he was "jumping wagons" or something like that?
How about the fact vez soft cc'd a flipped town role? Do you think scum!vez would do that?
I will add that nothing has yet happened with Dan's ability as far as I have been notified.
I don't read a lot into Killma's comment about vez - if they're wolves together it was p obvious at that point that the only play was to crossbus/distance and it wasn't a very strong anti associative comment so I'm pretty comfortable with that.
and yes, the way he cc'd was really shaky. like "there's a part of my role which proves he doesn't exist" and then proceeding to the actual claim which....... does no such thing........ is really wolfy. it's more like he was trying to drive a final nail into GJ's coffin than actually counterclaim from a solving point of view if that makes sense?
and yes, the way he cc'd was really shaky. like "there's a part of my role which proves he doesn't exist" and then proceeding to the actual claim which....... does no such thing........ is really wolfy. it's more like he was trying to drive a final nail into GJ's coffin than actually counterclaim from a solving point of view if that makes sense?
I don't agree with his decision to counterclaim, but I also don't see why scum would do that. If GJ had flipped town then, do you think scum!vez would have been able to wriggle out of that one? It draws attention to himself, and now he will be held accountable for that ability.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
and yes, the way he cc'd was really shaky. like "there's a part of my role which proves he doesn't exist" and then proceeding to the actual claim which....... does no such thing........ is really wolfy. it's more like he was trying to drive a final nail into GJ's coffin than actually counterclaim from a solving point of view if that makes sense?
I don't agree with his decision to counterclaim, but I also don't see why scum would do that. If GJ had flipped town then, do you think scum!vez would have been able to wriggle out of that one? It draws attention to himself, and now he will be held accountable for that ability.
I guess the GJ nk and the apparent high likelihood that he was selected as the nightkill rather than directing it to himself is probably the #1 thing working in the favour of town!vez but I still think thru the WIFOM he just reads as aligned with Killma and not aligned with GJ.
all the same point taken, better places to focus atm
Killma: opens with a shot at RE.
RE: Questions it. Tom: immediately votes killma, just says “w/v”.
Vezok: neutral / “informative” comment on killma
G_d: posts that Killma feels like newb town, also prods with “why apologetic”
Killma pulls off of RE
RE questions Killma more
Tom asserts Killma scum -> RE town
The_worst hypothesis (light): re/killma T/T
RE still hard on Killma. Not pushing a lynch, but forcing questions to be answered.
Backs off after gets answers.
Cantrip asks Killma about experience.
Killma answers partly
Cantrip probes further
Killma answers more detail
ReverseRoot puts Killma in town pile, no reasoning
Vezok asks killma: who would you vig?
Killma waffles on Mikey/GJ
Vezok links Mikey and Killma: Mikey scum -> Killma scum RE votes Killma
Killma shades vezok and RE
RE disagrees with Mikey-Killma link, but thinks Killma independently scummy
RE suggests Kill/Vez team
Cantrip suggests me/manasi/Killma targets for scumhunting
Killma “reads”: GJ scum, Tom hard to read, RE town, Vezok scummy - the “jumping wagons” line here.
Vezok jumps on the “jumping wagons”
The_worst questions Killma’s meta read on RE.
Dan asserts Killma is fencesitting, notes scum read alongside Vez, GJ, me. GJ votes Killma Cantrip votes Killma
The_worst has Killma in scumreads, above {me + vezok}
Vezok wants to focus on GJ and Killma
Tom has Killma as low confidence scum with Vezok (above GJ+Dan+Worst)
Vezok, points out more negatives on Killma
Manasi asks for interaction context with Killma
RE, Vezok give Manasi answers/summaries
The_worst questions lack of wagon on Killma The_worst votes Killma Tom votes Killma
Dan FoS Killma, no reasoning Dan votes Killma vezok votes Killma
My conclusions:
RE is about as lock town as you can get. First on the wagon and stays on it; pushing Killma from the start.
In general, seems like RE, GJ and Cantrip are the "seed votes" enabled the wagon to form. GJ is known town so irrelevant; some town points for Cantrip, notably because the competing GJ wagon was at L-1 or L-2 here, so this was a "turning point" for the wagon inertia.
Null on those who came on the wagon later, when it already had weight; those actions are 50/50 town or bussing.
Most interesting is Killma/Vezok. I initially thought it was odd that the "jumping wagons" thing got pounced on but with no vote, and Vezok doesn't actually vote until hammer. I was wondering if this was scum capitalization - throwing Killma to the wolves, maybe even the whole "slip" was a ploy. But on reviewing the timing, this is impossible; the turning-point votes didn't come until after that, Killma only had one vote at the time. So this was a natural reaction. Therefore this looks like a town Vezok.
The only interactions I dislike: Killma had Tom as "hard to read". Given that Killma seemed to be trying really hard just to not make a blunder, this seems like where they would have wanted to put a scumbuddy.
Resulting reads: Very strong town RE, strong town Vezok, moderately town Cantrip. Slight scumlean on Tom.
There are also the players who didn't interact with Killma in any meaningful way - Manasi, kpaca, ReverseRoot. Notably these are also all three heavily lurking. Need to shine a light here.
@the_worst: Can you substantiate your claims against KA? He mindmelded with me at every step of the game.
@KA: Great analysis on the killma interactions. I have some thoughts to give.
- I think killma parroted the thread when he said tom is hard to read. He didn't want to commit on a hard read, but needed padding for his read list. I think he didn't put any scum there because he was afraid to interact with them.
- His interactions with the_worst feel like scum trying to distance each other, but it's really inconclusive.
- I think ReverseRoot slot needs scrutiny as his townread for no reason on killma is eyebrow raising.
Also sorry I was wrong about you mikey.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
I guess the GJ nk and the apparent high likelihood that he was selected as the nightkill rather than directing it to himself is probably the #1 thing working in the favour of town!vez but I still think thru the WIFOM he just reads as aligned with Killma and not aligned with GJ.
Personally I think the GJ kill was to frame those on his wagon, and I think it's likely Kill was bussed by the remaining two scum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Over the night period, I thought about things and I found the Cantrip/the worst interactions forced and remind me of the other times I've seen scum distancing. Especially when Cantrip asked me about a certain worst post and I didn't notice anything significant about it, and the topic kind of just died. So those are my two suspects for today. However, I haven't really taken a look at the worst's posts in detail (I find some of his conclusions a little off), so I'm more confident in cantrip.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
I HAVE SOME SETUP REASONS TO THINK CANTRIP COULD BE SCUM BUT THE VOTE ITSELF SEEMS PRETTY... INSTRUMENTAL.
IDK KINDA MAKES SENSE AS A PLANNED BUS + FRAMING PEOPLE ON THE GJ WAGON OBVIOUSLY KILLMAS BUDDIES WEREN'T EXPECTING HIM TO ENDGAME THIS *****.
I THOUGHT DAN LOOKED THE MOST LIKE A BUS BUT LESS SO IN THE WORLD WHERE THEY PLANNED IT.
REALLY LOOKS LIKE HE KNEW HE WAS LATE.
AND NOW I'M REMEMBERING THE WORST TRYING TO ATTACK ME FOR VOTING KILLMA WITH HIM BUT I BRUSHED IT OFF PRETTY THOROUGHLY LOL.
ANYWAY I STARTED THIS THINKING I'D QUESTION SCUMREADING CANTRIP BUT YEAH IF BUS WAS PLANNED HIM AND THE WORST SEEMS VIABLE
No reasoning to the post. This feels like a bad scum approach. You don't look new either.
W/V
VOTE: KILLMATRONIX
STILL THINK THIS HOLDS, ESPECIALLY WITH KILLMA BEING SO INEXPERIENCED IN THIS KIND OF MAFIA AND THIS BEING SO EARLY IN THE GAME. JUST SUCH A NATURAL THING TO SAY ABOUT A TOWNIE FOR NOOB SCUM.
GONNA MAKE THIS A HARD CLEAR
You've got a whole lot of these vague things. Do you have anything specific?
/barn
---
To prove I can create an original thought:
>KA trys to start game
>RE decides he doesn't like this, and votes him
>RE acknowledges KA was trying to start the game after being called out by Killma, but doesn't unvote
>RE acknowledges that his vote was after RVS, but still a random vote, but defends his random vote
>Defense of not-so-random random vote chooses to omit the first reaction that it was intended to generate (mine)
@mikey In addition to adding myself to the chorus of people asking you to be more specific, why do you dislike KA?
@Killmatronix Why are you sounding so apologetic?
WHICH IS EVEN SCUMMIER WITH KILLMA FLIPPING SCUM. HE WANTED THAT TO BE A DICHOTOMY AND PUSH RE FIRST. THIS NARRATIVE DEFINITELY WORKS WITH THE VIBE OF HIS KILLMA VOTE.
VOTE: DAN
STILL LIKE THIS BETTER, BUT WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM CANTRIP.
I've been normalized. Some flavor about how I'm nowhere near as important as I thought I was. No more games/variance, but it seems like a net improvement on my ability.
I've been normalized. Some flavor about how I'm nowhere near as important as I thought I was. No more games/variance, but it seems like a net improvement on my ability.
How may I be of service?
I was waiting for you to post. I actually targeted RE with my ability. Out of the 12 possible abilities it could rand on it actually went to normalize so at least everyone knows what that does.
Something strange happened though. Osie said at first I used it on RE, then on KA and then on ganderin_dan. It was probably just a honest mistake, but I wanted to share the info.
I'm not sure what to think of this redirect, but I think it comes from either tom or another town who believed tom and thought both me and dan are scum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
No, that was me. I suppose I should full claim, given what has happened.
I chose another player during the day, then we played rock, paper, scissors. RE won, and as a result, any non-killing actions that targeted RE last night were redirected to me. If I were to have won the game, the effects would have been reversed.
Now that I have been normalized, I am an Asceticiser.
---
Me
Vezok (this role doesn't seem like it belongs on a Mafia member [net improvement, but not a strict upgrade)
RE
Cantrip
The Worst (I think the overNight posting further improved his standing, it feels like he's organically reacting and continuing to worldbuild)
KA/Tom (nothing damning, just not as towny as above individuals)
Manasi/Kpaca (blank)
PoE currently suggests RR slot.
---
I understand how my vote could be interpreted as bussing, and that's definitely in scum!Dan's wheelhouse. The only counterargument I have is that I don't think it would've been difficult to push a deadline lynch through on GJ/mikey given the circumstances, or for my to just not be here (and really I shouldn't have been, as I was driving, but w/e). But WIFOM.
I agree with Tom that idt GJ would’ve used Hero that early. Hell, I probably wouldn’t use it at all outside of very narrow circumstances where there’s both a mechanically confirmed townie and we’re in some specific 5-7 player range where I have high odds of targeting scum, AND living neighbors to tell who I’m intending to target that I trusted.
Echoing the sentiments by the town liking KA’s analysis. This strongly aligns with my current reads.
---
@worst With the GJ flip, does that change your opinion that both scum were/not on the Mikey wagon? I also disagree with you regarding town!vez based on the NK. Having been scumbuddies with him in Friendly Neighbors, I know that as scum he places a premium on private communication. What makes you think the GJ nk gives him the town credit?
@RE I think no news is good news on my ability use on you. I also think that given the context of Vezok’s CC, while I also wouldn’t have advised it, lends him some towncred. What makes you think the Cantrip/worst interactions were forced/distancing? Can you provide examples?
Also, would you rank the members on Killma’s wagon, if you think both scum members are on it?
@Vezok What makes you think the worst/kilma interactions were distancing? Can you provide examples?
So I reread the worst to answer dan's question. I came out of it feeling really strongly that the worst is either town or scum playing way too well. His stances have been mostly on point all game, his progression lacks the feeling of TMI you get from scum trying to push a lynch. I have compiled a list of quotes of what I've found to be scummy posts from the worst, but it's small and circumstantial.
You've got a whole lot of these vague things. Do you have anything specific?
/barn
---
To prove I can create an original thought:
>KA trys to start game
>RE decides he doesn't like this, and votes him
>RE acknowledges KA was trying to start the game after being called out by Killma, but doesn't unvote
>RE acknowledges that his vote was after RVS, but still a random vote, but defends his random vote
>Defense of not-so-random random vote chooses to omit the first reaction that it was intended to generate (mine)
@mikey In addition to adding myself to the chorus of people asking you to be more specific, why do you dislike KA?
@Killmatronix Why are you sounding so apologetic?
NO
IF KILLMASCUM, RE TOWN
I SEE NO REASON TO GO THE OTHER WAY.
HOWEVER
IF KILLMA/RE BOTH TOWN, DAN LIKELY SCUM FOR THIS
scarily enough, a voice from the spirit plane was whispering to me last night that Killma/RE is t/t and Dan is scum
also digging the hype level. I am proud to be a Tom rn
Here the worst reinforces his killman town read, but claims it's what came to him in a dream. Seems extremely non-commital.
I also found a question from Cantrip that I didn't answer. It was about me seeming scum from not trusting in my towniness enough.
The answer is that I've been lynched day 1 or close to that in the last few games I've been. At the time I didn't really want to get wagoned yet again for "HUR DURR vezok is scum for absolutely no reason"
My re-read has also strengthen my ReverseRoot scumread. I have also gained a cantrip scumread independently of the RR scumread and their relation is also kinda bad.
Cantrip has some really safe post considering how day 1 went.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
I'm not sure what to think of this redirect, but I think it comes from either tom or another town who believed tom and thought both me and dan are scum.
JUST GONNA SAY THAT TOWNVEZOK ASSUMING HE WAS REDIRECTED BY TOWN IS INSANE TO ME. NOT GONNA GO HAM ON THIS BECAUSE I ALREADY KNOW ME AND VEZ THINK SUPER DIFFERENTLY.
Killma: opens with a shot at RE.
RE: Questions it. Tom: immediately votes killma, just says “w/v”.
Vezok: neutral / “informative” comment on killma
G_d: posts that Killma feels like newb town, also prods with “why apologetic”
Killma pulls off of RE
RE questions Killma more
Tom asserts Killma scum -> RE town
The_worst hypothesis (light): re/killma T/T
RE still hard on Killma. Not pushing a lynch, but forcing questions to be answered.
Backs off after gets answers.
Cantrip asks Killma about experience.
Killma answers partly
Cantrip probes further
Killma answers more detail
ReverseRoot puts Killma in town pile, no reasoning
Vezok asks killma: who would you vig?
Killma waffles on Mikey/GJ
Vezok links Mikey and Killma: Mikey scum -> Killma scum RE votes Killma
Killma shades vezok and RE
RE disagrees with Mikey-Killma link, but thinks Killma independently scummy
RE suggests Kill/Vez team
Cantrip suggests me/manasi/Killma targets for scumhunting
Killma “reads”: GJ scum, Tom hard to read, RE town, Vezok scummy - the “jumping wagons” line here.
Vezok jumps on the “jumping wagons”
The_worst questions Killma’s meta read on RE.
Dan asserts Killma is fencesitting, notes scum read alongside Vez, GJ, me. GJ votes Killma Cantrip votes Killma
The_worst has Killma in scumreads, above {me + vezok}
Vezok wants to focus on GJ and Killma
Tom has Killma as low confidence scum with Vezok (above GJ+Dan+Worst)
Vezok, points out more negatives on Killma
Manasi asks for interaction context with Killma
RE, Vezok give Manasi answers/summaries
The_worst questions lack of wagon on Killma The_worst votes Killma Tom votes Killma
Dan FoS Killma, no reasoning Dan votes Killma vezok votes Killma
My conclusions:
RE is about as lock town as you can get. First on the wagon and stays on it; pushing Killma from the start.
In general, seems like RE, GJ and Cantrip are the "seed votes" enabled the wagon to form. GJ is known town so irrelevant; some town points for Cantrip, notably because the competing GJ wagon was at L-1 or L-2 here, so this was a "turning point" for the wagon inertia.
Null on those who came on the wagon later, when it already had weight; those actions are 50/50 town or bussing.
Most interesting is Killma/Vezok. I initially thought it was odd that the "jumping wagons" thing got pounced on but with no vote, and Vezok doesn't actually vote until hammer. I was wondering if this was scum capitalization - throwing Killma to the wolves, maybe even the whole "slip" was a ploy. But on reviewing the timing, this is impossible; the turning-point votes didn't come until after that, Killma only had one vote at the time. So this was a natural reaction. Therefore this looks like a town Vezok.
The only interactions I dislike: Killma had Tom as "hard to read". Given that Killma seemed to be trying really hard just to not make a blunder, this seems like where they would have wanted to put a scumbuddy.
Resulting reads: Very strong town RE, strong town Vezok, moderately town Cantrip. Slight scumlean on Tom.
There are also the players who didn't interact with Killma in any meaningful way - Manasi, kpaca, ReverseRoot. Notably these are also all three heavily lurking. Need to shine a light here.
GUESS I GOTTA COMMENT ON THIS NON-SARCASTICALLY...
I THINK THIS IGNORES A CRAZY AMOUNT. IT'S LITERALLY JUST "EARLY ON THE WAGON IS +TOWN"
EXCEPT FOR ME BEING THE FIRST VOTE, WHICH IS ALSO IGNORED.
OTHER THAN THAT IT'S MOSTLY JUST DATA, THOUGH I LIKE THE VEZOK BIT.
OVERALL THINK IT'S A MEDIOCRE POST, AND I JUST KNEEJERKED TO THE ME BIT. I FEEL LIKE KAMI HAS JUST BEEN SCUMREADING ME FOR PLAYSTYLE AND FORCED LOOKING CRAP LIKE "OH HE SAID TOM IS HARD TO READ" AS IF THAT'S NOT LITERALLY THE PREVAILING READ ON ME GAMEWIDE SO EVERYONE IS MY BUDDY OR SOME *****. BUT THAT DESCRIBES MY ENTIRE MEMORY OF PLAYING WITH KAMI AND I KEEP EXPECTING IT TO EVOLVE AND IT DOESN'T.
ANYWAY THE POINT OF THIS IS I THINK VEZOK DID LIKE IT BUT ADDED TO IT WHICH LOOKS TOWNIE TO ME, AND DAN:
I've been normalized. Some flavor about how I'm nowhere near as important as I thought I was. No more games/variance, but it seems like a net improvement on my ability.
How may I be of service?
I was waiting for you to post. I actually targeted RE with my ability. Out of the 12 possible abilities it could rand on it actually went to normalize so at least everyone knows what that does.
Something strange happened though. Osie said at first I used it on RE, then on KA and then on ganderin_dan. It was probably just a honest mistake, but I wanted to share the info.
I'm not sure what to think of this redirect, but I think it comes from either tom or another town who believed tom and thought both me and dan are scum.
OK, we have an explanation for why it would have targeted RE and then dan, but why am I in the list? I got no notifications about normalization, and I don't know of any mechanical reason from my own role that would have caused me to appear in that list. The mod error hypothesis is plausible but I'd like to get it confirmed; can you PM osie and check? Otherwise we have a dangling unknown here.
KINDA FEELING LIKE I'M SITTING WAITING FOR PEOPLE TO COMMENT ON MY SOLVEY STUFF BUT NO ONE IS GOING TO BECAUSE IT WAS DURING NIGHT.
BUT ALSO IM SORT OF UNHAPPY WITH THOSE READS AND I'M ACTUALLY MORE LIKE RE
*HUGE ******* MESS*
DAN
I COULD CLEAN IT UP A LITTLE WITH, LIKE, VEZOK/KAMI/ROOT BEING A HIGHER TIER THAN THE REST OF THE MESS BUT I'M SO MEH ON ALL 3 THEY DON'T EVEN FEEL LIKE TOWNREADS JUST QUESTION MARKS IN A VAGUELY HOPEFUL FONT
RE
VEZ/KAMI/ROOT
*MEDIUM SIZE MESS*
DAN
THAT'S... YEAH OTHER THAN LIGHTGREEN NOT BEING LIGHT ENOUGH THAT'S ABOUT ILL IVE GOT RIGHT NOW.
I want specifics. What part of vezok's behavior do you not like? And if you want him lynched, why are you not voting him? Where did tom out Cantrip, and how? And why are you not voting Cantrip? What do you mean by "the worst can substitute Cantripmancer"?
ALSO KINDA FEEL LIKE MANASI TRAPPED HERSELF WITH HER READ OF MIKEY AND STAYED OUT OF EOD BUT ALSO I WANT TO JUST KEEP IGNORING HER
How do you figure? I don't really feel trapped. Just really terrible at checking games right now bc still getting in the swing of work. Good thing I was right though.
Dodooododoodo, seems like a pretty sufficiently good wagon. Glad you guys pushed that over. Would have probably joined it had I been around.
I don't really like Albertino's entrance, seems really forced and more like trying to fake getting thread involved than actually trying to dive into the game (my inclination from their last few posts).
Tom doubting me is fine but I'm hardly reading his posts because that caps thing has somehow actually transitioned into me getting headaches whenever I read it lol. It's too much.
Dan's claim is NAI but I still think that him being on the wagon vs not keeps him alive today.
Vezok's confidence when Albertino threatened to CC was good imo, lean towny there.
The worst/tom interactions were pretty towny as well imo. Game is probably just as easy as it looks.
Stupid delay ***** making my ***** useless. Life goes on.
"A-H-H-H-R-R-E-M-M," roared the gateman, clearing his throat and snapping smartly to attention. "This is Dictionopolis, a happy kingdom, advantageously located in the foothills of confusion and caressed by gentle breezes from the sea of knowledge. Today, by royal proclamation, is market day. Have you come to buy or sell?"
"You must have come here for some reason."
"Come now, if you don't have a reason, you must at least have an explanation or certainly an excuse."
"Very serious, very serious," the gateman said, shaking his head also. "You can't get in without a reason." He thought for a moment and then continued. "Wait a minute; maybe I have an old one you can use."
He took a battered suitcase from the gatehouse and began to rummage busily through it, mumbling to himself, "No... no... no... this won't do... no... h-m-m-m... ah, this is fine," he cried triumphantly, holding up a small medallion on a chain. He dusted it off, and engraved on one side were the words "WHY NOT?"
"That's a good reason for almost anything—a bit used perhaps, but still quite serviceable."
How does my response unnerve you? You put reasoning in every other decision than me and then proceeded to vote.
Your vote on Mikey carries much weight despite you lacking presence in the thread. While you provided reasoning, it's not backed up by the same amount of explanation, or depth, or interactions with Mikey as the other players voting him. It comes off as scum cementing a lynch.
And this is where I disagree with vez. I don't think you are lock scum if Mikey is scum. I just think the way you wrote that post comes off as ingenuine.
Keeping my presence is a thing I noticed I'm struggling with. Bear with me, it's a new format for me and I'm just trying my best to be useful. I realize that it's an area I need to get better in and I'll try to strengthen that suit of my gameplay.
I'd like to say that I'm still leaning GJ as scum, as the things Mikey kept on saying filled me with distrust. Pitching a tantrum at the end doesn't look good either, whatever happened in the game and people already had solid reasons to vote him.
Tom's very hard to read for me. The caps throw me off heavily, but I'm certain that he's more town than scum.
Re strikes me as towny too, their reasonings being pretty justifiable and from a meta example, they're slow to vote, so I've a pretty strong towny leaning on them.
Vezok seems to just be jumping wagons, trying to get an easy lynch in. I'd like to say that I'm moving more towards scum with them.
The rest is more neutral than I'd like.
I am jumping wagons by literally not moving my vote since RVS. I voted a single person this entire game.
You can't even claim I tried to push other wagons as the only other person I've expressed suspicion about is you.
Regarding the normalize ability. I have no idea what a normal version of a role means. It's not explained, but it heavily implies that all roles in this game are not normal.
KA, RE and dan all feel like town to me due to how they approached the game. Reading RE vs dan it just feels like you are reading townies how want to explain themselves to others without pushing an agenda. KA is there because he mindmelded with me a bit.
Cantrip, RR and tom. I was feeling kinda bad about tom, but his last post alleviated some of my concerns. This honestly feels like tom from Off the Grid or Pirates and make me think he is town, but I'm never sure about him. Cantrip is doing several townish things and asking good questions. He is capable of doing that as scum, but my gut mostly says that he is on townier side of things. RR is in a weird limbo. I liked him before he disappeared, but there is nothing that can't be faked or that gives me real good vibes, but reading his posts they just feel like +town posts.
Kpaca and Manasi are in this game?
the worst. His posts give me that feeling that he is trying to validate his reads to the rest of the thread without having much conviction.
GJ, Killman. Nothing that the GJ slot has done is what I'd consider townie. GJ refusal to connect with other players is destroying any chance of making me read this slot as anything other than scum. Two very capable persons have occupied this slot, but neither have done even 20% of what they are capable of. (kpaca is kinda in the same boat, but he has been missing, not doing actively scummy things in thread). Killman reads like scum for the first time who doesn't know how to blend in or how to help his team. The fact that he was actively posting and engaging in the beginning of the day and the fact that he didn't say anything relevant the last few days is concerning.
Also osie clarified something else. If the role is already normal it remains normal and if the role doesn't have a normal flavour it becomes vanilla. I guess the point against mikey's claim is moot now.
Seeing how it's the last day, I might just get this out of the way, retaining that I'm still somewhat lost, and claim town protective. It's a weak role, making me think like there's probably another protective out there. Wouldn't know how frequent certain roles appear.
We gotta hear more than this. Who is character? What makes your role weak instead of normal?
I think all of these posts ESPECIALLY the first one point to those two NOT being partners. Pretty sure Vezok would feel NO pressure to respond that aggressively against one of his buddies. For lack of a better term, it was almost too sassy to be a partner interaction imo.
ALSO KINDA FEEL LIKE MANASI TRAPPED HERSELF WITH HER READ OF MIKEY AND STAYED OUT OF EOD BUT ALSO I WANT TO JUST KEEP IGNORING HER
How do you figure? I don't really feel trapped. Just really terrible at checking games right now bc still getting in the swing of work. Good thing I was right though.
Dodooododoodo, seems like a pretty sufficiently good wagon. Glad you guys pushed that over. Would have probably joined it had I been around.
I don't really like Albertino's entrance, seems really forced and more like trying to fake getting thread involved than actually trying to dive into the game (my inclination from their last few posts).
Tom doubting me is fine but I'm hardly reading his posts because that caps thing has somehow actually transitioned into me getting headaches whenever I read it lol. It's too much.
Dan's claim is NAI but I still think that him being on the wagon vs not keeps him alive today.
Vezok's confidence when Albertino threatened to CC was good imo, lean towny there.
The worst/tom interactions were pretty towny as well imo. Game is probably just as easy as it looks.
Stupid delay ***** making my ***** useless. Life goes on.
that wasn't serious... lol how does that give him town points? what's there to like?
how am i already trying to fake something, when i just started posting??
how was my entrance forced?
Forcing yourself into nonexistent interactions by throwing around votes etc.
ALSO KINDA FEEL LIKE MANASI TRAPPED HERSELF WITH HER READ OF MIKEY AND STAYED OUT OF EOD BUT ALSO I WANT TO JUST KEEP IGNORING HER
How do you figure? I don't really feel trapped. Just really terrible at checking games right now bc still getting in the swing of work. Good thing I was right though.
Dodooododoodo, seems like a pretty sufficiently good wagon. Glad you guys pushed that over. Would have probably joined it had I been around.
I don't really like Albertino's entrance, seems really forced and more like trying to fake getting thread involved than actually trying to dive into the game (my inclination from their last few posts).
Tom doubting me is fine but I'm hardly reading his posts because that caps thing has somehow actually transitioned into me getting headaches whenever I read it lol. It's too much.
Dan's claim is NAI but I still think that him being on the wagon vs not keeps him alive today.
Vezok's confidence when Albertino threatened to CC was good imo, lean towny there.
The worst/tom interactions were pretty towny as well imo. Game is probably just as easy as it looks.
Stupid delay ***** making my ***** useless. Life goes on.
I kinda feel like there could've been a vote in this post
any reason you didn't?
I don't have anything good to say quite yet, it's 10am and I haven't had coffee yet
did he crumb who he might've targeted?
also vote: vezok let's get some drama goin
NO IDEA WHAT HE'D DO
How about the fact vez soft cc'd a flipped town role? Do you think scum!vez would do that?
I will add that nothing has yet happened with Dan's ability as far as I have been notified.
I don't read a lot into Killma's comment about vez - if they're wolves together it was p obvious at that point that the only play was to crossbus/distance and it wasn't a very strong anti associative comment so I'm pretty comfortable with that.
and yes, the way he cc'd was really shaky. like "there's a part of my role which proves he doesn't exist" and then proceeding to the actual claim which....... does no such thing........ is really wolfy. it's more like he was trying to drive a final nail into GJ's coffin than actually counterclaim from a solving point of view if that makes sense?
I guess the GJ nk and the apparent high likelihood that he was selected as the nightkill rather than directing it to himself is probably the #1 thing working in the favour of town!vez but I still think thru the WIFOM he just reads as aligned with Killma and not aligned with GJ.
all the same point taken, better places to focus atm
vote: Kami
VOTE: MANASI
RE: Questions it.
Tom: immediately votes killma, just says “w/v”.
Vezok: neutral / “informative” comment on killma
G_d: posts that Killma feels like newb town, also prods with “why apologetic”
Killma pulls off of RE
RE questions Killma more
Tom asserts Killma scum -> RE town
The_worst hypothesis (light): re/killma T/T
RE still hard on Killma. Not pushing a lynch, but forcing questions to be answered.
Backs off after gets answers.
Cantrip asks Killma about experience.
Killma answers partly
Cantrip probes further
Killma answers more detail
ReverseRoot puts Killma in town pile, no reasoning
Vezok asks killma: who would you vig?
Killma waffles on Mikey/GJ
Vezok links Mikey and Killma: Mikey scum -> Killma scum
RE votes Killma
Killma shades vezok and RE
RE disagrees with Mikey-Killma link, but thinks Killma independently scummy
RE suggests Kill/Vez team
Cantrip suggests me/manasi/Killma targets for scumhunting
Killma “reads”: GJ scum, Tom hard to read, RE town, Vezok scummy - the “jumping wagons” line here.
Vezok jumps on the “jumping wagons”
The_worst questions Killma’s meta read on RE.
Dan asserts Killma is fencesitting, notes scum read alongside Vez, GJ, me.
GJ votes Killma
Cantrip votes Killma
The_worst has Killma in scumreads, above {me + vezok}
Vezok wants to focus on GJ and Killma
Tom has Killma as low confidence scum with Vezok (above GJ+Dan+Worst)
Vezok, points out more negatives on Killma
Manasi asks for interaction context with Killma
RE, Vezok give Manasi answers/summaries
The_worst questions lack of wagon on Killma
The_worst votes Killma
Tom votes Killma
Dan FoS Killma, no reasoning
Dan votes Killma
vezok votes Killma
My conclusions:
RE is about as lock town as you can get. First on the wagon and stays on it; pushing Killma from the start.
In general, seems like RE, GJ and Cantrip are the "seed votes" enabled the wagon to form. GJ is known town so irrelevant; some town points for Cantrip, notably because the competing GJ wagon was at L-1 or L-2 here, so this was a "turning point" for the wagon inertia.
Null on those who came on the wagon later, when it already had weight; those actions are 50/50 town or bussing.
Most interesting is Killma/Vezok. I initially thought it was odd that the "jumping wagons" thing got pounced on but with no vote, and Vezok doesn't actually vote until hammer. I was wondering if this was scum capitalization - throwing Killma to the wolves, maybe even the whole "slip" was a ploy. But on reviewing the timing, this is impossible; the turning-point votes didn't come until after that, Killma only had one vote at the time. So this was a natural reaction. Therefore this looks like a town Vezok.
The only interactions I dislike: Killma had Tom as "hard to read". Given that Killma seemed to be trying really hard just to not make a blunder, this seems like where they would have wanted to put a scumbuddy.
Resulting reads: Very strong town RE, strong town Vezok, moderately town Cantrip. Slight scumlean on Tom.
There are also the players who didn't interact with Killma in any meaningful way - Manasi, kpaca, ReverseRoot. Notably these are also all three heavily lurking. Need to shine a light here.
@KA: Great analysis on the killma interactions. I have some thoughts to give.
- I think killma parroted the thread when he said tom is hard to read. He didn't want to commit on a hard read, but needed padding for his read list. I think he didn't put any scum there because he was afraid to interact with them.
- His interactions with the_worst feel like scum trying to distance each other, but it's really inconclusive.
- I think ReverseRoot slot needs scrutiny as his townread for no reason on killma is eyebrow raising.
Also sorry I was wrong about you mikey.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
IDK KINDA MAKES SENSE AS A PLANNED BUS + FRAMING PEOPLE ON THE GJ WAGON OBVIOUSLY KILLMAS BUDDIES WEREN'T EXPECTING HIM TO ENDGAME THIS *****.
I THOUGHT DAN LOOKED THE MOST LIKE A BUS BUT LESS SO IN THE WORLD WHERE THEY PLANNED IT.
REALLY LOOKS LIKE HE KNEW HE WAS LATE.
AND NOW I'M REMEMBERING THE WORST TRYING TO ATTACK ME FOR VOTING KILLMA WITH HIM BUT I BRUSHED IT OFF PRETTY THOROUGHLY LOL.
ANYWAY I STARTED THIS THINKING I'D QUESTION SCUMREADING CANTRIP BUT YEAH IF BUS WAS PLANNED HIM AND THE WORST SEEMS VIABLE
STILL THINK THIS HOLDS, ESPECIALLY WITH KILLMA BEING SO INEXPERIENCED IN THIS KIND OF MAFIA AND THIS BEING SO EARLY IN THE GAME. JUST SUCH A NATURAL THING TO SAY ABOUT A TOWNIE FOR NOOB SCUM.
GONNA MAKE THIS A HARD CLEAR
IT ALSO REMINDED ME OF:
WHICH IS EVEN SCUMMIER WITH KILLMA FLIPPING SCUM. HE WANTED THAT TO BE A DICHOTOMY AND PUSH RE FIRST. THIS NARRATIVE DEFINITELY WORKS WITH THE VIBE OF HIS KILLMA VOTE.
VOTE: DAN
STILL LIKE THIS BETTER, BUT WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM CANTRIP.
+1
kinda wanted to see a vote in there but I think Kami is very clearly town after that insight
ah
yas
sweet
How may I be of service?
I was waiting for you to post. I actually targeted RE with my ability. Out of the 12 possible abilities it could rand on it actually went to normalize so at least everyone knows what that does.
Something strange happened though. Osie said at first I used it on RE, then on KA and then on ganderin_dan. It was probably just a honest mistake, but I wanted to share the info.
I'm not sure what to think of this redirect, but I think it comes from either tom or another town who believed tom and thought both me and dan are scum.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I chose another player during the day, then we played rock, paper, scissors. RE won, and as a result, any non-killing actions that targeted RE last night were redirected to me. If I were to have won the game, the effects would have been reversed.
Now that I have been normalized, I am an Asceticiser.
---
Me
Vezok (this role doesn't seem like it belongs on a Mafia member [net improvement, but not a strict upgrade)
RE
Cantrip
The Worst (I think the overNight posting further improved his standing, it feels like he's organically reacting and continuing to worldbuild)
KA/Tom (nothing damning, just not as towny as above individuals)
Manasi/Kpaca (blank)
PoE currently suggests RR slot.
---
I understand how my vote could be interpreted as bussing, and that's definitely in scum!Dan's wheelhouse. The only counterargument I have is that I don't think it would've been difficult to push a deadline lynch through on GJ/mikey given the circumstances, or for my to just not be here (and really I shouldn't have been, as I was driving, but w/e). But WIFOM.
I agree with Tom that idt GJ would’ve used Hero that early. Hell, I probably wouldn’t use it at all outside of very narrow circumstances where there’s both a mechanically confirmed townie and we’re in some specific 5-7 player range where I have high odds of targeting scum, AND living neighbors to tell who I’m intending to target that I trusted.
Echoing the sentiments by the town liking KA’s analysis. This strongly aligns with my current reads.
---
@worst With the GJ flip, does that change your opinion that both scum were/not on the Mikey wagon? I also disagree with you regarding town!vez based on the NK. Having been scumbuddies with him in Friendly Neighbors, I know that as scum he places a premium on private communication. What makes you think the GJ nk gives him the town credit?
@RE I think no news is good news on my ability use on you. I also think that given the context of Vezok’s CC, while I also wouldn’t have advised it, lends him some towncred. What makes you think the Cantrip/worst interactions were forced/distancing? Can you provide examples?
Also, would you rank the members on Killma’s wagon, if you think both scum members are on it?
@Vezok What makes you think the worst/kilma interactions were distancing? Can you provide examples?
I'd love to see you try lol.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
The worst has not answered this question and I still don't really know what he meant by this.
Question from the worst to killman. Not exactly sure if it means anything, but I added it here. Seems like a safe question.
A small townread on killman. Not that out of place, but still a bit weird.
Here the worst reinforces his killman town read, but claims it's what came to him in a dream. Seems extremely non-commital.
This post seems to try to white knight mikey's lynch.
As I said nothing it remotely indicative of scum here so I'm going to move the worst up into my townreads and leave it at that.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
The answer is that I've been lynched day 1 or close to that in the last few games I've been. At the time I didn't really want to get wagoned yet again for "HUR DURR vezok is scum for absolutely no reason"
My re-read has also strengthen my ReverseRoot scumread. I have also gained a cantrip scumread independently of the RR scumread and their relation is also kinda bad.
Cantrip has some really safe post considering how day 1 went.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I don't have much to comment. I fully believe you.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I THINK THIS IGNORES A CRAZY AMOUNT. IT'S LITERALLY JUST "EARLY ON THE WAGON IS +TOWN"
EXCEPT FOR ME BEING THE FIRST VOTE, WHICH IS ALSO IGNORED.
OTHER THAN THAT IT'S MOSTLY JUST DATA, THOUGH I LIKE THE VEZOK BIT.
OVERALL THINK IT'S A MEDIOCRE POST, AND I JUST KNEEJERKED TO THE ME BIT. I FEEL LIKE KAMI HAS JUST BEEN SCUMREADING ME FOR PLAYSTYLE AND FORCED LOOKING CRAP LIKE "OH HE SAID TOM IS HARD TO READ" AS IF THAT'S NOT LITERALLY THE PREVAILING READ ON ME GAMEWIDE SO EVERYONE IS MY BUDDY OR SOME *****. BUT THAT DESCRIBES MY ENTIRE MEMORY OF PLAYING WITH KAMI AND I KEEP EXPECTING IT TO EVOLVE AND IT DOESN'T.
ANYWAY THE POINT OF THIS IS I THINK VEZOK DID LIKE IT BUT ADDED TO IT WHICH LOOKS TOWNIE TO ME, AND DAN:
I THINK SCUMDAN JUST MISREAD SARCASM AND SAW TOWNKAMI MAKE A LOT OF EFFORT THAT SOME TOWNIES RESPONDED POSITIVELY TO AND PRAISED IT.
BUT ALSO IM SORT OF UNHAPPY WITH THOSE READS AND I'M ACTUALLY MORE LIKE
RE
*HUGE ******* MESS*
DAN
I COULD CLEAN IT UP A LITTLE WITH, LIKE, VEZOK/KAMI/ROOT BEING A HIGHER TIER THAN THE REST OF THE MESS BUT I'M SO MEH ON ALL 3 THEY DON'T EVEN FEEL LIKE TOWNREADS JUST QUESTION MARKS IN A VAGUELY HOPEFUL FONT
RE
VEZ/KAMI/ROOT
*MEDIUM SIZE MESS*
DAN
THAT'S... YEAH OTHER THAN LIGHTGREEN NOT BEING LIGHT ENOUGH THAT'S ABOUT ILL IVE GOT RIGHT NOW.
How do you figure? I don't really feel trapped. Just really terrible at checking games right now bc still getting in the swing of work. Good thing I was right though.
Gentleman Johnny (4) - kpaca, ReverseRoot, Killmatronix, KamikazeArchon
vezokpiraka (1) - Manasi
Dodooododoodo, seems like a pretty sufficiently good wagon. Glad you guys pushed that over. Would have probably joined it had I been around.
I don't really like Albertino's entrance, seems really forced and more like trying to fake getting thread involved than actually trying to dive into the game (my inclination from their last few posts).
Tom doubting me is fine but I'm hardly reading his posts because that caps thing has somehow actually transitioned into me getting headaches whenever I read it lol. It's too much.
Dan's claim is NAI but I still think that him being on the wagon vs not keeps him alive today.
Vezok's confidence when Albertino threatened to CC was good imo, lean towny there.
The worst/tom interactions were pretty towny as well imo. Game is probably just as easy as it looks.
Stupid delay ***** making my ***** useless. Life goes on.
Cantripmancer (1) - RE1031
ganderin_dan (1) - tomsloger
KamikazeArchon (1) - the worst
vezokpiraka (1) - AlbertinoDias
Not voting: Cantripmancer, ganderin_dan, KamikazeArchon, kpaca, Manasi
Day 2 Lynch Deadline will be Thursday, October 11th at 1800 MST. There will be a Twilight period (No voting) of 5-16 hours to account for the host having a life outside of Mafia.
With 10 players, it takes 6 to lynch.
Kpaca has 2 hours to post content or I will seek replacement.
I think all of these posts ESPECIALLY the first one point to those two NOT being partners. Pretty sure Vezok would feel NO pressure to respond that aggressively against one of his buddies. For lack of a better term, it was almost too sassy to be a partner interaction imo.
I guess i could see Dan swinging by like that if Kami is like.. either alignment
I kinda feel like there could've been a vote in this post
any reason you didn't?
were they? how do you figure?