And just in case, I'll clarify, I didn't ask to discourage your vote entirely. I think there's a decent chance Marko is scum.
One more thing: why is Tubba's read on Grape more significant than his "I'd vote Osie", from your perspective?
DUDE ROBIK IS THE MAN just mentioning him gives me the good stuff.
I think his vote on grape is what shaped his slot for me, because of his long term play with him. It's more important than thinking of voting osie because imo everyone should have the thought of voting osie rn but I'm obviously BIAS. It's more that everything else didn't ping me, at least from what I remember right now. I don't really know how to explain this read very well since it's mostly tonal and gut but I really feel like he's town. At least for right now I'd be okay with not focusing or lynching him but maybe I'm wrong. I do have too many town and he's someone I should probably solidify but ******* SHRUG I feel it in my bones.
And just in case, I'll clarify, I didn't ask to discourage your vote entirely. I think there's a decent chance Marko is scum.
One more thing: why is Tubba's read on Grape more significant than his "I'd vote Osie", from your perspective?
DUDE ROBIK IS THE MAN just mentioning him gives me the good stuff.
I think his vote on grape is what shaped his slot for me, because of his long term play with him. It's more important than thinking of voting osie because imo everyone should have the thought of voting osie rn but I'm obviously BIAS. It's more that everything else didn't ping me, at least from what I remember right now. I don't really know how to explain this read very well since it's mostly tonal and gut but I really feel like he's town. At least for right now I'd be okay with not focusing or lynching him but maybe I'm wrong. I do have too many town and he's someone I should probably solidify but ******* SHRUG I feel it in my bones.
vote = read
Marko what's good my dude please be available right now let's rap
@SRage your big wagon on me is two votes... And saying you started it while accurate misses that it was RE and Foopme who were vocally expressing suspicion of me, you just asked RE to vote me with you after a post that usually has a vote in it.
There's something just completely off with the perspective on this post
You can join us on Grape then. Right now, I think he has a >50% chance of being scum. Not as high as the fake scarlet but we need wagon pressure.
While we are rather relaxed about multiposting rules here in mafia subforum, aggressive multiposting (more than 3 posts in a row within short span of time and posts not really contributing to the game) will lead to warnings.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
While we are rather relaxed about multiposting rules here in mafia subforum, aggressive multiposting (more than 3 posts in a row within short span of time and posts not really contributing to the game) will lead to warnings.
Wtf is this?
Empoof I just watched the end of your minimafia game and I have zero idea what just happened. Can you explain it?
Depends on which game, the one I was scum was weird since we randomly lynched a town day 1 and it was a setup where we could suicide bomb so it basically just left me in final 4 and someone spewed themselves town -> we slept -> I just said random words and didn't get lynched. The game that just ended had a scared doctor (who loses powers on claim) and a macho cop (can't be saved) and I was medic alive with a green check in f4 and we chose correctly
I had titus as town because the people I view as lower end of the game just... aren't really with her. She'd be on a team with tubba or maybe marko but she's pushed on ScarletCelestial with intent, she pushed on grapefruit with intent, she had a really weird interaction with osie that didn't feel scum/scum. So she's left with like ara/marko/tubba/voxx/RE and I town read RE/ara/tubba/voxx and warming up to marko so it's kind of just... left by herself.
if osie and grapefruit are both town she becomes a more viable option but her team would still be in like torb(? don't remember if they interacted)/RE/marko/tubba/voxx. Forgot about the ara pushing titus thing felt not like a partner push so.
And yeah I was v reading those 3, probably my strongest reads? The titus read is also me just trying out day 1 world building more structurally and I like it.
I noticed a really villagery flip flop from RE on me.
To go from 'lock scum' to 'not as bad as I thought' without me posting in between comes across as a really natural progression based on re-read that is a pretty hard mindset to fake.
Now I feel bad for saying there's a decent chance of you being scum...
~~~
(last day of work at summer camp... then i can post even more!!!!)
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Sorry, I've been pretty preoccupied, first with the game I was hosting (that ScarletCelestial was in) and also with another game that I was in that just ended a few hours ago, so hopefully can focus mostly on this game!!
Still feel fairly disconnected though, but going to try to get a better grasp of the game moving forward - basically just defenestrating all but four of my reads out the window because I can't remember why I made them anymore, so here's where I'm starting at now:
Tammy
RE1031
Empoof
Osieorb - slightly more town than neutral
Scarlet Rage (note that much of this read is sheeped from my team) - You've been fairly passive/agreeable this game, too much so; the placation of it is not something that I/we're really expecting from your game here!! Also, I initially wanted to townlean you for your VCA stuff earlier, but actually looking at it, there's not as much based on it as I'd expect; a lot of it's based off of just RVS votes, which is ??? Would definitely expect you to be pushing your views all over the thread more as town!!
I think I'm going to ISO other people to try and get a read on them better instead of rereading the game and likely just ending up having my eyes glaze over; I'll probably start with the top wagon then go from lowest posters up, but feel free to suggest a person to ISO!!!!
Hi Ara.
One of the biggest wagons, grapefruit is started by me. You are currently chainsawing (rai) my ScarletCelestial vote. So just what more would you think I would need to do to push my views? That feels so divorced from the actual context
Second, the expectation itself seems fallacious. As town or scum, you are well aware of how vocal I am.
rai? Not sure what you mean by chainsawing ScarletCelestial - shouldn't I technically be chainsawing you on Grapefruit? Sorry, not entirely sure what you're getting at on that point!
Whether there's a wagon on your suspect or not has nothing to do with your alignment in terms of the push (okay it might because you push it differently but that's beside the point) - the point isn't about how effective you are or not in pushing your views, it's about how you've been pushing your views!!!
You're actually not as vocal as mafia in the same way, and definitely not like here; you're less stubborn, anyway!!
ria should be regardless of alignment. I ran it together in my head with not alignment indicative.
A chainsaw is when you attack a person voting another person. In this case, you voted me after my vote on Scarlet and did not like my scarlet push.
I don’t remember telling anyone this game I didn’t care about their read on anyone. That’s not very characteristic of me in general; I rarely even say that to people about their read on nacho. I didn’t mean to give that impression. We have different reads and I’m unlikely to change my mind right now, but that doesn’t mean I’m like I don’t care about your read because at the very least in helps my read on you.
I didn’t read all of that post just saw my name when I was scrolling down to reply to Empoof real quick before crashing.
Empoof - you did very clearly state why that irritated you; I was just a bit surprised that it did. I do completely understand getting frustrated by stuff in mafia. That was happening to me all last year for several reasons, but I took a long break after wild cards last year and I’ve been trying to change my emotional investment in games so that I get less bothered by things. I’m not always successful but win some/lose some.
Good night thread!
Night tammy. SOrry that it surprised you, it's just how I operate. I've been ****ed over by too many people from AtE and it's honestly just a garbage way to read the game and I'm slightly upset he's getting townreads for it since it reenforces the idea. I think I should have taken a break after both the smogon game and [ongoing] but here I am and I'm going to do my best (I guess... this isn't really my best but I'm here I guess) to push the game in the right direction
ATE can definitely be a tricky thing to read and I've definitely seen some players use it to their advantage to get a win, but not everything that has emotion in it is actual ATE. So if Osie is scum, that post is ATE and he's probably drawing on past frustration of getting mislynched to appeal here in hopes it will help. If he's town, he's probably not purposefully trying to ATE but is just expressing some frustration that he feels. The two get confused a lot because it's hard to tell the difference. (This little segue of sorts only really matters to me because I've been accused of ATE a lot when it's almost always because I'm feeling some way and that comes through my posts and not as a tactic.)
On that note - Osie - can you talk a little bit more about your Titus read? And also the two empoof reads that I asked about before?
[quote from="Foopme »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/796111-team-mafia-game-3-monster-manual-mafia-day-1?comment=631"]
As for why I'm not voting you, it's for similar reasons to ScarletC. More of a threshold for me to be wrong. Plus Grape is just on a whole other tier of scumminess than you. I'm not really sure why you think that's a good question when I've made it clear my preference has been Grape this whole time.
Despite us walling at each other you've mostly been talking to me like you believe I'm town and not been throwing out little comments calling me scum for the most part.
I overdid it at the gym yesterday then lay outside in the sun for most of the day and got burned alive
I'm in so much pain right now :|
@Tammy, what was the last game we played together, just out of interest. I have this feeling that we've clashed a few times in the past but not recently
I'm pretty sure the last game we played together was the First Law game. I've only played a couple games at MU since that game, and that's the one I went back to look at last week to get a reminder of your town game. I don't remember clashing with you to much that game. I was Rudd Threetrees in that game and I think you suspected me some but I town read you decently strong. You were cranky, and you might have been one of the people telling me I was't critically thinking in my reads and then when I explained it would be like yeah that sounds good actually? I might have gotten frustrated with you a bit; I was really needing a break from mafia at that point. Though I was only around for day one because nacho ate me that night and was pretending to be me for a couple days, so if you clashed with me those days you didn't actually clash with me. I think you were scum the other maybe two times we played.
Unless by clash you mean just play together then yes we have a few times I think but not since the first law game.
Shoot. My long post seems to not have posted. I'll go fix that in a bit.
@Empoof: Mixed. Some of my thoughts there I'm not going to comment on until after the game for reasons (Team/Mod communication-related), but in terms of reading you, after a decent amount of wine it's a slight positive since it's more likely to come from town. Doesn't push my read on you significantly, but it's something.
@Tammy: I'll see if I can restore the post where I answered that.
I don't believe there has been any wagon movement since VC 1.7. If this is in error, please notify me via PM or Discord DM and I will edit this post to be VC 1.8.
Problems with this vote count? PM me or DM me on Discord for the fastest response. Posting something in-thread will probably get my attention eventually.
I was going to keep this private until I reached 300 but I'm tired and not that coherent right now so I'm going to post this now just in case I sound insane in anything else I write, and this thread is moving faster than I can backlog. (This is up to 295) (Still haven't gotten to where Marko and Ara appear)
Encyclopedia Celestia Volume 2:
Scarlet Rage
39 - No thoughts.
43 - Not going after Trob is a good thing, unless one flips scum. I feel like scum would’ve taken any read they could’ve gotten right about then.
94 - Ignoring Tammy feeling for better pursuits is more productive and thereby Townier than if they tried to talk to them forever and still coming to no conclusion. Getting worried that they’re not trying to pursue anything yet though, and even talking to Tammy would generate more content to read Titus by.
96 - Would’ve been nicer if they elaborated on how those thoughts differed.
100 - I think it depends on how it manifests itself later in the game. The enthusiasm would likely waver throughout the game. I don’t think Titus has thought through this fully.
103 - Thought this was odd but probably my own fault for thinking that. It’s OK.
107 - Easy thing for scum to be Townread over, but I still somewhat like that they’re trying to drag Tubba into the game.
109 - I don’t agree that Day 1 is random, I have played many Light games where this is not so. However, this is a difference in play rather than anything else so meh. This doesn’t tell me anything AI I believe.
120 - I like their pointing out the issue of osie’s read, but likely a little worse since it’s about an issue concerning them. I don’t feel either way about this, except that it sounds somewhat pointy.
121 - lol but IDK why.
123 - I don’t feel like Titus is looking for the motivation in Tammy’s posting here, nor are they trying to understand why they would say they liked osie’s post. The question I feel isn’t the most relevant thing they could’ve asked.
126 - Sounds like this is a question that would help Titus: very related to their life’s work. I’m giving it a good.
133 - Weird flip flop on Tammy seeing as they haven’t really presented any case or tried to converse with them about it (though the latter may be more understandable seeing as Tammy is Tammy). Their vote was for the reason I thought it was so that’s OK. Again, I don’t think they’re trying to empathise with others.
157 - Mentions they have little confidence in their read (but still manages to have them as scum?) but accepting the olive branch is probably a good sign. Saying they’re bad at looking at intentions also makes me feel better about prior actions.
162 - No thoughts.
172 - Don’t exactly get why they interceived my questions (and late on top of it all). Says that gut cannot be fathomed: I interpreted it as Tammy trying to compare this game with another and could fathom it (they did). I can get why they would question asking about gut though. Them feeling burdened by what I said saddens me, but seeing as that it could possibly come from scum trying to pocket Titus it is a good question.
177 - No thoughts - it was removed by mod.
217 - Requesting vote counts does suggest they are trying to keep track of the voting like they said before.
239 - I still stand by my comment about how if I don’t understand something I’ll ask about it. Somewhat defensive, but likely because they felt threatened by what I was saying (although what I said was well-intended). Feel like they should have waited and seen if I did criticise their mistakes but that’s just being nitpicky.
240 - IDK how it gives good data but meh she’s the expert.
242 - My issues with this come from them not trying to vote anybody that they scumread (which I don’t think they had at that point so really this is moot, but they did have issues with me so they could have voted me).
243 - No thoughts.
256 - Trying to prod Tubba into the game is good. Feel like this is a bit of a reaction test as well, which plays to their strengths.
258 - Also feels like she’s laying reaction test bait.
262 - Trying to poke people into helping them is a good look I think.
264 - I was thinking the same thing but it’s an easy thing to wonder about so meh.
266 - No thoughts.
270 - I can see how Titus is constructing their work here, which I rather reject from the depths of my soul because I hate preflip association most of the time (especially after Frostpunk), but I think this suggests they are trying to solve this game. Though with their grouping there it’s certainly no more than 2/3 and even then unlikely.
Foopme
15 - Wut.
16 - Wut.
17 - Wut.
20 - Empoof has been smoking. Don’t know what. But something.
21 - Wut.
23 - Empoof has noticed the weirdness of that too. Nice.
24 - No thoughts.
26 - IDK how he got to Tammy = Town just from eggs.
27 - No thoughts.
28 - No thoughts.
29 - I’d prefer it if they gave us their thoughts from this.
51 - But he posts. I was in April Fools Mash where he was scum. I was in Anni where he was Town. And I was very wrong.
54 - Seems a distant way of saying he’s being scumread, but I think I must probe first.
57 - Again, seems like 54 but even more shady.
58 - No thoughts.
61 - I don’t think scum are confident to claim scum unless they have a really good suicide bomber backup plan.
75 - Meme. Think it’s supposed to represent squinting. May suggest they’re taking the meta lightheartedly.
79 - It looks like Empoof is embarrassed, so it may be masking any underlying emotions. Creatures Mash I was more confident in due to it being before I had Town meta so I don’t think it’s as representative as a scum game than Waking Life (which I still think is my best) or Mountainous Madness. Being disconcerted about the posting thing can come from either alignment. Wondering why they care about how RE is read.
80 - I like this. It feels honest.
82 - Starts good gets weird. Missing me.
84 - Still looks like they don’t care about being scumread, but it’s not exactly AI.
98 - I like that he’s trying to get Voxx to address their issue. Don’t like that he’s trying to get him to shelve it if it’s on himself. Nice question to RE, but based on area of expertise it was probably better given to Titus.
104 - No thoughts.
173 - I do not know what I am supposed to get out of this. It’s bad. It’s just plain bad.
184 - Makes me think that the read on me is more AI to him, no clue how being smart is AI though.
189 - No AI thoughts. I drool in my sleep sometimes…
192 - No clue how this is supposed to help determine alignments.
195 - No thoughts.
196 - No thoughts.
198 - Finally a glimmer of an actual read. Not exactly comprehensive and it’s an odd thing to pick out though. Tammy read is consistent with prior posting.
229 - Them not going after Ara is likely a good thing: posting amount is too easy to go through. Engagement is not that good a reason to Town read someone though I think. It’s better in the case of Tammy’s and my own read as it was explained before, but there’s no elaboration on Trob.
231 - He isn’t saying Townread him for it, so that’s a good thing. (I think?)
235 - No thoughts.
236 - Meh. I feel something may be off with this I just can’t place it.
237 - I can’t see any benefit as to why someone would try to show off their scum game as scum. (I have caught two people in the past just because they avoided giving me a scum game - Blackjak in May Light 2.0 and Duk3star in Frostpunk) and RE never fell back on posting (she actually posted more and more).
244 - Empoof denying something that was quoted is not ideal. But they weren’t ever in the background either? I have no clue why he has a thought like this. The smart thing is pissing me off.
246 - Like why does he do this. Stubbornness has nothing to do with voting a 0 poster and it isn’t doing anything…
248 - No comment.
250 - No comment.
265 - And he’s remembered about the Grape CFD.
268 - What happened with the stubbornness… also pleasing people. Bad.
269 - lol.
271 - He has seemed somewhat bored with the game thus far. Need further evidence of changing personality.
276 - Trying to be helpful is always nice, but NAI.
283 - No AI thoughts. Can I have cookies?
Osieorb18
111 - I get a bad feeling from this post. His read on Grape is probably the most questionable. Besides that the reads on Trob and RE feels empty, Tammy’s is based on playstyle rather than anything AI, the cons seem to outweigh the issues concerning Empoof and my read is seems the most explained but I am defended quite quickly by them even for it.
114 - Vote seems justified by the state of the readlist.
116 - Don’t know why they’re noting the reads they don’t like, feels like they’re trying to impose their own theory.
127 - I feel like osie twisted the meaning of Titus’ post here somewhat. They only had lingering doubt that I think Town would have when trying to make a decision on alignment. But, I can also see the issue concerning the non-poster from their perspective. First part bad.
128 - Agree, but hypocritical.
178 - Good point.
179 - Shows reevaluation. (Seems like it may be to please Voxx though?)
180 - Seems mildly disconcerted here, but understandable as either alignment… if RE was not making a general statement. Seems too defensive as such. See RE1031 181 for more info.
203 - The explanation makes me wonder why they bothered saying about their opening in their read of RE.
204 - Feels rather dismissive and disgusted here. Definitely doesn’t like my read of osie.
205 - Reads rather weird to me. Says that they don’t know their personality (despite explanations prior to this) but says it’s scummy anyway. Doesn’t try to defend their actions and instead jumps to calling the vote OMGUS. Breaking up the quote also makes the vote look worse than it is (since the top quote was also issues they had with osie.)
206 - No AI thoughts. Both microwaving and boiling bacon is gross.
220 - That was the only game I played with osie and it wasn’t due to tone alone: it was to do with bs mechanical claims. And the second half of that paragraph isn’t even to do with me. First half is misrepresentation the second half is NAI.
223 - “I like that she’s reading my posts” ??? Isn’t that kinda expected… (in their defence I have been kinda flaky this game.) They don’t come to any conclusions on anything bar Trob, and even then what they’re pointing out wasn’t done by them in the first place. (They did read me off my early posts.) I don’t like this.
284 - Ignores the second half of the issue, but the first reply is OK.
285 - Sheeping RE, not adding anything to the case.
RE1031
32 - RE feels so REy. Nothing off, nothing wrong. Providing a scum game is a good look, in my experience scum avoid trying to give up their games.
34 - No productive thoughts.
38 - I like the reasoning they give, because I agree with what they’re saying. People should create their own thoughts on what they think of people.
42 - I don’t think RE really knows what they want to say here.
66 - I like how they picked up on the same issue as I.
81 - Reason to share meta comes from a place that recognises the needs of Town: that meta may be required in order to gain an insight into personality and temperaments.
83 - Probably saw 82 and was like ‘huh, they’re doing a readlist so I’ll do a readlist’. Although slightly prompted, it probably just didn’t come to them to do one this early. Don’t get why a generic entrance leads to a scumlean, do get that’s it likely they got put there for not doing anything after said generic entrance. Also, based on this it is somewhat odd that they took Empoof’s read of me and used it. Not scummy, just weird humaney stuff.
90 - Like the elaboration on Tubba, and the fact that they read through multiple games of Empoof’s to try and get a further feel for how he acts as scum.
95 - I kinda wonder why there is the best place to vote Empoof, but it was coming.
97 - I think that Titus wasn’t necessarily referring to Tammy, but the inference isn’t a leap.
99 - No thoughts.
101 - RE doesn’t explain what that something is at this point, but I’m guessing because it’s pretty unexplainable gut.
102 - Like this.
108 - Like this too.
110 - No thoughts.
118 - Elaborating on what they said earlier about why they said they’d give meta suggests they were being very truthful about that.
129/130 - Excited because they think they just caught osie out: Townie. Scum RE I feel would be trying to sound more rational about it rather than excited.
137 - Don’t really have any thoughts on it. Like their basic read, though.
141 - lol and honest.
146 - Good thought due to thinking about mindstate and quotes are horrible anyway.
147 - I’d like to see a conclusion about this, but yeah this is a Town RE thought.
156 - Gut reading me as scum based on feeling different about my play could be explained by them only knowing how I play as Town without knowing my scum meta well and me treating this game differently to usual.
163 - No AI thoughts. Personally, I think that Empoof ignoring the scumreads isn’t that bad if no one defends him, as it would suggest that it’d matter not to him if he were lynched which scum would inherently avoid.
165 - No thoughts.
174 - RE following up on things suggest that it’s important to her that it is answered and comes from a general Townie mindset.
175 - Like this.
176 - No thoughts. At this point I give up trying to read RE - I already think they’re Town and that’s not changing, so from here on is any thoughts I may agree with concerning their posts or disagree with.
181 - Agree here, add to that that osie locked onto a certain piece of information that would have them scumread rather than Townread, which suggests a certain level of paranoia which I think scum would be more likely to have.
183 - No thoughts.
186 - No thoughts that haven’t already been said.
188 - No thoughts.
190 - Accurate, but that’s mainly from me feeling way out of my depth in this game.
191 - I wish I could fall asleep on the bus… I’m too scared to miss my stop.
199 - RE I’m colouring this red and it’s not do with this game but my game was ongoing at the time so you shouldn’t have been talking about it at all.
200 - Tunnel vision sweetie.
202 - No thoughts.
215 - I could’ve sworn I was in game with you where you were scum at some point because I remember being very frustrated that I didn’t really look at you. Though I might’ve just read part of that game and thought I played with you. I would say it was overblown, but for comedic effect. Directed questions at Tammy and Titus because I had to start somewhere and I thought asking the same questions that had already been done wouldn’t be of any help.
216 - No thoughts.
224 - No thoughts.
228 - No thoughts.
230 - How the **** do I keep missing questions…
234 - I agree with the questions.
238 - Well, I think we did end up discussing whether it was a good thing to actually vote a 0 poster or not and the reasons as to why it was done…
241 - No thoughts.
245 - No thoughts.
247 - No comment.
249 - No comment.
252 - I don’t think is tone is different to how I’ve seen it before?
257 - I feel like this is kinda passive aggressive.
259 - No thoughts.
261 - No thoughts.
263 - Kinda wondering what they think the TMI is, malicious vote intent lol.
265 - I like this case. Also wondering what they have thought of Grape in past experience.
Trobairitz
4 - I like that they’re trying to get to solving quickly, especially since I’m an easy read for Sheep.
9 - I don’t think they’re intentionally lying here, self-meta tends to be skewed in some sort of direction (like how I think my Town game is GOAT) but they don’t really say much about it. They don’t give away any of their scum game weaknesses. I think this post suggests they value consensus and the power of friendship.
11 - No thoughts apart from them having more experience in this setup may mean that they are more equipped if they are scum.
13 - I think this is an accurate depiction of their meta with how they are describing it, so being more truthful suggests Town.
9/13 - Does give the weaknesses of their Town game but not the weaknesses of their scum game.
18 - Ara level of hype for Titus feels off.
36 - I don’t think they can explain their read of myself or Tammy but it aligns with what they say about their meta. Like them questioning Grape.
40 - I completely disagree with the ideology but I can see what sort of place it comes from. Whilst voting with a Townread would mean you’d never get pocketed, there’s points where Townies can just be very wrong. One game everybody thought this guy called Blakjak was Town and I tunneled him all Day 1. I was the one who got killed Night 1. Basically, I like to try and take a bit of both ideologies, I try not to vote with scumreads if I can help it, but I wouldn’t follow my Townreads just because either.
44 - If it’s something that scum should do quickly then why is it in any way Townie?
53 - I want to say something about this but I have nothing to say. Everything seems like a gut read from Trob up to this point, as opposed to things that can actually be explained.
55 - No thoughts.
56 - No thoughts.
59 - No thoughts.
65 - Questioning whether they’re scared or not is likely better than a flat out answer. A false vote of confidence wouldn’t be stated as a question.
69 - I like this truthful approach.
77 - Something that isn’t gut finally. I like how they’re trying to analyse my mindset in that, though trying to analyse page 1 isn’t always the greatest idea. Townreading me this much early on may suggest Town though: scum really need scumreads rather than Townreads. Their holding off on Empoof but liking him also contributes to this thought.
78 - Thought gap lol. Stuff like missing out words comes from trying to think and type at the same time and it going wrong. Scum have something in mind before typing and would be less likely to do that.
85 - Don’t like that they dropped trying to get on to Grape’s case, but I don’t really get the read in the first place. Um… don’t get their Voxx case either. Voting based on the absence of Towniness would be a good move at this point, but they don’t actually do it at this point.
86 - No thoughts.
87 - Votes Marko but I can’t really understand the motivation behind it.
89 - Understands that being wrong =/= alignment. That’s a good thing depending on how they implement this belief in what they do.
143 - I agree with what they say here and I think they’re saying it because there’s something off with Titus.
145 - I don’t know why they would say this, but I think it comes from a Townie place?
155 - Very flowing stream of consciousness, their paragraph on Titus suggests yet again that they’re trying to figure out the mindset behind actions, the criticism of osie is rather smart (not AI) and comes from someone trying to figure this out also (AI). Being able to point out a tipping point I feel suggests this is natural as well.
158 - No thoughts.
160 - No thoughts. (Titus/Trob not M/M?)
164 - No AI thoughts. Possible pocket if scum.
168 - Reason why the above has been crossed out lol.
272 - lol.
273 - I like the case here and how they defend themselves. They can effortlessly point out the flaws in the case without trying to deflect any of it.
274 - No thoughts.
275 - No thoughts.
277 - This defence feels very relaxed, may suggest not too bothered by osie’s critique of them.
278 - Trying to find about osie’s personality is a good thing if they keep it in mind.
279 - Looking for possible M/M?
280 - Feels like they’re overlooking me here, and it seems a bit weird strangely enough. With how much RE was going on about her issues with me, I’d think there would be doubt enough to look at me a bit more closely, but I may be creating an issue out of nothing by applying my own mindset here.
281 - No thoughts.
282 - Don’t feel like they’re trying to keep track of any narrative here in terms of the Marko vote reasoning, I agree with the Tubba thoughts.
Grapefruit21
35 - No thoughts.
37 - Starting to wonder if the tell is actually existent or not based on how they haven’t shared it yet.
63 - No thoughts.
64 - Yeah I don’t think 37 is actually existent it’s just that they’re trying to get a rise out of Trob.
68 - I don’t really know what they’re replying to so no comment.
72 - Don’t know how the read has been reevaluated without the answer I’m looking for but tryharding isn’t necessarily AI early on: it depends on if there’s a drop off in activity later or not. The nervousness however I’d classify more as self-doubt.
88 - Not really sure what’s going on here. Asking the surface level things of RE despite her already saying further suggests inattentiveness. I’d think scum would try to be more attentive to things.
93 - Dropped the Trob read when they realised it wasn’t AI which is a good thing but they still haven’t done much besides talking to RE.
182 - I don’t know if they’re holding back on the read seeing as they have good feelings on Tammy. Also holds back on Trob, and I’d think that they’d jump on that if scum probably (though I’d think it was deserving of vote based on how they talked about him so is odd). (Yes I know this is contradicting I just haven’t decided which is more convincing yet.) I like their push against osie, but nothing much that hadn’t been said before. I get the feeling that they’re a serious person from this, and they’re not going with the flow with Tubba either (good thing unless M/M).
185 - This is just plain bad, and I feel like it’s because it’s threatening their beliefs and is completely weird.
201 - This post does sound mentally drained, but IDK how they could come up with the TMIing thing when everyone bar Titus and maybe themselves didn’t have Tammy as Townie.
214 - I thought that what they said was not pleasing, but now I’m starting to think it was more like stalling, which is not nearly as good but can come from either alignment. (Pushing it back a full day may suggest scummier though.)
253 - Doesn’t say why the posts are good, question to Titus doesn’t make sense seeing as they replied to me by then. Shows they’re not paying much attention. (NAI)
254 - Trob probably self-meta’d due to my talking how I tend to play, and then I asked for it in depth so that’s likely why. Shows they’re not looking into anything deeply at this point. Feels like a bad case.
255 - No productive vibes when she’s been leading the questioning and has been giving her thoughts on things... This again feels somewhat odd. They also voted Empoof, not me.
260 - I like their trying to challenge RE. Scum would like the gutread toward me (which would serve them in future Days) and probably would leave it alone. Also, I don’t think scum focus on the player who is near universally Townread as their lynch target.
Tubba
29 - This joke is never failing to appear in a game. Tonally bad.
105 - I can agree with having difficulties getting reads near the beginning, but there’s still indicative content so I don’t feel like this is a sound excuse especially since I’m here despite having similar difficulty.
213 - No thoughts.
251 - Second part is good, albeit a little easy to say that to be fair. Nothing else besides that is anything to me. (Though, animal abuse in any form is more common than you’d think. I read a book on Anthrozoology recently…)
Tammy
14 - Tammy begging for Voxx to be Town feels like they really want them to be the same alignment. (“Please be Town”) Don’t think scum could say that due to the same reason. Trying to settle the score with Titus early suggests she really does want to get along with them which could be pleasing could be trying to get away from toxicity. The latter may be the more valid option.
19 - No thoughts.
22 - No thoughts.
25 - No thoughts.
22/25 - Should mean they aren’t inhibiting their thoughts when they actually start solving.
30 - Kinda odd considering Empoof’s 26. Like they wanna hear what they wanna hear.
31 - No thoughts.
33 - Holding back on the light Townread shows insecurity in their actions. Good.
45 - No thoughts.
48 - This tells me Tammy should get better the more people post. It also tells me they’ll probably have better thoughts on these few pages once the gaps have been filled in.
49 - Obvious question but a nice one. Also leads to me thinking they’re posting their stream of consciousness.
52 - Doesn’t really say anything.
60 - I’m not certain about what Tammy thinks of Trob’s read of her. Whether she doesn’t know where it is coming from (heavily suggested) or she does. I’m going with the former, and as such I have to wonder why she’s being cautious of this when she’s played with very few of the players in this game so no one would know she OMGUSes as meta (or is thought to do this). Ergo, it’s probably an irrationality coming from someone very wary. Also, she does state why she is likely thought of as an OMGUSer: she doesn’t like people scumreading her and as a consequence would likely vote them in revenge.
62 - No thoughts.
73 - Basic question so meh.
76 - I feel like they’re trying to get a grasp of my experience level which is a good thing since by the looks of things it contributes to how I should be read. Effort which I think scum may not put in. (Especially seeing as they get to stalker levels of being able to look at me)
112 - No thoughts.
113 - Feels very light here, and I mean in a floaty ‘I’m having fun’ way. I think they may have gotten more out of osie’s ISO than I did.
115 - I think being able to admit that they’re OK at being scum is good: not trying to degrade it or amplify it to their benefit (even if accidental). Also lol iPad autocorrect.
117 - I like how they’re trying to get an answer out of Grape here, even though it’s an easy target for thought.
119 - No thoughts.
138 - Flat out rejection of Titus’ wagon thing I like: prevents them from going back to using it as a proper point which shuts out some avenues for scum to make fake reads based on. Their point about Titus seems valid based off what I’ve seen, and their talk about being Town/scum is likely NAI.
144 - No thoughts.
149 - No thoughts.
150 - I like that they didn’t give a read at this point as by the looks of things it would be tainted by past experience.
152 - I think this is a joke, but yet again I failed to realise this so oops.
161 - No AI thoughts. Bacon is still better cooked in an oven though. Microwaved sounds ewww.
170 - Tammy sounds like they swallowed fairy dust in this post at the beginning, probably why Titus flipped their read to scum. Vox slight Town read is not the best since what they’re being read for can easily be done by either alignment by good scum. (Though they did say they hadn’t seen any scum games of his so it’s more passable by that standard.) Doesn’t say why they Townread RE or Trob tbh, but this is because it was explained before I think.
171 - Proves that they’re easy to talk to even in the context of the game, so is deserving of the read given.
187 - No thoughts.
193 - No thoughts.
194 - No thoughts, except Nacho is probably reading this post right as you speak.
197 - Nice question.
219 - Seems very open in this post.
221 - No AI thoughts.
222 - At this point I’m starting to feel that they’re better at talking about themselves than others (though they did say they’re bad at early game so it’s somewhat justifiable).
Voxxicus
6 - No thoughts.
10 - Giving advice can be done as either alignment but I like it as it gives those from MU more of a way to adapt to the game, which wouldn’t exactly be optimal for scum so early on.
47 - I feel like he’s trying to figure out how he should be reading Empoof to be pleasing. He’s trying to generate a read based on what others say by the looks of this which can easily be tainted by scum.
70 - Not funny. Like, it’s just a realllllllyyyy bad joke.
71 - I like how he’s trying to remove elements of the Empoof meta that may be faulty in this environment. I’m kinda wondering how much impact he can have on the game by treating this as low-effort early though.
91 - Like how they’re trying to dispel any false myths against them but again not AI based on what I’ve seen good scum do.
92 - Well, if it’s being thought then why not say it. May make it sound more important than it actually is.
124 - May be a bit biased in knowing what happened to Ara, but I don’t like that the scummiest thing they could find from the thread was a singular post by a disappearing act. Their reasoning behind it isn’t exactly the best IMO either seeing as Ara always seems hyper concerning the game.
125 - Don’t know why they’d think scum would jump on that when I think at least one person from every group has heard of Ara and her exclamation marks.
131 - Feels like they’re wondering what Titus is thinking and that they’re a crazy person.
132 - I like how they constructed their read, but I don’t think it’s valid based on how it relies on them being able to post after that so in that essence is both an activity and mindset read. I think he doesn’t think what he’s doing is an issue though.
134 - Understandable grumpiness.
Summary of the above (1 is Towniest, 10 is scummiest, again not including Ara or Marko):
Voxx: Don't like what they have done early on, they said they were not going to play much early on but I don't really like his actions: they seem pleasing and his push of Ara for their singular post has issues and is rubbing me the wrong way. 9
Tammy: Their tone is very good, but they haven't done much in the thread up to the point I got to. (It gets better afterwards though with how they meta dived me so I'm keeping that in mind here too). 2
Tubba: Not much alignment indicative from him by the point I stopped, but it's all very meh. 8
Grape: Started off good, then the RE push happened and I wondered why I thought they were Town. Then it struck me that RE would probably be the hardest push to make and that would be a very bad risk for scum so they'd likely avoid it in the first place. 3
Trob: There's things I like and things I don't like. Most of the stuff I dislike is from early on and pretty petty, whilst later on I think the best indicators that suggest Town include giving most people Townreads (which would lead to them needing to fake confusion very well the further the game goes on), skipping words suggest a stream of uninterrupted thought (thinking whilst typing, scum would probably already know what they would write). The issues are numerous though, so I'm in doubt with this. 5
RE: Town. Just everything suggests this is Town RE to me (to the point I give up on giving thoughts about them because it would be a waste of time). 1
osie: Bad feelings, AtE that feels off, bad defences, sheeping cases, overly defensive and generally bad. 10
Empoof: I don't get most of his actions here. Like most of the thoughts probably aren't good because I'm so confused by him. (He does get somewhat better after Ara and Marko appear though so I'm keeping it in mind). 6
Titus: I may have been mistaken in scum reading them so swiftly. All evidence points to them trying to figure out interactions and further bait votes for future analysis as opposed to reading mindset. I was trying to apply my own thinking to someone who plays very differently to me, and once I realised that I found that Titus is probably doing what it takes to solve the game in their eyes. 4
This is where I am at in the backlog. Going to see if I can catchup to everything on Page 12 before I go. Still in London, but I'm planning to stay in tomorrow.
PS: Half asleep when I made the summaries and opening statement.
PPS: I wouldn't recommend trying to read this all at once. 5300+ words.
PPPS: Any questions please just ask them and I'll reply to them tomorrow.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
Titus, you've been asking for readlists, but have you given one?
I don't really give readwalls. I can but I generally put out theories. Observe ---> Test ---> Conclude.
For instance, I observed that you either misunderstood or deliberately ignored the three slots I was asking you about. I was asking you to play Lynch Kill Mason with Empoif Vox and Osie, not the whole playbase.
SGrape, Sorting = Drawing Conclusions from what she asks.
Ah, my bad. If it's just those three:
Lynch: osie
NK: Vox
Mason: Empoof
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
Isn't basing the read on thread presence somewhat hypocritical concerning your own thread presence?
It annoyed me. I honestly don't know to read it.
Feel free to take a stab at why.
If it's because I have a similar lack of presence then I can definitely say that I know that is the case: but my issue is that if they're reading someone for lack of presence, can that not apply to themselves or others such as myself?
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
UGHHHHH
I THINK I'M SCUMREADING SCARLET BECAUSE OF ISSUES I TAKE WITH HER PROCESS
IF I CONSIDER THAT THIS IS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF SCUMHUNTING THEN SHE'S ACTUALLY BEEN PRETTY TOWNIE DESPITE MISREADING PARTS OF THE THREAD AND JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS
IN FACT THE JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS PART MIGHT ACTUALLY BE MORE TOWNIE THAN NOT
ALSO GRAPE IF YOU ARE TOWN FOR ONE SECOND CONSIDER I AM TOWN AND NOT ACTUALLY DEATH TUNNEL ME, THANK YOU
IT'S MAKING IT HARD TO READ YOU IF YOU'RE TOWN
IF YOU ARE SCUM, I WILL WIN THIS LOL
@ScarletC
I didn't like the Titus progression because I thought Titus' vote and replies to you were justified but you instead expressed suspicion towards her when she voted you. You didn't actually answer her Lynch/Vig/Mason question in the way she asked it. It also feels like you are processing things too quickly and in doing so ignoring questions/posts from others that may not seem significant to you but are to us. While you weren't townreading Titus, you said something along the lines of "I'm focusing on Osie now" so it seemed like it came out of nowhere. I didn't reply to this earlier because whether you can help it or not, it's really difficult to read posts that reply to posts without actually quoting posts or mentioning who you're replying to.
Also, I missed that scum have a day chat, but it was also stated in the sign up thread that there's 3 mafia and 0 neutrals in the games
@Grapefruit21 I think there may be a few issues with your case: you're missing some crucial information RE stated pertaining to me and what she reads me as. If you include said information the progression is much more gradual.
The post that I quoted above is something that to me suggests RE Town. What is highlighted red is them trying to reevaluate me, and also seems to be in a very expressive way which I don't think I'd see from their scum game.
The blue is something I agree with, if I end up in a death tunnel I try to question myself on whether what I am doing is right. (Again, only two of those so very small sample size and the answer was always no so I'm probably not the person to ask about this.) My style tends to weigh up arguments of what alignment they could be so I ask you this: is there any redeeming aspects of RE's ISO?
Reply to RE:
I jumped on a thing. I was wrong about said thing. (Just see the Titus summary in the Encyclopedia Celestia...) The processing of things I agree with: I'm trying to rush but that's why I started doing the Encyclopedia so that I may fix any faults I may have in managing to miss things. Bolded: will try to quote things then. I just really hate multi-quoting (in general) and quoting (on this site).
Also, may I ask why you think jumping to conclusions is a Townie thing?
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
(continuation @ScarletC)
As for the Osie progression, you backed off without ever actually voting him.
Now you are voting him and I'm not sure why, other than what you said previously, but you also said Osie came off as more townie for that interaction with Titus (which strangely enough, I thought too, but I'm also not sure of your reasoning for it?)
About that interaction, that was purely miscommunication between the two of them. Osie took Scarlet Rage's question to mean who ScarletC would kill as scum. Scarlet Rage understood it to be a misunderstanding on Osie's part and explained she was actually asking who ScarletC would vig. When Osie tried to clarify:
To kill in the night with Celeste as a hypothetical night vigilante or as a hypothetical scum member?
Scarlet Rage took it to mean he was asking if he would kill you in the night, and was dismissive since she wasn't asking Osie that question.
At least that's what I took the interaction to be.
I thought they were Townier because of the attitude they seemed to have in said interaction: the issues they had with Titus were said with a certain smugness that I thought would come from the thought of catching scum. There was something weird about it, but I have decided to ignore that feeling.
I spoilered some stuff in the post before I voted osie. Everything in their ISO seems very commentary mode, and that's the mode I think scum would end up in when reading people. There's also no concluding or analysis through most of it, as well as some of it seeming to be going with the flow and it was pinging me so much it deserved the vote.
I think the latter is worse than the former since I only have a vague tonal read with the former, but my feelings about the latter are much more solid. I have also listed some of my issues in my Encyclopedia from earlier in the game.
Thanks for the answer about my misconception concerning the interaction, though it does in no way affect my issues with osie.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
@RE basically what you said in the second post was my opinion of your SCelestial take. Which sounds like voting someone for being different. It was the impression I got from your quote explaining your vote.
Anyway I never intentionally use false reasoning. You know my scum game, you know my town game. I don't make crap up. I get things wrong when I'm disengaged but I don't make things up. Anyone who intentionally uses false reasoning is playing scum wrong.
Anyway I haven't addressed the stuff from before I vanished because A: I've had plenty to address in the present B: troba hasn't been around and C: no one has asked me about it.
Anyway on Osie I don't buy that he's only complimentary as scum. I think that's a dangerous meta read to make. I can see not letting it pocket you and ignoring it but treating it as a major scum tell seems bad.
I called scarlet a diversion because you literally had your vote there less than an hour.
As for death tunneling, if I find someone else scummier I'll move and if I can't build a wagon I will but not just because you asked nicely.
Grape, is there anyone you find scummy but not RE level scummy?
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
I wrote a really long pissed off post about osie like 5 hours ago and then decided not to post it.
I saved it though and might post it tomorrow. Basically stop AtEing and go hunt scum, you have grape as your most scummy person and they're generally at the lower end of peoples lists so the game should be going pretty well from your position?
I read some things even though I mostly just had fun tonight. I think tubba is town fairly solidly rn.
trobs MIA kinda random? I don't remember their last post.
ara town >rand, I think I'm just gonna give in to it for now but I still feel like some of the things they listed for me being townie were like too abrupt. But if I don't god read and tinfoil they'll live longer which is cool.
Osie should stop AtEing and start burying grape into the ground. Make more posts that show you're thirsty to find out alignments and question deeper into things. I hate AtE like a lot so I'm going to hammer it home. Hell bury me into the ground maybe it'll help me read you better, you thought my posts were fluffy and put me in "unenthusiastic", do you think I'm mafia? Why? I can't read people who just roll over like that. I'm trying not to rewrite all the stuff that upset me before and focus on the positive direction aspects that you can take.
This is a bad post and should be read as a bad post :wave:
Because I'm my usual self: this is an OK post.
I probably have just as much issue with osie's AtE as you do. Personally, I hate it. It accomplishes nothing but I have seen it from either alignment. I can usually get the feeling from what alignment it comes from, and with this it makes me feel as if they're scum. Experience is no boundary to try and point out issues, even at a basic level.
The part about not pushing is better though. To me it's like (Tubba misquote here) "osie is shading everyone" except RE. This exception I feel comes from a simple reason: scum don't push obvious Town. Scum do go with the flow and keep options open.
The bolded seems a bit in the realms of commentary mode (I'd like you to explain more concerning Tubba) and can people please stop talking about the disappearances? (Like, this is a 2-week game so people are bound to get distracted by things such as real life.)
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
RE/Grape it has just occurred to me that I haven't asked what games you were in together...
The first two games I played with him on MAL, he got mislynched (I was fairly new at the time, one of them was my first non-misc game since hiatus and the other might have been my third game?). There was one on MAL (Starship Epiphron) where he was scum and I was mislynched. One of the games here (Silence of the Lambs) I was mislynched, and in another game here (Arkham Horror) I wasn't mislynched, but still heavily suspected at times.
He's commented on my thread presence being different from what he's seen before, so I don't hold much weight in "scum wouldn't go after obvious town" or the like. And I disagree entirely that scum don't go for a challenge, it depends completely on their playstyle.
RE - How is posting her scumgame bizzare when in a number of games they have been scumread for their posting style? I reference my scum game for the convenienece of others too, simply because I have been told that I'm only ever really been Townread based on meta.
You voted me because I sounded really passive aggressive didn't I? Anyway, still only Page 3 of the reread. If anybody wants me to post more stabilised thoughts please ask.
Concerning Ara's disappearance: they were hosting a game that ended (which I was also in until right near the end, found here. It's what has been causing my lack of attention here.
It's a little difficult to explain. It's like you're filling in the blanks, which comes from intent to solve. Moving quickly over things to get to the juicy bits. I'm not 100% sold on it though. I could make a counter argument and say that jumping to conclusions means you don't care and just want to push an agenda. It's all feeling, very fluid, very...
The only other game I played with Voxx, he was a real engine pushing the thread along. His activity seems to have dropped off but I really can't talk about that myself, so neutral for now.
*snip*
I've mentioned Ara in passing through Voxx's read on them. More activity from them (ironic, I know) should clarify that read but for now they're low in my pool.
I should probably do that meta dive on Tubba (actually, it'd be nice if Tubba could share some of his background in mafia, if he hasn't yet!). But I don't think it's hypocritical to hold someone else to different standards if your past experience with them has been different, even if it's something as basic as activity levels. If Tubba was a more active player usually, yeah, it'd be hypocritical. But I've been taking Tubba's word for it (probably a bad idea lol...) that he's usually more of an observer.
As for your comments on my ISO...
#42 - I'm not sure what you mean by I didn't know what to say there? You could ask, you know -.-
#97 - Who was she referring to if not Tammy?
#199 - Your game was definitely over by the time I mentioned it. I even said it in the same post, that it recently ended...
#200 - Don't call me sweetie. Behavioral reads > tonal reads every time. EVERY TIME
#263 - I actually explained this later on. TMI being Tubba and you being town.
~~~
Does anyone want to back up/disagree with Ara's meta read on Titus? I think Marko already disagreed.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Night tammy. SOrry that it surprised you, it's just how I operate. I've been ****ed over by too many people from AtE and it's honestly just a garbage way to read the game and I'm slightly upset he's getting townreads for it since it reenforces the idea. I think I should have taken a break after both the smogon game and [ongoing] but here I am and I'm going to do my best (I guess... this isn't really my best but I'm here I guess) to push the game in the right direction
The first couple of responses to Osie's AtE felt fairly objective (NAI). But talking about being ****ed over for it... That's different. I think I'm willing to risk thinking scum wouldn't say this.
Meh there were other things too, reads that suggested he was thinking about the game, maybe not too hard, but thinking about it regardless, so I should have conceded the read sooner. At least it's day 1 and not day 3? Lol?
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
I was hoping to really sit down with this game today, but I haven’t really had the time or brain energy for mafia the past few days, sorry. Once I get back home tomorrow thoigh, this game and cleaning to prep for my family visiting next week are my two main priorities. I’ll try to sort out the voices in my head and solidify my reads and lynches I’m comfortable with then, such as I’m able to day one
@everyone: I'm sorry. I got frustrated because I've been too busy to really devote enough time to this, and posted much more emotion-driven than rationally. Enough of that. I'll probably still not be as high activity as my usual self in some other games, as playing Mafia has been kinda demotivating at times recently, but I can at least do some work. Empoof has a point that I should be scumhunting. That said, I don't think his post to me is particularly AI (And I'm probably going to willfully not respond to things; he can find my games pretty easily himself... On MTGS we have:
Avalon, Revolution, Horsemen, Two Takes It, Maelstrom, OTG3, Russian Roulette, Dark and Stormy, Zero Escape, Prison Block, OTG4, Lights Out 3, Resistance.
Pretty much the only games I've played on any site in which I was actually proud of my play were Two Takes It and Lights Out 3. Anyways, though…
Missed a few things that I actually want to respond to:
- You're leaving out words in context that are important to what I'm saying. I said I liked it a little. That doesn't mean I think it's anything particularly good. But what I liked about it was that it was an innocent non-focused question that could be used to suss out alignment based on the manner of the response. I used that some in Zero Escape to help read Phraze.
I don't know what you're talking about in regards to something I've said about Empoof and Gemma. Doesn't seem to show up in my post you were theoretically referencing.
The RE GOAT post feels like town frustrated with people doing something counterproductive.
On (I think) gut, Titus was a scumspect for me. I'm looking back on them momentarily though.
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@TammyI think my thoughts would be too muddled to try and say separate times, but overall, you can find my thoughts on Empoof below, here.
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@Tubba: I've just been busy, man. See Prison Block Mafia for a similar example of that; sometimes it happens. I just replaced out of a game so that I could spend more time on this one. Since {REDACTED} just happened, this is now my only game. So I should be much more active and aggressive.
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@Grape, @Tubba: How many games have each of you played? How often have you played together?
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@Empoof: Just addressing one thing in #538: My readlist that early was not remotely stable. It, like a lot of my early posts, is a form of notetaking so I know roughly what my reads were and I can think back to my reasoning and reevaluate as appropriate. I feel like you're doing a lot of spitting on my scumhunting this game without really supporting your own reads as much as ideal and I really don't appreciate it.
Also towards Empoof, in regards to #651 - I don't think Tubba really has explained this, but he's been in only a few games on site. No more than 2 with each of myself and Grape, and his presence in them was light. I only particularly remember one game in which we actually interacted significantly, and we incorrectly scumread each other for most of that leading to a lot of faffing about.
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@Troba: What did you mean by "hamming it up" in #296?
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@Grape: What's going on with your read on Celeste? Could you please talk me through your thoughts there? Honestly, I'd love to hear your perspective on the game as a whole if you are town. Like, a full set of reads with explanations would be wonderful. If you're scum, I guess you're probably just frustrated with rolling scum. I don't remember as much about your scum game, but if I recall correctly, it's much less solid than your town game, and you generally seem to enjoy playing town more? I might just be reading into my hazy recollection of you too far.
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@Titus: Do you find that your reads are still understood even though you don't publicize them? Do you find that you're often scumread for not publicizing your reads? What are your current reads on Tammy, Celeste, Empoof, and Troba?
And, going through the thread members in rough order of most to least posts.
RE feels like her reactions are very genuine. I like that she's looking at inconsistencies in people's actions and focusing in on the people she knows something about how to read first. I also very much like that she's trying to keep the thread on track. She doesn't seem to be trying to manipulating things in particular. I'm somewhat /barning her reads on Tubba and Celeste. Townread.
Tammy I'm a bit more concerned about than I was earlier. I'm inclined to read her strongly as town by questioning (in particular towards Celeste, Tubba, and Ara) and just seeming so refreshingly free of biases, just playing the game and expecting the same from everyone else. But at the same time, I could be pocketed by Tammy's positive, outgoing attitude this game. I'm inclined to believe otherwise, but I did feel that there was a distinct lack of reads in her response to me in #530, mostly just townreads on Empoof and RE, the former of which I disagree with, and the latter of which feels obvious. Townlean.
Celeste is ringing a bunch of alarm bells for me; she changes her posting style a lot, she's helpful on very random things ("Osie is a guy"), she's asked some pretty superficial questions... There's a lot of moments that lead me to think she's scum trying to push a mislynch on me. Scumread.
Heck, for that matter, I'm WAY more convinced on this right now than on Grape.
Vote: ScarletCelestial
Empoof flips back and forth for me. His early game seemed useless, and I see a lot of fluff there. But then at other times he seems to be seriously posting. (Not a read: #646 IRL grosses me the **** out, though.) I have this nagging feeling that a lot of the posts that look like real posts are actually pretty NAI, and that he's kinda just surfing along and putting out statements to look good. I wish I could point to organic reasoning here, but it's really hard to find it in his posts. Empoof reminds me a lot of Tomsloger though, but with much more active statements. So overall, I'm going to treat him how I might treat Tomsloger in the early game when I'm not certain. Scumlean.
Titus is… hmm. My mind is telling me town and my gut is telling me scum. Their posting style kinda pings me here and there, but I think it's just that; posting style. I feel like I'm just clashing with Titus on principle here and there and that they actually have a decent amount to contribute. But I really need to focus in on them a lot to see if they are contributing that, since otherwise it may be drowned out by the clash in mannerisms. Overall, I'm at a Townlean.
Troba's posts are kinda hard to read at times, between verbiage, flat-out grammar/spelling/mechanics, and wordiness. I was hard reading her as scum mostly because of this, but I think that she's actually had some potentially real thoughts here and there. But it's so interspersed with what to me reads as gobbledygook. I want to townlean here since a scumread feels wrong, but I'm just so conflicted. I think I have to leave her at Neutral.
Grape has gotten a little better... I don't agree with his comments on RE, but I see where he's coming from. I think there's some reasoning there. Not sure about his read on Celeste. That seems really sketchy. Part of me is saying that it's just that he, like me, is busy and demotivated/detached at the moment. But another part is saying that it's just that he's scum. I think my read would be best represented by a Scumlean.
Ara seems very focused on EoDs and lynches. I see some hunting from her, but it's not clear how organic it is. I think I'm going to be paranoid of Ara for a while since she seems sort-of affected/guarded in her approach to reading. Like she's intentionally leaving out some of her thoughts. Maybe it's legitimately that she isn't thinking anything else, but my impression of her was a very experienced, very active, very in tune player, and that's not really what's going on in this thread. All-in-all, I end up with a Scumlean.
Marko has had moments where he's doing nothing, and a lot of them. But some of his posting when he is here is decent. I think I need to see more from him before having a more polar read, but if I do not, he's certainly dropping like a rock. For the moment, I have a slight feeling more towards a scumlean, but I'm at a net Neutral.
Voxx has done actually nothing useful all game. He has been V/LA with medical issues, though. I don't like putting a scumlean on him given that context, but he probably should be replacing out at some point if he continues to be unable to play. For now, I'm going with Neutral.
Tubba seems like some weird combination of a much less self-aware and much more overconfident mishmash of LastWhisper, Shinichi, and himself. I really don't like it at all. I can't just put him at a scumread without talking myself into it since I don't think I can really objectively read him here. But his posts do feel like he might be thinking about things, even if his posting frustrates me even more than previous games. The gimmick really doesn't help or hurt here; it's more the content and mannerisms of the posts themselves. I'd like to say that I think he's too focused on trivial things that have nothing to do with anything. But I've been accused of the same this game, so I don't even know if that is fair. *Sigh* I'm going to put him at a probably-dealing-with-toMorrow Scumlean.
Okay, that was several days of putting together reads. I think I have a good baseline for the moment, and I'll probably be ducking in and out some more until Monday unless something particularly notable calls my attention.
RE imma be real with you I’m gonna stop answering your questions or really interacting with you wrt my alignment or posts because it doesn’t really feel like you’re trying to sort me or gleam my perspective, just feels like you’re trying to find ways to scum read all my posts. Not saying you’re doing that as scum; just think that’s where your mindset is with me
If you feel that I'm searching for ways to scum read your posts, I'll say I wouldn't need to ask you questions if that were the case. For example, if you didn't agree with Ara's reasoning in townreading some of your posts but believed those posts were townie, then I feel it's within reason to expect you to explain why you thought your posts were townie? I didn't ask that question because I wanted to push you, but that there was no way for me to come to that answer on my own. I'll try to tone my aggressiveness down, but saying this doesn't really help?
Like, coincidentally or not, scum (Mrs White) did the same thing to me in the Anon Cluedo game I linked:
Also, backing away can come from either alignment: remember that game where I had basically left the thread because DV made me feel so pissed off? It's done for a number of reasons: one of which is to actually get some work done. It doesn't mean you're wrong, but it doesn't mean you're right either and giving them some time to work then screaming at him again if it's still unsatisfactory is probably the best way to proceed. (Means he doesn't get away with it if he is scum but also means it gives him space if he's Town.)
Also, do you think these two players are comparable in any way, or is this just a general tell to you?
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
I think your questions are mundane in that they offer a small window into my perspective that you’ve been actively disagreeing with. I don’t see an answer to me saying why my posts are townie being something that you would be able to read me properly on as it’s jusy a self reflection.
Questions you should have asked would have been like “what about ara’s play outshines the pings you have on her, why is she still a villager, what reads of hers did you like?” Because that offers a stronger sense of perspective and shows you actually care about the answer
Did you care about the answer I just gave about why my wall was townie to me?
Can you explain the bolded please? Aren't those just the questions that could come into your mind, and perhaps RE has a different perspective to you?
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
I thought the osie frustration wall was pure thought and showcased well all the reasons I’ve been frustrated with Osie’s slot and put my perspective “on my sleeve” in a sense - not really a lot to do with me believing it’s a team game I don’t think, maybe I’m missing the boat there but it just feels like a statement of fact about my play as either alignment rather than because I play a team game, that post was townie
I agree partially. I thought you were expressing frustration about something when boiled down is mafia theory, aka how to play the game. That post was good, it was right, it was also objective. Confirmation bias probably made the post seem more scummy than not, but in the end I think it's something capable of being said by either alignment. The frustration seemed genuine, I'm not denying that.
No, this wasn't the answer that would have helped me. Sorry.
I don’t have specifics about tubba that make me think he’s townie, I’ve just only been pinged by his grape read which I can view as a townie perspective now.
That's a little surprising to me, mainly because by this logic, I would have thought his inclination to vote Osie if he were to place a vote would line up more with your views. I don't disagree with this logic, but I also think it's a really minor read with almost no push (so it comes with almost no repercussion if they are W/W).
Why aren’t you pushing harder to shove me out of town circles? Why aren’t you trying to lunch people that would be my partners? Why are you just throwing small statements that I’m scum over and over?
I was flat out told by Tammy that she didn't care about my read on you. If I recall correctly, it's been mentioned a couple times that those who have played with you wouldn't touch you until several days into the game. Okay. If my read on you isn't receptive by others, then there's little I can do. What I've attacked you for has been dismissed by others as within your town meta. I'm not going to get you today, I'm going to get you through flips. And if I'm wrong about you, those flips will help me see it.
Grape. Marko. I'm fine with those guys being your partners (more accurately scum in general).
Because that's how I play...? I throw in what I'm thinking, cause that's how I can enjoy the game. Eh, I can sorta see why that'd be annoying. But without doing so, there's no way for me to know if I'm justified in those thoughts. I'm fine if people disagree?
As for why I'm not voting you, it's for similar reasons to ScarletC. More of a threshold for me to be wrong. Plus Grape is just on a whole other tier of scumminess than you. I'm not really sure why you think that's a good question when I've made it clear my preference has been Grape this whole time.
Also. Me not asking about Ara has more to do with Ara being in my blind spot right now.
Okay, let's see. Why are you voting Marko when his train is unlikely to pick up due to being a lurker and you could be voting one of Grape and Osie where your vote might actually cause game movement? Are you voting him purely because you want him to be more active (which doesn't seem like it's going to work), or was there something else to it? One of your last comments on him was that his post calling Ara's tone village was villagery, did something change your mind on that?
I'm in a zoom right now (video mafia) but that question is INFINITELY better and this is how you ******* DO IT KIDDO. It shows attention and the things that bug you are apparent DO MORE LIKE THAT YOU ******* BEAAUTIFUL ANIMAL
I'm kinda drunk but **** it let's go
Marko I was hoping would just magically appear if I voted him. It's really tough because I can understand him just having a busy life and not caring about this game that much but an older scum tell for him was his inactivity. It's honestly just frustrating because if he spewed himself town I would literally hard sheep him to the end of the game and probably win or at least discuss ***** with him enough to know where to go properly. I'm hopeful that he's town based on what he's posted so far but at the same time the content is minimal and I could see him making all the posts he's made as mafia. It's very hard for me to deal with marko because of my relationship with him. I think he knows this as well. I won't lie I've been slightly waiting for marko to spew an alignment to ******* rekt this game in because if he posted more than 50 times I think I would know or if I was pocketed would be able to deal with it as time goes on.
BURY ME DADDY
The last time I saw a drunk post I got pocketed by scum. I hope you're not scum.
I feel like this is showing genuine anger, less directed at RE and more at the inability to determine Marko's alignment and I like that.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
@SRage your big wagon on me is two votes... And saying you started it while accurate misses that it was RE and Foopme who were vocally expressing suspicion of me, you just asked RE to vote me with you after a post that usually has a vote in it.
There's something weird about this. Can't put my finger on it, but it's weird.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
#42 - I'm not sure what you mean by I didn't know what to say there? You could ask, you know -.- I feel like you very uncertain of how to approach them. #97 - Who was she referring to if not Tammy? Probably should have edited that once I found out she was definitely referring to Tammy. #199 - Your game was definitely over by the time I mentioned it. I even said it in the same post, that it recently ended... There was a timecode mistake. The tag said you said it on the 20th (after the game had ended) but I checked it with the time and that said 19th (which was before the game ended). So my bad. #200 - Don't call me sweetie. Behavioral reads > tonal reads every time. EVERY TIME This feels kinda aggressive and I'm going to back off from this because you had a case on me later. #263 - I actually explained this later on. TMI being Tubba and you being town. Eh I'll get to it eventually, and I vaguely remember that now that you said it.
So you and Grape haven't played together recently then? Wouldn't that suggest it gave time for both your metas to change?
Oh, I think I might've applied the wrong theorem to what Tubba was saying. I was saying it as if he were applying it to his own standards, but he was applying it to how they usually acted. So it was a hybrid meta/volume tell. I must've misunderstood.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
Also, backing away can come from either alignment: remember that game where I had basically left the thread because DV made me feel so pissed off? It's done for a number of reasons: one of which is to actually get some work done. It doesn't mean you're wrong, but it doesn't mean you're right either and giving them some time to work then screaming at him again if it's still unsatisfactory is probably the best way to proceed. (Means he doesn't get away with it if he is scum but also means it gives him space if he's Town.)
Also, do you think these two players are comparable in any way, or is this just a general tell to you?
I'm not sure, was I in the game or spectating? If it was the gambling one, I thought D_V was scum pretty early on because he was needlessly aggressive. I ended up backing off that read cause you and Jackrito looked aligned in some parts
If it was Terraformars, I was in the hospital for the first and maybe second phase so I really don't remember what happened then, only that D_V got lynched.
Keep reading. I ended up backing off in that game because I seriously thought maybe I was just ******* up and tunneling the wrong person, and hearing that they disliked my style was like, "Wow, I've fallen into my old habits again. I need to change that." And then it turns out they were scum and my gut was right.
Foopme took issue to my questions. Once I asked, er, more aggressive questions, he answered them satisfactorily. There was a difference between the posts I linked and what Foopme was doing.
Underselling: I think I get what you mean with this, even if it relies upon you not seeing my Mafia game (have you taken a look at Waking Life or Mountainous Madness, I can link them if you need me to).
Trob's vote: It was a wagon of two people. That's not much really. On top of that, they voted me and were happy with me pretty quickly so I'd think they would move their vote pretty quickly (unless they're like me and leave their RVS down for half a Day most of time). The rationale for voting RE I can't really pin down, but what came to my mind first was trying to get on my good side.
Egg thing: I think the determining thing with this is in how Empoof determined Tammy's alignment with it. Why do you think that alone could lead to determining her alignment?
Concerning your read of me:
Celeste is ringing a bunch of alarm bells for me; she changes her posting style a lot, she's helpful on very random things ("Osie is a guy"), she's asked some pretty superficial questions... There's a lot of moments that lead me to think she's scum trying to push a mislynch on me.
1 (red). Posting style. I keep changing it based off what I thought would be easiest. I stuck with my usual quoting until I thought I was blocking the thread a bit and since I do that without reading ahead I wouldn't be able to edit them, hence me changing to the walls. However, those I had more issue with since my laptop isn't letting me copy the postlinks and was basically frustrating others as well (RE mentioned it) and so I went back to my usual quoting.
On top of this, I can't see much in the way of this being scummy. It may be odd and somewhat distracting, but that's also partly the reason I had to change my posting in the first place.
2 (blue). How is trying to be helpful scummy when I'm doing both that and trying to comment/question?
3 (green). You yourself argued that it was superficial, not artificial. What changed your mind into thinking this was a scum indicator?
4 (purple). Expand. What about me trying to lynch you is scummy? You're saying that I'm trying to push a mislynch on you without reasoning what about it makes it so that I know it's a mislynch as opposed to what I think it is: a correct lynch. This point just makes me think part of your case is OMGUS.
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
Also, backing away can come from either alignment: remember that game where I had basically left the thread because DV made me feel so pissed off? It's done for a number of reasons: one of which is to actually get some work done. It doesn't mean you're wrong, but it doesn't mean you're right either and giving them some time to work then screaming at him again if it's still unsatisfactory is probably the best way to proceed. (Means he doesn't get away with it if he is scum but also means it gives him space if he's Town.)
Also, do you think these two players are comparable in any way, or is this just a general tell to you?
I'm not sure, was I in the game or spectating? If it was the gambling one, I thought D_V was scum pretty early on because he was needlessly aggressive. I ended up backing off that read cause you and Jackrito looked aligned in some parts
If it was Terraformars, I was in the hospital for the first and maybe second phase so I really don't remember what happened then, only that D_V got lynched.
Keep reading. I ended up backing off in that game because I seriously thought maybe I was just ******* up and tunneling the wrong person, and hearing that they disliked my style was like, "Wow, I've fallen into my old habits again. I need to change that." And then it turns out they were scum and my gut was right.
Foopme took issue to my questions. Once I asked, er, more aggressive questions, he answered them satisfactorily. There was a difference between the posts I linked and what Foopme was doing.
So you and Grape haven't played together recently then? Wouldn't that suggest it gave time for both your metas to change?
Sorry, I didn't clarify. Arkham ended fairly recently. We were both town in that game.
Yes Gambling Apocalypse. I had to leave the thread for a minute because of how frustrated I was and that was me trying to back off. Part of my point was that by treating the issue (Empoof's alignment) in a different way it would be easier to try and see it from a different perspective.
I felt that Empoof was angry that Marko was unreadable at that point and he really wanted to be able to read him. In fact, that drunken rant probably wouldn't have come up in the first place if he could more easily figure out the alignment (aka, scum TMI).
Ah, thought Arkham would've been ages ago with how you listed it with stuff from when you first started. That's probably a big help. I'm going to go take a look at it, to see if I'm just generally wrong about Grape (seeing as everyone else seems to have a problem).
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"Is it possible to be tsundere towards friends and family?"
The creature appears to be flirting with several incredibly attractive succubi. When you get a little closer, you realize they're actually haggling. Over your soul.
@Tammy
Thanks for the compliment! As a relapsing DnD nerd the flavour of this game is awesome! The well might be running dry though...
@RE1031
This is technically my fifth game, (Low Fantasy-scum, Dark and Stormy Night-town, Friends & Enemies-town, PlayStation Mafia-of which we can't speak as it's ongoing, and This Game, all on MTGS). The most active I've been in a game was probably Low Fantasy when I was power wolfing JeyK, or in Friends & Enemies when I was trying to avoid my mislynch. F&E is my favourite game based on that line and that my tinfoil theories actually came true.
Ah, thought Arkham would've been ages ago with how you listed it with stuff from when you first started. That's probably a big help. I'm going to go take a look at it, to see if I'm just generally wrong about Grape (seeing as everyone else seems to have a problem).
Oh, I just listed all the games I played with Grape.
@RE1031
This is technically my fifth game, (Low Fantasy-scum, Dark and Stormy Night-town, Friends & Enemies-town, PlayStation Mafia-of which we can't speak as it's ongoing, and This Game, all on MTGS). The most active I've been in a game was probably Low Fantasy when I was power wolfing JeyK, or in Friends & Enemies when I was trying to avoid my mislynch. F&E is my favourite game based on that line and that my tinfoil theories actually came true.
Thanks!!
Will take a look at later
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
so my internet kind of got ****ed up and im on a shared data plan that ran out really quickly so uh
sorry for ******* dying on everyone for a ******* week i really wish i could have anticipated that but im (probably??) still here
gonna just read the last five pages so i can act relevant
for now im just gonna null everyone on my readlist except for RE/Tammy/Empoof as town until then just in case some big things changed (i was gonna hard reset anyway but :x)
lol i feel less bad seeing ara react to posts i've already read on page 10 but still a whole ******* week i dont think i can capture how pissed i am at my life rn
enough self-salt though sorry fasdjlfkasdflk;ajsdf;la
He's very pushy and excitable as scum, almost like he was angry. As town, I would say he sounds... sad? He definitely took a more active role as scum compared to as town. I only have one scum game on him though, so the meta read I'm relying on isn't too reliable.
oddly enough i'm getting both out of him from what i remember, i felt kind of a "gotcha" sense when he called my vote on him earlier on like predictable OMGUS but the rest of his game feels more like the sad/introspective kind of vibe i think you're getting at
do you think there would be any overlap here? like i personally read "gotcha" kind of things as scummy or bad-ms-town which osie doesnt really seem like personally but people are always different and i could have been reading into it too much
ara can you talk to me about what made you move osie to a townread? this isnt me attacking that read or anything i just havent read too closely so if there was suddenly something super townie from him that i missed since i stopped reading chronologically when i realized this game was WAY too dense for me to speed-read-and-feel-relevant, i'd like to see what you saw since i feel like we're aligning on a lot of things in general (like tubba's townieness)
honestly scrolled up on this page im surprised i got bumped to a null? osie could you pinpoint when that epiphany came out for you?
mostly just ?? @ that read change because i thought i was like a secret pet-scumread and i usually dont let go of those as scum but i'm also not good at in-thread scum play so lol. if you're town seeing the thought process fleshed out is useful etc
~~
also i think the person i gave a dumb townread too early is between one of the scarlets voxx and grapefruit, stay tuned for how i decide to develop that. still havent read marko's posting yet and i'm gonna iso him after this post
Empoof - Can you expound upon what you mean about him being like Tom but with more active statements?
He seems to make a bunch of intentionally low content NAI posts to make it harder to suss out his alignment, like Tom. Unlike Tom, he includes a lot more content when he is including content, though. You've probably played with him more than I have, does this sound correct?
Titus - Your statement here is fairly hedgey here, but how do you fall on the side of him being town from that? Are you intending to focus on her more in this phase? If not, can you do that please?
It is hedgey, in a manner of speaking. I'm really uncertain on Titus. I'm at a slight townlean because I think my gutread there is less fair. I'm certainly paying attention to them today, but if anything I kinda just want to give them an extra day because I think they're so hard to read clearly here that it would be too easy to mislynch them if we just go off of Day 1 reads.
Me - I'm curious as to what you mean by affected/guarded? I can assure you that my posts are, for the most part, just as empty as my thoughts are and haven't particularly felt connected with the game much at all, which I should have expected... Also have no idea why you think I'm experienced/active/in tune when I don't think I've displayed that in my play here at all?
I'm not sure if you're actually connected or not; obviously it seems like you're not. But it feels like you've played up being disconnected a bit, including in this very #706 right here, and are more aware than you let on. I could be overestimating you based on what I saw of you in my look at MU, but while I wouldn't specifically say in tune or active, you do seem to know what you're doing. That disconnect rings slightly more likely to come from scum than town to me.
Tubba - Can you go more into depth about how his posting was on previous games?
Probably not fairly; I had a pretty bad first impression of him in... It Was A Dark And Stormy Night. To try to give him as much credit as I can... He was town that game and survived to endgame. We clashed personalities there (I was kinda hamming things up and he took it pretty badly), and I think he was mostly scumread. I certainly scumread him, but I think it was mostly style. Overall, he was hard pushing thoughts that game. I see some of that here, but less of the forceful, indignant Tubba. I can't comment on the other game of two (hence my bewilderment with some of his familiarity with me) since it's ongoing. Scumlean might be a little strong of a read honestly; he's pretty neutral for me for the moment, and, even more so than Titus, I think he would be an easy Day 1 mislynch that should hopefully sort itself out quickly.
Someone asked me how my team was reading you or something; I don't remember whether I answered that? In any case, my team said that you're really passive as mafia, but never push the game anywhere as mafia - they said that since you are doing stuff and seem to be trying to push the game somewhere means you're probably town and I agree with them for the most part!!
Sounds reasonably correct. I tend to try not to rock the boat; I won't be as daring as scum unless I absolutely have to do so, and even then I'll cover my bases by finding outs, which can often be seen to be set up in advance. I approach the game as if I am town and attempt to solve as such, with minor alterations at the last minute if necessary. But I'm much more likely to slip up in the endgame since I have to find ways to smear people without being too obvious at that point.
The scumgame that the MAL players (Celeste and RE) know me for was very very very different in this regard. It was awkward and I was covering for the whole scumteam's play (One scumbuddy lurked his way through most of the game, and the other scumbuddy made a bungled false claim that we were masons together, then he was outed scum for a full day phase and took most of the fun out of the game) and moderator mistakes (I was given a role PM that said I had unlimited shots of a vigilante ability when I was only supposed to have one shot and was not told by anyone about it until the very moment I went to use the second shot despite openly planning for days in scumchat how to use further shots), so my playstyle there was very different from how it would usually be. I think that MAL players in general tend to overestimate me due to that starting game, due to me hosting a lot of live games (and showing off some ability to quickly come up with setups and roles), and possibly due to my attitude about where I came from (though to be fair, the difference between the manner of play on MTGS and on MAL is night and day).
I think his vote on grape is what shaped his slot for me, because of his long term play with him. It's more important than thinking of voting osie because imo everyone should have the thought of voting osie rn but I'm obviously BIAS. It's more that everything else didn't ping me, at least from what I remember right now. I don't really know how to explain this read very well since it's mostly tonal and gut but I really feel like he's town. At least for right now I'd be okay with not focusing or lynching him but maybe I'm wrong. I do have too many town and he's someone I should probably solidify but ******* SHRUG I feel it in my bones.
Marko what's good my dude please be available right now let's rap
I turn into a lobster literally every time I go outside...
Oh, and talk to me about your reads on Empoof and Celeste.
too much video mafia
osie how did you feel about me freaking out about you?
You can join us on Grape then. Right now, I think he has a >50% chance of being scum. Not as high as the fake scarlet but we need wagon pressure.
I thought osie was hella scummy but don't actively mind grape getting wagoned
RE probably a lock town from his reaction to me
You think I'm wrong on any of trob/tammy/titus?
I had titus as town because the people I view as lower end of the game just... aren't really with her. She'd be on a team with tubba or maybe marko but she's pushed on ScarletCelestial with intent, she pushed on grapefruit with intent, she had a really weird interaction with osie that didn't feel scum/scum. So she's left with like ara/marko/tubba/voxx/RE and I town read RE/ara/tubba/voxx and warming up to marko so it's kind of just... left by herself.
And yeah I was v reading those 3, probably my strongest reads? The titus read is also me just trying out day 1 world building more structurally and I like it.
I'm pretty sleepy so I'm gonna go to bed.
~~~
(last day of work at summer camp... then i can post even more!!!!)
ria should be regardless of alignment. I ran it together in my head with not alignment indicative.
A chainsaw is when you attack a person voting another person. In this case, you voted me after my vote on Scarlet and did not like my scarlet push.
@Marko, I cased Scarlet. Did you not see it?
VC plz
ATE can definitely be a tricky thing to read and I've definitely seen some players use it to their advantage to get a win, but not everything that has emotion in it is actual ATE. So if Osie is scum, that post is ATE and he's probably drawing on past frustration of getting mislynched to appeal here in hopes it will help. If he's town, he's probably not purposefully trying to ATE but is just expressing some frustration that he feels. The two get confused a lot because it's hard to tell the difference. (This little segue of sorts only really matters to me because I've been accused of ATE a lot when it's almost always because I'm feeling some way and that comes through my posts and not as a tactic.)
On that note - Osie - can you talk a little bit more about your Titus read? And also the two empoof reads that I asked about before?
*twitch*
I'm pretty sure the last game we played together was the First Law game. I've only played a couple games at MU since that game, and that's the one I went back to look at last week to get a reminder of your town game. I don't remember clashing with you to much that game. I was Rudd Threetrees in that game and I think you suspected me some but I town read you decently strong. You were cranky, and you might have been one of the people telling me I was't critically thinking in my reads and then when I explained it would be like yeah that sounds good actually? I might have gotten frustrated with you a bit; I was really needing a break from mafia at that point. Though I was only around for day one because nacho ate me that night and was pretending to be me for a couple days, so if you clashed with me those days you didn't actually clash with me. I think you were scum the other maybe two times we played.
Unless by clash you mean just play together then yes we have a few times I think but not since the first law game.
@Empoof: Mixed. Some of my thoughts there I'm not going to comment on until after the game for reasons (Team/Mod communication-related), but in terms of reading you, after a decent amount of wine it's a slight positive since it's more likely to come from town. Doesn't push my read on you significantly, but it's something.
@Tammy: I'll see if I can restore the post where I answered that.
Encyclopedia Celestia Volume 2:
43 - Not going after Trob is a good thing, unless one flips scum. I feel like scum would’ve taken any read they could’ve gotten right about then.
94 - Ignoring Tammy feeling for better pursuits is more productive and thereby Townier than if they tried to talk to them forever and still coming to no conclusion. Getting worried that they’re not trying to pursue anything yet though, and even talking to Tammy would generate more content to read Titus by.
96 - Would’ve been nicer if they elaborated on how those thoughts differed.
100 - I think it depends on how it manifests itself later in the game. The enthusiasm would likely waver throughout the game. I don’t think Titus has thought through this fully.
103 - Thought this was odd but probably my own fault for thinking that. It’s OK.
107 - Easy thing for scum to be Townread over, but I still somewhat like that they’re trying to drag Tubba into the game.
109 - I don’t agree that Day 1 is random, I have played many Light games where this is not so. However, this is a difference in play rather than anything else so meh. This doesn’t tell me anything AI I believe.
120 - I like their pointing out the issue of osie’s read, but likely a little worse since it’s about an issue concerning them. I don’t feel either way about this, except that it sounds somewhat pointy.
121 - lol but IDK why.
123 - I don’t feel like Titus is looking for the motivation in Tammy’s posting here, nor are they trying to understand why they would say they liked osie’s post. The question I feel isn’t the most relevant thing they could’ve asked.
126 - Sounds like this is a question that would help Titus: very related to their life’s work. I’m giving it a good.
133 - Weird flip flop on Tammy seeing as they haven’t really presented any case or tried to converse with them about it (though the latter may be more understandable seeing as Tammy is Tammy). Their vote was for the reason I thought it was so that’s OK. Again, I don’t think they’re trying to empathise with others.
157 - Mentions they have little confidence in their read (but still manages to have them as scum?) but accepting the olive branch is probably a good sign. Saying they’re bad at looking at intentions also makes me feel better about prior actions.
162 - No thoughts.
172 - Don’t exactly get why they interceived my questions (and late on top of it all). Says that gut cannot be fathomed: I interpreted it as Tammy trying to compare this game with another and could fathom it (they did). I can get why they would question asking about gut though. Them feeling burdened by what I said saddens me, but seeing as that it could possibly come from scum trying to pocket Titus it is a good question.
177 - No thoughts - it was removed by mod.
217 - Requesting vote counts does suggest they are trying to keep track of the voting like they said before.
239 - I still stand by my comment about how if I don’t understand something I’ll ask about it. Somewhat defensive, but likely because they felt threatened by what I was saying (although what I said was well-intended). Feel like they should have waited and seen if I did criticise their mistakes but that’s just being nitpicky.
240 - IDK how it gives good data but meh she’s the expert.
242 - My issues with this come from them not trying to vote anybody that they scumread (which I don’t think they had at that point so really this is moot, but they did have issues with me so they could have voted me).
243 - No thoughts.
256 - Trying to prod Tubba into the game is good. Feel like this is a bit of a reaction test as well, which plays to their strengths.
258 - Also feels like she’s laying reaction test bait.
262 - Trying to poke people into helping them is a good look I think.
264 - I was thinking the same thing but it’s an easy thing to wonder about so meh.
266 - No thoughts.
270 - I can see how Titus is constructing their work here, which I rather reject from the depths of my soul because I hate preflip association most of the time (especially after Frostpunk), but I think this suggests they are trying to solve this game. Though with their grouping there it’s certainly no more than 2/3 and even then unlikely.
16 - Wut.
17 - Wut.
20 - Empoof has been smoking. Don’t know what. But something.
21 - Wut.
23 - Empoof has noticed the weirdness of that too. Nice.
24 - No thoughts.
26 - IDK how he got to Tammy = Town just from eggs.
27 - No thoughts.
28 - No thoughts.
29 - I’d prefer it if they gave us their thoughts from this.
51 - But he posts. I was in April Fools Mash where he was scum. I was in Anni where he was Town. And I was very wrong.
54 - Seems a distant way of saying he’s being scumread, but I think I must probe first.
57 - Again, seems like 54 but even more shady.
58 - No thoughts.
61 - I don’t think scum are confident to claim scum unless they have a really good suicide bomber backup plan.
75 - Meme. Think it’s supposed to represent squinting. May suggest they’re taking the meta lightheartedly.
79 - It looks like Empoof is embarrassed, so it may be masking any underlying emotions. Creatures Mash I was more confident in due to it being before I had Town meta so I don’t think it’s as representative as a scum game than Waking Life (which I still think is my best) or Mountainous Madness. Being disconcerted about the posting thing can come from either alignment. Wondering why they care about how RE is read.
80 - I like this. It feels honest.
82 - Starts good gets weird. Missing me.
84 - Still looks like they don’t care about being scumread, but it’s not exactly AI.
98 - I like that he’s trying to get Voxx to address their issue. Don’t like that he’s trying to get him to shelve it if it’s on himself. Nice question to RE, but based on area of expertise it was probably better given to Titus.
104 - No thoughts.
173 - I do not know what I am supposed to get out of this. It’s bad. It’s just plain bad.
184 - Makes me think that the read on me is more AI to him, no clue how being smart is AI though.
189 - No AI thoughts. I drool in my sleep sometimes…
192 - No clue how this is supposed to help determine alignments.
195 - No thoughts.
196 - No thoughts.
198 - Finally a glimmer of an actual read. Not exactly comprehensive and it’s an odd thing to pick out though. Tammy read is consistent with prior posting.
229 - Them not going after Ara is likely a good thing: posting amount is too easy to go through. Engagement is not that good a reason to Town read someone though I think. It’s better in the case of Tammy’s and my own read as it was explained before, but there’s no elaboration on Trob.
231 - He isn’t saying Townread him for it, so that’s a good thing. (I think?)
235 - No thoughts.
236 - Meh. I feel something may be off with this I just can’t place it.
237 - I can’t see any benefit as to why someone would try to show off their scum game as scum. (I have caught two people in the past just because they avoided giving me a scum game - Blackjak in May Light 2.0 and Duk3star in Frostpunk) and RE never fell back on posting (she actually posted more and more).
244 - Empoof denying something that was quoted is not ideal. But they weren’t ever in the background either? I have no clue why he has a thought like this. The smart thing is pissing me off.
246 - Like why does he do this. Stubbornness has nothing to do with voting a 0 poster and it isn’t doing anything…
248 - No comment.
250 - No comment.
265 - And he’s remembered about the Grape CFD.
268 - What happened with the stubbornness… also pleasing people. Bad.
269 - lol.
271 - He has seemed somewhat bored with the game thus far. Need further evidence of changing personality.
276 - Trying to be helpful is always nice, but NAI.
283 - No AI thoughts.
Can I have cookies?114 - Vote seems justified by the state of the readlist.
116 - Don’t know why they’re noting the reads they don’t like, feels like they’re trying to impose their own theory.
127 - I feel like osie twisted the meaning of Titus’ post here somewhat. They only had lingering doubt that I think Town would have when trying to make a decision on alignment. But, I can also see the issue concerning the non-poster from their perspective. First part bad.
128 - Agree, but hypocritical.
178 - Good point.
179 - Shows reevaluation. (Seems like it may be to please Voxx though?)
180 - Seems mildly disconcerted here, but understandable as either alignment… if RE was not making a general statement. Seems too defensive as such. See RE1031 181 for more info.
203 - The explanation makes me wonder why they bothered saying about their opening in their read of RE.
204 - Feels rather dismissive and disgusted here. Definitely doesn’t like my read of osie.
205 - Reads rather weird to me. Says that they don’t know their personality (despite explanations prior to this) but says it’s scummy anyway. Doesn’t try to defend their actions and instead jumps to calling the vote OMGUS. Breaking up the quote also makes the vote look worse than it is (since the top quote was also issues they had with osie.)
206 - No AI thoughts. Both microwaving and boiling bacon is gross.
220 - That was the only game I played with osie and it wasn’t due to tone alone: it was to do with bs mechanical claims. And the second half of that paragraph isn’t even to do with me. First half is misrepresentation the second half is NAI.
223 - “I like that she’s reading my posts” ??? Isn’t that kinda expected… (in their defence I have been kinda flaky this game.) They don’t come to any conclusions on anything bar Trob, and even then what they’re pointing out wasn’t done by them in the first place. (They did read me off my early posts.) I don’t like this.
284 - Ignores the second half of the issue, but the first reply is OK.
285 - Sheeping RE, not adding anything to the case.
34 - No productive thoughts.
38 - I like the reasoning they give, because I agree with what they’re saying. People should create their own thoughts on what they think of people.
42 - I don’t think RE really knows what they want to say here.
66 - I like how they picked up on the same issue as I.
81 - Reason to share meta comes from a place that recognises the needs of Town: that meta may be required in order to gain an insight into personality and temperaments.
83 - Probably saw 82 and was like ‘huh, they’re doing a readlist so I’ll do a readlist’. Although slightly prompted, it probably just didn’t come to them to do one this early. Don’t get why a generic entrance leads to a scumlean, do get that’s it likely they got put there for not doing anything after said generic entrance. Also, based on this it is somewhat odd that they took Empoof’s read of me and used it. Not scummy, just weird humaney stuff.
90 - Like the elaboration on Tubba, and the fact that they read through multiple games of Empoof’s to try and get a further feel for how he acts as scum.
95 - I kinda wonder why there is the best place to vote Empoof, but it was coming.
97 - I think that Titus wasn’t necessarily referring to Tammy, but the inference isn’t a leap.
99 - No thoughts.
101 - RE doesn’t explain what that something is at this point, but I’m guessing because it’s pretty unexplainable gut.
102 - Like this.
108 - Like this too.
110 - No thoughts.
118 - Elaborating on what they said earlier about why they said they’d give meta suggests they were being very truthful about that.
129/130 - Excited because they think they just caught osie out: Townie. Scum RE I feel would be trying to sound more rational about it rather than excited.
137 - Don’t really have any thoughts on it. Like their basic read, though.
141 - lol and honest.
146 - Good thought due to thinking about mindstate and quotes are horrible anyway.
147 - I’d like to see a conclusion about this, but yeah this is a Town RE thought.
156 - Gut reading me as scum based on feeling different about my play could be explained by them only knowing how I play as Town without knowing my scum meta well and me treating this game differently to usual.
163 - No AI thoughts. Personally, I think that Empoof ignoring the scumreads isn’t that bad if no one defends him, as it would suggest that it’d matter not to him if he were lynched which scum would inherently avoid.
165 - No thoughts.
174 - RE following up on things suggest that it’s important to her that it is answered and comes from a general Townie mindset.
175 - Like this.
176 - No thoughts.
At this point I give up trying to read RE - I already think they’re Town and that’s not changing, so from here on is any thoughts I may agree with concerning their posts or disagree with.
181 - Agree here, add to that that osie locked onto a certain piece of information that would have them scumread rather than Townread, which suggests a certain level of paranoia which I think scum would be more likely to have.
183 - No thoughts.
186 - No thoughts that haven’t already been said.
188 - No thoughts.
190 - Accurate, but that’s mainly from me feeling way out of my depth in this game.
191 - I wish I could fall asleep on the bus… I’m too scared to miss my stop.
199 - RE I’m colouring this red and it’s not do with this game but my game was ongoing at the time so you shouldn’t have been talking about it at all.
200 - Tunnel vision sweetie.
202 - No thoughts.
215 - I could’ve sworn I was in game with you where you were scum at some point because I remember being very frustrated that I didn’t really look at you. Though I might’ve just read part of that game and thought I played with you. I would say it was overblown, but for comedic effect. Directed questions at Tammy and Titus because I had to start somewhere and I thought asking the same questions that had already been done wouldn’t be of any help.
216 - No thoughts.
224 - No thoughts.
228 - No thoughts.
230 - How the **** do I keep missing questions…
234 - I agree with the questions.
238 - Well, I think we did end up discussing whether it was a good thing to actually vote a 0 poster or not and the reasons as to why it was done…
241 - No thoughts.
245 - No thoughts.
247 - No comment.
249 - No comment.
252 - I don’t think is tone is different to how I’ve seen it before?
257 - I feel like this is kinda passive aggressive.
259 - No thoughts.
261 - No thoughts.
263 - Kinda wondering what they think the TMI is, malicious vote intent lol.
265 - I like this case. Also wondering what they have thought of Grape in past experience.
9 - I don’t think they’re intentionally lying here, self-meta tends to be skewed in some sort of direction (like how I think my Town game is GOAT) but they don’t really say much about it. They don’t give away any of their scum game weaknesses. I think this post suggests they value consensus and the power of friendship.
11 - No thoughts apart from them having more experience in this setup may mean that they are more equipped if they are scum.
13 - I think this is an accurate depiction of their meta with how they are describing it, so being more truthful suggests Town.
9/13 - Does give the weaknesses of their Town game but not the weaknesses of their scum game.
18 - Ara level of hype for Titus feels off.
36 - I don’t think they can explain their read of myself or Tammy but it aligns with what they say about their meta. Like them questioning Grape.
40 - I completely disagree with the ideology but I can see what sort of place it comes from. Whilst voting with a Townread would mean you’d never get pocketed, there’s points where Townies can just be very wrong. One game everybody thought this guy called Blakjak was Town and I tunneled him all Day 1. I was the one who got killed Night 1. Basically, I like to try and take a bit of both ideologies, I try not to vote with scumreads if I can help it, but I wouldn’t follow my Townreads just because either.
44 - If it’s something that scum should do quickly then why is it in any way Townie?
53 - I want to say something about this but I have nothing to say. Everything seems like a gut read from Trob up to this point, as opposed to things that can actually be explained.
55 - No thoughts.
56 - No thoughts.
59 - No thoughts.
65 - Questioning whether they’re scared or not is likely better than a flat out answer. A false vote of confidence wouldn’t be stated as a question.
69 - I like this truthful approach.
77 - Something that isn’t gut finally. I like how they’re trying to analyse my mindset in that, though trying to analyse page 1 isn’t always the greatest idea. Townreading me this much early on may suggest Town though: scum really need scumreads rather than Townreads. Their holding off on Empoof but liking him also contributes to this thought.
78 - Thought gap lol. Stuff like missing out words comes from trying to think and type at the same time and it going wrong. Scum have something in mind before typing and would be less likely to do that.
85 - Don’t like that they dropped trying to get on to Grape’s case, but I don’t really get the read in the first place. Um… don’t get their Voxx case either. Voting based on the absence of Towniness would be a good move at this point, but they don’t actually do it at this point.
86 - No thoughts.
87 - Votes Marko but I can’t really understand the motivation behind it.
89 - Understands that being wrong =/= alignment. That’s a good thing depending on how they implement this belief in what they do.
143 - I agree with what they say here and I think they’re saying it because there’s something off with Titus.
145 - I don’t know why they would say this, but I think it comes from a Townie place?
155 - Very flowing stream of consciousness, their paragraph on Titus suggests yet again that they’re trying to figure out the mindset behind actions, the criticism of osie is rather smart (not AI) and comes from someone trying to figure this out also (AI). Being able to point out a tipping point I feel suggests this is natural as well.
158 - No thoughts.
160 - No thoughts. (Titus/Trob not M/M?)
164 - No AI thoughts.
Possible pocket if scum.168 - Reason why the above has been crossed out lol.
272 - lol.
273 - I like the case here and how they defend themselves. They can effortlessly point out the flaws in the case without trying to deflect any of it.
274 - No thoughts.
275 - No thoughts.
277 - This defence feels very relaxed, may suggest not too bothered by osie’s critique of them.
278 - Trying to find about osie’s personality is a good thing if they keep it in mind.
279 - Looking for possible M/M?
280 - Feels like they’re overlooking me here, and it seems a bit weird strangely enough. With how much RE was going on about her issues with me, I’d think there would be doubt enough to look at me a bit more closely, but I may be creating an issue out of nothing by applying my own mindset here.
281 - No thoughts.
282 - Don’t feel like they’re trying to keep track of any narrative here in terms of the Marko vote reasoning, I agree with the Tubba thoughts.
37 - Starting to wonder if the tell is actually existent or not based on how they haven’t shared it yet.
63 - No thoughts.
64 - Yeah I don’t think 37 is actually existent it’s just that they’re trying to get a rise out of Trob.
68 - I don’t really know what they’re replying to so no comment.
72 - Don’t know how the read has been reevaluated without the answer I’m looking for but tryharding isn’t necessarily AI early on: it depends on if there’s a drop off in activity later or not. The nervousness however I’d classify more as self-doubt.
88 - Not really sure what’s going on here. Asking the surface level things of RE despite her already saying further suggests inattentiveness. I’d think scum would try to be more attentive to things.
93 - Dropped the Trob read when they realised it wasn’t AI which is a good thing but they still haven’t done much besides talking to RE.
182 - I don’t know if they’re holding back on the read seeing as they have good feelings on Tammy. Also holds back on Trob, and I’d think that they’d jump on that if scum probably (though I’d think it was deserving of vote based on how they talked about him so is odd). (Yes I know this is contradicting I just haven’t decided which is more convincing yet.) I like their push against osie, but nothing much that hadn’t been said before. I get the feeling that they’re a serious person from this, and they’re not going with the flow with Tubba either (good thing unless M/M).
185 - This is just plain bad, and I feel like it’s because it’s threatening their beliefs and is completely weird.
201 - This post does sound mentally drained, but IDK how they could come up with the TMIing thing when everyone bar Titus and maybe themselves didn’t have Tammy as Townie.
214 - I thought that what they said was not pleasing, but now I’m starting to think it was more like stalling, which is not nearly as good but can come from either alignment. (Pushing it back a full day may suggest scummier though.)
253 - Doesn’t say why the posts are good, question to Titus doesn’t make sense seeing as they replied to me by then. Shows they’re not paying much attention. (NAI)
254 - Trob probably self-meta’d due to my talking how I tend to play, and then I asked for it in depth so that’s likely why. Shows they’re not looking into anything deeply at this point. Feels like a bad case.
255 - No productive vibes when she’s been leading the questioning and has been giving her thoughts on things... This again feels somewhat odd. They also voted Empoof, not me.
260 - I like their trying to challenge RE. Scum would like the gutread toward me (which would serve them in future Days) and probably would leave it alone. Also, I don’t think scum focus on the player who is near universally Townread as their lynch target.
105 - I can agree with having difficulties getting reads near the beginning, but there’s still indicative content so I don’t feel like this is a sound excuse especially since I’m here despite having similar difficulty.
213 - No thoughts.
251 - Second part is good, albeit a little easy to say that to be fair. Nothing else besides that is anything to me. (Though, animal abuse in any form is more common than you’d think.
I read a book on Anthrozoology recently…)19 - No thoughts.
22 - No thoughts.
25 - No thoughts.
22/25 - Should mean they aren’t inhibiting their thoughts when they actually start solving.
30 - Kinda odd considering Empoof’s 26. Like they wanna hear what they wanna hear.
31 - No thoughts.
33 - Holding back on the light Townread shows insecurity in their actions. Good.
45 - No thoughts.
48 - This tells me Tammy should get better the more people post. It also tells me they’ll probably have better thoughts on these few pages once the gaps have been filled in.
49 - Obvious question but a nice one. Also leads to me thinking they’re posting their stream of consciousness.
52 - Doesn’t really say anything.
60 - I’m not certain about what Tammy thinks of Trob’s read of her. Whether she doesn’t know where it is coming from (heavily suggested) or she does. I’m going with the former, and as such I have to wonder why she’s being cautious of this when she’s played with very few of the players in this game so no one would know she OMGUSes as meta (or is thought to do this). Ergo, it’s probably an irrationality coming from someone very wary. Also, she does state why she is likely thought of as an OMGUSer: she doesn’t like people scumreading her and as a consequence would likely vote them in revenge.
62 - No thoughts.
73 - Basic question so meh.
76 - I feel like they’re trying to get a grasp of my experience level which is a good thing since by the looks of things it contributes to how I should be read. Effort which I think scum may not put in. (Especially seeing as they get to stalker levels of being able to look at me)
112 - No thoughts.
113 - Feels very light here, and I mean in a floaty ‘I’m having fun’ way. I think they may have gotten more out of osie’s ISO than I did.
115 - I think being able to admit that they’re OK at being scum is good: not trying to degrade it or amplify it to their benefit (even if accidental). Also lol iPad autocorrect.
117 - I like how they’re trying to get an answer out of Grape here, even though it’s an easy target for thought.
119 - No thoughts.
138 - Flat out rejection of Titus’ wagon thing I like: prevents them from going back to using it as a proper point which shuts out some avenues for scum to make fake reads based on. Their point about Titus seems valid based off what I’ve seen, and their talk about being Town/scum is likely NAI.
144 - No thoughts.
149 - No thoughts.
150 - I like that they didn’t give a read at this point as by the looks of things it would be tainted by past experience.
152 - I think this is a joke, but yet again I failed to realise this so oops.
161 - No AI thoughts. Bacon is still better cooked in an oven though. Microwaved sounds ewww.
170 - Tammy sounds like they swallowed fairy dust in this post at the beginning, probably why Titus flipped their read to scum. Vox slight Town read is not the best since what they’re being read for can easily be done by either alignment by good scum. (Though they did say they hadn’t seen any scum games of his so it’s more passable by that standard.) Doesn’t say why they Townread RE or Trob tbh, but this is because it was explained before I think.
171 - Proves that they’re easy to talk to even in the context of the game, so is deserving of the read given.
187 - No thoughts.
193 - No thoughts.
194 - No thoughts, except Nacho is probably reading this post right as you speak.
197 - Nice question.
219 - Seems very open in this post.
221 - No AI thoughts.
222 - At this point I’m starting to feel that they’re better at talking about themselves than others (though they did say they’re bad at early game so it’s somewhat justifiable).
10 - Giving advice can be done as either alignment but I like it as it gives those from MU more of a way to adapt to the game, which wouldn’t exactly be optimal for scum so early on.
47 - I feel like he’s trying to figure out how he should be reading Empoof to be pleasing. He’s trying to generate a read based on what others say by the looks of this which can easily be tainted by scum.
70 - Not funny. Like, it’s just a realllllllyyyy bad joke.
71 - I like how he’s trying to remove elements of the Empoof meta that may be faulty in this environment. I’m kinda wondering how much impact he can have on the game by treating this as low-effort early though.
91 - Like how they’re trying to dispel any false myths against them but again not AI based on what I’ve seen good scum do.
92 - Well, if it’s being thought then why not say it. May make it sound more important than it actually is.
124 - May be a bit biased in knowing what happened to Ara, but I don’t like that the scummiest thing they could find from the thread was a singular post by a disappearing act. Their reasoning behind it isn’t exactly the best IMO either seeing as Ara always seems hyper concerning the game.
125 - Don’t know why they’d think scum would jump on that when I think at least one person from every group has heard of Ara and her exclamation marks.
131 - Feels like they’re wondering what Titus is thinking and that they’re a crazy person.
132 - I like how they constructed their read, but I don’t think it’s valid based on how it relies on them being able to post after that so in that essence is both an activity and mindset read. I think he doesn’t think what he’s doing is an issue though.
134 - Understandable grumpiness.
Summary of the above (1 is Towniest, 10 is scummiest, again not including Ara or Marko):
Voxx: Don't like what they have done early on, they said they were not going to play much early on but I don't really like his actions: they seem pleasing and his push of Ara for their singular post has issues and is rubbing me the wrong way. 9
Tammy: Their tone is very good, but they haven't done much in the thread up to the point I got to. (It gets better afterwards though with how they meta dived me so I'm keeping that in mind here too). 2
Tubba: Not much alignment indicative from him by the point I stopped, but it's all very meh. 8
Grape: Started off good, then the RE push happened and I wondered why I thought they were Town. Then it struck me that RE would probably be the hardest push to make and that would be a very bad risk for scum so they'd likely avoid it in the first place. 3
Trob: There's things I like and things I don't like. Most of the stuff I dislike is from early on and pretty petty, whilst later on I think the best indicators that suggest Town include giving most people Townreads (which would lead to them needing to fake confusion very well the further the game goes on), skipping words suggest a stream of uninterrupted thought (thinking whilst typing, scum would probably already know what they would write). The issues are numerous though, so I'm in doubt with this. 5
RE: Town. Just everything suggests this is Town RE to me (to the point I give up on giving thoughts about them because it would be a waste of time). 1
osie: Bad feelings, AtE that feels off, bad defences, sheeping cases, overly defensive and generally bad. 10
Empoof: I don't get most of his actions here. Like most of the thoughts probably aren't good because I'm so confused by him. (He does get somewhat better after Ara and Marko appear though so I'm keeping it in mind). 6
Titus: I may have been mistaken in scum reading them so swiftly. All evidence points to them trying to figure out interactions and further bait votes for future analysis as opposed to reading mindset. I was trying to apply my own thinking to someone who plays very differently to me, and once I realised that I found that Titus is probably doing what it takes to solve the game in their eyes. 4
This is where I am at in the backlog. Going to see if I can catchup to everything on Page 12 before I go. Still in London, but I'm planning to stay in tomorrow.
PS: Half asleep when I made the summaries and opening statement.
PPS: I wouldn't recommend trying to read this all at once. 5300+ words.
PPPS: Any questions please just ask them and I'll reply to them tomorrow.
V/LA stands for Vacation/Limited Access. It is used to signify that you will be away from the thread for IRL reasons.
Aside: Didn't end up opening my computer this morning. I'll reupload tonight I guess.
Ah, my bad. If it's just those three:
Lynch: osie
NK: Vox
Mason: Empoof
If it's because I have a similar lack of presence then I can definitely say that I know that is the case: but my issue is that if they're reading someone for lack of presence, can that not apply to themselves or others such as myself?
@Grapefruit21 I think there may be a few issues with your case: you're missing some crucial information RE stated pertaining to me and what she reads me as. If you include said information the progression is much more gradual.
The post that I quoted above is something that to me suggests RE Town. What is highlighted red is them trying to reevaluate me, and also seems to be in a very expressive way which I don't think I'd see from their scum game.
The blue is something I agree with, if I end up in a death tunnel I try to question myself on whether what I am doing is right. (Again, only two of those so very small sample size and the answer was always no so I'm probably not the person to ask about this.) My style tends to weigh up arguments of what alignment they could be so I ask you this: is there any redeeming aspects of RE's ISO?
Reply to RE:
I jumped on a thing. I was wrong about said thing. (Just see the Titus summary in the Encyclopedia Celestia...) The processing of things I agree with: I'm trying to rush but that's why I started doing the Encyclopedia so that I may fix any faults I may have in managing to miss things. Bolded: will try to quote things then. I just really hate multi-quoting (in general) and quoting (on this site).
Also, may I ask why you think jumping to conclusions is a Townie thing?
I thought they were Townier because of the attitude they seemed to have in said interaction: the issues they had with Titus were said with a certain smugness that I thought would come from the thought of catching scum. There was something weird about it, but I have decided to ignore that feeling.
I spoilered some stuff in the post before I voted osie. Everything in their ISO seems very commentary mode, and that's the mode I think scum would end up in when reading people. There's also no concluding or analysis through most of it, as well as some of it seeming to be going with the flow and it was pinging me so much it deserved the vote.
I think the latter is worse than the former since I only have a vague tonal read with the former, but my feelings about the latter are much more solid. I have also listed some of my issues in my Encyclopedia from earlier in the game.
Thanks for the answer about my misconception concerning the interaction, though it does in no way affect my issues with osie.
Grape, is there anyone you find scummy but not RE level scummy?
Because I'm my usual self: this is an OK post.
I probably have just as much issue with osie's AtE as you do. Personally, I hate it. It accomplishes nothing but I have seen it from either alignment. I can usually get the feeling from what alignment it comes from, and with this it makes me feel as if they're scum. Experience is no boundary to try and point out issues, even at a basic level.
The part about not pushing is better though. To me it's like (Tubba misquote here) "osie is shading everyone" except RE. This exception I feel comes from a simple reason: scum don't push obvious Town. Scum do go with the flow and keep options open.
The bolded seems a bit in the realms of commentary mode (I'd like you to explain more concerning Tubba) and can people please stop talking about the disappearances? (Like, this is a 2-week game so people are bound to get distracted by things such as real life.)
He's commented on my thread presence being different from what he's seen before, so I don't hold much weight in "scum wouldn't go after obvious town" or the like. And I disagree entirely that scum don't go for a challenge, it depends completely on their playstyle.
Jumping to conclusions.
As for my vote on you:
I should probably do that meta dive on Tubba (actually, it'd be nice if Tubba could share some of his background in mafia, if he hasn't yet!). But I don't think it's hypocritical to hold someone else to different standards if your past experience with them has been different, even if it's something as basic as activity levels. If Tubba was a more active player usually, yeah, it'd be hypocritical. But I've been taking Tubba's word for it (probably a bad idea lol...) that he's usually more of an observer.
As for your comments on my ISO...
#42 - I'm not sure what you mean by I didn't know what to say there? You could ask, you know -.-
#97 - Who was she referring to if not Tammy?
#199 - Your game was definitely over by the time I mentioned it. I even said it in the same post, that it recently ended...
#200 - Don't call me sweetie. Behavioral reads > tonal reads every time. EVERY TIME
#263 - I actually explained this later on. TMI being Tubba and you being town.
~~~
Does anyone want to back up/disagree with Ara's meta read on Titus? I think Marko already disagreed.
Meh there were other things too, reads that suggested he was thinking about the game, maybe not too hard, but thinking about it regardless, so I should have conceded the read sooner. At least it's day 1 and not day 3? Lol?
Avalon, Revolution, Horsemen, Two Takes It, Maelstrom, OTG3, Russian Roulette, Dark and Stormy, Zero Escape, Prison Block, OTG4, Lights Out 3, Resistance.
Pretty much the only games I've played on any site in which I was actually proud of my play were Two Takes It and Lights Out 3. Anyways, though…
Missed a few things that I actually want to respond to:
@ScarletCelestial:
- I meant that you were selling yourself as underwhelming, which I kinda doubt is completely fair.
About Troba - Wasn't it rather early in the game for that sort of a bandwagon, though?
- You're leaving out words in context that are important to what I'm saying. I said I liked it a little. That doesn't mean I think it's anything particularly good. But what I liked about it was that it was an innocent non-focused question that could be used to suss out alignment based on the manner of the response. I used that some in Zero Escape to help read Phraze.
I don't know what you're talking about in regards to something I've said about Empoof and Gemma. Doesn't seem to show up in my post you were theoretically referencing.
The RE GOAT post feels like town frustrated with people doing something counterproductive.
On (I think) gut, Titus was a scumspect for me. I'm looking back on them momentarily though.
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@TammyI think my thoughts would be too muddled to try and say separate times, but overall, you can find my thoughts on Empoof below, here.
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@Tubba: I've just been busy, man. See Prison Block Mafia for a similar example of that; sometimes it happens. I just replaced out of a game so that I could spend more time on this one. Since {REDACTED} just happened, this is now my only game. So I should be much more active and aggressive.
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@Grape, @Tubba: How many games have each of you played? How often have you played together?
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@Empoof: Just addressing one thing in #538: My readlist that early was not remotely stable. It, like a lot of my early posts, is a form of notetaking so I know roughly what my reads were and I can think back to my reasoning and reevaluate as appropriate. I feel like you're doing a lot of spitting on my scumhunting this game without really supporting your own reads as much as ideal and I really don't appreciate it.
Also towards Empoof, in regards to #651 - I don't think Tubba really has explained this, but he's been in only a few games on site. No more than 2 with each of myself and Grape, and his presence in them was light. I only particularly remember one game in which we actually interacted significantly, and we incorrectly scumread each other for most of that leading to a lot of faffing about.
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@Troba: What did you mean by "hamming it up" in #296?
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@Grape: What's going on with your read on Celeste? Could you please talk me through your thoughts there? Honestly, I'd love to hear your perspective on the game as a whole if you are town. Like, a full set of reads with explanations would be wonderful. If you're scum, I guess you're probably just frustrated with rolling scum. I don't remember as much about your scum game, but if I recall correctly, it's much less solid than your town game, and you generally seem to enjoy playing town more? I might just be reading into my hazy recollection of you too far.
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@Titus: Do you find that your reads are still understood even though you don't publicize them? Do you find that you're often scumread for not publicizing your reads? What are your current reads on Tammy, Celeste, Empoof, and Troba?
And, going through the thread members in rough order of most to least posts.
RE feels like her reactions are very genuine. I like that she's looking at inconsistencies in people's actions and focusing in on the people she knows something about how to read first. I also very much like that she's trying to keep the thread on track. She doesn't seem to be trying to manipulating things in particular. I'm somewhat /barning her reads on Tubba and Celeste. Townread.
Tammy I'm a bit more concerned about than I was earlier. I'm inclined to read her strongly as town by questioning (in particular towards Celeste, Tubba, and Ara) and just seeming so refreshingly free of biases, just playing the game and expecting the same from everyone else. But at the same time, I could be pocketed by Tammy's positive, outgoing attitude this game. I'm inclined to believe otherwise, but I did feel that there was a distinct lack of reads in her response to me in #530, mostly just townreads on Empoof and RE, the former of which I disagree with, and the latter of which feels obvious. Townlean.
Celeste is ringing a bunch of alarm bells for me; she changes her posting style a lot, she's helpful on very random things ("Osie is a guy"), she's asked some pretty superficial questions... There's a lot of moments that lead me to think she's scum trying to push a mislynch on me. Scumread.
Heck, for that matter, I'm WAY more convinced on this right now than on Grape.
Vote: ScarletCelestial
Empoof flips back and forth for me. His early game seemed useless, and I see a lot of fluff there. But then at other times he seems to be seriously posting. (Not a read: #646 IRL grosses me the **** out, though.) I have this nagging feeling that a lot of the posts that look like real posts are actually pretty NAI, and that he's kinda just surfing along and putting out statements to look good. I wish I could point to organic reasoning here, but it's really hard to find it in his posts. Empoof reminds me a lot of Tomsloger though, but with much more active statements. So overall, I'm going to treat him how I might treat Tomsloger in the early game when I'm not certain. Scumlean.
Titus is… hmm. My mind is telling me town and my gut is telling me scum. Their posting style kinda pings me here and there, but I think it's just that; posting style. I feel like I'm just clashing with Titus on principle here and there and that they actually have a decent amount to contribute. But I really need to focus in on them a lot to see if they are contributing that, since otherwise it may be drowned out by the clash in mannerisms. Overall, I'm at a Townlean.
Troba's posts are kinda hard to read at times, between verbiage, flat-out grammar/spelling/mechanics, and wordiness. I was hard reading her as scum mostly because of this, but I think that she's actually had some potentially real thoughts here and there. But it's so interspersed with what to me reads as gobbledygook. I want to townlean here since a scumread feels wrong, but I'm just so conflicted. I think I have to leave her at Neutral.
Grape has gotten a little better... I don't agree with his comments on RE, but I see where he's coming from. I think there's some reasoning there. Not sure about his read on Celeste. That seems really sketchy. Part of me is saying that it's just that he, like me, is busy and demotivated/detached at the moment. But another part is saying that it's just that he's scum. I think my read would be best represented by a Scumlean.
Ara seems very focused on EoDs and lynches. I see some hunting from her, but it's not clear how organic it is. I think I'm going to be paranoid of Ara for a while since she seems sort-of affected/guarded in her approach to reading. Like she's intentionally leaving out some of her thoughts. Maybe it's legitimately that she isn't thinking anything else, but my impression of her was a very experienced, very active, very in tune player, and that's not really what's going on in this thread. All-in-all, I end up with a Scumlean.
Marko has had moments where he's doing nothing, and a lot of them. But some of his posting when he is here is decent. I think I need to see more from him before having a more polar read, but if I do not, he's certainly dropping like a rock. For the moment, I have a slight feeling more towards a scumlean, but I'm at a net Neutral.
Voxx has done actually nothing useful all game. He has been V/LA with medical issues, though. I don't like putting a scumlean on him given that context, but he probably should be replacing out at some point if he continues to be unable to play. For now, I'm going with Neutral.
Tubba seems like some weird combination of a much less self-aware and much more overconfident mishmash of LastWhisper, Shinichi, and himself. I really don't like it at all. I can't just put him at a scumread without talking myself into it since I don't think I can really objectively read him here. But his posts do feel like he might be thinking about things, even if his posting frustrates me even more than previous games. The gimmick really doesn't help or hurt here; it's more the content and mannerisms of the posts themselves. I'd like to say that I think he's too focused on trivial things that have nothing to do with anything. But I've been accused of the same this game, so I don't even know if that is fair. *Sigh* I'm going to put him at a probably-dealing-with-toMorrow Scumlean.
Okay, that was several days of putting together reads. I think I have a good baseline for the moment, and I'll probably be ducking in and out some more until Monday unless something particularly notable calls my attention.
EBWODP:
@Tammy: here
RE, I think you're proving his point here.
Also, backing away can come from either alignment: remember that game where I had basically left the thread because DV made me feel so pissed off? It's done for a number of reasons: one of which is to actually get some work done. It doesn't mean you're wrong, but it doesn't mean you're right either and giving them some time to work then screaming at him again if it's still unsatisfactory is probably the best way to proceed. (Means he doesn't get away with it if he is scum but also means it gives him space if he's Town.)
Also, do you think these two players are comparable in any way, or is this just a general tell to you?
Can you explain the bolded please? Aren't those just the questions that could come into your mind, and perhaps RE has a different perspective to you?
The last time I saw a drunk post I got pocketed by scum. I hope you're not scum.
I feel like this is showing genuine anger, less directed at RE and more at the inability to determine Marko's alignment and I like that.
There's something weird about this. Can't put my finger on it, but it's weird.
Can you elaborate on the reaction thingy? Also, Mr Tillman.
#97 - Who was she referring to if not Tammy? Probably should have edited that once I found out she was definitely referring to Tammy.
#199 - Your game was definitely over by the time I mentioned it. I even said it in the same post, that it recently ended... There was a timecode mistake. The tag said you said it on the 20th (after the game had ended) but I checked it with the time and that said 19th (which was before the game ended). So my bad.
#200 - Don't call me sweetie. Behavioral reads > tonal reads every time. EVERY TIME This feels kinda aggressive and I'm going to back off from this because you had a case on me later.
#263 - I actually explained this later on. TMI being Tubba and you being town. Eh I'll get to it eventually, and I vaguely remember that now that you said it.
So you and Grape haven't played together recently then? Wouldn't that suggest it gave time for both your metas to change?
Oh, I think I might've applied the wrong theorem to what Tubba was saying. I was saying it as if he were applying it to his own standards, but he was applying it to how they usually acted. So it was a hybrid meta/volume tell. I must've misunderstood.
If it was Terraformars, I was in the hospital for the first and maybe second phase so I really don't remember what happened then, only that D_V got lynched.
Keep reading. I ended up backing off in that game because I seriously thought maybe I was just ******* up and tunneling the wrong person, and hearing that they disliked my style was like, "Wow, I've fallen into my old habits again. I need to change that." And then it turns out they were scum and my gut was right.
Foopme took issue to my questions. Once I asked, er, more aggressive questions, he answered them satisfactorily. There was a difference between the posts I linked and what Foopme was doing.
I didn't even read it as anger... Almost like excitement. I thought we were actually making progress. It made me happy. Was Foopme angry? :/ Sorry, I didn't clarify. Arkham ended fairly recently. We were both town in that game.
Underselling: I think I get what you mean with this, even if it relies upon you not seeing my Mafia game (have you taken a look at Waking Life or Mountainous Madness, I can link them if you need me to).
Trob's vote: It was a wagon of two people. That's not much really. On top of that, they voted me and were happy with me pretty quickly so I'd think they would move their vote pretty quickly (unless they're like me and leave their RVS down for half a Day most of time). The rationale for voting RE I can't really pin down, but what came to my mind first was trying to get on my good side.
Egg thing: I think the determining thing with this is in how Empoof determined Tammy's alignment with it. Why do you think that alone could lead to determining her alignment?
Concerning your read of me:
Celeste is ringing a bunch of alarm bells for me; she changes her posting style a lot, she's helpful on very random things ("Osie is a guy"), she's asked some pretty superficial questions... There's a lot of moments that lead me to think she's scum trying to push a mislynch on me.
1 (red). Posting style. I keep changing it based off what I thought would be easiest. I stuck with my usual quoting until I thought I was blocking the thread a bit and since I do that without reading ahead I wouldn't be able to edit them, hence me changing to the walls. However, those I had more issue with since my laptop isn't letting me copy the postlinks and was basically frustrating others as well (RE mentioned it) and so I went back to my usual quoting.
On top of this, I can't see much in the way of this being scummy. It may be odd and somewhat distracting, but that's also partly the reason I had to change my posting in the first place.
2 (blue). How is trying to be helpful scummy when I'm doing both that and trying to comment/question?
3 (green). You yourself argued that it was superficial, not artificial. What changed your mind into thinking this was a scum indicator?
4 (purple). Expand. What about me trying to lynch you is scummy? You're saying that I'm trying to push a mislynch on you without reasoning what about it makes it so that I know it's a mislynch as opposed to what I think it is: a correct lynch. This point just makes me think part of your case is OMGUS.
Yes Gambling Apocalypse. I had to leave the thread for a minute because of how frustrated I was and that was me trying to back off. Part of my point was that by treating the issue (Empoof's alignment) in a different way it would be easier to try and see it from a different perspective.
I felt that Empoof was angry that Marko was unreadable at that point and he really wanted to be able to read him. In fact, that drunken rant probably wouldn't have come up in the first place if he could more easily figure out the alignment (aka, scum TMI).
Ah, thought Arkham would've been ages ago with how you listed it with stuff from when you first started. That's probably a big help. I'm going to go take a look at it, to see if I'm just generally wrong about Grape (seeing as everyone else seems to have a problem).
@Tammy
Thanks for the compliment! As a relapsing DnD nerd the flavour of this game is awesome! The well might be running dry though...
@RE1031
This is technically my fifth game, (Low Fantasy-scum, Dark and Stormy Night-town, Friends & Enemies-town, PlayStation Mafia-of which we can't speak as it's ongoing, and This Game, all on MTGS). The most active I've been in a game was probably Low Fantasy when I was power wolfing JeyK, or in Friends & Enemies when I was trying to avoid my mislynch. F&E is my favourite game based on that line and that my tinfoil theories actually came true.
Will take a look at later
so my internet kind of got ****ed up and im on a shared data plan that ran out really quickly so uh
sorry for ******* dying on everyone for a ******* week i really wish i could have anticipated that but im (probably??) still here
gonna just read the last five pages so i can act relevant
for now im just gonna null everyone on my readlist except for RE/Tammy/Empoof as town until then just in case some big things changed (i was gonna hard reset anyway but :x)
enough self-salt though sorry fasdjlfkasdflk;ajsdf;la
oddly enough i'm getting both out of him from what i remember, i felt kind of a "gotcha" sense when he called my vote on him earlier on like predictable OMGUS but the rest of his game feels more like the sad/introspective kind of vibe i think you're getting at
do you think there would be any overlap here? like i personally read "gotcha" kind of things as scummy or bad-ms-town which osie doesnt really seem like personally but people are always different and i could have been reading into it too much
mostly just ?? @ that read change because i thought i was like a secret pet-scumread and i usually dont let go of those as scum but i'm also not good at in-thread scum play so lol. if you're town seeing the thought process fleshed out is useful etc
~~
also i think the person i gave a dumb townread too early is between one of the scarlets voxx and grapefruit, stay tuned for how i decide to develop that. still havent read marko's posting yet and i'm gonna iso him after this post
He seems to make a bunch of intentionally low content NAI posts to make it harder to suss out his alignment, like Tom. Unlike Tom, he includes a lot more content when he is including content, though. You've probably played with him more than I have, does this sound correct?
It is hedgey, in a manner of speaking. I'm really uncertain on Titus. I'm at a slight townlean because I think my gutread there is less fair. I'm certainly paying attention to them today, but if anything I kinda just want to give them an extra day because I think they're so hard to read clearly here that it would be too easy to mislynch them if we just go off of Day 1 reads.
I'm not sure if you're actually connected or not; obviously it seems like you're not. But it feels like you've played up being disconnected a bit, including in this very #706 right here, and are more aware than you let on. I could be overestimating you based on what I saw of you in my look at MU, but while I wouldn't specifically say in tune or active, you do seem to know what you're doing. That disconnect rings slightly more likely to come from scum than town to me.
Probably not fairly; I had a pretty bad first impression of him in... It Was A Dark And Stormy Night. To try to give him as much credit as I can... He was town that game and survived to endgame. We clashed personalities there (I was kinda hamming things up and he took it pretty badly), and I think he was mostly scumread. I certainly scumread him, but I think it was mostly style. Overall, he was hard pushing thoughts that game. I see some of that here, but less of the forceful, indignant Tubba. I can't comment on the other game of two (hence my bewilderment with some of his familiarity with me) since it's ongoing. Scumlean might be a little strong of a read honestly; he's pretty neutral for me for the moment, and, even more so than Titus, I think he would be an easy Day 1 mislynch that should hopefully sort itself out quickly.
Sounds reasonably correct. I tend to try not to rock the boat; I won't be as daring as scum unless I absolutely have to do so, and even then I'll cover my bases by finding outs, which can often be seen to be set up in advance. I approach the game as if I am town and attempt to solve as such, with minor alterations at the last minute if necessary. But I'm much more likely to slip up in the endgame since I have to find ways to smear people without being too obvious at that point.
The scumgame that the MAL players (Celeste and RE) know me for was very very very different in this regard. It was awkward and I was covering for the whole scumteam's play (One scumbuddy lurked his way through most of the game, and the other scumbuddy made a bungled false claim that we were masons together, then he was outed scum for a full day phase and took most of the fun out of the game) and moderator mistakes (I was given a role PM that said I had unlimited shots of a vigilante ability when I was only supposed to have one shot and was not told by anyone about it until the very moment I went to use the second shot despite openly planning for days in scumchat how to use further shots), so my playstyle there was very different from how it would usually be. I think that MAL players in general tend to overestimate me due to that starting game, due to me hosting a lot of live games (and showing off some ability to quickly come up with setups and roles), and possibly due to my attitude about where I came from (though to be fair, the difference between the manner of play on MTGS and on MAL is night and day).