I'm pretty okay with townreading Grape and vezok. I think the real challenge will be deciding whether the last scum is osie or shadow.
Given that they can't be together, osie protecting a teammate no longer makes sense as a world. It's either a case of weird valuation or TMI, and whiteknighting a scummy villager is kind of eh?
So here's where I'm at. I was looking at passed missions/fails/fancy mechanics and realized that this game is actually much easier than I thought. Mechanically, KJ and Wuffles are confirmed wolves (yeah yeah, I know "shadow, that's only from your pov, isn't it a bit disingenuous?" No, it's not).
So all I have to do is solve the one of Vez/Osie/Vaimes/grape that is the last scum.
Excellent.
Well you're doing better than KJ to have picked up on that.
Welcome and I'm excited to have a dash of new blood in the game for the finish!
So here's where I'm at. I was looking at passed missions/fails/fancy mechanics and realized that this game is actually much easier than I thought. Mechanically, KJ and Wuffles are confirmed wolves (yeah yeah, I know "shadow, that's only from your pov, isn't it a bit disingenuous?" No, it's not).
So all I have to do is solve the one of Vez/Osie/Vaimes/grape that is the last scum.
Excellent.
Well you're doing better than KJ to have picked up on that.
Welcome and I'm excited to have a dash of new blood in the game for the finish!
He's doing better than me by picking up that I'm a mechanical wolf? I'm not a wolf. Why would I think that I'm mechanically a wolf when I'm not a wolf.
Also:
Failed missions were
Me, Vezok, Osie
Me, Vezok, Vaimes
Most likely team here is Osie/Vaimes/(Wuffles/Shadow) since Vezok has approved all missions he's been on and is less likely to do that when there wouild be two scum for fear of having two fails. I have a stronger scumread on Shadow at the moment.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So here's where I'm at. I was looking at passed missions/fails/fancy mechanics and realized that this game is actually much easier than I thought. Mechanically, KJ and Wuffles are confirmed wolves (yeah yeah, I know "shadow, that's only from your pov, isn't it a bit disingenuous?" No, it's not).
So all I have to do is solve the one of Vez/Osie/Vaimes/grape that is the last scum.
Excellent.
Well you're doing better than KJ to have picked up on that.
Welcome and I'm excited to have a dash of new blood in the game for the finish!
He's doing better than me by picking up that I'm a mechanical wolf? I'm not a wolf. Why would I think that I'm mechanically a wolf when I'm not a wolf.
Also:
Failed missions were
Me, Vezok, Osie
Me, Vezok, Vaimes
Most likely team here is Osie/Vaimes/(Wuffles/Shadow) since Vezok has approved all missions he's been on and is less likely to do that when there wouild be two scum for fear of having two fails. I have a stronger scumread on Shadow at the moment.
Scum!KJ continues to put himself by being clueless on the mechanics
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Yeah, nah, sorry Shadow, I get that you're trying to salvage this for the scum, but mikey was so obviously lock scum after his magic ball proclamations with little to no evidence and then his "bah I give up" post that you're totally not going to convince me otherwise.
And Osie tried so hard, SO hard to get your precedecessor townread. Too bad it backfired on him.
And osie, your post about mikey not having an agenda? So, so weak. Mikey blatantly had an agenda and so do you.
Shadow already said it but to everyone on the mission they two people with them should be confirmed scum. Otherwise the mission would have failed. I know you're pouring wine here but you just proposed a scum team that had two wolves on the last mission Killjoy.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Killjoy, you literally have no choice but to scumread him.
Both missions failed, and it couldn't have been because of both me and osie. Unless you want to argue we went against our win condition and passed Mission 4 for the lulz?
vezok is the only other player on both missions. It's either him or you, and I doubt you're going to scumread yourself.
You not getting this is a huge red flag, because as town it shouldn't be "oh I briefly considered that vezok could be scum," it should be "oh wow, there's only one scum between osie and Vaimes, which means vezok is scum; let me look at the game through that lens."
You not getting this is a huge red flag, because as town it shouldn't be "oh I briefly considered that vezok could be scum," it should be "oh wow, there's only one scum between osie and Vaimes, which means vezok is scum; let me look at the game through that lens."
That's not even quite right. From his POV there should only be 1 scum between you/Osie/Vez/me and he should confirm Shadow and Wuffles as scum.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm also currently scumreading both Osie and Vaimes for their above posts. But I bet that's just because it's Osie and Vaimes and the game just started.
This post is hilarious in retrospect.
Mikey and KJ feel sort of buddy-ish on page 1. Unless something strikes me during this reread I want last mission's team but maybe maybe swap wuffles for Osie. No confidence one way or the other between those two.
alright I'm going to suggest a team of vezok+grapefruit
I think it is a good team and I think it is going to pass
Scumpost.
The first mission almost always passes, regardless of alignment.
This has a subtle kind of "look at me, fellow townies, for I am also a scumhunting townie" undertone.
lol what the actual heck
what
what
what
do you legitimately not understand the significance of grape being sent on a mission today?
Really wish I'd bugged mikey about this more, his eventual explanation of I haven't played but understand mechanics is bizarre. In retrospect and bathed in tinfoil it looks like trying to signal Vez to take me and fail the mission since I'd talked about failing mission 1 and could be a fall guy.
I think vezok gets a + for going against the last mission. He was widely townread, and going against the grain here as a spy would be a weird path to take instead of just voting yes and trying to squeeze himself onto the last mission.
By going aganst a mission that doesn't even secure a town win, he just makes it harder for himself to end up on the last mission.
No. He doesn't necessarily realize that his scumbuddies won't vote for things and he absolutely couldn't account for Mikey not flat-out rejecting the mission. That's too much of a stretch. I think that was a flat-out scum rejection of a mission he knew would pass since he was the only scum on it.
I'm pretty okay with townreading Grape and vezok. I think the real challenge will be deciding whether the last scum is osie or shadow.
Given that they can't be together, osie protecting a teammate no longer makes sense as a world. It's either a case of weird valuation or TMI, and whiteknighting a scummy villager is kind of eh?
So like...Mission 4 is all town question mark.
Vaimes, can you actually look at my ISO of Vezok and respond if you're going to townread Vezok so loosely without considering that he might be scum?
Here, I even quoted it for you.
Vezok
I don't know Vezok as well as some other players, but I've seen him around some. My impression of him is a very good scum hunter and all-around sensible dude with a bit of a wooden style that tends to lead to people who haven't seen him play much before scumreading him no matter his alignment, myself included. I hadn't really given Vezok a real solid read this game, kinda relying on him being town based on POE and the idea that Wuffles would townread him no matter Wuffles's alignment if Vezok was town.
#15 - Setup thoughts, NAI this early.
#20 - "I'm town!" Good point though. Slight +town.
#45 - Unexplained townread on Mikey and slight scumread on Vaimes. Slight +scum.
#56 - Unaware of setup in terms of mission results. Scum is less likely to not fully understand the setup. Slight +town.
#99 - Not sure on reads. NAI at best because of wine.
#101 - Doesn't understand strange question from Killjoy and straight-forwardly asks what KJ is expecting. Slight +town instead of a flat +town because of wording.
#103 - Honest straightforward answer. NAI at worst.
#106 - Proposal doesn't say much. Continued setup confusion, but not getting more townpoints for that.
#109 - Answering for someone else = Slight +scum. Answer itself is relatively NAI.
#117 - In context, this question looks very off the cuff. I like it. +Town.
#141 - This post feels very meaningless even in context. NAI.
#151 - This post calling Vaimes out for acting overzealous is decent. Slight +town instead of a flat +town due to coaching potential.
#159 - His argument seems like it kinda comes after his opinion -> NAI at best.
#164 - Reasoning for proposal is good. Refusal to change a read this early is bad, but could just be bad play. Overall, I think the bad kinda cancels out the good here, but I'll give him a bit of credit and go for NAI at worst.
#168 - Okay, WHY were you scumreading him? Slight +scum.
#193 - Very very certain on KJ and Mikey. How are you this certain? +Scum.
#213 - So sure on his behavioral analysis. Hmm… I like his latter two comments, though, even if there's a contradiction between the tones of his first and second comments. Slight +scum overall.
#239 - Kinda pointless post. NAI at best.
#262 - And your scumread on Vaimes vanished where? +Scum.
#273 - Grape had made 32 posts including the previous post. This is your 19th post. Grape also mostly agreed with your proposed town team in your next post, but with him instead, which looking ahead a few posts in your ISO, you ignored. Strong +Scum for disingenuous argument.
#297 - Reasoning would be great. Also, this is a huge level of certainty. Also, you're wrong. Also, you're pushing for the scummiest other players. +Scum.
#328 - Excludes himself from potential scumreads for me. Eww. +Scum.
#333 - Meta post on Wuffles. NAI at best. (Because it's pretty damn useless.)
#375 - Actively useless post. +Scum.
#395 - "BARN KJ!" Strong +Scum.
#410 - Down for Vaimes/Vezok/Grape/Wuffles. NAI at best.
#414 - This post seems scripted and forced. The question to KJ feels thrown in and the point towards me is very shady. +Scum.
And then Vaimes caught KJ in the obvious slipup because KJ can't afford to scumread Vezok here. KJ is buddies with Vezok, and Wuffles is the other scum.
Vaimes has hopefully seen enough to get that.
Grape is now barking up a crazy tree.
The Mikey case was always bad. It was a sheep mentality. Nobody, not even myself stopped to say "Wait a second." And that's continued with the other 5 players even after I started to say "Wait a second." Sheep mentality is really terrible.
I'm out for now, but I really hope that town actually decides to read the game.
I will reject any mission with Vezok, Killjoy, or Wuffles on it. I will accept only:
And then Vaimes caught KJ in the obvious slipup because KJ can't afford to scumread Vezok here. KJ is buddies with Vezok, and Wuffles is the other scum.
Vaimes has hopefully seen enough to get that.
Grape is now barking up a crazy tree.
The Mikey case was always bad. It was a sheep mentality. Nobody, not even myself stopped to say "Wait a second." And that's continued with the other 5 players even after I started to say "Wait a second." Sheep mentality is really terrible.
I'm out for now, but I really hope that town actually decides to read the game.
I will reject any mission with Vezok, Killjoy, or Wuffles on it. I will accept only:
Grape, Vaimes, Osie, Shadow.
Reading through the game what I was most convinced of was KJ being scum. The thing I was second most convinced of was MikeyShadow being scum. Mikey did nothing except state mission's would fail, not vote, and not explain anything. His scum team seemed to morph consistently to include whoever was on the mission, and he seemed to forget he was town reading me for 2 IRL days before he picked it back up like nothing happened. Plus there is 409 which is well after everyone should have realized KJ was outed. Plus he's weirdly scum reading me again.
As for your Vez case I've looked at it and the first half is things you're giving him town credit for, the second scum credit. And I disagreed more with the second half than the first. 273 for example is the post you give the most weight to, but like joining in on the "Grape is a wet noodle" narrative isn't scummy. Despite my amount of posts I was a wet noodle. I hadn't taken any stances or pushed any reads. I'd been present but I'd been going with the flow. So I don't really see it as hypocrisy that he's criticizing me for not being present when he's posted less. I got annoyed by it in real time, but it's not inherently scummy. And definitely not scum++. And the idea that my agreeing with a mission team he posted later and he didn't comment on it makes that post worse has me scratching my head.
Ohhh right KJ/Osie/Wuffles. Yeah that team doesn't exist. Osie gunned way too hard for me to take wuffles off the last mission for me to believe they are buddies.
I don't think I'm ready to propose a mission team. Deadline is in like twelve hours.
shadow replaced into a super scummy slot and hasn't done much of his own solving besides pointing out the obvious.
Also the [redacted] is dumb because I am dumb. Mission 4 always annoyed because you get no info if it passes, but obviously that's not true, so disregard.
And then Vaimes caught KJ in the obvious slipup because KJ can't afford to scumread Vezok here. KJ is buddies with Vezok, and Wuffles is the other scum.
Vaimes has hopefully seen enough to get that.
Grape is now barking up a crazy tree.
The Mikey case was always bad. It was a sheep mentality. Nobody, not even myself stopped to say "Wait a second." And that's continued with the other 5 players even after I started to say "Wait a second." Sheep mentality is really terrible.
I'm out for now, but I really hope that town actually decides to read the game.
I will reject any mission with Vezok, Killjoy, or Wuffles on it. I will accept only:
Grape, Vaimes, Osie, Shadow.
Reading through the game what I was most convinced of was KJ being scum. The thing I was second most convinced of was MikeyShadow being scum. Mikey did nothing except state mission's would fail, not vote, and not explain anything. His scum team seemed to morph consistently to include whoever was on the mission, and he seemed to forget he was town reading me for 2 IRL days before he picked it back up like nothing happened. Plus there is 409 which is well after everyone should have realized KJ was outed. Plus he's weirdly scum reading me again.
As for your Vez case I've looked at it and the first half is things you're giving him town credit for, the second scum credit. And I disagreed more with the second half than the first. 273 for example is the post you give the most weight to, but like joining in on the "Grape is a wet noodle" narrative isn't scummy. Despite my amount of posts I was a wet noodle. I hadn't taken any stances or pushed any reads. I'd been present but I'd been going with the flow. So I don't really see it as hypocrisy that he's criticizing me for not being present when he's posted less. I got annoyed by it in real time, but it's not inherently scummy. And definitely not scum++. And the idea that my agreeing with a mission team he posted later and he didn't comment on it makes that post worse has me scratching my head.
I guess I'll ponder your Mikey-Killjoy-Wuffles team. I really didn't like how Mikey seemed to get run up at the beginning by the vast majority of the thread, just as I did soon after.
Ohhh right KJ/Osie/Wuffles. Yeah that team doesn't exist. Osie gunned way too hard for me to take wuffles off the last mission for me to believe they are buddies.
About what post numbers did this happen?
~~~~~
Dear Vaimes, I’m disappointed. You say I’ve not done much, which isn’t exactly untrue because I’ve not been in very long, but it’s also laughable to look at both KJ and wuffles not understanding the mechanics of the game and actually thinking they’re town.
You said you wanted to solve for the scum on Mission 4, so show me your solving. We need a perfect towncircle to win. Your team is Wuffles/KJ/who else?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
You said you wanted to solve for the scum on Mission 4, so show me your solving. We need a perfect towncircle to win. Your team is Wuffles/KJ/who else?
I’m not even sure yet, but I’m rejecting and hoping every townie does also, otherwise game over.
2-3 spies in shadowkey/Wuffles/Killjoy
I'm pretty okay with townreading Grape and vezok. I think the real challenge will be deciding whether the last scum is osie or shadow.
Given that they can't be together, osie protecting a teammate no longer makes sense as a world. It's either a case of weird valuation or TMI, and whiteknighting a scummy villager is kind of eh?
So like...Mission 4 is all town question mark.
Keep feeding me your thoughts.
Well you're doing better than KJ to have picked up on that.
Welcome and I'm excited to have a dash of new blood in the game for the finish!
Also:
Failed missions were
Me, Vezok, Osie
Me, Vezok, Vaimes
Most likely team here is Osie/Vaimes/(Wuffles/Shadow) since Vezok has approved all missions he's been on and is less likely to do that when there wouild be two scum for fear of having two fails. I have a stronger scumread on Shadow at the moment.
And Osie tried so hard, SO hard to get your precedecessor townread. Too bad it backfired on him.
And osie, your post about mikey not having an agenda? So, so weak. Mikey blatantly had an agenda and so do you.
Failed missions were
KJ, Vezok, Osie
KJ, Vezok, Vaimes
If you're town, then vezok should be confirmed scum to you. Whoops.
Both missions failed, and it couldn't have been because of both me and osie. Unless you want to argue we went against our win condition and passed Mission 4 for the lulz?
vezok is the only other player on both missions. It's either him or you, and I doubt you're going to scumread yourself.
That's not even quite right. From his POV there should only be 1 scum between you/Osie/Vez/me and he should confirm Shadow and Wuffles as scum.
I was approaching it from the mission failures rather than how the fourth mission went.
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Check out the Shop Thread
This post is hilarious in retrospect.
Mikey and KJ feel sort of buddy-ish on page 1. Unless something strikes me during this reread I want last mission's team but maybe maybe swap wuffles for Osie. No confidence one way or the other between those two.
Really wish I'd bugged mikey about this more, his eventual explanation of I haven't played but understand mechanics is bizarre. In retrospect and bathed in tinfoil it looks like trying to signal Vez to take me and fail the mission since I'd talked about failing mission 1 and could be a fall guy.
Vaimes, let's talk. If you're scum we've lost this, so I'm assuming that you're town. Talk to me. What's your team looking like and why?
What was this about?
Of everyone, I think you’re almost certainly town, you proposed a mission 4 that passed, which can’t be understated.
No. He doesn't necessarily realize that his scumbuddies won't vote for things and he absolutely couldn't account for Mikey not flat-out rejecting the mission. That's too much of a stretch. I think that was a flat-out scum rejection of a mission he knew would pass since he was the only scum on it.
Vaimes, can you actually look at my ISO of Vezok and respond if you're going to townread Vezok so loosely without considering that he might be scum?
Here, I even quoted it for you.
Vaimes has hopefully seen enough to get that.
Grape is now barking up a crazy tree.
The Mikey case was always bad. It was a sheep mentality. Nobody, not even myself stopped to say "Wait a second." And that's continued with the other 5 players even after I started to say "Wait a second." Sheep mentality is really terrible.
I'm out for now, but I really hope that town actually decides to read the game.
I will reject any mission with Vezok, Killjoy, or Wuffles on it. I will accept only:
Grape, Vaimes, Osie, Shadow.
So your scum team is KJ/Osie/???
Reading through the game what I was most convinced of was KJ being scum. The thing I was second most convinced of was
MikeyShadow being scum. Mikey did nothing except state mission's would fail, not vote, and not explain anything. His scum team seemed to morph consistently to include whoever was on the mission, and he seemed to forget he was town reading me for 2 IRL days before he picked it back up like nothing happened. Plus there is 409 which is well after everyone should have realized KJ was outed. Plus he's weirdly scum reading me again.As for your Vez case I've looked at it and the first half is things you're giving him town credit for, the second scum credit. And I disagreed more with the second half than the first. 273 for example is the post you give the most weight to, but like joining in on the "Grape is a wet noodle" narrative isn't scummy. Despite my amount of posts I was a wet noodle. I hadn't taken any stances or pushed any reads. I'd been present but I'd been going with the flow. So I don't really see it as hypocrisy that he's criticizing me for not being present when he's posted less. I got annoyed by it in real time, but it's not inherently scummy. And definitely not scum++. And the idea that my agreeing with a mission team he posted later and he didn't comment on it makes that post worse has me scratching my head.
shadow replaced into a super scummy slot and hasn't done much of his own solving besides pointing out the obvious.
Also the [redacted] is dumb because I am dumb. Mission 4 always annoyed because you get no info if it passes, but obviously that's not true, so disregard.
I'll be here before deadline hits to propose something, even if we end up nixing it.
I guess I'll ponder your Mikey-Killjoy-Wuffles team. I really didn't like how Mikey seemed to get run up at the beginning by the vast majority of the thread, just as I did soon after.
Propose: Vaimes, Grape, vezok, Wuffles
Into the dark we go.
It is now Voting Phase 5.1.
The deadline for voting is 12:30 PM Eastern time on July 22nd.
You may continue posting.
~~~~~
Dear Vaimes, I’m disappointed. You say I’ve not done much, which isn’t exactly untrue because I’ve not been in very long, but it’s also laughable to look at both KJ and wuffles not understanding the mechanics of the game and actually thinking they’re town.
Point out where Wuffles misunderstood something?
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Check out the Shop Thread
Accept (4): vezokpiraka, killjoy, Grapefruit21, Wuffles_II
Reject (2): osieorb18, Vaimes
Not Voting (1): shadowlancerx
It is now Mission Phase 5.1.
Mission 5 will fail and the resistance has been broken.
Congratulations to the spies, shadowlancerx, Killjoy, and Wuffles_II!
Comments on stuff I should change/whether you like or hate the format etc. are welcome.