I Would Lynch Vaimes - Didn't like his earlier posts but eventually I was ok with them. Is he an emotional player? If he's not usually so, then he's very much scum to me. It's not that difficult to feign frustration imo. But if he's always easily frustrated, I may have to revisit this.
DV, why did you look through a bunch of my past games? What were you hoping to find?
Jeeh wiz.
IDK some insight into you as a player.
An understanding of what is going on.
Who the **** knows? I really just did it for the lulz and because I thought it was fun.
Why the **** did you even ask this question?
Are you just going for post count without thinking about the game at all?
Could you please be less unpleasant? Like actually? Please? There is literally no reason to talk to me like this.
I just wanted to know publicly displaying the results of a meta search like that were something you do as scum.
And yes there is a lot of reason for this hostility.
You've whined constantly about me "Nit picking you." Yet you ask dumb ass questions like this. Or your 200 IQ question to Kpaca. You're the one nit picking asking worthless questions. Yet me asking you anything = DV is nit picking me.
@DV
This is reminiscent of Vaimes/Killjoy in F&E, but decidedly more heated. I'd place that at your feet. I don't think this level of abrasiveness is very helpful for town or solving. A scream fight won't actually unearth any reads. I'd be happy to look at a Vaimes case, but all I see when I read your posts are hammerstrokes and f-bombs. I would never vote with that. If you honestly think Vaimes is scum, pitch your case to the class instead of arguing in circles with him.
@Vaimes
Grape is decidedly more quiet this game, but I think it's way too early to read much into that.
@DV
This is reminiscent of Vaimes/Killjoy in F&E, but decidedly more heated. I'd place that at your feet. I don't think this level of abrasiveness is very helpful for town or solving. A scream fight won't actually unearth any reads. I'd be happy to look at a Vaimes case, but all I see when I read your posts are hammerstrokes and f-bombs. I would never vote with that. If you honestly think Vaimes is scum, pitch your case to the class instead of arguing in circles with him.
@Vaimes
Grape is decidedly more quiet this game, but I think it's way too early to read much into that.
I've never understood this reasoning.
Swearing doesn't invalidate or strengthen a case. If your entire argument against the case is that there is too much swearing then I can't help you. I actively won't help you, because I think that kind of thinking is reductive.
If you need a bullet point of the "Case" its sort of spread out.
A. Vaimes is ******* shading pretty much everyone with his questions.
B. Vaimes is whining about me questioning his attacks on people, while he nit picks others in an attempt to make them look bad.
C. Vaimes has the highest post count in the game and I can't tell you what his position is on more than half of the game.
D. Vaimes vote count is ******* baffeling. He has voted LW for **** knows what reason. Then turned around and voted Tomslogger a player that he didn't ******* say god damn anything about. He also has yet to follow up this vote.
E. Following this Vaimes has placed his vote on random ass people, then ******* done nothing with it. Then ******* attacked other people. He just parking his god damn vote and I have no clue why. Probably because he doesn't actually have a case on it.
F. Vaimes has multiple times said he was leaving the thread last night and kept popping in. This reeks of scum needing to read for reactions of his posts.
G. We have some sort of dumb ass reason for not voting Vaimes, because and I quote "I've seen scum make wagons on him".
H. Nobody has given any reason to town read Vaimes.
I. He has the highest post count in the game, yet its totally trash. HIS OMGUS on Kpaca was so ******* scummy I'm surprised an entire swamp didn't spawn in the thread the moment he made that vote.
J. I've read/skimmed most of Vaimes recent games. In none of the games does he resort to this sort of attacks where he attempts to make people read in negative light, additionally his votes make a lot more sense. The only game I found where his votes line up with this is a scum game.
Okay D_V seriously go take a chill pill. Three people have now said your posting style is unnecessary and not cool dude.
I am not saying that Vaimes has done a stellar job or has maintained the high ground in this epic level slapfight but god dammit that open level of hostility you're showing is throwing me off.
@DV
This is reminiscent of Vaimes/Killjoy in F&E, but decidedly more heated. I'd place that at your feet. I don't think this level of abrasiveness is very helpful for town or solving. A scream fight won't actually unearth any reads. I'd be happy to look at a Vaimes case, but all I see when I read your posts are hammerstrokes and f-bombs. I would never vote with that. If you honestly think Vaimes is scum, pitch your case to the class instead of arguing in circles with him.
@Vaimes
Grape is decidedly more quiet this game, but I think it's way too early to read much into that.
I've never understood this reasoning.
Swearing doesn't invalidate or strengthen a case. If your entire argument against the case is that there is too much swearing then I can't help you. I actively won't help you, because I think that kind of thinking is reductive.
If you need a bullet point of the "Case" its sort of spread out.
A. Vaimes is ******* shading pretty much everyone with his questions.
B. Vaimes is whining about me questioning his attacks on people, while he nit picks others in an attempt to make them look bad.
C. Vaimes has the highest post count in the game and I can't tell you what his position is on more than half of the game.
D. Vaimes vote count is ******* baffeling. He has voted LW for **** knows what reason. Then turned around and voted Tomslogger a player that he didn't ******* say god damn anything about. He also has yet to follow up this vote.
E. Following this Vaimes has placed his vote on random ass people, then ******* done nothing with it. Then ******* attacked other people. He just parking his god damn vote and I have no clue why. Probably because he doesn't actually have a case on it.
F. Vaimes has multiple times said he was leaving the thread last night and kept popping in. This reeks of scum needing to read for reactions of his posts.
G. We have some sort of dumb ass reason for not voting Vaimes, because and I quote "I've seen scum make wagons on him".
H. Nobody has given any reason to town read Vaimes.
I. He has the highest post count in the game, yet its totally trash. HIS OMGUS on Kpaca was so ******* scummy I'm surprised an entire swamp didn't spawn in the thread the moment he made that vote.
Need I go on?
It's not that I'm adverse to swearing, but the play style of railing away and swearing without really making a case. If you just spit and snarl at each other for the sake of spitting and snarling, there's very little to read off of or go into. These bullet points are very helpful in breaking down why you think Vaimes is scum, and something that other players can work with.
Okay D_V seriously go take a chill pill. Three people have now said your posting style is unnecessary and not cool dude.
I am not saying that Vaimes has done a stellar job or has maintained the high ground in this epic level slapfight but god dammit that open level of hostility you're showing is throwing me off.
No dude.
You haven't thought this through at all.
As soon as the games started Vaimes basically told me to "**** off" with his "I find you asking me questions annoying". I've asked him repeatedly what he wants me to do. Because hes doing shady *****, and hes asking dumb questions. I'm attempting to understand why he is playing the way he is. However, he keeps complaining about me asking him questions. Whining about it.
The answer to his question. The one he doesn't have the balls to type. Is that he doesn't want me in the game. Or he wants me to ignore him, because he is on planet Vaimes and gets to do what ever he wants to do. Regardless of how scummy or *****ty it is as him as person to do so. He wants to play his own game, and **** the rest of us. Why should he be accountable for his own actions?
Meanwhile when Kpaca votes him. He attempts to "1v1" kpaca, which read not only as an OMGUS vote. But also as an attempt to bully kpaca to go elsewhere.
DV man I understand and agree with a lot of points you have with Vaimes right now. I nor anyone else really have an issue with that, it's more the fact that you're attacking him personally and not just his play this game. Some people have different responses to swearing but that's not the issue, it's lines like "How the **** we're you ever a good player"
That's not cool man, and if directed at me I would probably resign myself to getting lynched then play in six months maybe. Like I enjoy you and your playstyle but ***** I'm feeling bad for Vaimes at this point.
Pick apart his actions, call him scum all day long, but that ***** has to stop man. He didn't run over your dog or anything, we are all here to play a game for fun.
@Dan okay thanks for answering, I understand more what you disliked about that now. I would contend that most of what you said doesn't really warrant fencesitting, leaving out the GJ escape valve and such, but articulating the other issues you have with it clears it up
I really think DV is town this game, but his really agressive stily isn't helping this game.
I also feel tubba is town too. Tom feels surprisngly town this game.
Wanna elaborate on that Tom statement? Did you expect him to be scum and be surprised that he wasn't? Surprised that sitting on the sidelines gives you town vibes?
Disclaimer: I am in a rare situation where work is completely dead for me. My being able to post with this level of depth and regularity during office hours is not going to be consistent moving forward (in particular, after July 2. Speaking of, V/LA July 4-8 (Dice Tower Con), August 1-5 GenCon
Anyhow.
@Anak: Allow me to make an observation: Tom didn't give a reason, but you and Osie clearly provided reasons for your vote. You, aside, didn't acknowledge my response yet (which bothers me, as I think I have good points).
@All: Do DV/Vaimes have some sort of history, or does DV just have a way of drawing this out of people? Clearly, there's something between he and Osie. Related, @GF (but anyone can feel free to respond to this): you don't think Vaimes' tone is notably different here than in Friends/Enemies?
@Tubba: I wasn't mislynched, I was the N1 NK because of how awesome I am. I've been wanting to try this playstyle out as town for a while now (feel free to look back at my meta, but I'm confident that this is a strong deviation from any of my previous games as either alignment), and saw a situation where I could take advantage of it. I think it's working!
@Rodemy: I've already provided the reason why Osie would do it. Do you think I'm either A) wrong, B) misrepresenting him as scum or C) both?
@LW: Can you give me a brief explanation of your experience level?
---
@Osie: Why do you think Kpaca is easier to read than usual? Just the rust, or specific things he's saying, tone, etc (with examples, preferably)?
Re: Pushes, only the post directly responding/quoting you was me attempting to push anything. My making observations and allowing the person in question to respond, a push does not make. There's no repeated dogging of the same point, and there was no intensifying/digging further into any response that was made.
Re: Coaching, as I said, this struck me as ridiculous. I asked a question! I responded to an implied question!
Re: Buddying, seriously? I'm not allowed to say I like a post, or give an opinion on the main event happening in the thread? That's buddying? Do I need to phrase it as rigidly as possible for you? Perhaps put in a formal request to provide feedback?
As for 129, yeah, that was a bit of buddying I guess. It was a joke referring to my showing up late to the last couple of games where I had to make big catchup posts. Take from that what you will.
Re: Questions, I'll admit that I do this too much as a player. If I don't do it as soon as I see it, I generally forget about it. A result of shoddy notetaking on my part. So, add that to your scum tally or whatnot. I stand by the point that it adds more information to the game, regardless.
I don't think Vaimes sounds noticeably different from F&E. I think he's actually remarkably similar sounding which is why I'm confused by DV's insistence that he sounds so different.
Probably Town ganderin_dan - I like his later interactions with D_V Grapefruit21 - Tbf, I think his responses were easy but nothing is pinging him scum to me so by bias, he's in this group of people I wouldn't want to lynch. Ehh but I like #278 Osie - Didn't like how he put me in town lean based on few fluff posts, but it's easier to just push me for scum or ignore me with the kind of posts I made but instead he did this :|
Doesn't seem like scum to buddy-up with a non influential player and he doesn't seem to take every opportunity to call out others as scum, so for now, he's in this pile.
Ehh Wuffles_II - he said nothing to my proposal of him being my pet Lastwhisper - Nothing much yet. I like to just put him in scum pile but he's been nice, so I'll return the gesture. D_V - Bias says he's probably town, but some other corner of my mind said he should be lynched. Until I know exactly which, he's ehh.. Everyone Else
I Would Lynch Vaimes - Didn't like his earlier posts but eventually I was ok with them. Is he an emotional player? If he's not usually so, then he's very much scum to me. It's not that difficult to feign frustration imo. But if he's always easily frustrated, I may have to revisit this.
Your bit on me is a bit disjointed. At first you just say it's bias then you point to a post you like. So do you actually town read me or not? And what do you like about the linked post?
On Vaimes how does that add up to being willing to lynch? You only talk about temperament.
Why did you pull those 3 particular people out from everyone else to specify them as "ehh"
He just got out of a game where he was mislynched, and visibly upset about it. I would think, as town, he'd want to double his efforts here or do something that shows he's town sooner rather than later. Something that shows he's trying to correct his play to not get mislynched again.
That, combined with it feeling like he's straddling the sidelines of the game. Not really diving in.
Mostly want the opinions of people who were either in or read F&E so they can compare, but anyone else can contribute thoughts if they have them.
I'm definitely playing this differently. I am a very seat of my pants player and nothing here has grabbed me as obviously as it did in F&E. There I had several strong town reads almost immediately. Here I'm struggling to get a footing given how many slapfights we've had.
A, B, C, D and E are cause for concern, I can see where this is pinging the ol' scumdar.
F doesn't seem alignment indicative. He's under pressure and I would respond similarly as either alignment.
G isn't really on Vaimes, could be buddy rescue, could be white knighting.
H I don't like, it's not really a fair stance to take. It's too open to interpretation.
I in F&E Vaimes post count was through the roof, and a lot of it was LAMIST and town clearing himself. He was town then, so at this point I'm chalking it up as NAI.
J also in F&E Vaimes/Killjoy, KJ pointed out how it looked like Vaimes was trying to make him look bad, so again at this point I'd have to say NAI.
The last points are based off last game, and I don't like meta reads but meta is a thing.
Based on your earlier points, I'd like to hear Vaimes response, minus the slap fighting.
Based on your earlier points, I'd like to hear Vaimes response, minus the slap fighting.
I'll answer A-E.
A. I have expressed suspicion towards several players, but I haven't thrown shade. I don't consider those to be the same thing at all.
B. Again, expressing suspicion =/= shade. I haven't nitpicked anyone; any question I ask is to try and see how a person is thinking about the game. Most of DV's questions towards me feel like he's already decided I'm scum and that he's going to pick apart my answers and use them to ask even more questions, rinse, repeat.
C. I've expressed some townreads and some scumreads. I don't hammer them home that much.
D. I explained why I thought LW could be scum. Sometimes I don't vote in the same post when I talk about a scumread. I explained why I thought tom might be scum.
E. I vote one person and express suspicion towards others. It's D1, there are several scum alive, and I'm not really constructing concrete scumteams in my head. Just pointing out things I think are weird or don't like.
Based on your earlier points, I'd like to hear Vaimes response, minus the slap fighting.
I'll answer A-E.
A. I have expressed suspicion towards several players, but I haven't thrown shade. I don't consider those to be the same thing at all.
B. Again, expressing suspicion =/= shade. I haven't nitpicked anyone; any question I ask is to try and see how a person is thinking about the game. Most of DV's questions towards me feel like he's already decided I'm scum and that he's going to pick apart my answers and use them to ask even more questions, rinse, repeat.
C. I've expressed some townreads and some scumreads. I don't hammer them home that much.
D. I explained why I thought LW could be scum. Sometimes I don't vote in the same post when I talk about a scumread. I explained why I thought tom might be scum.
E. I vote one person and express suspicion towards others. It's D1, there are several scum alive, and I'm not really constructing concrete scumteams in my head. Just pointing out things I think are weird or don't like.
Quote where you said Tom or LW could be scum in any sort of capacity other than a trivial. "They could be scum"
Okay so going thru RVS i don't see anything too telling in the way of obv-scum. Vaimes asking questions. A "What's new" question towards GJ strikes me as odd since it doesn't do anything to gather info for Town or Scum.
Am I the only dark lord looking forward to seeing the famous Osie flailing this game?
*exhales loudly*
You're probabally not because either he or Vaimes are scum.
Okay D-V coming out the gate with the accusations. Not really Alignment indicative but still strange concidering he doesn't explain. Concidering he is now in a huge argument with vaimes, i am thinking there is something here in his vaimes accusation.
Osi with his reads list. Thought out. That vaimes vote was bad, but there was a reason behind it and i there is some townieness in that. gotta find scum somehow.
I actually like his reads on Wuffles. That gimmick doesn't do anything and that buddying to vaimes seems intentional.
Tom says his reads list is a flail. Gleams a few replies, nothing eye catching. I'm on board with Vezoks reads of Kpaca and Vaimes. Kpaca is giving off some weird vibes at this point being "confused" and i am not sure but hasn't he played a bunch before?
Grape has some decent questions of osies walls. good analysis.
Wuffles posts some.. very boring stuff. Like, he makes a weird star warsesque quip at osie and then says he's never played with him before, like he is justifying his.. i have to say kind of scumread? Idk what this is..
The black-cloaked man with the breathing problems walks up to Osie and examines him in minute detail.
"Hmm. The force is strong with this one. Said nobody ever.
*heavy breathing intensifies*
(guys keeping track of things is hard :[)
Dear ******* god Tubba is Jar Jar. KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Okay so GD's vote on Osie is an eye catcher. He says it's serious. this is a first good start in my serious scumleans.
FUWA Points out Vaimes #24 is shady and i cannot see it whatsoever. He doesn't believe Kpaca didn't know what Pocketing was. And i had to tell him i just learned yesterday what it was. So it was just a question? I don't see anything suspicious bout it.
Vaimes gets defensive about osies reads list.. and ohhh boy.
osie, none of your points make me scum. They’re either town-indicative for me or NAI. Why do my posts need to be useful during RVS?
You observed F&E so I have a pretty hard time believing your light scumread.
-
DV, where did you pull that dichotomy from?
I cannot see a town vaimes having this much defense against osies reads list. We KNOW it was early. We KNOW it was kinda pulled from nothing. But he is very defensive anyway.
Osies reply to it was actually beautiful. It shows actual effort and i like that.
and kpaca back with his questions that have nothing to do with what is going on.
Yeah, I'm gonna say you are scum and that at least one other person in the townblock is scum.
vote tomsloger
Statistically, the first person to suggest a townblock is scum. I'm restricted to phone posting this week so I can't provide examples, but I'll try when I have the time.
Serious accusation coming outta vezok here. I don't like it actually. Feels like he was using Iso's last scum attempt at the townbloc to mudsling tom for making it. I do not like I do not like. I DO NOT LIKE. That knocked him down a few points.
GJ comes in and calls osies reads list wolfy. Okay, so. I am gonna have a scumlean on him due to the fact he just says it's wolfy and doesn't vote him.
I like anuks question to vaimes about where his statistics about townbloc being scum come from. Like i said, He saw it last game as scummy and it feels like he is using it to mislynch tom, who at that point had done nothing towny or scummy (which IMO makes a good mislynch candidate)
Last Whisper is right on target with where i am at in the game. (#95)
Okay so D_V is trying to make sense of toms towncore reads. Which, if i know tom, was probably a probe to see where people are on these people. He picked 3 people who aren't actually HXC town and it's kinda obvious. D_V actually points it out. GG D_V.
Okay, i am gonna have to go soon so i will read more, write less.
I like GJs 100. It is a good defense. He does kinda go off the rails a little later, but again, reads as frustration than anything.
VAIMES goes after D-V and it is poor. Asking if he is scum saying he is making things up. making a narrative D-V is scum. I see.
And D-V is warming up to me. (#103)
I might actually barn D-V on his Vaimes and Vezok Reads. D-V for town!? HOLY ***** WHAT HAS HAPPENED.
okay, all my thoughts on osies list aside, G_D makes a good point in 108 about sayign people with >5 posts need to post more a page in is.. useless. But as scum, i don't see osie doing it. it is too obvious and dangerous to do that poor of a list that early.
But dan comes from a very reasonable stance. Town for now, but the attack might be scum trying to push an easy lynch on osie.
God now D-V and vaimes are into it. Seeing as at this point i see D-V as town and Vaimes as kinda scummy i am gonna stop here. Like, if they are still going at it on page 10, i want to get them sorted out. D-V fights as scum. Vaimes.. doesn't look good when the fight starts. This is what has me at a very weird read. Like, D-V seems town, but he is arguing and getting anger and i have only seem him as scum so i see scum DV when he does this.
Omg im not on page 4 yet.
can the scumteam just.. out themselves. I don't wanna do this anymore.
Okay
vote vaimes
D_V wants Vaimes to admit he is wrong? Like.. what? is this real? (#149)
I actually hate his reply to Kami. I think D_V is arguing with Vaimes as S/S it feel like this is possible concidering the 2 are.. mouthy.
And dan is calling it T/T.
At this point i am gonna skim over what they are arguing about and not actually gonna base anymore reads off of them replying to one another. Only what others are saying.
Kami is reading well in my book. I see a good comback to D-V #158. Calls out D-V for basically lying.
Tom votes Vaimes. GD asks why.
I had the same question but i have learned not to tunnel tom even if he does things like this.
GD however, i feel should know better.
He also shades Osie for his GJ vote.(#183) Feels like he could be scum with GJ if one or the other flips Scum. That is a pretty bold defense of him actually. with no reason as to why he sees GJ as town at this point.'
Asks Vezok to Join him on Osie.(#186) Hmm.. Again, a close scumread. Coaching?
D_V ARGUES WITH VAIMES AND THEN SAYS NOT TO GO TO A WAGON ON HIM. WHAT. WHAT,... WHAT.
Osies 189 seals my townread on him and everyone who thinks he is scum can fight me.
Be calm my smol bean, Rodemy has you in his arms *IN THE ARRRRMS OOOFFF AN ANGEEEL. FLY AWAAAAAAY*
I like his vote on Dan. GOOD STUFF.
(oh hey the IRL wine is kicking in.)
Vezok calling DV and Vaimes town.
OKAY. SO.
Rodemy
Osie
Kaz
Anuk
Tom
GJ
Tubba
Kpaca
Fuwa
Dan
D_V
Vezok
Vaimes
LETS GO.
(sorry booze kicked in. I AM OUT)
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The reason I asked osie about his read on me was because he observed F&E and I didn't think it made sense for me to wind up as his only/strongest scumlean despite him thinking I have a scummy playstyle.
The GJ thing in RVS is nonsense. This is his first game in a while, so I asked him how he was doing because he's a person, not a gaming construct.
And you can't see town!me being defensive? Really? I was on the defense in F&E for basically the whole game.
When I told you to stop tinfoiling, things like "Vaimes and DV are scum together!!" are what I meant.
I like anuks question to vaimes about where his statistics about townbloc being scum come from. Like i said, He saw it last game as scummy and it feels like he is using it to mislynch tom, who at that point had done nothing towny or scummy (which IMO makes a good mislynch candidate)
What on earth is this? Anak never asked me anything about towblocks. Who saw townblocking last game as scummy? If you're talking about me, I thought Iso having an iron grip on the PoE was scummy because literally all of the people he wanted to lynch were town. Why would scum!me want to mislynch tom? He almost always defends me, even when he claims he can't read me.
I like anuks question to vaimes about where his statistics about townbloc being scum come from. Like i said, He saw it last game as scummy and it feels like he is using it to mislynch tom, who at that point had done nothing towny or scummy (which IMO makes a good mislynch candidate)
What on earth is this? Anak never asked me anything about towblocks. Who saw townblocking last game as scummy? If you're talking about me, I thought Iso having an iron grip on the PoE was scummy because literally all of the people he wanted to lynch were town. Why would scum!me want to mislynch tom? He almost always defends me, even when he claims he can't read me.
I MEANT VEZOK HOLY ***** CUT ME SLACK
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And why on earth do you care what I think of the rest of your reads if you think I’m scum?
To get your teamates. Duh.
No but you literally just want to comment on everything pertaining to you. You have no comments or anything to add which kinda makes me think you are scum even more.
Like, if you were town, i'd think you'd try and guide me to other reads instead of saying. HEY IT'S NOT ME. YOU ARE WRONG.
That doesn't work when playing this game and i fail to see how you haven't learned that by now.
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No offense but I don’t really have the energy to guide you through games.
I’ll comment on the rest of it after I eat.
And yeah, asking people about me helps me see who’s scum trying to mislynch me and who’s town. It helped me townread Killjoy, it helped me scumread Iso. Since it works for me, I’m going to keep doing it.
I'm not trying to misrep you, I'm trying to understand you, but I feel like it's just going to make it worse if I keep poking you, so.
That's done.
Some how in this sentence, you've attempted to diffuse the argument, but also not admitted what you have argued is wrong. You are still trying to keep me painted in a negative light, while also trying to walk away.
I will be auto-scumreading everyone who refers to "wolf" rather than "scum" or "mafia".
Tomsloger obv scumslip with mario hat.
No more than one scum exists in DV/vaimes/g_d. The rest are sitting back letting the argument serve as a distraction/cover.
Gut shot reads: g_d feels the towniest; best reasoning. D_V is the scum, pushing Vaimes because he thinks he can get away with it. Smells like faux righteous indignation.
I'm going to give an interesting response to this.
Even if I'm scum its never faux. Its also interesting that you ignore mentioning Vaimes at all.
Can you not do this yourself. ****.
"It's also interesting that you ignore mentioning vaimes at all". Like what the **** did that even mean.
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Jeeh wiz.
IDK some insight into you as a player.
An understanding of what is going on.
Who the **** knows? I really just did it for the lulz and because I thought it was fun.
Why the **** did you even ask this question?
Are you just going for post count without thinking about the game at all?
I just wanted to know publicly displaying the results of a meta search like that were something you do as scum.
You didn't ask that at all.
That wasn't even worded in your question.
Yes. I'm scum. I did it as scum.
There you're amazing question worked.
How the **** were you ever considered a good player?
And yes there is a lot of reason for this hostility.
You've whined constantly about me "Nit picking you." Yet you ask dumb ass questions like this. Or your 200 IQ question to Kpaca. You're the one nit picking asking worthless questions. Yet me asking you anything = DV is nit picking me.
I’m out for a bit.
This is reminiscent of Vaimes/Killjoy in F&E, but decidedly more heated. I'd place that at your feet. I don't think this level of abrasiveness is very helpful for town or solving. A scream fight won't actually unearth any reads. I'd be happy to look at a Vaimes case, but all I see when I read your posts are hammerstrokes and f-bombs. I would never vote with that. If you honestly think Vaimes is scum, pitch your case to the class instead of arguing in circles with him.
@Vaimes
Grape is decidedly more quiet this game, but I think it's way too early to read much into that.
I've never understood this reasoning.
Swearing doesn't invalidate or strengthen a case. If your entire argument against the case is that there is too much swearing then I can't help you. I actively won't help you, because I think that kind of thinking is reductive.
If you need a bullet point of the "Case" its sort of spread out.
A. Vaimes is ******* shading pretty much everyone with his questions.
B. Vaimes is whining about me questioning his attacks on people, while he nit picks others in an attempt to make them look bad.
C. Vaimes has the highest post count in the game and I can't tell you what his position is on more than half of the game.
D. Vaimes vote count is ******* baffeling. He has voted LW for **** knows what reason. Then turned around and voted Tomslogger a player that he didn't ******* say god damn anything about. He also has yet to follow up this vote.
E. Following this Vaimes has placed his vote on random ass people, then ******* done nothing with it. Then ******* attacked other people. He just parking his god damn vote and I have no clue why. Probably because he doesn't actually have a case on it.
F. Vaimes has multiple times said he was leaving the thread last night and kept popping in. This reeks of scum needing to read for reactions of his posts.
G. We have some sort of dumb ass reason for not voting Vaimes, because and I quote "I've seen scum make wagons on him".
H. Nobody has given any reason to town read Vaimes.
I. He has the highest post count in the game, yet its totally trash. HIS OMGUS on Kpaca was so ******* scummy I'm surprised an entire swamp didn't spawn in the thread the moment he made that vote.
Need I go on?
Not getting much else from what he's saying, but
Decent chance him/kpaca/vaimes are all town just wasting everyone's time
I am not saying that Vaimes has done a stellar job or has maintained the high ground in this epic level slapfight but god dammit that open level of hostility you're showing is throwing me off.
You going to comment on the case or just sit on the sidelines?
It's not that I'm adverse to swearing, but the play style of railing away and swearing without really making a case. If you just spit and snarl at each other for the sake of spitting and snarling, there's very little to read off of or go into. These bullet points are very helpful in breaking down why you think Vaimes is scum, and something that other players can work with.
No dude.
You haven't thought this through at all.
As soon as the games started Vaimes basically told me to "**** off" with his "I find you asking me questions annoying". I've asked him repeatedly what he wants me to do. Because hes doing shady *****, and hes asking dumb questions. I'm attempting to understand why he is playing the way he is. However, he keeps complaining about me asking him questions. Whining about it.
The answer to his question. The one he doesn't have the balls to type. Is that he doesn't want me in the game. Or he wants me to ignore him, because he is on planet Vaimes and gets to do what ever he wants to do. Regardless of how scummy or *****ty it is as him as person to do so. He wants to play his own game, and **** the rest of us. Why should he be accountable for his own actions?
Meanwhile when Kpaca votes him. He attempts to "1v1" kpaca, which read not only as an OMGUS vote. But also as an attempt to bully kpaca to go elsewhere.
DV man I understand and agree with a lot of points you have with Vaimes right now. I nor anyone else really have an issue with that, it's more the fact that you're attacking him personally and not just his play this game. Some people have different responses to swearing but that's not the issue, it's lines like "How the **** we're you ever a good player"
That's not cool man, and if directed at me I would probably resign myself to getting lynched then play in six months maybe. Like I enjoy you and your playstyle but ***** I'm feeling bad for Vaimes at this point.
Pick apart his actions, call him scum all day long, but that ***** has to stop man. He didn't run over your dog or anything, we are all here to play a game for fun.
I also feel tubba is town too. Tom feels surprisngly town this game.
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Unvote
Wanna elaborate on that Tom statement? Did you expect him to be scum and be surprised that he wasn't? Surprised that sitting on the sidelines gives you town vibes?
I'll take a look. Damage control is a big call early. Was that wrt his own alignment or was it about buddies?
On Vaimes how does that add up to being willing to lynch? You only talk about temperament.
Why did you pull those 3 particular people out from everyone else to specify them as "ehh"
Still slowly catching up.
F doesn't seem alignment indicative. He's under pressure and I would respond similarly as either alignment.
G isn't really on Vaimes, could be buddy rescue, could be white knighting.
H I don't like, it's not really a fair stance to take. It's too open to interpretation.
I in F&E Vaimes post count was through the roof, and a lot of it was LAMIST and town clearing himself. He was town then, so at this point I'm chalking it up as NAI.
J also in F&E Vaimes/Killjoy, KJ pointed out how it looked like Vaimes was trying to make him look bad, so again at this point I'd have to say NAI.
The last points are based off last game, and I don't like meta reads but meta is a thing.
Based on your earlier points, I'd like to hear Vaimes response, minus the slap fighting.
A. I have expressed suspicion towards several players, but I haven't thrown shade. I don't consider those to be the same thing at all.
B. Again, expressing suspicion =/= shade. I haven't nitpicked anyone; any question I ask is to try and see how a person is thinking about the game. Most of DV's questions towards me feel like he's already decided I'm scum and that he's going to pick apart my answers and use them to ask even more questions, rinse, repeat.
C. I've expressed some townreads and some scumreads. I don't hammer them home that much.
D. I explained why I thought LW could be scum. Sometimes I don't vote in the same post when I talk about a scumread. I explained why I thought tom might be scum.
E. I vote one person and express suspicion towards others. It's D1, there are several scum alive, and I'm not really constructing concrete scumteams in my head. Just pointing out things I think are weird or don't like.
I'm leaning town on Wuffles and osie.
tom and Fuwa are scummy question marks.
I changed my mind on Grape and am content to let him do his thing for a bit.
Don't really have strong opinions on anyone else. I'll try to rectify that when I feel like playing some more.
Time to do some reads. Please hold.
Also, D-V just skimming and not knowing context you gotta chill the **** out man.
YOu did this ***** in Iso's game and it was a huge game killer.
Stop, It's a ****in game.
while I think about some things. I'll be back.
Quote where you said Tom or LW could be scum in any sort of capacity other than a trivial. "They could be scum"
Notice the word trivial.
If someone else did this would you believe anything they were saying?
I just don't get how someone with as many posts as you has that little and meaningless scum hunting.
Vezok, alas, i cannot be as cool as you and fake a scumread on someone to pull the scumteam :[ I TRIED OKAY!?
Okay D-V coming out the gate with the accusations. Not really Alignment indicative but still strange concidering he doesn't explain. Concidering he is now in a huge argument with vaimes, i am thinking there is something here in his vaimes accusation.
Osi with his reads list. Thought out. That vaimes vote was bad, but there was a reason behind it and i there is some townieness in that. gotta find scum somehow.
I actually like his reads on Wuffles. That gimmick doesn't do anything and that buddying to vaimes seems intentional.
Tom says his reads list is a flail. Gleams a few replies, nothing eye catching. I'm on board with Vezoks reads of Kpaca and Vaimes. Kpaca is giving off some weird vibes at this point being "confused" and i am not sure but hasn't he played a bunch before?
Grape has some decent questions of osies walls. good analysis.
Wuffles posts some.. very boring stuff. Like, he makes a weird star warsesque quip at osie and then says he's never played with him before, like he is justifying his.. i have to say kind of scumread? Idk what this is..
(guys keeping track of things is hard :[)
Dear ******* god Tubba is Jar Jar. KILL IT WITH FIRE.
Okay so GD's vote on Osie is an eye catcher. He says it's serious. this is a first good start in my serious scumleans.
FUWA Points out Vaimes #24 is shady and i cannot see it whatsoever. He doesn't believe Kpaca didn't know what Pocketing was. And i had to tell him i just learned yesterday what it was. So it was just a question? I don't see anything suspicious bout it.
Vaimes gets defensive about osies reads list.. and ohhh boy.
I cannot see a town vaimes having this much defense against osies reads list. We KNOW it was early. We KNOW it was kinda pulled from nothing. But he is very defensive anyway.
Osies reply to it was actually beautiful. It shows actual effort and i like that.
and kpaca back with his questions that have nothing to do with what is going on.
Serious accusation coming outta vezok here. I don't like it actually. Feels like he was using Iso's last scum attempt at the townbloc to mudsling tom for making it. I do not like I do not like. I DO NOT LIKE. That knocked him down a few points.
GJ comes in and calls osies reads list wolfy. Okay, so. I am gonna have a scumlean on him due to the fact he just says it's wolfy and doesn't vote him.
I like anuks question to vaimes about where his statistics about townbloc being scum come from. Like i said, He saw it last game as scummy and it feels like he is using it to mislynch tom, who at that point had done nothing towny or scummy (which IMO makes a good mislynch candidate)
Last Whisper is right on target with where i am at in the game. (#95)
Okay so D_V is trying to make sense of toms towncore reads. Which, if i know tom, was probably a probe to see where people are on these people. He picked 3 people who aren't actually HXC town and it's kinda obvious. D_V actually points it out. GG D_V.
Okay, i am gonna have to go soon so i will read more, write less.
I like GJs 100. It is a good defense. He does kinda go off the rails a little later, but again, reads as frustration than anything.
VAIMES goes after D-V and it is poor. Asking if he is scum saying he is making things up. making a narrative D-V is scum. I see.
And D-V is warming up to me. (#103)
I might actually barn D-V on his Vaimes and Vezok Reads. D-V for town!? HOLY ***** WHAT HAS HAPPENED.
okay, all my thoughts on osies list aside, G_D makes a good point in 108 about sayign people with >5 posts need to post more a page in is.. useless. But as scum, i don't see osie doing it. it is too obvious and dangerous to do that poor of a list that early.
But dan comes from a very reasonable stance. Town for now, but the attack might be scum trying to push an easy lynch on osie.
God now D-V and vaimes are into it. Seeing as at this point i see D-V as town and Vaimes as kinda scummy i am gonna stop here. Like, if they are still going at it on page 10, i want to get them sorted out. D-V fights as scum. Vaimes.. doesn't look good when the fight starts. This is what has me at a very weird read. Like, D-V seems town, but he is arguing and getting anger and i have only seem him as scum so i see scum DV when he does this.
Omg im not on page 4 yet.
can the scumteam just.. out themselves. I don't wanna do this anymore.
Okay
vote vaimes
D_V wants Vaimes to admit he is wrong? Like.. what? is this real? (#149)
I actually hate his reply to Kami. I think D_V is arguing with Vaimes as S/S it feel like this is possible concidering the 2 are.. mouthy.
And dan is calling it T/T.
At this point i am gonna skim over what they are arguing about and not actually gonna base anymore reads off of them replying to one another. Only what others are saying.
Kami is reading well in my book. I see a good comback to D-V #158. Calls out D-V for basically lying.
Tom votes Vaimes. GD asks why.
I had the same question but i have learned not to tunnel tom even if he does things like this.
GD however, i feel should know better.
He also shades Osie for his GJ vote.(#183) Feels like he could be scum with GJ if one or the other flips Scum. That is a pretty bold defense of him actually. with no reason as to why he sees GJ as town at this point.'
Asks Vezok to Join him on Osie.(#186) Hmm.. Again, a close scumread. Coaching?
D_V ARGUES WITH VAIMES AND THEN SAYS NOT TO GO TO A WAGON ON HIM. WHAT. WHAT,... WHAT.
Osies 189 seals my townread on him and everyone who thinks he is scum can fight me.
Be calm my smol bean, Rodemy has you in his arms *IN THE ARRRRMS OOOFFF AN ANGEEEL. FLY AWAAAAAAY*
I like his vote on Dan. GOOD STUFF.
(oh hey the IRL wine is kicking in.)
Vezok calling DV and Vaimes town.
OKAY. SO.
Rodemy
Osie
Kaz
Anuk
Tom
GJ
Tubba
Kpaca
Fuwa
Dan
D_V
Vezok
Vaimes
LETS GO.
(sorry booze kicked in. I AM OUT)
The GJ thing in RVS is nonsense. This is his first game in a while, so I asked him how he was doing because he's a person, not a gaming construct.
And you can't see town!me being defensive? Really? I was on the defense in F&E for basically the whole game.
When I told you to stop tinfoiling, things like "Vaimes and DV are scum together!!" are what I meant.
What on earth is this? Anak never asked me anything about towblocks. Who saw townblocking last game as scummy? If you're talking about me, I thought Iso having an iron grip on the PoE was scummy because literally all of the people he wanted to lynch were town. Why would scum!me want to mislynch tom? He almost always defends me, even when he claims he can't read me.
I MEANT VEZOK HOLY ***** CUT ME SLACK
I'm not even certain some of the things hes talking about are in this game.
Rod can you quote and explain exactly what you mean with the ka posts with me?
If anything, you should be cutting me some slack.
What? I don't even know what that means.
I find it HILARIOUS that all of it pertains to you.
To get your teamates. Duh.
No but you literally just want to comment on everything pertaining to you. You have no comments or anything to add which kinda makes me think you are scum even more.
Like, if you were town, i'd think you'd try and guide me to other reads instead of saying. HEY IT'S NOT ME. YOU ARE WRONG.
That doesn't work when playing this game and i fail to see how you haven't learned that by now.
You made comments about Kami.
Quote and defend them.
I’ll comment on the rest of it after I eat.
And yeah, asking people about me helps me see who’s scum trying to mislynch me and who’s town. It helped me townread Killjoy, it helped me scumread Iso. Since it works for me, I’m going to keep doing it.
Can you not do this yourself. ****.
"It's also interesting that you ignore mentioning vaimes at all". Like what the **** did that even mean.