Well last is basically mod confirmed tracker at this point.
Town only role.
Still hate wuffles reaction there even though it wasn't true.
Maybe especially?
Like, didn't think last was gambiting scum even for a second?
He probably is messenger though. Would be pretty dumb to claim a provable role but that's an NAI role
Maybe he did derp that those could be scum roles but... I don't really buy it
never tell me the odds of wuffles derping.
And I'm actually just super tired of you trying to tell me I knew wisp was town before it became obvious.
Like, okay, I do think of wisp as someone who goes with his gut over careful thread analysis. I freely admit that I think that someone like KJ who carefully reviews threads looking for links between motivations is someone I am more likely to gravitate towards trusting by default. But like as soon as you tried to seriously create momentum to get him run up, I saw how scummy that was, and started town reading wisp. That and the fact that he is playing what I consider (based on Arkham) his town game is enough for me to write him off as town at least day 1.
And while I knew he *could* have been gambitting town trying to push a D1 scumread of his (dumb move, but understandable) there is no reason why he would do that as scum. It makes no sense. Going one for one in a 2 mafia game when the next day wouldn't even be lylo? The worst move. I think you're flatly throwing shade at wisp if you seriously thought him scum gambitting was a thing he'd do, and I think you're looking down on me pretty hard by saying me not assuming wisp was pulling a scum gambit was wrong. It did cross my mind, obviously, because what wisp was saying WAS wrong,but like...wisp would be the worst mafia player on MTGS if he tried to fake that result as scum on me. It's just not a trade that a scum (wisp or otherwise) would make.
Yeah, I'm not saying that a KJ RB was likely, only that it's a statistical possibility above zero.
I also think you're asking the wrong questions if you're asking Tom to reveal his night actions tbh. He already implied he was Baker if I'm no mistaken and that he force-fed...KJ? Urgh going back to check is a pain in the ass on a mobile.
Morning all. I'm the JK and targetted KJ. Actually shocked that Vez doc'd me. Appreciative but shocked. Have to figure out if that changes anything in my notes on Vez...
Well Grape is clear all around, he can never be scum
Killjoy is clear well, because hes town, end of story
Motivator(town)/Roleblocker(scum) This role, has to be somewhere or doesnt exist...
Bulletproof(town)/Ninja(scum) Wuffles could still be scum, but he would have to be here and probably the ninja
Doctor(town)/Redirector(scum) Vez claimed doctor... did anyone get redirected?
Tracker(town)/Strongman(scum) I am the tracker, so ya
Watcher(town)/Thief(scum) still dont know whos here?
Jailkeeper Grape, he is town
Messenger Wuffles??? or is he?
Baker unconfirmed
people need to full claim, that includes Killjoy (I mean hes town, but I need to clear some roles)
Tom, and Kami both need to claim
1. KamikazeKazin ???
2. Wuffles_II Messenger, my tinfoil is that he is ninja, only because he said he didnt use his role, which makes no ******* sense to me
3. tomsloger ???
4. Vezokpiraka Doctor/Redirector
5. Rumanshi/Grape Jailor (always town)
6. Killjoy ???
7. Lastwhisper Tracker
So I had this big case on Vezok put together and I was pretty sure he was scum. But he made the first claim. And I wasn't redirected. So he's probably just telling the truth because it would be super risky to lie about that. And I didn't receive a piece of bread or get RB'd, or die.
So the only unclaimed thing he could have done to visit me as scum is thief and that's possible but it would require him being the thief and no one (or his buddy but that is super risky) having the Doc/Redirect role. But it's a corner case and would probably require an intentional no kill from him, which seems super unlikely given the no lynch.
So like I think he's just town here. And wisp is just town here. And we probably blocked a kill. So that's a pretty awesome result for the night. KJ is still really townie behaviorally. Going to look at KamiKazin, tom, and Wuffles as I have time this afternoon.
I ****ed up on Wuffles, before, but there are still inconsistencies, like Tom said, his posts seemed off, and its a legit possibility that he may actually be the ninja , and his AtE wont sway me
Wisp man what are you talking about? Why is KJ clear? Why am I clear? With there being two protects claimed and a chance a third was used we don't really know what happened to the kill.
I think Vezo claiming to target me before watcher and tracker claims happened makes him really townie. I agree Wuffles not using messenger last night is weird. Less weird than if it was a different for town and scum role but still weird. But Wuffles was so townie D1.
Wisp man what are you talking about? Why is KJ clear? Why am I clear? With there being two protects claimed and a chance a third was used we don't really know what happened to the kill.
I think Vezo claiming to target me before watcher and tracker claims happened makes him really townie. I agree Wuffles not using messenger last night is weird. Less weird than if it was a different for town and scum role but still weird. But Wuffles was so townie D1.
I need to reread and I really can't be bothered.
????????????????????????????? wtf is up with ur posts on me? why do u question the dumbest *****???? I literally dont understand the way you think sometimes????
can u confirm Vez's Doctor? no... can we confirm ur jailor? yes... also nothing proves you were the one attacked, killjoy was an optimally decent nk for scum...
also stop arguing semantics with me, u are irritating the **** out of me, I cant sit here and wait for mechanics to clear someone, no flips, means not clears, so **** me for assuming that killjoy didnt make the night kill... I could wine myself here all day, if I didnt remove ***** from my poe
sigh, not feeling it right now, getting off for the night
you may not like clearing people based on gut, but I do, and I will continue to do it, whether you like it or not
everyone always seems to have a problem with how I play the game, like you ******* tell me I am townie, but dont like calling me town? like who the **** cares about this semantics bull*****...
this would all be totally different right now, if we had something to rely on, other than just mechanics, but none of you could be bothered to be around for the EoD...
.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................
yep, no... getting off before i say something that will get me reported
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Wisp I think you're town here. My point with Vezo is that he claimed before any investigates have. If he didn't actually target me last night that is super risky. If he isn't specifically the thief and knows that the Doc isn't in the game that is such an incredibly risky play.
Like I'm sorry I ticked you off but gut clears aren't clears, Vez is at least as clear as KJ and I are, but I'm not arguing any semantics here. Like I'm sorry you're angry, but read what I'm saying here.
And yeah I wasn't around at the EoD. I'm sorry. I went to a candlelight vigil ended up staying out. You better believe that I would have hammered KK if I'd been here. I hate no lynches with a passion and they are especially bad in this setup. We are so lucky we blocked a kill after that because if we hadn't we'd be in a Mylo on D2.
actually ill just pull back on everything since nothing is confirmed like you say, and just post all my tinfoil
1. Killjoy made the night kill and was blocked by you, in this case u arent scum, and I cant really deduce right now who would be scum with him
2. Wuffles is actually the ninja, which would explain his weird reaction to me saying I tracked him to killjoy, in this case u are not scum
3. Vez is scum, and claimed he doctored u because the scum kill was stopped somewhere, which would in case there probably isnt a ninja
4. Kami is scum, because hes posts suck ass, with Tom most likely
@killjoy why didnt you use ur ability?
@Wuffles why didnt you use ur ability again?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
actually ill just pull back on everything since nothing is confirmed like you say, and just post all my tinfoil
1. Killjoy made the night kill and was blocked by you, in this case u arent scum, and I cant really deduce right now who would be scum with him
This is technically possible but feels unlikely to me. KJ was just so townie D1. And I have no grasp on who he could be buddies with.
2. Wuffles is actually the ninja, which would explain his weird reaction to me saying I tracked him to killjoy, in this case u are not scum
Mmmm that would make sense. But I just think wuffles is pretty townie. I'll take another look when I finally get around to rereading.
3. Vez is scum, and claimed he doctored u because the scum kill was stopped somewhere, which would in case there probably isnt a ninja
Why though? Neither tracker or Doc had claimed, what would scum!Vezok have to gain by fake claiming a visit to me before any investigatives had claimed targets or results. And why would the kill being blocked prompt him to want to target me?
4. Kami is scum, because hes posts suck ass, with Tom most likely
A. That's not tinfoil. B. It's a bit rude given what one of the K's said about his wife just having come out of surgery. C. They have been largely absent and I want more but I'm not in a rush right now. We have time and I don't want to rush to any conclusions.
KK just has made 0 impression on me. Without looking I couldn't tell you a single stance they have. I think there is a decent chance they are scum just by PoE but I don't actively have reason to think it. I really need to do this reread but I can't be bothered right now.
Wisp, you sound like you need a sleep and maybe a hug.
Grape, I don't see why it's worth pushing wisp on that; he's lock town and pushing him isn't going to help us lynch scum.
I'm sorry for not being there at the deadline; it was at 1am wuffles time and I had work in the morning. I placed my final vote and had to leave it at that. Fortunately osie seems to have learned a hard lesson from that too so hopefully that kinda timing won't happen again.
Wuffles
ur right I do need sleep, and I dont think Grape is trying to push me... I want to work with him, but hes irritating, and a little to laid back for my liking (except for attacking me train of thought), and his attacks on me, not once but twice, seem out of place
So if Wisp is town and KJ and Vez are likely town that leaves KK, Tom, and Wuffles.
KK being town:???
KK being scum:???
Tom being town: tonal excitement at feeling like he'd solved the game. His Wuffles/Wisp/I'm bad 40/35/25 post is the best example of that. He locked himself into two pushes and would have to contradict himself pretty heavily to vote elsewhere.
Tom being scum: He's content with his case. Which undermines the excitement tell a bit. Could be confidence he found scum but he was pretty much done pointing to new things by midway through D2. Also he started today talking about an unexplained seemingly bandwagon town read on me.
Wuffles being town: the reaction to tom's explanation of his playstyle reads annoyed town. Being tracked to no one means he didn't perform the kill attempt unless ninja, which would be stupid after locking himself into a messenger claim.
Wuffles being scum: his case on tom is really bad. Just like nonexistent.
Grape, I don't see why it's worth pushing wisp on that; he's lock town and pushing him isn't going to help us lynch scum.
If he's wrong or his reasons are bad I'm going to argue with him. Doesn't matter if he's town or not we need everyone on the same page. Also point to me pushing him.
Actually Wuffles being a ninja doesn't make any sense at all. I take that one back.
no, if your gunna completely remove it from the picture, then tell me why
Not going to, and don't bother asking again. Just don't believe it's a possibility anymore.
Talk to me about Vezok some more. Walk me through scum!Vezok scenario's when you get back in the morning. If he hadn't instantly claimed I could buy that he's scum here but it was the first claim of the day so I think he had to visit me. And I wasn't roleblocked or killed and I didn't receive bread from him so there isn't much left that targets. Just Thief, Doc, and Watcher. And I don't think lying about being the other town role makes any sense.
Grapefruit
nah I was bit preemptive, and a little angry, Vez cant be scum...
like you said, scum is in Wuffles, KK, and Tom, with the current information we have...
still need killjoy, kami, and Tom to claim their roles, and who they used them on
Left out redirector. Which I also wasn't redirected. Unless they redirected me back to my original target of KJ, but I think I'd still be notified in that case. And plus why would they redirect me to KJ and then try harder to confirm that I'm town by saying that they doc'd me.
Left out redirector. Which I also wasn't redirected. Unless they redirected me back to my original target of KJ, but I think I'd still be notified in that case. And plus why would they redirect me to KJ and then try harder to confirm that I'm town by saying that they doc'd me.
yeah none of that makes any sense.
it doesnt, and I agree in a way, but I dont think you would know you were redirected if it was to the person you targeted anyways, because of the way he would word it, we discussed it little during DV's game...
probably more in the sense, "you have successful targeting your target", and probably change the target name if you were redirected, either way I dont think its in game, and cant see why Vez would claim doctor without knowing if their was a tracker or watcher, if he wasnt really the doctor
Watcher. Targeted grape. Saw vezok and only vezok.
So:
-Grape was targeted for kill by exactly ninja
-kj was the target of kill
-kj tried to perform the kill
-bulletproof was the kill
-intentional no kill (idr who said it but that would probably be scum vezok. Both positionally and by claim. But he did target grape so... Probably not vezok?)
which is a complete contradiction to what I said before, but I had sometime to think about how and why Vez could/would lie, about being the doctor even if it was the unused role, and I couldn't find any reason
Tom
you claim this now? haha, after Vezok claims, and after theres literally almost no one to counter claim you, or catch ur lie, aka Kami which imo could be your scum buddy???
also why grape by ninja, and not killjoy?
tonally what do you think of killjoy though?
Grape
do you normally use the jailer role on people you believe are town, rather than those that you believe are scum?
Killjoy
claim your god damn role
still dont know what to think of Toms claim... hes so good at claiming as scum, too god damn good I swear
Watcher. Targeted grape. Saw vezok and only vezok.
So:
-Grape was targeted for kill by exactly ninja
-kj was the target of kill
-kj tried to perform the kill
-bulletproof was the kill
-intentional no kill (idr who said it but that would probably be scum vezok. Both positionally and by claim. But he did target grape so... Probably not vezok?)
Scum in wuffles/kami/kj?
Like, ~never 0. Maybe 2.
Ohhhh that is spicy.
So Vezok scenario's are now down he doc'd me or he's scum with exactly tom. Which seems unlikely given the way they fast pushed Wisp together to start the game. So he probably just doc'd me and is town. Well at the very least I'm never lynching Vezok before tom and tom flipping town would lock Vezok as clear I think.
On the kill scenario's the BP would have to be KK and I don't see them ever being the NK target so I'm going to scratch that one off. So I think we're down to ninja tried to kill me, intentional no kill, or kill on KJ/KJ attempting to perform the kill.
Unless someone jailed or blocked someone else grape is pretty much cleared.
Mmmmm. Grape/Vezok unaligned
I also think that unless there's a BP, Grape is actually cleared. In the world where I was shot last night, Grape saved me and doesn't do that if he's on the team shooting at me.In the world where Vez is doc and protected him from the nightkill, he's also town.
Well last is basically mod confirmed tracker at this point.
Town only role.
Still hate wuffles reaction there even though it wasn't true.
Maybe especially?
Like, didn't think last was gambiting scum even for a second?
He probably is messenger though. Would be pretty dumb to claim a provable role but that's an NAI role
Maybe he did derp that those could be scum roles but... I don't really buy it
I agree that scum probably don't fakeclaim roles not in the top 5.
...You are not trying to solve this game at all. You are just trying to push through lynches. You are scum.
It's either Tom/Vezok or Kami/Vezok. I'm coming around to thinking I'm wrong on tom though.
In a scum!Vezok world, Vezok is redirector but just never uses his ability to try to make it on a doc claim.
Actually, Vezok including tom in the lynchpool makes them being aligned unlikely. Tom/Vezok likely unaligned
Meaning it's probably Vezok/Kami.
Wisp I think you're town here. My point with Vezo is that he claimed before any investigates have. If he didn't actually target me last night that is super risky. If he isn't specifically the thief and knows that the Doc isn't in the game that is such an incredibly risky play.
Like I'm sorry I ticked you off but gut clears aren't clears, Vez is at least as clear as KJ and I are, but I'm not arguing any semantics here. Like I'm sorry you're angry, but read what I'm saying here.
And yeah I wasn't around at the EoD. I'm sorry. I went to a candlelight vigil ended up staying out. You better believe that I would have hammered KK if I'd been here. I hate no lynches with a passion and they are especially bad in this setup. We are so lucky we blocked a kill after that because if we hadn't we'd be in a Mylo on D2.
Actually, this is a fair point. It could mean that the scumteam is Redirector/Thief. knowing full well that there's no watcher.
Or, actually. Maybe they just didn't kill. That's possible too I think.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Watcher. Targeted grape. Saw vezok and only vezok.
So:
-Grape was targeted for kill by exactly ninja
-kj was the target of kill
-kj tried to perform the kill
-bulletproof was the kill
-intentional no kill (idr who said it but that would probably be scum vezok. Both positionally and by claim. But he did target grape so... Probably not vezok?)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Tom
you claim this now? haha, after Vezok claims, and after theres literally almost no one to counter claim you, or catch ur lie, aka Kami which imo could be your scum buddy???
also why grape by ninja, and not killjoy?
It definitely doesn't clear tom, but it's a really great look for Vez outside exactly tom/Vez worlds. Impossible for Vez to be scum without him outside of the redirected to KJ scenario's.
It could have been a ninja to kill KJ but it wouldn't have to be. If I was the kill target it had to be exactly the ninja from his PoV.
Grape
do you normally use the jailer role on people you believe are town, rather than those that you believe are scum?
Don't think I've ever been a JK before, but how I'd try to use it is incredibly context dependent. I went for an attempt at using it like a doc protect here because of the refunding of tokens and I had such a strong town read on KJ.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ehhh just got confirmation from Osie that I wouldn't have been notified if I was redirected to KJ. So Vezo isn't lock clear, but I'm not really sure what the point of redirecting me to KJ is if they're holstering. Unless they really did try to kill KK and he's BP, but I just don't understand why they'd do that at all.
You're saying the motivator gave me an extra shot? I was jailed so that would have gotten blocked.
Who said that?
Also if you're the baker that means KK is either the BP/Ninja or Motivator/RB. Assuming Wuffles did actually claim messenger. Which I think is true given how many people said it but I didn't actually see it.
Uggh... Now my head is hurting. That opens up all the weird corner case scenario's.
theres some kind of cache error going on right now, and Im saying that killjoy is probably the motivator, or the baker
also kinda cool that the jailor gives the token back, if it stops the night action
vote:Kami
Also wuffles there is no way killjoy is scum, only a town would protect him
And I'm actually just super tired of you trying to tell me I knew wisp was town before it became obvious.
Like, okay, I do think of wisp as someone who goes with his gut over careful thread analysis. I freely admit that I think that someone like KJ who carefully reviews threads looking for links between motivations is someone I am more likely to gravitate towards trusting by default. But like as soon as you tried to seriously create momentum to get him run up, I saw how scummy that was, and started town reading wisp. That and the fact that he is playing what I consider (based on Arkham) his town game is enough for me to write him off as town at least day 1.
And while I knew he *could* have been gambitting town trying to push a D1 scumread of his (dumb move, but understandable) there is no reason why he would do that as scum. It makes no sense. Going one for one in a 2 mafia game when the next day wouldn't even be lylo? The worst move. I think you're flatly throwing shade at wisp if you seriously thought him scum gambitting was a thing he'd do, and I think you're looking down on me pretty hard by saying me not assuming wisp was pulling a scum gambit was wrong. It did cross my mind, obviously, because what wisp was saying WAS wrong,but like...wisp would be the worst mafia player on MTGS if he tried to fake that result as scum on me. It's just not a trade that a scum (wisp or otherwise) would make.
Also Tom u haven't told me what u did last night...
Could still very well be kami/Tom
I don't even know anymore, it's been a long day, and I'm just tired...
Yeah, I'm not saying that a KJ RB was likely, only that it's a statistical possibility above zero.
I also think you're asking the wrong questions if you're asking Tom to reveal his night actions tbh. He already implied he was Baker if I'm no mistaken and that he force-fed...KJ? Urgh going back to check is a pain in the ass on a mobile.
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Last town tracker
Vezok is town doctor>>scum and that's the discarded role>>>>>>scum redirector.
Either kj or grape was the nightkill maybe (or BP, or they no killed) but they're kind of my top townreads anyway pending reread.
Kami exists.
Wuffles is messenger.
I'll get to that in a bit.
Killjoy is clear well, because hes town, end of story
Motivator(town)/Roleblocker(scum) This role, has to be somewhere or doesnt exist...
Bulletproof(town)/Ninja(scum) Wuffles could still be scum, but he would have to be here and probably the ninja
Doctor(town)/Redirector(scum) Vez claimed doctor... did anyone get redirected?
Tracker(town)/Strongman(scum) I am the tracker, so ya
Watcher(town)/Thief(scum) still dont know whos here?
Jailkeeper Grape, he is town
Messenger Wuffles??? or is he?
Baker unconfirmed
people need to full claim, that includes Killjoy (I mean hes town, but I need to clear some roles)
Tom, and Kami both need to claim
1. KamikazeKazin ???
2. Wuffles_II Messenger, my tinfoil is that he is ninja, only because he said he didnt use his role, which makes no ******* sense to me
3. tomsloger ???
4. Vezokpiraka Doctor/Redirector
5. Rumanshi/Grape Jailor (always town)
6. Killjoy ???
7. Lastwhisper Tracker
So the only unclaimed thing he could have done to visit me as scum is thief and that's possible but it would require him being the thief and no one (or his buddy but that is super risky) having the Doc/Redirect role. But it's a corner case and would probably require an intentional no kill from him, which seems super unlikely given the no lynch.
So like I think he's just town here. And wisp is just town here. And we probably blocked a kill. So that's a pretty awesome result for the night. KJ is still really townie behaviorally. Going to look at KamiKazin, tom, and Wuffles as I have time this afternoon.
also scum is between Wuffles/Kami/Tom/Vez
got stuff to do, ill be on later, or tomorrow
I think Vezo claiming to target me before watcher and tracker claims happened makes him really townie. I agree Wuffles not using messenger last night is weird. Less weird than if it was a different for town and scum role but still weird. But Wuffles was so townie D1.
I need to reread and I really can't be bothered.
can u confirm Vez's Doctor? no... can we confirm ur jailor? yes... also nothing proves you were the one attacked, killjoy was an optimally decent nk for scum...
also stop arguing semantics with me, u are irritating the **** out of me, I cant sit here and wait for mechanics to clear someone, no flips, means not clears, so **** me for assuming that killjoy didnt make the night kill... I could wine myself here all day, if I didnt remove ***** from my poe
you may not like clearing people based on gut, but I do, and I will continue to do it, whether you like it or not
this would all be totally different right now, if we had something to rely on, other than just mechanics, but none of you could be bothered to be around for the EoD...
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yep, no... getting off before i say something that will get me reported
Like I'm sorry I ticked you off but gut clears aren't clears, Vez is at least as clear as KJ and I are, but I'm not arguing any semantics here. Like I'm sorry you're angry, but read what I'm saying here.
And yeah I wasn't around at the EoD. I'm sorry. I went to a candlelight vigil ended up staying out. You better believe that I would have hammered KK if I'd been here. I hate no lynches with a passion and they are especially bad in this setup. We are so lucky we blocked a kill after that because if we hadn't we'd be in a Mylo on D2.
1. Killjoy made the night kill and was blocked by you, in this case u arent scum, and I cant really deduce right now who would be scum with him
2. Wuffles is actually the ninja, which would explain his weird reaction to me saying I tracked him to killjoy, in this case u are not scum
3. Vez is scum, and claimed he doctored u because the scum kill was stopped somewhere, which would in case there probably isnt a ninja
4. Kami is scum, because hes posts suck ass, with Tom most likely
@killjoy why didnt you use ur ability?
@Wuffles why didnt you use ur ability again?
This is technically possible but feels unlikely to me. KJ was just so townie D1. And I have no grasp on who he could be buddies with.
Mmmm that would make sense. But I just think wuffles is pretty townie. I'll take another look when I finally get around to rereading.
Why though? Neither tracker or Doc had claimed, what would scum!Vezok have to gain by fake claiming a visit to me before any investigatives had claimed targets or results. And why would the kill being blocked prompt him to want to target me?
A. That's not tinfoil. B. It's a bit rude given what one of the K's said about his wife just having come out of surgery. C. They have been largely absent and I want more but I'm not in a rush right now. We have time and I don't want to rush to any conclusions.
@Killjoy... I thought u mean u didnt use it at all, well who was ur target, and since ur role token is used, tell me what ur role was
Grape, I don't see why it's worth pushing wisp on that; he's lock town and pushing him isn't going to help us lynch scum.
I'm sorry for not being there at the deadline; it was at 1am wuffles time and I had work in the morning. I placed my final vote and had to leave it at that. Fortunately osie seems to have learned a hard lesson from that too so hopefully that kinda timing won't happen again.
ur right I do need sleep, and I dont think Grape is trying to push me... I want to work with him, but hes irritating, and a little to laid back for my liking (except for attacking me train of thought), and his attacks on me, not once but twice, seem out of place
KK being town:???
KK being scum:???
Tom being town: tonal excitement at feeling like he'd solved the game. His Wuffles/Wisp/I'm bad 40/35/25 post is the best example of that. He locked himself into two pushes and would have to contradict himself pretty heavily to vote elsewhere.
Tom being scum: He's content with his case. Which undermines the excitement tell a bit. Could be confidence he found scum but he was pretty much done pointing to new things by midway through D2. Also he started today talking about an unexplained seemingly bandwagon town read on me.
Wuffles being town: the reaction to tom's explanation of his playstyle reads annoyed town. Being tracked to no one means he didn't perform the kill attempt unless ninja, which would be stupid after locking himself into a messenger claim.
Wuffles being scum: his case on tom is really bad. Just like nonexistent.
again... you do realize that scum can use both their token ability, and factional night kill together???
But if Wuffles was the ninja, ur right, like why claim messenger when BG is an ok claim???
If he's wrong or his reasons are bad I'm going to argue with him. Doesn't matter if he's town or not we need everyone on the same page. Also point to me pushing him.
Not going to, and don't bother asking again. Just don't believe it's a possibility anymore.
Talk to me about Vezok some more. Walk me through scum!Vezok scenario's when you get back in the morning. If he hadn't instantly claimed I could buy that he's scum here but it was the first claim of the day so I think he had to visit me. And I wasn't roleblocked or killed and I didn't receive bread from him so there isn't much left that targets. Just Thief, Doc, and Watcher. And I don't think lying about being the other town role makes any sense.
Yeah I realize the first part. I'm not sure what the significance of it is wrt to Vezo or Wuffles.
nah I was bit preemptive, and a little angry, Vez cant be scum...
like you said, scum is in Wuffles, KK, and Tom, with the current information we have...
still need killjoy, kami, and Tom to claim their roles, and who they used them on
yeah none of that makes any sense.
probably more in the sense, "you have successful targeting your target", and probably change the target name if you were redirected, either way I dont think its in game, and cant see why Vez would claim doctor without knowing if their was a tracker or watcher, if he wasnt really the doctor
With that, I'm gonna claim
Watcher. Targeted grape. Saw vezok and only vezok.
So:
-Grape was targeted for kill by exactly ninja
-kj was the target of kill
-kj tried to perform the kill
-bulletproof was the kill
-intentional no kill (idr who said it but that would probably be scum vezok. Both positionally and by claim. But he did target grape so... Probably not vezok?)
Scum in wuffles/kami/kj?
Like, ~never 0. Maybe 2.
you claim this now? haha, after Vezok claims, and after theres literally almost no one to counter claim you, or catch ur lie, aka Kami which imo could be your scum buddy???
also why grape by ninja, and not killjoy?
tonally what do you think of killjoy though?
Grape
do you normally use the jailer role on people you believe are town, rather than those that you believe are scum?
Killjoy
claim your god damn role
still dont know what to think of Toms claim... hes so good at claiming as scum, too god damn good I swear
Ohhhh that is spicy.
So Vezok scenario's are now down he doc'd me or he's scum with exactly tom. Which seems unlikely given the way they fast pushed Wisp together to start the game. So he probably just doc'd me and is town. Well at the very least I'm never lynching Vezok before tom and tom flipping town would lock Vezok as clear I think.
On the kill scenario's the BP would have to be KK and I don't see them ever being the NK target so I'm going to scratch that one off. So I think we're down to ninja tried to kill me, intentional no kill, or kill on KJ/KJ attempting to perform the kill.
Mmmmm. Grape/Vezok unaligned
I also think that unless there's a BP, Grape is actually cleared. In the world where I was shot last night, Grape saved me and doesn't do that if he's on the team shooting at me.In the world where Vez is doc and protected him from the nightkill, he's also town.
You're pushier than usual.
I agree that scum probably don't fakeclaim roles not in the top 5.
...You are not trying to solve this game at all. You are just trying to push through lynches. You are scum.
It's either Tom/Vezok or Kami/Vezok. I'm coming around to thinking I'm wrong on tom though.
In a scum!Vezok world, Vezok is redirector but just never uses his ability to try to make it on a doc claim.
Actually, Vezok including tom in the lynchpool makes them being aligned unlikely. Tom/Vezok likely unaligned
Meaning it's probably Vezok/Kami.
He wouldn't need a huge lynchpool. Just two town,which his lynch pool above probably accomplishes (me, tom)
Actually, this is a fair point. It could mean that the scumteam is Redirector/Thief. knowing full well that there's no watcher.
Or, actually. Maybe they just didn't kill. That's possible too I think.
I still have my shot though? I tried to whip tom across the face with my baguette but Grape apperently stopped me from doing so.
Need to rethink.
It definitely doesn't clear tom, but it's a really great look for Vez outside exactly tom/Vez worlds. Impossible for Vez to be scum without him outside of the redirected to KJ scenario's.
It could have been a ninja to kill KJ but it wouldn't have to be. If I was the kill target it had to be exactly the ninja from his PoV.
Don't think I've ever been a JK before, but how I'd try to use it is incredibly context dependent. I went for an attempt at using it like a doc protect here because of the refunding of tokens and I had such a strong town read on KJ.
you got ur shot back because it didnt go through? didnt know that was a thing, probably the motivator then
Like actually wtf?
Who said that?
Also if you're the baker that means KK is either the BP/Ninja or Motivator/RB. Assuming Wuffles did actually claim messenger. Which I think is true given how many people said it but I didn't actually see it.
Uggh... Now my head is hurting. That opens up all the weird corner case scenario's.
Nah it's a JK thing (and probably an RB thing?) it refunds the token if it prevents an action.
also kinda cool that the jailor gives the token back, if it stops the night action