Dear lord. Why are you saying words like "fastest growing wagon" like that's a thing? It had one vote at that point. Mikey's made two. It's hte only wagon.
And whats the point of the "still feeling good" modifier?
Wut.
Wut.
Vote DotA
I had been rereading the end of day posts by Grape about Vezok and for some reason thought Grape had also voted him at the start of day two. After I posted in I realised exactly that, Mikey was only the second vote, but you had also voted not long after that. So I'm not wrong in that the Vezok wagon is growing quickly (3 votes in the first few posts of D2) and Mikey's vote felt opportunistic. Vaimes had already voted for Vez and it's very likely that Grape will come in toDay with a push on Vez as well unless the Dan flip has made him reevaluate his reads.
KJ's entry this day makes me think he is town. I had the exact same thoughts, someone on the Rumanashi wagon must have been scum, but I know it's not myself. My best bet is 1/2 out of Vaimes/Iso/Rodemy although I'm not convinced on either of them.
Kj's attack on Dota slightly confuses me. Dota was off the Ruma wagon.
I'll come back with the long awaited Mikey case in a few minutes.
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I combed through mikey's posts since the beginning. My initial scumread grew, at first, from his defense of Rumanashi. It simply didn't sit well with me. Why would anyone use mason cover on the largest wagon?
I then went back and noticed his lack of conviction, but I think that was a fluke and he is doing better right now.
anyway, presence of masons is going to make scum hunting a wee bit harder because you'll see the masons softing each others' partners by saying "nah I think they're town here", which is exactly what wolves like to do when someone looks like an easy wagon, so that later they can point at the lynch and say "I knew they were town!!!11!!11"
This is mikey's first post. Somehow his is exactly what he ended up doing day 1.
actually the suggestion to “prove” the Mason claims by asking for a third one is so bad I don’t really know how to take it
eh
the final mason will have to claim sooner rather than later because if we go into lylo with an unclaimed mason the wolf can counterclaim at that point
It's cleaner to have third claim imo
Pushing for a third mason claim. This might be just mikey not really understanding the setup, but it could also be role fishing.
Maybe I'm a little bit lost, because we have a claim that grapefruit and killjoy are both masons with an undisclosed third partner that has gone uncountered and uh
people are still suspicious of them?
Like c'mon if you think they're not the real masons then we need the actual mason team to claim
This came up when Rumanashi wagon was at 3 votes. Either mikey is town and was convinced Rumanashi is innoecent (doubtful) or scum trying to sow discord. If he was town I would have expected him trying to push a different wagon, but he still kept his Vaimes vote.
that world is too bizarre to think about. It has to be t/s.
Why does it have to be? What would be bizarre about that world?
I've seen lots of 1v1s in my time playing this game. That's not a t/t argument. T/t arguments always get heated, they butt heads, and it becomes irrational. This was a shade-flinging fest, and it's not entirely clear who won. T/S, definitely.
Ruma/shadow argument in off the grid was irrational and headbutting, but it was t/s. I feel like you are trying to push a dichtonomy when there isn't any.
More like I legitimately don't see a difference between this rumanshi and the rumanshi who, when tunneling on, was the biggest obstacle to winning last game. I'm not necessarily qualified to give meta reads on rumanshi, but if he was actually scum I think he'd at least try to be more consistent? Or like, he'd get micro-managed to death by his partners.
His entrance post from Off the Grid IV that vaimes quoted a while ago (I wanted to get to this but I had work today!) was something I thought was incredibly scummy, so saying that was town rumanshi and this is different isn't really gonna say much to me.
I feel a little bit overwhelmed right now between work and another TWG that I'm hosting that I need to write up a postgame for and magic online practice for GP Vegas so given that MTGS mafia takes so freaking long I'm going to put this game at low priority. I'll still be posting but probably only a short post in the morning before work and if I'm not tired a bigpost at night.
Rumanshi is absolutely the type of player to say "haha lynch me do it." I agree that if we have to lynch rumanshi it's better to do it early game because he's a wildcard, but do we really have to lynch him? He's not gonna defend himself. I'm guessing he's already decided he's dead with 5 votes on him. Besides, something something mason buddy
PS I'm still reading the thread fully and I'll get to whatever it was dan asked me later tonight in a second post.
I don't like this post at all. A rumanashi lynch is almost inevitable at this point and mikey continues to defend Rumanashi. Ruma was stubborn in Off the grid and was refusing to hammer scum, but he was playing the game in his way. This time he simply folded over after a bit of pressure.
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I also looked through ganderin's thoughts and I have no idea why he was killed. He didn't show strong suspicion on anyone, he didn't seemed linked to anyone which is necessary when mason hunting and he was on the Rumanashi wagon.
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I also looked through ganderin's thoughts and I have no idea why he was killed. He didn't show strong suspicion on anyone, he didn't seemed linked to anyone which is necessary when mason hunting and he was on the Rumanashi wagon.
I kind of hate this post but there is another part of me that loves it. Anyway I've not fully read and I've definitely not properly reevaluated yet but my early impression is I like the case against Rod. Get the movement against Mikey but think it's incorrect. And still think Vezok is scum but am not confident yet.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So I haven't read anymore but I've rhought more about that Vezo post. And I'm still torn. The positive first. It's bold. He's unafraid to delve into the NKA wine without drawing any conclusions which is pretty nervy to do under pressure.
But I hate literally everything else about it. His level 1 mason hunting check shouldn't be discussed, And him throwing in being on the wagon just rubs me wrong. But mostly the mason stuff. I don't know if it's town Vezo unwittingly doing scums work for them or if he's just trying to bluster about the kill to divert pressure but either way I don't like it.
The pressure on Mikey is good. I'm not convinced he's scum but his "Ruma was totally weird I just couldn't break my mason cover" doesn't line up with the timeline. Weirdly Vezo in his case almost touches on this but kind of misses it.
Mikey was already defending Ruma before he committed to the mason cover. So for him to say after the lynch lock that Ruma was totally weird is not a good look.
I'm just not sure which is weirder Mikey doing that or Vezo finding all the evidence and putting it in order and not really making that point.
Anyway work sucked and I'm done with this game for now.
Actually, Mikey, could you please explain why you tried to use Masoncover to save Ruma when it was abundantly clear by your earlier posting that you were 100% not a Mason and you were fooling absolutely nobody?
Actually, Mikey, could you please explain why you tried to use Masoncover to save Ruma when it was abundantly clear by your earlier posting that you were 100% not a Mason and you were fooling absolutely nobody?
Okay this too. And this being why I'm still town reading him despite all these other good reasons not to.
I see a parallel between his wagon and the twisted logic he used last game to try and get us to lynch out of the pool of him, vezok, and cantripmancer.
I see a parallel between his comments early this game and the responses he made to me when I pushed for his lynch. Heck, I see a parallel between me and Iso in that situation.
Now that he's under serious threat of dying, like he mentioned, he's giving as much self-info as possible in preparation for his flip. I think if his flip were scum, rumanshi wouldn't put so much effort into it? Like, he's used a lot of energy arguing with iso, and went back and reread players, etc.
Seems here you had a really good case for not voting him, but then change it to: Nope. Mason cover.
Why were you "fake" defending him? That case seems pretty thought out tbh
Vote emcee_mickey
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@Grape:
1) As KJ pointed out, you and Vezok voted within 4 posts of each other. Isn't it unusual for town to vote with their top scumread?
2) When you voted Ruma, did you believe that he and Vezok could be partners? Can you support such a read?
3) Your post here below:
With Vezok and Mikey tied at two votes a piece how was Vezok "the only other lynch"? With your vote he would have been on three which is still less than halfway to lynch.
I had missed them. I'll give you short lying in bed awake answers now (as in no text based examples).
I felt Ruma was three things at once: openly scummy, the by far most likely lynch of the day, and floundering. As a result I didn't particularly care who I was voting with I just wanted to put him out of his misery and stop anyone from giving away mason info.
I did think he could be scum with Vezo despite the push but I wasn't making a buddies or bust read. Just felt they were independently scummy and could have been bussing.
As for Mikey he was never getting lynched yesterday. Vezok was an unlikely but possible lynch yesterday. But there weren't any worlds where mikey got lynched over Ruma. Vezok made sense as an alternative wagon but mikey didn't with the two big things about him (before the lynch) being his hard town read on Ruma and Vezok's flip floppy case against him.
Actually, Mikey, could you please explain why you tried to use Masoncover to save Ruma when it was abundantly clear by your earlier posting that you were 100% not a Mason and you were fooling absolutely nobody?
I didn't realize I wasn't fooling anybody. Maybe I'm just that naive!
I had no clue how rumanshi was gonna flip and we all know there was a chance that rumanshi was actually a mason.
I didn't want to die and that was kind of a panic post. I realize now I should have just said nothing and if rumanshi did flip mason, maybe I eat a nightkill.
Seems here you had a really good case for not voting him, but then change it to: Nope. Mason cover.
Why were you "fake" defending him? That case seems pretty thought out tbh
Vote emcee_mickey
I was defending him before I thought he was acting different
probably like.... 8 pages in? I still thought he was town
that's just an estimate though.
That.. doesn't answer my question actually.
If you still thought he was town, why did you say "i couldn't vote him because of fake mason claim"?
I regretted claiming masons with rumanshi at that point. I would've voted for him otherwise. Basically, ignore my defense of rumanshi, it was made up. I tried my best lol
Seems here you had a really good case for not voting him, but then change it to: Nope. Mason cover.
Why were you "fake" defending him? That case seems pretty thought out tbh
Vote emcee_mickey
I was defending him before I thought he was acting different
probably like.... 8 pages in? I still thought he was town
that's just an estimate though.
That.. doesn't answer my question actually.
If you still thought he was town, why did you say "i couldn't vote him because of fake mason claim"?
I regretted claiming masons with rumanshi at that point. I would've voted for him otherwise. Basically, ignore my defense of rumanshi, it was made up. I tried my best lol
How bout no.
Still haven't told me why you faked that mason claim.
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Defended him til page 8 when he was "acting weird"
Fakeclaimed mason with him on page 14
said you couldn't vote him because of said claim on page 15.
Yet, you had suspicion of him from page 8.
It doesn't add up.
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Defended him til page 8 when he was "acting weird"
Fakeclaimed mason with him on page 14
said you couldn't vote him because of said claim on page 15.
Yet, you had suspicion of him from page 8.
It doesn't add up.
what? Are you sure you have your timestamps right on that? I remember claiming masons with rumanshi a LOT earlier than page 14.
Defended him til page 8 when he was "acting weird"
Fakeclaimed mason with him on page 14
said you couldn't vote him because of said claim on page 15.
Yet, you had suspicion of him from page 8.
It doesn't add up.
what? Are you sure you have your timestamps right on that? I remember claiming masons with rumanshi a LOT earlier than page 14.
I mean you didn't actually until that one post.
You said "IF I am a mason, ruma is too"
Still wondering why you fake claimed masons with him and defended him all to the end just to go JK.
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I mean good case. I am very flip floppy right now, concidering my reads aren't very solid and my cases are off the cuff.
i knew you were gonna make this case. if he flipped town. I even kinda concidered you were already making it because you knew what ruma was gonna flip.
to be frank, you expressing that you want me killed if ruma flips villager seems planned.
I can't actually defend any of this. So, *shrug* I mean all you did was show what i've done.
Who are my scum partners?
I mean what good would it do me to switch my reads so obviously? I feel like as scum i would have been a little more careful. Like, in the very few scumgames i have played, i have been able to survive til lylo. or very close to it. and yes, i get it, i am self meta-ing. And i said i didn't like it.
But that's my case and i am sticking to it.
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Killjoy, you said earlier in the game that you wanted to start a conversation with DoTA. Why did you start with that particular question about him being awkward? You followed up with a question about me, so why not just go "Hey DoTA, what do you think of Vaimes?" from the beginning?
Would not be at all surprised if there was at least a wolf between Rumanshi and ganderin_dan, but that's a pretty obvious take which, while potentially accurate, isn't worth discussion at this point.
chucklesnort
I'm doing Sentenza the courtesy of not automatically assuming she's town just because her posts are pretty, but I think this weakly points to her not being mafia. Guess it depends on whether or not she'd even remember making this post, as either alignment.
I do have one other potential reason she could be scum that I'll only voice if it's actually relevant.
If anyone's around and wants to chat with me in the meantime, I'll be refreshing the latest page every few minutes. I'd like to avoid a huge wall of multiposting.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't think Mikey has access to a private chat with anyone. He believed the Grape/KJ Mason claims right off the bat, asked for the third one to claim, and aggro'd me a fair amount for scumreading you because it never occurred to him that VTs could or would lie about being Masons. I think those outweigh him thinking I'm weird but voting with me anyways.
I don't think newbscum (or at least new in the context of this specific setup) does that. They post in scumchat really excitedly about finding the Masons, and then their buddies go "dude...town can lie too."
It's all on page four, I think, if you wanna look again for context.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Iso was a zero posting slot and pushed hard on Ruma. He's keeping his other reads secret. Flop. He doesn't get to be in the towncircle for that.
If DoTA is town, he is 100% a mislynch the scumteam needs. Plus he had a post to Ruma I liked (only because now we know Ruma was town) - looked like he was trying to get him to engage.
Sent is a weird one. I think there's a world where her being scum kiiinda explains gameflow - that the mafia don't really seem to be rocking the boat. Some people pointed out earlier in the game that she felt off, distant, like she's watching and nudging rather than getting her hands dirty. And I have townreads elsewhere.
Actually add dawn to my list of ask-abouts. Is it that one slip that you have her as town for or other stuff?
Her tone is kind of pure, looking back. But it's mostly the slip, yeah.
Really don't think it's likely she makes that slip as anything other than VT. If she's scum, we can string up Grape for immediately crowing about how super duper townfirmed she is.
Really don't think it's likely she makes that slip as anything other than VT. If she's scum, we can string up Grape for immediately crowing about how super duper townfirmed she is.
But I think Grape is town, so.
I mean I wasn't the only one who immediately dumped her into the town pile over that, but I was definitely the loudest voice doing so.
Anyway I'm here but slightly distracted. If anyone has questions for me ask otherwise I'll try to slowly talk about the things that have caught my eye.
So you shade Vaimes' vote, then say screw it and vote along anyway on the fastest growing wagon?
Vote: Emcee_Mikey
Still feeling good about a Mikey flip.
DotA is on Mikey for 'shading your vote and then saying screw it and voting along with the fastest growing wagon'. So, I'm gonna say that the shading the vote and voting along are two separate thoughts here.
Like. Those two things together make no sense for scum to do, first of all. "Your vote on X is scummy. BTW Vote X" seems anti-self aware. That just seems like a weird thing for mafia to do.
Secondly, (and here's where he's kinda assuming Vezok is town) voting along with the wagon with the most momentum. There are two possibilities here. town!Vezok and scum!Vezok. If scum!Vezok... why would DotA care that he (Mikey) is adding momentum to the wagon? It only makes sense when Vezok is town, which DotA shouldn't know.
I see that he has Vezok as Lean Town but the post above is a reaction with the subconscious premise of Vezok being town, not DotA KNOWING it.
This probably isn't clear.
The basis for the argument that adding momentum to the vezok wagon is bad only makes sense when Vezok is town, DotA shouldn't know that.
So, either DotA spewed Vezok town or there's a gap in my logic that I'm not seeing.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
why is killjoy suddenly *present* with a case against dota?
KJ has been on my case since the start of D1, I don't know where the "suddenly" fits into your statement here...
Kj's attack on Dota slightly confuses me. Dota was off the Ruma wagon.
I'll come back with the long awaited Mikey case in a few minutes.
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I then went back and noticed his lack of conviction, but I think that was a fluke and he is doing better right now.
Now let's analyse the posts.
This is mikey's first post. Somehow his is exactly what he ended up doing day 1.
Pushing for a third mason claim. This might be just mikey not really understanding the setup, but it could also be role fishing.
Some more rolefishing.
This feels like whiteknighting. Rumanashi looked nothing like in off the grid.
This came up when Rumanashi wagon was at 3 votes. Either mikey is town and was convinced Rumanashi is innoecent (doubtful) or scum trying to sow discord. If he was town I would have expected him trying to push a different wagon, but he still kept his Vaimes vote.
Ruma/shadow argument in off the grid was irrational and headbutting, but it was t/s. I feel like you are trying to push a dichtonomy when there isn't any.
I don't like this post at all. A rumanashi lynch is almost inevitable at this point and mikey continues to defend Rumanashi. Ruma was stubborn in Off the grid and was refusing to hammer scum, but he was playing the game in his way. This time he simply folded over after a bit of pressure.
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Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I kind of hate this post but there is another part of me that loves it. Anyway I've not fully read and I've definitely not properly reevaluated yet but my early impression is I like the case against Rod. Get the movement against Mikey but think it's incorrect. And still think Vezok is scum but am not confident yet.
Will read up after work or if work slows down.
will catch up tonight
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But I hate literally everything else about it. His level 1 mason hunting check shouldn't be discussed, And him throwing in being on the wagon just rubs me wrong. But mostly the mason stuff. I don't know if it's town Vezo unwittingly doing scums work for them or if he's just trying to bluster about the kill to divert pressure but either way I don't like it.
Mikey was already defending Ruma before he committed to the mason cover. So for him to say after the lynch lock that Ruma was totally weird is not a good look.
I'm just not sure which is weirder Mikey doing that or Vezo finding all the evidence and putting it in order and not really making that point.
Anyway work sucked and I'm done with this game for now.
Okay this too. And this being why I'm still town reading him despite all these other good reasons not to.
I didn't like this D1. like. he claimed masons with ruma on post 296 and 11 posts later he's like. "Lol mason cover"
What was the purpose of fake-claiming masons with Town!ruma, and then going, jk. "i couldn't vote for him because mason cover"
Seems here you had a really good case for not voting him, but then change it to: Nope. Mason cover.
Why were you "fake" defending him? That case seems pretty thought out tbh
Vote emcee_mickey
I had missed them. I'll give you short lying in bed awake answers now (as in no text based examples).
I felt Ruma was three things at once: openly scummy, the by far most likely lynch of the day, and floundering. As a result I didn't particularly care who I was voting with I just wanted to put him out of his misery and stop anyone from giving away mason info.
I did think he could be scum with Vezo despite the push but I wasn't making a buddies or bust read. Just felt they were independently scummy and could have been bussing.
As for Mikey he was never getting lynched yesterday. Vezok was an unlikely but possible lynch yesterday. But there weren't any worlds where mikey got lynched over Ruma. Vezok made sense as an alternative wagon but mikey didn't with the two big things about him (before the lynch) being his hard town read on Ruma and Vezok's flip floppy case against him.
I was defending him before I thought he was acting different
probably like.... 8 pages in? I still thought he was town
that's just an estimate though.
I had no clue how rumanshi was gonna flip and we all know there was a chance that rumanshi was actually a mason.
I didn't want to die and that was kind of a panic post. I realize now I should have just said nothing and if rumanshi did flip mason, maybe I eat a nightkill.
That.. doesn't answer my question actually.
If you still thought he was town, why did you say "i couldn't vote him because of fake mason claim"?
I regretted claiming masons with rumanshi at that point. I would've voted for him otherwise. Basically, ignore my defense of rumanshi, it was made up. I tried my best lol
How bout no.
Still haven't told me why you faked that mason claim.
Defended him til page 8 when he was "acting weird"
Fakeclaimed mason with him on page 14
said you couldn't vote him because of said claim on page 15.
Yet, you had suspicion of him from page 8.
It doesn't add up.
I mean you didn't actually until that one post.
You said "IF I am a mason, ruma is too"
Still wondering why you fake claimed masons with him and defended him all to the end just to go JK.
I mean good case. I am very flip floppy right now, concidering my reads aren't very solid and my cases are off the cuff.
i knew you were gonna make this case. if he flipped town. I even kinda concidered you were already making it because you knew what ruma was gonna flip.
to be frank, you expressing that you want me killed if ruma flips villager seems planned.
I can't actually defend any of this. So, *shrug* I mean all you did was show what i've done.
Who are my scum partners?
I mean what good would it do me to switch my reads so obviously? I feel like as scum i would have been a little more careful. Like, in the very few scumgames i have played, i have been able to survive til lylo. or very close to it. and yes, i get it, i am self meta-ing. And i said i didn't like it.
But that's my case and i am sticking to it.
I'll try to have more opinions once I reread. Have the next couple of days off (unless a coworker tries to give me their shift) so I'll do it then.
This looks like a town thought.
Unvote, vote Iso
Missed you, enemy. Can't wait to catch up and chat.
I'm doing Sentenza the courtesy of not automatically assuming she's town just because her posts are pretty, but I think this weakly points to her not being mafia. Guess it depends on whether or not she'd even remember making this post, as either alignment.
I do have one other potential reason she could be scum that I'll only voice if it's actually relevant.
If anyone's around and wants to chat with me in the meantime, I'll be refreshing the latest page every few minutes. I'd like to avoid a huge wall of multiposting.
@Vaimes: I suppose I got a little preoccupied with my tunnel of you to care too much about others.
But why did you start with that awkwardness question specifically?
This was my original readslist in 230:
Vaimes
Emcee, Rod, vezok
Sentenza, Dota, Grape
Killjoy, Tubba
[Dan, Ruma, Huntz, dawn]
This is my readslist after rereading up to 230 again:
Vaimes
dbs, Mikey
Grape, Killjoy, Rod
Tubba, DoTA
Sentenza
Iso, vezok
Lemme know about big disagreements and I'll go into detail if you want.
That's... actually really in line with mine.
Why is Sent so low? And Iso?
I don't think newbscum (or at least new in the context of this specific setup) does that. They post in scumchat really excitedly about finding the Masons, and then their buddies go "dude...town can lie too."
It's all on page four, I think, if you wanna look again for context.
If DoTA is town, he is 100% a mislynch the scumteam needs. Plus he had a post to Ruma I liked (only because now we know Ruma was town) - looked like he was trying to get him to engage.
Sent is a weird one. I think there's a world where her being scum kiiinda explains gameflow - that the mafia don't really seem to be rocking the boat. Some people pointed out earlier in the game that she felt off, distant, like she's watching and nudging rather than getting her hands dirty. And I have townreads elsewhere.
Really don't think it's likely she makes that slip as anything other than VT. If she's scum, we can string up Grape for immediately crowing about how super duper townfirmed she is.
But I think Grape is town, so.
I mean I wasn't the only one who immediately dumped her into the town pile over that, but I was definitely the loudest voice doing so.
Anyway I'm here but slightly distracted. If anyone has questions for me ask otherwise I'll try to slowly talk about the things that have caught my eye.
Ok, it's fairish, I guess.
But. Like. Doesn't it kind of require DotA to be assuming that Vezok is town?
Think about it from DotA's perspective here. DotA is on Mikey for 'shading your vote and then saying screw it and voting along with the fastest growing wagon'. So, I'm gonna say that the shading the vote and voting along are two separate thoughts here.
Like. Those two things together make no sense for scum to do, first of all. "Your vote on X is scummy. BTW Vote X" seems anti-self aware. That just seems like a weird thing for mafia to do.
Secondly, (and here's where he's kinda assuming Vezok is town) voting along with the wagon with the most momentum. There are two possibilities here. town!Vezok and scum!Vezok. If scum!Vezok... why would DotA care that he (Mikey) is adding momentum to the wagon? It only makes sense when Vezok is town, which DotA shouldn't know.
I see that he has Vezok as Lean Town but the post above is a reaction with the subconscious premise of Vezok being town, not DotA KNOWING it.
This probably isn't clear.
The basis for the argument that adding momentum to the vezok wagon is bad only makes sense when Vezok is town, DotA shouldn't know that.
So, either DotA spewed Vezok town or there's a gap in my logic that I'm not seeing.
Go ahead and talk; I've still got a lot of reading to do.