MTG Salvation

I feel like DoT is tactically lurking.

Which means I'm probably wrong about one of my scum reads.

Let's go!!!

Terry is town. Lot's of reasons. Not going to waste more words on this. Kami is town. The enthusiasm in the PR, the claim, and his general attention to detail all speak to him being town. RE is town. Shin was a strong town read for me and RE hasn't made me reevaluate it. She's been solid and her interactions with Wisp and DBS felt right to me. Silver is town, see above post in reply to RE.

Never lynching any of these 4 today.

Terry
Kami
RE
Silver

Iso has had some real town pings for me. His use of the PR, his dropping it, his claim, and his interactions with me. I don't think scum!Iso bothers sparring with me as much as he has. The focus just has been so narrow and I don't think scum!Iso locks himself into these reads this early. Wisp also strikes me positively for the reasons I talked about with Shadow earlier. I still have some doubts, but they largely stem from the general scumminess of his play that permeates him as both alignments.

This is probably my worst read, but I think scum Shadow tries harder than this. He has so much pride in his scum game that I think he'd try harder than this despite real life making demands on his time.

Rhand reads town. Not going to get to specific posts but I've liked his reads, I like that he's been liberal moving his vote around, and I like his confidence. He can do all of those things as scum, but it's also all been good so far. Similar to Proph. Keeping an eye on him will be key though. He is able to make very townie looking catchup posts as scum. It's really how he won in Silence of the Lambs mafia. Where he struggles is in keeping up beyond that. If he continues to play almost entirely via catch-up then he needs serious pressure regardless of the quality of his posts. Cyan's last page interacting with Wisp is the first thing that stuck out to me and it read really townie to me. There is probably other stuff too, but it hasn't stuck with me.

Probably never lynching these 6 today. But wouldn't automatically look sideways at anyone pushing them.

Iso
Wisp
Shadow
Rhand
Proph
Cyan

That leaves us with 8. I don't have strong (finished) opinions on Gemma, DBS, Dota, atog, or Wuffles. Gemma is pretty much a blank slate, atog is too. Dota's close to that, but with a few town pings that I described in a recent post. DBS I have strong feelings about but zero confidence in a read. Just none. I'm just going to punt on figuring her out for now. Wuffles is someone who my only opinions on are coming from other people's reactions to her posts. Had her at null before tom's reaction to her (his?) wall calling it tmi.

Dota
Gemma
atog

DBS???

Wuffles???

Then we have my actual scum reads. Vezok has had enough ink spilled about him. The crux is his bad meta dive on Iso. I just think that's scum!Vezok making that read. KJ has been a heavy lurker. I was wrong about his Wisp read earlier. But he just isn't there. I am giving the other lurkers the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not willing to do it here. Also contrast his reply to me in 907 to his read on me in his read wall on 1262. And check his ISO for the in between posts. Granted his 435 is already slightly positive for me so maybe there is a real progression there, but meh I don't see it.

Then we have tom. He's being tom and tom is hard to read. He does similar things as both alignments and is just super tricky to read. I have him here just because I firmly believe that inconsistency on Wisp earlier and his reaction to it.

tom
KJ
Vezok

Which gives us:
Terry
Kami
RE
Silver
Iso
Wisp
Shadow
Rhand
Proph
Cyan
Dota
Gemma
atog

DBS???

Wuffles???
tom
KJ
Vezok

This tells me I have too many town leans. So I'll have to reevaluate but I think I'm happy with it for today. Probably being to lenient to lurkers.

unvote
vote silver

Quote from vezokpiraka »

unvote
vote silver

I'm simultaneously amused and horrified that you're following me on to the Silver wagon.

Cool; I'm here, so talk to me.

I'm around as well. @Proph do you have thoughts on this?

Quote from tomsloger »

Quote from Wuffles_II »

OKAY

This is why I have consistently seen Proph as town this game. Because he posts good stuff. And we mindmeld a LOT. He also calls people out for lurking, lazy cuddle-up posts,

Prophlyaxis ISO

#207 - Makes observation about LastWhisper townie play which I think has been proven true time and time again - that he is unfiltered and headstrong as town. I think it is safe to say that this is what Wisp has been all game.

Also calls rhand on his light townread of him - which is +town to me - players tend to let people get away with lazy town reads more when they're scum, and be more suspicious of their motives when they're town.

Makes one "catching up" post then goes onto more content. +town. Really seems like he's just legitimately busy, and not lurking out of laziness or scumminess.

#313 - calls out Shadow for activelurkposting. Answers that Iso's play has given him good feels because it seems a lot less self-centered than normal. (How's that read looking now, Proph? ). Good post.

After 313, spends five days on the run from content - did mention he had project due.

#520 - nom. Some damn good posting here. If I had read his take on Kamikaze Archon here I may have thought twice about jumping on that loaded question.

Okay who the **** is Vaimes tho -_-"

Disagree with his town framing of Shin based on "frustration" being more townie.

Observes that Iso's been on Vezok since before this post. That's over 2/3rds of the game, in case anyone thinks differently. *raises eyebrow @ Cyan*

Makes a fair point on Shadow asking others to contribute while giving little of his own.

Makes some comments about wisp I'm pretty neutral on since it's all meta

JoeTerry - YES. He too thinks that it would be ridiculous for Terry to have revealed that role information as anything but a townie townie. +townie points for mindmeld.

says cantripmancer is lurking...sigh.

Mentions Cyan needs to provide thought processes behind his posts. Well, I mean, yes, that's true for literally every game that Cyan has ever played in that I've read but...good luck with that. I've lost my ***** trying to get him to explain himself adequately so many times in the past that I just kind of ignore him in thread at this point. And in his defence, sometimes statements and reads in the consistently confident i-won-the-game tone is sometimes what a lost game needs in order to get content flowing again.

DBS - I'm going to leave this one, because DBS is a really hard one for me to read. >_<

I think 520 is where I wrote off proph as town.

Lurks and makes a few neutral sounding posts till #729.

Asks me why I've written him off as supertown.

Basically, it's because he's mindmelded with me so hard this game.

Pressures RE1031 for letting him off the hook as town. Consistently calling people out for lazy reads on him. I like.


I'll find time tomorrow to respond to anyone in the last 200 or so posts that has asked questions of me. For now though I sleep on this final thought:

TOWN:
Iso, Proph, Silver, Tom, Terry

Town-ish

Wisp (for meta reasons, as much as I hate to say it - he's been brash and honest all game and I have nothing better to go on)

Neutral/no read:
DBS, Cyan, Grape, Rhand, Shadow, Gemma, Re1031,

Scummy (some of these are just based on their lurkiness + lack of content)
Atogaholic, DoTArchon, Killjoy, KamikazeArchon

Likely scum:
Vezok

this post is a massive TMI leak
On proph, on last, possibly on his buddy shadow

vote wuffles

I'm around, but am on cell so don't ask me to read back too far or do ISO's rn. But I'm listening.

I do think we need to also discuss items at this point because the deadline is getting might close.

Who again was it that was opposed to buying the potion? I don't remember who or where it was but someone mentioned there were people distancing from it because they didn't have enough money? Who was that again? I know one of them was Iso.

Quote from Prophylaxis »

Really have no idea why tom says that's a TMI leak.

I think it's Wuffles trying to explain his townread (and deliver on an ISO that he promised to do) and I think he did it in a pretty good way? It reads very similarly to the ISOs I like to do when I'm trying to explain why someone is town, so I sympathize there.

I get where tom is coming from because it does seem to start with the conclusion, but you've also been almost universally town read up to this point so it's hard to decide if it's a perspective slip or a deeply held read that felt, for lack of a better word, obvious. And the opening start off with saying Wisp has proved obviously town time and time again is a tough one to crack. Because while I think Wisp is probably townie, I really do think that read is a bit off.

@Wuffles next time you're around can you talk about your Wisp stance a bit. Or direct me to your existing thoughts on him.

Quote from Prophylaxis »

Yea sure.

Explain to me please why you're voting for Silver? I really liked his post 908 and he's been voting/expressing a strong scumread for vezok, so.. you think Silver is trying to bus vezok or something? I saw that you kind of disliked him for having only two scumreads but any further substantiation would be great.

Like. What "good feelings" do you have about him being scum?

Silver posts are difficult for me to elaborate on for as to why I feel that way about him, but something feels "off". I can try to read through him and see if I pick up anything weird I can work with, if you'd like?

With regards to vezok, eh, I'm not still convinced that he isn't just scum, but I'm trying not to tunnel so hard and maybe he's just bad at appearing townie? I've admittedly fallen prey to thinking many a townie that just weren't good at being town were scum because...well, duh. I mean, there's still the whole flagrantly scummy approach that vezok took to deciding to scumread me for my meta that he didn't even bother looking at before deciding that it was my meta that made me scum, but really, I just feel like pushing him at this juncture isn't going to be productive; ultimately, I'm tabling him for later.

Quote from Prophylaxis »

The reason why I feel like your reads are fitting thread temperature is because you've been scumreading vezok/Grape/Togs for.. pretty much the entirety of Day 1 now (and now Silver is being thrown in) and I'm nervous that you're trying to lynch people not because they're scum, but because people will follow you on the wagon? You're giving up on vezok because people aren't willing to lynch him today. Togs is lurking, and.. not sure how you feel about Grape other than the fact that you're still scumreading him. Do you think that they're all a team and you're in the thread with wolves openly howling?

So your hypothesis is what, that I somehow arbitrarily decided that vezok, Togs, and Grapefruit were going to be scummy all game long and that I should just push them from the get-go because I psychically knew that people would be on-board with that? I'm not really sure what your angle is, here. I admittedly didn't pick up on the Silver trail until someone else mentioned him, but I have held to that read, as well.

Also, like I said, I don't feel too great about DoT, so I'm thinking there's room in my list to be wrong about someone, as mentioned.

Porpz, whatcha think of Cyan and tom?

@grapes - I didnt say he has proven town time and time again. I said his posts seem unfiltered and brash time and time again, which Proph says is a pretty solid town meta for him. I've never played with the guy before but I'm happy to follow Proph here because his meta read from way back 520 seems to have remained pretty consistently how wisp is playing so far.

Quote from Prophylaxis »

Quote from Iso »

Silver posts are difficult for me to elaborate on for as to why I feel that way about him, but something feels "off". I can try to read through him and see if I pick up anything weird I can work with, if you'd like?

That'd be great. I just.. don't see him, in his first real scum game, being able to make a post as dramatic/a post that shows so much insight into his thought process as 908. I feel like that post would have to come off as more.. crafted/a little less genuine if scum!Silver made that post and I'm just reading it and going "man there's just so much raw emotion here, emotion that I don't think he ever experiences as scum". So.. I'd like to hear what you think about that post specifically, and tell me if Silver is capable of faking it in his first real scum game.

Quote from Iso »

With regards to vezok, eh, I'm not still convinced that he isn't just scum, but I'm trying not to tunnel so hard and maybe he's just bad at appearing townie? I've admittedly fallen prey to thinking many a townie that just weren't good at being town were scum because...well, duh. I mean, there's still the whole flagrantly scummy approach that vezok took to deciding to scumread me for my meta that he didn't even bother looking at before deciding that it was my meta that made me scum, but really, I just feel like pushing him at this juncture isn't going to be productive; ultimately, I'm tabling him for later.

Fair enough, thanks for explaining it in a more thorough/detailed way.

Quote from Iso »

So your hypothesis is what, that I somehow arbitrarily decided that vezok, Togs, and Grapefruit were going to be scummy all game long and that I should just push them from the get-go because I psychically knew that people would be on-board with that? I'm not really sure what your angle is, here. I admittedly didn't pick up on the Silver trail until someone else mentioned him, but I have held to that read, as well.

When I was reading your posts I'm just here sitting "dang, Iso thinks Grapefruit, Silver, and vezok are scum, but Grape + Silver are voting for vezok. Does Iso think that they're just bussing their scumbuddy and trying to get through the day?"

Though now that you've started to re-evaluate on vezok and I can look into your mindset a little here that's tapered off, but that's what I was thinking of and that's why I wanted you to talk to me.

Quote from Iso »

Also, like I said, I don't feel too great about DoT, so I'm thinking there's room in my list to be wrong about someone, as mentioned.

Wanna try this?

Unvote, vote DoTArchon

He gave me town vibes when he was in the thread like three weeks ago but he literally has had no progression on vezok. ISO him and tell me what you think?

I'd be glad to lynch either of them toDay, but Silver over DoT since DoT gives us no interaction data and I imagine scumSilver is a bigger threat than scumDoT (no offense, DoT). I'll keep my ear to the ground and move my vote if the DoT wagon gains traction.

Let me get back to you on the Silver thing after I re-read that post you're referencing, here.

Okay, re-read the Silver post. I don't really know what he means by "magic bag" so I'm going to ignore that for the moment. I think that Silver's mindset there does read genuinely annoyed, but scum can get genuinely annoyed, too. Genuine emotion is not necessarily indicative of townieness. I do think he makes several good points about vezok, which actually makes a lot of sense with them being scum together (as I could easily see that frustration stemming from a lazy scumbuddy lazily busing him and getting away with it), but if Silver is scum, it also indicates that vezok might be more likely to be town and Silver is just annoyed that vezok is (shockingly) on the money and that it's sticking.

Quote from Prophylaxis »

Quote from Iso »

Porpz, whatcha think of Cyan and tom?

tom.. ask me about tom at like, Day 3. I can try to take a stab at reading him right now but I find him much more easier to approach once we have had some flips and I can look at him from a more macro perspective. He's kind of similar to dawningbluesky in that regard; I don't have much success with them reading their posts and trying to track mindset, but I sure as heck can PoE them out once I've had hard alignment information to work off of.

Cyan.. Cyan. I'm a little weirded out at how he went from slightly scumreading me to townreading me so quickly but what I have in my notes is that he seems to be more engaged in this game than in the Invitational, where he kind of just died. I also like his progression on Last (similar to Rhand) - I feel like he'd be a lot more rigid as scum. So slight townread at the moment?

Quote from Prophylaxis »

OK, update me what you think about Silver and I'll chime in with my own thoughts.

The reason why I'm so gungho about voting lurkers despite it being Day 1 is because I've continuously observed scum lurkers being given free passes on MTGS moreso than other sites. (See: Cythare/Kabazame in Zero Escape, Quickhoodies in Silence of the Lambs) - I told myself when I joined a game again on MTGS to pressure lurkers moreso than usual and see what the results are.

I feel like scumtom usually has a motive or angle that he's vaguely trying to shepherd the town into achieving, and I don't really get that vibe from him in this game. Nothing sinister about his posts.

I'm questioning Cyan's authenticity because he makes it a point to scumread me in every game we're in together (and then claims to be able to read me because he always pushes for my lynch as scum because...well, he always pushes for my lynch), but it feels like bravado. Like...I don't think my opening posts were even remotely close to scummy, and Cyan decided that I was scum for them. Actually, that raises a great question:

Hey Cyan, what made you think I was scum so early on?

You say he's more engaged than the Invitational, but I don't think that's really a fair comparison because his entire team got blown out and I caught him before he even posted. He also stated that he was having difficulty actually getting engaged in this game to begin with.

I can respect where you're coming from with the lurkerstuff, and I do think that's a reasonable approach to take when there aren't any other viable options; I'm just hesitant to lynch lurkers on Day 1 because I've seen town get bandwagoned so often on Day 1 as a CFD lynch on the premise of lurking, and I still think I'd like DoT to incriminate his buddies before lynching him.

Ugh, let me find where I started expressing suspicion of Silver to see if that jogs my memory.

Ah, okay, looks like it stemmed from the discussion that Silver and I had surrounding the vezok/Atog interactions early on, where he claimed not to understand and I just could not fathom how he could not comprehend what I was saying. Also, this post:

Quote from Iso »

Quote from Silvercrys3467 »

Quote from Iso »

I mean, all three of them have had bizarre interactions and independent scum moments. It just works out that way - they're scum of their own accords, and they're scum together.

Yes, they've had bizarre interactions, but I still don't understand what you think makes their bizarre interactions necessarily "awkward interactions between scum mates" as opposed to... anything else, like just Vezok scum, or Vezok/Grape/not Atog, etcetera etcetera.

Like. Are you just scum reading anything that sticks out to you and isn't directly contradicted by something else?

I'm chortling as I read this post because this is how it reads to me: "Do you have any reason to be scum reading these scum reads other than the reasons you've already presented? I mean, I know they haven't been refuted, yet, but still - stop pestering my buddies? Please?"

I love it.

Sort of here, internet's been wonky so I'm mobile posting.

Iso dismantling the Vezok wagon to vote me is super ???

AMA while I'm here I guess. Was planning on looking at Last a little more closely than just "his progression on me over the last page is terrible" but that's not happening on mobile.

:popcorn: loving this discussion guys.

Quote from Wuffles_II »

@grapes - I didnt say he has proven town time and time again. I said his posts seem unfiltered and brash time and time again, which Proph says is a pretty solid town meta for him. I've never played with the guy before but I'm happy to follow Proph here because his meta read from way back 520 seems to have remained pretty consistently how wisp is playing so far.

Okay that makes sense to me. I didn't read the post that way at first, but I see how it can be read that way.

Quote from Prophylaxis »

*snip*
How am I a universal town read? I have like, 3 people voting for me and like a couple of people strongly suspecting me (Togs/killjoy/RE).

To my knowledge you have 2 votes (Gemma and Atog) both of whom are non entities. KJ is also suspicious of you but is likewise a non-entity. RE I had forgotten was scum reading you. Still that leaves one person in the thread with any sort of presence who is scum reading you. Just about everyone posting heavily who has mentioned you has called you super town. I earlier mentioned that you were approaching spewed town status and stand by it. No one consistently (RE excepted) has said much except that your catch ups are super townie. Not going to go and compile a bunch of posts saying it but I know they exist.

Quote from Prophylaxis »

Fair WRT tom. If we're both still alive on Day 3 remind me to look at him, I'll try to make an effort to do so.

What do you think about Cyan's progression with last (in that he scumread him, then he listened to tom, then he's doing this song and dance/questioning him, then coming to the conclusion that last is bad town)? I reread that exchange and I feel like Cyan would be way more rigid/speak in more certainties if he actually had knowledge of last's alignment.

Fair also WRT the lurking. Reason why I'm looking at both killjoy and DoTArchon here is that they both made it a point to vote him when he's the largest wagon and I'm like :thinking:

I don't know; I think scumCyan could have easily decided that he was going to lose that battle if he tried to push it further and then dropped it in a way that he thought seemed organic. Though I agree that it's probably a point in his favor that he actually didn't just push LW because he thought he could. Though admittedly, that could easily become a "he knew he'd look bad for it" thing, so it's just wine all the way through.

Quote from Wuffles_II »

:popcorn: loving this discussion guys.

Is...that all you have to add to it? :thinking_face:

Hey Grape, do you have any questions for me?

Quote from Iso »

Hey Grape, do you have any questions for me?

A couple but nothing overly important. Are you still scum reading me? General feedback on my reads wall, would be nice. In particular on my town leans section. I have too many there, but think I like all of them.

And lastly: is your scum read on Silver really entirely stemming from that fact that he thinks the third member of your scum team doesn't fit with the first two (which he agree's with) so he must be scum trying to derail your wagon to save Atog of all people?

Also if you're opposed to a DotA wagon what about an Atog one?

Quote from Silvercrys3467 »

Vezok: "Everyone pushing me except Grapefruit is scum, and also two lurkers. This is totally not OMGUS."

Kami: "I'm the Doctor! But this isn't a counterclaim of the guy who claimed to be a kill delayer."

Iso: "I'm a modified Jailkeeper! This is a counterclaim of Vezok but not Kami."

I can't even. Like, what the hell are we doing right now?

I'll come back tomorrow to try to make sense of this mess I guess.

I dunno why people can't just keep it in their pants.

I agree.

Quote from vezokpiraka »

I already explained in an earlier post dawning. It means nobody can steal my will, my money and 4 of my items.

It was poorly explained in the role PM and I thought it meant I can have up to 4 items while other people can have less.

I see. that explains it. so you assumed inventory is limited cuz the vault said its capacity is 4 items? then in this case it's more of a misunderstanding.

Quote from Prophylaxis »

Also feel more comfortable with Iso after the real time talk we had.

if you were around for real-time more often, this would be more credible.

Hey dawn, are you planning on doing anything other than defend my scumreads and throw shade at my townreads?

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

Quote from Iso »

Hey Grape, do you have any questions for me?

A couple but nothing overly important. Are you still scum reading me? General feedback on my reads wall, would be nice. In particular on my town leans section. I have too many there, but think I like all of them.

And lastly: is your scum read on Silver really entirely stemming from that fact that he thinks the third member of your scum team doesn't fit with the first two (which he agree's with) so he must be scum trying to derail your wagon to save Atog of all people?

Also if you're opposed to a DotA wagon what about an Atog one?

Your read wall made me go but I can't remember why and I don't feel like looking back on it just yet. I'm probably still scumreading you but I would need to re-sort everything mentally with the influx of information I just took in and possibly the additional information of a flip. I can probably provide more solid reads Day 2 (and on that note, I can't kill myself toNight any more for [reasons].)

I don't really like your mischaracterization of my Silver read, FWIW.

Quote from Prophylaxis »

Also feel more comfortable with Iso after the real time talk we had.

Appreciate you taking the time; you know how I play. Real-time interactions help me sort things out.

Quote from Prophylaxis »

Unvote, vote DoTArchon

He gave me town vibes when he was in the thread like three weeks ago but he literally has had no progression on vezok. ISO him and tell me what you think?

Quote from Prophylaxis »

Thinking gun to head vezok is town because I hate the lurkers on his wagon and I feel like they're trying to push a mislynch through (kj/DoTA specifically) but nowhere near confident on that read.

this feels like another weak reason of sorts. and DoTA is a wagon I started? so you so happened to find me suspicious but join the wagon I started on someone you townread before.

Quote from Iso »

Hey dawn, are you planning on doing anything other than defend my scumreads and throw shade at my townreads?

I don't remember what your scum/town reads are, so idk if I'm defending/shading any of them. who are they again? if you mean Vezok for scum, I don't think his approach towards claiming has been scummy so far. and if you remember, I was right about few things you disagreed on before, so I'd say our disagreement isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Quote from vezokpiraka »

Also if anyone cares, Off the Grid mafia just finished and I was town there. You can check that game out, although it was a completely different type of game than here.

ah yeah, and I was town there too lol. I'm kinda basing on that by saying you aren't an easy D1 lynch. for the record, I'm rarely NK'd and usually hanged.

Quote from Killjoy »

Dawn-So. In ZE Dawn just kept doing things and eventually I realized he just... wasn't scum. So here, I'm waiting for something similar. And it's not happening. I feel like it should be happening.

what are you waiting for to happen?

Quote from Prophylaxis »

yooo Silver

What do you make of killjoy + DoTA both hopping on the vezok wagon? What do you think of them if vezok flips town? Flips scum?

Also can you explain your stance on Grape + vezok? Specifically, Grape is scumreading + pushing vezok, yet you have them both as scumleans. You think Grape's bussing vezok? Forgive me if you've already explained this.

Yeah, I don't know. Killjoy I just have as "scummy in a vacuum" based on his earlier stuff and he hasn't really posted anything of substance since then, that I remember at least, but the impression I have of him as a player is that he doesn't have much thread presence as either alignment. We almost mislynched him in Star Trek for it except that he was masons with Wheat.

DoTA's just a big ? for me. I don't feel like anything he's said is particularly alignment indicative. I wouldn't be surprised if he flips scum based on his meta from STMUIV where he replaced in as scum and lurked until lynched, but I don't really think there's a lot of info to be gained by lynching him.

They... probably aren't *both* scum with Vezok and Grape because I don't really see scum lurkers swooping in and bussing their much more active buddy like that without actually trying to like, get credit for it at all. Like, maybe it's just Grape bussing and DoTA hopped on because it looked inevitable or something.

They *could* be scum together if Vezok/Grape are town? Like, that's where I'm going to start at least if he is.

Grape/Vezok I reposted for Last earlier today but the short of it is that I read Grape's vote on Vezok as a panic bus when Iso caught him. That wouldn't make sense unless they're specifically buddies, and it was too early to be a serious attempt at a mislynch, so I think they're likely the same alignment; either w/w or v/v. His push hasn't really sold it for me, I guess. When he first started when I replaced in it was a lot of stuff like "what do you think of Vezok?" stuff to a bunch of players and I didn't even know he was scum reading him until I checked the votecount and iso'd him.

And I *was* thinking Grape made up the "counterclaim" to sell the bus, I guess, because that Vezok claim is just. Lol. But the more I think about it the whole threadflow around the claims doesn't really make sense if the scum team is who I think it is. I mean, it *should* be right. Their interactions and stuff, Vezok's play, the Grape reversal, the horrible claim, the vague counter claim followed up by specifics.

It just doesn't really.... feel right, I guess. Sort of like when I was pushing Tappingstones in STMUIV or Weiyaoli in that Witch Hunt I replaced into on DLP.

Like, it feels as though the scum team is handling Vezok like a wagon they don't want to be on, because it keeps stalling out, and there's a huge group of my PoE just not even touching him. Like maybe they're content to play both ends against the middle. I think only like half the game even has real stances on him. But... I need to know his alignment to work out what's going on with the wagons, that's the only way to *know* whether I'm wrong or not.

@Iso I knew you wouldn't like that characterization of it because it was a bit sassy, but that's what it reads like. You saw things that tied me, atog, and Vezok together. Silver disagreed with the reasons that tied atog to Vezok and me and pushed you on them. This led you to you thinking he was scum because you felt it was a ironclad reason. Is there something I'm missing? Because that's what the post you linked earlier reads like. My larger point is that what's the play for scum!Silver here? He's not trying to move you off Vezok or me. Just Atog with us. Which isn't a play I'd see him sticking his neck out for.

Fair enough on the wall. I'd like to hear thoughts from someone, someday. But walls like that usually get ignored.

No thoughts on wagoning Atog today?

Also I see no reason for you to offer to kill yourself with your role. Does not seem worth it at all.

town
Terry
Iso
Grape
RE (Shinichi) - Shin/Last debate
Last - Shin/Last debate
Kamikaze - another Shinichi from ZE ~ do not tunnel

Silver (Yurkin) - I townread this slot for...the attention it received while Yurkin.
Cyan - liked his handling of Vezok's claim.
Vezok - he shouldn't have claimed vault if he wanted to save his hide. more town than scum here.

null - feeling unsure about this category
Tom (DisplayName)
Shadow
Wuffles (Gwen)

Proph
Rhand

not enough content
Gemma (Cantrip/Vaimes)
Killjoy
Atog
DoTA

from="Wuffles_II »" url="/forums/community-forums/mafia/791150-arkham-horror-mafia-day-one?comment=1298"]:popcorn: loving this discussion guys. [/quote]

Is...that all you have to add to it? :thinking_face:[/quote]Nah, I was just on a bus at the time. I'm home now.

Would anyone like to ask me any questions?

The above post was Iso asking me if I had any more content to add, btw. the tags just got messed up.

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

Rhand reads town. Not going to get to specific posts but I've liked his reads, I like that he's been liberal moving his vote around, and I like his confidence. He can do all of those things as scum, but it's also all been good so far. Similar to Proph. Keeping an eye on him will be key though. He is able to make very townie looking catchup posts as scum. It's really how he won in Silence of the Lambs mafia. Where he struggles is in keeping up beyond that. If he continues to play almost entirely via catch-up then he needs serious pressure regardless of the quality of his posts. Cyan's last page interacting with Wisp is the first thing that stuck out to me and it read really townie to me. There is probably other stuff too, but it hasn't stuck with me.

Then we have my actual scum reads. Vezok has had enough ink spilled about him. The crux is his bad meta dive on Iso. I just think that's scum!Vezok making that read. KJ has been a heavy lurker. I was wrong about his Wisp read earlier. But he just isn't there. I am giving the other lurkers the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not willing to do it here. Also contrast his reply to me in 907 to his read on me in his read wall on 1262. And check his ISO for the in between posts. Granted his 435 is already slightly positive for me so maybe there is a real progression there, but meh I don't see it.

This tells me I have too many town leans. So I'll have to reevaluate but I think I'm happy with it for today. Probably being to lenient to lurkers.

1. so Rhand is good scum. will keep in mind.
2. what is your case against him then? I find him suspicious at times, but it feels like he's left under the spotlight that it's more town than scum.
3. if it's lurkers + a capable scum player, it goes without saying that lurkers would be scum.

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

No thoughts on wagoning Atog today?

so you're thinking we should lynch him? I've checked through his ISO and it's not as bad as DoTA, even Killjoy's ISO is better.
DoTA's posts are mostly quotes, with few lines of his own thoughts. observation is practically 0. I say we lynch DoTA.