Damn. I had a great clear plan, but it didn’t work. It won’t work anymore after this point but if we get another scum flip we can go back from here and look at bids against known scum and potentially clear some one. Unfortunately only waffles and iso bid against DOTA. Interestingly, iso lost the item to 4 Silver to his 1 gold. Isn’t that equal?
Correct me if I'm wrong but if we just clear like.. 8 players and then mow through the remaining 6 we just win the game? Won't be the prettiest way to win the game but it's probably the most effective way to play this.
Finish massclaim -> let's have everyone agree on a consensus 7-8 people as town -> do not care about lynch/vig order and just go through PoEs
Correct me if I'm wrong but if we just clear like.. 8 players and then mow through the remaining 6 we just win the game? Won't be the prettiest way to win the game but it's probably the most effective way to play this.
Finish massclaim -> let's have everyone agree on a consensus 7-8 people as town -> do not care about lynch/vig order and just go through PoEs
Mhm, we have a lot of mechanical clears this game so this is pretty much what we plan to do. The unfortunate part for you is with a claim like that, you are first in front of the lawnmower.
Before you catch up, what were your impressions of Gemma and Tom in the chat, and why ?
Yeah that's fine, I'm fine being vigged/lynched whenever so we can close out the game.
tom.. I kind of got cold feet on tom because I was scumreading him on Day 2 but he + Gemma kind of talked me out of it. As of right now.. I think one of them has to be scum but probably not the other. I'm still not a big fan of tom's play Day 2 but I haven't read what he has done Today and Gemma just has a lot of trouble catching up with the game.
RE: Cyan’s claim, I probably should have seen that coming. Either Cyan is SK with 4 scum or he’s town with 5 scum, but I have no idea how to distinguish him between uninformed alignments and after some thinking I’m probably not going to drive myself crazy by trying. Just going to write him off as “never scum” for now.
Part of me wants to use the Ruby to kill Killjoy just to see if he's actually bulletproof and let Cyan shoot me.
Then he can explain why he shot the real town vig.
Still not bulletproof.
...Is it just Cyan/Tom? That would be just my luck. I ask the other scum to scumread their buddy. That's def a thing I would do.
@Atog: He keeps pushing me not on behavior, but because of narratives he keeps pushing. Like how my role is some "extortionist" role. He's trying to paint my role as a scum role to keep me in the lynch pool.
I don’t disagree and I’m not a fan of the narrative-style of pushing as well, it always feels flawed to me because it just considers one possibility and effect does not imply causation. However, can you explain why you think this makes him scum ? Tom strikes me as someone who I could believe would go after such theories as town. Though I know nothing of the specifics of his meta either way. Do you have more experience playing with him, and if so how does that experience tie into your read ?
Yeah that's fine, I'm fine being vigged/lynched whenever so we can close out the game.
tom.. I kind of got cold feet on tom because I was scumreading him on Day 2 but he + Gemma kind of talked me out of it. As of right now.. I think one of them has to be scum but probably not the other. I'm still not a big fan of tom's play Day 2 but I haven't read what he has done Today and Gemma just has a lot of trouble catching up with the game.
If you don't mind being specific, what were your reasons, and what were the reasons you changed your mind ?
Also since Tom didn't answer me, what time did the neighborhood start and did you all join at the same time ?
Poor Prop, I feel bad for him, he's essentially walking into a deathtrap. But yeah having the trifecta of behavior + modgaming + flavorgaming all pointing to one person is a nice change of pace at least in a game where everyone suspicious is confirming themselves left and right.
This might get buried but I will say that I did not submit my AH ability yet, so I can still use it to keep something away from the anon bidder. Not sure what the best one to use it on is though.
Okay, everyone copy/paste this into your notes or at least copy/paste a link to this post in your notes or something.
This is Silver's Claim Extravaganza Part 2.
As I demonstrated I'm a spirit medium, pretty cool stuff. I can even allow dead people to post at night if you're into that kind of thing too.
I do also have a 1-shot auction house ability where I "possess" the auctioneer and make the 2nd highest bidder win instead of the first; as you can see I placed a low bid on KJ's ability and I intend to win with it.
Also, I have no items nor have I ever had any. Catching up on the last couple pages now.
Togs is AH #91 and used his ability to allow Iso to post after he was dead. Iso didn't really say much that hadn't already been said by myself at that point, though ( ), and the post seems to have been made in advance (i.e. when he died rather than when Togs submitted the ability).
I see no real benefit into this, atleast not yet. Its way to early for me to decide if claiming auction numbers helps or hinders town. I can confirm the knowledge that I know someone in this game is town by default and their auction number but its to early for me to tell who that is
once a game I can siphon 1/3 of the money spent on auction items. I probably used it too soon, but at the time I had no idea how much money was actually in circulation.
RE also has the Looking Glass and is AH #77. She used the Looking Glass on N2, and said Prophylaxis did not kill KamikazeArchon. She also has the 7 Cryptic Books of Hsan or whatever, it's just extra money.
I'm a neighbourizer which I already claimed, and I can pay gold any day after I neighborize to find out if my neighbors are in another qt together that night. So basically I'm stupid and didn't actually have any gold stolen I just misread my daystart PM and forgot that I'd asked DV to do the thing.
tom and Proph aren't in another hood together, which isn't very surprising (they're who I neighborized). I'm not caught up with the qt but it's mostly been Proph arguing at tom and tom doing Tom things.
Gemma is AH #51. Her neighborizer is a Day action, and I believe she used it once on Day 1 to chat with Prophylaxis and then added tom to the chat on Day 2. Or vice-versa.
Ok, so I have a partial claim for you guys. I'm a bit of an appraiser. It's not all of my role, but I can tell you this much: Once a day I can see what an item does. Since the most discussed item has been the Auction Logs I looked into it. It's a one-shot day action that publicly reveals target player's auction number.
I plan on using this each day before item voting occurs and will be open for suggestions... starting tomorrow (since I just burned it today).
Terry is AH #32 and was vandalized, losing all of his items and abilities, but still has the Plant of Serenity and Holy Water.
vezokpiraka AKA Harvey Walters, the Town Collector has been lynched.
You are Harvey Walters, the Town Collector.
Harvey was a visiting Professor at Miskatonic University. With doctorates in history, archaeology, and shamanism, one could say he was quite interested in the occult and arcane arts. He had made it a priority to acquire new items for his research and had even purchased a vault to keep those items safe from those who would steal them.
Abilities
Passive — Vault Has a vault to store 4 items, money and will. You may choose to permanently lock an item in this vault.
Any-Time Action — Analyze Once per game, at any time, you may determine the original owner of an item you have in your possession.
Items
Bandages Night Action — Target player gains 1 sanity. If that player would be killed this night, prevent it. If a kill is prevented this way, that player will die during the next night unless you visit them again. This ability uses 1 Charge.
Starting Charges: 3
Camilla's Ruby Night Action — Lose 1 Sanity. Target player gains 1 Sanity.
I'm happy to go along with the mass claim and since I'm pretty low in the PoE I'll go ahead and claim. I'm sister mary the nun. I started with 2 sanity and 2 silver.
I have one item in my possession a cross which can be melted down to make a gold coin. If anyone but me does it they lose 1 sanity. I lose two.
I have three abilities:
The first I target a player at night they gain two sanity and I lose one.
The second I can once per game as an anytime action destroy an item I posses.
The third is I can set any players sanity to zero or have them gain two sanity. They can't lose sanity the rest of the day. I'd forgotten I had that ability and intend to use it on Silver today. Will probably fire it in 24 hours from now.
I did nothing and gained a sanity N1.
Night two I gave wuffles 2 sanity. He acknowledged this already and mistakenly thought it could be holy water which would have given him 3 sanity instead.
You are "Skids" O'Toole, the Mafia Thief — Tsathoggua.
Money. It was just that simple for Skids. Money was power. And the Old Gods seemed to promise him all the money he could ever want. Women, power, whatever he wanted would be his. He would be a king. Who in their right mind would say no to that. Plus he got to shake a few people down while setting this thing off, and that was just plain fun.
Abilities
Night Action — Thief
If you perform the kill, you may steal an item. You may use this ability twice.
If you can name the item then you may steal that specific item. If it does not exist you will steal a random item instead.
Night Action — Heist
Once per game, you may conduct a heist. Any number of your fellow Scum members can participate in the heist. Each player will steal an item from the Auction House at random. This is the only Night action for players that participate.
Day Action — Shady Connections
Once per game, you may sell an item anonymously.
Items
Seven Cryptical Books of Hsan
Any-Time Action — Can be sold to a collector after Day 3 for 2 Gold.
I began the game as vanilla town (Town Beggar) with two items, an unclaimed one and the King in Yellow Screenplay.
The Screenplay said only something to the effect of "You feel like you should read this weird play."
I used it as a night action last night. When actions resolved, I gained the following abilities:
My role name was changed to include the word "Insane". My alignment was not altered.
My Sanity score is set to -5. I do not die if my sanity is less than -4, but I will die if my sanity is 0 or greater.
I have a night kill that must be used each night. I don't know what happens if I don't submit a kill yet.
If I am not on the lynch wagon, I will die.
I also have the Scroll of the Elder Sign, which banishes an Elder God sent against the holder, and the Ruby of R'lyeh which can give non-factional abilities priority. I just put the Ruby up on the AH and someone should buy it so Cyan stops trying to lynch me. Thx.
I am AH #17.
ShadowlancerX has been lynched they were Trish Scarborough, the Mafia Warlock — Nygotha
You are Trish Scarborough, the Mafia Warlock — Nygotha.
It seemed so surreal when she was approached by a recruiter after one of her gymnastic meets all those years ago. Somehow, she had come to the attention of a nameless agency working for the government to protect the country. Never one to turn down a new challenge, Trish had eagerly signed up.
One of the first things that they taught her is that there is strength in focus — in joining the mind to the body to exceed the whole. With her agile body and formidable mind, she was soon one of their best spies.
But recently, Trish has begun to wonder at the motives of the organization she works for. Are they really tied to the government, or is she working for some sort of shadowy society ruling the country from behind the scenes? Her quiet inquiries eventually led her to the small city of Arkham, Massachusetts.
Once she came to Arkham, things changed. They offered her power and she took it. This is what she had been working for her whole life.
Abilities Passive — Inept Operator
Gold only counts for two Silver.
Two Silver only counts as one Silver.
Any-Time Action — Weaken Mind
Until the next cycle, if target player would lose Sanity, they lose an additional 1 Sanity.
Usable only once per cycle
Day Action — Curse
Once per game, you may curse target player. Any item that player uses tonight is destroyed.
Items
Nygatha's Tablet
Night Action — Target a player. You find out either their role, their items, or the amount of money that they have at random. You lose 1 sanity.
KamikazeArchon has been ripped to shreds they were Vincent Lee, the Town Healer
You are Vincent Lee, the Town Healer
A Yale Graduate of Medicine, Vincent has recently moved to Arkham from Boston to practice at St. Mary's Hospital. Since his coming to Arkham, he has seen far too many horrible and unexplained deaths — an elderly victim torn apart by unknown wild animals, a healthy young man whose heart exploded, and so many others. Their faces haunt his dreams, especially the young man's terrified expression. After all this, small wonder that Vincent has begun to wonder if there's something sinister going on in this quiet Massachusetts town.
Tonight Dr. Lee made the decision to investigate the mysteries of Arkham and stop the strange deaths. He is determined to see this through, even if in so doing he himself becomes a puzzle for the next doctor who comes to Arkham.
Abilities
Day Action — Healer
Each day phase, you may target a player to place a protection bubble on them that prevents all kill abilities (but not lynching). If that player is saved this way, that player loses 2 Sanity to a minimum Sanity level of 1 above insane.
Items
Holy Water
Any-time Action — Target player gains 3 sanity.
Can be used during the day.
Iso has gone insane they were Luke Robinson, the Town Hider.
You are Luke Robinson, the Town Hider.
It was many years ago when Luke discovered the Dreamlands. He climbed down the Seventy Steps of Light Slumber, faced the judgement of Nasht and Kamen-Tha, and walked through the Doors of Sleep into another world.
There, Luke had grand adventures, returning each night while he slept to explore the strange and wonderful land he'd discovered. In time, he began to start seeking the deeper mysteries of the places he went and the beings he talked to. He peeled back layers of secrecy until he came across a great truth — the Dreamlands were real and he could physically travel there.
Luke wasted no time. He settled his affairs in the waking world and gathered up the mystic puzzle box his Uncle had left him. Then, he traveled to the gateway he'd learned of and passed through it, for what he thought was for good.
But word came to him in the golden fields of the Dreamlands that a great evil is awakening, and the waking world is in danger. So, gathering up his possessions once more, Luke returns to Arkham to help defeat this ancient evil. After all, although New England may seem dull and provincial after the splendors of the Dreamlands, it's still home.
Abilities
Night Action — Dreamer
Each night phase, you may hide in the other world. If you do, you lose 1 Sanity.
Night Action — Shared Dream
Once per game, you may hide both yourself and another player. That player loses 1 sanity and you lose 2 sanity. If that loss of sanity would kill the other player, that player gains 1 sanity instead. You may talk directly to that other player for as long as you two are hidden.
Items
Owl Statue
Night Action — Each night phase, this can be placed at a player's door and alert if that player would be targeted that night. (This works on hidden players and on yourself).
I am a roleblocker, but my role isnt called the role blocker, this is my full claim:
Role Name: Town Occultist
Starting Sanity: 1
Current Sanity: -1
Ability Send Spirits: Target another player, and block them from using "their" own ability. If successful, me and my target both lose sanity. If I don't lose sanity, then its safe to assume that the player used no ability that night, or the ability wasn't "their" own.
Night 1: RE
Unsuccessful
Night 2: Killjoy
Successfully stopped his action, we both lost one sanity, or at least he should have also.
-2 Sanity, which gave me the current sanity of -1
Most people already know my auction number, and I kinda want to keep my money secret
So. I think a claim is necessary now. I am Mark Harrigan, Town Bodyguard. I have one item and two abilities.
My item is a diary which I've already said is just a QT that I can write in whenever and when I die, it'll be posted in the thread.
My first ability is a typical Bodyguard ability, where I protect someone at night and if I do so successfully, I die. Further, if I do not successfully protect someone, I gain a Sanity.
My second ability is to sell my abilities to the highest bidder. If you look in the auction thread, you'll see a notification of that.
Night 1 I targeted Rhand, thinking that he is a good analyst and might have been town.
Night 2 I targeted Wuffles, as promised. Or I would have, had I not been blocked by Last. The flavor received jives with Last's claim.
It should be noted that I was considering targeting Kami, but decided not to be cause I thought maybe the scum might have some sort of roleblock.
Last night, I lost two Sanity. One from Last's ability, one from somewhere else. I also did not gain a Sanity because I was blocked and therefore unsuccessful.
I'm town thief
I also robbed the auction house n1 (I got the map), so 4 scum went heisting
I also attempted to steal money from shadow when he died but he didn't have any (and also it would have gone to me anyway)
I'll (publicly) steal from whoever we lynch today which should be a nice confirm of my role but the fact my alibi n1 is "also robbing the auction house" prolly keeps me in the poe anyway lol
I've got some other abilities plus the 3 items I've aquired hopefully I can use them well
tom is AH #31 and has the Pocket Watch, the Map of Other Worlds, and shadow's tablet of random effects, in addition to, possibly, an unclaimed item he stole from the AH on N2.
I'm the Vig. The actual vig, Michael McGlen Town Gunslinger. I can fire every other night, which is exactly why I wanted to have this conversation tomorrow, but clearly there is nothing for it at this point. I can't sell or give away my item. If I get lynched, it is confiscated. If someone else gets it(theft I guess), it only has one shot for them. I have a passive that lets me use 2 items per night(now 3 thanks to the PB), and when I kill someone I can steal either gold or items from them. I forgot to specify which one I wanted to steal N1, so I didn't get either.
Maybe now you understand a little better why I think your claim is bogus. I cannot accept that the town has 2 multi-shot Vigs.
I obviously shot DOTA. And when you're not voting at the end of the day and 'mysteriously' don't die, you're next. Because if ANYONE in this game is the SK, it's clearly you.
I bandaged myself because my role is incredibly valuable, and I thoroughly expected the scum to shoot at me. I still can't believe that they didn't when they knew I was onto DOTA. Oh well.
Lol what? You are saying that I should have just outed myself as the vig? Because some people asked for it? Are you joking? I didn't want to have to claim today at all. I wanted to be able to deal with Silver discretely if it came down to it. Now he has the upper hand. I know that you're completely enamored with him for reasons unknown, but we're not all that easily beguiled.
Cyan, believe it or not, it's not because of that.
SILVERCRYS has been literally nothing but town this entire game, and has freely claimed two downsides to his role that are revoltingly confirmable upon pain of if he's lying he's making the dumbest ******* gambit in MTGS history.
You on the other hand led us by the freaking snout for two whole days by not claiming that. It's a bit too convenient for you to claim it now as town. That ship afaic has sailed. I was pretty happy with your original reasoning behind togs being the one that outed terry's auction#, but like you could have done that as easily as SK as with any other alignment. Also, your argument that "your role was important and needed protection" as to why you bandaged yourself as a total unknown role which was not in any way likely to be a NK target instead of the CONFIRMED DOCTOR is ridiculous, and a sure sign that you're looking after only yourself. You're trapped, and basically dead in the water tomorrow once silver flips town.
Cyan claiming the kill removes a lot of tinfoil from the game which is nice. If silver flips SK he's lock town. And if Silver flips town he's still maybe town but possibly SK.
Vote: Proph
I didn't give Silver sanity for two main reasons first because it wouldn't have prevented an extra body from flipping last night. And second because Wuffles was low based on their claim, was confirmed town, and the mask had fallen into evil hands.
I'm not gonna have any hands at all once Grape sees you claimed vig, probably.
I definitely won't have any by end of day regardless.
I... don't really understand what you think I'm going to do, I guess.
I don't even have the Ruby so worst case we kill each other. I guess that's what you're worried about?
I already said I wasn't going to shoot you. I don't know what you want from me other than my cold, dead corpse, and I'm already trying to give that to you.
Wuffles, forgive me for not taking you seriously, considering that you're only alive because you had a truth potion to drink on Day 2 and get you out of being the scummiest person in the game at the time. That having been said..
@Silver: Man. The side of me that loves strong mafia play(regardless of alignment, but particularly when it's an SK performance) is thoroughly at war with the side of me that is practical and just wants to analyze your claim and put your great behavior aside. You've put on a great show this game, and I honestly feel like you should get to keep playing. And I've been wrong about things like this before. Sooooooo **** it. If other people want you to stay in the game, I won't argue about it anymore. Even if you're lying about some aspects of your role, chances are that one of Grape/Terry/Myself can resolve you later. If you've gone to these lengths as scum, you've fooled me and probably deserve to win anyway. I can't see you being mafia here, so I guess we can wait awhile longer and see what shakes out. Clearing out a couple of these questionable bodies at night seems okay anyway, rather than having to lynch them. So who should we lynch? Also, /inb4 people start saying that I just don't want Silver to flip town. That's not it. A guy can have a change of heart once in awhile, even me.
That having been said, if you kill me at night after this olive branch offering, I'm going to hold it against you for years.
We probably just have to lynch Proph here, even though putting exactly one Vanilla in a game like this honestly seems like a thing that would happen.
I saw Cyan claimed vig Silver. That's why I said he's lock town if you're not and still probably town regardless.
If you resolve by not being in the lynch today and flip town I'll get paranoid about Cyan at some stage but for now I'm content.
If you live through the EoD I'm snap setting your sanity to zero and if that doesn't kill you I will not rest till you flip. I believe you're town and right now the MVP would be between you or Cyan but I don't want to carry that risk into the end game.
Anyway if Proph flips scum like he probably will this shouldn't be too hard.
I saw Cyan claimed vig Silver. That's why I said he's lock town if you're not and still probably town regardless.
If you resolve by not being in the lynch today and flip town I'll get paranoid about Cyan at some stage but for now I'm content.
If you live through the EoD I'm snap setting your sanity to zero and if that doesn't kill you I will not rest till you flip. I believe you're town and right now the MVP would be between you or Cyan but I don't want to carry that risk into the end game.
Anyway if Proph flips scum like he probably will this shouldn't be too hard.
Man Silver. I wanted to ask you how scummy this post is, on a scale of 1 Billion to infinity, but then I remembered that you've been defending Grape all day.
Well if Proph is scum, the scum probably don't have Daychat. There would likely be a list of claims in it and he would have known not to claim vanilla.
@Silver: Proph being so lurky is concerning. I feel like that's a thing he does as scum.Also there was that bit where he was trying to get my lynched for lurking while himself lurking which I do not beleive town proph would do. He could be one.
I've been townreading last all game. I still do. He's tonally town etc.I also don't think scum! him targets me not knowing that I'm an actual power role.
I don't think RE is scum. kinda simlar reason to last.
Togs could be. His role claim kinda bugs me. MAybe its a typo but Seance isn't a person.Also behaviorally he hasn't been the best.
Gemma. I recall having a townread on that slot at some point, but it's stale now.
Grape I typically have a hard time accurately reading. He kinda goes from town to scum and back again during a game. He's kinda like Huntzilla I feel: The way he types makes him kinda... misunderstood.
So, In order of priority: Proph>Togs>Gemma>>Grape>>>>RE>>>>>>>Last.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@DBS When you saying you're clearing Wisp/RE for the Shin/Wisp debate early are you talking about their RVS scuffle?
Proph's town read on me is so bad. It goes from activity, to scum!Grape probably doesn't focus on mechanics this much because he'd be worried, to scum!Grape probably isn't ballsy enough to push back at my town read of him. His moving me to null looks a bit better (reevaluating me in light of Dota's flip) but he never follows up on what he was interested in looking at wrt it.
Don't know what to make of Silver souring his read on me the second he discovered I hold his life in my hands. For someone who had been calling for a day kill D2, calling me scum wanting to silence him (who had been town reading me) isn't a great look. My SK% for him is rising.
KJ not dying is the biggest mystery of the game to me right now. It makes me want to lynch him, but I'm pretty sure that's bad process.
@Cyan ignoring how scummy you think I am what do you make of tom?
@KJ since you're not bulletproof what's your working headcannon for why you're alive? Also I'm taking the Huntz comparison as a compliment even though context suggests it wasn't.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Terry and Rhand either pulled insane gambits or are town. Also Rhand is probably actually cleared by how many people it would take to be scum with him and still have 4 people going on the heist. Because a part of me is afraid he'd pull that insane bus on Shadow.
Pretty much everyone else except tom and Proph have mechanical alibi's of some sort for some of their actions that make them look townie. About half have some form of confirmation from other players.
Ignoring the mechanics I'd have Wisp, Silver, and Cyan as the towniest from that group roughly in that order.
KJ and Gemma as the scummiest.
tom and DBS are off in their own little category.
Proph is a weird case in this where he pushed two scum on D1. He didn't push either incredibly hard, but he did push them and that is the biggest and only argument for town!Proph at this stage. Cyan pushed one scum very hard on D1. DBS pushed one pretty softly but definitely pushed one.
Factoring in claims Silver and Cyan are in their own little world where they almost certainly both don't exist as town, but both have been very townie this game to the point where it's hard to trust my game design read here. It just seems impossible to have a two shot town!Vig and a chance of a mandatory nightly town!Vig. I don't want to lynch either of them but if Silver is town he needs to remove himself from the game so we can have a serious look at Cyan. Who is never scum, and pretty solid looking at behavior but just could be a third party killing role and solving naturally. It's just impossible to ignore, despite feeling highly unlikely. Either way we resolve the Silver part of this today or tonight.
Wisp, Gemma, and KJ all have very believable set up specific riders to otherwise normal abilities. There are enough that it's possible scum realized the possibility and made a fake one, but I see all 3 abilities as likely town. Assuming that KJ does actually offer protection and it isn't some form of trap. I approve of this protection going to Cyan tonight even if his bidding against himself was strange. Gemma's rider is just so bizarre. And would exclusive need to be a town one. Wisp's rider as I guessed earlier is really interesting contrasted with Iso's. It just feels comparatively scummy. It also gives scum interactive and soft investigative in one role which would fit the current flips because they're lacking both abilities. Problem is I really see town Wisp on behavior here. If I have time tonight I intend to reread because he would fit in so many scum teams but just feels viscerally townie.
Atog gets his own category. His softing on D1 doesn't really line up with his eventual claim, but unless it's an item that is letting him seance he just feels like he has to be town. I don't really believe that there would be a inherent scum!medium.
RE and DBS are similar where they have verification for their claims but it doesn't really give much insight to their alignments. DBS tracked Rhand which for most other players would have been a red flag but she had shown seemingly organic scum feelings towards him D1. *NB reread this to see how legit it was* that said it doesn't prevent her from being a wolf or town. Just means she wasn't a heist wolf. And I could see scum electing to only send 4 members on the heist and leave their investigative off it (probably not scum with Wisp as a result). But despite my earlier claims that I can't read her I do think she's town. Don't feel strongly about the read but just think she is. RE is in a super weird place where she feels like she should have feared Wisp's play D2 if she was a heist wolf, but on further investigation I don't think she would have. And people tend to be ignoring this. A standard tracker wouldn't have seen her, and she knew she hadn't been successfully roleblocked. So I do think it was safe to claim no actions N1. That said I keep coming back to the peek. She was happy to confirm Terry was town and just seemed to play that in a townie way. It's probably within her scum range to do so but she did play it townie. The tinfoil here is she knew and auction number and didn't mind helping town clear that player because the plan was to kill him anyway. But still this all relies on her being confident she wouldn't have been caught by any investigative taking an action N1. Which maybe isn't as safe as I think it would have been.
Tom and Proph have nothing that exonerates them at all mechanically. And Proph claiming Vanilla is a bad look. I do not believe this game would have a vanilla in it. So I think I'm at roughly:
Grape
Wuffles Iso
Kami
Vezok
Terry
Rhand
Silver/Cyan
Atog
Wisp (pending reread)
Gemma?
I think Silver just never shot me. He lied about being mandatory perhaps. I don't see scum protecting me, and I for sure don't see town doing it.
If he lied about being mandatory do you think the dying for being off wagon is truthful then? What about the inverted sanity? Basically where do you stand on Silver overall?
@Geape: I was pretty sold on Tom before today, but I'm less so at this point. It doesn't feel like he is really trying to advance the town agenda at all, and sometimes it feels like he is just trying too hard to be his normal aloof self.
That having been said, U do have a hard time buying the scum team having 2 separate thief roles. Maybe Tom is some kind of neutral that needs to steal/acquire certain items to win? I dunno. I just don't feel good about him like I did during Day 2. However, it's possible that this is because he just seems to be going out of his way to be obnoxious lately. I had trouble reading Seppel back in the day for similar reasons.
@KJ: It makes complete sense for the mafia to stop you from being NKed. There was a real chance that you get lynched today, which certainly works in their favor if you're town. Plus the missing kill makes Silver look bad.
Plus, you know, you could just be acum, and obviously they'd want to protect you then, heh.
Honestly, why you're alive is a big sticking point for me right now. But since we've moved on from lynching you, I suspect that the scum will just kill you honestly. You can't just leave a protective role running around forever. Eventually they'll actually prevent an NK that the mafia actually cares about, heh.
Lying about a bunch of things that make you look like the SK is a pretty weird line. Like, you have to be really deep in WIFOM and really confident in your own bluffing ability to say to yourself, "Maybe if I present myself exactly like In the SK, they'll think that I'm not because why would I tell the truth about all of that?"
Maybe Tom still has the Ancient Tablet and can clear this up tonight. IIRC, it's a Rolecop item right?
Actually, that brings up a great point. Tom, we're mass claiming here. It's time for you to reveal whatever info you got from using the Tablet last night. Also, if you didn't investigate Silver, please explain why.
@Cyan on tom I get what you're saying about him not seeming to have a drive here. In Pirates and Secret Neighbors he was still tom, but I from an informed position really picked up on a solving drive. Here it's shown up occasionally, but not consistently.
Also I did forget that he's stolen twice from the AH proving he can do it without the heist... Which you're right is probably in favor of him being town. Also totally on board with tom claiming.
@RE why did you bid against yourself twice for the looking glass?
Did you see D_V's post in between? Prior to my bidding, Shinichi bid 1 silver on the potion of truth, and since I only had 2 silver at the time, I couldn't bid 2 silver on the looking glass. So I had to use my gold.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
@RE why did you bid against yourself twice for the looking glass?
Did you see D_V's post in between? Prior to my bidding, Shinichi bid 1 silver on the potion of truth, and since I only had 2 silver at the time, I couldn't bid 2 silver on the looking glass. So I had to use my gold.
I did miss that. I was confused by the strike since a previous count had you bidding the 2 silver.
@Cyan: problem is my life is as much in Grape's hands as it is yours, and he pretty much has to kill me to save face regardless of his alignment because he keeps threatening me.
I appreciate the vote of confidence though.
As far as Grape goes, I haven't really defended him since I made the first PoE post. He's one of the three potential heist wolves that could have killed Kami. It couldn't have been you because your kill flavor is gunshot. I guess it could've been Togs but wolf medium is ~weird~. Killjoy is like, also plausible I guess since I think wolves get up to three actions, but it had to have been one of them, I think, or the RE/Proph team and RE is a much bolder wolf than I am.
shadow's tablet gives a random piece of information about the target; money, role, or items. He claimed he got interesting information from it though and I want him to claim it, because if he used it on someone in the PoE and knows they're lying about their role or saw they have a Heist item or something that'd be pretty good for us. re: Proph, I choose to believe his lurking isn't AI. For me, really, it just comes down to the fact that he's in the mechanical PoE and he claimed vaniila. Like, the Heist Wolves hvs to be somewhere. Problem is there probably isn't much of a distinction between wolf!Proph and town!Proph here.
Proph’s claim cleared the little doubt I had about him. He’s scum, and his Shadow interactions are pretty telling there too.
I’ll see if I can get a claim analysis in.
My claim:
I am Tommy Muldoon, town Rookie Cop.
Rookie means that I can only use my role once and that I am not allowed to use items that use sanity.
I started without items, but got willed Iso’s Owl Statue.
N1 I copped Shadow
N2 I didn’t do anything and regained a sanity.
I won’t be using Iso’s item because it doesn’t do much, and if I don’t keep regaining sanity, the sanity loss item thing will kill me soon.
I really don’t know what to think about the Cyan/Silver situation. I townread both of them, but that’s a lot of killing power for town to have. And then the tommy gun on top of that.
Idk about Tom tho, I'm still happy with my vote on RE.
Silver/Cyan there has to be an SK in there, or it's KJ... Still wish I knew why KJ didn't die...
@Terry
I can only laugh at ur attempts to keep tunneling me
@Cyan
God ur claim is as bad as Proph's. But u and silver have both been pretty towny. So idk, but honestly ur claim makes u scummier then silver imo...
Ok so proph had the claim list since I linked silvers post to gemma last night.
Being the only vanilla claim is something, but he would have known he was the only one.
That's a lot of money though. I guess we already knew he spent ~double my starting gold on his item
Other than that I don't think so unless you have a really good alibi for N1.
Shadow didn’t bid once.
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Curse PremiumI'm Lola Hayes, Town Vanilla. I started with 3 Gold and 3 Silver. I have no abilities.
Day 2 I bought the Telescope in order to get a night action and watched Cyan. No one visited him.
I am also in a neighbor chat with Gemma and Tom and I lost one sanity last night I assume due to the Mask.
I was hoping you had an alibi Proph.
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Curse PremiumFinish massclaim -> let's have everyone agree on a consensus 7-8 people as town -> do not care about lynch/vig order and just go through PoEs
There's definitely two wolves in the following list:
Lastwhisper, RE1031, Gemma, Atogaholic, Killjoy, Grapefruit, Prophylaxis.
Whether there's a fifth wolf, I don't know.
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Curse Premium{Prophylaxis, RE1031, JoeTerry, Cyan, dawningbluesky, Wuffles, Rhand, Silvercrys}
POE:
{Lastwhisper, killjoy, Grape, tomsloger, Gemma, Atogaholic}
?
Before you catch up, what were your impressions of Gemma and Tom in the chat, and why ?
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Curse Premiumtom.. I kind of got cold feet on tom because I was scumreading him on Day 2 but he + Gemma kind of talked me out of it. As of right now.. I think one of them has to be scum but probably not the other. I'm still not a big fan of tom's play Day 2 but I haven't read what he has done Today and Gemma just has a lot of trouble catching up with the game.
I don’t disagree and I’m not a fan of the narrative-style of pushing as well, it always feels flawed to me because it just considers one possibility and effect does not imply causation. However, can you explain why you think this makes him scum ? Tom strikes me as someone who I could believe would go after such theories as town. Though I know nothing of the specifics of his meta either way. Do you have more experience playing with him, and if so how does that experience tie into your read ?
I gained sanity 2 nights in a row from doing nothing, then lost one, putting me at 1 in the end.
Nope. No way. You're literally the only claimed vanilla in the game and are in the POE.
'bye
Vote: Prophylaxis. Btw, using the philosopher's stone tonight if I win it.
Also since Tom didn't answer me, what time did the neighborhood start and did you all join at the same time ?
You were supposed to let him catch up and give him a chance to out his partner(s) before telling him he's the only vanilla.
This might get buried but I will say that I did not submit my AH ability yet, so I can still use it to keep something away from the anon bidder. Not sure what the best one to use it on is though.
This is Silver's Claim Extravaganza Part 2.
All claims:
Togs is AH #91 and used his ability to allow Iso to post after he was dead. Iso didn't really say much that hadn't already been said by myself at that point, though (
RE also has the Looking Glass and is AH #77. She used the Looking Glass on N2, and said Prophylaxis did not kill KamikazeArchon. She also has the 7 Cryptic Books of Hsan or whatever, it's just extra money.
Gemma is AH #51. Her neighborizer is a Day action, and I believe she used it once on Day 1 to chat with Prophylaxis and then added tom to the chat on Day 2. Or vice-versa.
Terry is AH #32 and was vandalized, losing all of his items and abilities, but still has the Plant of Serenity and Holy Water.
Grapefruit is AH #89.
Dawning is AH #38 and tracked Rhand N1 with the given result, tracked Gemma N2 with no results.
Rhand is AH #67 and might have an item.
I also have the Scroll of the Elder Sign, which banishes an Elder God sent against the holder, and the Ruby of R'lyeh which can give non-factional abilities priority. I just put the Ruby up on the AH and someone should buy it so Cyan stops trying to lynch me. Thx.
I am AH #17.
Lastwhisper is AH #75.
Killjoy is AH #45.
tom is AH #31 and has the Pocket Watch, the Map of Other Worlds, and shadow's tablet of random effects, in addition to, possibly, an unclaimed item he stole from the AH on N2.
Cyan is AH #58 and has the Bandages.
Prophylaxis is AH #24 and has the Telescope.
Wuffles is AH #15 and has the Rift of Zhar and the Twin Scepters, and has been exempted from mass claiming for taking the poisoned pill.
(Items are still not exhaustive, but this time I'm just being lazy. I think I got most of them the first go-around.)
And yes, it looks like just tom, Rhand, and Dawning left.
I cannot for the life of me think of a reason why cyan would not have claimed the Dotarchon kill if he were town when we asked.
SILVERCRYS has been literally nothing but town this entire game, and has freely claimed two downsides to his role that are revoltingly confirmable upon pain of if he's lying he's making the dumbest ******* gambit in MTGS history.
You on the other hand led us by the freaking snout for two whole days by not claiming that. It's a bit too convenient for you to claim it now as town. That ship afaic has sailed. I was pretty happy with your original reasoning behind togs being the one that outed terry's auction#, but like you could have done that as easily as SK as with any other alignment. Also, your argument that "your role was important and needed protection" as to why you bandaged yourself as a total unknown role which was not in any way likely to be a NK target instead of the CONFIRMED DOCTOR is ridiculous, and a sure sign that you're looking after only yourself. You're trapped, and basically dead in the water tomorrow once silver flips town.
Vote: Proph
I didn't give Silver sanity for two main reasons first because it wouldn't have prevented an extra body from flipping last night. And second because Wuffles was low based on their claim, was confirmed town, and the mask had fallen into evil hands.
I definitely won't have any by end of day regardless.
I... don't really understand what you think I'm going to do, I guess.
I don't even have the Ruby so worst case we kill each other. I guess that's what you're worried about?
I already said I wasn't going to shoot you. I don't know what you want from me other than my cold, dead corpse, and I'm already trying to give that to you.
Obviously if you lynch a few wolves and the game doesn't end he shouldn't be cleared forever but.
He's not a wolf, he shot DoTA. Lynch the wolves first.
@Silver: Man. The side of me that loves strong mafia play(regardless of alignment, but particularly when it's an SK performance) is thoroughly at war with the side of me that is practical and just wants to analyze your claim and put your great behavior aside. You've put on a great show this game, and I honestly feel like you should get to keep playing. And I've been wrong about things like this before. Sooooooo **** it. If other people want you to stay in the game, I won't argue about it anymore. Even if you're lying about some aspects of your role, chances are that one of Grape/Terry/Myself can resolve you later. If you've gone to these lengths as scum, you've fooled me and probably deserve to win anyway. I can't see you being mafia here, so I guess we can wait awhile longer and see what shakes out. Clearing out a couple of these questionable bodies at night seems okay anyway, rather than having to lynch them. So who should we lynch? Also, /inb4 people start saying that I just don't want Silver to flip town. That's not it. A guy can have a change of heart once in awhile, even me.
That having been said, if you kill me at night after this olive branch offering, I'm going to hold it against you for years.
We probably just have to lynch Proph here, even though putting exactly one Vanilla in a game like this honestly seems like a thing that would happen.
If you resolve by not being in the lynch today and flip town I'll get paranoid about Cyan at some stage but for now I'm content.
If you live through the EoD I'm snap setting your sanity to zero and if that doesn't kill you I will not rest till you flip. I believe you're town and right now the MVP would be between you or Cyan but I don't want to carry that risk into the end game.
Anyway if Proph flips scum like he probably will this shouldn't be too hard.
Man Silver. I wanted to ask you how scummy this post is, on a scale of 1 Billion to infinity, but then I remembered that you've been defending Grape all day.
But Cyan I really do not care at all about how scummy you think I am.
@RE why did you bid against yourself twice for the looking glass?
@Silver: Proph being so lurky is concerning. I feel like that's a thing he does as scum.Also there was that bit where he was trying to get my lynched for lurking while himself lurking which I do not beleive town proph would do. He could be one.
I've been townreading last all game. I still do. He's tonally town etc.I also don't think scum! him targets me not knowing that I'm an actual power role.
I don't think RE is scum. kinda simlar reason to last.
Togs could be. His role claim kinda bugs me. MAybe its a typo but Seance isn't a person.Also behaviorally he hasn't been the best.
Gemma. I recall having a townread on that slot at some point, but it's stale now.
Grape I typically have a hard time accurately reading. He kinda goes from town to scum and back again during a game. He's kinda like Huntzilla I feel: The way he types makes him kinda... misunderstood.
So, In order of priority: Proph>Togs>Gemma>>Grape>>>>RE>>>>>>>Last.
Proph's town read on me is so bad. It goes from activity, to scum!Grape probably doesn't focus on mechanics this much because he'd be worried, to scum!Grape probably isn't ballsy enough to push back at my town read of him. His moving me to null looks a bit better (reevaluating me in light of Dota's flip) but he never follows up on what he was interested in looking at wrt it.
Don't know what to make of Silver souring his read on me the second he discovered I hold his life in my hands. For someone who had been calling for a day kill D2, calling me scum wanting to silence him (who had been town reading me) isn't a great look. My SK% for him is rising.
KJ not dying is the biggest mystery of the game to me right now. It makes me want to lynch him, but I'm pretty sure that's bad process.
@Cyan ignoring how scummy you think I am what do you make of tom?
@KJ since you're not bulletproof what's your working headcannon for why you're alive? Also I'm taking the Huntz comparison as a compliment even though context suggests it wasn't.
Wuffles is town.
Grape
Wuffles
IsoKami
Vezok
Terry and Rhand either pulled insane gambits or are town. Also Rhand is probably actually cleared by how many people it would take to be scum with him and still have 4 people going on the heist. Because a part of me is afraid he'd pull that insane bus on Shadow.
Terry
Rhand
RE1031
Lastwhisper
Gemma
Killjoy
Prophylaxis
Cyan
Dawningbluesky
Atogaholic
Tomsloger
Silvercrys3467
Pretty much everyone else except tom and Proph have mechanical alibi's of some sort for some of their actions that make them look townie. About half have some form of confirmation from other players.
Ignoring the mechanics I'd have Wisp, Silver, and Cyan as the towniest from that group roughly in that order.
KJ and Gemma as the scummiest.
tom and DBS are off in their own little category.
Proph is a weird case in this where he pushed two scum on D1. He didn't push either incredibly hard, but he did push them and that is the biggest and only argument for town!Proph at this stage. Cyan pushed one scum very hard on D1. DBS pushed one pretty softly but definitely pushed one.
Factoring in claims Silver and Cyan are in their own little world where they almost certainly both don't exist as town, but both have been very townie this game to the point where it's hard to trust my game design read here. It just seems impossible to have a two shot town!Vig and a chance of a mandatory nightly town!Vig. I don't want to lynch either of them but if Silver is town he needs to remove himself from the game so we can have a serious look at Cyan. Who is never scum, and pretty solid looking at behavior but just could be a third party killing role and solving naturally. It's just impossible to ignore, despite feeling highly unlikely. Either way we resolve the Silver part of this today or tonight.
Wisp, Gemma, and KJ all have very believable set up specific riders to otherwise normal abilities. There are enough that it's possible scum realized the possibility and made a fake one, but I see all 3 abilities as likely town. Assuming that KJ does actually offer protection and it isn't some form of trap. I approve of this protection going to Cyan tonight even if his bidding against himself was strange. Gemma's rider is just so bizarre. And would exclusive need to be a town one. Wisp's rider as I guessed earlier is really interesting contrasted with Iso's. It just feels comparatively scummy. It also gives scum interactive and soft investigative in one role which would fit the current flips because they're lacking both abilities. Problem is I really see town Wisp on behavior here. If I have time tonight I intend to reread because he would fit in so many scum teams but just feels viscerally townie.
Atog gets his own category. His softing on D1 doesn't really line up with his eventual claim, but unless it's an item that is letting him seance he just feels like he has to be town. I don't really believe that there would be a inherent scum!medium.
RE and DBS are similar where they have verification for their claims but it doesn't really give much insight to their alignments. DBS tracked Rhand which for most other players would have been a red flag but she had shown seemingly organic scum feelings towards him D1. *NB reread this to see how legit it was* that said it doesn't prevent her from being a wolf or town. Just means she wasn't a heist wolf. And I could see scum electing to only send 4 members on the heist and leave their investigative off it (probably not scum with Wisp as a result). But despite my earlier claims that I can't read her I do think she's town. Don't feel strongly about the read but just think she is. RE is in a super weird place where she feels like she should have feared Wisp's play D2 if she was a heist wolf, but on further investigation I don't think she would have. And people tend to be ignoring this. A standard tracker wouldn't have seen her, and she knew she hadn't been successfully roleblocked. So I do think it was safe to claim no actions N1. That said I keep coming back to the peek. She was happy to confirm Terry was town and just seemed to play that in a townie way. It's probably within her scum range to do so but she did play it townie. The tinfoil here is she knew and auction number and didn't mind helping town clear that player because the plan was to kill him anyway. But still this all relies on her being confident she wouldn't have been caught by any investigative taking an action N1. Which maybe isn't as safe as I think it would have been.
Tom and Proph have nothing that exonerates them at all mechanically. And Proph claiming Vanilla is a bad look. I do not believe this game would have a vanilla in it. So I think I'm at roughly:
Grape
Wuffles
IsoKami
Vezok
Terry
Rhand
Silver/Cyan
Atog
Wisp (pending reread)
Gemma?
KJ
tom
DBS
RE
Proph
ShadowDota
If he lied about being mandatory do you think the dying for being off wagon is truthful then? What about the inverted sanity? Basically where do you stand on Silver overall?
That having been said, U do have a hard time buying the scum team having 2 separate thief roles. Maybe Tom is some kind of neutral that needs to steal/acquire certain items to win? I dunno. I just don't feel good about him like I did during Day 2. However, it's possible that this is because he just seems to be going out of his way to be obnoxious lately. I had trouble reading Seppel back in the day for similar reasons.
@KJ: It makes complete sense for the mafia to stop you from being NKed. There was a real chance that you get lynched today, which certainly works in their favor if you're town. Plus the missing kill makes Silver look bad.
Plus, you know, you could just be acum, and obviously they'd want to protect you then, heh.
Honestly, why you're alive is a big sticking point for me right now. But since we've moved on from lynching you, I suspect that the scum will just kill you honestly. You can't just leave a protective role running around forever. Eventually they'll actually prevent an NK that the mafia actually cares about, heh.
Maybe Tom still has the Ancient Tablet and can clear this up tonight. IIRC, it's a Rolecop item right?
Actually, that brings up a great point. Tom, we're mass claiming here. It's time for you to reveal whatever info you got from using the Tablet last night. Also, if you didn't investigate Silver, please explain why.
Also I did forget that he's stolen twice from the AH proving he can do it without the heist... Which you're right is probably in favor of him being town. Also totally on board with tom claiming.
I did miss that. I was confused by the strike since a previous count had you bidding the 2 silver.
I appreciate the vote of confidence though.
As far as Grape goes, I haven't really defended him since I made the first PoE post. He's one of the three potential heist wolves that could have killed Kami. It couldn't have been you because your kill flavor is gunshot. I guess it could've been Togs but wolf medium is ~weird~. Killjoy is like, also plausible I guess since I think wolves get up to three actions, but it had to have been one of them, I think, or the RE/Proph team and RE is a much bolder wolf than I am.
shadow's tablet gives a random piece of information about the target; money, role, or items. He claimed he got interesting information from it though and I want him to claim it, because if he used it on someone in the PoE and knows they're lying about their role or saw they have a Heist item or something that'd be pretty good for us.
re: Proph, I choose to believe his lurking isn't AI. For me, really, it just comes down to the fact that he's in the mechanical PoE and he claimed vaniila. Like, the Heist Wolves hvs to be somewhere. Problem is there probably isn't much of a distinction between wolf!Proph and town!Proph here.
I’ll see if I can get a claim analysis in.
My claim:
I am Tommy Muldoon, town Rookie Cop.
Rookie means that I can only use my role once and that I am not allowed to use items that use sanity.
I started without items, but got willed Iso’s Owl Statue.
N1 I copped Shadow
N2 I didn’t do anything and regained a sanity.
I won’t be using Iso’s item because it doesn’t do much, and if I don’t keep regaining sanity, the sanity loss item thing will kill me soon.
I really don’t know what to think about the Cyan/Silver situation. I townread both of them, but that’s a lot of killing power for town to have. And then the tommy gun on top of that.
Tom is still likely scum.
Idk about Tom tho, I'm still happy with my vote on RE.
Silver/Cyan there has to be an SK in there, or it's KJ... Still wish I knew why KJ didn't die...
@Terry
I can only laugh at ur attempts to keep tunneling me
@Cyan
God ur claim is as bad as Proph's. But u and silver have both been pretty towny. So idk, but honestly ur claim makes u scummier then silver imo...
Being the only vanilla claim is something, but he would have known he was the only one.
That's a lot of money though. I guess we already knew he spent ~double my starting gold on his item
Hmm
@proph why cyan?