I left the neighborhood because i believe tom is scum. Simple as that.
Shadow being super defensive towards me. Kind of aggressive, not typical of his attitude normally.
Yeah, i threw the question out there, but you baited yourself really. You could have just answered, i WAS asking. Instead you declare me as mudslinging and forget to answer the very important part of my question.
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I don't know what to make of the presumed Vanilla'ing of AE (though if it was a different ability with the same flavor that would be really interesting). Is it scum desperate to save AE? Is it scum desperate to save Terry? Is it scum thinking they had a lynch on Terry and wanted to deny a rolecop? Could be desperation to keep Vezo or Az from getting checked. So hard to read it without flips. I think the answer really depends on how many scum are alive. Feels like it's most likely to be to try and save/clear someone if there are two scum alive and more likely to be going for a home run if three are alive. Can I get a sanity check on that bit of wine please.
Anyway assuming I don't decide that's horrible speculation I'm going to try and ISO Terry and AE when I get to work (if I have time) and try to figure out which is more likely to be scum.
I don't know what to make of the presumed Vanilla'ing of AE (though if it was a different ability with the same flavor that would be really interesting). Is it scum desperate to save AE? Is it scum desperate to save Terry? Is it scum thinking they had a lynch on Terry and wanted to deny a rolecop? Could be desperation to keep Vezo or Az from getting checked. So hard to read it without flips. I think the answer really depends on how many scum are alive. Feels like it's most likely to be to try and save/clear someone if there are two scum alive and more likely to be going for a home run if three are alive. Can I get a sanity check on that bit of wine please.
Anyway assuming I don't decide that's horrible speculation I'm going to try and ISO Terry and AE when I get to work (if I have time) and try to figure out which is more likely to be scum.
I'm going to save you some time. I'm not scum. Maybe AE, but I kind of doubt they would throw away his pretty useful ability just to clear him when I'm going to be the most likely Lynch anyway. Most likely we are T/T and scum read my post about us having two role cops and a watcher tonight and sharted their pants.
I left the neighborhood because i believe tom is scum. Simple as that.
Shadow being super defensive towards me. Kind of aggressive, not typical of his attitude normally.
Yeah, i threw the question out there, but you baited yourself really. You could have just answered, i WAS asking. Instead you declare me as mudslinging and forget to answer the very important part of my question.
Why do you think Tom is scum? I have him as one of my top town reads.
And I agree shadow is being cagey, but I think he did answer your question. I have a hard time seeing asking a question to the thread instead of directing it at someone as a bait. I'm not sure what it accomplishes.
I don't know what to make of the presumed Vanilla'ing of AE (though if it was a different ability with the same flavor that would be really interesting). Is it scum desperate to save AE? Is it scum desperate to save Terry? Is it scum thinking they had a lynch on Terry and wanted to deny a rolecop? Could be desperation to keep Vezo or Az from getting checked. So hard to read it without flips. I think the answer really depends on how many scum are alive. Feels like it's most likely to be to try and save/clear someone if there are two scum alive and more likely to be going for a home run if three are alive. Can I get a sanity check on that bit of wine please.
Anyway assuming I don't decide that's horrible speculation I'm going to try and ISO Terry and AE when I get to work (if I have time) and try to figure out which is more likely to be scum.
I'm going to save you some time. I'm not scum. Maybe AE, but I kind of doubt they would throw away his pretty useful ability just to clear him when I'm going to be the most likely Lynch anyway. Most likely we are T/T and scum read my post about us having two role cops and a watcher tonight and sharted their pants.
right it was your post that scared them, not all the other people talking about it for days
I'm going to save you some time. I'm not scum. Maybe AE, but I kind of doubt they would throw away his pretty useful ability just to clear him when I'm going to be the most likely Lynch anyway. Most likely we are T/T and scum read my post about us having two role cops and a watcher tonight and sharted their pants.
Why would scum be afraid of that when you're at L-2 though? Unless Az or Vezo is lying scum there isn't a ton to fear from 1 rolecop (though if they are then that play makes sense (especially if one scum is already dead and you're town). A watcher is powerful in this situation as is a JK. So I'm not sure I buy this is a pure knee jerk fear reaction. I'm sure eliminating one shot of rolecop factored in, but it feels unlikely that is the only factor (unless we haven't killed any scum yet, but I don't believe in that world).
The more I think about it, the more I think it's dangerous to try and draw conclusions from the vanilla on AE. It could be so many different things. I think I'm going to just treat it like a good behavioral post in his favor. And a solid (but not spectacular one) in Terry's favor. I think I was going too deep earlier. Plus I still don't think Terry and Dota are likely buddies.
I don't know what to make of the presumed Vanilla'ing of AE (though if it was a different ability with the same flavor that would be really interesting). Is it scum desperate to save AE? Is it scum desperate to save Terry? Is it scum thinking they had a lynch on Terry and wanted to deny a rolecop? Could be desperation to keep Vezo or Az from getting checked. So hard to read it without flips. I think the answer really depends on how many scum are alive. Feels like it's most likely to be to try and save/clear someone if there are two scum alive and more likely to be going for a home run if three are alive. Can I get a sanity check on that bit of wine please.
Anyway assuming I don't decide that's horrible speculation I'm going to try and ISO Terry and AE when I get to work (if I have time) and try to figure out which is more likely to be scum.
I'm going to save you some time. I'm not scum. Maybe AE, but I kind of doubt they would throw away his pretty useful ability just to clear him when I'm going to be the most likely Lynch anyway. Most likely we are T/T and scum read my post about us having two role cops and a watcher tonight and sharted their pants.
right it was your post that scared them, not all the other people talking about it for days
Pretty sure lynching Joe or lynching AZ and directing Joe into vezok are my only acceptable outcomes today now. Don't really care what either of them have to say atp.
Yeah... No! I’m not scum, you’re actually the one between us that’s not town aligned. You know I wasn’t the only one to Lynch Dota right?
Sell me on Tom scum.
Ill work on something. currently I have some other lines of evidence I’m following, but Tom is in my queue. My points against him is the his counter part, rod, is pretty much slam dunk town due to the census stuff and no flips. On top of that, Tom only has 1 non-faction ability, which I confirmed, so I feel like he must have factional abilities to balance with rod’s census ability. That’s just the setup spec stuff, but then there’s the gimic too that I feel is more likely scum cloaking. I know the only time I’ve done a gimmic was in revolution as scum. I can’t read Tom on meta and we have no flips, so Im going to look harder at it. Im not even convinced he’s scum myself, but I could definitely see it if he was.
I’d like to remind people that I have questions outstanding to AE and Shadow that I’d like answered. They both need to tell us about night 1
Everything from the tugboat that wasn't bolted down was being hurled at the hull by unseen hands.
I think I saw a kitchen sink ricochet just above the waterline and plop into the waves
Everything from the tugboat that wasn't bolted down was being hurled at the hull by unseen hands.
I think I saw a kitchen sink ricochet just above the waterline and plop into the waves
Its called the galley sink and I haven’t thrown it yet
I don't know who is scum anymore and I want more information before lynching possible town.
This AE thing is garbage for the game now. Like ****. Also how did the scum know AE wouldn't copy the vanilla in a split second and see their role? Its so much wine I don't know anymore.
Lynching az iant gonna do ***** any you kmow it tom. You can't be the ONLY "vanilla" in this game. I had an ability as well as being a neighbor. You are lying about it.
Az is not our problem anymore.
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Work was busy and I didn't have time to go through Terry, but AE's ISO was much more manageable. And there are some crazy things in D3 I can't figure out.
AE doesn't have a ton of posts and has a few outstanding questions that need to be answered, but there are some real townie glimmers there.
His early posts are focused on (like most people) Azreal, but unlike most people he spends a lot (relatively) of effort sorting through people's reactions to Az. For example in this one he zero's in on disliking Rodemy's reaction and tries to build consensus to the no hammers plan without overly dwelling on it.
I don't believe your 10 souls claim. In a game this size it would take until night 5 to get all the souls assuming you hammered every day. You might also be getting screwed out of your win con if people with souls die before you can steal them.
Even if all the bull***** was true, survivors are by definition anti-town.
Azrael does not hammer. Simple.
So what if they're anti-town, If they work with the town in lynching scum thats all we can ask.
Tom is doin a storytelling thing that could be a way of misinformation.
I believe azreal, but i still wanna lynch him.
vote azreal
Horrible Vote Rodemy
Quote from Rhand » »
What happens if you hammer someone whose soul you stole before?
Waiting to hear this,
A lot of his D1 posts center on this sort of sorting through the reaction to Az. Specifically pushing Rodemy as scum consistently. One of the key posts that stuck out to me as townie was this one breaking down DBS' poor (lack of a) case against him in 647. It's a nice catch on a complete lack of (shown) progression. DBS offers a plausible explanation for it later, but no more than plausible. Despite this AE doesn't vote her then. In fact he doesn't vote her till 849 just saying he trusts tom and not making a read of his own the reason. Which is a definite red flag (lack of convictions in own reads, and trying to avoid ownership of his actions).
D2 is spent picking apart DoTa and Nancy for Dota's push against him. Some of it rings a bit hollow (the hypocrisy accusation since DoTa has no control over nancy's play) but the point that it really isn't a case and more of a grasp at low hanging fruit rings true. The soundness of AE's points outweighs the fact that this is the second time he's cross voted the lynch of day.
D3 is really confusing, but not in a way that screams townie or scum. Just in a confusing I'm not sure if his story makes sense or not way. I can't figure out if his stated progession on Terry/Az works. I actually need other people to check this, these are in chronological order and I can't figure out if there is a consistent story to them. My brain was saying yes 45 minutes ago, but now it's saying no.
@AE: why did you assume Terry was neutral and not scum?
Because he targeted me. I thought non-factional meant players with no faction...ie neutral. Not town or scum. Thats why I wanted AZ to target me.
Oh, how the tide has turned now that you and Grape got caught. Before the slip, it seemed like you were pretty willing to White knight me.
Ummmmm, no. Where'd you get that? The unvote comment? They were coming fast. Wanted everyone to slow down. Funny how you saw that and tried getn a wagon on AZ. The neutral.
I have nothing to come clean about, because I already claimed my full role, down to a tee.
Yea forget I asked, My thought process went down the wrong path.
No idea what Terry is going off about, and absolutely no idea why he wouldn't have targeted me last night, as suspicious as he's been pretending to be about me. That seems like an obvious, slam dunk play for him if he really doubted my claim.
So scum got concerned with why I wanted you to target me. It was DoTA that was mentioning me soft claiming a power role so Terry ran with that.
@AE: How did you know it was Terry who targeted you?
I didn't, which is why I said AZ lied. I thought he targeted me.
I can't tell if he is posting in a way that is possible if he thought he was targeted by Az. I think the first post works, but I'm waffling. I want further eyes on it. If it works that he thinks he was targeted by Az, then I think AE is pretty townie overall, but if not he needs to be lynched. That plus his solid cases D1 and 2 outweigh his disowning of the DBS vote and lurking. Just depends on if this works and I can't figure it out right now. Gun to my head I think it's coherent confusion but I've had to stop and focus on work while typing this like four times and I can't wrap my brain around it right now.
Lynching az iant gonna do ***** any you kmow it tom. You can't be the ONLY "vanilla" in this game. I had an ability as well as being a neighbor. You are lying about it.
Az is not our problem anymore.
A lot of designers look to put quasi vanilla's into games like this to keep nights from being too swingy and unbalanced. Roles that require interacting with other targeted ones like Kazin's or AE's are further examples of that. I also have maintained since D1 that tom breaking Gimmick like he's been doing is a town tell for him. He's so eager to solve the game he can't help but post normally. If anything him being rolecopped as a neighbor only strongly suggests he's town since we know scum isn't advantaged via numbers and that he' not 1/3 of the scum team because he doesn't have the jailor ability (which can't be a factional ability).
Agree that lynching Az doesn't help anything though.
Lynching az iant gonna do ***** any you kmow it tom. You can't be the ONLY "vanilla" in this game. I had an ability as well as being a neighbor. You are lying about it.
Breaking gimmik is a good way to protect himself later. If he gimmickdd the entire way, he wouldnt appear to be solving and he would be lynched for it.
Im done arguing. When we lose the game, maybe my voice will be heard more. Or grapefruit is third scum.
Tom shadow grape. Calling it now.
But no, lets lynch the confirmed nuet for "info"
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@Tom it is bizzare but it's hard to read into without flips. It could be indicating vastly different things and it largely depends on whether the scum team is at full strength or not. And the most obvious answer with my set of assumptions (dota is dead scum) is that it's a desperation play to save one of the two (Terry and AE) doesn't line up with my behavioral reads (Terry is never s/s with Dota and AE I think is townie if I'm reading his D3 right). It's full of drunken circles and hard to sort out. And all of that could be way off base if there are no dead scum because that changes their motivations there drastically. No flip games suck...
@Rodemy Tom's shown game solving in gimmick form before. I'd argue he was showing it this game before he broke gimmick. Look at Maelstrom of Alara for a gimmick game where he was town and didn't break it but was town read. If it was "cover" than I feel like he would have reverted harder to gimmick after breaking it for credit, but that is a bit more winey.
I can't get over how little scum vanillizing him makes sense.
Like, over whichever of DV/shadow is town? Over grape?
I think it literally makes the most sense for it to be a wolf on wolf crime attempting to clear archmage with it.
I guess it could also make sense with vezok (or AZ) as wolf. Or maybe even a desperation move to keep Joe alive?
But man it's so bizarre
This is interesting. Like zero chance Kazin AND AE or scum, can you both please confirm what your pm said regarding the loss of your ability. Details about day and night abilities and factional and non factional abilities working or not working please
I can't get over how little scum vanillizing him makes sense.
Like, over whichever of DV/shadow is town? Over grape?
I think it literally makes the most sense for it to be a wolf on wolf crime attempting to clear archmage with it.
I guess it could also make sense with vezok (or AZ) as wolf. Or maybe even a desperation move to keep Joe alive?
But man it's so bizarre
This is interesting. Like zero chance Kazin AND AE or scum, can you both please confirm what your pm said regarding the loss of your ability. Details about day and night abilities and factional and non factional abilities working or not working please
ebwop: Like zero chance kazin AND AE are both scum...
Proof #4242 that no one reads walls... Would someone please check AE's D3 progression outlined in my post and tell me if it makes any sense. I'm swinging back to thinking it doesn't add up.
I think that everything that’s gone on with the AE vanilla shot is wine, and I don’t trust Terry still. Can’t help but get the feeling that he’s trying to make any excuse he can fit into the world where it makes him look town.
vote Terry
@Rodemy: I can’t pick whether to protect or roleblock, it’s all or nothing. As such, while I hoped Az might get vigged, I was more interested in making sure he didn’t get out of hand. If the only things I’ve done that make you think I’m scum are attempt to jail Az and have a version of jailer that isn’t the same as the last time then I can’t help you.
Terry's attitude is really similar to Prison Block mafia when he was in LyLo. He seems really disperate.
@Rodemy : I am 99.99% sure that tom, shadow, grape are not the scum team. I don't see shadow and tom on the same team in a million years.
Well if you did an in-depth read of my meta, you'd be able to tell that I'm much more likely to hammer as a town PR than I am as scum. As far as I can tell, the only reason I'm on the chopping block today is because I hammered DOTA, who's slot I've been pushing all game. Everything else people are throwing at me is a direct result of me being pushed for that hammer.
I think that everything that’s gone on with the AE vanilla shot is wine, and I don’t trust Terry still. Can’t help but get the feeling that he’s trying to make any excuse he can fit into the world where it makes him look town.
vote Terry
@Rodemy: I can’t pick whether to protect or roleblock, it’s all or nothing. As such, while I hoped Az might get vigged, I was more interested in making sure he didn’t get out of hand. If the only things I’ve done that make you think I’m scum are attempt to jail Az and have a version of jailer that isn’t the same as the last time then I can’t help you.
Get out of hand? Your entire attitude d1 was wanting him dead. And you said he could steal souls at night.
Jailing him n1 is the COMPLETE opposite of that.
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Terry: Cause she claimed to make her target immune, which is apparently what my jailling them does.
@Rod: I didn’t ever say I’d be okay with him stealing souls with impunity, I think I said I wanted him to prove his ability. But I was far more interested in limiting him from the get go and having proof about soul stealing later.
@Terry: Cause she claimed to make her target immune, which is apparently what my jailling them does.
She did? I only wrote down 1 shot doc.
I'm actually assuming she had several one shot abilities regardless of her alignment btw. She'd totally leave it out as town. And her role name was "Magical merchant"
Also grape does that too.
And kazin's claim did it to himself I think?
1. Rhand (Johnny, Repairman) - Stabbed in the Back Night 1: I think it's safe to assume this was a Scum NK so Rhand was Town, but no real indication what his role may have been. 2. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry: Town AF Role Cop, meta alone should clear me, but I'm also a Town investigative role, so there's that too. Yeah I hammered Nancy and think plain town neighbor is underpowered when the other neighbor was a census taker that pretty much confirms them town and voted Tom. 3. dawningbluesky (Barbosa, Magical Merchant) - Walked the Plank Day 1: I think Barbosa was an JOAT type role that had a bunch of one shots. I think the Kraken was one of them, maybe it was the vanillaizer, maybe both. If I'm going with this theory. It may imply that Kazin is town. 4. vezokpiraka: Claimed Bullet Proof, I'm not crazy about this slot and always super paranoid about BP claims. 5. Nobue_Itoh D_V: Claimed Watcher, Targeted Kami N1 redirected to me, no one targeted me. N2, attempted to target Tom, but it failed. I had some issues with the Nobue slot, but when he switched to DV, I was less offended by that slot. 6. Archmage Eternal*: Confirmed Absorber by me Night 2, Just got nailed by the Vanillaizer, probably town. Held a rolecop shot, but it was taken away. 7. KamikazeArchon (Deadeye, the Captain's Parrot) - Defeathered and fried Night 2: Town Replicator. His ability Copies person A and targets person B, he was redirected to Nancy (A) and targeted Rhand (B). Rhand ended up dying. Kami was suspicious that Nancy may have been a vig or mafia who's original NK was blocked. 8. shadowlancerx - Claimed Jailer, Targeted Az, redirected to Kazin N1. Targeted DV Night 2. DV confirmed that he was blocked, even though Shadow never knew it. I still think Shadow is town, even if he's wrong about me. He seems like he left off of me for a bit when as scum I think he'd just keep pushing. 9. Nancy Drew 39* DoTArchon (Turtleshell, Ship Medic) - Walked the Plank Day 2 - Claimed Town Kill Delayer, said Nancy didn't use it N1. I feel like I was probably wrong on this one and DOTA was town 10. Kazin Drake - Claimed Batgut the Swashbuckler, Town Loudmouth? Reading back through Kazin's claim is pretty confusing. What it sounds like he does is Target someone and he became the only person they could target, he even mentioned this stops night kills... He got hit with the Vanilla Cream Beam D1 which would heavily imply town, but think about this... this role (nearly certain town) AND a town bulletproof!? Uhh uh, Vezo is scum. Kazin also explains that if the person that targets him is his target, he motivated them and they get a second shot. I could see this maybe balancing out with a BP but I have to squint really hard. Kazin, please correct me on any of this, if I'm misunderstanding. 11. Grapefruit21 - Jack the deckhand, Two Shot reflector maker? So the person that he targets DURING the day... causing them to reflect any ability targeting them back to the source. This has some very interesting similarities to the Kraken and Cream Beam announcements. However, Day 1 the Kraken and the Cream Beam went off, making it less likely they are from the same source. Still has me questioning this. 12. Azrael - Claimed The Flying Dutchman, Soul Sucking Neutral Survivor. Claims like his first post of the game, Rodemy's Census confirms there is in fact one neutral, which no one else has claimed. It appears he is being truthful about his role under my implied role cop pressure (not great pressure I know, but w/e). He has the ability to make us lose, but also should count as a non-scum in voting options, so there is a plus (thank you Az for pointing that out). Seems to have only claimed 1 soul and that is of Rodemy Night 1. 13. tomsloger - Lazarus, heir to the ship, Neighbor with Rodemy. With Rodemy being a Neighbor + Census and obv town, I think this is solid setup spec that Tom probably has scum benefits for his Neighbor +. 14. Rodemy - Captain, Neighbors with Tom plus Census Taker. I think the Census ability in this no flip mess is certainly Town, he's showing proper distrust of his Neighbor Tom, his push on Shadow is very interesting regarding Shadow's claim list order. It shows proper distrust whether its right or not. Rod is just hands down town. His Census says 10 town, 1 Neut, 3 scum
So just judging from the set up stuff, here's what I'm looking:
DBS was probably scum controlling the Kraken, but not the Vanillizer.
Vezo claimed bulletproof and there play has felt disjointed and aggressive, but the main thing tipping my scales on this is that having a BP AND Kazin's role AND Shadow's AND Grape's role all active at the same time seems incredibly town-sided. Kazin is near confirmed town from the Cream Beam. I feel like shadow is playing town, but am interested in what Rodemy is saying about him. Grape seems interesting, but today we had Cream Beam and Deck Swab played, which means it's pretty likely that they don't have the same source. We also had Cream Beam and Smackin Kraken played, suggesting that they don't have the same source either. Smackin Kraken and Deck Swab could both be from one source though.
If I'm betting money on DBS being scum though, I bet he fired off Kraken when things looked bad for him Day 1. That leaves a Cream Beamer and a Flip hider as the remaining two scum. If I'm balancing a game, I love symmetry and I think it would be beautiful to have the flip hider and census taker neighbors. I got to go with Tom as scum #2.
That leaves me with the challenge of finding out who's been creaming on everyone. My gut is telling me we have too much protection in Shadow, Grape, and Kazin (I know the ability has been creamed, but I'm looking at balance here), that's not even counting the dead claimed Kill Delayer. Besides Kazin, I feel like shadow is the most town of them based on play. A Jailer ability is a pretty well rounded established ability and it was proven on DV, but I suppose he could be a lying Roleblocker too. I also have been pretty conformable with Grape's play, but his similarity to the other day shots, make actually make him more likely town in balance Ville. That leaves Vezo, who's play has caused me to raise my brows pretty frequently this game. He's my least likely of the three and I could be convinced on Shadow or Grape.
@Terry: Cause she claimed to make her target immune, which is apparently what my jailling them does.
She did? I only wrote down 1 shot doc.
I'm actually assuming she had several one shot abilities regardless of her alignment btw. She'd totally leave it out as town. And her role name was "Magical merchant"
Also grape does that too.
And kazin's claim did it to himself I think?
Yeah, her being a JOAT wouldn’t surprise me either. And grape makes his target reflect as claimed which is slightly different.
Shadow being super defensive towards me. Kind of aggressive, not typical of his attitude normally.
Yeah, i threw the question out there, but you baited yourself really. You could have just answered, i WAS asking. Instead you declare me as mudslinging and forget to answer the very important part of my question.
Anyway assuming I don't decide that's horrible speculation I'm going to try and ISO Terry and AE when I get to work (if I have time) and try to figure out which is more likely to be scum.
@rodemy
Why do you think Tom is scum? I have him as one of my top town reads.
And I agree shadow is being cagey, but I think he did answer your question. I have a hard time seeing asking a question to the thread instead of directing it at someone as a bait. I'm not sure what it accomplishes.
Why would scum be afraid of that when you're at L-2 though? Unless Az or Vezo is lying scum there isn't a ton to fear from 1 rolecop (though if they are then that play makes sense (especially if one scum is already dead and you're town). A watcher is powerful in this situation as is a JK. So I'm not sure I buy this is a pure knee jerk fear reaction. I'm sure eliminating one shot of rolecop factored in, but it feels unlikely that is the only factor (unless we haven't killed any scum yet, but I don't believe in that world).
Also I kind of just think you're scum.
Terry/Tom can die whenever.
@Grape - You're right, they weren't scum buddies...because DOTA was mislynched by scum Terry.
Preference is still just lynching Joe.
Sell me on Tom scum.
I’d like to remind people that I have questions outstanding to AE and Shadow that I’d like answered. They both need to tell us about night 1
I think I saw a kitchen sink ricochet just above the waterline and plop into the waves
Galley sink was clearly the right phrase there
I apologize
This AE thing is garbage for the game now. Like ****. Also how did the scum know AE wouldn't copy the vanilla in a split second and see their role? Its so much wine I don't know anymore.
Unvote Vote Azreal
I'm just not gonna trust Joes info though, and id rather just lynch scum.
Az is not our problem anymore.
AE doesn't have a ton of posts and has a few outstanding questions that need to be answered, but there are some real townie glimmers there.
His early posts are focused on (like most people) Azreal, but unlike most people he spends a lot (relatively) of effort sorting through people's reactions to Az. For example in this one he zero's in on disliking Rodemy's reaction and tries to build consensus to the no hammers plan without overly dwelling on it.
A lot of his D1 posts center on this sort of sorting through the reaction to Az. Specifically pushing Rodemy as scum consistently. One of the key posts that stuck out to me as townie was this one breaking down DBS' poor (lack of a) case against him in 647. It's a nice catch on a complete lack of (shown) progression. DBS offers a plausible explanation for it later, but no more than plausible. Despite this AE doesn't vote her then. In fact he doesn't vote her till 849 just saying he trusts tom and not making a read of his own the reason. Which is a definite red flag (lack of convictions in own reads, and trying to avoid ownership of his actions).
D2 is spent picking apart DoTa and Nancy for Dota's push against him. Some of it rings a bit hollow (the hypocrisy accusation since DoTa has no control over nancy's play) but the point that it really isn't a case and more of a grasp at low hanging fruit rings true. The soundness of AE's points outweighs the fact that this is the second time he's cross voted the lynch of day.
D3 is really confusing, but not in a way that screams townie or scum. Just in a confusing I'm not sure if his story makes sense or not way. I can't figure out if his stated progession on Terry/Az works. I actually need other people to check this, these are in chronological order and I can't figure out if there is a consistent story to them. My brain was saying yes 45 minutes ago, but now it's saying no.
I can't tell if he is posting in a way that is possible if he thought he was targeted by Az. I think the first post works, but I'm waffling. I want further eyes on it. If it works that he thinks he was targeted by Az, then I think AE is pretty townie overall, but if not he needs to be lynched. That plus his solid cases D1 and 2 outweigh his disowning of the DBS vote and lurking. Just depends on if this works and I can't figure it out right now. Gun to my head I think it's coherent confusion but I've had to stop and focus on work while typing this like four times and I can't wrap my brain around it right now.
A lot of designers look to put quasi vanilla's into games like this to keep nights from being too swingy and unbalanced. Roles that require interacting with other targeted ones like Kazin's or AE's are further examples of that. I also have maintained since D1 that tom breaking Gimmick like he's been doing is a town tell for him. He's so eager to solve the game he can't help but post normally. If anything him being rolecopped as a neighbor only strongly suggests he's town since we know scum isn't advantaged via numbers and that he' not 1/3 of the scum team because he doesn't have the jailor ability (which can't be a factional ability).
Agree that lynching Az doesn't help anything though.
I'm just a neighbor
I can't get over how little scum vanillizing him makes sense.
Like, over whichever of DV/shadow is town? Over grape?
I think it literally makes the most sense for it to be a wolf on wolf crime attempting to clear archmage with it.
I guess it could also make sense with vezok (or AZ) as wolf. Or maybe even a desperation move to keep Joe alive?
But man it's so bizarre
Im done arguing. When we lose the game, maybe my voice will be heard more. Or grapefruit is third scum.
Tom shadow grape. Calling it now.
But no, lets lynch the confirmed nuet for "info"
@Rodemy Tom's shown game solving in gimmick form before. I'd argue he was showing it this game before he broke gimmick. Look at Maelstrom of Alara for a gimmick game where he was town and didn't break it but was town read. If it was "cover" than I feel like he would have reverted harder to gimmick after breaking it for credit, but that is a bit more winey.
It doesnt add up. On top of that, he wanted to protect him from nk. He's the nuet survivor that even shadow didnt want alive d1.
Why is this not indicative of scum? Someone other than tom grape and shadow please tell me
vote Terry
@Rodemy: I can’t pick whether to protect or roleblock, it’s all or nothing. As such, while I hoped Az might get vigged, I was more interested in making sure he didn’t get out of hand. If the only things I’ve done that make you think I’m scum are attempt to jail Az and have a version of jailer that isn’t the same as the last time then I can’t help you.
@Rodemy : I am 99.99% sure that tom, shadow, grape are not the scum team. I don't see shadow and tom on the same team in a million years.
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I’m assuming you have a point?
Get out of hand? Your entire attitude d1 was wanting him dead. And you said he could steal souls at night.
Jailing him n1 is the COMPLETE opposite of that.
tomsloger (1): TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Archmage Eternal (1): Kazin Drake
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (4): tomsloger, vezokpiraka, D_V, shadowlancerx (L-2)
shadowlancerx (2): Azrael, Rodemy
Azrael (1): D_V
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
-
The deadline expires on March 15th at 1300 hours.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Rod: I didn’t ever say I’d be okay with him stealing souls with impunity, I think I said I wanted him to prove his ability. But I was far more interested in limiting him from the get go and having proof about soul stealing later.
She did? I only wrote down 1 shot doc.
I'm actually assuming she had several one shot abilities regardless of her alignment btw. She'd totally leave it out as town. And her role name was "Magical merchant"
Also grape does that too.
And kazin's claim did it to himself I think?
1. Rhand (Johnny, Repairman) - Stabbed in the Back Night 1: I think it's safe to assume this was a Scum NK so Rhand was Town, but no real indication what his role may have been.
2. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry: Town AF Role Cop, meta alone should clear me, but I'm also a Town investigative role, so there's that too. Yeah I hammered Nancy and think plain town neighbor is underpowered when the other neighbor was a census taker that pretty much confirms them town and voted Tom.
3. dawningbluesky (Barbosa, Magical Merchant) - Walked the Plank Day 1: I think Barbosa was an JOAT type role that had a bunch of one shots. I think the Kraken was one of them,
maybe it was the vanillaizer, maybe both. If I'm going with this theory. It may imply that Kazin is town.4. vezokpiraka: Claimed Bullet Proof, I'm not crazy about this slot and always super paranoid about BP claims.
5.
Nobue_ItohD_V: Claimed Watcher, Targeted Kami N1 redirected to me, no one targeted me. N2, attempted to target Tom, but it failed. I had some issues with the Nobue slot, but when he switched to DV, I was less offended by that slot.6. Archmage Eternal*: Confirmed Absorber by me Night 2, Just got nailed by the Vanillaizer, probably town. Held a rolecop shot, but it was taken away.
7. KamikazeArchon (Deadeye, the Captain's Parrot) - Defeathered and fried Night 2: Town Replicator. His ability Copies person A and targets person B, he was redirected to Nancy (A) and targeted Rhand (B). Rhand ended up dying. Kami was suspicious that Nancy may have been a vig or mafia who's original NK was blocked.
8. shadowlancerx - Claimed Jailer, Targeted Az, redirected to Kazin N1. Targeted DV Night 2. DV confirmed that he was blocked, even though Shadow never knew it. I still think Shadow is town, even if he's wrong about me. He seems like he left off of me for a bit when as scum I think he'd just keep pushing.
9.
Nancy Drew 39*DoTArchon (Turtleshell, Ship Medic) - Walked the Plank Day 2 - Claimed Town Kill Delayer, said Nancy didn't use it N1. I feel like I was probably wrong on this one and DOTA was town10. Kazin Drake - Claimed Batgut the Swashbuckler, Town Loudmouth? Reading back through Kazin's claim is pretty confusing. What it sounds like he does is Target someone and he became the only person they could target, he even mentioned this stops night kills... He got hit with the Vanilla Cream Beam D1 which would heavily imply town, but think about this... this role (nearly certain town) AND a town bulletproof!? Uhh uh, Vezo is scum. Kazin also explains that if the person that targets him is his target, he motivated them and they get a second shot. I could see this maybe balancing out with a BP but I have to squint really hard. Kazin, please correct me on any of this, if I'm misunderstanding.
11. Grapefruit21 - Jack the deckhand, Two Shot reflector maker? So the person that he targets DURING the day... causing them to reflect any ability targeting them back to the source. This has some very interesting similarities to the Kraken and Cream Beam announcements. However, Day 1 the Kraken and the Cream Beam went off, making it less likely they are from the same source. Still has me questioning this.
12. Azrael - Claimed The Flying Dutchman, Soul Sucking Neutral Survivor. Claims like his first post of the game, Rodemy's Census confirms there is in fact one neutral, which no one else has claimed. It appears he is being truthful about his role under my implied role cop pressure (not great pressure I know, but w/e). He has the ability to make us lose, but also should count as a non-scum in voting options, so there is a plus (thank you Az for pointing that out). Seems to have only claimed 1 soul and that is of Rodemy Night 1.
13. tomsloger - Lazarus, heir to the ship, Neighbor with Rodemy. With Rodemy being a Neighbor + Census and obv town, I think this is solid setup spec that Tom probably has scum benefits for his Neighbor +.
14. Rodemy - Captain, Neighbors with Tom plus Census Taker. I think the Census ability in this no flip mess is certainly Town, he's showing proper distrust of his Neighbor Tom, his push on Shadow is very interesting regarding Shadow's claim list order. It shows proper distrust whether its right or not. Rod is just hands down town. His Census says 10 town, 1 Neut, 3 scum
So just judging from the set up stuff, here's what I'm looking:
DBS was probably scum controlling the Kraken, but not the Vanillizer.
Vezo claimed bulletproof and there play has felt disjointed and aggressive, but the main thing tipping my scales on this is that having a BP AND Kazin's role AND Shadow's AND Grape's role all active at the same time seems incredibly town-sided. Kazin is near confirmed town from the Cream Beam. I feel like shadow is playing town, but am interested in what Rodemy is saying about him. Grape seems interesting, but today we had Cream Beam and Deck Swab played, which means it's pretty likely that they don't have the same source. We also had Cream Beam and Smackin Kraken played, suggesting that they don't have the same source either. Smackin Kraken and Deck Swab could both be from one source though.
If I'm betting money on DBS being scum though, I bet he fired off Kraken when things looked bad for him Day 1. That leaves a Cream Beamer and a Flip hider as the remaining two scum. If I'm balancing a game, I love symmetry and I think it would be beautiful to have the flip hider and census taker neighbors. I got to go with Tom as scum #2.
That leaves me with the challenge of finding out who's been creaming on everyone. My gut is telling me we have too much protection in Shadow, Grape, and Kazin (I know the ability has been creamed, but I'm looking at balance here), that's not even counting the dead claimed Kill Delayer. Besides Kazin, I feel like shadow is the most town of them based on play. A Jailer ability is a pretty well rounded established ability and it was proven on DV, but I suppose he could be a lying Roleblocker too. I also have been pretty conformable with Grape's play, but his similarity to the other day shots, make actually make him more likely town in balance Ville. That leaves Vezo, who's play has caused me to raise my brows pretty frequently this game. He's my least likely of the three and I could be convinced on Shadow or Grape.
What?
@Grape? do you have a question?
They hate us cause they ain't us.