@Kamikaze I'm not a fan of derp clears normally, but yeah, Kazin is town after that.
@Nobue I think you're missing my point. You thought the claim was anti-town enough that you assumed it must be someone trying to get lynched. But when you realized it couldn't be a jester you're happy to leave it alive. So yeah that doesn't quite add up to me. You must have thought the role was heavily anti town to have your instinct be to think it was someone trying to get lynched.
@Shadow I'm actually really confused by the town reads I'm getting. I don't feel like I've done much this game. Agree with KamiArchon. Been impressed by him so far. Rhand I'm not as high on as you but he's been good. Just not confident that I can read him. Think he's been a positive overall. Similar to tom for me actually. Have them in a similar space right now.
The other thought I had was: maybe this is a ploy to try and avoid lynching to see the first night scum chat and not get lynched before he could try to make alliances play.
I figured if he was scum this would have been a potential slip, and if he was town the details would line up as to why he’d make assumptions about Night chat.
1) Archmage Eternal. Absolutely useless posts, but I especially don'y like #173. The exact same post was given by terry a few posts back. My gut is saying this isn't right at all.
2)Kazin Drake. His first posts go after Azrael like there's no tomorrow and then he suddenly shifts his stance and decides to leave Az alive. This feels like a going with the wave. I also don't really like the jump on Nobue wagon.
I don't have a clear third scum read I need to see more posts from people.
What do you think of Kazin’s town tell, do you think as scum he’d actually be able to pull off not believing scum know who their buddies are?
Why don’t you like 173? I get that you don’t trust Az, but unless you think Az is scum and Archmage is his partner, I don’t see a scum motive for that line.
@Kazin: cool, so my question now is: Did Kamikaze describe the night only chat to you when telling you about the forum layout of this game?
It was described to me, and I read the description and rules of the game. Unless I wildly misread/understood the situation, Scum doesn't get access to the Night Chat prior to the night phase. Which means they could accidentally target one another in the day time.
How do both of you know scum have night chat when it wasn't confirmed anywhere in thread?
I don’t, in fact day chat for this game would not surprise me (Iso’s previous game had day chat, as did the last normal to run here), but as pointed out above, Kazin believed it and I wanted to figure out why.
@Shadow I'm actually really confused by the town reads I'm getting. I don't feel like I've done much this game. Agree with KamiArchon. Been impressed by him so far. Rhand I'm not as high on as you but he's been good. Just not confident that I can read him. Think he's been a positive overall. Similar to tom for me actually. Have them in a similar space right now.
There is meat to your posts, you’re pursuing a line of thought, and one of the big things that pinged town to me is your treatment of your read on Dawning. You could have easily scum read her but you dug into the why of the matter and didn’t.
@Dawning: Talk to me about your play in Zero Escape vs how you’re approaching/going to approach this game? Did you take anything away from that game as to how to improve or change? Do you plan to play this game pretty similarly?
My main focus now has shifted to Nobue... The general responses she's given have tossed up red flags. Scum, from my previous games, have always been the quickest to feel the need to over-explain and justify their actions. To try and shoot down 'Defensive' claims or anything else that might call their words into even the slightest bit of question. Because of that, I'm willing to go against my gut instinct to always target the guy who is in it for himself and let him slide for a round or two and see how much of a danger Az becomes in 2-3 days.
I've done the exact opposite of this though. I straight up refused to explain myself, and didn't over explain at all. I did the exact opposite of what you are accusing me of. I only relented after many people kept bringing it up.
Also now I'm defensive for getting annoyed at a fake defensive claim on me. Circular logic much?
This attack is so fake.
Vote Kazin Drake
@Grapefruit.
I didn't see it as relevant at all. My progression makes a lot of sense. I thought hey maybe Azreal is trying to die for the win.
Then it was pointed out to me probably not. So, then the validity of the claim came into question.
I believe Azreal is probably neutral, I believe that his abilities probably are close to how he claimed.
Do I want to lynch him now? No.
Day 4-5 MAYBE. But this can be revisited much later.
Is this game really going to be that easy? Nancy attacks Grape for nothing, I call her scum, Nobue gets all in my face about it and then two posts after Kazin votes her she OMGUS? Then we have Vezo coming in and top scum reading Kazin, who is basically town firmed at this point. Vezo also says he "Really likes Nancy at this point" on this third post of the game.
My main focus now has shifted to Nobue... The general responses she's given have tossed up red flags. Scum, from my previous games, have always been the quickest to feel the need to over-explain and justify their actions. To try and shoot down 'Defensive' claims or anything else that might call their words into even the slightest bit of question. Because of that, I'm willing to go against my gut instinct to always target the guy who is in it for himself and let him slide for a round or two and see how much of a danger Az becomes in 2-3 days.
I've done the exact opposite of this though. I straight up refused to explain myself, and didn't over explain at all. I did the exact opposite of what you are accusing me of. I only relented after many people kept bringing it up.
Also now I'm defensive for getting annoyed at a fake defensive claim on me. Circular logic much?
This attack is so fake.
Vote Kazin Drake
@Grapefruit.
I didn't see it as relevant at all. My progression makes a lot of sense. I thought hey maybe Azreal is trying to die for the win.
Then it was pointed out to me probably not. So, then the validity of the claim came into question.
I believe Azreal is probably neutral, I believe that his abilities probably are close to how he claimed.
Do I want to lynch him now? No.
Day 4-5 MAYBE. But this can be revisited much later.
Is this game really going to be that easy? Nancy attacks Grape for nothing, I call her scum, Nobue gets all in my face about it and then two posts after Kazin votes her she OMGUS? Then we have Vezo coming in and top scum reading Kazin, who is basically town firmed at this point. Vezo also says he "Really likes Nancy at this point" on this third post of the game.
@Vezo: Did you pull scum two games in a row?
You are ridiculous.
Kazin votes me for circular logic, and states other "Weird things" meanwhile you basically OMGUS vote Nancy. Its amazing to me that when you do it, then it is good, when I do it then it is bad.
@Grape I've never seen a neutral claim before. After it sat with me and saw more posts I was ok with the claim. At least for the moment.
My main focus now has shifted to Nobue... The general responses she's given have tossed up red flags. Scum, from my previous games, have always been the quickest to feel the need to over-explain and justify their actions. To try and shoot down 'Defensive' claims or anything else that might call their words into even the slightest bit of question. Because of that, I'm willing to go against my gut instinct to always target the guy who is in it for himself and let him slide for a round or two and see how much of a danger Az becomes in 2-3 days.
I've done the exact opposite of this though. I straight up refused to explain myself, and didn't over explain at all. I did the exact opposite of what you are accusing me of. I only relented after many people kept bringing it up.
Also now I'm defensive for getting annoyed at a fake defensive claim on me. Circular logic much?
This attack is so fake.
Vote Kazin Drake
@Grapefruit.
I didn't see it as relevant at all. My progression makes a lot of sense. I thought hey maybe Azreal is trying to die for the win.
Then it was pointed out to me probably not. So, then the validity of the claim came into question.
I believe Azreal is probably neutral, I believe that his abilities probably are close to how he claimed.
Do I want to lynch him now? No.
Day 4-5 MAYBE. But this can be revisited much later.
Is this game really going to be that easy? Nancy attacks Grape for nothing, I call her scum, Nobue gets all in my face about it and then two posts after Kazin votes her she OMGUS? Then we have Vezo coming in and top scum reading Kazin, who is basically town firmed at this point. Vezo also says he "Really likes Nancy at this point" on this third post of the game.
@Vezo: Did you pull scum two games in a row?
You are ridiculous.
Kazin votes me for circular logic, and states other "Weird things" meanwhile you basically OMGUS vote Nancy. Its amazing to me that when you do it, then it is good, when I do it then it is bad.
@Grape I've never seen a neutral claim before. After it sat with me and saw more posts I was ok with the claim. At least for the moment.
How am I supposed to OMGUS someone that never voted me or let alone even mentioned my name?
My main focus now has shifted to Nobue... The general responses she's given have tossed up red flags. Scum, from my previous games, have always been the quickest to feel the need to over-explain and justify their actions. To try and shoot down 'Defensive' claims or anything else that might call their words into even the slightest bit of question. Because of that, I'm willing to go against my gut instinct to always target the guy who is in it for himself and let him slide for a round or two and see how much of a danger Az becomes in 2-3 days.
I've done the exact opposite of this though. I straight up refused to explain myself, and didn't over explain at all. I did the exact opposite of what you are accusing me of. I only relented after many people kept bringing it up.
Also now I'm defensive for getting annoyed at a fake defensive claim on me. Circular logic much?
This attack is so fake.
Vote Kazin Drake
@Grapefruit.
I didn't see it as relevant at all. My progression makes a lot of sense. I thought hey maybe Azreal is trying to die for the win.
Then it was pointed out to me probably not. So, then the validity of the claim came into question.
I believe Azreal is probably neutral, I believe that his abilities probably are close to how he claimed.
Do I want to lynch him now? No.
Day 4-5 MAYBE. But this can be revisited much later.
Is this game really going to be that easy? Nancy attacks Grape for nothing, I call her scum, Nobue gets all in my face about it and then two posts after Kazin votes her she OMGUS? Then we have Vezo coming in and top scum reading Kazin, who is basically town firmed at this point. Vezo also says he "Really likes Nancy at this point" on this third post of the game.
@Vezo: Did you pull scum two games in a row?
You are ridiculous.
Kazin votes me for circular logic, and states other "Weird things" meanwhile you basically OMGUS vote Nancy. Its amazing to me that when you do it, then it is good, when I do it then it is bad.
@Grape I've never seen a neutral claim before. After it sat with me and saw more posts I was ok with the claim. At least for the moment.
How am I supposed to OMGUS someone that never voted me or let alone even mentioned my name?
I've done the exact opposite of this though. I straight up refused to explain myself, and didn't over explain at all. I did the exact opposite of what you are accusing me of. I only relented after many people kept bringing it up.
Also now I'm defensive for getting annoyed at a fake defensive claim on me. Circular logic much?
This attack is so fake.
Vote Kazin Drake
@Grapefruit.
I didn't see it as relevant at all. My progression makes a lot of sense. I thought hey maybe Azreal is trying to die for the win.
Then it was pointed out to me probably not. So, then the validity of the claim came into question.
I believe Azreal is probably neutral, I believe that his abilities probably are close to how he claimed.
Do I want to lynch him now? No.
Day 4-5 MAYBE. But this can be revisited much later.
Is this game really going to be that easy? Nancy attacks Grape for nothing, I call her scum, Nobue gets all in my face about it and then two posts after Kazin votes her she OMGUS? Then we have Vezo coming in and top scum reading Kazin, who is basically town firmed at this point. Vezo also says he "Really likes Nancy at this point" on this third post of the game.
@Vezo: Did you pull scum two games in a row?
You are ridiculous.
Kazin votes me for circular logic, and states other "Weird things" meanwhile you basically OMGUS vote Nancy. Its amazing to me that when you do it, then it is good, when I do it then it is bad.
@Grape I've never seen a neutral claim before. After it sat with me and saw more posts I was ok with the claim. At least for the moment.
How am I supposed to OMGUS someone that never voted me or let alone even mentioned my name?
Notice the word basically.
Oh you mean, like something completely and totally not accurate? My bad... Basically.
@Vezok: To add on, is the reason you don’t like 173 because it’s parrotting Terry? Do you take issue with Terry saying it?
I somehow missed the way Kazin went about the chat thing. I see now how that makes him town, but I'm not entirely convinced. If this game has daychat, he might have been coached into it, or he came up with this "gambit". He's now not my second scum read.
#173 is just another reason. AE simply restated the same thing terry said, while not commenting on anything else that happened. This on top of his previous posts which where not really informative.
I took some issue (mostly that I don't like when people tell what's not going to happen) with it when terry said, but his overall mindset and posting style has been pretty town in my view.
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My main focus now has shifted to Nobue... The general responses she's given have tossed up red flags. Scum, from my previous games, have always been the quickest to feel the need to over-explain and justify their actions. To try and shoot down 'Defensive' claims or anything else that might call their words into even the slightest bit of question. Because of that, I'm willing to go against my gut instinct to always target the guy who is in it for himself and let him slide for a round or two and see how much of a danger Az becomes in 2-3 days.
I've done the exact opposite of this though. I straight up refused to explain myself, and didn't over explain at all. I did the exact opposite of what you are accusing me of. I only relented after many people kept bringing it up.
Also now I'm defensive for getting annoyed at a fake defensive claim on me. Circular logic much?
This attack is so fake.
Vote Kazin Drake
@Grapefruit.
I didn't see it as relevant at all. My progression makes a lot of sense. I thought hey maybe Azreal is trying to die for the win.
Then it was pointed out to me probably not. So, then the validity of the claim came into question.
I believe Azreal is probably neutral, I believe that his abilities probably are close to how he claimed.
Do I want to lynch him now? No.
Day 4-5 MAYBE. But this can be revisited much later.
Is this game really going to be that easy? Nancy attacks Grape for nothing, I call her scum, Nobue gets all in my face about it and then two posts after Kazin votes her she OMGUS? Then we have Vezo coming in and top scum reading Kazin, who is basically town firmed at this point. Vezo also says he "Really likes Nancy at this point" on this third post of the game.
@Vezo: Did you pull scum two games in a row?
Don't talk about ongoing games
My read on Kazin was misguided as I didn't understand the interaction between him and shadow.
I stand by my comment of linking Nancy, as I like both his/her posting style and the questions she was asking. I'm disappointed that they've been absent from the game since then.
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@Vezok: To add on, is the reason you don’t like 173 because it’s parrotting Terry? Do you take issue with Terry saying it?
I somehow missed the way Kazin went about the chat thing. I see now how that makes him town, but I'm not entirely convinced. If this game has daychat, he might have been coached into it, or he came up with this "gambit". He's now not my second scum read.
I don’t think that situation was one he could have been coached into, I tried to play my line of questioning pretty close to the chest. I don’t even think I’d consider it as a gambit without a very good reason to think he’s scum otherwise.
Quote from Vezok »
#173 is just another reason. AE simply restated the same thing terry said, while not commenting on anything else that happened. This on top of his previous posts which where not really informative.
I took some issue (mostly that I don't like when people tell what's not going to happen) with it when terry said, but his overall mindset and posting style has been pretty town in my view.
What are you seeing that specifically comes from a town!terry mindset?
Getting worse and worse. I don't see these posts coming from a scumhunting mindset. I do see them coming from a "stay alive" mindset.
I'd rather not be mislynched again!
So you're right.
Hey nobue, in that case, talk to me about the pressure on you; does any of it come from scum trying to mislynch you? Objectively, can you see any town rationale from anyone pushing/voting you?
Is this game really going to be that easy? Nancy attacks Grape for nothing, I call her scum, Nobue gets all in my face about it and then two posts after Kazin votes her she OMGUS? Then we have Vezo coming in and top scum reading Kazin, who is basically town firmed at this point. Vezo also says he "Really likes Nancy at this point" on this third post of the game.
@Vezo: Did you pull scum two games in a row?
You are ridiculous.
Kazin votes me for circular logic, and states other "Weird things" meanwhile you basically OMGUS vote Nancy. Its amazing to me that when you do it, then it is good, when I do it then it is bad.
@Grape I've never seen a neutral claim before. After it sat with me and saw more posts I was ok with the claim. At least for the moment.
How am I supposed to OMGUS someone that never voted me or let alone even mentioned my name?
Notice the word basically.
Oh you mean, like something completely and totally not accurate? My bad... Basically.
An OMGUS vote is due to the person saying that there is bad reasoning being used and voting that way. Mostly its a "You're bad" post. I didn't make that claim at all, I pointed out that what was being used against me was circular logic. IE I was defensive because I was defensive. Etc. First off in no way was that an OMGUS. But by your definition I guess that is.
If I am going to take your definition to work with then pointing out the flaws in one case is an OMGUS vote. Which is exactly what you did with Nancy or attempted to do. I disagree on the reasoning and logic used, but what ever for this part of the argument. The only difference is I voted for someone who made a case on me and you voted for someone who made a case on someone else. So BASICALLY. They are the same thing.
Can you please stop trolling me or look up the definitions of the words if you are ESL? Thank you.
Getting worse and worse. I don't see these posts coming from a scumhunting mindset. I do see them coming from a "stay alive" mindset.
I'd rather not be mislynched again!
So you're right.
Hey nobue, in that case, talk to me about the pressure on you; does any of it come from scum trying to mislynch you? Objectively, can you see any town rationale from anyone pushing/voting you?
Ok.
Grape seems to be voting me over the Azreal thread of ideas. I think Grapes thought behind it seems town to me. He is looking for scum based on interactions with neutrals. At least that is how I see the comments. This seems like a decent way to approach the game.
Kazin seems to have the most issues to me. He votes me because of circular logic then reaffirms his vote after I point out how bad it is. Maybe this is town tunneling. But more likely it is scum looking for a miss lynch.
Kamakize's vote seems opportunistic little reasoning. But legitimate reasoning. Neutral to me for the moment. The opportunistic part may just be because I'm feeling attacked right now he is only the third vote on me. So scum voting opportunistically this early seems unlikely, but then again. I could just be wrong.
Finally addressing Terry. Terry is either purposefully misrepresenting me, is ESL, or is tunneling so hard that they are construing everything as bad as they can. However. Despite calling me a wolf and there being a wagon forming on me has yet to jump over. This seems highly questionable to me. But it could be other circumstances as well.
What are your thoughts on these four specifically Terry?
omgus is one of those terms that means different things in different metas, and no one can really properly define it.
Here, it mostly means voting someone that's pushing you.
Regardless, it's among the most poorly used tells in existence. In both directions.
Town clearing is useful, and I understand what you are saying but you don't seem to be saying much.
the coming danger is still hard to see. Vezok cloud is my best guess for what may bring it about.
Currently more interested in protecting the ship.
We have kazin, the figurehead, cutting through the air. Sea life in grape and rhand guiding us through the water. This grouping fills me with warmth.
The rest is slight expectations of help or harm, but not yet illuminated.
Grape seems to be voting me over the Azreal thread of ideas. I think Grapes thought behind it seems town to me. He is looking for scum based on interactions with neutrals. At least that is how I see the comments. This seems like a decent way to approach the game.
Kazin seems to have the most issues to me. He votes me because of circular logic then reaffirms his vote after I point out how bad it is. Maybe this is town tunneling. But more likely it is scum looking for a miss lynch.
Kamakize's vote seems opportunistic little reasoning. But legitimate reasoning. Neutral to me for the moment. The opportunistic part may just be because I'm feeling attacked right now he is only the third vote on me. So scum voting opportunistically this early seems unlikely, but then again. I could just be wrong.
Finally addressing Terry. Terry is either purposefully misrepresenting me, is ESL, or is tunneling so hard that they are construing everything as bad as they can. However. Despite calling me a wolf and there being a wagon forming on me has yet to jump over. This seems highly questionable to me. But it could be other circumstances as well.
What are your thoughts on these four specifically Terry?
Grape I talked about above, solid town.
Kazin behaviorally is nothing special, but he towntelled in an extremely convincing manner, such that he is lock town to me.
Kamikaze has said a lot of what I agree with. I think this makes him much more likely to be town.
Terry is a firecracker, and I don’t have a read on him one way or another. If you told me that scum was absolutely among those pushing you, he’d be my pick just because I’m town reading the others, but that’s not due to anything he’s done. He’s one I’ll need to peruse later when I post a read wall, because reading him on emotion and outburst (which is what I’d like to do) isn’t actually helpful.
I feel hurt that I, the carpenter of said figurehead, don’t get a mention in the paragon section of toms story, but I suppose it’s to be expected.
Still just watching for the teeth. But you do appear to be getting sleeker. Less threatening. More dolphiny.
But even then it's hard to tell a dolphin from a shark.
I feel hurt that I, the carpenter of said figurehead, don’t get a mention in the paragon section of toms story, but I suppose it’s to be expected.
Still just watching for the teeth. But you do appear to be getting sleeker. Less threatening. More dolphiny.
But even then it's hard to tell a dolphin from a shark.
Kazin votes me for circular logic, and states other "Weird things" meanwhile you basically OMGUS vote Nancy. Its amazing to me that when you do it, then it is good, when I do it then it is bad.
@Grape I've never seen a neutral claim before. After it sat with me and saw more posts I was ok with the claim. At least for the moment.
How am I supposed to OMGUS someone that never voted me or let alone even mentioned my name?
Notice the word basically.
Oh you mean, like something completely and totally not accurate? My bad... Basically.
An OMGUS vote is due to the person saying that there is bad reasoning being used and voting that way. Mostly its a "You're bad" post. I didn't make that claim at all, I pointed out that what was being used against me was circular logic. IE I was defensive because I was defensive. Etc. First off in no way was that an OMGUS. But by your definition I guess that is.
If I am going to take your definition to work with then pointing out the flaws in one case is an OMGUS vote. Which is exactly what you did with Nancy or attempted to do. I disagree on the reasoning and logic used, but what ever for this part of the argument. The only difference is I voted for someone who made a case on me and you voted for someone who made a case on someone else. So BASICALLY. They are the same thing.
Can you please stop trolling me or look up the definitions of the words if you are ESL? Thank you.
Do you see an Icon for a good old fashion West World Maze as my Avatar or is it Anime? That should give you a hint about my mastery of the English language. Again, you are insulting me as subtly as you think you are doing it, you're still doing it and making a conscious effort to do it. If you want to have a pissing match, I'll win, but I don't think that's best for town. I've held off on voting you because I'm still trying to figure out your alignment. I don't know the type of player you are, so you could be stubborn (see my fight with Cyan in Mistborn), you could be new town to this meta (See my fight with Last Whisper Day 1 of Zero Escape), or you could be classic scum. I still think Nancy is scum and I kind of want to see that head roll.
For the official record: Since I started playing around 15 years ago, OMGUS was a term for someone who votes the person that just pressured them or voted them. These "OMGUS" usually have very weak reasoning, feel forced and overly defensive, which are signs of the new to moderately experienced scum players.
How am I supposed to OMGUS someone that never voted me or let alone even mentioned my name?
Notice the word basically.
Oh you mean, like something completely and totally not accurate? My bad... Basically.
An OMGUS vote is due to the person saying that there is bad reasoning being used and voting that way. Mostly its a "You're bad" post. I didn't make that claim at all, I pointed out that what was being used against me was circular logic. IE I was defensive because I was defensive. Etc. First off in no way was that an OMGUS. But by your definition I guess that is.
If I am going to take your definition to work with then pointing out the flaws in one case is an OMGUS vote. Which is exactly what you did with Nancy or attempted to do. I disagree on the reasoning and logic used, but what ever for this part of the argument. The only difference is I voted for someone who made a case on me and you voted for someone who made a case on someone else. So BASICALLY. They are the same thing.
Can you please stop trolling me or look up the definitions of the words if you are ESL? Thank you.
Do you see an Icon for a good old fashion West World Maze as my Avatar or is it Anime? That should give you a hint about my mastery of the English language. Again, you are insulting me as subtly as you think you are doing it, you're still doing it and making a conscious effort to do it. If you want to have a pissing match, I'll win, but I don't think that's best for town. I've held off on voting you because I'm still trying to figure out your alignment. I don't know the type of player you are, so you could be stubborn (see my fight with Cyan in Mistborn), you could be new town to this meta (See my fight with Last Whisper Day 1 of Zero Escape), or you could be classic scum. I still think Nancy is scum and I kind of want to see that head roll.
For the official record: Since I started playing around 15 years ago, OMGUS was a term for someone who votes the person that just pressured them or voted them. These "OMGUS" usually have very weak reasoning, feel forced and overly defensive, which are signs of the new to moderately experienced scum players.
So are you misrepresenting me on purpose or just trolling me with things like ignoring the use of the word basically.
You spent a whole paragraph on your ego. And about zero on your logic or on that.
Im gonna briefly comment on the az claim.
Odd play.
He's a neutral.. hoping there isn't another nuetral in the game?
He would ultimatley have to target and be the hammer for 3 days.
Claiming this outright is weird, seeing as he can at least get 2 souls toDay/Night and not have claimed til at least tomorrow.
So why be open about it from the beginning?
If non-killig abilities dont effect him at 2, scum would want him to die night one, seeing as their abilities (they have them) would have no effect on him.
Psst, by the way, scum team, don't sweat it. You can totally not kill me and maybe count on my vote at the end of the game to seal the deal. Except for the scenario where I decide to epicly troll you for the lolz. But that's totally not going to happen. Pirate's honor. Totally trustworthy dude, right here. <---
'Sup town. Nothing to see here. Good to be among fellow medium-sized creatures and such.
See, this is how you know I'm actually a neutral survivor. Because this is the kind of next-level play against my own win con you can only expect from Azrael when he's playing against his own alignment, claiming scum, and the like. Because, I only do that under one alignment. Never faked. Never a riddle.
Also I never gambit, so nothing to fear there. Kami's totally exaggerating those risks.
*sigh* Is it bad that in order to feel alive as a neutral survivor, I have to intentionally flirt with death? Yeah, that's probably bad. Why do we still have these roles?
I do not like this post. It sounds like he is... nervous.
If survival wins, you're not playing against your wincon to help us. So are you saying survival isn't a wincon? Or that you're going to ignore that wincon entirely, and play poorly if survival is your only viable wincon? I don't believe that you would actually do that - and if you did try, I think you'd just get modkilled.
Oh, I'm totally not playing to my lame win condition. Or at least, I'm trying not to, really really hard. Because survival is 1) Boring and 2) Almost completely dependent on others' actions. But I'm also a competitive person. But I'm also a person who prefers to compete against others than to compete towards arbitrary role goals. So...yeah. Feeling a little torn, a little miffed, hard to excuse actually implementing good play because my role punishes me for good play.
We could lynch Azreal, but I think there is no problem letting him live for the time being.
@Azreal I do have on question for you though. When do you "Steal the soul" of your victim.
At night and upon hammer? Or is this an order of operations question that I have to actually PM the mod about and expend effort upon? Because that sounds annoying.
With that answer it does become an order of operations question. Sorry.
Mostly I want to know when it resolves. Before or after kills in the night.
This guy is definatley planning on doing something to az toNight.
I don't believe your 10 souls claim. In a game this size it would take until night 5 to get all the souls assuming you hammered every day. You might also be getting screwed out of your win con if people with souls die before you can steal them.
Even if all the bull***** was true, survivors are by definition anti-town.
I like his logic.
Lets see.
Assuming 1 person dies each day and one per night. 13 people without az
A) There's a reason I'm not trying for it
B) Feel free to join me in pelting vegetables at Iso post-game
C) So give me zero souls, and just stir up enough lynch interest that the mafia think they shouldn't bother night-killing me, and we're good. I see you've already beat to the punch on C. Good, good. *steeples fingers*
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Didn’t get the reaction from Dawning I was hoping for, but yeh, I’m not convinced dawning is scum.
I thought that maybe they reasoned out that with the number of scum they have, 1 anti-town neutral would be the max, but it seems it was just awkward wording and nothing more.
And I do agree with the Rodemy observations.
unvote
On to Nobue. She’s the whole reason I refrained from posting for a while. It’s hard to answer to an aggressive post without being aggressive myself.
I’ll cut the post into pieces to answer it.
I don't understand how you could say I don't have an opinion. I made it pretty clear I didn't want to lynch.
I’m talking about #31. Apart from the jester thing, that’s the first time you talk about him. There’s really no opinion at all in that post. Your opinion only formed after others posted theirs. Felt to me like you were testing the waters to see whether or not you should pursue him.
Also why would I vote Azreal for Kamakizes post? Do you even understand what was going on there or are you as clueless as they are?
Because the accusation you made is that Kami is Azrael’s buddy. If you want to lynch someone for being a buddy, the only town!way to approach that is to lynch the other first and only if they flip scum, you go for the “buddy”.
Don't refer to me as he. Thanks!
Sorry, didn’t know.
Didn't you lead a wagon that got me lynched within 8 posts before.
Ongoing game! Don’t talk about that pls.
Why do you dislike me claiming Azreal isn't scum hunting. When he isn't. He has been defending himself and not spending much time looking for wolves.
He’s analyzing the reasoning of the people talking about him and looking for alignment in that. It’s one of the most effective ways of hunting.
Did you actually read what Az said, because calling all that defense is a misrepresentation.
Can you show where you did any scumhunting? All I’ve seen you do is talk about Azrael, defend yourself against me / Terry / Kazin / Grape and throw out a townread or two.
All in all I've decided I don't understand how you can post like this. Your reasoning for Shadow being ok makes no sense when you call others scum for going for Azreal immediately. Its like you woke up made up a bunch of *****. Forced it into reads and said this seems good. I would call you scum for this EXCEPT I've seen you do this as town already.
I’m not gonna waste words answering this part, but again, ongoing game.
@Rodemy: I don’t get the vote-unvote progression in that post of yours. What does Nobue’s post tell you that makes you unvote Shadow?
Many eyes turned upon nobue, but I didn't understand why. The mouths attached to those eyes have said now, but this nobue seems no different from before, with the same people leading the charge.
Before I was evil and happy to let it happen while throwing platitudes at others, but this time... well...
She cast a shadow on the azrael smudge, for not hunting. Which was strange, for icebergs do not hunt. And because I thought she had perched to do the same sort of hunting that he was doing.
However, when eyes were upon her she stood her ground. Very much like I remember.
And within the gaze of barnacleterry I think I can see her clearly, even if I must squint.
Looking at the past inclines me to look elsewhere.
Sorry Nobue, not ongoing game. I’m mixing up games :/
tom might be right tho... @tom: do you believe pointing at Azrael for not scumhunting and only defending while Az was looking for scum on his own wagon is ok, especially with nobue doing it herself now?
I’m somewhat inclined to believe nobue’s defensiveness is NAI, but the wagon as it stands is literally my top 4 town reads
Yeh I'm not sure either :/
Town can vote town you know...
But there's some weird things outside of the defensiveness: the accusation on Az + the vote on Kazin / calling him scum again in response to you after Kazin's town!derp.
I don't believe your 10 souls claim. In a game this size it would take until night 5 to get all the souls assuming you hammered every day. You might also be getting screwed out of your win con if people with souls die before you can steal them.
Even if all the bull***** was true, survivors are by definition anti-town.
The times where I've seen it happen they claimed they will help the town, like Az is doing, and ended lynching town in MyLo cause they felt the scum team played better than the town. There is no accountability. Also the longer we wait the harder to lynch Az will be.
There's also the fact that he claimed another win con. It almost feels like the survivor claim is tacked on to make it seem less bad than it is.
And on top of this I'm really biased against survivors as every time I drew the role I ended up being lynched because I'd help scum in the end. I really don't want to see you win.
First, you're not wolf hunting. You made a specific attack for how a wolves operate, but ignored another player doing that. It was already mentioned but there was an attack made on me for "weird" behavior.
Didn't read it/don't recall it. Might have written it off as RVS garbage.
Quote from Nobue Itoh »
The other thing is just saying that your role can't work as claimed. You are basically guaranteed to gain two souls.
1. Hammering wouldn't be a big deal you could easily sneak this.
2. Your night ability has virtually no counter play.
I think you're intentionally acting daft and dislike this. But add that to the fact that you are not hunting. I'm starting to fully doubt your claim.
I'm not sure how someone "sneaks" a hammer on public vote counts. If you're arguing I could theoretically out-hammer the town, sure, there's that possibility. And I'm equally sure trying that would never result in my being punitively lynched in short order...not a real fear.
Night ability has counter-play based upon whatever powered roles Iso saw fit to include, plus the fact that this 14-player game is not going to be 10 nights long, I'd expect. The true "counterplay" would have to come in from me racing to be the hammer vote on every single lynch, which as we covered, would have been a stup-tacularly dumb idea for me on ten thousand different levels.
How is this helping town? You've only commented on people talking about you. You're throwing OMGUS on almost everyone who votes you.
As long as Azrael is alive most discussion will be about him which is not very productive.
Everyone needs to learn some mafia theory is they think leaving the claimed neutral with a win-con that makes everyone lose is a good idea.
Question is should we lynch Azreal today?
If no lets move on. If yes, then make a case.
Azreal's pedigree should not matter much at all. Seems way too in the weeds of an argument to me.
Terry seems better. But I'll keep an eye on them.
Shadow seems to be fearmongering quite a bit. Which is worrisome, but also seems to be very town. Need more posts from others to determine more.
We aren't lynching Az today. Move on. In fact, I'd like Az to lead today's Lynch. Let's hear it Az.
We are lynching Az today. Every day we prolong his life is going to cost us.
Within that spoilerful of bird noises, I see nothing that looks like an honest assessment of the threat posed by the iceberg.
I see doubt that the iceberg exists, which is immediately dropped in favor of bias against icebergs and prevailing wisdom on dealing with icebergs. He even adds some really shallow (lol) opinions on how the iceberg is floating, and cites early conversation about it as a reason to deal with it immediately.
Perhaps vezoks predisposition against the icebergs of the world is real, and can explain parts of this. But the overall profile of someone that saw the smudge on the horizon and would rather steer straight towards it than look for other paths is one I would expect from those that whisper of mutiny in the night.
@tom: do you believe pointing at Azrael for not scumhunting and only defending while Az was looking for scum on his own wagon is ok, especially with nobue doing it herself now?
it is strange to be sure, but not necessarily sinister. When you are free as a bird you need not be reasonable or avoid hypocrisy.
@tom: do you believe pointing at Azrael for not scumhunting and only defending while Az was looking for scum on his own wagon is ok, especially with nobue doing it herself now?
it is strange to be sure, but not necessarily sinister. When you are free as a bird you need not be reasonable or avoid hypocrisy.
I’m somewhat inclined to believe nobue’s defensiveness is NAI, but the wagon as it stands is literally my top 4 town reads
Yeh I'm not sure either :/
Town can vote town you know...
But there's some weird things outside of the defensiveness: the accusation on Az + the vote on Kazin / calling him scum again in response to you after Kazin's town!derp.
Yeah, which is why I’m not going to assume anything from it specifically.
I think I’m okay with pressure on Nobue, but it’s not a lead I’m interested in pursuing.
@Nobue I think you're missing my point. You thought the claim was anti-town enough that you assumed it must be someone trying to get lynched. But when you realized it couldn't be a jester you're happy to leave it alive. So yeah that doesn't quite add up to me. You must have thought the role was heavily anti town to have your instinct be to think it was someone trying to get lynched.
@Shadow I'm actually really confused by the town reads I'm getting. I don't feel like I've done much this game. Agree with KamiArchon. Been impressed by him so far. Rhand I'm not as high on as you but he's been good. Just not confident that I can read him. Think he's been a positive overall. Similar to tom for me actually. Have them in a similar space right now.
For reference, this is why I started this line of questions: I figured if he was scum this would have been a potential slip, and if he was town the details would line up as to why he’d make assumptions about Night chat. What do you think of Kazin’s town tell, do you think as scum he’d actually be able to pull off not believing scum know who their buddies are?
Why don’t you like 173? I get that you don’t trust Az, but unless you think Az is scum and Archmage is his partner, I don’t see a scum motive for that line. I don’t, in fact day chat for this game would not surprise me (Iso’s previous game had day chat, as did the last normal to run here), but as pointed out above, Kazin believed it and I wanted to figure out why. There is meat to your posts, you’re pursuing a line of thought, and one of the big things that pinged town to me is your treatment of your read on Dawning. You could have easily scum read her but you dug into the why of the matter and didn’t.
@Vezo: Did you pull scum two games in a row?
You are ridiculous.
Kazin votes me for circular logic, and states other "Weird things" meanwhile you basically OMGUS vote Nancy. Its amazing to me that when you do it, then it is good, when I do it then it is bad.
@Grape I've never seen a neutral claim before. After it sat with me and saw more posts I was ok with the claim. At least for the moment.
Notice the word basically.
Getting worse and worse. I don't see these posts coming from a scumhunting mindset. I do see them coming from a "stay alive" mindset.
vote Nobue_Itoh
I somehow missed the way Kazin went about the chat thing. I see now how that makes him town, but I'm not entirely convinced. If this game has daychat, he might have been coached into it, or he came up with this "gambit". He's now not my second scum read.
#173 is just another reason. AE simply restated the same thing terry said, while not commenting on anything else that happened. This on top of his previous posts which where not really informative.
I took some issue (mostly that I don't like when people tell what's not going to happen) with it when terry said, but his overall mindset and posting style has been pretty town in my view.
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Don't talk about ongoing games
My read on Kazin was misguided as I didn't understand the interaction between him and shadow.
I stand by my comment of linking Nancy, as I like both his/her posting style and the questions she was asking. I'm disappointed that they've been absent from the game since then.
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I'd rather not be mislynched again!
So you're right.
An OMGUS vote is due to the person saying that there is bad reasoning being used and voting that way. Mostly its a "You're bad" post. I didn't make that claim at all, I pointed out that what was being used against me was circular logic. IE I was defensive because I was defensive. Etc. First off in no way was that an OMGUS. But by your definition I guess that is.
If I am going to take your definition to work with then pointing out the flaws in one case is an OMGUS vote. Which is exactly what you did with Nancy or attempted to do. I disagree on the reasoning and logic used, but what ever for this part of the argument. The only difference is I voted for someone who made a case on me and you voted for someone who made a case on someone else. So BASICALLY. They are the same thing.
Can you please stop trolling me or look up the definitions of the words if you are ESL? Thank you.
Why post at all then?
Ok.
Grape seems to be voting me over the Azreal thread of ideas. I think Grapes thought behind it seems town to me. He is looking for scum based on interactions with neutrals. At least that is how I see the comments. This seems like a decent way to approach the game.
Kazin seems to have the most issues to me. He votes me because of circular logic then reaffirms his vote after I point out how bad it is. Maybe this is town tunneling. But more likely it is scum looking for a miss lynch.
Kamakize's vote seems opportunistic little reasoning. But legitimate reasoning. Neutral to me for the moment. The opportunistic part may just be because I'm feeling attacked right now he is only the third vote on me. So scum voting opportunistically this early seems unlikely, but then again. I could just be wrong.
Finally addressing Terry. Terry is either purposefully misrepresenting me, is ESL, or is tunneling so hard that they are construing everything as bad as they can. However. Despite calling me a wolf and there being a wagon forming on me has yet to jump over. This seems highly questionable to me. But it could be other circumstances as well.
What are your thoughts on these four specifically Terry?
But is it armor to keep it safe, or are they damaging the wood beneath?
Looks more like armor right now, but I'll be watching the wood
Could you break character or explain in better detail why?
Here, it mostly means voting someone that's pushing you.
Regardless, it's among the most poorly used tells in existence. In both directions.
Town clearing is useful, and I understand what you are saying but you don't seem to be saying much.
Currently more interested in protecting the ship.
We have kazin, the figurehead, cutting through the air. Sea life in grape and rhand guiding us through the water. This grouping fills me with warmth.
The rest is slight expectations of help or harm, but not yet illuminated.
Kazin behaviorally is nothing special, but he towntelled in an extremely convincing manner, such that he is lock town to me.
Kamikaze has said a lot of what I agree with. I think this makes him much more likely to be town.
Terry is a firecracker, and I don’t have a read on him one way or another. If you told me that scum was absolutely among those pushing you, he’d be my pick just because I’m town reading the others, but that’s not due to anything he’s done. He’s one I’ll need to peruse later when I post a read wall, because reading him on emotion and outburst (which is what I’d like to do) isn’t actually helpful.
But even then it's hard to tell a dolphin from a shark.
For the official record: Since I started playing around 15 years ago, OMGUS was a term for someone who votes the person that just pressured them or voted them. These "OMGUS" usually have very weak reasoning, feel forced and overly defensive, which are signs of the new to moderately experienced scum players.
So are you misrepresenting me on purpose or just trolling me with things like ignoring the use of the word basically.
You spent a whole paragraph on your ego. And about zero on your logic or on that.
Im gonna briefly comment on the az claim.
Odd play.
He's a neutral.. hoping there isn't another nuetral in the game?
He would ultimatley have to target and be the hammer for 3 days.
Claiming this outright is weird, seeing as he can at least get 2 souls toDay/Night and not have claimed til at least tomorrow.
So why be open about it from the beginning?
If non-killig abilities dont effect him at 2, scum would want him to die night one, seeing as their abilities (they have them) would have no effect on him.
This is my trouble with it.
vote shadow
Did he tell you he was gonna do that in the scum chat?
I don't know how i feel about the pull back of his question about jesters.
I do not like this post. It sounds like he is... nervous.
This guy is definatley planning on doing something to az toNight.
Ah, he is also defensive as fuuuuck.
unvote
Can you explain this read. Why is he town?
I like his logic.
Lets see.
Assuming 1 person dies each day and one per night. 13 people without az
(D1)13p. Hammer 1 soul (lynch)
(N1)12p. Steal 2 souls(nightkill)
(D2)11p. Hammer 3 (lynch)
(N2)10p. Steal 4 (nightkill)
(D3)9p. Hammer 5 (lynch)
(N3)8. Steal 6
(D4)7 hammer 7
(N4)6 steal 8
(D4)5p hammer 9
Lets say we have 3 scum and 1 nuet.
That would be game d4 if we don't kill any scum.
Even 2 scum and 1 nuet. You could never make it to 10 souls..
I call some bull***** on numbers.
At this point, i need to sleep because work. God you guys talk a lot.
Im leaving my vote off for now. Still on phone and no way of making notes until i get to my laptop on sunday.
But guhhhhhhhh. This game is gonna suck for scumhunting.
B) Feel free to join me in pelting vegetables at Iso post-game
C) So give me zero souls, and just stir up enough lynch interest that the mafia think they shouldn't bother night-killing me, and we're good. I see you've already beat to the punch on C. Good, good. *steeples fingers*
Azrael (1): vezokpiraka
vezokpiraka (1): tomsloger
Grapefruit21 (1): Nancy Drew 39
Rodemy (2): dawningbluesky, Archmage Eternal
Nancy Drew 39 (1): TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
dawningbluesky (1): Rhand
Nobue_Itoh (3): Grapefruit21, Kazin Drake, KamikazeArchon
Kazin Drake (1): Nobue_Itoh
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
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I thought that maybe they reasoned out that with the number of scum they have, 1 anti-town neutral would be the max, but it seems it was just awkward wording and nothing more.
And I do agree with the Rodemy observations.
unvote
On to Nobue. She’s the whole reason I refrained from posting for a while. It’s hard to answer to an aggressive post without being aggressive myself.
I’ll cut the post into pieces to answer it.
I’m talking about #31. Apart from the jester thing, that’s the first time you talk about him. There’s really no opinion at all in that post. Your opinion only formed after others posted theirs. Felt to me like you were testing the waters to see whether or not you should pursue him.
Because the accusation you made is that Kami is Azrael’s buddy. If you want to lynch someone for being a buddy, the only town!way to approach that is to lynch the other first and only if they flip scum, you go for the “buddy”.
Sorry, didn’t know.
Ongoing game! Don’t talk about that pls.
He’s analyzing the reasoning of the people talking about him and looking for alignment in that. It’s one of the most effective ways of hunting.
Did you actually read what Az said, because calling all that defense is a misrepresentation.
Can you show where you did any scumhunting? All I’ve seen you do is talk about Azrael, defend yourself against me / Terry / Kazin / Grape and throw out a townread or two.
I’m not gonna waste words answering this part, but again, ongoing game.
@Rodemy: I don’t get the vote-unvote progression in that post of yours. What does Nobue’s post tell you that makes you unvote Shadow?
Willing to lynch now: Nobue / Vezok / Rodemy
vote: Nobue
Before I was evil and happy to let it happen while throwing platitudes at others, but this time... well...
She cast a shadow on the azrael smudge, for not hunting. Which was strange, for icebergs do not hunt. And because I thought she had perched to do the same sort of hunting that he was doing.
However, when eyes were upon her she stood her ground. Very much like I remember.
And within the gaze of barnacleterry I think I can see her clearly, even if I must squint.
Looking at the past inclines me to look elsewhere.
tom might be right tho... @tom: do you believe pointing at Azrael for not scumhunting and only defending while Az was looking for scum on his own wagon is ok, especially with nobue doing it herself now?
He figured out tom was doing a pr within 2 posts and what it was about.
Idk, seems odd to me.
Nobue seems lile he was gonna do something to azreal tonight. Im just not sure if it's good or bad.
The inquiry could be a way to find out if thr scum could kill him before he gets enough souls to be unkillable/ immune to non kill abilities.
But there isnt enough info for a certain answer.
I unvoted because I havent read everything yet
Yeh I'm not sure either :/
Town can vote town you know...
But there's some weird things outside of the defensiveness: the accusation on Az + the vote on Kazin / calling him scum again in response to you after Kazin's town!derp.
I see doubt that the iceberg exists, which is immediately dropped in favor of bias against icebergs and prevailing wisdom on dealing with icebergs. He even adds some really shallow (lol) opinions on how the iceberg is floating, and cites early conversation about it as a reason to deal with it immediately.
Perhaps vezoks predisposition against the icebergs of the world is real, and can explain parts of this. But the overall profile of someone that saw the smudge on the horizon and would rather steer straight towards it than look for other paths is one I would expect from those that whisper of mutiny in the night.
And the Kazin vote?
I think I’m okay with pressure on Nobue, but it’s not a lead I’m interested in pursuing.