Ok. So, I'm going to ruin Iso's wonderful rule by instantly full-claiming.
I'm the flying dutchman. I am currently a neutral survivor, but I also have the capacity to win the game and cause everyone else to lose. I do this by gaining souls.
I gain souls in two ways. One, I can target a player and steal that player's soul, which will not materially affect them in any fashion, except that they will be notified that I did this. Two, by being the hammer vote on a lynch.
I have three tiers of abilities. The first is that non-killing abilities will not affect me, at 2 souls. The second is that I can send a message with 250 character limit - attempts to identify myself within said message will be censored out, at 4 souls. The third is by being bulletproof, at 6 souls.
At 10 souls, I win the game and everyone else loses. It would be fantastic for you guys to put me up to six souls, at which point I will cease collecting souls by night or by hammering, on pain of you guys killing me.
In return for putting me up to six souls to help my not die, I will commence wrecking the scum team and reducing them to flotsam.
Hopefully no hitmen with me on their list this game, or I'm sunk.
Do we have an accord?
Ummm, you had me up until the part where you said I lose if you win.
All I've got is that KamikazeArchon makes a good first impression. Town vibes for the breakdown of how to handle Az and agree on no hammers for Az.
True but your comment seems to veer a bit towards the fluffy side? For all I know; you and Az could both be scum and you're attempting to pocket Kami with this.
@Nobue I believe Jesters are considered bastard here. You seem to be implying that you are one (or maybe that Az is one, I"m not really sure what you're getting at), but bringing it up is a weird look.
How is he "implying" that he is "one? Why is that a "weird look"?
As the wincon of jesters is always to suicide; this seems to be a perfectly reasonable question from Nobue. It seems pretty clear to me that they were wondering if Az might be attempting to further their wincon by trying to get hammered.
@Az I got the opposite impression on 25. I think it's a town+ suggestion to try and force your hand like that. Don't see a scum claim at all.
Likely true. Could be a prescient townie observation or an attempt to distance from their possible scumbuddy?
I dunno; this post doesn't read right to me; so . . .
The game I was talking about is Dr Polyopticon, and I think Az’s role is loosely based on that one.
Iso needed to target 5 players at Night there (no hammer clause) in a 12 player game.
10 here seems fair, but it might be 7 or 8 for all we know. I don’t trust the numbers he gives us.
Umm because it was clearly an RVS vote by Grape and Nancy Drew is already pushing a case on him for it. Too aggressive. Grape is one of my favorite players in the whole world, but that doesn't mean for a second that if I thought he was scum that I wouldn't hang him and stone him.
Umm because it was clearly an RVS vote by Grape and Nancy Drew is already pushing a case on him for it. Too aggressive. Grape is one of my favorite players in the whole world, but that doesn't mean for a second that if I thought he was scum that I wouldn't hang him and stone him.
This is nonsensical
Can you try explaining your reasoning for voting one instead of using some dumb logic?
How is saying that he didn't like the post too aggressive and voting for them when you did the exact same thing.
I'm at work and haven't read closely but <3 you too terry. Hopefully I don't have to lynch you this game.
We're wasting time going back and forth on Az. His role isn't going anywhere and arguing about whether or not we want to lynch him isn't going to find scum. Going to take a look at Nancy, Kazin, and Terry after work.
Azreal has made many good points and overall I'm okish with letting him live for the moment.
BUT!
His role as claimed is false.
Azreal's claimed role wins as soon as day 5.
Azreal hammering would not be suspect to players if he didn't announce it. His soul ability part also makes little to no sense. The game of this part should be obvious. Azreal has the chance to pick up extra souls BUT he has to correctly figure out who the NK target is and not target them. This makes Azreal dangerous. But I don't think we need to lynch him immediately.
Also Azreal made a comment about something scum did but didn't pick up on a possible mafia doing it. And it has been called out in the thread already. So I'll give him a chance to rectify this.
There’s something that bugs me with Aztael’s claim. He says he gains souls by hammering (which kills a person) and by just targeting them at Night.
Flavor-wise that doesn’t really make sense. It would make way more sense if the one he targets at Night dies too.
@Azrael: would we know when our soul is stolen?
What happens if you hammer someone whose soul you stole before?
The role is pretty close to one Iso once rolled when he was a neutral violin. I don’t think Azrael was in that game, so I think there is at least some truth to the claim. I’ll have a look if I can find that game and see how that role worked.
Yeah, anyone who's targeted should receive a notification.
The game I was talking about is Dr Polyopticon, and I think Az’s role is loosely based on that one.
Iso needed to target 5 players at Night there (no hammer clause) in a 12 player game.
10 here seems fair, but it might be 7 or 8 for all we know. I don’t trust the numbers he gives us.
Yeah...I'm not sure Iso thought out the alt-win condition part of the role very carefully. Unless there's something I'm missing, in a fourteen player game, I can only fail to collect souls from four people before it becomes completely possible. If it were less, it would be more feasible and better designed from that perspective, but also not great from a "everyone should have fun" perspective. Instead it's just this kind of weird corner case thing that ought never to happen.
First, you're not wolf hunting. You made a specific attack for how a wolves operate, but ignored another player doing that. It was already mentioned but there was an attack made on me for "weird" behavior.
The other thing is just saying that your role can't work as claimed. You are basically guaranteed to gain two souls.
1. Hammering wouldn't be a big deal you could easily sneak this.
2. Your night ability has virtually no counter play.
I think you're intentionally acting daft and dislike this. But add that to the fact that you are not hunting. I'm starting to fully doubt your claim.
I don't understand how your question even needs answering.
I had a question I wanted answered. Telling Azreal or anyone why it mattered would have ruined what I was hunting for. At this point I've clearly posted why it mattered and explained it.
I don't feel like holding your hand anymore than that.
First, you're not wolf hunting. You made a specific attack for how a wolves operate, but ignored another player doing that. It was already mentioned but there was an attack made on me for "weird" behavior.
Didn't read it/don't recall it. Might have written it off as RVS garbage.
Quote from Nobue Itoh »
The other thing is just saying that your role can't work as claimed. You are basically guaranteed to gain two souls.
1. Hammering wouldn't be a big deal you could easily sneak this.
2. Your night ability has virtually no counter play.
I think you're intentionally acting daft and dislike this. But add that to the fact that you are not hunting. I'm starting to fully doubt your claim.
I'm not sure how someone "sneaks" a hammer on public vote counts. If you're arguing I could theoretically out-hammer the town, sure, there's that possibility. And I'm equally sure trying that would never result in my being punitively lynched in short order...not a real fear.
Night ability has counter-play based upon whatever powered roles Iso saw fit to include, plus the fact that this 14-player game is not going to be 10 nights long, I'd expect. The true "counterplay" would have to come in from me racing to be the hammer vote on every single lynch, which as we covered, would have been a stup-tacularly dumb idea for me on ten thousand different levels.
@Nobue so just because I'm daft and still confused you were definitely implying Az was a jester correct?
So given that you thought he was trying to get himself lynched I'd assume you wouldn't be comfortable leaving his role alive, but you said you were. Why? Your stated a "few good points" isn't really enough for going from thinking a claim was anti town enough to assume jester to wanting to leave him alive.
@Nancy Drew your point on survivors being defacto anti town makes sense. I was definitely thinking in non defacto terms. That a lack of pro town doesn't equate to anti-town. As for Nobue I don't know if he's scummy for thinking of Jesters, I just thought it was weird to bring up. But that's probably due to lack of exposure to jesters and thinking they basically don't exist because I mostly play here where they don't exist.
What do you make of people (Vezok stuck in my mind but someone else seemed to like it too, maybe Nobue?) town reading you for your interaction with me? What do you make of Terry scum reading you for it? (I'm inclined to like Terry for it and don't have strong feelings about Vezok liking it)
Speaking of Terry he's done less than I thought but I like him poking Nancy for making a largely associative scum read. It seems a bit early to be world building. Not scum reading Nancy, but agree that the Az/Me buddy read feels too much.
The azrael-shaped smudge on the horizon wasn't clouds after all but an iceberg. A looming threat that in theory should be easy to avoid when noticed this early. But the actual threat makes no sense. How much was below the surface here?
Vezok bird released the most raucous squawk of all, or rather multiple disharmonious squawks that sounded right individually but together were a cacophony. They didn't seem to come from the same bird, suggesting they weren't natural. unvote, vote vezokpiraka
Nancy and grape are dolphins playing in the wake of the ship. Playfully jumping out of the water and looking at the birds, the smudge, each other. They added a brightness to the journey.
Rhand an ancient sea turtle, swimming alongside the proud ship. Examining why the creator put the iceberg there in the first place.
I love the way he's swimming
Nobue and kazin birds perched upon the masts, now concerned more with the ship than screaming at the smudge. A good start.
I don't understand how your question even needs answering.
I had a question I wanted answered. Telling Azreal or anyone why it mattered would have ruined what I was hunting for. At this point I've clearly posted why it mattered and explained it.
I don't feel like holding your hand anymore than that.
No, you haven't explained why it mattered. You specifically asked about the time relative to killing actions - why does that matter?
Assume I'm dumb if you have to. Spell it out.
I am currently liking tom. The post restriction was suspicious at first because it could have been used to coast along, but he's not doing that. He's actually giving opinions.
Full disclosure: I know Kazin IRL and convinced him to play Mafia on this site. Obviously the first thing I explained was the no-talking-about-games rule and we are not communicating about the game outside this thread, but I think it's worth mentioning that we have history.
I don't understand how your question even needs answering.
I had a question I wanted answered. Telling Azreal or anyone why it mattered would have ruined what I was hunting for. At this point I've clearly posted why it mattered and explained it.
I don't feel like holding your hand anymore than that.
No, you haven't explained why it mattered. You specifically asked about the time relative to killing actions - why does that matter?
Assume I'm dumb if you have to. Spell it out.
I am currently liking tom. The post restriction was suspicious at first because it could have been used to coast along, but he's not doing that. He's actually giving opinions.
Full disclosure: I know Kazin IRL and convinced him to play Mafia on this site. Obviously the first thing I explained was the no-talking-about-games rule and we are not communicating about the game outside this thread, but I think it's worth mentioning that we have history.
Quote from Archmage Eternal »
Also who's 1? Now don't answer that.
What does this mean?
I have explained why it mattered.
I can't help you any further. Either read more posts or drop it. I'm done with this though.
@Azrael
when claiming, was hitman your only concern? I think lyncher would be a threat as well. but hitmen and lynchers are neutrals, and you're already the neutral. no cause to worry.
I actually believe your claim, but I don’t care. I think you’re a dangerous player as any alignment, and since you’re actively anti town by design, I want you dead and gone.
I don't think Azrael is a dangerous player at all. he's quite easy to read imo
Just one:
- If we go two Days without lynching scum, and we're not at MyLo, lynch Az.
This is the "stick" to keep him in line, and guards us against Az being actualscum running a neutral gambit.
I also want your opinion on someone besides Az.
I think Tom is ever so slightly >rand town, and I (without actually looking back) kind of think Rod/Kazin/vezok could all be town as well since I’d like to think scum wouldn’t really get involved in Az enough to vote him already. Granted, I’ve seen scum with a hate complex towards neutrals before, so this is contingient on how things go moving forward.
Yes, a lot of this is based on Az’s claim, but that’s the biggest thing that’s happened.
wasting a lynch is in the scope of scum motivation. no reason to keep a neutral alive if you can use it to defocus from scumhunting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
a one legged seagull flying in haphazard geometric shapes. It takes much more than this to see where he is flying
what do you think of #58?
perhaps rodemy remains the crazy incontinent pigeon I've come to love (maternally)
Who knows what a pigeon would be doing so far out to sea, but I could see him falling in with the seagulls
a one legged seagull flying in haphazard geometric shapes. It takes much more than this to see where he is flying
what do you think of #58?
perhaps rodemy remains the crazy incontinent pigeon I've come to love (maternally)
Who knows what a pigeon would be doing so far out to sea, but I could see him falling in with the seagulls
then maybe you should take a closer look at what bird you're seeing.
@Azrael
when claiming, was hitman your only concern? I think lyncher would be a threat as well. but hitmen and lynchers are neutrals, and you're already the neutral. no cause to worry.
Ok. So, I'm going to ruin Iso's wonderful rule by instantly full-claiming.
I'm the flying dutchman. I am currently a neutral survivor, but I also have the capacity to win the game and cause everyone else to lose. I do this by gaining souls.
I gain souls in two ways. One, I can target a player and steal that player's soul, which will not materially affect them in any fashion, except that they will be notified that I did this. Two, by being the hammer vote on a lynch.
I have three tiers of abilities. The first is that non-killing abilities will not affect me, at 2 souls. The second is that I can send a message with 250 character limit - attempts to identify myself within said message will be censored out, at 4 souls. The third is by being bulletproof, at 6 souls.
At 10 souls, I win the game and everyone else loses. It would be fantastic for you guys to put me up to six souls, at which point I will cease collecting souls by night or by hammering, on pain of you guys killing me.
In return for putting me up to six souls to help my not die, I will commence wrecking the scum team and reducing them to flotsam.
Hopefully no hitmen with me on their list this game, or I'm sunk.
Do we have an accord?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
First, you're not wolf hunting. You made a specific attack for how a wolves operate, but ignored another player doing that. It was already mentioned but there was an attack made on me for "weird" behavior.
Didn't read it/don't recall it. Might have written it off as RVS garbage.
Quote from Nobue Itoh »
The other thing is just saying that your role can't work as claimed. You are basically guaranteed to gain two souls.
1. Hammering wouldn't be a big deal you could easily sneak this.
2. Your night ability has virtually no counter play.
I think you're intentionally acting daft and dislike this. But add that to the fact that you are not hunting. I'm starting to fully doubt your claim.
I'm not sure how someone "sneaks" a hammer on public vote counts. If you're arguing I could theoretically out-hammer the town, sure, there's that possibility. And I'm equally sure trying that would never result in my being punitively lynched in short order...not a real fear.
Night ability has counter-play based upon whatever powered roles Iso saw fit to include, plus the fact that this 14-player game is not going to be 10 nights long, I'd expect. The true "counterplay" would have to come in from me racing to be the hammer vote on every single lynch, which as we covered, would have been a stup-tacularly dumb idea for me on ten thousand different levels.
How is this helping town? You've only commented on people talking about you. You're throwing OMGUS on almost everyone who votes you.
As long as Azrael is alive most discussion will be about him which is not very productive.
Everyone needs to learn some mafia theory is they think leaving the claimed neutral with a win-con that makes everyone lose is a good idea.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
@Dawning: yes, you say Az is THE neutral, as if you know there can’t be more than one. Makes me think you know how many anti-town people there are including Azrael. Ergo, you’re one of them.
How is this helping town? You've only commented on people talking about you. You're throwing OMGUS on almost everyone who votes you.
As long as Azrael is alive most discussion will be about him which is not very productive.
Everyone needs to learn some mafia theory is they think leaving the claimed neutral with a win-con that makes everyone lose is a good idea.
I have some mafia theory for you: scum LOVE to hunt neutrals. It keeps them busy, makes them seem useful and they avoid having to accuse townies.
So Az is completely right with focusing on those that are talking about him. There's bound to be scum among them.
On that note, I think it’s time to look at who talks how to Az and what happens around that.
* Shadow: wants him to prove his ability. Ok. But then votes him, which is not ok. I understand his reasoning with Az’s player strength being dangerous in an anti-town role, so ok-ish.
* tom: comments without taking a stance. Meh. I do like how his reads evolve.
* Kami: doesn’t like the claim but doesn’t want to lynch Az fast either. Good.
* Nobue: tries too hard not to have a real opinion at first. Asks redundant question. Not good. Also makes a very bad vote on Kami related to Az. The vote in that case should’ve gone to Az, not Kami. Dislike very much how he accuses Az of not scumhunting.
* Grapefruit: I like his read on Kami. Talks to Az instead of about him. Good.
* vezok: votes Az immediately. Big chance of being scum.
* Nancy Drew: goes after Grape for bad reasons and way too hard. Ties Grape to Az. Might be scum.
* Kazin Drake: Not a huge fan of his vote on Az but not hating it completely either.
* Rodemy: very bad vote on Az and bad scumreads besides that.
* AE: looks townie to me.
* Terry: doesn’t get hung up with Az, focus on Nancy = good.
* Dawning: pending reaction on my other post. Won’t talk about him here.
Sidenote: In #42 and #43 Az posts reads that are complete opposites of my own. Weird. But in #60 he mostly does agree with me, which makes me think he is indeed playing town-sided.
Conclusions:
* Kami / Grape / AE / Terry likely town
* tom / shadow lean town
* Kazin null
* Nancy Drew lean scum
* Vezok / Rodemy / Nobue likely scum
@Nobue so just because I'm daft and still confused you were definitely implying Az was a jester correct?
So given that you thought he was trying to get himself lynched I'd assume you wouldn't be comfortable leaving his role alive, but you said you were. Why? Your stated a "few good points" isn't really enough for going from thinking a claim was anti town enough to assume jester to wanting to leave him alive.
What's up with this post? You can think someone wants to get lynched and still not want to lynch them. How did you make the assumption that both are mutually exclusive? I really don't see where this line of questioning is coming from or what you are trying to achieve with it. This feels like a loaded question where you are trying to push a narrative that is totally untrue.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
I actually believe your claim, but I don’t care. I think you’re a dangerous player as any alignment, and since you’re actively anti town by design, I want you dead and gone.
I don't think Azrael is a dangerous player at all. he's quite easy to read imo
From your one game reading him where he was actually town? Nah.
Just one:
- If we go two Days without lynching scum, and we're not at MyLo, lynch Az.
This is the "stick" to keep him in line, and guards us against Az being actualscum running a neutral gambit.
I also want your opinion on someone besides Az.
I think Tom is ever so slightly >rand town, and I (without actually looking back) kind of think Rod/Kazin/vezok could all be town as well since I’d like to think scum wouldn’t really get involved in Az enough to vote him already. Granted, I’ve seen scum with a hate complex towards neutrals before, so this is contingient on how things go moving forward.
Yes, a lot of this is based on Az’s claim, but that’s the biggest thing that’s happened.
wasting a lynch is in the scope of scum motivation. no reason to keep a neutral alive if you can use it to defocus from scumhunting.
My point at that time was that scum jumping into that mess super early seemed less likely to me. Though that’s more next level scum thought, so I’m not clearing them based on that.@Nobue: reading your back and forth with kamikaze, you say that revealing why you asked for Az’s order of operations would ruin the point you were getting at, but you never actually explained what you were “hunting for”. I am also curious specifically why this mattered to you, so could you please explain what you were hunting for, or quote yourself already explaining if you think you have, cause I can’t find it.
@Dawning: yes, you say Az is THE neutral, as if you know there can’t be more than one. Makes me think you know how many anti-town people there are including Azrael. Ergo, you’re one of them.
How would scum know the number of neutrals in the game though? I agree that the phrasing is really weird, but I don’t think it is a specific tell one way or another.
On that note, I think it’s time to look at who talks how to Az and what happens around that.
* Shadow: wants him to prove his ability. Ok. But then votes him, which is not ok. I understand his reasoning with Az’s player strength being dangerous in an anti-town role, so ok-ish.
* tom: comments without taking a stance. Meh. I do like how his reads evolve.
* Kami: doesn’t like the claim but doesn’t want to lynch Az fast either. Good.
* Nobue: tries too hard not to have a real opinion at first. Asks redundant question. Not good. Also makes a very bad vote on Kami related to Az. The vote in that case should’ve gone to Az, not Kami. Dislike very much how he accuses Az of not scumhunting.
* Grapefruit: I like his read on Kami. Talks to Az instead of about him. Good.
* vezok: votes Az immediately. Big chance of being scum.
* Nancy Drew: goes after Grape for bad reasons and way too hard. Ties Grape to Az. Might be scum.
* Kazin Drake: Not a huge fan of his vote on Az but not hating it completely either.
* Rodemy: very bad vote on Az and bad scumreads besides that.
* AE: looks townie to me.
* Terry: doesn’t get hung up with Az, focus on Nancy = good.
* Dawning: pending reaction on my other post. Won’t talk about him here.
Sidenote: In #42 and #43 Az posts reads that are complete opposites of my own. Weird. But in #60 he mostly does agree with me, which makes me think he is indeed playing town-sided.
Conclusions:
* Kami / Grape / AE / Terry likely town
* tom / shadow lean town
* Kazin null
* Nancy Drew lean scum
* Vezok / Rodemy / Nobue likely scum
I don't understand how you could say I don't have an opinion. I made it pretty clear I didn't want to lynch.
Also why would I vote Azreal for Kamakizes post? Do you even understand what was going on there or are you as clueless as they are?
Don't refer to me as he. Thanks!
Didn't you lead a wagon that got me lynched within 8 posts before.
Why do you dislike me claiming Azreal isn't scum hunting. When he isn't. He has been defending himself and not spending much time looking for wolves.
All in all I've decided I don't understand how you can post like this. Your reasoning for Shadow being ok makes no sense when you call others scum for going for Azreal immediately. Its like you woke up made up a bunch of *****. Forced it into reads and said this seems good. I would call you scum for this EXCEPT I've seen you do this as town already.
Umm because it was clearly an RVS vote by Grape and Nancy Drew is already pushing a case on him for it. Too aggressive. Grape is one of my favorite players in the whole world, but that doesn't mean for a second that if I thought he was scum that I wouldn't hang him and stone him.
This is nonsensical
Can you try explaining your reasoning for voting one instead of using some dumb logic?
How is saying that he didn't like the post too aggressive and voting for them when you did the exact same thing.
First... Pardon Me? Where do you get off calling my logic dumb, when you are clearly the one not understanding the simple logic of what I did?
I'll explain it to you one time and politely request you refrain from questioning my intelligence.
It was a fake case. She pushed Grapefruit for the simple fact that she RVSed Vezo and tried to force a case off of nothing. This is aggressive behavior built on a throne of eggshells. This aggressiveness is something scum do to start shading people and get Day 1 mislynches rolling. The difference between what I did and what Nancy did was that she built a case on the foundation of an RVS vote. I built a case on the foundation of a non-RVS vote.
I'm at work and haven't read closely but <3 you too terry. Hopefully I don't have to lynch you this game.
We're wasting time going back and forth on Az. His role isn't going anywhere and arguing about whether or not we want to lynch him isn't going to find scum. Going to take a look at Nancy, Kazin, and Terry after work.
We don't Lynch Az right now, we can revisit it tomorrow.
@Dawning: yes, you say Az is THE neutral, as if you know there can’t be more than one. Makes me think you know how many anti-town people there are including Azrael. Ergo, you’re one of them.
because more than 1 neutral in a playerbase this size isn't likely. ratio logistics
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Azrael
when claiming, was hitman your only concern? I think lyncher would be a threat as well. but hitmen and lynchers are neutrals, and you're already the neutral. no cause to worry.
I actually believe your claim, but I don’t care. I think you’re a dangerous player as any alignment, and since you’re actively anti town by design, I want you dead and gone.
I don't think Azrael is a dangerous player at all. he's quite easy to read imo
Just one:
- If we go two Days without lynching scum, and we're not at MyLo, lynch Az.
This is the "stick" to keep him in line, and guards us against Az being actualscum running a neutral gambit.
I also want your opinion on someone besides Az.
I think Tom is ever so slightly >rand town, and I (without actually looking back) kind of think Rod/Kazin/vezok could all be town as well since I’d like to think scum wouldn’t really get involved in Az enough to vote him already. Granted, I’ve seen scum with a hate complex towards neutrals before, so this is contingient on how things go moving forward.
Yes, a lot of this is based on Az’s claim, but that’s the biggest thing that’s happened.
wasting a lynch is in the scope of scum motivation. no reason to keep a neutral alive if you can use it to defocus from scumhunting.
RE your opinion of AZ... how in the world do you know if Az is a dangerous player or not? You played with him for one game and he was town.
Umm because it was clearly an RVS vote by Grape and Nancy Drew is already pushing a case on him for it. Too aggressive. Grape is one of my favorite players in the whole world, but that doesn't mean for a second that if I thought he was scum that I wouldn't hang him and stone him.
This is nonsensical
Can you try explaining your reasoning for voting one instead of using some dumb logic?
How is saying that he didn't like the post too aggressive and voting for them when you did the exact same thing.
First... Pardon Me? Where do you get off calling my logic dumb, when you are clearly the one not understanding the simple logic of what I did?
I'll explain it to you one time and politely request you refrain from questioning my intelligence.
It was a fake case. She pushed Grapefruit for the simple fact that she RVSed Vezo and tried to force a case off of nothing. This is aggressive behavior built on a throne of eggshells. This aggressiveness is something scum do to start shading people and get Day 1 mislynches rolling. The difference between what I did and what Nancy did was that she built a case on the foundation of an RVS vote. I built a case on the foundation of a non-RVS vote.
That is not what you said at all.
Fake was never once added in either of your first two posts. You can either fully explain your reasoning before or add it in later the fact that you added it in so late is suspect.
I didn't question your intelligence, but I am now. I said your logic was bad. Reading Compression is not a strong point eh?
Specifically after I asked to not be called he. But you managed to miss that so I guess you are either not reading everything or are just being a dick. Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Dear Nobue, recognizing that you probably get called he a decent amount (it’s the internet and people assume), I understand how it can be frustrating. But do not act aggressively or toxically in such a way as to incite flaming; I guarantee people here aren’t intentionally being jerks about your gender. First and foremost this is a game, where we as the players are respectfully trying to kill each other. There’s no need for anyone to resort to name calling. It’s unhelpful and causes game issues that make it difficult to uphold game integrity. If you legitimately believe someone has stepped out of line, report it to the mods, it’s why they’re here.
Dear Nobue, recognizing that you probably get called he a decent amount (it’s the internet and people assume), I understand how it can be frustrating. But do not act aggressively or toxically in such a way as to incite flaming; I guarantee people here aren’t intentionally being jerks about your gender. First and foremost this is a game, where we as the players are respectfully trying to kill each other. There’s no need for anyone to resort to name calling. It’s unhelpful and causes game issues that make it difficult to uphold game integrity. If you legitimately believe someone has stepped out of line, report it to the mods, it’s why they’re here.
Whoops, sorry shadow. That one slipped right off the tongue.
Dear Nobue, recognizing that you probably get called he a decent amount (it’s the internet and people assume), I understand how it can be frustrating. But do not act aggressively or toxically in such a way as to incite flaming; I guarantee people here aren’t intentionally being jerks about your gender. First and foremost this is a game, where we as the players are respectfully trying to kill each other. There’s no need for anyone to resort to name calling. It’s unhelpful and causes game issues that make it difficult to uphold game integrity. If you legitimately believe someone has stepped out of line, report it to the mods, it’s why they’re here.
There is a reason I wasn't a jerk about it the first time.
To have a player say I was saying something I wasn't and then on top of that ignore what I asked was where it went over the line.
Then on top of that to have him say "Really uptight"
Well. Then.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Why?
What do you think of Grapefruit?
Also who's 1? Now don't answer that.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Iso needed to target 5 players at Night there (no hammer clause) in a 12 player game.
10 here seems fair, but it might be 7 or 8 for all we know. I don’t trust the numbers he gives us.
Hmm, I’m not sure what to think of your clocking Nancy there. I’m assuming too soon for associative reads is what you mean?
This is nonsensical
Can you try explaining your reasoning for voting one instead of using some dumb logic?
How is saying that he didn't like the post too aggressive and voting for them when you did the exact same thing.
I dont like azreals role.
Plain as that.
Explain how what i said was horrible.
I think it could be true. But i don't think it's condusive to town wincon.
Esspecially his little quip about helping scum.
We're wasting time going back and forth on Az. His role isn't going anywhere and arguing about whether or not we want to lynch him isn't going to find scum. Going to take a look at Nancy, Kazin, and Terry after work.
Can't decipher what you're trying to say here.
Yeah, anyone who's targeted should receive a notification.
Yeah...I'm not sure Iso thought out the alt-win condition part of the role very carefully. Unless there's something I'm missing, in a fourteen player game, I can only fail to collect souls from four people before it becomes completely possible. If it were less, it would be more feasible and better designed from that perspective, but also not great from a "everyone should have fun" perspective. Instead it's just this kind of weird corner case thing that ought never to happen.
What happens if I hammer someone whose soul is gone, or double-target someone whose soul I've stolen once already?
First, you're not wolf hunting. You made a specific attack for how a wolves operate, but ignored another player doing that. It was already mentioned but there was an attack made on me for "weird" behavior.
The other thing is just saying that your role can't work as claimed. You are basically guaranteed to gain two souls.
1. Hammering wouldn't be a big deal you could easily sneak this.
2. Your night ability has virtually no counter play.
I think you're intentionally acting daft and dislike this. But add that to the fact that you are not hunting. I'm starting to fully doubt your claim.
I don't understand how your question even needs answering.
I had a question I wanted answered. Telling Azreal or anyone why it mattered would have ruined what I was hunting for. At this point I've clearly posted why it mattered and explained it.
I don't feel like holding your hand anymore than that.
SCUUUUUUM CLAAAAAAAIM
Didn't read it/don't recall it. Might have written it off as RVS garbage.
I'm not sure how someone "sneaks" a hammer on public vote counts. If you're arguing I could theoretically out-hammer the town, sure, there's that possibility. And I'm equally sure trying that would never result in my being punitively lynched in short order...not a real fear.
Night ability has counter-play based upon whatever powered roles Iso saw fit to include, plus the fact that this 14-player game is not going to be 10 nights long, I'd expect. The true "counterplay" would have to come in from me racing to be the hammer vote on every single lynch, which as we covered, would have been a stup-tacularly dumb idea for me on ten thousand different levels.
So given that you thought he was trying to get himself lynched I'd assume you wouldn't be comfortable leaving his role alive, but you said you were. Why? Your stated a "few good points" isn't really enough for going from thinking a claim was anti town enough to assume jester to wanting to leave him alive.
What do you make of people (Vezok stuck in my mind but someone else seemed to like it too, maybe Nobue?) town reading you for your interaction with me? What do you make of Terry scum reading you for it? (I'm inclined to like Terry for it and don't have strong feelings about Vezok liking it)
Speaking of Terry he's done less than I thought but I like him poking Nancy for making a largely associative scum read. It seems a bit early to be world building. Not scum reading Nancy, but agree that the Az/Me buddy read feels too much.
I'll look at Kazin after dinner.
Vezok bird released the most raucous squawk of all, or rather multiple disharmonious squawks that sounded right individually but together were a cacophony. They didn't seem to come from the same bird, suggesting they weren't natural.
unvote, vote vezokpiraka
Nancy and grape are dolphins playing in the wake of the ship. Playfully jumping out of the water and looking at the birds, the smudge, each other. They added a brightness to the journey.
Rhand an ancient sea turtle, swimming alongside the proud ship. Examining why the creator put the iceberg there in the first place.
I love the way he's swimming
Nobue and kazin birds perched upon the masts, now concerned more with the ship than screaming at the smudge. A good start.
Assume I'm dumb if you have to. Spell it out.
I am currently liking tom. The post restriction was suspicious at first because it could have been used to coast along, but he's not doing that. He's actually giving opinions.
Full disclosure: I know Kazin IRL and convinced him to play Mafia on this site. Obviously the first thing I explained was the no-talking-about-games rule and we are not communicating about the game outside this thread, but I think it's worth mentioning that we have history.
What does this mean?
I have explained why it mattered.
I can't help you any further. Either read more posts or drop it. I'm done with this though.
when claiming, was hitman your only concern? I think lyncher would be a threat as well. but hitmen and lynchers are neutrals, and you're already the neutral. no cause to worry.
@Tom
thoughts on Rodemy?
@Shadow
I don't think Azrael is a dangerous player at all. he's quite easy to read imo
wasting a lynch is in the scope of scum motivation. no reason to keep a neutral alive if you can use it to defocus from scumhunting.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
Who knows what a pigeon would be doing so far out to sea, but I could see him falling in with the seagulls
Why do you know the number of neutrals in this game?
@Azrael: are you still townreading Nobue? His accusation of you not hunting is more a smear than anything else.
I'm assuming you mean this: it was in reference to the claim:
Be grateful, always."
How is this helping town? You've only commented on people talking about you. You're throwing OMGUS on almost everyone who votes you.
As long as Azrael is alive most discussion will be about him which is not very productive.
Everyone needs to learn some mafia theory is they think leaving the claimed neutral with a win-con that makes everyone lose is a good idea.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I have some mafia theory for you: scum LOVE to hunt neutrals. It keeps them busy, makes them seem useful and they avoid having to accuse townies.
So Az is completely right with focusing on those that are talking about him. There's bound to be scum among them.
* Shadow: wants him to prove his ability. Ok. But then votes him, which is not ok. I understand his reasoning with Az’s player strength being dangerous in an anti-town role, so ok-ish.
* tom: comments without taking a stance. Meh. I do like how his reads evolve.
* Kami: doesn’t like the claim but doesn’t want to lynch Az fast either. Good.
* Nobue: tries too hard not to have a real opinion at first. Asks redundant question. Not good. Also makes a very bad vote on Kami related to Az. The vote in that case should’ve gone to Az, not Kami. Dislike very much how he accuses Az of not scumhunting.
* Grapefruit: I like his read on Kami. Talks to Az instead of about him. Good.
* vezok: votes Az immediately. Big chance of being scum.
* Nancy Drew: goes after Grape for bad reasons and way too hard. Ties Grape to Az. Might be scum.
* Kazin Drake: Not a huge fan of his vote on Az but not hating it completely either.
* Rodemy: very bad vote on Az and bad scumreads besides that.
* AE: looks townie to me.
* Terry: doesn’t get hung up with Az, focus on Nancy = good.
* Dawning: pending reaction on my other post. Won’t talk about him here.
Sidenote: In #42 and #43 Az posts reads that are complete opposites of my own. Weird. But in #60 he mostly does agree with me, which makes me think he is indeed playing town-sided.
Conclusions:
* Kami / Grape / AE / Terry likely town
* tom / shadow lean town
* Kazin null
* Nancy Drew lean scum
* Vezok / Rodemy / Nobue likely scum
What's up with this post? You can think someone wants to get lynched and still not want to lynch them. How did you make the assumption that both are mutually exclusive? I really don't see where this line of questioning is coming from or what you are trying to achieve with it. This feels like a loaded question where you are trying to push a narrative that is totally untrue.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
@Nobue: reading your back and forth with kamikaze, you say that revealing why you asked for Az’s order of operations would ruin the point you were getting at, but you never actually explained what you were “hunting for”. I am also curious specifically why this mattered to you, so could you please explain what you were hunting for, or quote yourself already explaining if you think you have, cause I can’t find it. How would scum know the number of neutrals in the game though? I agree that the phrasing is really weird, but I don’t think it is a specific tell one way or another.
I don't understand how you could say I don't have an opinion. I made it pretty clear I didn't want to lynch.
Also why would I vote Azreal for Kamakizes post? Do you even understand what was going on there or are you as clueless as they are?
Don't refer to me as he. Thanks!
Didn't you lead a wagon that got me lynched within 8 posts before.
Why do you dislike me claiming Azreal isn't scum hunting. When he isn't. He has been defending himself and not spending much time looking for wolves.
All in all I've decided I don't understand how you can post like this. Your reasoning for Shadow being ok makes no sense when you call others scum for going for Azreal immediately. Its like you woke up made up a bunch of *****. Forced it into reads and said this seems good. I would call you scum for this EXCEPT I've seen you do this as town already.
I wanted to know if Azreal targeted before or After the kills.
I've explained how the role makes a lot more sense if it targets after the kill because then Azreal has to play the game of did my target get nk'd.
If I would have explained this BEFORE Azreal answered the question then he could have changed his answer to make the role make more sense.
How is this complicated?
I disagree that it makes “more” sense if it was after the kill, but thank you for concisely clarifying, that wasn’t so hard.
I'll explain it to you one time and politely request you refrain from questioning my intelligence.
It was a fake case. She pushed Grapefruit for the simple fact that she RVSed Vezo and tried to force a case off of nothing. This is aggressive behavior built on a throne of eggshells. This aggressiveness is something scum do to start shading people and get Day 1 mislynches rolling. The difference between what I did and what Nancy did was that she built a case on the foundation of an RVS vote. I built a case on the foundation of a non-RVS vote.
Be grateful, always."
That is not what you said at all.
Fake was never once added in either of your first two posts. You can either fully explain your reasoning before or add it in later the fact that you added it in so late is suspect.
I didn't question your intelligence, but I am now. I said your logic was bad. Reading Compression is not a strong point eh?
Specifically after I asked to not be called he. But you managed to miss that so I guess you are either not reading everything or are just being a dick.
Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Dear Terry, please don’t react.
Dear Nobue, recognizing that you probably get called he a decent amount (it’s the internet and people assume), I understand how it can be frustrating. But do not act aggressively or toxically in such a way as to incite flaming; I guarantee people here aren’t intentionally being jerks about your gender. First and foremost this is a game, where we as the players are respectfully trying to kill each other. There’s no need for anyone to resort to name calling. It’s unhelpful and causes game issues that make it difficult to uphold game integrity. If you legitimately believe someone has stepped out of line, report it to the mods, it’s why they’re here.
There is a reason I wasn't a jerk about it the first time.
To have a player say I was saying something I wasn't and then on top of that ignore what I asked was where it went over the line.
Then on top of that to have him say "Really uptight"
Well. Then.