im starting to like your pop in pop outs less and less as this game goes on...
i mean do you not like the wagons?
I do actually, I just dont like your posts anymore... I wanna see kaba burn tbh... and you a long with you at this point...
because i wanted to wait for info?
like, if you recall my reads i have him as scummy regardless of who stopped the kill i just think az is scummier.
er, well, i did. kaba just claiming and peacing out isnt exactly filling me with warm fuzzies
Tbh the only way to confirm if Terry is really the nurse is to lynch him, or find a way to bodyguard axel... And even if Axel is protected and still dies... We still can't say that Terry isn't the scum poisoner... I really do hate this situation because it also depends on what kaba says...
Again why would terry need to claim in that situation?
Don't do this. Step back if you need to, but do not resort to this.
Jenna please don't respond.
Yeah, I know. I have been trying really hard to put up with certain people and Jenna decided to go personal. My comment was justified and I agree we need to move on and stop. It was mostly to emphasize the point that she crossed a line.
By "ego" I meant your role in this game. "Alter ego" was adroit since "nurse" is your claim.
That would have made sense if this was danganronpa idk how anyone was suppose to realize that
My apologies. I would never intentionally attack someone personally. I see no reason to do so when the report button is right there.
Ok i feel a little better about yoru slot after seeing this post
Let's use some common sense here. Axel, Me, DBS and Kaba are off the table for today. If Axel doesn't die, Kaba is scum and I'm not a poisoner. Maybe we should take a look at those people pushing that angle because its conjecture until Axel dies or not. I think scum know he's going to die because they sent in him as their target and are setting me up for a mislynch.
So if Axel DOES die, we can address me tomorrow. Unfortunately, it doesn't tell us anything about DBS or Kaba. In the meantime, I have a chance to bodyguard tonight.
We have plenty of other players to look at today and we still have a week left in this phase.
I am in agreement with what terry said here, I wont be lynching terry today when results the next day can prove he may be town.
Tomorrow we should most likely be lynching kaba unless he explained more about gis ability
1. When you didn't vote him, you shouldn't have known he wasn't present.
2. Tell me more about Shin's Role Fishing, because I think you were the one suggesting a mass claim.
3. I'm not really following your line on mechanics here. I'm pretty sure your vote on Shin was based on Mechanics first and foremost.
1. while posting my RB decision, I ended it with a vote on Shinichi. Kaba is guaranteed to not be able to give an answer before I voted. his absence was further apparent, with the way you called him out and he wasn't around.
2. Shin said my 'softing a pr' is scummy, when all I said was that town will never want to lynch me. later put Last at L2 to see his claim, then allied him as townread proof - blatant evidence of rolefishing. I advocated massclaiming only Today, since the majority of important claims are in scum's databanks already.
3. blatant rolefishing isn't worth overlooking, moreso when Shin brought up his claim/suspicions after hammering a townread. tell me, is that based on behavior, or mechanics? he kept bringing up mechanics (poor claiming), as a reason to vote me, so I ended up returning the favor endlessly~ is it wrong on my part? I always return the favor! ..... I'm inclined to believe he is not town. be it scum or tpr is the question.
1. WHy did u roleblock kaba then?
2.Softing is scummy, esically the line "Town wouldnt want to lynch me" -.-. I allied my him because i am a decent person sorry to say.
3.I didnt hammer anyone just saying. I am town and you just admitted your vote is petty what town votes like that?
@Terry
may I ask why so concerned about how we see you? you should be scumhunting, not validating yourself. maybe you're scum afterall.
and with the way you asked Axel on the 'poisoner' bit, I guess you ARE the poisoner, and looking for a way to talk yourself out of it when it happens. looks likely.
Did you not notice my press on Kaba recently? Not just my vote, but I'm still waiting to hear back from him about the wording of his ability.
looks more like you just want to hammer and call it a day rather than question. didn't look like a push, at least to me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Terry
may I ask why so concerned about how we see you? you should be scumhunting, not validating yourself. maybe you're scum afterall.
and with the way you asked Axel on the 'poisoner' bit, I guess you ARE the poisoner, and looking for a way to talk yourself out of it when it happens. looks likely.
Did you not notice my press on Kaba recently? Not just my vote, but I'm still waiting to hear back from him about the wording of his ability.
looks more like you just want to hammer and call it a day rather than question. didn't look like a push, at least to me.
Dude, I think I am the only one that has an open question to Kaba.
@Last
how relevant is 'being a decent person' to a game?
being aggressive, and mean, can get you answers to questions based on the person asking or the person answer, as long as it doesnt get to the point of harrassment and being a jerk...
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Last
how relevant is 'being a decent person' to a game?
being aggressive, and mean, can get you answers to questions based on the person asking or the person answer, as long as it doesnt get to the point of harrassment and being a jerk...
@Last
how relevant is 'being a decent person' to a game?
being aggressive, and mean, can get you answers to questions based on the person asking or the person answer, as long as it doesnt get to the point of harrassment and being a jerk...
thanks for the answer. I'm sure we're all decent here, or we wouldn't be allowed to play.
the relevance of decency to a game is none.
now tell me, what makes Shinichi worth saving from a lynch - because he allied you on the grounds of decency?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
So, fully cognizant that sticking my head up at this particular moment means ADHD townies are probably going to whack-a-mole me, I just wanted to ask, when is this town going to grow the balls to research and vote for a behavioral case instead of getting jerked around by half-assed role analysis and speculation?
Asking for a friend.
Tom and Iso need cased. I'd do it myself atm, but I've got a 14-client to-do list waiting for me, and despite it being 8 pm, there's no end in sight.
So, fully cognizant that sticking my head up at this particular moment means ADHD townies are probably going to whack-a-mole me, I just wanted to ask, when is this town going to grow the balls to research and vote for a behavioral case instead of getting jerked around by half-assed role analysis and speculation?
Asking for a friend.
Tom and Iso need cased. I'd do it myself atm, but I've got a 14-client to-do list waiting for me, and despite it being 8 pm, there's no end in sight.
u think I'm voting kaba for just his role? No, and someone def needs to stake out Tom... I think Iso is town, but you guys can do w/e
ISO, can you speak with me logically here with out being biased. Clearly Kaba's claim was a fake claim. My character doesn't have a *****, let alone human genitalia (since apparently I'm a cyborg), so I'm immune to his ability (this is making light of the situation). Back to the issue at hand. I mean Kaba didn't even try to make a real claim. What does this tell you? It tells me Kaba is scum and trying to take me down with him. He clearly knows he's going to flip scum. I would not be surprised if Kaba was the BP stealer, sounds like a prostitute to me.
I have to take some pie in my face and admit that DBS probably blocked it based on that. However, this is probably the best possible outcome. That means DBS is confirmed town and Kaba confirmed scum.
I don't think it was a fake claim, also since when does flavor effect if an ability works on a role or not? I doubt DBS could have figured out something like that but either way Its highly likely its not a fake claim but either way it sounds like its coming from scum regardless. I would rather azreal but ill take kaba instead since I just dont know what to think when comes to that claim.
Kaba was missing from scum chat last night, DBS decides to frame him for town credit and I actually blocked Axel's kill, Kaba comes in and commits a DERP I'm Scum suicide and Axel dies with out coming to terms of it being his last day.
It's a stretchy, but Kaba's claim was just SOOOOOO bad, it's making me nervous. Not nervous that he isn't scum, nervous that there is something more nefarious going on.
Either way i wont be voting you only 3 people i am willing to vote ill sneak a 4th in maybe.
Kaba, why didnt you target anyone either of the nights?
Night 1 I was worried I would be betrayed because I wasn't very active (I only start with 3 BP btw)so betrayal and acting would leave me at 1, unable to act and also prone to death by betrayal the next nght. Decided not to use it
Night 2 I wasn't here
@Joe I don't know what to tell you lol apparently my feminine charms transcends gender and species
Actually... Either way you or Kaba could be either alignment. That's not useful.
How is Kaba town if Axel doesn't die?
If something else happened to stop that NK?
There are too many ways to stop a NK floating around as is, I doubt there are more.
We have Az, Dawning, Shin, and you, at least. I don't recall if Az claimed what he did last night. Dawning claimed to block Kaba, you claimed to protect Axel, and Shin's ability would have only affected Dawning, iirc.
And this is assuming honest claims.
I cant stop night kills though so lol i doubt my ability sohuld be factored in.
Let's use some common sense here. Axel, Me, DBS and Kaba are off the table for today. If Axel doesn't die, Kaba is scum and I'm not a poisoner. Maybe we should take a look at those people pushing that angle because its conjecture until Axel dies or not. I think scum know he's going to die because they sent in him as their target and are setting me up for a mislynch.
So if Axel DOES die, we can address me tomorrow. Unfortunately, it doesn't tell us anything about DBS or Kaba. In the meantime, I have a chance to bodyguard tonight.
We have plenty of other players to look at today and we still have a week left in this phase.
Actually... Either way you or Kaba could be either alignment. That's not useful.
How is Kaba town if Axel doesn't die?
If something else happened to stop that NK?
I mean unless your hinting at something that we should know i dont belive there is that many ways atleast controlled by town that can stop kills.
@Last
how relevant is 'being a decent person' to a game?
being aggressive, and mean, can get you answers to questions based on the person asking or the person answer, as long as it doesnt get to the point of harrassment and being a jerk...
How does one be mean without being a jerk?
Thats what im saying, if you pressure people through aggression or strong words then idont see how i can be done without being mean
what confirmed Axel as town to you? [just because you used your ability doesn't mean it actually blocked anything.]
if successfully using an action is all your message means, what made you townfirm Axel? there was no guarantee you blocked the kill, or even if there was any, so there was no indicator towards his alignment. you should know best.
starting to look like you scum-slipped (hard to believe) by townfirming Axel. I doubt Axel's reaction to your claim was fake, or that you both staged this coming into Day 3.
but since I'm more interested in seeing who tries to take hammer cred again... Vote: Kabazame
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
So, fully cognizant that sticking my head up at this particular moment means ADHD townies are probably going to whack-a-mole me, I just wanted to ask, when is this town going to grow the balls to research and vote for a behavioral case instead of getting jerked around by half-assed role analysis and speculation?
Asking for a friend.
Tom and Iso need cased. I'd do it myself atm, but I've got a 14-client to-do list waiting for me, and despite it being 8 pm, there's no end in sight.
a behavioral case I can see is Shinichi. but as evidenced in the previous phase, no one has the balls to finish him off. we could try at least, since some people have said they're willing to lynch him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@JoeTerry: My question was whether or not you'd paid attention at all to anything dawn has done all game, and then get back to me on how you think that's even out of character for what she's done, so far.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
alright housekeeping post since were ending this day pretty soon and kaba will likely flip scum and ive been sort of away playing hydra games most of the day
i was here:
think lngrr is confirmed town now. could technically be with iso for confirming his claim basically. but nothing else about a lngrr/iso makes any sense at all. zero reason for scum to have that role. wasnt much reason to fake it either. also, this read is getting old now, but i saw how he reacted to pressure as scum in low fantasy and this just isnt ******* it.
still think jenna/axel are pure af and whisper is prolly a liability but guileless now that im used to him
joe/phoenix/to a lesser extent shin look town on behavior but joe betraying axel/claiming a third role that can alter a kill, phoenix getting tracked to the ******* nightkill, and shin's dawning tunnel and nonsensical setupgaming are bad looks.
theres plenty of ways for osi to be scum but im feeling better about him aorn
iso... kind of the same tbh. though for dumber reasons if thats even possible
and then weve got AZ, cyth, kaba
who are just, not townie in basically any way
i remember there was some kaba posts i liked, but i dont remember what they were and he fits on a team with whichever didnt stop the kill or whatever
so im at, like
lngrr/axel/jenna/whisper for town circle
and then whichever of [dawning/joe] stopped the kill
osi + [shin if it was joe and probably still joe if it was dawning]
iso still isnt townie (with strong chance to move up a tier or two if/when az flips scum) + [kaba AND dawning if joe stopped the kill] or [shin if dawning stopped the kill]
cyth/phoenix are more likely scum than not at this point
az is just scum + [kaba if dawning blocked the kill obviously]
this is the first ~rainbow wall this game ive felt really good about
town circle remains the same
im... pretty torn on joe right now him being poisoner doesnt make a lot of sense with claim but if axel doesnt die tonight he was maybe just trying to buy kabaslot an extra day? not sure if thats worth it if kaba is bp stealer. and i alluded to this earlier but sortofCCing az doesnt make sense if theyre w/w either and im really not sure where to put him right now. if kaba were to flip town i guess hes fine. if scum and axel dies... idk. if scum and axel lives...yeah i just dont know what to do with him right now
rn it looks like dawning stopping the NK is most likely scenario. which is kind of a relief tbh i, ummm, skim most of her posts at this point. she could still be neutral like i initially thought but that just wouldnt really matter any more
iso has started to make an amount of sense. and i like cythare's indignation kinda. they still look like scum together from megiddo but havent seen much to back that up since. maybe theyre both ok?
shin has looked steadily worse to me and i think im officially giving up the townread
phoenix still the same old razor
az ive been over. nothing really changed
and the quickness with which kaba claimed and ran away again just looks like caught scum
so lngrr/axel/jenna/whisper
dawning/osi
joe
iso/cyth
phoenix/shin
kaba/az
before the hydra games started i was making a little chart of who can be scum with who or whatever
and its pretty muddy in my scumreads
so
i guess ill work on that
Well, I took a closer look at Kaba's posts, since blessedly there aren't a lot of them. I didn't get any strong feelings, however, one way or the other. There was nothing that stood out.
He was more suspicious of Phoenix's claim than most, so, if he flips scum that might be a + for Phoenix. But then, he voted for JoeT, primarily because Joe was pushing "too hard" for a Phoenix lynch when, according to Kaba, now was not the time. So there's a little dichotomy there.
Then he disappeared. Claimed computer troubles. Came back and made a questionable claim, with questionable non-uses of his ability. And has now mostly disappeared again.
Like, I don't see much to make me want to keep him around, except for the the fact that he's not contributing to the thread bloat. If he's Town we're so far behind it's probably unrecoverable. And I'm definitely dying.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Wow, kaba literally hasn't come back. I'm kinda wondering why he even stuck neck out in the first place.
Unvote, almost ready for this day to end, however I'd like to get one thing on record before the hammer.
@Az: What are your thoughts on Kaba, and what do you plan to do tonight (don't want specifics, just don't want to go into tomorrow surprised that you betrayed again because "town didn't come to a consensus.")
Well, I took a closer look at Kaba's posts, since blessedly there aren't a lot of them. I didn't get any strong feelings, however, one way or the other. There was nothing that stood out.
He was more suspicious of Phoenix's claim than most, so, if he flips scum that might be a + for Phoenix. But then, he voted for JoeT, primarily because Joe was pushing "too hard" for a Phoenix lynch when, according to Kaba, now was not the time. So there's a little dichotomy there.
Then he disappeared. Claimed computer troubles. Came back and made a questionable claim, with questionable non-uses of his ability. And has now mostly disappeared again.
Like, I don't see much to make me want to keep him around, except for the the fact that he's not contributing to the thread bloat. If he's Town we're so far behind it's probably unrecoverable. And I'm definitely dying.
If he's scum that actually looks reasonably good for Joeterry, I'd forgotten about that. Looks like he meant to save me for a day when more people would support lynching me.
what confirmed Axel as town to you? [just because you used your ability doesn't mean it actually blocked anything.]
if successfully using an action is all your message means, what made you townfirm Axel? there was no guarantee you blocked the kill, or even if there was any, so there was no indicator towards his alignment. you should know best.
starting to look like you scum-slipped (hard to believe) by townfirming Axel. I doubt Axel's reaction to your claim was fake, or that you both staged this coming into Day 3.
but since I'm more interested in seeing who tries to take hammer cred again... Vote: Kabazame
I dont think he should be town firmed, but alot of people saw azel as town not sure anyone actually scum read him after a certain point in the game. So it makes sense for mafia to want to remove that obstacle hench why he think he stopped the night kill by using his ability on axel.
Either way we will find out moroe after this phase ends with kabazme dieing.
Again what is worse about me, ive been playing the same way since the start so seems weird that now u think i suddenly seem worse.
@DBS I rather not be lynched anymore because I dont know how well this game is going for the town but i don't want to be the one to die knowing I am town, if you still think i am scum after this phase then, by all means, pursue me but rather kaba or azreal this phase.
@JoeTerry: My question was whether or not you'd paid attention at all to anything dawn has done all game, and then get back to me on how you think that's even out of character for what she's done, so far.
-
@Az: For what it's worth, I think Iso is town.
It's been maybe my number one frustration this whole game, I don't think that excuses it.
Ok, I'm in a voluntary fire evacuation zone, but it looks like the fire stalled so I'm in work for a bit and can post. If any one wants some real time with me, now's the time, not sure how much I can be on during the weekend.
Wow, kaba literally hasn't come back. I'm kinda wondering why he even stuck neck out in the first place.
Unvote, almost ready for this day to end, however I'd like to get one thing on record before the hammer.
@Az: What are your thoughts on Kaba, and what do you plan to do tonight (don't want specifics, just don't want to go into tomorrow surprised that you betrayed again because "town didn't come to a consensus.")
Well, tonight, I'm generally inclined to ally, and I'm nervous about lynching Kaba solely on the basis of a role interaction and his disappearance since he was already a lurker, but I've not done my scheduled reread on him to date, so that's more of a "this is yet another example of poor town practices" rather than a "welcome to another certain mislynch, you fools!" scenario. I'll be protecting someone or other. I'd prefer to be betrayed, rather than allied.
Wow, kaba literally hasn't come back. I'm kinda wondering why he even stuck neck out in the first place.
Unvote, almost ready for this day to end, however I'd like to get one thing on record before the hammer.
@Az: What are your thoughts on Kaba, and what do you plan to do tonight (don't want specifics, just don't want to go into tomorrow surprised that you betrayed again because "town didn't come to a consensus.")
Well, tonight, I'm generally inclined to ally, and I'm nervous about lynching Kaba solely on the basis of a role interaction and his disappearance since he was already a lurker, but I've not done my scheduled reread on him to date, so that's more of a "this is yet another example of poor town practices" rather than a "welcome to another certain mislynch, you fools!" scenario. I'll be protecting someone or other. I'd prefer to be betrayed, rather than allied.
Well, at first I wanted to let Axel's fate decide what we do with Kaba. If Axel doesn't die, then I'm 100% full bore on Kaba, but if Axel dies, I still would be inclined to Lynch Kaba, his response to today was completely unsatisfactory.
Well, at first I wanted to let Axel's fate decide what we do with Kaba. If Axel doesn't die, then I'm 100% full bore on Kaba, but if Axel dies, I still would be inclined to Lynch Kaba, his response to today was completely unsatisfactory.
@JoeTerry: My question was whether or not you'd paid attention at all to anything dawn has done all game, and then get back to me on how you think that's even out of character for what she's done, so far.
-
@Az: For what it's worth, I think Iso is town.
It's been maybe my number one frustration this whole game, I don't think that excuses it.
Okay? But that's not the point. The point is that you're acting like this is something new and unexpected, which is disingenuous at best.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ok, I plan on doing a re-read of the Kaba slot and I wouldn't be surprised if Kaba is scum AND Axel dies because when DBS claimed why he targeted Kaba, I don't think it panned out, but first I want to look at what DBS said:
"I roleblocked Kaba. based off possible correlation to Shin (about Phoenix)."
Which doesn't really seem logical. He role blocked Kaba based on an associative scum read of Shin. I'm still not sure why Shin allied him, maybe it was to keep him further away from 1 BP and unlocking his "Vig", which would point to scum Shin. Anyways, that reason didn't make a ton of sense, so I kept reading DBS' ISO to see if he expanded on why he blocked Kaba.
He again stands by that weird reason to block Kaba:
"I wouldn't have roleblocked Kaba if I didn't consider Shin to be scum. Shin was lowkey defending Phoenix before changing his tone, then we see Kaba voting Terry for pushing Phoenix. but I guess... might switch to Kaba if nothing new happens. no NK is better than speculation over counterclaims."
It's too bad of reasoning to be scum I think. I hate reads like this, but I think if scum fake claims a blocked night kill on someone, they go right after them, not just build some house of cards based on a counter claim on another player's claimed role that doesn't even really overlap with their own claimed role and shin that player in their first post of the day. I may not rule out Third Party for DBS, but I don't think he has a scum team with him.
Up until this point (#5849) DBS also has incorrectly interpreted the game specific mechanics and spent a significant number of posts arguing it to further the case on Shin. Heres what's wrong:
DBS interpreted the rules as Night Actions BEFORE the AB game and making the statement that shins role shouldn't work. Here is the order:
1. Paying points to activate abilities
2. Night Abilities
3. Gaining or losing BP according to voting results
4. Checking if someone has 0 or less points
So night actions and AB choices are submitted simultaneously. Then the paying of points to activate ability occurs, in Shin's claimed case, that cost is 0. Then the night abilities happen. In Shin's claimed case his ability is dependent on his choice for A/B. Following that ability's resolution based on the following Order of Operations:
1. Immunities
2. Controlling another player's actions
3. First strike non-killing actions
4. Gaining actions
5. Losing actions
6. Redirecting / replacement effects
7. Roleblocking
8. Protecting
9. Rescuing / Reviving
10. Sending items or messages
11. First strike killing actions
12. Killing actions
13. Gathering information
14. Anything else
THEN the AB points are added or subtracted. This is important because there are apparently other abilities that cause the gain or loss of BP besides the AB game. Then people at 0 die. So TLDNR version is that the AB game happens simultaneously, but the net or loss points happen AFTER the night abilities, the choice of AB has already registered before this point.
I later asked DBS why he didn't role block Phoenix to prove his ability and DBS responded: "I was looking to block a nightkill, not prove someone can turn this into a flipless. this question sounds bad.", but I find it really weird that he would have blocked the night kill and voted shin instead of Kaba. Then this comes up:
"there are few factors to consider that made me unsure of Kaba, especially when he wasn't present to defend himself. I ultimately looked to roleblock the BP Taker, since there was no confirmation of blocking NKs. not into dichotomy assumptions on give/take BP roles, so I wanted to see if the thief would out themselves as 'town'. Kaba appears and doesn't claim thief, so I'm more settled with him as scum."
So right here he has told two different stories on why he role blocked Kaba. AND he shouldn't have known Kaba wasn't present when he voted Shin.
Also there is another pretty heavy contradictions in his use of mechanics to push Shin and repeatedly talking about not relying on mechanics.
So all that being said, here's my main point:
DBS gave very poor, if not contradictory, reasons for choosing to role block Kaba. When you compare that to my reasons for protecting Axel (see below), it seems like the most likely scenario is that I saved Axel for the day. HOWEVER, based on Kaba's response to the pressure today, I also think it is very likely that Kaba may be scum. This would imply that DBS is town not quite thinking about this game correctly OR it was a half thought out bus on Kaba, but I think we really need to wait and see what happened to Axel and I REALLY think Axel should come to terms with his impending death.
Ok, it looks like Kaba has been MIA since Nov 21st and ISO was surprised by his Ally result from Kaba, I'm going to assume that was a default. I wish Bur would have announced this replacement at the start of the day. Here we gooooo!
I didn't like some of his earlier posts, and I think at times he's been pushing an agenda rather than hunting.
And he Betrayed me!
Sorry I betrayed you. It was a necessary evil. I got some bad news Axel... you are dead. I spent my BP to use an ability called ADAM (I have no idea what that means) and I temporarily protected you from death. You will die at the end of this phase. Let me explain the thought process.
I'm Luna, Town Nurse. I am extremely concerned with Azrael's Doctor claim, but my role name says specifically "Nurse" so I assumed I'm some sort of back up. I wanted to wait to hear what he said and if he claimed a target last night, but he didn't (concerning and a bit reassuring at the same time).
My first ability is Body Guard (called Protect, I die instead of my target). It costs 0 BP but I need to have at least 3 BP to do it, which was part of the reason I betrayed Night 1. I knew my second ability was more useful than the first so I didn't put my life on the line for anyone that night. So going into Night 2 I had 6 BP (started with 3), but my second ability costs 5 BP to use, so I had to betray tonight or risk dying to a betray. I thought it was Ok because I knew Axel was doing alright in the BP department. I town read Axel hard obviously. Now to my process of choosing who to protect, starting on the assumption everyone is town (which I know they aren't, but it was a deliberate decision to grant the benefit of the doubt):
The first two I took off the list were Phoenix and Jenna. Protecting either of them would confirm or deny the other, so scum needs to leave them alive.
I definitely would have been relieved to see Az killed tonight because it would take a huge weight off my shoulders, so I knew scum wouldn't kill him (remember this is starting off with the assumption each player is town). ISO is in the same boat, plus they need to fear the retaliation, so they are off.
Shin and Osi have been hotly contested during Day 2. They are off.
Kabazame
tomsloger
Cythare
LnGrrrR
Axelrod
Kaba and Cy have been pretty lurky, so I took them off.
tomsloger
LnGrrrR
Axelrod
LNG seems like a non-threat to scum based on claim.
tomsloger
Axelrod
I was about to betray Axel and Tom seems to have been getting more heat than Axel, so Axel it was.
Why am I claiming that this is what happened over the Roleblock scenario DBS puts forth? DBS essentially, if he had town-mind, Role Blocked the kill, but he votes Shin instead, who Allied with him the night before. I may be pushing DBS hard, but I want to see this shake out first. I'm essentially vanilla tonight, but I feel like I achieved my purpose and will probably Ally/Betray going forward more based on reads than trying to get my ability off.
Sorry Axel for betraying a town read, but I bought you 1 Day phase as confirmed town. If you end up not dying at the end of the day we KNOW Kaba was the murderer. As of now, I think Kaba was MIA over night and scum would not have sent him to do the kill. I'd rather Lynch DBS, but am open for discussion.
PS, I may have ran out of time to ISO Kaba, but I'll try to later tonight or over the weekend.
@JoeTerry: My question was whether or not you'd paid attention at all to anything dawn has done all game, and then get back to me on how you think that's even out of character for what she's done, so far.
-
@Az: For what it's worth, I think Iso is town.
It's been maybe my number one frustration this whole game, I don't think that excuses it.
Okay? But that's not the point. The point is that you're acting like this is something new and unexpected, which is disingenuous at best.
You're acting like I haven't expressed my distrust of and frustration with DBS this whole game. I've been on him for this type of play all game.
Ok, I plan on doing a re-read of the Kaba slot and I wouldn't be surprised if Kaba is scum AND Axel dies because when DBS claimed why he targeted Kaba, I don't think it panned out,
if successfully using an action is all your message means, what made you townfirm Axel? there was no guarantee you blocked the kill, or even if there was any, so there was no indicator towards his alignment. you should know best.
@DBS I rather not be lynched anymore because I dont know how well this game is going for the town but i don't want to be the one to die knowing I am town, if you still think i am scum after this phase then, by all means, pursue me but rather kaba or azreal this phase.
if being lynched or killed will help town's PoE, there's no reason to refuse. and Azrael isn't on my list, why do you mention him?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I'm saying your reasons you gave for targeting kaba were bad at best (that you thought that shin was scum and thought kaba interacted with him in a scummy manner, which is totally dependant on an assumption based on an assumption) and contradictory at worst (you started off saying you intended to block the night kill, but then later said you were aiming to block the BP stealer).
I'm saying that the reasoning you expressed is either a lie or really bad and much less likely to be the source of the missing nk when compared to my superior targeting POE. You'll say I'm being arrogant but I put both of our line of thoughts regarding targets for all to read and I think the difference is clear.
That being said in the most respectful way possible, I am saying that you may not have blocked the nk from kaba, but that he may still be scum and you may still be town.
1. I want you to answer my question there. why do you townfirm Axel if your message only confirms activating your ability? where does it confirm Axel's alignment?
2. blocking the BP thief was a primary concern, with NK as a 2nd. nothing guarantees how RBs work on this site, especially to a newcomer. is that or isn't that a logical conclusion?
3. blocking Kaba by interaction with Shin is quite helpful. since no kill went through, or thievery, it's safe to assume I blocked one of them. the only problem I would have is......if Kaba is the BP Taker and town - that was why I "didn't vote the person I RB'd".
4. I did factor in you blocking the NK while I blocked the thief, but it is muddied by you townfirming Axel. your ability and message clearly isn't an indication towards alignment. for this I'm willing to consider you scum, even if Axel dies.
explain to me why I should think you're town, with all the reasons given.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Be grateful, always."
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
like, if you recall my reads i have him as scummy regardless of who stopped the kill i just think az is scummier.
er, well, i did. kaba just claiming and peacing out isnt exactly filling me with warm fuzzies
if we could lynch both today i would.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Non-Staff Quasi-ModKabazame (5): TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, LnGrrrR, osieorb18, Lastwhisper, Iso
Azrael (3): tomsloger, Phoenix-Fire, Jenna Tolaria
tomsloger (2): Azrael, dawningbluesky
dawningbluesky (1): Shinichi
Not Voting (3): Kabazame, Axelrod, Cythare
With 14 alive, it’s 8 to lynch. Deadline is Wednesday, December 13th at 11.59 pm EST.
Again why would terry need to claim in that situation?
why?
Ok i feel a little better about yoru slot after seeing this post
I am in agreement with what terry said here, I wont be lynching terry today when results the next day can prove he may be town.
Tomorrow we should most likely be lynching kaba unless he explained more about gis ability
What is the flying fish sticks is this game lol and its so unspsecific -.-
Well, if I don't sleep, then I'll pass out in class.
You ask a silly question...
1. WHy did u roleblock kaba then?
2.Softing is scummy, esically the line "Town wouldnt want to lynch me" -.-. I allied my him because i am a decent person sorry to say.
3.I didnt hammer anyone just saying. I am town and you just admitted your vote is petty what town votes like that?
Be grateful, always."
how relevant is 'being a decent person' to a game?
Be grateful, always."
Vote: Kabazame
I would prefer not to have to wait for Kabazame to lurk through the next six days.
To nobody's surprise.
I believe I have an open question to you.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
the relevance of decency to a game is none.
now tell me, what makes Shinichi worth saving from a lynch - because he allied you on the grounds of decency?
Be grateful, always."
Asking for a friend.
Tom and Iso need cased. I'd do it myself atm, but I've got a 14-client to-do list waiting for me, and despite it being 8 pm, there's no end in sight.
I don't think it was a fake claim, also since when does flavor effect if an ability works on a role or not? I doubt DBS could have figured out something like that but either way Its highly likely its not a fake claim but either way it sounds like its coming from scum regardless. I would rather azreal but ill take kaba instead since I just dont know what to think when comes to that claim.
Either way i wont be voting you only 3 people i am willing to vote ill sneak a 4th in maybe.
Only scum should be scared of being betrayed.
Still confused at what ur actual ability does
I cant stop night kills though so lol i doubt my ability sohuld be factored in.
I mean unless your hinting at something that we should know i dont belive there is that many ways atleast controlled by town that can stop kills.
Think your reading out of contect espically when kaba even stated that he was inactive night 2 which means terry theory holds some what.
Thats what im saying, if you pressure people through aggression or strong words then idont see how i can be done without being mean
if successfully using an action is all your message means, what made you townfirm Axel? there was no guarantee you blocked the kill, or even if there was any, so there was no indicator towards his alignment. you should know best.
starting to look like you scum-slipped (hard to believe) by townfirming Axel. I doubt Axel's reaction to your claim was fake, or that you both staged this coming into Day 3.
but since I'm more interested in seeing who tries to take hammer cred again...
Vote: Kabazame
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
-
@Az: For what it's worth, I think Iso is town.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
i was here:
town circle remains the same
im... pretty torn on joe right now him being poisoner doesnt make a lot of sense with claim but if axel doesnt die tonight he was maybe just trying to buy kabaslot an extra day? not sure if thats worth it if kaba is bp stealer. and i alluded to this earlier but sortofCCing az doesnt make sense if theyre w/w either and im really not sure where to put him right now. if kaba were to flip town i guess hes fine. if scum and axel dies... idk. if scum and axel lives...yeah i just dont know what to do with him right now
rn it looks like dawning stopping the NK is most likely scenario. which is kind of a relief tbh i, ummm, skim most of her posts at this point. she could still be neutral like i initially thought but that just wouldnt really matter any more
iso has started to make an amount of sense. and i like cythare's indignation kinda. they still look like scum together from megiddo but havent seen much to back that up since. maybe theyre both ok?
shin has looked steadily worse to me and i think im officially giving up the townread
phoenix still the same old razor
az ive been over. nothing really changed
and the quickness with which kaba claimed and ran away again just looks like caught scum
so
lngrr/axel/jenna/whisper
dawning/osi
joe
iso/cyth
phoenix/shin
kaba/az
before the hydra games started i was making a little chart of who can be scum with who or whatever
and its pretty muddy in my scumreads
so
i guess ill work on that
He was more suspicious of Phoenix's claim than most, so, if he flips scum that might be a + for Phoenix. But then, he voted for JoeT, primarily because Joe was pushing "too hard" for a Phoenix lynch when, according to Kaba, now was not the time. So there's a little dichotomy there.
Then he disappeared. Claimed computer troubles. Came back and made a questionable claim, with questionable non-uses of his ability. And has now mostly disappeared again.
Like, I don't see much to make me want to keep him around, except for the the fact that he's not contributing to the thread bloat. If he's Town we're so far behind it's probably unrecoverable. And I'm definitely dying.
Unvote, almost ready for this day to end, however I'd like to get one thing on record before the hammer.
@Az: What are your thoughts on Kaba, and what do you plan to do tonight (don't want specifics, just don't want to go into tomorrow surprised that you betrayed again because "town didn't come to a consensus.")
I dont think he should be town firmed, but alot of people saw azel as town not sure anyone actually scum read him after a certain point in the game. So it makes sense for mafia to want to remove that obstacle hench why he think he stopped the night kill by using his ability on axel.
Either way we will find out moroe after this phase ends with kabazme dieing.
Why am i scum if phoenix is scum?
Again what is worse about me, ive been playing the same way since the start so seems weird that now u think i suddenly seem worse.
@DBS I rather not be lynched anymore because I dont know how well this game is going for the town but i don't want to be the one to die knowing I am town, if you still think i am scum after this phase then, by all means, pursue me but rather kaba or azreal this phase.
Well, tonight, I'm generally inclined to ally, and I'm nervous about lynching Kaba solely on the basis of a role interaction and his disappearance since he was already a lurker, but I've not done my scheduled reread on him to date, so that's more of a "this is yet another example of poor town practices" rather than a "welcome to another certain mislynch, you fools!" scenario. I'll be protecting someone or other. I'd prefer to be betrayed, rather than allied.
and i havent liked your interplay with dawning
claimed too easy
*disappeared*
Okay? But that's not the point. The point is that you're acting like this is something new and unexpected, which is disingenuous at best.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
"I roleblocked Kaba. based off possible correlation to Shin (about Phoenix)."
Which doesn't really seem logical. He role blocked Kaba based on an associative scum read of Shin. I'm still not sure why Shin allied him, maybe it was to keep him further away from 1 BP and unlocking his "Vig", which would point to scum Shin. Anyways, that reason didn't make a ton of sense, so I kept reading DBS' ISO to see if he expanded on why he blocked Kaba.
He again stands by that weird reason to block Kaba:
"I wouldn't have roleblocked Kaba if I didn't consider Shin to be scum. Shin was lowkey defending Phoenix before changing his tone, then we see Kaba voting Terry for pushing Phoenix. but I guess... might switch to Kaba if nothing new happens. no NK is better than speculation over counterclaims."
It's too bad of reasoning to be scum I think. I hate reads like this, but I think if scum fake claims a blocked night kill on someone, they go right after them, not just build some house of cards based on a counter claim on another player's claimed role that doesn't even really overlap with their own claimed role and shin that player in their first post of the day. I may not rule out Third Party for DBS, but I don't think he has a scum team with him.
Up until this point (#5849) DBS also has incorrectly interpreted the game specific mechanics and spent a significant number of posts arguing it to further the case on Shin. Heres what's wrong:
DBS interpreted the rules as Night Actions BEFORE the AB game and making the statement that shins role shouldn't work. Here is the order:
1. Paying points to activate abilities
2. Night Abilities
3. Gaining or losing BP according to voting results
4. Checking if someone has 0 or less points
So night actions and AB choices are submitted simultaneously. Then the paying of points to activate ability occurs, in Shin's claimed case, that cost is 0. Then the night abilities happen. In Shin's claimed case his ability is dependent on his choice for A/B. Following that ability's resolution based on the following Order of Operations:
1. Immunities
2. Controlling another player's actions
3. First strike non-killing actions
4. Gaining actions
5. Losing actions
6. Redirecting / replacement effects
7. Roleblocking
8. Protecting
9. Rescuing / Reviving
10. Sending items or messages
11. First strike killing actions
12. Killing actions
13. Gathering information
14. Anything else
THEN the AB points are added or subtracted. This is important because there are apparently other abilities that cause the gain or loss of BP besides the AB game. Then people at 0 die. So TLDNR version is that the AB game happens simultaneously, but the net or loss points happen AFTER the night abilities, the choice of AB has already registered before this point.
I later asked DBS why he didn't role block Phoenix to prove his ability and DBS responded:
"I was looking to block a nightkill, not prove someone can turn this into a flipless. this question sounds bad.", but I find it really weird that he would have blocked the night kill and voted shin instead of Kaba. Then this comes up:
"there are few factors to consider that made me unsure of Kaba, especially when he wasn't present to defend himself. I ultimately looked to roleblock the BP Taker, since there was no confirmation of blocking NKs. not into dichotomy assumptions on give/take BP roles, so I wanted to see if the thief would out themselves as 'town'. Kaba appears and doesn't claim thief, so I'm more settled with him as scum."
So right here he has told two different stories on why he role blocked Kaba. AND he shouldn't have known Kaba wasn't present when he voted Shin.
Also there is another pretty heavy contradictions in his use of mechanics to push Shin and repeatedly talking about not relying on mechanics.
So all that being said, here's my main point:
DBS gave very poor, if not contradictory, reasons for choosing to role block Kaba. When you compare that to my reasons for protecting Axel (see below), it seems like the most likely scenario is that I saved Axel for the day. HOWEVER, based on Kaba's response to the pressure today, I also think it is very likely that Kaba may be scum. This would imply that DBS is town not quite thinking about this game correctly OR it was a half thought out bus on Kaba, but I think we really need to wait and see what happened to Axel and I REALLY think Axel should come to terms with his impending death.
PS, I may have ran out of time to ISO Kaba, but I'll try to later tonight or over the weekend.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Non-Staff Quasi-ModKabazame (7): TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, LnGrrrR, osieorb18, Lastwhisper, Iso, Jenna Tolaria, dawningbluesky
Azrael (1): tomsloger
tomsloger (1): Azrael
dawningbluesky (1): Shinichi
Not Voting (4): Kabazame, Axelrod, Cythare, Phoenix-Fire
With 14 alive, it’s 8 to lynch. Deadline is Wednesday, December 13th at 11.59 pm EST.
osieorb18 is V/LA until Monday
can you explain this? vvvvv
if being lynched or killed will help town's PoE, there's no reason to refuse. and Azrael isn't on my list, why do you mention him?
Be grateful, always."
I'm saying that the reasoning you expressed is either a lie or really bad and much less likely to be the source of the missing nk when compared to my superior targeting POE. You'll say I'm being arrogant but I put both of our line of thoughts regarding targets for all to read and I think the difference is clear.
That being said in the most respectful way possible, I am saying that you may not have blocked the nk from kaba, but that he may still be scum and you may still be town.
It will be easier to sort outhrough tomorrow.
Unvote too soon for L-1
1. I want you to answer my question there. why do you townfirm Axel if your message only confirms activating your ability? where does it confirm Axel's alignment?
2. blocking the BP thief was a primary concern, with NK as a 2nd. nothing guarantees how RBs work on this site, especially to a newcomer. is that or isn't that a logical conclusion?
3. blocking Kaba by interaction with Shin is quite helpful. since no kill went through, or thievery, it's safe to assume I blocked one of them. the only problem I would have is......if Kaba is the BP Taker and town - that was why I "didn't vote the person I RB'd".
4. I did factor in you blocking the NK while I blocked the thief, but it is muddied by you townfirming Axel. your ability and message clearly isn't an indication towards alignment. for this I'm willing to consider you scum, even if Axel dies.
explain to me why I should think you're town, with all the reasons given.
Be grateful, always."