So you're reasons are:
-Lurking (yes I realize there's more to it than that but if you're gonna boil it down, its cyth isn't playing. And I do not disagree think that's more likely from scum in this particular gamestate but I've also seen cyth lurk through games regardless)
-a theory that random pairings... aren't
Well well. I see you trying to discredit me. I see it failing. You already said that you believe Cythare is mafia. You're forgetting what you even need to argue. So vote Cythare and let's get this over with.
Also I don't understand the meme. But thanks for the explanation. Much better than Osieorb dodging questions. He types outlandishly, untruthfilly, and incorrectly about the things he believes strongly in, which severely weakens his credibility.
Shade... If you feel that I'm obvious scum, then vote for me.
Since I have been gone the last 4 days, anyone care to explain what makes Cyth townie? Not what makes Cyth non-scummy, but what post says, "Oh hot damn this is definitely a townie right cherr"?
I believe I asked that same question a while ago and got no answer.
Okay then the why is that he has fallen so far behind that he can't even fake participation. Each moment where he could say something relevant and forward-thinking about the current topic is shirked. I can't count the number of times I've seen a post by Cythare come up and been filled with excitement by getting insight into his reads or methods only to have him not even mention the topic at hand, or at best shrug it off. Never a stance but always an attempt to blend in. Even you with your creepy uncle vibe get engaged in the discussion.
There, in complete detail, is my reason for voting Cythare. How could you have missed the most verbose explanation of Cythares's guilt?
I agree with this wholeheartedly, and have said as much. There is an element of argument based on lurking here, but it is not the main point from you, and I apologize for suggesting as such. But I also feel beyond a reasonable doubt that Azrael is a better lynch than Cythare.
I will readily admit to hyperbole, but where am I lying?!?
* The only reason to vote Cythare that has been vocalized is his lurking.
* I am doing Azrael's bidding
* 3/4s of the players are lurkers
* half the players have lurked at one point
* "Primary" reason.
* Certainly doing something he agrees with doing, given his vote.
* Most (I admitted that 3/4 was likely hyperbole) players have lurked, not that they currently are doing so.
* See previous point. This is not false, based on the premise that one gets prodded for inactivity over 48 hours, which can be considered to be lurking.
You are bending the truth so hard it's cruel.
What's not true about what I said there? I said that to me it seemed the primary reason to vote Cythare that was expressed was lurking in #7288. The spirit of the wagon seems to be to lynch someone because of lurking, as I said in #7305, in addition to #7288.
I explained my statement that half of town is doing Az's bidding in #7287. I've reiterated that explanation here.
I've openly admitted to hyperbole in the case of the lurking statement. But the spirit of my statement was "Too many players have lurked at some point in the thread to all be scum." And when I pointed that out in #7288, I also pointed out that we should stop arguing about semantics. I've pointed out that this came from my perspective, which had been, and still is, that the wagon as a whole is more based on lurking than it is on any other, more notable scumtells. I respect that you have a distinct argument for Cythare's lynch. I am wondering, and given that I believe I have answered all of your questions (You can feel free to ask more, or ask for elaboration, if you'd like), I'd hope you would answer this one:
Why do you, personally, Jenna, believe that Azrael, the "Creepy" uncle, is not scummy?
Up until a few hours ago, I would have easily suggested him after Cythare. Now, you and Tom have shot so far ahead of him.
Okay, I'm going to dump these notes on Phoenix and LnGrrr, and then I'm probably voting for Cyth. I do not see a scenario where letting him live is a good idea. It's possibly not as informative lynch as Az would be, but also less of a gamble.
Phoenix:
Phoenix was the first person to vote for Kaba after DBS's RB claim in #5825. So that's positive. Not that a scum would be incapable of this move, but positive.
Next post of interest is #5759, this is after Terry has come in and claimed the alternate explanation for no NK. Phoenix does a logical breakdown and seems to correctly conclude that the ability Terry claimed is not consistent with what Az had claimed. He's also supporting killing an AWOL Kaba rather than waiting around for a replacement. All this is Town behavior. Basically, if Phoenix is scum he's really good. The problem is: he was tracked to the scene of a kill. And his claim is a bizarre one I've never seen. The one sort of explains the other, but it's still a fishy/odd role. This continues to be my only hesitation about him.
He does come to a conclusion I don't agree with in #6085, where he says that my dying would support Terry's claim and move Terry up in his estimation, whereas my living would move Terry down. That's backwards from how I saw it, and in hindsight, this is a position that scum could easily take, knowing that I was not going to die. He does reiterate that he was leaning towards just lynching the AWOL Kaba slot though, which is again +
He expresses suspicion of Kaba's claim in #6450, though I disagree somewhat on the basis. He seems to feel that Kaba - with that claim - ought to have counterclaimed Jenna's tracker claim. I don't know that I would have felt that way, if I had the role Kaba claimed to have.
In #6459, Kaba has just been put to L-1 by DBS, and Phoenix unvotes (but I'm not sure who he was actually voting at that moment, if it was Kaba or not). But I don't have an issue with his reasons, which appear to be that he wants to question Az. more before the day ends, get his reads, and pin him down about what he is or is not going to do that night.
Phoenix does not go for the Az derail, strongly pushing for the Kaba lynch in #6644. Which has to be positive, though I will concede that he could be looking to set up for an Az. mislynch today if he was scum. Which could be what Tom is doing also. This is the Phoenix/Tom scum-buddy conspiracy theory.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
My first note about LnGrrr isn't until #6005. This is way late in the day, after all the claims. In this post, he just says his reads are "crap" and doesn't give an opinion about anyone or any of the claims. So that wasn't great.
His first vote comes at #6038, and it's for...Azrael. It appears to be mostly based on Azrael not using his ability the night before. I'm again underwhelmed by the lack of comment on the Kaba/Terry/DBS situation. One could view this as him taking the default, "just wait and see who dies" position. Which as I've argued I think would be the most likely scum position.
LnGrr then makes his big long PBPA post on Az at #6124. I’m not super impressed by it. It’s a lot of summary and not a lot of analysis. I know I said a similar thing about Killjoy, but I still think the point has merit. There’s a little bit of analysis at the end, but it’s a very little bit for a very long post.
Not sure I buy the “confusion" of #6127 (LnGrrr is asking what happens if I die or not and who it clears).
He does, however, have the correct reaction in #6417, after Kaba makes his claim, which is Vote Kaba. This is not beyond the realm of scum bussing, but it is perhaps a little earlier than scum would want to bus, before seeing if more people were maybe going to buy Kaba's claim. It's after Terry's hard smackdown though, so less of an indicator than it might have been.
LnGrrr does, however, appear to bite on the Az. derail attempt. In post #6636 he pops back up and votes for...Iso. This is kind of a bad look. Like, he has no idea what is going on in the game. So, scum or clueless Town?
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm just beyond floored that Az is probably going to get away with another day. The sheer amount of absolute horrible play surrounding him (seriously, anyone townreading him right now should feel ashamed) just makes me die a bit inside.
You know what, cyth absolutely needs to die before lylo, but Az needs to die right now. I'm not helping lynch Cyth today. If that's what people want to do, fine, but I think it's a mistake to lynch Cyth before Az.
Iso was the Forth vote on Kaba @5844, after DBS claimed the RB. My feeling is, eh, it's okay. Not slam-dunk full of towniness, but okay.
Next note is @5945. This is after Terry's claim. Iso says he's onboard with Tom's "Lynch Az" plan (bad), but also says he kind of wants to put the Kaba slot out of it's misery (good). So this is a mixed bag.
Then I've got a note that says Iso shows how little he cares about this game @6040, and that I guess he could feel this way as either town or scum. I have no idea what Iso said in that post, and I'm not looking it up right now.
I do also concede Terry’s point that Iso’s counter-claim of Vig, but immediate retraction is something less likely to have come from scum. I don’t think it’s impossible, but less likely.
And then Iso volunteering to be the target of a role that finds out how much BP you have in #6239 is somewhat +town, though it’s not a particularly dangerous thing for a scum to suggest if they haven’t been lying about their BP status and/or have deduced there is no BP checker in this game.
Iso had what I'm calling the correct reaction to Kaba's claim, but he didn't vote for Kaba - just criticized it. I think that one's fairly NAL.
Then I don't have anything more about him. Like he was absent for the actual lynch maybe?
Iso's not making a big impression this game.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
How is whisper not protective? He literally stopped someone from dying.
And joe was the best protective role itg even if az was somehow telling the truth
extra BP does more than just saving someone. still doesn't count as a protective role.
Terry had a difficult threshold for me to consider him best protective, early on, but I agree with it for late-game - along with JoAT and vig.
Mechanically confirmed issues are largely subjective? Okay, so you are pocketed beyond rationality by Azrael.
Do scum do 1-for-1 on your site a lot? There was a comment in another game here "Scum don't do 1-for-1." Because they don't. Az doesn't want to suicide. He wants to suggest suicide as a way to manipulate people, but he will not go through with it even if every town player in the thread asks him to do so. And he wants to use that to get multiple mislynches. Which he has already partially succeeded at.
Meanwhile, I'm saying "1-for-1, lynch me, I'll flip town, and then you can go lynch Azrael." There are enough town, that as town, I don't need to be alive. But leaving scum alive as you are doing is dangerous. Being pocketed by scum is dangerous. Heck, we can skip the middleman, and just lynch Azrael. And if he flips town, then go ahead and lynch me. I'll even help you out and vote myself in either case if I know that someone who I am something like 95% sure is scum will be lynched. And you, who relies on meta... One of Azrael's primary strategies, in my experience with him, is pocketing. I've played with him before, he did the same. And he's pocketing people here. I'm honestly surprised that Iso of all people isn't seeing through it.
it's good to take a bus or pocket when you can, it helps you live longer.
and like I said, offing one of Azrael/Iso could lead to the other one dying if we lynch wrongly. what if Azrael flips town? in the offchance that BOTH Azrael and Iso are town, you're risking us killing 2 town. Iso can use vengeful on Azrael if he wants, or we collect more evidence on Azrael that isn't tonal.
and *takes knife away from you* don't do this to yourself. I've been in that situation once.... putting your life on the line for a dichotomy is not worth it.
Like. He can be scum with az. Or lngrr. Or Phoenix. Or osi. Or iso. Or me if that's what you're into.
He's like the universal solvent of team building.
It's a boring lynch that gets me nowhere.
Azrael can prove his ability and I can roleblock. even if there's no NK cuz scum wanna gambit, it's still a win for town. Cyth's role won't get us anywhere by next phase, but Azrael's role can.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I'm just beyond floored that Az is probably going to get away with another day. The sheer amount of absolute horrible play surrounding him (seriously, anyone townreading him right now should feel ashamed) just makes me die a bit inside.
You know what, cyth absolutely needs to die before lylo, but Az needs to die right now. I'm not helping lynch Cyth today. If that's what people want to do, fine, but I think it's a mistake to lynch Cyth before Az.
Azrael can prove his ability and I can roleblock. even if there's no NK cuz scum wanna gambit, it's still a win for town. Cyth's role won't get us anywhere by next phase, but Azrael's role can.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I don't have time for anything else. This night could at least potentially be interesting.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
So you're reasons are:
-Lurking (yes I realize there's more to it than that but if you're gonna boil it down, its cyth isn't playing. And I do not disagree think that's more likely from scum in this particular gamestate but I've also seen cyth lurk through games regardless)
-a theory that random pairings... aren't
Well well. I see you trying to discredit me. I see it failing. You already said that you believe Cythare is mafia. You're forgetting what you even need to argue. So vote Cythare and let's get this over with.
I mean yes I'm discrediting the non-random pairings theory it's silly
And yes cyth is probably about to flip mafia it just doesn't do anything
even if Azrael suicides, and scum gets NK through, Phoenix will lead to both of them - his ability works on few according to the Jenna's role. Jenna's role also makes Tom's claim look real.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Since I have been gone the last 4 days, anyone care to explain what makes Cyth townie? Not what makes Cyth non-scummy, but what post says, "Oh hot damn this is definitely a townie right cherr"?
At least Tom and I are arguing that Cythare is likely scum, but that Azrael is a strictly better lynch. Axel has said much the same.
I asked you a question - why are you doing the thing?
Recently I've mostly just been explaining the intention of my comments or asking other people why they are so convinced that someone several players, including myself, believe is scum, is not. As for moving goalposts or fabricating, I still have no clue what you're talking about.
As for the posts to which I am referring, I'm talking about my towards Kaba based on his EoD1 shift on me without a good explanation or a natural flow, as well as the whole "but dawn roleblocked Kaba" thing.
What about that? Dawn roleblocked Kaba, no? And it's not unreasonable to believe that Terry tried to protect Axel, who was Kaba's target.
Also, why would I vote you at this point when I've made it clear I want Cythare lynched toDay, especially given that Cythare/Az are really the only viable lynches for toDay at this point?
Also, I wouldn't say I'm "shading you without explanation", given that I'm just asking you a question.
"Why are you trying as hard as you can to discredit the townbloc?"
"You keep moving the goalposts and fabricating things."
So you're reasons are:
-Lurking (yes I realize there's more to it than that but if you're gonna boil it down, its cyth isn't playing. And I do not disagree think that's more likely from scum in this particular gamestate but I've also seen cyth lurk through games regardless)
-a theory that random pairings... aren't
Well well. I see you trying to discredit me. I see it failing. You already said that you believe Cythare is mafia. You're forgetting what you even need to argue. So vote Cythare and let's get this over with.
Also I don't understand the meme. But thanks for the explanation. Much better than Osieorb dodging questions. He types outlandishly, untruthfilly, and incorrectly about the things he believes strongly in, which severely weakens his credibility.
Shade... If you feel that I'm obvious scum, then vote for me.
O deadline! O derailment!
If everyone on the Cythare wagon believes that I'm scum, then that's enough people for a lynch. And as a player who has been more active and hopefully more influential than Cythare, I'd hope that you all would do the smart thing. Now, the smartest choice would be to lynch Az. But that doesn't seem likely.
You know what, cyth absolutely needs to die before lylo, but Az needs to die right now. I'm not helping lynch Cyth today. If that's what people want to do, fine, but I think it's a mistake to lynch Cyth before Az.
it's good to take a bus or pocket when you can, it helps you live longer.
and like I said, offing one of Azrael/Iso could lead to the other one dying if we lynch wrongly. what if Azrael flips town? in the offchance that BOTH Azrael and Iso are town, you're risking us killing 2 town. Iso can use vengeful on Azrael if he wants, or we collect more evidence on Azrael that isn't tonal.
That's only if you firmly believe that they are a dichotomy. I believe Iso is more likely town than scum, and I believe there's no way that Az is not scum. Iso's alignment has little to do with Az's alignment for me at this point beyond generic POE.
and *takes knife away from you* don't do this to yourself. I've been in that situation once.... putting your life on the line for a dichotomy is not worth it.
And *grabs another knife* it's not a dichotomy. Az is scum, Iso could be either, but is probably town, especially given the manner that Az jumped off of Iso.
Azrael can prove his ability and I can roleblock. even if there's no NK cuz scum wanna gambit, it's still a win for town. Cyth's role won't get us anywhere by next phase, but Azrael's role can.
I doubt this will realistically happen in any conclusive manner. Not after this was supposed to be the plan previously and then didn't happen.
even if Azrael suicides, and scum gets NK through, Phoenix will lead to both of them - his ability works on few according to the Jenna's role. Jenna's role also makes Tom's claim look real.
Are you seriously pushing for a Phoenix lynch toMorrow already?
Are you seriously pushing for a Phoenix lynch toMorrow already?
This way lies madness.
if you look at my previous posts to Phoenix, I never suspected him much.
it's probably 1 each out of Last/LnG and Shin/Osie. that is, if Cyth flips scum.
LnG seems content with staying out of sight.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Are you seriously pushing for a Phoenix lynch toMorrow already?
This way lies madness.
if you look at my previous posts to Phoenix, I never suspected him much.
it's probably 1 each out of Last/LnG and Shin/Osie. that is, if Cyth flips scum.
LnG seems content with staying out of sight.
Well, barring scumiso lying about bp taker, there's two scum roles that are no specific
Unless bp taker and the bp switcher are, like, a tiered scum role like joe/killjoy which would kinda make sense
been wondering about that. Shin discredited it though, said we already had 2 tiered roles to include another scum version.
well that's dumb both of them were town
Tiered town protective
Tiered town investigative
Tiered scum "killing"
Makes all kinds of sense
But in fairness most of my joat-esque experience is from mashes where usually both town and scum get a joat and a backup
And really it's not joat it's Jack of one trade but 3 different ways basically
Kj kind of joat. Two investigative and a protective (though you won't call it that lol)
Cyth flips scum rolecop. Claiming weak investigative makes sense. If they don't have that maybe he really is a watcher of some kind scum definitely some kind of info role in a no vanilla setup.
Az scum joat and gets to use it again
Lngrr...
Could also be rolecop/whatever. Not sure about another manipulative kabas was pretty good. Maybe az gets a one shot rb or vanallizer or something.
Possibly a disinformation role of some kind. Godfather, framer, something to do with flips since Phoenix is town in this scenario.
Actually Phoenix's role on something like sympathizer/lost wolf/traitor is... not exactly likely but if true would go in the "I wish I thought of that" file but
Actually Phoenix's role on something like sympathizer/lost wolf/traitor is... not exactly likely but if true would go in the "I wish I thought of that" file
what do you think of Axel's "why didn't Phoenix give Osie 3 BP" theory?
if sympathizer, then Phoenix could've done that but claimed otherwise. it works..
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Actually Phoenix's role on something like sympathizer/lost wolf/traitor is... not exactly likely but if true would go in the "I wish I thought of that" file
what do you think of Axel's "why didn't Phoenix give Osie 3 BP" theory?
if sympathizer, then Phoenix could've done that but claimed otherwise. it works..
I don't hate it...
Them talking last night and now being an actual team would be...
Rad, actually that's super cool
But if his role is real/he didn't kill dv it also takes away the best/~only reason to think he's scum in the first place so I think we might be in some kind of circle
Jenna: scum tried to kill via bp switch. Also proven tracker barring scum with Phoenix which makes no goddamn sense
Whisper: saved Jenna
Axel is just town
Shin... let Dawn block kaba. And let whisper save jenna. If his role is real. Also hard unaligned with az from az's bull***** dichotomy on, like, d2
Iso maybe got targeted by bp taker. He did townread megs/cyth for awhile but I still don't think he makes sense with az. Vengeful claim always gets lynched in final 3 which probably makes him less likely to claim it as scum.
Osi... feels town to me. I've liked a lot of his thoughts really over the course of this game. But... Yeah there's signs if someone is pocketing me ATP it's probably him.
Az has been pushing me over scum for weeks now. Also pushed Jenna, grape, iso. He did try to protect kj but, not as vehemently as he tried to protect kaba. He's also claimed doc, when we've got two full protectives and sortakinda protectives in dawn/grape/kj. He's also claimed to be going towards suicide and clearly hasn't been.
Cyth... sure. No unalignments. Not playing the game. Superfluous role. Reaction to kaba *****.
Phoenix... got tracked to the n1 kill
Lngrr's role has only been used in ways scum would know the answer. Thought his early play was scummy but have been ignoring him for awhile after liking his reaction to pressure and sort of floating ever since.
Probably 3 scum in those names.
Chance of osi/iso but well less likely. Shin I really want to clear but can't quite do it yet
Passively visits players who die to collect role info for the thread.
This is perfect. We're all claimed so Phoenix's role is essentially useless. Axelrod can self redirect it and if Phoenix's role is true, the dead's role won't appear, plus I suspect Axelrod's role will be revealed in its place. Two more clears? Yes please.
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModCythare (5): Lastwhisper, Jenna Tolaria, dawningbluesky, Iso, Azrael
Azrael (4): tomsloger, Phoenix-Fire, osieorb18, Shinichi
Not Voting (3): Cythare, Axelrod, LnGrrrR
With 12 alive, it’s 7 to lynch. Deadline is Wednesday, December 27th at 11.59 pm EST.
Phoenix:
Phoenix was the first person to vote for Kaba after DBS's RB claim in #5825. So that's positive. Not that a scum would be incapable of this move, but positive.
Next post of interest is #5759, this is after Terry has come in and claimed the alternate explanation for no NK. Phoenix does a logical breakdown and seems to correctly conclude that the ability Terry claimed is not consistent with what Az had claimed. He's also supporting killing an AWOL Kaba rather than waiting around for a replacement. All this is Town behavior. Basically, if Phoenix is scum he's really good. The problem is: he was tracked to the scene of a kill. And his claim is a bizarre one I've never seen. The one sort of explains the other, but it's still a fishy/odd role. This continues to be my only hesitation about him.
He does come to a conclusion I don't agree with in #6085, where he says that my dying would support Terry's claim and move Terry up in his estimation, whereas my living would move Terry down. That's backwards from how I saw it, and in hindsight, this is a position that scum could easily take, knowing that I was not going to die. He does reiterate that he was leaning towards just lynching the AWOL Kaba slot though, which is again +
He expresses suspicion of Kaba's claim in #6450, though I disagree somewhat on the basis. He seems to feel that Kaba - with that claim - ought to have counterclaimed Jenna's tracker claim. I don't know that I would have felt that way, if I had the role Kaba claimed to have.
In #6459, Kaba has just been put to L-1 by DBS, and Phoenix unvotes (but I'm not sure who he was actually voting at that moment, if it was Kaba or not). But I don't have an issue with his reasons, which appear to be that he wants to question Az. more before the day ends, get his reads, and pin him down about what he is or is not going to do that night.
Phoenix does not go for the Az derail, strongly pushing for the Kaba lynch in #6644. Which has to be positive, though I will concede that he could be looking to set up for an Az. mislynch today if he was scum. Which could be what Tom is doing also. This is the Phoenix/Tom scum-buddy conspiracy theory.
My first note about LnGrrr isn't until #6005. This is way late in the day, after all the claims. In this post, he just says his reads are "crap" and doesn't give an opinion about anyone or any of the claims. So that wasn't great.
His first vote comes at #6038, and it's for...Azrael. It appears to be mostly based on Azrael not using his ability the night before. I'm again underwhelmed by the lack of comment on the Kaba/Terry/DBS situation. One could view this as him taking the default, "just wait and see who dies" position. Which as I've argued I think would be the most likely scum position.
LnGrr then makes his big long PBPA post on Az at #6124. I’m not super impressed by it. It’s a lot of summary and not a lot of analysis. I know I said a similar thing about Killjoy, but I still think the point has merit. There’s a little bit of analysis at the end, but it’s a very little bit for a very long post.
Not sure I buy the “confusion" of #6127 (LnGrrr is asking what happens if I die or not and who it clears).
He does, however, have the correct reaction in #6417, after Kaba makes his claim, which is Vote Kaba. This is not beyond the realm of scum bussing, but it is perhaps a little earlier than scum would want to bus, before seeing if more people were maybe going to buy Kaba's claim. It's after Terry's hard smackdown though, so less of an indicator than it might have been.
LnGrrr does, however, appear to bite on the Az. derail attempt. In post #6636 he pops back up and votes for...Iso. This is kind of a bad look. Like, he has no idea what is going on in the game. So, scum or clueless Town?
You know what, cyth absolutely needs to die before lylo, but Az needs to die right now. I'm not helping lynch Cyth today. If that's what people want to do, fine, but I think it's a mistake to lynch Cyth before Az.
Iso was the Forth vote on Kaba @5844, after DBS claimed the RB. My feeling is, eh, it's okay. Not slam-dunk full of towniness, but okay.
Next note is @5945. This is after Terry's claim. Iso says he's onboard with Tom's "Lynch Az" plan (bad), but also says he kind of wants to put the Kaba slot out of it's misery (good). So this is a mixed bag.
Then I've got a note that says Iso shows how little he cares about this game @6040, and that I guess he could feel this way as either town or scum. I have no idea what Iso said in that post, and I'm not looking it up right now.
I do also concede Terry’s point that Iso’s counter-claim of Vig, but immediate retraction is something less likely to have come from scum. I don’t think it’s impossible, but less likely.
And then Iso volunteering to be the target of a role that finds out how much BP you have in #6239 is somewhat +town, though it’s not a particularly dangerous thing for a scum to suggest if they haven’t been lying about their BP status and/or have deduced there is no BP checker in this game.
Iso had what I'm calling the correct reaction to Kaba's claim, but he didn't vote for Kaba - just criticized it. I think that one's fairly NAL.
Then I don't have anything more about him. Like he was absent for the actual lynch maybe?
Iso's not making a big impression this game.
Terry had a difficult threshold for me to consider him best protective, early on, but I agree with it for late-game - along with JoAT and vig.
it's good to take a bus or pocket when you can, it helps you live longer.
and like I said, offing one of Azrael/Iso could lead to the other one dying if we lynch wrongly. what if Azrael flips town? in the offchance that BOTH Azrael and Iso are town, you're risking us killing 2 town. Iso can use vengeful on Azrael if he wants, or we collect more evidence on Azrael that isn't tonal.
and *takes knife away from you* don't do this to yourself. I've been in that situation once.... putting your life on the line for a dichotomy is not worth it.
I'm kinda running on town/scum possibilities for everyone. out of them all, Cyth seems like the best lynch.
I have mixed feelings about it.
Azrael can prove his ability and I can roleblock. even if there's no NK cuz scum wanna gambit, it's still a win for town. Cyth's role won't get us anywhere by next phase, but Azrael's role can.
Be grateful, always."
here:
Be grateful, always."
I don't have time for anything else. This night could at least potentially be interesting.
Ok phoenix i understand ur pain but regardless cythare is just as scummy.
Sigh
And if cyth is town.... my reads don't change at all
And yes cyth is probably about to flip mafia it just doesn't do anything
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
Hes protective based on how he uses the ability, like how he saved jenna
Be grateful, always."
I still won't consider that a protective.
Be grateful, always."
Last/Shin/LnG are the only ones who claimed setup-specific roles
something to think about
Be grateful, always."
Much like lngrr (if real which, idk) is a setup-specific investigative and bp taker is a setup-specific killing role
And kaba sort of was
At least Tom and I are arguing that Cythare is likely scum, but that Azrael is a strictly better lynch. Axel has said much the same.
Recently I've mostly just been explaining the intention of my comments or asking other people why they are so convinced that someone several players, including myself, believe is scum, is not. As for moving goalposts or fabricating, I still have no clue what you're talking about.
What about that? Dawn roleblocked Kaba, no? And it's not unreasonable to believe that Terry tried to protect Axel, who was Kaba's target.
"Why are you trying as hard as you can to discredit the townbloc?"
"You keep moving the goalposts and fabricating things."
Nobody is trying to discredit you.
If everyone on the Cythare wagon believes that I'm scum, then that's enough people for a lynch. And as a player who has been more active and hopefully more influential than Cythare, I'd hope that you all would do the smart thing. Now, the smartest choice would be to lynch Az. But that doesn't seem likely.
I think I'm also going to get behind this.
That's only if you firmly believe that they are a dichotomy. I believe Iso is more likely town than scum, and I believe there's no way that Az is not scum. Iso's alignment has little to do with Az's alignment for me at this point beyond generic POE.
And *grabs another knife* it's not a dichotomy. Az is scum, Iso could be either, but is probably town, especially given the manner that Az jumped off of Iso.
I doubt this will realistically happen in any conclusive manner. Not after this was supposed to be the plan previously and then didn't happen.
Not remotely.
Yeah…
At least scum was probably lynched.
We can only hope.
Are you seriously pushing for a Phoenix lynch toMorrow already?
This way lies madness.
Be grateful, always."
Unless bp taker and the bp switcher are, like, a tiered scum role like joe/killjoy which would kinda make sense
it's probably 1 each out of Last/LnG and Shin/Osie. that is, if Cyth flips scum.
LnG seems content with staying out of sight.
Be grateful, always."
It's prolly az though based on bp game results
been wondering about that. Shin discredited it though, said we already had 2 tiered roles to include another scum version.
Be grateful, always."
Or just LnG + Az.
Tiered town protective
Tiered town investigative
Tiered scum "killing"
Makes all kinds of sense
But in fairness most of my joat-esque experience is from mashes where usually both town and scum get a joat and a backup
And really it's not joat it's Jack of one trade but 3 different ways basically
Kj kind of joat. Two investigative and a protective (though you won't call it that lol)
And my guess is strongman/ninja type thing
Shin is sort of a strongman granter as claimed, which is maybe noteworthy
Not even I would base anything off of that particular setupgaming though
Cyth flips scum rolecop. Claiming weak investigative makes sense. If they don't have that maybe he really is a watcher of some kind scum definitely some kind of info role in a no vanilla setup.
Az scum joat and gets to use it again
Lngrr...
Could also be rolecop/whatever. Not sure about another manipulative kabas was pretty good. Maybe az gets a one shot rb or vanallizer or something.
Possibly a disinformation role of some kind. Godfather, framer, something to do with flips since Phoenix is town in this scenario.
Actually Phoenix's role on something like sympathizer/lost wolf/traitor is... not exactly likely but if true would go in the "I wish I thought of that" file but
Az/cyth/lngrr
Be grateful, always."
if sympathizer, then Phoenix could've done that but claimed otherwise. it works..
Be grateful, always."
Them talking last night and now being an actual team would be...
Rad, actually that's super cool
But if his role is real/he didn't kill dv it also takes away the best/~only reason to think he's scum in the first place so I think we might be in some kind of circle
Jenna: scum tried to kill via bp switch. Also proven tracker barring scum with Phoenix which makes no goddamn sense
Whisper: saved Jenna
Axel is just town
Shin... let Dawn block kaba. And let whisper save jenna. If his role is real. Also hard unaligned with az from az's bull***** dichotomy on, like, d2
Iso maybe got targeted by bp taker. He did townread megs/cyth for awhile but I still don't think he makes sense with az. Vengeful claim always gets lynched in final 3 which probably makes him less likely to claim it as scum.
Osi... feels town to me. I've liked a lot of his thoughts really over the course of this game. But... Yeah there's signs if someone is pocketing me ATP it's probably him.
Leaving:
Az
Cyth
Phoenix
Lngrr
Be grateful, always."
Cyth... sure. No unalignments. Not playing the game. Superfluous role. Reaction to kaba *****.
Phoenix... got tracked to the n1 kill
Lngrr's role has only been used in ways scum would know the answer. Thought his early play was scummy but have been ignoring him for awhile after liking his reaction to pressure and sort of floating ever since.
Probably 3 scum in those names.
Chance of osi/iso but well less likely. Shin I really want to clear but can't quite do it yet
Except I'll ally Iso with the expectation he Ally back. Getting him to 7 makes him a 2-for-1.
And lastly I could use your BP, LastWhisper, to protect against shenanigans again.
I expect Osieorb to open a chat with someone clear, if only to prove he's not doing shenanigans.
This is perfect. We're all claimed so Phoenix's role is essentially useless. Axelrod can self redirect it and if Phoenix's role is true, the dead's role won't appear, plus I suspect Axelrod's role will be revealed in its place. Two more clears? Yes please.
Okay so it doesn't instantly reveal Axelrod, but it should prevent the dead's abilities from being revealed.