-I dont want or feel the need to lynch you anymore just saying lol
-I don't think we should leave a scum read alive just to look for another that may flip either or.
-I want to look into him and tom after azreal gets lynched. Curious as to why Cythare thinks we should be focusing on his/her lack of content and just ignore the fact that said person had a week to vote but choose not to.
-So do u not suspect azreal anymore whats up with that? Unless your applying there is 5 scum lol
I'm coming around to the idea that this setup is whack, which could explain why you're a 'roleblocker' variant along with me.
still find it hard to think Azrael would claim doc first and post walls/take firm stands to draw attention to himself, as scum, unless he's one of the bravest scum we've ever seen lmao.
since Kaba's flip confirms you're wrong about me, it's best for you to assume that you're wrong about Azrael too. re-evaluate. definitely think you should look into Cythare.
Dawn
There is no new evidence, that I can provide for Az's lynch, all cards are on the table...
Lets just hope ur gamestate reads are correct...
my PoE/reads are progressing at a good rate, so I'm sure it'll sort itself out without us doing much. and thanks for the answer, not much reason to lynch Azrael then (since it's tonal and subjective).
Oh no, I get that I'm in the POE for sure, I'm just surprised by voting for me because I'm a nonvoter, as opposed to my lack of content. It seems like lazy and also disignenuous - I wasn't pushing Shinichi and Azrael over Kabazame. I was looking at Azrael and Shinichi before Kabazame showed up, looked extremely questionable, and then disappeared again, and by the time I came back, the wagon had shifted over to Kabazame. I stated that I was still interested in an Azrael lynch (and still am), but also acknowledged that Kabazame was a good wagon. I never ended up voting after my unvote, but by the time I posted again, Kabazame had already been hammered.
It's definitely a bad look, but there's no reason to lie about how it went down to make me look even worse.
How is it lazy? So should we just ignore the fact u didnt vote? Is that what your trying to imply? Dont forget the person that was lynched flipped scum so makes sense that DBS is questioning your lack of vote placement. AS well I do believe you were pushing me quite hard why? You had plenty of time to hammer that lynch he was hovering between l2 and l1 for atleast 7 days.
What lie are you refering too?
The lie that I was pushing you and Azrael "over Kabazame"/as a counterwagon to Kabazame, when discussion and wagons of you two happened well before the Kabazame wagon got rolling. I already answered why I was pushing you hard yesterday: here you go.
When I posted here last Monday, Kabazame had no votes. He was not a wagon. Between then and my next post, one formed, but I was still focused on you and Azrael, and chose to just respond to you with the intention of circling back later (which I obviously didn't do). To say that I was "pushing you over Kaba" is a very skewed view of what went down.
Oh no, I get that I'm in the POE for sure, I'm just surprised by voting for me because I'm a nonvoter, as opposed to my lack of content. It seems like lazy and also disignenuous - I wasn't pushing Shinichi and Azrael over Kabazame. I was looking at Azrael and Shinichi before Kabazame showed up, looked extremely questionable, and then disappeared again, and by the time I came back, the wagon had shifted over to Kabazame. I stated that I was still interested in an Azrael lynch (and still am), but also acknowledged that Kabazame was a good wagon. I never ended up voting after my unvote, but by the time I posted again, Kabazame had already been hammered.
It's definitely a bad look, but there's no reason to lie about how it went down to make me look even worse.
How is it lazy? So should we just ignore the fact u didnt vote? Is that what your trying to imply? Dont forget the person that was lynched flipped scum so makes sense that DBS is questioning your lack of vote placement. AS well I do believe you were pushing me quite hard why? You had plenty of time to hammer that lynch he was hovering between l2 and l1 for atleast 7 days.
What lie are you refering too?
The lie that I was pushing you and Azrael "over Kabazame"/as a counterwagon to Kabazame, when discussion and wagons of you two happened well before the Kabazame wagon got rolling. I already answered why I was pushing you hard yesterday: here you go.
When I posted here last Monday, Kabazame had no votes. He was not a wagon. Between then and my next post, one formed, but I was still focused on you and Azrael, and chose to just respond to you with the intention of circling back later (which I obviously didn't do). To say that I was "pushing you over Kaba" is a very skewed view of what went down.
And yet when you finally do show up, you're still only posting to Shinichi. I feel the same way about you that I do about Azrael: every post you make is so underwhelming, so unexpected, always interacting with Those Most Likely Town. The least valuable thing you can be doing is talking to Shinichi and Dawningbluesky and that's all you're doing. I can't study your behavior of you persist in only conversing with them.
why are you letting az talk his way into another night to do nefarious things?
hes outed
don't think he's outed any more than Phoenix.
Okay enough.
You scum read on me is stupid, and now you're basically confirmed town so I'm going to address you directly.
You don't like my role, fine, but you keep saying that I'm scum/have to be scum and you've literally made no other argument than my role. I'm tired of being smeared, shaded, generally crapped on by you (and others) so either case me or shut up.
If you think that I'm "outed" the same as Az then you have no idea how to actually understand the game state; he's caught, he claimed doc while we have a literal doc flip, he's been shady about this whole suicide shtick (heck maybe he has some benefit from being betrayed), and he very nearly pushed yesterday's lynch away from confirmed scum (scum who basically clears you btw). At one point he actually had kaba down to 3 away from being lynched with a good chance to make it more.
If I had to come up with a setup explanation, I'd hazard a guess that the mods felt additional protection roles was good compensation for the scum facing down 5 scum in a 17 player game - especially if the neutral is a killing role.
Are you suggesting that the scum team is 5 people or something else? Please just reword this whole paragraph.
And yet when you finally do show up, you're still only posting to Shinichi. I feel the same way about you that I do about Azrael: every post you make is so underwhelming, so unexpected, always interacting with Those Most Likely Town. The least valuable thing you can be doing is talking to Shinichi and Dawningbluesky and that's all you're doing. I can't study your behavior of you persist in only conversing with them.
Yeah, that's fair. I did try engaging with Terry a bit yesterday, but that doesn't really help much now. I'll do what I can to branch out.
Az, it's disingenuous to imply that there's only 1-2 small reasons for scumreading you. I went over a bunch of this in nightchat.
You've changed your style around several times, quite possibly at provocation of in-game happenings.
If that's even true, that comes more likely from scum than town because...?
What was that "pass-through" style that I supposedly had that you were alluding to?
Quote from osieorb18 »
You've spoken out against now-confirmed town, and spoken for now-confirmed scum.
Which many other players have done. Which is a scum tell if it is done for the wrong reasons, or in the wrong manner. Is your argument that people who do it loudly and obviously are more guilty than people who push the wagon hard and then keep their vote off at end of day, or is your argument that my reads have been wrong more often than other players'? Because there's a been a whole lot of wrong to go around, seeing as we've only nailed one scum.
Quote from osie »
You've pushed town away from your surest lynch.
No, Osie. We dealt with this in night chat already too. I said probably 4-5x in thread that I was equally happy to kill either of them. Go back and read it.
Quote from Osie »
You've suggested a suicide, already concerning, and then both not followed through with plans to set that up and waffled on it.
You're not parsing me, after I've addressed this multiple times in thread. I offered to die if it was what a majority of the town wanted. The majority of the town wasn't saying go off yourself immediately. Today, that sounds like what the town is saying.
My concern was with staying within range to kill myself quickly. Because of someone else's unexpected action, I was not in range, but I am now in range. This is moot. With the amount of pure hatred that Jenna has sent my way, I would not in a million years have anticipated that she would actually give me points.
Quote from osie »
You cite "doing a lot of work" as a major reason people should townread you.
That's not quite it. I think if you read my body of work, you can clearly see a townie thought process, and there is a TON of material where you can see that at work. If you do your homework.
Quote from Osie »
You've done a lot of linking of people in a manner that suggests you're trying to link mislynches.
That doesn't make a bit of sense. If I'm saying people are scum together, but I'm wrong on one of them, the town isn't going to follow up on me being wrong...by lynching the other half of the alleged pair. They're going to throw rotten vegetables at me, and stop at one, unless I make an independent case. Did you hit your head when you wrote this?
Az- These two guys are scum together!
Town - Ok, let's lynch one, and then the other!
Az- Oh, darn, I was wrong.
Town - Well, he was wrong about those two being a linked pair, why don't we go kill the other person anyways, lolz!
Like, is that the plan? *level look*
[quote=Osie]
You were telling me I needed to think about my reads and not be afraid of experience. Well, I'm not afraid of your experience. I just think you're caught scum.
Ok. I'm glad you're not afraid. As someone who knows that you're not reading me correctly, what I can do in this position is explain to you where and why you are misreading me.
There are superficial cases, and then there are cases. There's plenty of players here who know the difference, and can do a decent case, but we're not seeing them. Cases that are thorough, cover the players' entire posting history, and weighs the motivations for that players' posts from both a townie and a scum perspective. Those are the cases that maximize your chance of reading someone correctly.
It is not a score-card on how well the player is doing. And it is not a one-sided affair, that simply sets out why a player's actions fit well for scum. You look for how well it fits either narrative. Otherwise, you're like the prosecutor that presumes your client is guilty and is looking only for the evidence that supports that assertion.
If I had to come up with a setup explanation, I'd hazard a guess that the mods felt additional protection roles was good compensation for the town facing down 5 scum in a 17 player game - especially if the neutral is a killing role.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Okay enough.
You scum read on me is stupid, and now you're basically confirmed town so I'm going to address you directly.
You don't like my role, fine, but you keep saying that I'm scum/have to be scum and you've literally made no other argument than my role. I'm tired of being smeared, shaded, generally crapped on by you (and others) so either case me or shut up.
If you think that I'm "outed" the same as Az then you have no idea how to actually understand the game state; he's caught, he claimed doc while we have a literal doc flip, he's been shady about this whole suicide shtick (heck maybe he has some benefit from being betrayed), and he very nearly pushed yesterday's lynch away from confirmed scum (scum who basically clears you btw). At one point he actually had kaba down to 3 away from being lynched with a good chance to make it more.
that was sarcasm. I can believe your role fits into a setup that's crazy enough to have 2 'doctors'. didn't notice Tom's scumteam? your 'being outed' isn't exclusively coming from me. you were tracked to the kill, and your role is the weirdest I ever heard, so why not?
and you should deal with having ***** thrown at you, it's all part of the game. heck I had to deal with it for weeks. confirmed me can now complain believably.
I would like a logical explanation for Azrael doing what he did. trying to build a case on a 'teammate' about to be lynched, when his reputation is rockbottom, is one of the most self-defeating strategies ever.....or genius if we love WIFOM situations. least he could do was drop out of the scene and let another teammate do the talking. he was the only one doing the talking, all the way until now, which sure sounds like a good way to out himself and lose. playing against wincon? what is the motive?
there's 2 teams I'm considering for now, with room for adjustment:
1: Azrael/Phoenix/Cyth
2: Tom/Shin/Cyth
- #1 if we lynch off setupgaming. maybe Shin instead of Cyth, for 'unproven' vs 'proven' RB claims. (can someone explain to me why there can be 2 RBers but not 2 docs? if you wanna count me as protective then the other RB/doc should be lynched anyways.) this seems like the easiest option so far, and maybe too easy.
- #2 was my decision when I RB'd Kaba. Phoenix included.
- in the offchance that Azrael is town, we get 2 protectives for N4. he also gets to use up a shot and kill himself if we want. we can prove him before the next phase, so let's do better with our time.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Tom, I think you've seen me play scum only once, and I was a serial killer that game. I won, without ever seriously being on the chopping block.
Do you think this is what my mafia game looks like?
I think your closest model from my meta to what is going on here is the infamous champs game. Where I confidently mislynched five times in a row, but at least the town's analysts looked at me hard enough to know they were all five honest mistakes.
The good news is, after mislynching five times, I was only one off in pinpointing the rest of the scum. Yay! : (
Like I was saying to Osie last night, I think I seriously underestimated how much of my solve game one, day one, seven times in a row mode was based on meta. Without it, all my assumptions about who can or cannot be faking tells, who has or does not have.a scummy baseline - all that is just sailing through icebergs at midnight without a searchlight. That's what's going on here with all these players I don't know - and who don't know me.
-I dont want or feel the need to lynch you anymore just saying lol
-I don't think we should leave a scum read alive just to look for another that may flip either or.
-I want to look into him and tom after azreal gets lynched. Curious as to why Cythare thinks we should be focusing on his/her lack of content and just ignore the fact that said person had a week to vote but choose not to.
-So do u not suspect azreal anymore whats up with that? Unless your applying there is 5 scum lol
I'm coming around to the idea that this setup is whack, which could explain why you're a 'roleblocker' variant along with me.
still find it hard to think Azrael would claim doc first and post walls/take firm stands to draw attention to himself, as scum, unless he's one of the bravest scum we've ever seen lmao.
since Kaba's flip confirms you're wrong about me, it's best for you to assume that you're wrong about Azrael too. re-evaluate. definitely think you should look into Cythare.
Dawn
There is no new evidence, that I can provide for Az's lynch, all cards are on the table...
Lets just hope ur gamestate reads are correct...
my PoE/reads are progressing at a good rate, so I'm sure it'll sort itself out without us doing much. and thanks for the answer, not much reason to lynch Azrael then (since it's tonal and subjective).
why are you letting az talk his way into another night to do nefarious things?
hes outed
don't think he's outed any more than Phoenix.
This setup is wack i mean the mechanic alone makes it wack just saying lol. I dont see how posting walls or the fact that he claimed doc has anything to do with his alignment though. What I dont understand is how kaba flip makes u think az is town but makes you think cyt is scum? One if not both were trying to get us off the train, while the other was sloghtly advocated kaba as scum but still choose to avoid the train.
Oh no, I get that I'm in the POE for sure, I'm just surprised by voting for me because I'm a nonvoter, as opposed to my lack of content. It seems like lazy and also disignenuous - I wasn't pushing Shinichi and Azrael over Kabazame. I was looking at Azrael and Shinichi before Kabazame showed up, looked extremely questionable, and then disappeared again, and by the time I came back, the wagon had shifted over to Kabazame. I stated that I was still interested in an Azrael lynch (and still am), but also acknowledged that Kabazame was a good wagon. I never ended up voting after my unvote, but by the time I posted again, Kabazame had already been hammered.
It's definitely a bad look, but there's no reason to lie about how it went down to make me look even worse.
How is it lazy? So should we just ignore the fact u didnt vote? Is that what your trying to imply? Dont forget the person that was lynched flipped scum so makes sense that DBS is questioning your lack of vote placement. AS well I do believe you were pushing me quite hard why? You had plenty of time to hammer that lynch he was hovering between l2 and l1 for atleast 7 days.
What lie are you refering too?
The lie that I was pushing you and Azrael "over Kabazame"/as a counterwagon to Kabazame, when discussion and wagons of you two happened well before the Kabazame wagon got rolling. I already answered why I was pushing you hard yesterday: here you go.
When I posted here last Monday, Kabazame had no votes. He was not a wagon. Between then and my next post, one formed, but I was still focused on you and Azrael, and chose to just respond to you with the intention of circling back later (which I obviously didn't do). To say that I was "pushing you over Kaba" is a very skewed view of what went down.
Maybe a week is a stretch but the kaba train lasted a while, it lasted long enough to where you would be prodded for the posting rule so you must have seen it.Also why did you choose just to respond to me it makes no sense when i wasnt even the person taht was going to be lynched. I mean you did say u were more focused on replying to me when u did have the time to check the thread so its not as skewed as you want us to believe my friend. I wouldnt say it was a push for a counterwagon its just your focus wasnt where it was suppose to be is the problem.
why are you letting az talk his way into another night to do nefarious things?
hes outed
don't think he's outed any more than Phoenix.
Okay enough.
You scum read on me is stupid, and now you're basically confirmed town so I'm going to address you directly.
You don't like my role, fine, but you keep saying that I'm scum/have to be scum and you've literally made no other argument than my role. I'm tired of being smeared, shaded, generally crapped on by you (and others) so either case me or shut up.
If you think that I'm "outed" the same as Az then you have no idea how to actually understand the game state; he's caught, he claimed doc while we have a literal doc flip, he's been shady about this whole suicide shtick (heck maybe he has some benefit from being betrayed), and he very nearly pushed yesterday's lynch away from confirmed scum (scum who basically clears you btw). At one point he actually had kaba down to 3 away from being lynched with a good chance to make it more.
If I had to come up with a setup explanation, I'd hazard a guess that the mods felt additional protection roles was good compensation for the scum facing down 5 scum in a 17 player game - especially if the neutral is a killing role.
Are you suggesting that the scum team is 5 people or something else? Please just reword this whole paragraph.
Again nurse does not mean doctor, the abilities tom has clarely point towards bodyguard. Second the same reason we are lynching azreal is why you may be next because you expect us to just leave you alone due to your role it how helpful it is to town. I wish I could block it but I was told by cross and bursama that I cant block passives sadly enough.
Why does she need to case you? Espically since your the one that said hey dont lynch me my role helps town.
If I had to come up with a setup explanation, I'd hazard a guess that the mods felt additional protection roles was good compensation for the town facing down 5 scum in a 17 player game - especially if the neutral is a killing role.
Yet you seem to be the only person to think this why? I mean this is your way of justifying how your role must be town am i right?
Tom, I think you've seen me play scum only once, and I was a serial killer that game. I won, without ever seriously being on the chopping block.
Do you think this is what my mafia game looks like?
I think your closest model from my meta to what is going on here is the infamous champs game. Where I confidently mislynched five times in a row, but at least the town's analysts looked at me hard enough to know they were all five honest mistakes.
The good news is, after mislynching five times, I was only one off in pinpointing the rest of the scum. Yay! : (
Like I was saying to Osie last night, I think I seriously underestimated how much of my solve game one, day one, seven times in a row mode was based on meta. Without it, all my assumptions about who can or cannot be faking tells, who has or does not have.a scummy baseline - all that is just sailing through icebergs at midnight without a searchlight. That's what's going on here with all these players I don't know - and who don't know me.
I don't know why your trying to use a past game as a way to say hey "I cant be scum this game so suck it". So how many times should we allow a mislynch before we say hey this got basically got 5 town lynched and then avoided the actual scum train. Again I don't care about your meta you've just been super scummy and trying to get us off of the kaba train says alot now that we know he is scum.
Shin, do you kill every player who tries to push people off of scum wagons? Because that would be a lot of dead bodies.
Or do you just try to kill the people who are extremely loudly wrong about it? Because as we all know, being loudly wrong is what scum are all about.
Apparently I'm so next level, I was banking on wine to get me out of this the whole time, or if you're tom, you think counter wagoning a guy at minus 2 or minus 1 is how you "cause damage". Surefire high percentage scum plays, right there. Bow before my scum genius and brilliant foresight.
Instead of endlessly repeating how caught you think I am, and how obvious a scum I am, why don't you go back through my history and shoe me all the other ways i'm clearly scum you haven't found yet. I'm sure, being such an obvious and inept caught scum player, this won't be difficult for you to make your case even stronger than it is already. Or, you can just keep complacently regurgitating all the scum talking points, same as the failed KJ wagon. You know, whatever works.
This setup is wack i mean the mechanic alone makes it wack just saying lol. I dont see how posting walls or the fact that he claimed doc has anything to do with his alignment though. What I dont understand is how kaba flip makes u think az is town but makes you think cyt is scum? One if not both were trying to get us off the train, while the other was sloghtly advocated kaba as scum but still choose to avoid the train.
He is quite outted though, why leave az alone?
scum strat is about blending in. you don't see the wall-posting as AI?
why Azrael town: blocked Kaba with a non-Azrael team. flip proved it. so yeah, read just got stronger.
why Cyth scum: didn't express strong opinions on the impending scum lynch. Azrael was vocal even if he was wrong tbf.
Why does a person have to bus as scum it doesnt make sense?
because they're a team?
1. Kaba waits for a bus.
2. Azrael tries to kick votes off the train.
3. Kaba flips scum.
4. let's all lynch Azrael.
scum knew Terry was town, and that Dawn RB'd the kill, so they knew Kaba was trapped. why would scum!Azrael bother to save a teammate caught red-handed? the logical conclusion is that scum bussed or stayed away from the lynch. I would like to hear a logical counter-argument now, thanks.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
No but there are alot of factors surrounding your alignment. Its not like we just decided today to scum read you people have seen your malicious way's since day 2. Either way its wifom because so what is 1 out of 5 times I am wrong in that situation should i just ignore it this time? You have so much wine its crazy your suicide plan is all wine.
I mean if it was up to me Dawn would have been dead already but i see now that would have been a mistake so ya I know people can be wrong, but when someone decides to say hey lets sto this hammer just for us to find out the person who was hammered was scum it says alot.
I mean if ur ok suiciding then this should be a no brainer for you
@Phraze
Scum can be ballsy... what do you see as his reason for defending someone that was obviously scum... all he managed to do yesterday was confuse the **** out of us...
Seriously tho, bussing, defending... all mean nothing as they stand a lone... b/c any of those can show that your scum if you do them for the wrong reasons...
Defending or bussing... if you cant give decent reasoning for either, then your gunna be scum read...
Can I just say that this, Dawn vs Shin fiesta, has been convoluting the posts and pushing many of the important posts out of the limelight...
I am making an ultimatum here, in which, either today or tmr... shin or dawn has to go, because this cycle is just gunna keep repeating every day
@dbs i dont understand why ur letting wifom situation turn into he has to be town situations. What do you even mean by he blocked kaba? So ok so scum has to bus, what about the situation where said player is good and can easily scapegoat is way out of a lynch which is exactly what azreal is tryiing to do at this point.
If that's even true, that comes more likely from scum than town because…?
By exploiting confusion. By switching at convenient moments which perpetuate the information differences in the game. If there's ever gonna be any progress...
Is your argument that people who do it loudly and obviously are more guilty than people who push the wagon hard and then keep their vote off at end of day, or is your argument that my reads have been wrong more often than other players'?
Strawman.
My argument is that it seems reasonably likely that you have done it for the sake of pushing a scum agenda, based on timing and the specific context of repeated instances.
No, Osie. We dealt with this in night chat already too. I said probably 4-5x in thread that I was equally happy to kill either of them. Go back and read it.
"Actions speak louder than words?"
Even outside of the time in thread after Day 1, you pushed a whole heck of a lot harder on Iso than on Grapefruit overall.
You're not parsing me, after I've addressed this multiple times in thread. I offered to die if it was what a majority of the town wanted. The majority of the town wasn't saying go off yourself immediately. Today, that sounds like what the town is saying.
If you're town, defend yourself rather than fearmongering and giving up. If you're scum, I don't care as much, but I would still hope that you would try to show that rather than slimy AtE and wine.
That's not quite it. I think if you read my body of work, you can clearly see a townie thought process, and there is a TON of material where you can see that at work. If you do your homework.
I can see what could be a townie thought process. But it's not necessarily one. Also, I like your gish gallop technique here.
That doesn't make a bit of sense. If I'm saying people are scum together, but I'm wrong on one of them, the town isn't going to follow up on me being wrong...by lynching the other half of the alleged pair. They're going to throw rotten vegetables at me, and stop at one, unless I make an independent case. Did you hit your head when you wrote this?
Az- These two guys are scum together!
Town - Ok, let's lynch one, and then the other!
Az- Oh, darn, I was wrong.
Town - Well, he was wrong about those two being a linked pair, why don't we go kill the other person anyways, lolz!
Like, is that the plan? *level look*
You link town to scum, then when town lynches the scum, the town gets lynched too. When town lynches the town, the scum looks better and doesn't get lynched.
There are superficial cases, and then there are cases. There's plenty of players here who know the difference, and can do a decent case, but we're not seeing them. Cases that are thorough, cover the players' entire posting history, and weighs the motivations for that players' posts from both a townie and a scum perspective. Those are the cases that maximize your chance of reading someone correctly.
It is not a score-card on how well the player is doing. And it is not a one-sided affair, that simply sets out why a player's actions fit well for scum. You look for how well it fits either narrative. Otherwise, you're like the prosecutor that presumes your client is guilty and is looking only for the evidence that supports that assertion.
@Phraze
Scum can be ballsy... what do you see as his reason for defending someone that was obviously scum... all he managed to do yesterday was confuse the **** out of us...
Seriously tho, bussing, defending... all mean nothing as they stand a lone... b/c any of those can show that your scum if you do them for the wrong reasons...
Defending or bussing... if you cant give decent reasoning for either, then your gunna be scum read...
ok then, like I said, case it. I'm open to reason. if you won't convince me, then I won't change my mind.
scum had that inside information to know Kaba's lynch had to happen. only town would think otherwise. Terry didn't want Kaba lynched too, if you remember. scum might want to protest against the lynch, for show, but I doubt they would do it during a time when their team was likely to be hammered, since it's the most recent impression to track back in a scum lynch. I'm not saying Azrael is town, since nothing confirms him, but nothing confirms him scum either.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Its simple lynch azreal if i am wrong about azreal, then i am pretty sure in that situation cyth and tom are scum.
I am in favor of an Azrael lynch and this comment still looks bad.
Why is it bad?
Dichotomy focus. Given implication of 2, it's not too bad, and it could just be off-the-cuff, but still a point of note.
What dichotomy? If you been reading my posts ive been argueing that terry was a bodyguard not a docter therefore i dont see it as a dichotomy. Azreal has just been naturally scummy for the last few days and again all of sudden people rather him live than die for someone reason.
might be fair if the 'people' who want Azrael to live are present. with the votes on that wagon, I don't think the people want him to live. I'm not 'people', just 1 person. and isn't it weird that Shinichi talks so much about it, but doesn't vote Azrael? looks like he's aiming for the decision creds - been that way all game. I hope that ultimatum from his brother happens soon.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
might be fair if the 'people' who want Azrael to live are present. with the votes on that wagon, I don't think the people want him to live. I'm not 'people', just 1 person. and isn't it weird that Shinichi talks so much about it, but doesn't vote Azrael? looks like he's aiming for the decision creds - been that way all game. I hope that ultimatum from his brother happens soon.
Tom, why do you want so badly not to let me finish that Iso case?
I mean, I already know, just pointing it out for everyone else.
mind leaving us a list of suspects for after your lynch? if you flip town, we'll follow it and re-evaluate Iso. if you flip scum, there's no loss for town.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
ok. ultimatum is hot air blinded by playing favorites. no reason to believe scumread. //will be acting on my ultimatum when game ends
scumteam: Tom/Shin/Cyth.
Azrael/Phoenix are weird but willing to give them a chance. could be town.
AB switcher and BP thief could be scum JoAT. explains why there was only 1 thievery - don't think Iso lied.
whacko setup.
Vote: Cythare
looking back at Killjoy's wall, he suspected Cyth was the one trying to get him lynched.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
ok. ultimatum is hot air blinded by playing favorites. no reason to believe scumread. //will be acting on my ultimatum when game ends
scumteam: Tom/Shin/Cyth.
Azrael/Phoenix are weird but willing to give them a chance. could be town.
AB switcher and BP thief could be scum JoAT. explains why there was only 1 thievery - don't think Iso lied.
whacko setup.
Vote: Cythare
looking back at Killjoy's wall, he suspected Cyth was the one trying to get him lynched.
somewhat already flipped joat tho, i doubt there are 2 of said role.
somewhat already flipped joat tho, i doubt there are 2 of said role.
then one of us is scum since we're both roleblockers. I'm the proven one so you should be hanged.
don't wanna go by that logic? then you'll have to accept the theory that there's a possible scum JoAT, a 2nd killing role in Iso, 2 protective roles in play, besides us both as roleblockers.
if you wanna argue that we both can be town/neutral, then I'll repeat again that I am town. you denied being tpr earlier on, so that means you're the liar. your role isn't proven until now, but mine is.
easy enough? wanna support a lynch on you the town manipulator? if not, try again with a better excuse.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Be grateful, always."
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still find it hard to think Azrael would claim doc first and post walls/take firm stands to draw attention to himself, as scum, unless he's one of the bravest scum we've ever seen lmao.
since Kaba's flip confirms you're wrong about me, it's best for you to assume that you're wrong about Azrael too. re-evaluate. definitely think you should look into Cythare.
how does it not make sense? we might be lynching Azrael by now if Kaba flipped town.
doesn't a scum flip influence your reads, cuz new information?
my PoE/reads are progressing at a good rate, so I'm sure it'll sort itself out without us doing much. and thanks for the answer, not much reason to lynch Azrael then (since it's tonal and subjective).
don't think he's outed any more than Phoenix.
Be grateful, always."
Yeah, the Kaba scum flip adds to the multitude of reasons to lynch Az.
When I posted here last Monday, Kabazame had no votes. He was not a wagon. Between then and my next post, one formed, but I was still focused on you and Azrael, and chose to just respond to you with the intention of circling back later (which I obviously didn't do). To say that I was "pushing you over Kaba" is a very skewed view of what went down.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
You scum read on me is stupid, and now you're basically confirmed town so I'm going to address you directly.
You don't like my role, fine, but you keep saying that I'm scum/have to be scum and you've literally made no other argument than my role. I'm tired of being smeared, shaded, generally crapped on by you (and others) so either case me or shut up.
If you think that I'm "outed" the same as Az then you have no idea how to actually understand the game state; he's caught, he claimed doc while we have a literal doc flip, he's been shady about this whole suicide shtick (heck maybe he has some benefit from being betrayed), and he very nearly pushed yesterday's lynch away from confirmed scum (scum who basically clears you btw). At one point he actually had kaba down to 3 away from being lynched with a good chance to make it more.Are you suggesting that the scum team is 5 people or something else? Please just reword this whole paragraph.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
What was that "pass-through" style that I supposedly had that you were alluding to?
Which many other players have done. Which is a scum tell if it is done for the wrong reasons, or in the wrong manner. Is your argument that people who do it loudly and obviously are more guilty than people who push the wagon hard and then keep their vote off at end of day, or is your argument that my reads have been wrong more often than other players'? Because there's a been a whole lot of wrong to go around, seeing as we've only nailed one scum.
No, Osie. We dealt with this in night chat already too. I said probably 4-5x in thread that I was equally happy to kill either of them. Go back and read it.
You're not parsing me, after I've addressed this multiple times in thread. I offered to die if it was what a majority of the town wanted. The majority of the town wasn't saying go off yourself immediately. Today, that sounds like what the town is saying.
My concern was with staying within range to kill myself quickly. Because of someone else's unexpected action, I was not in range, but I am now in range. This is moot. With the amount of pure hatred that Jenna has sent my way, I would not in a million years have anticipated that she would actually give me points.
That's not quite it. I think if you read my body of work, you can clearly see a townie thought process, and there is a TON of material where you can see that at work. If you do your homework.
Ok. I'm glad you're not afraid. As someone who knows that you're not reading me correctly, what I can do in this position is explain to you where and why you are misreading me.
There are superficial cases, and then there are cases. There's plenty of players here who know the difference, and can do a decent case, but we're not seeing them. Cases that are thorough, cover the players' entire posting history, and weighs the motivations for that players' posts from both a townie and a scum perspective. Those are the cases that maximize your chance of reading someone correctly.
It is not a score-card on how well the player is doing. And it is not a one-sided affair, that simply sets out why a player's actions fit well for scum. You look for how well it fits either narrative. Otherwise, you're like the prosecutor that presumes your client is guilty and is looking only for the evidence that supports that assertion.
If I had to come up with a setup explanation, I'd hazard a guess that the mods felt additional protection roles was good compensation for the town facing down 5 scum in a 17 player game - especially if the neutral is a killing role.
Wait, do you think Shinichi is town, too? Also, still haven't answered my question.
Oh boy!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
and you should deal with having ***** thrown at you, it's all part of the game. heck I had to deal with it for weeks.
confirmed me can now complain believably.I would like a logical explanation for Azrael doing what he did. trying to build a case on a 'teammate' about to be lynched, when his reputation is rockbottom, is one of the most self-defeating strategies ever.....or genius if we love WIFOM situations. least he could do was drop out of the scene and let another teammate do the talking. he was the only one doing the talking, all the way until now, which sure sounds like a good way to out himself and lose. playing against wincon? what is the motive?
there's 2 teams I'm considering for now, with room for adjustment:
1: Azrael/Phoenix/Cyth
2: Tom/Shin/Cyth
- #1 if we lynch off setupgaming. maybe Shin instead of Cyth, for 'unproven' vs 'proven' RB claims. (can someone explain to me why there can be 2 RBers but not 2 docs? if you wanna count me as protective then the other RB/doc should be lynched anyways.) this seems like the easiest option so far, and maybe too easy.
- #2 was my decision when I RB'd Kaba. Phoenix included.
- in the offchance that Azrael is town, we get 2 protectives for N4. he also gets to use up a shot and kill himself if we want. we can prove him before the next phase, so let's do better with our time.
Be grateful, always."
Doing damage
That's literally all scum that know they can't live to endgame can do
I know this question wasnt for me but I'm not into letting him do any more
Do you think this is what my mafia game looks like?
I think your closest model from my meta to what is going on here is the infamous champs game. Where I confidently mislynched five times in a row, but at least the town's analysts looked at me hard enough to know they were all five honest mistakes.
The good news is, after mislynching five times, I was only one off in pinpointing the rest of the scum. Yay! : (
Like I was saying to Osie last night, I think I seriously underestimated how much of my solve game one, day one, seven times in a row mode was based on meta. Without it, all my assumptions about who can or cannot be faking tells, who has or does not have.a scummy baseline - all that is just sailing through icebergs at midnight without a searchlight. That's what's going on here with all these players I don't know - and who don't know me.
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModAzrael (5): Iso, tomsloger, Shinichi, LnGrrrR, osieorb18
tomsloger (1): Azrael
Cythare (2): dawningbluesky, Lastwhisper
Not Voting (4): Cythare, Phoenix-Fire, Axelrod, Jenna Tolaria
With 12 alive, it’s 7 to lynch. Deadline is Wednesday, December 27th at 11.59 pm EST.
and Kaba didn't behave like that. come to think of it, the way he disappeared looked like a bus. what Azrael did was anything but bussing.
Be grateful, always."
This setup is wack i mean the mechanic alone makes it wack just saying lol. I dont see how posting walls or the fact that he claimed doc has anything to do with his alignment though. What I dont understand is how kaba flip makes u think az is town but makes you think cyt is scum? One if not both were trying to get us off the train, while the other was sloghtly advocated kaba as scum but still choose to avoid the train.
He is quite outted though, why leave az alone?
Maybe a week is a stretch but the kaba train lasted a while, it lasted long enough to where you would be prodded for the posting rule so you must have seen it.Also why did you choose just to respond to me it makes no sense when i wasnt even the person taht was going to be lynched. I mean you did say u were more focused on replying to me when u did have the time to check the thread so its not as skewed as you want us to believe my friend. I wouldnt say it was a push for a counterwagon its just your focus wasnt where it was suppose to be is the problem.
Again nurse does not mean doctor, the abilities tom has clarely point towards bodyguard. Second the same reason we are lynching azreal is why you may be next because you expect us to just leave you alone due to your role it how helpful it is to town. I wish I could block it but I was told by cross and bursama that I cant block passives sadly enough.
Why does she need to case you? Espically since your the one that said hey dont lynch me my role helps town.
Why does a person have to bus as scum it doesnt make sense?
Yet you seem to be the only person to think this why? I mean this is your way of justifying how your role must be town am i right?
I don't know why your trying to use a past game as a way to say hey "I cant be scum this game so suck it". So how many times should we allow a mislynch before we say hey this got basically got 5 town lynched and then avoided the actual scum train. Again I don't care about your meta you've just been super scummy and trying to get us off of the kaba train says alot now that we know he is scum.
Or do you just try to kill the people who are extremely loudly wrong about it? Because as we all know, being loudly wrong is what scum are all about.
Apparently I'm so next level, I was banking on wine to get me out of this the whole time, or if you're tom, you think counter wagoning a guy at minus 2 or minus 1 is how you "cause damage". Surefire high percentage scum plays, right there. Bow before my scum genius and brilliant foresight.
Instead of endlessly repeating how caught you think I am, and how obvious a scum I am, why don't you go back through my history and shoe me all the other ways i'm clearly scum you haven't found yet. I'm sure, being such an obvious and inept caught scum player, this won't be difficult for you to make your case even stronger than it is already. Or, you can just keep complacently regurgitating all the scum talking points, same as the failed KJ wagon. You know, whatever works.
why Azrael town: blocked Kaba with a non-Azrael team. flip proved it. so yeah, read just got stronger.
why Cyth scum: didn't express strong opinions on the impending scum lynch. Azrael was vocal even if he was wrong tbf.
because they're a team?
1. Kaba waits for a bus.
2. Azrael tries to kick votes off the train.
3. Kaba flips scum.
4. let's all lynch Azrael.
scum knew Terry was town, and that Dawn RB'd the kill, so they knew Kaba was trapped. why would scum!Azrael bother to save a teammate caught red-handed? the logical conclusion is that scum bussed or stayed away from the lynch. I would like to hear a logical counter-argument now, thanks.
Be grateful, always."
I mean if it was up to me Dawn would have been dead already but i see now that would have been a mistake so ya I know people can be wrong, but when someone decides to say hey lets sto this hammer just for us to find out the person who was hammered was scum it says alot.
I mean if ur ok suiciding then this should be a no brainer for you
Scum can be ballsy... what do you see as his reason for defending someone that was obviously scum... all he managed to do yesterday was confuse the **** out of us...
Seriously tho, bussing, defending... all mean nothing as they stand a lone... b/c any of those can show that your scum if you do them for the wrong reasons...
Defending or bussing... if you cant give decent reasoning for either, then your gunna be scum read...
I am making an ultimatum here, in which, either today or tmr... shin or dawn has to go, because this cycle is just gunna keep repeating every day
By exploiting confusion. By switching at convenient moments which perpetuate the information differences in the game. If there's ever gonna be any progress...
That was me accusing you of cherry-picking. But to be fair, there's a lot of that to go around, and it is a very long game.
"Because that's how you were reading them" is pretty insubstantial. I feel like this D_V quote applies to a degree…
Though I don't actually want that; I can do my own work.
Strawman.
My argument is that it seems reasonably likely that you have done it for the sake of pushing a scum agenda, based on timing and the specific context of repeated instances.
Whataboutism and fearmongering.
"Actions speak louder than words?"
Even outside of the time in thread after Day 1, you pushed a whole heck of a lot harder on Iso than on Grapefruit overall.
If you're town, defend yourself rather than fearmongering and giving up. If you're scum, I don't care as much, but I would still hope that you would try to show that rather than slimy AtE and wine.
I can see what could be a townie thought process. But it's not necessarily one. Also, I like your gish gallop technique here.
You link town to scum, then when town lynches the scum, the town gets lynched too. When town lynches the town, the scum looks better and doesn't get lynched.
Gish gallop, gish gallop,
rolly-polly gish gallop.
Gish gallop, gish gallop,
eat it up. Yum!
In the scum game, laughing, happy gish gallop
In the daytime, argumentum verbosium.
Ask a gish gallop anything you want to
They'll refer you to pages upon pages.
Tu quoque and continued argumentum verbosium.
I am in favor of an Azrael lynch and this comment still looks bad.
scum had that inside information to know Kaba's lynch had to happen. only town would think otherwise. Terry didn't want Kaba lynched too, if you remember. scum might want to protest against the lynch, for show, but I doubt they would do it during a time when their team was likely to be hammered, since it's the most recent impression to track back in a scum lynch. I'm not saying Azrael is town, since nothing confirms him, but nothing confirms him scum either.
Be grateful, always."
Why is it bad?
Dichotomy focus. Given implication of 2, it's not too bad, and it could just be off-the-cuff, but still a point of note.
Well there is more than 2 scum i would assume, those arent my back up plans they're my other scum reads.
What dichotomy? If you been reading my posts ive been argueing that terry was a bodyguard not a docter therefore i dont see it as a dichotomy. Azreal has just been naturally scummy for the last few days and again all of sudden people rather him live than die for someone reason.
:this:
Fair.
Be grateful, always."
im not voting azreal?
Honestly I didnt know that let me fix that
Vote:azreal
He was already voting for Azrael.
Thats what i thought but dbs confused me lol
I mean, I already know, just pointing it out for everyone else.
While u were busy typing this u could have been working on that iso
mind leaving us a list of suspects for after your lynch? if you flip town, we'll follow it and re-evaluate Iso. if you flip scum, there's no loss for town.
Be grateful, always."
I wanna see the ultimatum from person who claims to have it.
Be grateful, always."
blinded by playing favorites. no reason to believe scumread. //will be acting on my ultimatum when game endsscumteam: Tom/Shin/Cyth.
Azrael/Phoenix are weird but willing to give them a chance. could be town.
AB switcher and BP thief could be scum JoAT. explains why there was only 1 thievery - don't think Iso lied.
whacko setup.
Vote: Cythare
looking back at Killjoy's wall, he suspected Cyth was the one trying to get him lynched.
Be grateful, always."
somewhat already flipped joat tho, i doubt there are 2 of said role.
don't wanna go by that logic? then you'll have to accept the theory that there's a possible scum JoAT, a 2nd killing role in Iso, 2 protective roles in play, besides us both as roleblockers.
if you wanna argue that we both can be town/neutral, then I'll repeat again that I am town. you denied being tpr earlier on, so that means you're the liar. your role isn't proven until now, but mine is.
easy enough? wanna support a lynch on you the town manipulator? if not, try again with a better excuse.
Be grateful, always."