I don't think it's useful to assume that a TPR exists. I'm townreading Jenna.'
While Jenna's comments keep me suspicious of Tom, I'm inclined to believe that Tom and Az are less than likely to be allied. So I'm not sure what I think there, but I'm slightly less inclined to lynch Tom.
I don't think it's useful to assume that a TPR exists. I'm townreading Jenna.'
While Jenna's comments keep me suspicious of Tom, I'm inclined to believe that Tom and Az are less than likely to be allied. So I'm not sure what I think there, but I'm slightly less inclined to lynch Tom.
I say we lynch Cythare.
not interested in WIFOM on Azrael's PBPA efforts if he's scum-...at least not until late-game.
Iso is vengeful and should be able to activate it now. hypothetically, town!Iso can take down scum!Azrael and we see both flips.
Phoenix voting Kaba and helping me cut BP was....townish.
Shin could be scum lying about being RBer. used excuse to ally/block my journey to vigshot. (also see scum prefer stalling vigshot, RB harmless)
if don't lynch Cythare, don't mind lynching Iso to activate vengeful (7 BP yet). he takes out Azrael.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I say we lynch Cythare.
not interested in WIFOM on Azrael's PBPA efforts if he's scum-...at least not until late-game.
Iso is vengeful and should be able to activate it now. hypothetically, town!Iso can take down scum!Azrael and we see both flips.
Phoenix voting Kaba and helping me cut BP was....townish.
Shin could be scum lying about being RBer. used excuse to ally/block my journey to vigshot. (also see scum prefer stalling vigshot, RB harmless)
if don't lynch Cythare, don't mind lynching Iso to activate vengeful (7 BP yet). he takes out Azrael.
I dont see the logic in lynching the vengeful, if hes town we are essentially lynching another town just so he can take mafia with him when instead we can just lynch az. If hes scum vengeful then he will just pick one of good roles to that is town related to kill off.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sorry clarification I can't be killed by Betrayal because LastWhisper gave me BP. I'm at 1 BP just like I said.
Unvote
What did everyone do last night?
Azrael: Nothing
Axelrod: Anything?
Tom: Anything?
Jenna: Nothing
Iso: Nothing
Osieorb: Anything?
Shinichi: Anything?
LnGrrrR: Looked at our result but there's no proof of that
Phoenix: Revealed Terry
Dawn: Anything?
LastWhisper: Gave me 1 BP
Cythare: Anything?
@Jenna: That said, I think that rather than go through the whole "Let's see if I catch X in a lie" again, which doesn't seem nearly as useful especially now that everyone knows you're tracking, you might as well just reveal anything that was tracked.
@dawn wouldnt call RB "harmless" to them. you stopped a kill, yo
which, btw:
confirmed town: dawning/last/jenna/shin?
just, very likely town: axel/lngrr
think is town but works with az: osi
think is meh but not w/w with az: iso
brings me to kaba/az/phoenix/cyth
with, like, maybe osi instead of phoenix or cyth maybe iso instead of az
shin could be in there somewhere if lying about his role completely for some reason
no longer care if dawning is neutral they probably have to kill her anyway
@Osie
don't see what's so bad of the idea. he's a killing role for a reason, even if it comes with dying.
@Azrael
mind listing all your night actions up to now?
took a closer look at Terry's role (could've used bodyguard protect). 3rd ability is doc.. this is probaby the 2nd time I seen someone never realized they were a direct counterclaim until they died.
I'm convinced! but Azrael is at L2 so I'll wait.
scumleans
- Azrael: is scum with Terry's flip.
- Phoenix: goes in the bag (Azrael tried to derail Phoenix's lynch).
- Cythare: can't see better options.
EDBWOP: @Tom figured. and your scum list matches mine lol. Azrael more likely scum cuz Terry's 3rd ability (legit doc).
Private Mod Note
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
It is possible that something could be gained/learned here from a BP status claim. Because the scum appear to have been using BP abilities that they can't claim, and will have to lie about the current status of their BP. Which could lead to, something.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I can't think of any better idea than to publicly hard-defend a scum-buddy at L-1 while being on the cusp of death as scum. I'm some kind of scum genius to count on WIFOM to get me out of that, huh?
Yes, I used my doc ability last night. First use so far this game.
---
Just give me some time to work up a PBPA on Iso, so you can kill him and Tom when I'm gone, after reflexively mislynching yet another townie for being loudly wrong, rather than loudly scummy.
Did no one except dawning read Terry's flip?!? He's a freaking Doctor!
Luna - Town Nurse
"You believed in me this whole time... Even though I look like... like this...? Thank you... Thank you so much..."
You are a young, idealistic woman who doesn't have a single mean bone in your body, for better or worse.
You are empathetic to the fault, and can't bring yourself to lie to others, even if means you are at disadvantage. You always believe that no is inherently evil, that everyone has some good in their hearts.
Sadly, no matter how hard you try, others seem to distrust you for your idealistic looks on life. Even if they do not trust you, you do your best for the others.
You are certain that your medical licence and the machines they have here will help you to prevent deaths of others, innocent or not.
You have the following abilities:
Active Abilities: Protect (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will die in their place. Activate this ability only if you have 3 or more points. ADAM (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will delay their death until the end of next day phase. Activate this ability only if you have 6 or more points. Treatment Pod (0): Target a player. They can't be killed tonight. Activate this ability only if you have 9 or more points.
You start the game with 3 BP.
You win when there are no threats remaining.
@Az: who did you target last night and why? Do you have anything to say about your role? What is your title?
Just give me some time to work up a PBPA on Iso, so you can kill him and Tom when I'm gone, after reflexively mislynching yet another townie for being loudly wrong, rather than loudly scummy.
Right...THAT'S the reason I'm voting you.
Get over yourself. If you're actually town, your play has been atrociously scummy, antithetical to lynching scum, and overall narrow-visioned. Your level of effort aside, please walk me through why I should even humor the idea that you might be town?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sorry clarification I can't be killed by Betrayal because LastWhisper gave me BP. I'm at 1 BP just like I said.
Unvote
What did everyone do last night?
Azrael: Nothing
Axelrod: Anything?
Tom: Anything?
Jenna: Nothing
Iso: Nothing
Osieorb: Anything?
Shinichi: Anything?
LnGrrrR: Looked at our result but there's no proof of that
Phoenix: Revealed Terry
Dawn: Anything?
LastWhisper: Gave me 1 BP
Cythare: Anything?
(Somebody): AB swapper
So if ur not lieing and toms not lieing that means he never intended to betray you because he was set at ally, so that means u intended betray him your ok with that scenario?
It is possible that something could be gained/learned here from a BP status claim. Because the scum appear to have been using BP abilities that they can't claim, and will have to lie about the current status of their BP. Which could lead to, something.
I agree to this as well ill start but mines pretty obvious I am at 4 bp
@Osie
don't see what's so bad of the idea. he's a killing role for a reason, even if it comes with dying.
@Azrael
mind listing all your night actions up to now?
took a closer look at Terry's role (could've used bodyguard protect). 3rd ability is doc.. this is probaby the 2nd time I seen someone never realized they were a direct counterclaim until they died.
I'm convinced! but Azrael is at L2 so I'll wait.
scumleans
- Azrael: is scum with Terry's flip.
- Phoenix: goes in the bag (Azrael tried to derail Phoenix's lynch).
- Cythare: can't see better options.
EDBWOP: @Tom figured. and your scum list matches mine lol. Azrael more likely scum cuz Terry's 3rd ability (legit doc).
I am confused i went back to read his flip cause u had me wondering but terry is clearly a bodyguard, all his abilities are body guard except the last one which isnt a doc ability because it seems like it makes said person immune to everything. Its also not uncommon for town to have a doc and a bodyguard so i dont see the relevance of what ur saying about terry and azreal.
Did no one except dawning read Terry's flip?!? He's a freaking Doctor!
Luna - Town Nurse
"You believed in me this whole time... Even though I look like... like this...? Thank you... Thank you so much..."
You are a young, idealistic woman who doesn't have a single mean bone in your body, for better or worse.
You are empathetic to the fault, and can't bring yourself to lie to others, even if means you are at disadvantage. You always believe that no is inherently evil, that everyone has some good in their hearts.
Sadly, no matter how hard you try, others seem to distrust you for your idealistic looks on life. Even if they do not trust you, you do your best for the others.
You are certain that your medical licence and the machines they have here will help you to prevent deaths of others, innocent or not.
You have the following abilities:
Active Abilities: Protect (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will die in their place. Activate this ability only if you have 3 or more points. ADAM (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will delay their death until the end of next day phase. Activate this ability only if you have 6 or more points. Treatment Pod (0): Target a player. They can't be killed tonight. Activate this ability only if you have 9 or more points.
You start the game with 3 BP.
You win when there are no threats remaining.
@Az: who did you target last night and why? Do you have anything to say about your role? What is your title?
I can't think of any better idea than to publicly hard-defend a scum-buddy at L-1 while being on the cusp of death as scum. I'm some kind of scum genius to count on WIFOM to get me out of that, huh?
Yes, I used my doc ability last night. First use so far this game.
---
Just give me some time to work up a PBPA on Iso, so you can kill him and Tom when I'm gone, after reflexively mislynching yet another townie for being loudly wrong, rather than loudly scummy.
Clear to enlighten us on who u tried to protect and what ur bp is at?
Its not a mislynch till you flip so please no pre flip associations like we're children.
Did no one except dawning read Terry's flip?!? He's a freaking Doctor!
Luna - Town Nurse
"You believed in me this whole time... Even though I look like... like this...? Thank you... Thank you so much..."
You are a young, idealistic woman who doesn't have a single mean bone in your body, for better or worse.
You are empathetic to the fault, and can't bring yourself to lie to others, even if means you are at disadvantage. You always believe that no is inherently evil, that everyone has some good in their hearts.
Sadly, no matter how hard you try, others seem to distrust you for your idealistic looks on life. Even if they do not trust you, you do your best for the others.
You are certain that your medical licence and the machines they have here will help you to prevent deaths of others, innocent or not.
You have the following abilities:
Active Abilities: Protect (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will die in their place. Activate this ability only if you have 3 or more points. ADAM (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will delay their death until the end of next day phase. Activate this ability only if you have 6 or more points. Treatment Pod (0): Target a player. They can't be killed tonight. Activate this ability only if you have 9 or more points.
You start the game with 3 BP.
You win when there are no threats remaining.
@Az: who did you target last night and why? Do you have anything to say about your role? What is your title?
I currently have 3 BP, setting me up for suicide range tonight unless the scum intervene. Role name is Town Doctor. My top three candidates for doc protect were Terry, Lngrr, and Axelrod. Terry because we could do a bodyguard/doc loop, Lngrr because he'd stated that he was scum-reading Iso and planning a PBPA there, and has been generally town-read since Tom tried to off him, and Axelrod because he's Axel. Ultimately opted not to protect Axel since he's tougher to clear and has been inactive, and Terry for reasons already discussed, that other players were scum-reading him. Lngrr's role isn't that great, but the only other person to protect for role-based reasons was Jenna. There's not been many people who haven't been scum-read by someone or other this game, when you try to break it down.
If I had to come up with a setup explanation, I'd hazard a guess that the mods felt additional protection roles was good compensation for the scum facing down 5 scum in a 17 player game - especially if the neutral is a killing role.
Get over yourself. If you're actually town, your play has been atrociously scummy, antithetical to lynching scum, and overall narrow-visioned. Your level of effort aside, please walk me through why I should even humor the idea that you might be town?
If you and Tom are scum, I've been close to knocking each of you out this game. The breaks went the other way, but a few more votes on you D1, a bit more time for Tom's wagon to coalesce yesterday, and it's a much different game for me.
Do you think Tom is town, Iso? Weren't you just arguing that he was scum? And doesn't that lead you into a scenario where both Tom and Kaba were on the chopping block as scum, and Tom jumped on his buddy Kaba as the party most likely to be killed anyways the next day, to score credit? If I were scum yesterday, I'd absolutely be chomping at the bit to get credit for knocking off Kaba, exactly like Tom did.
I also fail to see how narrow-visioned applies when I've PBPA'd every person in the game and reevaluated multiple times, and you've PBPA'd...zero?And reevaluated...who? But hey, if it sounds good, throw the stone.
Okay, well, I'm not scum, so that's not a hugely compelling reason for me. You're gonna have to try better than that.
Yes, I think tom is scum. I've hypothesized that you are his buddy. Nothing has indicated to me that this universe is improbable. You can WIFOM all you want about whether or not you should have bused Kaba; but regardless of what you say about it, it has to be taken with a grain of salt.
Yes, you've PBPA'd every person in the game...and somehow concluded that they're all scum with me. Congratulations, a master scum hunter is you. You've re-evaluated in the sense that you've repeatedly moved the goalposts when finally beaten over the head with enough evidence that the people you're pushing are town and you can't reasonably push them as scum in good faith, any more, because people would think your pushes are scum-motivated if you continued. I don't really see why you think PBPAing is the be-all-end-all of Mafia analysis, when it's easily one of the weakest scumhunting tools to catch scum with, and extremely easy for scum to use to look busy. But hey, if it sounds good, throw the stone.
I've re-evaluated plenty, or haven't you noticed my scumreads shifting with new information? Sure, you and tom are still scum reads of mine - but I by far believe you two have been the scummiest players in the game to-date.
You'll have to forgive me for thinking you're not doing so well this game considering you always somehow link anybody you're pushing to me as a potential scumbuddy.
Az, you've called half of the players in this game my scumbuddy.
You really need to take a step back if you're town. If you don't, you're going to cost us another mislynch. If you're not town, though, please continue geting yourself lynched.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Honestly the fact that az tried to save kaba says alot, rather he wants it to mean something or not we as the players have to take it with a grain of salt because he pretty much tried to protect scum I dont think anything az says cacn change that.
If I had to come up with a setup explanation, I'd hazard a guess that the mods felt additional protection roles was good compensation for the scum facing down 5 scum in a 17 player game - especially if the neutral is a killing role.
What?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
vindicated! I'm a genius and don't ******* know it. jk. my gamestate reads are godlike afterall~
remaining gamestate reads: Last/Iso/Azrael for town. if scum there, it's 1/3 chance. will leave for late-game.
when I RB'd Kaba, my scumteam was: Shin/Phoenix/Cyth/Kaba or Tom (was thinking Kaba could be BP Taker with his behavior)
now is: Kaba/Shin/Cyth/Phoenix or Tom
careful thinking: LnG and Axel aren't conf yet. just saying.
got back to 3 BP again.
those who helped: Phoenix/Axel. Shin is NAI.
non-voters in Kaba's lynch are Axel/Cyth.
Vote: Cythare
willing to give Shin the benefit of doubt since Tom/Cyth both tried to lynch him over Kaba.. but I wouldn't have trailed off to roleblocking Kaba if not for him so... ugh.
So az tried to lynch me over kaba and is now trying to just get me lynched over himself. It's very damage control. And I respect the powerwolfing. But he's outed.
I also saw joe flip full doctor. Do t think we needed that to know the right lynch today but to be fair I was already there
Iso thinking I'm scum with az is a little lol at this point but he's still not scum with az so
Don't think we need two weeks this thread is big enough
17 player game suggests 4 mafia, 12 townies. Last slot, could be townie or neutral. If the slot is neutral, especially a neutral killing role in a game this small, that would be a very good reason to include multiple high quality protection roles on the town side.
I'm sure Tom and Iso are going to keep on screaming that Terry was the doc. But there was a reason terry was on the fence about CC'ing, and ultimately edecided not to do so. A nurse implies the existence of a doctor, and it implies that the nurse role is a backup to the doctor - that it is not immediately active. My ability costs 2 to fire. Terry's ability required him to reach 9 BP to fire. That's at least two days before he could get it active - assuming he can get there at all.
Tom is going to flip scum - a lot of people recognize that, and agree with the case. And arguing to lynch a more dangerous scum over a less dangerous scum doesn't constitute a scum tell under nearly any circumstances. If you guys think that Tom isn't scum, and I was trying to flip from a scum lynch into a town lynch, sure, go ahead and call that a scum tell. But Kaba and Tom are both scum, and trying to flip the lynch from a scum about to be outed by abilities, to a non-outed scum? There's nothing scummy about that.
[quote from="Azrael »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/784906-zero-escape-mafia-day-4-blue-bird-lamentation?comment=6731"]Yes, I used my doc ability last night. First use so far this game. /quote]Funny, someone used their AB-swap ability last night. First use so far this game.
Sorry clarification I can't be killed by Betrayal because LastWhisper gave me BP. I'm at 1 BP just like I said.
Unvote
What did everyone do last night?
Azrael: Nothing
Axelrod: Anything?
Tom: Anything?
Jenna: Nothing
Iso: Nothing
Osieorb: Anything?
Shinichi: Anything?
LnGrrrR: Looked at our result but there's no proof of that
Phoenix: Revealed Terry
Dawn: Anything?
LastWhisper: Gave me 1 BP
Cythare: Anything?
(Somebody): AB swapper
So if ur not lieing and toms not lieing that means he never intended to betray you because he was set at ally, so that means u intended betray him your ok with that scenario?
Yes, as I posted on D3, I said I would be betraying with the expectation that my partner ally. I said if anyone wasn't okay with this, to speak up. Nobody did, so the plan was on.
I'm sorry I'm sucking this game on at least a couple of my flipped reads.
I can't guarantee I'll always be right. I can guarantee that I will fight hard for what I think is right, every day, just like I did to try and protect KJ from Tom. Sometimes that means I very publicly get egg on my face. But when you judge someone's history, you don't just cherry pick one or two interactions like Iso and Tom are trying to do. You don't just look at the end of day lynches. You look at the wagons that start and stop. You look at everything in between.
I was wrong on Grapefruit, and wrong on Kaba. On the other hand, I got Killjoy right, with Tom and Iso both pushing a very casually wrong and careless case on him. Did everything I could to try and stop it, but was overruled. No one really tried very hard to crucify them for what they did to KJ afterwards, because they did it quietly, and without fanfare. When I do things, right or wrong,I tromp all over it like a deranged elephant, and everyone notices what I'm up to. But if turn out to be right on Tom, and most people agree with me on that, then I'm at least shooting 50-50 on major wagons this game so far. And if I'm right on Iso, which remains to be seen, that's going to be 3 to 2.
At the end of the day, you don't lynch people for being loudly wrong. You lynch them if it looks like they were wrong for the wrong reasons.You lynch people for being lying, sneaky, deceptive bastards. All I'm hearing from Iso and Tom is that Az made a bad read on Kaba, and a bad read on Grape. Sure. I admit that. But people are wrong in mafia all the time.
Sorry clarification I can't be killed by Betrayal because LastWhisper gave me BP. I'm at 1 BP just like I said.
Unvote
What did everyone do last night?
Azrael: Nothing
Axelrod: Anything?
Tom: Anything?
Jenna: Nothing
Iso: Nothing
Osieorb: Anything?
Shinichi: Anything?
LnGrrrR: Looked at our result but there's no proof of that
Phoenix: Revealed Terry
Dawn: Anything?
LastWhisper: Gave me 1 BP
Cythare: Anything?
(Somebody): AB swapper
So if ur not lieing and toms not lieing that means he never intended to betray you because he was set at ally, so that means u intended betray him your ok with that scenario?
Yes, as I posted on D3, I said I would be betraying with the expectation that my partner ally. I said if anyone wasn't okay with this, to speak up. Nobody did, so the plan was on.
ok tht scenario happened the results were just flipped so unless you think tom ccaused the swap i dont think hes scum in that situation
17 player game suggests 4 mafia, 12 townies. Last slot, could be townie or neutral. If the slot is neutral, especially a neutral killing role in a game this small, that would be a very good reason to include multiple high quality protection roles on the town side.
I'm sure Tom and Iso are going to keep on screaming that Terry was the doc. But there was a reason terry was on the fence about CC'ing, and ultimately edecided not to do so. A nurse implies the existence of a doctor, and it implies that the nurse role is a backup to the doctor - that it is not immediately active. My ability costs 2 to fire. Terry's ability required him to reach 9 BP to fire. That's at least two days before he could get it active - assuming he can get there at all.
Tom is going to flip scum - a lot of people recognize that, and agree with the case. And arguing to lynch a more dangerous scum over a less dangerous scum doesn't constitute a scum tell under nearly any circumstances. If you guys think that Tom isn't scum, and I was trying to flip from a scum lynch into a town lynch, sure, go ahead and call that a scum tell. But Kaba and Tom are both scum, and trying to flip the lynch from a scum about to be outed by abilities, to a non-outed scum? There's nothing scummy about that.
At this point I just want to lynch Az, or put him on my "Will Ignore for the rest of the Game" list
vindicated! I'm a genius and don't ******* know it. jk. my gamestate reads are godlike afterall~
remaining gamestate reads: Last/Iso/Azrael for town. if scum there, it's 1/3 chance. will leave for late-game.
when I RB'd Kaba, my scumteam was: Shin/Phoenix/Cyth/Kaba or Tom (was thinking Kaba could be BP Taker with his behavior)
now is: Kaba/Shin/Cyth/Phoenix or Tom
careful thinking: LnG and Axel aren't conf yet. just saying.
got back to 3 BP again.
those who helped: Phoenix/Axel. Shin is NAI.
non-voters in Kaba's lynch are Axel/Cyth.
Vote: Cythare
willing to give Shin the benefit of doubt since Tom/Cyth both tried to lynch him over Kaba.. but I wouldn't have trailed off to roleblocking Kaba if not for him so... ugh.
Wait, what?
Tbh I agree 100% with Dawn... you are def PoE for todays lynch
Okay, well, I'm not scum, so that's not a hugely compelling reason for me. You're gonna have to try better than that.
Yes, I think tom is scum. I've hypothesized that you are his buddy. Nothing has indicated to me that this universe is improbable. You can WIFOM all you want about whether or not you should have bused Kaba; but regardless of what you say about it, it has to be taken with a grain of salt.
Yes, you've PBPA'd every person in the game...and somehow concluded that they're all scum with me. Congratulations, a master scum hunter is you. You've re-evaluated in the sense that you've repeatedly moved the goalposts when finally beaten over the head with enough evidence that the people you're pushing are town and you can't reasonably push them as scum in good faith, any more, because people would think your pushes are scum-motivated if you continued. I don't really see why you think PBPAing is the be-all-end-all of Mafia analysis, when it's easily one of the weakest scumhunting tools to catch scum with, and extremely easy for scum to use to look busy. But hey, if it sounds good, throw the stone.
I've re-evaluated plenty, or haven't you noticed my scumreads shifting with new information? Sure, you and tom are still scum reads of mine - but I by far believe you two have been the scummiest players in the game to-date.
You'll have to forgive me for thinking you're not doing so well this game considering you always somehow link anybody you're pushing to me as a potential scumbuddy.
Az, you've called half of the players in this game my scumbuddy.
You really need to take a step back if you're town. If you don't, you're going to cost us another mislynch. If you're not town, though, please continue geting yourself lynched.
I completely agree with Iso, like Az hard defended scum for literally no reason...
Did no one except dawning read Terry's flip?!? He's a freaking Doctor!
Luna - Town Nurse
"You believed in me this whole time... Even though I look like... like this...? Thank you... Thank you so much..."
You are a young, idealistic woman who doesn't have a single mean bone in your body, for better or worse.
You are empathetic to the fault, and can't bring yourself to lie to others, even if means you are at disadvantage. You always believe that no is inherently evil, that everyone has some good in their hearts.
Sadly, no matter how hard you try, others seem to distrust you for your idealistic looks on life. Even if they do not trust you, you do your best for the others.
You are certain that your medical licence and the machines they have here will help you to prevent deaths of others, innocent or not.
You have the following abilities:
Active Abilities: Protect (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will die in their place. Activate this ability only if you have 3 or more points. ADAM (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will delay their death until the end of next day phase. Activate this ability only if you have 6 or more points. Treatment Pod (0): Target a player. They can't be killed tonight. Activate this ability only if you have 9 or more points.
You start the game with 3 BP.
You win when there are no threats remaining.
@Az: who did you target last night and why? Do you have anything to say about your role? What is your title?
I currently have 3 BP, setting me up for suicide range tonight unless the scum intervene. Role name is Town Doctor. My top three candidates for doc protect were Terry, Lngrr, and Axelrod. Terry because we could do a bodyguard/doc loop, Lngrr because he'd stated that he was scum-reading Iso and planning a PBPA there, and has been generally town-read since Tom tried to off him, and Axelrod because he's Axel. Ultimately opted not to protect Axel since he's tougher to clear and has been inactive, and Terry for reasons already discussed, that other players were scum-reading him. Lngrr's role isn't that great, but the only other person to protect for role-based reasons was Jenna. There's not been many people who haven't been scum-read by someone or other this game, when you try to break it down.
If I had to come up with a setup explanation, I'd hazard a guess that the mods felt additional protection roles was good compensation for the scum facing down 5 scum in a 17 player game - especially if the neutral is a killing role.
I love how you need to mod game to come up for a reason why you should still be alive...
1. Admit to using your role, and now we find out a BP choice swapper exists (hilarious)
2. Claimed, but until today decided it wasnt worth protecting anyone...
3. Keep talking about suicide, which will never happen... ur at 3 bp... the only way you would die is if u got betrayed 3 more times, or two, if the bp taker targeted you...
Did no one except dawning read Terry's flip?!? He's a freaking Doctor!
Luna - Town Nurse
"You believed in me this whole time... Even though I look like... like this...? Thank you... Thank you so much..."
You are a young, idealistic woman who doesn't have a single mean bone in your body, for better or worse.
You are empathetic to the fault, and can't bring yourself to lie to others, even if means you are at disadvantage. You always believe that no is inherently evil, that everyone has some good in their hearts.
Sadly, no matter how hard you try, others seem to distrust you for your idealistic looks on life. Even if they do not trust you, you do your best for the others.
You are certain that your medical licence and the machines they have here will help you to prevent deaths of others, innocent or not.
You have the following abilities:
Active Abilities: Protect (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will die in their place. Activate this ability only if you have 3 or more points. ADAM (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will delay their death until the end of next day phase. Activate this ability only if you have 6 or more points. Treatment Pod (0): Target a player. They can't be killed tonight. Activate this ability only if you have 9 or more points.
You start the game with 3 BP.
You win when there are no threats remaining.
@Az: who did you target last night and why? Do you have anything to say about your role? What is your title?
I do agree with this reasoning... but for technicality purposes... we can't forget that nurse and doctor are two different roles... and from my last game Ive learned that it is possible to have many investigation/protective roles on one side...
also Azrael
you should be answering these questions...
I'd vote Azrael at this point... but I dont want to put him in L1, because scum might feel a little ballsy now that the game is getting smaller and I want to wait for him to answer Pheonix's questions
At the end of the day, you don't lynch people for being loudly wrong. You lynch them if it looks like they were wrong for the wrong reasons.
and you look like both at this point, just saying...
Az, it's disingenuous to imply that there's only 1-2 small reasons for scumreading you. I went over a bunch of this in nightchat.
You've changed your style around several times, quite possibly at provocation of in-game happenings.
You've spoken out against now-confirmed town, and spoken for now-confirmed scum.
You've pushed town away from your surest lynch. Albeit other people started the CFD, but it didn't have nearly as much momentum until around when you got in and afterwards, maintained significantly by your points, and your presentation.
You've suggested a suicide, already concerning, and then both not followed through with plans to set that up and waffled on it.
You cite "doing a lot of work" as a major reason people should townread you.
You've done a lot of linking of people in a manner that suggests you're trying to link mislynches.
You were telling me I needed to think about my reads and not be afraid of experience. Well, I'm not afraid of your experience. I just think you're caught scum.
Oh no, I get that I'm in the POE for sure, I'm just surprised by voting for me because I'm a nonvoter, as opposed to my lack of content. It seems like lazy and also disignenuous - I wasn't pushing Shinichi and Azrael over Kabazame. I was looking at Azrael and Shinichi before Kabazame showed up, looked extremely questionable, and then disappeared again, and by the time I came back, the wagon had shifted over to Kabazame. I stated that I was still interested in an Azrael lynch (and still am), but also acknowledged that Kabazame was a good wagon. I never ended up voting after my unvote, but by the time I posted again, Kabazame had already been hammered.
It's definitely a bad look, but there's no reason to lie about how it went down to make me look even worse.
hmm...
still prefer to leave Azrael alive for now. Cyth is a better option - not sure I like the lack of attention there, even when she's on so many suspect lists. if Azrael gets to use a docshot, and I'm RB, don't see what's so bad about leaving him over a phase. my gamestate reads are right so far.. Iso/Azrael could be t/t.
Shin isn't off my radar since Kaba flipped scum, which kiiind of supports my theory construction.
don't like how easily Tom agrees to hammering the phase away.
I think the setup is meant to be unbreakable(?) or idk how you say it.
- nurse is a legit role.
- we get few protectives, or yet to be proven.
- Phoenix is some kind of coroner.
- AB game can be 'manipulated' in some way.
- LnG and Last have setup-specific roles.
conclusion: Cyth/Tom/Shin for susp. Cyth/Tom shaded Shin the previous phase for wanting to lynch me though.
@Shinichi @Tom
thoughts on Cyth?
@Azrael
iirc you were at 6 BP, so now it's down to 3 cuz of betray and a doc protect? makes sense. thought I remembered wrong.
@Last
mind detailing the reasons you suspect Azrael, is it paranoia or actual evidence?
@Osie
no offense but Azrael is probs the standoffish type when it comes to experience. frustration comes from the 'feeling underappreciated' place, more than scummy self-preservation - and I know since I felt that before.
@Cythare
you didn't express strong opinions on Kaba's lynch. at least Phoenix/Osie has that going for them. even Azrael was vocal about it.
why would scum want to whiteknight their bud, or agitate others into hammering them, when the flip will make them next? case on Kaba was at L2. that's a self-defeating strategy, if it really comes from scum.
you haven't been giving us anything to look into your mindset, only echoing the opinions of others. please list your thoughts on things up until now.
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Oh no, I get that I'm in the POE for sure, I'm just surprised by voting for me because I'm a nonvoter, as opposed to my lack of content. It seems like lazy and also disignenuous - I wasn't pushing Shinichi and Azrael over Kabazame. I was looking at Azrael and Shinichi before Kabazame showed up, looked extremely questionable, and then disappeared again, and by the time I came back, the wagon had shifted over to Kabazame. I stated that I was still interested in an Azrael lynch (and still am), but also acknowledged that Kabazame was a good wagon. I never ended up voting after my unvote, but by the time I posted again, Kabazame had already been hammered.
It's definitely a bad look, but there's no reason to lie about how it went down to make me look even worse.
How is it lazy? So should we just ignore the fact u didnt vote? Is that what your trying to imply? Dont forget the person that was lynched flipped scum so makes sense that DBS is questioning your lack of vote placement. AS well I do believe you were pushing me quite hard why? You had plenty of time to hammer that lynch he was hovering between l2 and l1 for atleast 7 days.
Az, it's disingenuous to imply that there's only 1-2 small reasons for scumreading you. I went over a bunch of this in nightchat.
You've changed your style around several times, quite possibly at provocation of in-game happenings.
You've spoken out against now-confirmed town, and spoken for now-confirmed scum.
You've pushed town away from your surest lynch. Albeit other people started the CFD, but it didn't have nearly as much momentum until around when you got in and afterwards, maintained significantly by your points, and your presentation.
You've suggested a suicide, already concerning, and then both not followed through with plans to set that up and waffled on it.
You cite "doing a lot of work" as a major reason people should townread you.
You've done a lot of linking of people in a manner that suggests you're trying to link mislynches.
You were telling me I needed to think about my reads and not be afraid of experience. Well, I'm not afraid of your experience. I just think you're caught scum.
-I dont want or feel the need to lynch you anymore just saying lol
-I don't think we should leave a scum read alive just to look for another that may flip either or.
-I want to look into him and tom after azreal gets lynched. Curious as to why Cythare thinks we should be focusing on his/her lack of content and just ignore the fact that said person had a week to vote but choose not to.
-So do u not suspect azreal anymore whats up with that? Unless your applying there is 5 scum lol
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'mma look over the couple hundred posts that LnGrrrR has posted by this weekend when I have the time. My read on him has been swaying like a sapling in the wind, and I want that sapling to grow into a bigger tree.
Doesn't really make sense to lynch anyone other than Az today.
Dawn
There is no new evidence, that I can provide for Az's lynch, all cards are on the table...
Lets just hope ur gamestate reads are correct...
vote: Cynthare Like I said we've got pretty all we can get on Azreal at this point, so pressuring him wont change anything... so we either hammer him, or move on to better stuff for the time being...
@Last, I can self terminate tonight by using my ability again to -2 myself and then get betrayed. It doesn't take three nights, it happens tonight. Dead Az by morning.
@Last, I can self terminate tonight by using my ability again to -2 myself and then get betrayed. It doesn't take three nights, it happens tonight. Dead Az by morning.
I kinda forgot about that... **** this proposition is so god damn dumb.... I really have no idea how I feel about this.
In your honest opinion, who are scum... excluding dawn and shin... Im done with that bs right now, and why you want to kill yourself...
You are putting town in a *****ty position... we shouldnt be stuck in this, "he needs to die" dilemma to move forward with this game, because now we are stuck wondering if town is the one pushing this lynch, or if its scum...
but if you wanna kys go ahead, i wont be stopping you
@Last, I can self terminate tonight by using my ability again to -2 myself and then get betrayed. It doesn't take three nights, it happens tonight. Dead Az by morning.
or we can lynch u today because why the hell should any of us trust a scum read?
Dawn
There is no new evidence, that I can provide for Az's lynch, all cards are on the table...
Lets just hope ur gamestate reads are correct...
vote: Cynthare Like I said we've got pretty all we can get on Azreal at this point, so pressuring him wont change anything... so we either hammer him, or move on to better stuff for the time being...
Why? Why are you just blantly ok with azreal 1 day then the next day yep likes lynch cynthare?
@Last, I can self terminate tonight by using my ability again to -2 myself and then get betrayed. It doesn't take three nights, it happens tonight. Dead Az by morning.
or we can lynch u today because why the hell should any of us trust a scum read?
Dawn
There is no new evidence, that I can provide for Az's lynch, all cards are on the table...
Lets just hope ur gamestate reads are correct...
vote: Cynthare Like I said we've got pretty all we can get on Azreal at this point, so pressuring him wont change anything... so we either hammer him, or move on to better stuff for the time being...
Why? Why are you just blantly ok with azreal 1 day then the next day yep likes lynch cynthare?
im not ok with him... but if hes gunna kill himself then what the heck... we just lynch him tmr then... if he doesnt die
why are you letting az talk his way into another night to do nefarious things?
hes outed
Thats what I am saying, like this is bs at this point. First he claimed doc so he bought himself a day, then the whole suicide theory, and then the whole kaba thing, and now this?
Can we just lynch him so we can move on to other scummy players.
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While Jenna's comments keep me suspicious of Tom, I'm inclined to believe that Tom and Az are less than likely to be allied. So I'm not sure what I think there, but I'm slightly less inclined to lynch Tom.
PoE: Azrael/Cythare/Iso/Shinichi/Tom
Mild FoS/Furrowed Brow: Lastwhisper
b) shes probably just lying again and got saved by last
I dont think its useful that azreal hasnt been hammer immediatly but not much i can do lol
not interested in WIFOM on Azrael's PBPA efforts if he's scum-...at least not until late-game.
Iso is vengeful and should be able to activate it now. hypothetically, town!Iso can take down scum!Azrael and we see both flips.
Phoenix voting Kaba and helping me cut BP was....townish.
Shin could be scum lying about being RBer. used excuse to ally/block my journey to vigshot. (also see scum prefer stalling vigshot, RB harmless)
if don't lynch Cythare, don't mind lynching Iso to activate vengeful (7 BP yet). he takes out Azrael.
Be grateful, always."
I dont see the logic in lynching the vengeful, if hes town we are essentially lynching another town just so he can take mafia with him when instead we can just lynch az. If hes scum vengeful then he will just pick one of good roles to that is town related to kill off.
This seems like a bad idea, since it's confirming 1-2 town deaths, more likely than not.
Furrowed Brow (FoS) at Dawning too again.
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@Jenna: Did you Track tom last Night?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Unvote
What did everyone do last night?
Azrael: Nothing
Axelrod: Anything?
Tom: Anything?
Jenna: Nothing
Iso: Nothing
Osieorb: Anything?
Shinichi: Anything?
LnGrrrR: Looked at our result but there's no proof of that
Phoenix: Revealed Terry
Dawn: Anything?
LastWhisper: Gave me 1 BP
Cythare: Anything?
(Somebody): AB swapper
which, btw:
confirmed town: dawning/last/jenna/shin?
just, very likely town: axel/lngrr
think is town but works with az: osi
think is meh but not w/w with az: iso
brings me to
kaba/az/phoenix/cythwith, like, maybe osi instead of phoenix or cyth
maybe iso instead of az
shin could be in there somewhere if lying about his role completely for some reason
no longer care if dawning is neutral they probably have to kill her anyway
just picked Ally for the AB game.
@Osie
don't see what's so bad of the idea. he's a killing role for a reason, even if it comes with dying.
@Azrael
mind listing all your night actions up to now?
took a closer look at Terry's role (could've used bodyguard protect). 3rd ability is doc.. this is probaby the 2nd time I seen someone never realized they were a direct counterclaim until they died.
I'm convinced! but Azrael is at L2 so I'll wait.
scumleans
- Azrael: is scum with Terry's flip.
- Phoenix: goes in the bag (Azrael tried to derail Phoenix's lynch).
- Cythare: can't see better options.
EDBWOP: @Tom figured. and your scum list matches mine lol. Azrael more likely scum cuz Terry's 3rd ability (legit doc).
Be grateful, always."
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModAzrael (5): Iso, tomsloger, Shinichi, LnGrrrR, osieorb18
tomsloger (1): Azrael
Cythare (1): dawningbluesky
Not Voting (5): Lastwhisper, Cythare, Phoenix-Fire, Axelrod, Jenna Tolaria
With 12 alive, it’s 7 to lynch. Deadline is Wednesday, December 27th at 11.59 pm EST.
It's only a scum tell if you aren't scum as well, Tom.
I take solace in the fact that you're next.
Yes, I used my doc ability last night. First use so far this game.
---
Just give me some time to work up a PBPA on Iso, so you can kill him and Tom when I'm gone, after reflexively mislynching yet another townie for being loudly wrong, rather than loudly scummy.
"You believed in me this whole time... Even though I look like... like this...? Thank you... Thank you so much..."
You are a young, idealistic woman who doesn't have a single mean bone in your body, for better or worse.
You are empathetic to the fault, and can't bring yourself to lie to others, even if means you are at disadvantage. You always believe that no is inherently evil, that everyone has some good in their hearts.
Sadly, no matter how hard you try, others seem to distrust you for your idealistic looks on life. Even if they do not trust you, you do your best for the others.
You are certain that your medical licence and the machines they have here will help you to prevent deaths of others, innocent or not.
You have the following abilities:
Active Abilities:
Protect (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will die in their place. Activate this ability only if you have 3 or more points.
ADAM (0): Target a player. If they were to be killed tonight, you will delay their death until the end of next day phase. Activate this ability only if you have 6 or more points.
Treatment Pod (0): Target a player. They can't be killed tonight. Activate this ability only if you have 9 or more points.
You start the game with 3 BP.
You win when there are no threats remaining.
Right...THAT'S the reason I'm voting you.
Get over yourself. If you're actually town, your play has been atrociously scummy, antithetical to lynching scum, and overall narrow-visioned. Your level of effort aside, please walk me through why I should even humor the idea that you might be town?
Yet ANOTHER reason I'm voting Az. :3
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So if ur not lieing and toms not lieing that means he never intended to betray you because he was set at ally, so that means u intended betray him your ok with that scenario?
I agree to this as well ill start but mines pretty obvious I am at 4 bp
I am confused i went back to read his flip cause u had me wondering but terry is clearly a bodyguard, all his abilities are body guard except the last one which isnt a doc ability because it seems like it makes said person immune to everything. Its also not uncommon for town to have a doc and a bodyguard so i dont see the relevance of what ur saying about terry and azreal.
Again hes a bodyguard
Clear to enlighten us on who u tried to protect and what ur bp is at?
Its not a mislynch till you flip so please no pre flip associations like we're children.
I currently have 3 BP, setting me up for suicide range tonight unless the scum intervene. Role name is Town Doctor. My top three candidates for doc protect were Terry, Lngrr, and Axelrod. Terry because we could do a bodyguard/doc loop, Lngrr because he'd stated that he was scum-reading Iso and planning a PBPA there, and has been generally town-read since Tom tried to off him, and Axelrod because he's Axel. Ultimately opted not to protect Axel since he's tougher to clear and has been inactive, and Terry for reasons already discussed, that other players were scum-reading him. Lngrr's role isn't that great, but the only other person to protect for role-based reasons was Jenna. There's not been many people who haven't been scum-read by someone or other this game, when you try to break it down.
If I had to come up with a setup explanation, I'd hazard a guess that the mods felt additional protection roles was good compensation for the scum facing down 5 scum in a 17 player game - especially if the neutral is a killing role.
If you and Tom are scum, I've been close to knocking each of you out this game. The breaks went the other way, but a few more votes on you D1, a bit more time for Tom's wagon to coalesce yesterday, and it's a much different game for me.
Do you think Tom is town, Iso? Weren't you just arguing that he was scum? And doesn't that lead you into a scenario where both Tom and Kaba were on the chopping block as scum, and Tom jumped on his buddy Kaba as the party most likely to be killed anyways the next day, to score credit? If I were scum yesterday, I'd absolutely be chomping at the bit to get credit for knocking off Kaba, exactly like Tom did.
I also fail to see how narrow-visioned applies when I've PBPA'd every person in the game and reevaluated multiple times, and you've PBPA'd...zero?And reevaluated...who? But hey, if it sounds good, throw the stone.
Yes, I think tom is scum. I've hypothesized that you are his buddy. Nothing has indicated to me that this universe is improbable. You can WIFOM all you want about whether or not you should have bused Kaba; but regardless of what you say about it, it has to be taken with a grain of salt.
Yes, you've PBPA'd every person in the game...and somehow concluded that they're all scum with me. Congratulations, a master scum hunter is you. You've re-evaluated in the sense that you've repeatedly moved the goalposts when finally beaten over the head with enough evidence that the people you're pushing are town and you can't reasonably push them as scum in good faith, any more, because people would think your pushes are scum-motivated if you continued. I don't really see why you think PBPAing is the be-all-end-all of Mafia analysis, when it's easily one of the weakest scumhunting tools to catch scum with, and extremely easy for scum to use to look busy. But hey, if it sounds good, throw the stone.
I've re-evaluated plenty, or haven't you noticed my scumreads shifting with new information? Sure, you and tom are still scum reads of mine - but I by far believe you two have been the scummiest players in the game to-date.
You'll have to forgive me for thinking you're not doing so well this game considering you always somehow link anybody you're pushing to me as a potential scumbuddy.
Az, you've called half of the players in this game my scumbuddy.
You really need to take a step back if you're town. If you don't, you're going to cost us another mislynch. If you're not town, though, please continue geting yourself lynched.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What?
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
I also saw joe flip full doctor. Do t think we needed that to know the right lynch today but to be fair I was already there
Iso thinking I'm scum with az is a little lol at this point but he's still not scum with az so
Don't think we need two weeks this thread is big enough
17 player game suggests 4 mafia, 12 townies. Last slot, could be townie or neutral. If the slot is neutral, especially a neutral killing role in a game this small, that would be a very good reason to include multiple high quality protection roles on the town side.
I'm sure Tom and Iso are going to keep on screaming that Terry was the doc. But there was a reason terry was on the fence about CC'ing, and ultimately edecided not to do so. A nurse implies the existence of a doctor, and it implies that the nurse role is a backup to the doctor - that it is not immediately active. My ability costs 2 to fire. Terry's ability required him to reach 9 BP to fire. That's at least two days before he could get it active - assuming he can get there at all.
Tom is going to flip scum - a lot of people recognize that, and agree with the case. And arguing to lynch a more dangerous scum over a less dangerous scum doesn't constitute a scum tell under nearly any circumstances. If you guys think that Tom isn't scum, and I was trying to flip from a scum lynch into a town lynch, sure, go ahead and call that a scum tell. But Kaba and Tom are both scum, and trying to flip the lynch from a scum about to be outed by abilities, to a non-outed scum? There's nothing scummy about that.
I can't guarantee I'll always be right. I can guarantee that I will fight hard for what I think is right, every day, just like I did to try and protect KJ from Tom. Sometimes that means I very publicly get egg on my face. But when you judge someone's history, you don't just cherry pick one or two interactions like Iso and Tom are trying to do. You don't just look at the end of day lynches. You look at the wagons that start and stop. You look at everything in between.
I was wrong on Grapefruit, and wrong on Kaba. On the other hand, I got Killjoy right, with Tom and Iso both pushing a very casually wrong and careless case on him. Did everything I could to try and stop it, but was overruled. No one really tried very hard to crucify them for what they did to KJ afterwards, because they did it quietly, and without fanfare. When I do things, right or wrong,I tromp all over it like a deranged elephant, and everyone notices what I'm up to. But if turn out to be right on Tom, and most people agree with me on that, then I'm at least shooting 50-50 on major wagons this game so far. And if I'm right on Iso, which remains to be seen, that's going to be 3 to 2.
At the end of the day, you don't lynch people for being loudly wrong. You lynch them if it looks like they were wrong for the wrong reasons.You lynch people for being lying, sneaky, deceptive bastards. All I'm hearing from Iso and Tom is that Az made a bad read on Kaba, and a bad read on Grape. Sure. I admit that. But people are wrong in mafia all the time.
ok tht scenario happened the results were just flipped so unless you think tom ccaused the swap i dont think hes scum in that situation
Ya funny how this goes... lol
At this point I just want to lynch Az, or put him on my "Will Ignore for the rest of the Game" list
Tbh I agree 100% with Dawn... you are def PoE for todays lynch
I completely agree with Iso, like Az hard defended scum for literally no reason...
I love how you need to mod game to come up for a reason why you should still be alive...
1. Admit to using your role, and now we find out a BP choice swapper exists (hilarious)
2. Claimed, but until today decided it wasnt worth protecting anyone...
3. Keep talking about suicide, which will never happen... ur at 3 bp... the only way you would die is if u got betrayed 3 more times, or two, if the bp taker targeted you...
I do agree with this reasoning... but for technicality purposes... we can't forget that nurse and doctor are two different roles... and from my last game Ive learned that it is possible to have many investigation/protective roles on one side...
also Azrael
you should be answering these questions...
I'd vote Azrael at this point... but I dont want to put him in L1, because scum might feel a little ballsy now that the game is getting smaller and I want to wait for him to answer Pheonix's questions
and you look like both at this point, just saying...
You were telling me I needed to think about my reads and not be afraid of experience. Well, I'm not afraid of your experience. I just think you're caught scum.
It's definitely a bad look, but there's no reason to lie about how it went down to make me look even worse.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
still prefer to leave Azrael alive for now. Cyth is a better option - not sure I like the lack of attention there, even when she's on so many suspect lists. if Azrael gets to use a docshot, and I'm RB, don't see what's so bad about leaving him over a phase. my gamestate reads are right so far.. Iso/Azrael could be t/t.
Shin isn't off my radar since Kaba flipped scum, which kiiind of supports my theory construction.
don't like how easily Tom agrees to hammering the phase away.
I think the setup is meant to be unbreakable(?) or idk how you say it.
- nurse is a legit role.
- we get few protectives, or yet to be proven.
- Phoenix is some kind of coroner.
- AB game can be 'manipulated' in some way.
- LnG and Last have setup-specific roles.
conclusion: Cyth/Tom/Shin for susp. Cyth/Tom shaded Shin the previous phase for wanting to lynch me though.
@Shinichi @Tom
thoughts on Cyth?
@Azrael
iirc you were at 6 BP, so now it's down to 3 cuz of betray and a doc protect? makes sense. thought I remembered wrong.
@Last
mind detailing the reasons you suspect Azrael, is it paranoia or actual evidence?
@Osie
no offense but Azrael is probs the standoffish type when it comes to experience. frustration comes from the 'feeling underappreciated' place, more than scummy self-preservation - and I know since I felt that before.
@Cythare
you didn't express strong opinions on Kaba's lynch. at least Phoenix/Osie has that going for them. even Azrael was vocal about it.
why would scum want to whiteknight their bud, or agitate others into hammering them, when the flip will make them next? case on Kaba was at L2. that's a self-defeating strategy, if it really comes from scum.
you haven't been giving us anything to look into your mindset, only echoing the opinions of others. please list your thoughts on things up until now.
Be grateful, always."
How is it lazy? So should we just ignore the fact u didnt vote? Is that what your trying to imply? Dont forget the person that was lynched flipped scum so makes sense that DBS is questioning your lack of vote placement. AS well I do believe you were pushing me quite hard why? You had plenty of time to hammer that lynch he was hovering between l2 and l1 for atleast 7 days.
What lie are you refering too?
Osi summed it up pretty well @azreal
-I dont want or feel the need to lynch you anymore just saying lol
-I don't think we should leave a scum read alive just to look for another that may flip either or.
-I want to look into him and tom after azreal gets lynched. Curious as to why Cythare thinks we should be focusing on his/her lack of content and just ignore the fact that said person had a week to vote but choose not to.
-So do u not suspect azreal anymore whats up with that? Unless your applying there is 5 scum lol
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Doesn't really make sense to lynch anyone other than Az today.
There is no new evidence, that I can provide for Az's lynch, all cards are on the table...
Lets just hope ur gamestate reads are correct...
vote: Cynthare Like I said we've got pretty all we can get on Azreal at this point, so pressuring him wont change anything... so we either hammer him, or move on to better stuff for the time being...
In your honest opinion, who are scum... excluding dawn and shin... Im done with that bs right now, and why you want to kill yourself...
You are putting town in a *****ty position... we shouldnt be stuck in this, "he needs to die" dilemma to move forward with this game, because now we are stuck wondering if town is the one pushing this lynch, or if its scum...
but if you wanna kys go ahead, i wont be stopping you
or we can lynch u today because why the hell should any of us trust a scum read?
Why? Why are you just blantly ok with azreal 1 day then the next day yep likes lynch cynthare?
hes outed
Thats what I am saying, like this is bs at this point. First he claimed doc so he bought himself a day, then the whole suicide theory, and then the whole kaba thing, and now this?
Can we just lynch him so we can move on to other scummy players.