lol. I knew you wanted it so I gave it to you. nope. you're town to me.
Where did I imply I wanted it, i said I saw it coming. As for the reaosning for your vote I think it was just an excuse to you could get way with changing votes.
the way you keep beating the dead horse that is me, just shows you're trying to say 'you can't read me' since I towncleared you so easily. your persistence with me now is the same. I read you as town. deal with it.
They're all possible outcomes so deal with it see what I did there hue.
indeed. I'd say you're one of those players I have a chance at reading well.
@Dawn How does one make someone tunnel lol?
what question is that? are you trying to say you're tunneling on me? hmm.. tunneling can happen when a player blinds the said person's field of vision in one way or another.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
- doesn't say so...nope.
- if I claimed RB from the getgo, I would be dead meat now and there goes the town vig if I claimed it later. if I claimed vig first and, under pressure, claimed RB it would solidify my claim. there is a right and wrong way to claim my role, and the wrong order will nullify clearing me as vig.
Then arent you implying you only claimed the latter since u knew it was safer, i feel like thats just a scummy mindset lmfao but oh wells its prob NAI morethan anything.
you do realize that was a WIFOM excuse you're suggesting, right? this is what nullifies the clearance. the role is wine-inducing, and I'd say a perfect way to nullify clearance - depending on how much people wine themselves.
If it was wine then you wouldn't have had to worry about which role was safer to claim, if you knew claiming roleblocker is naturally scummy then its not wine lol.
wrong.
- if I claimed RB first, and then vig on pressure, it would fuel my wagon and affect town later. remember that RB is my 1st ability, so it wouldn't have hinted at another ability. thereby giving no reason for pause.
- if I claimed vig first, and then RB on pressure, it would make others wonder if that is actually on purpose or not. "would scum do this?" further questioning will be wine, and easy for scum to use.
given my abilities and role, it was logically better to claim my 2nd ability first. it gave me leeway to self-preserve.
as for my alignment, it will show in the thought put into my claiming.
I wont' be lynched, but there WILL be wine for scum to use at any given time. this is what nullifies my clearance.
Your implying people only see u scummy for your claim, I also stand by what I said before which was that there wasnt even a reason for you to claim in the first place. Also do you really think I scum read you because of your vigilante claim alone? Its your words that bother me and get me worried.
Another thing, why are you using the use of wine to discredit why your actions arent scummy. Do you think I don't know what considered wine and whats not, do you think I just gonna be like hey she claimed vigilante insta town oh she claimed roleblocker insta scum oh she claimed both i guess ill just throw hew in the neutral pile. That isn't how it works lmfao.
Where did I imply I wanted it, i said I saw it coming. As for the reaosning for your vote I think it was just an excuse to you could get way with changing votes.
the way you keep beating the dead horse that is me, just shows you're trying to say 'you can't read me' since I towncleared you so easily. your persistence with me now is the same. I read you as town. deal with it.
They're all possible outcomes so deal with it see what I did there hue.
indeed. I'd say you're one of those players I have a chance at reading well.
@Dawn How does one make someone tunnel lol?
what question is that? are you trying to say you're tunneling on me? hmm.. tunneling can happen when a player blinds the said person's field of vision in one way or another.
I am literally asking how someone can make another person tunnel cause you stated your tunneling because your being tunneled lol.
It actually is to me, since while I always put myself as cleared town, I could see reasons for either alignment why people might put themselves in a non-town position, and I'm intrigued to know why she's doing it.
It actually is to me, since while I always put myself as cleared town, I could see reasons for either alignment why people might put themselves in a non-town position, and I'm intrigued to know why she's doing it.
i'm watching this interaction
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
townlean: Iso/Last/Tom/Terry/Shinichi
positive: Azrael/Phoenix/Killjoy/Osie
~ Dawn is nowhere // Blue's rep too ~
negative: DV//Megiddo/Axelrod/Jenna
scumlean: Grapefruit/LnG/??
Why are you at "nowhere" on your readslist? Shouldn't you be above townlean in self-confirmed town?
I'm more curious to see how others read someone I suspect or not, rather than focus on where I place myself. though, I always make readlists with me as neutral. just a thing I guess.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Question: Did you clarify with the mod that your Vig ability won't work unless you have exactly 1 BP?
clarified in-game with Terry. contacting the host doesn't solidify the truth of this claim so I won't bother.
May I ask you to clarify exactly what you are saying here?
What does "contacting the hose doesn't solidify the truth of this claim" mean?
I don't like using the host's name in vain lmao. less 'religiously'..I don't like to sound reliable by saying I've contacted the host etc etc. if I can sort something out during a game, I'll always go that route instead of questioning the host. just a gaming etiquette.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Then arent you implying you only claimed the latter since u knew it was safer, i feel like thats just a scummy mindset lmfao but oh wells its prob NAI morethan anything.
you do realize that was a WIFOM excuse you're suggesting, right? this is what nullifies the clearance. the role is wine-inducing, and I'd say a perfect way to nullify clearance - depending on how much people wine themselves.
If it was wine then you wouldn't have had to worry about which role was safer to claim, if you knew claiming roleblocker is naturally scummy then its not wine lol.
wrong.
- if I claimed RB first, and then vig on pressure, it would fuel my wagon and affect town later. remember that RB is my 1st ability, so it wouldn't have hinted at another ability. thereby giving no reason for pause.
- if I claimed vig first, and then RB on pressure, it would make others wonder if that is actually on purpose or not. "would scum do this?" further questioning will be wine, and easy for scum to use.
given my abilities and role, it was logically better to claim my 2nd ability first. it gave me leeway to self-preserve.
as for my alignment, it will show in the thought put into my claiming.
I wont' be lynched, but there WILL be wine for scum to use at any given time. this is what nullifies my clearance.
Your implying people only see u scummy for your claim, I also stand by what I said before which was that there wasnt even a reason for you to claim in the first place. Also do you really think I scum read you because of your vigilante claim alone? Its your words that bother me and get me worried.
Another thing, why are you using the use of wine to discredit why your actions arent scummy. Do you think I don't know what considered wine and whats not, do you think I just gonna be like hey she claimed vigilante insta town oh she claimed roleblocker insta scum oh she claimed both i guess ill just throw hew in the neutral pile. That isn't how it works lmfao.
whether you wanna stand by the reason that I shouldn't have claimed, this isn't your role or decision to make. you wanted me to full claim and this is all you have to say? seriously, get off the dead horse.
no. I'm explaining why I said it "nullifies the clearance" since you so politely asked for it. what are you trying to imply here? that I'm making up excuses? nope. just explaining.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I am literally asking how someone can make another person tunnel cause you stated your tunneling because your being tunneled lol.
Can u really read me well?
I see. that is a question for DV. I'm not sure why he even tunneled on me. I suspected him cuz of the tunnel, and we ended up in a stalemate.
could say yeah, I can read you well. not like Mish who reads me too well and throws me off every time lol
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Been at work all day and not going to be in front of my computer for a while. Quick response to those saying my post on Terry looks like a natural progression: how is saying that not reading your correctly PM is NAI and then turning around and pushing DBS for exactly that a natural progression?
Been at work all day and not going to be in front of my computer for a while. Quick response to those saying my post on Terry looks like a natural progression: how is saying that not reading your correctly PM is NAI and then turning around and pushing DBS for exactly that a natural progression?
I'll spill the beans I'm like 90% certain now that scum have day chat and unvoted the claimed Vig because the Vig has a bad T/S list and they think hes going to hit town.
This theory sounds good, but doesn't pass the sniff test. When you look at the unvotes that came quickly most of them were people DBS was scum reading (because her reads have seemed to be heavy on OMGUS).
Been at work all day and not going to be in front of my computer for a while. Quick response to those saying my post on Terry looks like a natural progression: how is saying that not reading your correctly PM is NAI and then turning around and pushing DBS for exactly that a natural progression?
Are you pointing out a scumtell on yourself?
What are you talking about? People said that was a natural progression for Terry to make? I've never said not reading your PM correctly is NAI.
Been at work all day and not going to be in front of my computer for a while. Quick response to those saying my post on Terry looks like a natural progression: how is saying that not reading your correctly PM is NAI and then turning around and pushing DBS for exactly that a natural progression?
Are you pointing out a scumtell on yourself?
What are you talking about? People said that was a natural progression for Terry to make? I've never said not reading your PM correctly is NAI.
"to those saying my post on Terry looks like a natural progression"
This reads like you're disagreeing with people saying that YOUR post is natural.
Been at work all day and not going to be in front of my computer for a while. Quick response to those saying my post on Terry looks like a natural progression: how is saying that not reading your correctly PM is NAI and then turning around and pushing DBS for exactly that a natural progression?
Are you pointing out a scumtell on yourself?
What are you talking about? People said that was a natural progression for Terry to make? I've never said not reading your PM correctly is NAI.
no, he pushed dbs for not reading his role pm then attacking iso for not reading his.
thats, you know, different
However:
*His progression on various people is weird or nonexistant.
*The way he discusses his scumtells in terms of where they are on the list vs. how scummy he actually views them is scummy.
*Consistant hedging (not super great tell, but could be fencesitting so I'm noting it)
*Quite a bit of fluff. I found myself skipping a lot of posts for being completely useless or just answering basic questions and whatnot.
So, I think in the macro perspective, Osie is scum. Vote Osie
So yea, red things bad. Bold things good. Italic things either. strikethroughs irrelevent.
And now, I'm taking a break.
Okay, so I saw this and felt extremely uncompelled by your stance, here. It feels like you're hedging your osi read - "He's townie for these reasons, buuut this is why I think he's scum" - but going for it, anyway.
Then your follow-up post later on:
Quote from Killjoy »
I'm currently more sure that Osie is scum than my other scumreads atm, because I just physically read their entire game at once and confidence in Osie!scum is at it's peak.
read to me like you just didn't really want to put in any work into casing anybody else because you just did all of the work on your osi post. It's phrased significantly differently from how I remember reading it, but that was the impression I was left with upon reading it.
Does it make sense to you, now, why I was under the impression that you didn't actually believe your case on osi? You used a really soft stance to conclude your big post, and then followed it with, "Well, this is the best scumread I have right now."
I mean... how do you expect an objective view of someone's play to end? Am I supposed to just forget that I noted potential towntells? No, and if you read anyone's ISO you're going to fins scummy things and townie things. Including them in my conclusion was solely poiunting out their existence. I believe my language correctly indicated that I thought he was scum. I mean, I made a whole list and everything.
Of course I didn't wanna do any more work. That Osie case took like 7 hours. **** casing other people after that (at least immediately).
Also, I understood that "he doesn't believe his attack" in some sort of subconscous nextlevel stuff that I could concievably doing as scum, was your underlying point. I got that.You don't know my alignment, so trying to deduce what I'm thinking as scum is one of your goals. Fine.
The part that made me wtf was that you seemed to be saying not that I just disbelieved my case, but that I was verbally admitting to it as part of a weird scum strategy to do... something. (I believe you said avoid scumhunting, but IDK how that would even work)
Choices not public. Just asked the mod.
I guess I should stop assuming the game=the MAfia game.
But we can expect town to tell the truth about results and unless the pair consists of two scum, it should be tough to lie about results.
Yes. Actually this is a point I was going to make.
Since results are private, I'm thinking we should open up every Day by claiming who our pair was and, if we Betray... why we did. If we had a special reason for Allying besides townreading them then that can be noted too.
If a person who Betrayed you doesn't claim it start of Day, you can claim that and then your partner can explain why they didn't claim it.
This is mostly for expediency's sake. If everyone claimed "I was Betrayed!" then we ask why etc. when they were probably already maybe going to claim it.
Saves a post, and prevents misunderstandings where scum could come in and claim BETRAYED and push on their partner.
So most of lngrrr's iso is talking about betraying. and aside from the fact its just mechanics that was based on incorrect information, its from a really nonsolving place. like, if lngrrr thinks whatever hes purporting to think why is he spilling it all before at least one round of dilemmas? its an attempt to look towny, but it misses the mark because it actively takes away his own ability to scumhunt according to his theory.
@Killjoy, you sure you arent just voting Osi because you did all the work to ISO him? You think others are scummier, right? If so why are you voting him? Why isolate Orb instead of any other player, like DBS or Whisper?
and then this.
he doesnt actually say anything here.
just, redirecting killjoy.
not exactly sure how to find lngrrr's buddies within this with the way he bussed in low fantasy
OF COURSE THERE MAY BE TIMES WHEN SOMEONE BETRAYS AND IS TOWN. THERE ARE ALSO TIMES WHERE TOWNIES LIE TO GAMBIT. THAT DOESN'T MEAN EITHEROF THISE THINGS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED DE FACTO TOWN BEHAVIOR.
GF, how has information "come to light" because of me? Shin mentioned the 3 BP thing unbidden. I mentioned I had 4. Then Osi claimed, and then DBS.. kinda claimed.
Which of these do you blame on me?
Feel free to vote me. The sword of Damocles you think you're holding is merely Nerf.
and this just reads like cftwr (Caught For The Wrong Reasons)
happy with my vote.
Hm. I'm currently trying to decide if its more worth my time to ISO LngrrR or to towncase Dawn since several people seem to disagree with me that she's town.
So I'll ask you: Which is more important... proving Dawn town or (potentially) proving LnGrrR scum?
Reading that whole claim and retraction fiasco gave me a headache. Can we all try to post less when we're unsure of our facts? Please?
Anyway LnGrrrR needs to eat the noose. Focusing his entire game on the A/B mechanism and not having the facts right is just too much. I've explained my Iso read several times (good interactions with Axelrod and Az despite the pockety feel and I liked his previous interactions with DBS) with his new interactions with DBS he's way up my town reads.
*eyebrow* Why is LnGrrR getting his facts wrong make him scum?
Also sidenote: I wonder how much accusing people of pocketing you comes from scum. On the surface it seems like smearing someone for townreading you.
I'll spill the beans I'm like 90% certain now that scum have day chat and unvoted the claimed Vig because the Vig has a bad T/S list and they think hes going to hit town.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Did LW claim neutral in #1354? I had to doublecheck when reading it, because given Dawn's "you'll find out my alignment when it suits", I assumed she was neutral when I read her claim.
Also, everyone's claims make no sense to me at all from my perspective. A free roleblocker + vig? A bunch of abilities that are free? Blah.
I don't see why people are viewing Jenna as scummy, other than her "I love Tom forever" post. She talks weird, sure, but that doesn't make someone scum.
@Terry/Tom, you just played scum with me in Fantasy, speaking of which. Since you're both scumreading me, what are the comparisons from my game here to there?
@KJ, I agree that everyone should post results publicly. Having a pair means that it will be hard to claim otherwise, unless the partner winds up dead.
Question: Did you clarify with the mod that your Vig ability won't work unless you have exactly 1 BP?
clarified in-game with Terry. contacting the host doesn't solidify the truth of this claim so I won't bother.
May I ask you to clarify exactly what you are saying here?
What does "contacting the hose doesn't solidify the truth of this claim" mean?
I don't like using the host's name in vain lmao. less 'religiously'..I don't like to sound reliable by saying I've contacted the host etc etc. if I can sort something out during a game, I'll always go that route instead of questioning the host. just a gaming etiquette.
Could this not this lead to an incorrect answer? What does the host do when players believe incorrect rules?
However:
*His progression on various people is weird or nonexistant.
*The way he discusses his scumtells in terms of where they are on the list vs. how scummy he actually views them is scummy.
*Consistant hedging (not super great tell, but could be fencesitting so I'm noting it)
*Quite a bit of fluff. I found myself skipping a lot of posts for being completely useless or just answering basic questions and whatnot.
So, I think in the macro perspective, Osie is scum. Vote Osie
So yea, red things bad. Bold things good. Italic things either. strikethroughs irrelevent.
And now, I'm taking a break.
Okay, so I saw this and felt extremely uncompelled by your stance, here. It feels like you're hedging your osi read - "He's townie for these reasons, buuut this is why I think he's scum" - but going for it, anyway.
Then your follow-up post later on:
Quote from Killjoy »
I'm currently more sure that Osie is scum than my other scumreads atm, because I just physically read their entire game at once and confidence in Osie!scum is at it's peak.
read to me like you just didn't really want to put in any work into casing anybody else because you just did all of the work on your osi post. It's phrased significantly differently from how I remember reading it, but that was the impression I was left with upon reading it.
Does it make sense to you, now, why I was under the impression that you didn't actually believe your case on osi? You used a really soft stance to conclude your big post, and then followed it with, "Well, this is the best scumread I have right now."
I mean... how do you expect an objective view of someone's play to end? Am I supposed to just forget that I noted potential towntells? No, and if you read anyone's ISO you're going to fins scummy things and townie things. Including them in my conclusion was solely poiunting out their existence. I believe my language correctly indicated that I thought he was scum. I mean, I made a whole list and everything.
Of course I didn't wanna do any more work. That Osie case took like 7 hours. **** casing other people after that (at least immediately).
Also, I understood that "he doesn't believe his attack" in some sort of subconscous nextlevel stuff that I could concievably doing as scum, was your underlying point. I got that.You don't know my alignment, so trying to deduce what I'm thinking as scum is one of your goals. Fine.
The part that made me wtf was that you seemed to be saying not that I just disbelieved my case, but that I was verbally admitting to it as part of a weird scum strategy to do... something. (I believe you said avoid scumhunting, but IDK how that would even work)
Choices not public. Just asked the mod.
I guess I should stop assuming the game=the MAfia game.
But we can expect town to tell the truth about results and unless the pair consists of two scum, it should be tough to lie about results.
Yes. Actually this is a point I was going to make.
Since results are private, I'm thinking we should open up every Day by claiming who our pair was and, if we Betray... why we did. If we had a special reason for Allying besides townreading them then that can be noted too.
If a person who Betrayed you doesn't claim it start of Day, you can claim that and then your partner can explain why they didn't claim it.
This is mostly for expediency's sake. If everyone claimed "I was Betrayed!" then we ask why etc. when they were probably already maybe going to claim it.
Saves a post, and prevents misunderstandings where scum could come in and claim BETRAYED and push on their partner.
So most of lngrrr's iso is talking about betraying. and aside from the fact its just mechanics that was based on incorrect information, its from a really nonsolving place. like, if lngrrr thinks whatever hes purporting to think why is he spilling it all before at least one round of dilemmas? its an attempt to look towny, but it misses the mark because it actively takes away his own ability to scumhunt according to his theory.
@Killjoy, you sure you arent just voting Osi because you did all the work to ISO him? You think others are scummier, right? If so why are you voting him? Why isolate Orb instead of any other player, like DBS or Whisper?
and then this.
he doesnt actually say anything here.
just, redirecting killjoy.
not exactly sure how to find lngrrr's buddies within this with the way he bussed in low fantasy
OF COURSE THERE MAY BE TIMES WHEN SOMEONE BETRAYS AND IS TOWN. THERE ARE ALSO TIMES WHERE TOWNIES LIE TO GAMBIT. THAT DOESN'T MEAN EITHEROF THISE THINGS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED DE FACTO TOWN BEHAVIOR.
GF, how has information "come to light" because of me? Shin mentioned the 3 BP thing unbidden. I mentioned I had 4. Then Osi claimed, and then DBS.. kinda claimed.
Which of these do you blame on me?
Feel free to vote me. The sword of Damocles you think you're holding is merely Nerf.
and this just reads like cftwr (Caught For The Wrong Reasons)
happy with my vote.
Hm. I'm currently trying to decide if its more worth my time to ISO LngrrR or to towncase Dawn since several people seem to disagree with me that she's town.
So I'll ask you: Which is more important... proving Dawn town or (potentially) proving LnGrrR scum?
Reading that whole claim and retraction fiasco gave me a headache. Can we all try to post less when we're unsure of our facts? Please?
Anyway LnGrrrR needs to eat the noose. Focusing his entire game on the A/B mechanism and not having the facts right is just too much. I've explained my Iso read several times (good interactions with Axelrod and Az despite the pockety feel and I liked his previous interactions with DBS) with his new interactions with DBS he's way up my town reads.
*eyebrow* Why is LnGrrR getting his facts wrong make him scum?
Also sidenote: I wonder how much accusing people of pocketing you comes from scum. On the surface it seems like smearing someone for townreading you.
I'll spill the beans I'm like 90% certain now that scum have day chat and unvoted the claimed Vig because the Vig has a bad T/S list and they think hes going to hit town.
Did LW claim neutral in #1354? I had to doublecheck when reading it, because given Dawn's "you'll find out my alignment when it suits", I assumed she was neutral when I read her claim.
Also, everyone's claims make no sense to me at all from my perspective. A free roleblocker + vig? A bunch of abilities that are free? Blah.
I don't see why people are viewing Jenna as scummy, other than her "I love Tom forever" post. She talks weird, sure, but that doesn't make someone scum.
@Terry/Tom, you just played scum with me in Fantasy, speaking of which. Since you're both scumreading me, what are the comparisons from my game here to there?
@KJ, I agree that everyone should post results publicly. Having a pair means that it will be hard to claim otherwise, unless the partner winds up dead.
i dont recall breadcrumbing anything, but let me take a look at that post, but im not tpr thats for sure
Did LW claim neutral in #1354? I had to doublecheck when reading it, because given Dawn's "you'll find out my alignment when it suits", I assumed she was neutral when I read her claim.
Also, everyone's claims make no sense to me at all from my perspective. A free roleblocker + vig? A bunch of abilities that are free? Blah.
I don't see why people are viewing Jenna as scummy, other than her "I love Tom forever" post. She talks weird, sure, but that doesn't make someone scum.
@Terry/Tom, you just played scum with me in Fantasy, speaking of which. Since you're both scumreading me, what are the comparisons from my game here to there?
@KJ, I agree that everyone should post results publicly. Having a pair means that it will be hard to claim otherwise, unless the partner winds up dead.
i dont recall breadcrumbing anything, but let me take a look at that post, but im not tpr thats for sure
#1354
where is the correlation in being betrayed and being forced to out your PR? Maybe explain it to me? I'm betraying, end of story, get out over it. And I'm not ***** town or scum lol
ohh i see lmao, I was answering DV's post, he said if I betray I'm either bad town, or scum, I said im bad town, or scum lol, but I used a word that got censored, so I see how you would think I said, "not town or scum," but that censored word is important...
Did LW claim neutral in #1354? I had to doublecheck when reading it, because given Dawn's "you'll find out my alignment when it suits", I assumed she was neutral when I read her claim.
Also, everyone's claims make no sense to me at all from my perspective. A free roleblocker + vig? A bunch of abilities that are free? Blah.
I don't see why people are viewing Jenna as scummy, other than her "I love Tom forever" post. She talks weird, sure, but that doesn't make someone scum.
@Terry/Tom, you just played scum with me in Fantasy, speaking of which. Since you're both scumreading me, what are the comparisons from my game here to there?
@KJ, I agree that everyone should post results publicly. Having a pair means that it will be hard to claim otherwise, unless the partner winds up dead.
i dont recall breadcrumbing anything, but let me take a look at that post, but im not tpr thats for sure
#1354
where is the correlation in being betrayed and being forced to out your PR? Maybe explain it to me? I'm betraying, end of story, get out over it. And I'm not ***** town or scum lol
ohh i see lmao, I was answering DV's post, he said if I betray I'm either bad town, or scum, I said im bad town, or scum lol, but I used a word that got censored, so I see how you would think I said, "not town or scum," but that censored word is important...
im not bad town or scum*, my playstyle is different but I dont think i've ever caused the town to lose directly from my actions a lone, ive made mistakes in reads before, and im head strong most of the time, which has caused me to catch scum, and also lynch town I was sure were scum lol
Man. I don't want to fall in ye olde mod-gaming trap, but I keep coming back to Bur's statement that this is an Az setup, and giving the scum players two different high-powered roles to choose between for their fake-claims is 100% something that I would do/have done from a design standpoint. Why would the town need a combination vig and roleblocker? Why aren't those roles split up? Why concentrate that much role power in a single person, if the slot is town-aligned?
Gonna need to reread him, but still dying at the moment just to keep pace during the week.
Man. I don't want to fall in ye olde mod-gaming trap, but I keep coming back to Bur's statement that this is an Az setup, and giving the scum players two different high-powered roles to choose between for their fake-claims is 100% something that I would do/have done from a design standpoint. Why would the town need a combination vig and roleblocker? Why aren't those roles split up? Why concentrate that much role power in a single person, if the slot is town-aligned?
Gonna need to reread him, but still dying at the moment just to keep pace during the week.
but then again why would mafia need a double role? and these roles are balance around BP, like some people dont start with enough bp to use their secondary abilities. Its def difficult at this point to see the need for a role being so strong, but its also off set by bp...
I just read through Jenna's ISO, trying to make sense of things. I really don't know what to think; I'm not confident in her being scum, I think the way she posts invites ambiguity. Can those people strongly scum reading her go through why her posts are specifically scum minded rather than just difficult? (Also, somewhat hilarious but not necessarily scummy or townie was her post about sarcasm making it difficult for her to understand people. Beautifully ironic)
I think Dawning's claim is more likely to be scum in this setup, and the continued back and forth about how her abilities actually work is something that she as scum can use to her advantage. I think giving her the night to prove her role is still the right move? At least having a night and seeing what shakes out anyway.
but then again why would mafia need a double role? and these roles are balance around BP, like some people dont start with enough bp to use their secondary abilities. Its def difficult at this point to see the need for a role being so strong, but its also off set by bp...
My most recent setup, Disinheritance (from earlier this year), which appears to be the design predecessor and inspiration for this game, had some pretty close similarities. Disinheritance allowed players to transfer points between one another, and to publicly vote to empower players with additional points during the day. Players could then spend those points to power their abilities. Typically, townies had one strong ability, and one lower costed ability. The scum, on the other hand, had a swiss army knife setup of 3-4 abilities, some of which were fairly innocent sounding and safe to claim, and some of which were more (read: very) exotic or clearly scum-oriented in nature. They also got an extra measure of points.
While the execution by Bur is creative and original in a number of respects, this setup shares a lot of that older design's philosophy, in a number of interesting ways. It utilizes the same principles that predicting other players' assignments, actions, and allocating the town's resources effectively should be essential mechanics for the town to figure out - and for the scum to undermine in devious fashion.
If Bur is also utilizing some of the same philosophy as to designing and balancing the scum rules, by giving them additional utility and versatility in role-claims and night actions, that certainly casts a shadow onto DBS's claim.
Again, I don't want to make a decision based on that alone, but it is enough of a question mark to make me want to do a very careful reread of DBS's posts and see what I might find there.
My work computer got taken to get fixed for something, all my bookmarks/passwords got wiped, and now I can no longer log in to MTGS on it (it’s because Twitch is blocked, I *think*, and you now have to log in with your Twitch credentials?). Problem is I can’t very well complain about it either. Posting this from my phone. It’s a huge issue if I’m going to have to do all my posting from home in the evenings. Sry.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
(it’s because Twitch is blocked, I *think*, and you now have to log in with your Twitch credentials?).
I think it's still technically possible to log in with an email...
Only if you haven't merged, then it insists that you merge before you visit anything. Okay. So you could theoretically visit the site without logging in, then post once you can log in. It's not a great solution, but it's something.
I am currently wondering why Dawn said she wouldn’t reveal her title because it hinted at her other ability when her title is “daredevil” and the other ability was “Roleblocker.”
I am also wondering how this seems like such an insanely powered role when my own role is ... not. Like, the “balance” is non-existent.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I am currently wondering why Dawn said she wouldn’t reveal her title because it hinted at her other ability when her title is “daredevil” and the other ability was “Roleblocker.”
I am also wondering how this seems like such an insanely powered role when my own role is ... not. Like, the “balance” is non-existent.
the balance is that its a one shot, and she cant even back on using it tonight, because if she gets betrayed she will die. and the only way she will get it again after using it, is if she gets a few betrays off
I'm trying to remember but someone said they didn't want to lynch a potential vig and voted me demanding a full claim. must be Grapefruit or DV. ... no wait, I think it was Axelrod..he didn't feel keen on lynching me but voted me anyways, wanting to see the full claim - it's a very..claim or die notion for someone he never really scumread.
yeah that was definitely not me.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I am currently wondering why Dawn said she wouldn’t reveal her title because it hinted at her other ability when her title is “daredevil” and the other ability was “Roleblocker.”
I am currently wondering why Dawn said she wouldn’t reveal her title because it hinted at her other ability when her title is “daredevil” and the other ability was “Roleblocker.”
I am also wondering how this seems like such an insanely powered role when my own role is ... not. Like, the “balance” is non-existent.
the balance is that its a one shot, and she cant even back on using it tonight, because if she gets betrayed she will die. and the only way she will get it again after using it, is if she gets a few betrays off
Ok, we can definitely Lynch these two now. I did not see a single post implying that these were one shot abilities. Can someone please double check this for me? I will too, but I want another person to corroborate with me on this. The only way Last Whisper would know it's a one-shot was if they were scum together.
I am currently wondering why Dawn said she wouldn’t reveal her title because it hinted at her other ability when her title is “daredevil” and the other ability was “Roleblocker.”
I am also wondering how this seems like such an insanely powered role when my own role is ... not. Like, the “balance” is non-existent.
the balance is that its a one shot, and she cant even back on using it tonight, because if she gets betrayed she will die. and the only way she will get it again after using it, is if she gets a few betrays off
I don’t remember DBS saying either of these things.
Won’t say for certain she didn’t because I’m way behind and only skimmed the last couple game days, but normally I’d pay attention to claims like that
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I’m going cross-eyed doing this on my phone. I might have a solution to get the work comp. working again, but it involves my taking it home with me tonight (getting around the network firewall I think).
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
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What does "contacting the hose doesn't solidify the truth of this claim" mean?
is this an important question to ask?
what question is that? are you trying to say you're tunneling on me? hmm.. tunneling can happen when a player blinds the said person's field of vision in one way or another.
Be grateful, always."
Your implying people only see u scummy for your claim, I also stand by what I said before which was that there wasnt even a reason for you to claim in the first place. Also do you really think I scum read you because of your vigilante claim alone? Its your words that bother me and get me worried.
Another thing, why are you using the use of wine to discredit why your actions arent scummy. Do you think I don't know what considered wine and whats not, do you think I just gonna be like hey she claimed vigilante insta town oh she claimed roleblocker insta scum oh she claimed both i guess ill just throw hew in the neutral pile. That isn't how it works lmfao.
I am literally asking how someone can make another person tunnel cause you stated your tunneling because your being tunneled lol.
Can u really read me well?
It actually is to me, since while I always put myself as cleared town, I could see reasons for either alignment why people might put themselves in a non-town position, and I'm intrigued to know why she's doing it.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
no. I'm explaining why I said it "nullifies the clearance" since you so politely asked for it. what are you trying to imply here? that I'm making up excuses? nope. just explaining.
Be grateful, always."
could say yeah, I can read you well. not like Mish who reads me too well and throws me off every time lol
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
you can stop the nightkill with an ability cost of 0?
Are you pointing out a scumtell on yourself?
This theory sounds good, but doesn't pass the sniff test. When you look at the unvotes that came quickly most of them were people DBS was scum reading (because her reads have seemed to be heavy on OMGUS).
What are you talking about? People said that was a natural progression for Terry to make? I've never said not reading your PM correctly is NAI.
"to those saying my post on Terry looks like a natural progression"
This reads like you're disagreeing with people saying that YOUR post is natural.
thats, you know, different
I figured it was possibly just a weird sentence construction.
Discussing the Role PM formatting is not allowed.
If you have questions about your role, ask me or Proph and we'll answer you.
(And the OP contains an example Role PM, just for your information)
Of course I didn't wanna do any more work. That Osie case took like 7 hours. **** casing other people after that (at least immediately).
Also, I understood that "he doesn't believe his attack" in some sort of subconscous nextlevel stuff that I could concievably doing as scum, was your underlying point. I got that.You don't know my alignment, so trying to deduce what I'm thinking as scum is one of your goals. Fine.
The part that made me wtf was that you seemed to be saying not that I just disbelieved my case, but that I was verbally admitting to it as part of a weird scum strategy to do... something. (I believe you said avoid scumhunting, but IDK how that would even work)
Yes. Actually this is a point I was going to make.
Since results are private, I'm thinking we should open up every Day by claiming who our pair was and, if we Betray... why we did. If we had a special reason for Allying besides townreading them then that can be noted too.
If a person who Betrayed you doesn't claim it start of Day, you can claim that and then your partner can explain why they didn't claim it.
This is mostly for expediency's sake. If everyone claimed "I was Betrayed!" then we ask why etc. when they were probably already maybe going to claim it.
Saves a post, and prevents misunderstandings where scum could come in and claim BETRAYED and push on their partner.
Shin officially likely town.
She's giving me a... has no idea what's going on vibe.
Hm. I'm currently trying to decide if its more worth my time to ISO LngrrR or to towncase Dawn since several people seem to disagree with me that she's town.
So I'll ask you: Which is more important... proving Dawn town or (potentially) proving LnGrrR scum?
*eyebrow* Why is LnGrrR getting his facts wrong make him scum?
Also sidenote: I wonder how much accusing people of pocketing you comes from scum. On the surface it seems like smearing someone for townreading you.
Eyyyy its Kabazombe
Are you sure this doesn't mean that your abilities COST 3/1 BP?
Err no it didn't. It could easily be either.
But you didn't break your posting record in the chat so the win doesn't count.
Also, everyone's claims make no sense to me at all from my perspective. A free roleblocker + vig? A bunch of abilities that are free? Blah.
I don't see why people are viewing Jenna as scummy, other than her "I love Tom forever" post. She talks weird, sure, but that doesn't make someone scum.
@Terry/Tom, you just played scum with me in Fantasy, speaking of which. Since you're both scumreading me, what are the comparisons from my game here to there?
@KJ, I agree that everyone should post results publicly. Having a pair means that it will be hard to claim otherwise, unless the partner winds up dead.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I am Sigma, and I start with 3 BP but my ability only costs 2, How I thought otherwise is bizarre.
Oh oh, a quiz for everyone. Are we on a ship, in a facility, or in a tower in the desert?
#1354
ohh i see lmao, I was answering DV's post, he said if I betray I'm either bad town, or scum, I said im bad town, or scum lol, but I used a word that got censored, so I see how you would think I said, "not town or scum," but that censored word is important...
Gonna need to reread him, but still dying at the moment just to keep pace during the week.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I think Dawning's claim is more likely to be scum in this setup, and the continued back and forth about how her abilities actually work is something that she as scum can use to her advantage. I think giving her the night to prove her role is still the right move? At least having a night and seeing what shakes out anyway.
Gonna ISO lngrrr next, might be in a few hours.
Jenna Tolaria (3): Iso, D_V, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
LnGrrrR (3): tomsloger, Grapefruit21, Azrael
dawningbluesky (2): Shinichi, LnGrrrR
osieorb18 (2): BluesEclipse, Killjoy
tomsloger (1): Axelrod
Iso (2): Lastwhisper, Jenna Tolaria
Axelrod (1): dawningbluesky
Not Voting (3): Megiddo, Phoenix-Fire, osieorb18
With 17 alive, it’s 9 to lynch. The deadline is Tuesday, November 7th at 11.59 pm EST.
My most recent setup, Disinheritance (from earlier this year), which appears to be the design predecessor and inspiration for this game, had some pretty close similarities. Disinheritance allowed players to transfer points between one another, and to publicly vote to empower players with additional points during the day. Players could then spend those points to power their abilities. Typically, townies had one strong ability, and one lower costed ability. The scum, on the other hand, had a swiss army knife setup of 3-4 abilities, some of which were fairly innocent sounding and safe to claim, and some of which were more (read: very) exotic or clearly scum-oriented in nature. They also got an extra measure of points.
While the execution by Bur is creative and original in a number of respects, this setup shares a lot of that older design's philosophy, in a number of interesting ways. It utilizes the same principles that predicting other players' assignments, actions, and allocating the town's resources effectively should be essential mechanics for the town to figure out - and for the scum to undermine in devious fashion.
If Bur is also utilizing some of the same philosophy as to designing and balancing the scum rules, by giving them additional utility and versatility in role-claims and night actions, that certainly casts a shadow onto DBS's claim.
Again, I don't want to make a decision based on that alone, but it is enough of a question mark to make me want to do a very careful reread of DBS's posts and see what I might find there.
I think it's still technically possible to log in with an email...
Only if you haven't merged, then it insists that you merge before you visit anything. Okay. So you could theoretically visit the site without logging in, then post once you can log in. It's not a great solution, but it's something.
Anyways, what do you think of Dawning's claim?
I am also wondering how this seems like such an insanely powered role when my own role is ... not. Like, the “balance” is non-existent.
The superhero, maybe?
I wouldn't be surprised if some roles are swingier than others. But I'd be surprised if it's completely unbalanced.
Won’t say for certain she didn’t because I’m way behind and only skimmed the last couple game days, but normally I’d pay attention to claims like that