@Joe Terry
If Azrael is lying and the real doctor dies tonight after lynching Phoenix, we'll never know. This would be a free lynch with role flips but without we have nothing to go on. Scum benefits from this obviously.
Furthermore, if scum has a rolecop they pretty much get infinite use Janitor which is insanely powerful.
If Phoenix is telling the truth, his role is very beneficial to town, not only in providing information but also preventing scum from using the confusion to their benefit. Thus there's no reason to lynch him now when the rest of the scum team is still at large anyway.
This leads me to two theories:
Phoenix is town and JoeTerry is trying to kill him to make the game no flip, under the guise of his role being beneficial to scum. Terry knows this is not the case, but he's playing dumb so he doesn't get crucified after Phoenix flips
Phoenix is scum and JoeTerry is trying to make it not look suspicious when he isn't Night Killed, or he's trying to bus him to get town cred. Whether the lynch goes through or not it's a win-win
either way I think Terry is scum because he's pushing the Phoenix lynch too hard today when it's not the right play yet, and because this thing about the role being more beneficial to scum than town is pure rubbish. I don't think this is just him being wrong either, he's
Also he betrayed me Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I have more to say on him but I don't have time right now. Expect a big post later tonight!
@Joe Terry
If Azrael is lying and the real doctor dies tonight after lynching Phoenix, we'll never know. This would be a free lynch with role flips but without we have nothing to go on. Scum benefits from this obviously.
Furthermore, if scum has a rolecop they pretty much get infinite use Janitor which is insanely powerful.
If Phoenix is telling the truth, his role is very beneficial to town, not only in providing information but also preventing scum from using the confusion to their benefit. Thus there's no reason to lynch him now when the rest of the scum team is still at large anyway.
This leads me to two theories:
Phoenix is town and JoeTerry is trying to kill him to make the game no flip, under the guise of his role being beneficial to scum. Terry knows this is not the case, but he's playing dumb so he doesn't get crucified after Phoenix flips
Phoenix is scum and JoeTerry is trying to make it not look suspicious when he isn't Night Killed, or he's trying to bus him to get town cred. Whether the lynch goes through or not it's a win-win
either way I think Terry is scum because he's pushing the Phoenix lynch too hard today when it's not the right play yet, and because this thing about the role being more beneficial to scum than town is pure rubbish. I don't think this is just him being wrong either, he's
Also he betrayed me Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I have more to say on him but I don't have time right now. Expect a big post later tonight!
uhmm
1. what???
2. he betrayed u because u looked like lurking scum...
3. what???
4. I probably wont yield to anything but a phoenix or Osie lynch at this point, does that make me scum too?
5. Wait terry is scum in both your scenarios? lmao...
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
ya my vote is locked on Osie, if you want to tell me his behavior is of town, then fine, but im not changing my vote... and if you want to vote me, thats also fine...
Osie
You've been town hunting to be honest...
At least lynch Killjoy before Osieorb in that case. How do you reconcile a world where Killjoy is town and Osieorb is mafia?
Are you really saying shin is the correct play over the tracked guilty?
Being tagged by a watcher would be a lot more damning than being tagged by a tracker, with a plausible explanation and a squeaky clean behavioral record. I'm not terribly ecstatic about the role explanation and the possible mod retcon, but I think there are far superior targets from a behavioral standpoint.
In what world does a mafia player not know who he is targeting after the night is over?
Since you don't want to try to convince me that Last is town, can you at least try to convince me that Shin is scum? I'm not really seeing a case on either of them from you, and I'm significantly more willing to believe that Shin is scum than I am to believe that Last is town or Phoenix is scum.
I've already explained my townread on Last: his scummy behavior was neutral to me, but that early D1 tie was enough to give him a townlean. must I repeat myself everytime?
as for Shin, the way he brought up a potential counterclaim late, besides hammering a townread of his, doesn't look good.
As I believe I have said, I have you straining the boundary between neutral and townlean, barring something overwhelmingly townie, or an Az townflip. You are part of one world, but you could definitely be town irregardless of the alignments of Last and Az.
then why do you want to question my posts more than, say, Tom/LnG/Killjoy? it will lead nowhere if I'm a neutral/townlean for you.
@dawning
It bugs me you want people to take your meta read on whisper as law but are just... actively ignoring me and az's meta read on Iso. We've both explained it fairly well imo. He's not solving the game like iso solves games.
And is straight up flaunting that with his bull***** links to his iso which is, like, totally my move.
looking into playstyles help your judgement. I explained Last's playstyle to you since he has a terrible time doing so, and I'm sure you have a better idea of how I play. feel free to figure things out from there. I never said my word is law, but if you're trying to discredit a metaread...that's hilarious. I've seen and considered Iso's meta and he hasn't behaved otherwise, just less aggressive - and he's mentioned some life issues that got in the way. there's also the possibility of tampering with meta, and I know since I do that frequently. Last is least likely, or even capable, of tampering with his meta since he has much to learn....which also explains his heavy reliance on meta, since he's not familiar with the tampering possibilities. I factor in everything before coming to a conclusion. Iso has more depth to decipher compared to Last, that is why I'm taking longer to figure him out.
1.Ok when do i not tunnel miss meta? If you cant answer that properly then you cant possible see anything wrong with my acitons.
2.It wasnt a counter claim 2 other people have clarly pointed out the differences actually your the only one who thinks its a counterclaim tbf lol, so likewise I don't care aobut this mechanical aspect you keep going back to. Cause again if I was scum why the hell would I wait till now to counterclaim, i aint an idiot i know how to play the game.
3. Well I mean if you get lynched and flipp town ill still be flipping town, but I highly doubt your going to flip town with that role claim of yours.
4.I don't but am i going to let myself get patronized? No of course not if I have to ill step outside my comfort zone.
5.Delayed? If I am partnered with Phoenix and I betray him he will be role blocked that night. I obviously cant control it, so is this your way of justfiying my lynch is ok when your only able to clear yourself after night 3.
6. Petty is one thing I am not, and i dont bring personal feelings into this game so please reframe from continuing to bring that up over and over its annoying.
1. personal insults so far: acting like a god, so smart, miss meta(new). may I ask why the personal attacks?
I have seen genuine tunnels from you as town, but they don't stay on 1 person if it accomplishes nothing - your only vote on me is doing nothing.
2. when you fullclaimed, you included the non-factional kill line. sure sounds like you wanted to counterclaim me right there and then~ could have done that earlier, so we could all sort it out before forcing you to mislynch your townread. you even proceeded to blame anyone who is frustrated at Grapefruit's lack of claiming, Dawn and Azrael - yet you put Last at L2 to make him claim, and unvoted as a way to say that's what town should do.
3. case and lynch me then. a single vote won't do anything to me and you know it. you aren't exactly pushing my case. why?
4. in what way do you feel patronized?
5. scum won't waste their actions on proving themselves to town. even if you're partnered with Phoenix, that doesn't mean you will roleblock him.
6. what I say to others isn't directed at you, but you address those to call me petty. I don't think you should be annoyed if you're the one to bring it up.
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Joe Terry
If Azrael is lying and the real doctor dies tonight after lynching Phoenix, we'll never know. This would be a free lynch with role flips but without we have nothing to go on. Scum benefits from this obviously.
Furthermore, if scum has a rolecop they pretty much get infinite use Janitor which is insanely powerful.
If Phoenix is telling the truth, his role is very beneficial to town, not only in providing information but also preventing scum from using the confusion to their benefit. Thus there's no reason to lynch him now when the rest of the scum team is still at large anyway.
This leads me to two theories:
Phoenix is town and JoeTerry is trying to kill him to make the game no flip, under the guise of his role being beneficial to scum. Terry knows this is not the case, but he's playing dumb so he doesn't get crucified after Phoenix flips
Phoenix is scum and JoeTerry is trying to make it not look suspicious when he isn't Night Killed, or he's trying to bus him to get town cred. Whether the lynch goes through or not it's a win-win
either way I think Terry is scum because he's pushing the Phoenix lynch too hard today when it's not the right play yet, and because this thing about the role being more beneficial to scum than town is pure rubbish. I don't think this is just him being wrong either, he's
Also he betrayed me Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I have more to say on him but I don't have time right now. Expect a big post later tonight!
Umm, he has a guilty track with a Swiss cheese role claim. This is by all means the correct Lynch. You were a cop last game we played, if you got a scum read on someone and they came up with a role that excused them as scum, would you think it's ok not to Lynch them? I wish I didn't have to keep explaining this:
With the role flips hidden, mafia, who haven't claimed, don't know what claims are safe and what ones are not. When they see a town Cop role flip, they know they can't claim cop and likewise there will not be a cop left in the set up. If the cop were to die with no flip revealed, mafia wouldn't know if cop is a safe claim or not. It's not that hard of a concept. I do see the issue you're taking with the claims that are already in play, therefore:
UNVOTE, I still think he's guilty scum, but the people I want to vote keep making "convenient claims"
You didn't need to vote me to convince me of that. Yeah I betrayed you. You had 15 posts since you entered the game. I didn't want to risk giving up 3 points to you because I thought the slot you replaced in was in scum lurk mode.
Funnily enough, Gentleman Johnny claimed Doc (as scum) in the 2016 Invitational, and I still strongly advocated his lynch immediately afterwards; Az was in that game and it should come as no surprise that I would advocate his lynch after his Doc claim.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Funnily enough, Gentleman Johnny claimed Doc (as scum) in the 2016 Invitational, and I still strongly advocated his lynch immediately afterwards; Az was in that game and it should come as no surprise that I would advocate his lynch after his Doc claim.
I'm not sure if we should play that game again... lol. you claimed first and under pressure, so the reading is awkward when going into the next phase. I might look into Tom for technically bringing out the noodle!Iso excuse, and making dichotomies with of few players for a while.
for now, I'd rather go with Osie. will be looking up other players. Vote: osieorb18
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@kj
Do you disagree with the methodical or the wishy washy?
Because I stand by both.
Literally said I disagree with the methodical.
Methodical and wishywashy are usually mutually exclusive, so therefore I do not think you think both these things of me.
Feel free to prove both.
[quote from="Killjoy »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/784906-zero-escape-mafia-day-2-unlucky-seven?comment=5343"]Yeah, I pondered it for a second around posting Neighbour Chat #28/#29, and then decided there was no way that I'd trust you to actually agree to it, or hold by it, and bringing myself down to 1 for that was too risky.
I'm the one who suggested it though. I agreed to it first. Why didn't you reconsider at post 30? We had time then.
No he confirmed it at post 32, 2 hours after we discussed that. We could have changed out submission before that. Even after the chat closed, as long as Day hadn't started yet.
You're making excuses. I know better for being in the chat. You're trying to convince others that you had no choice. That's wrong. You did.
You literally said "I'm not scumreading you anymore" then said you were, as if you'd forgotten that you weren't.
I'm willing to lynch:
Osie, tom, Kaba? (I agree with whoever said he jumped on that whole 'Pheonix has a crazy role' train really quickly.) And I think Jenna. I dislike how quickly she dropped Pheonix as a target after catching him target DV and is focused on me/Osie now, as if she knows Pheonix didn't kill DV. Also pushing me before Osie. Osie/Jenna team possible for sure.
I'm still not sure Az/Iso are anywhere close to a dichotomy, so don't want to lynch either atm.
Dawn still town.
I have this nagging gut feeling that Last is town. There were at least two occasions that people tried to push him today by saying "These people have expressed desire to lynch Last. Lets get on that". Maybe that was just Osie. Still holds true though. It feels weird.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So yeah, not lynching Az,Iso,Phoenix,Last,Dawn.
Torn on Terry. I feel like a lot of what he's saying comes from a town perspective, but how he's saying it feels iffy. like
UNVOTE, I still think he's guilty scum, but the people I want to vote keep making "convenient claims"
This feels like genuine frustration, but his tone is scummy. I recall thinking that in my first game with him too. I'll say not today for him either.
I'm still thinking Shin is behaviorally town. IDK about his role vs. others. Not enough info there I think.
LngrrR... I could lynch him I think. Behaviorally he hasn't been the best and his role seems distinctly underwhelming.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Seven: Testing, testing. Hey, it's great to see you all here. I just flew in from New York, and boy are my arms tired! Yes, thank you, I'll be here all week! Try the veal! Junpei: That's not a mic, Seven. It's... just a shower head. Seven: Wha—?! What the hell?! Junpei: ...
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Well first, we learn Phoenix alignment. With that we will learn Jenna alignment. With the extra info we can learn a lot more about interactions. Then hopefully either AZ or Jenna die at night. That's a lot more productive then lynching anyone else. If phoenix dies scum, Jenna is towntron. If phoenix flips town, we can probably still trust jenna, and all we lose is role flips. If a town is about to get lynched we claim, no big deal. It probably hurts scum as much as town.
Considering all that, do we want to go down as the town that didn't act on a tracked murdering scum if phoenix is scum and made a pretty far fetched claim?
Ps, I can't imagine a scenerio where jenna is scum and did this. Can anyone else?
Okay to summarize this post:
"Things we learn by lynching Phoenix"
"-his alignment"
This isn't a reason to lynch someone, this is a byproduct, you lynch someone because you think they're scum
"-Jenna's alignment"
Except you actually say that Jenna is town regardless, so that isn't actually a valid point.
"We also don't have to worry about having no role information, no big deal, just as bad for scum"
How is this ever bad for scum? Full flips gives town the power of information; not having role info would make solving by actions much harder. Suggesting otherwise is just patently false.
"His claim is far fetched."
So you want to lynch me because there is an uncommon role in a complicated game? If you have actual questions about my role then ask them, I'm more than willing to clarify anything that you or anyone else would like, but right now you're just throwing shade at me.
Why does everyone think it's a crazy role? He's just a Coroner..
I need to reconsider hwat the interactions with Tracker mean since I was likening it to Insane Cop targeting anyone, but the Insane cop is told he's insane and therefore gets to take that into account. The Tracker in this case is not told as such.
Maybe I'm confusing logical fallacies here.
I still think it's POSSIBLE that Pheonix made the kill, but extending probability onto it given that we lack so much info seems illogical.
Here's a fun fact: If I get enough BP, I will be able to prove without a doubt if Pheonix is telling the truth.
Note: not an alignment cop ability though.
I wouldn't really liken it to an insane cop comparison, more like the role that will always come up guilty if they were checked by a cop, except here it's always shown as visiting for trackers.
And if you promise to prove my role, I think I'm okay adding you to the list of people who can betray me. I'll let you know.
Additional: Killjoy, did you read the link you posted?
"In some games, the roles of the dead players are only revealed if the coroner(s) remains alive. In this case, it can be Mafia aligned, creating a dilemma upon revelation."
Just saying.
To jump in here, in no way am I going to say or imply that my role makes me town. My process should make it clear though.
hmmmmm... since Phoenix is a passive 'coroner', he's probably the neutral. a passive that serves a use to the setup, yet doesn't require any BP, seems more fitting for neutral. I have BP requirements so idk how everyone thinks I could be neutral - this means I'm either scum or town, and Shin/Iso is the opposite. yes!
I am town, I am not a neutral. Also please explain the bolded; why do you keep using this "I could be scum" phrasing. Do you think Iso and Shin are scum together?
Like, past-Osie (to steal Jenna's notation for rereads versus current talk) is on post #4042 and there's 10 people in this game (LnGrrrR, Terry, Phoenix, Tom, Iso, Axel, Shinichi, Kabazame, Jenna, Killjoy) who have expressed disliking LW so far in D2, with you and Az being the only people who have expressed liking him.
Make that 12 people counting myself and Cythare.
D_V and GF are dead, Last himself obviously is in the liking category. So why shouldn't some selection of the 12 of us just lynch Last and call it a day? Why are you so convinced that isn't the play?
I really don't like this post. Have you paid attention to whether anyone has changed their mind in this grouping? FYI, I did; Last is not my preferred lynch target, why is he yours? Has anything he's done made you second guess?
I just can't see how we don't lynch phoenix at this point.
that's a good idea. seriously, how confusing can this setup get? but Shin is a good one too. though...it depends if we want to go with the tracker-firmed or terrible counterclaim.
Ewwww, just.....ick. Sanity check, does anyone else get scum-scum vibes from this?
I just can't see how we don't lynch phoenix at this point.
Throw away all of the townie elements throughout the entire game, and potentially throw away flips for the rest of the game? While coroner does not suggest immunity, this just seems like a bad idea.
the fact that u said this makes me want to Lynch Phoenix, but I refuse, so I'll stick with you
I'm sorry what? Someone else defending me makes you want to lynch me? Even if Osi is scum, it's possible he's just white knighting me.[
I just can't see how we don't lynch phoenix at this point.
Throw away all of the townie elements throughout the entire game, and potentially throw away flips for the rest of the game? While coroner does not suggest immunity, this just seems like a bad idea.
it's just roles, not alignment, at least that's how I read his claim.
Correct, name/alignment would still be revealed. And you didn't answer about my behavior at all.
Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
You don't think scum would even think about killing me? Really? And you're completely missing the point of how to use claims and behavior; a scummy player with a "must kill" claim should not be lynched because it wastes a lynch when you can conceivably count on them to be sorted out, it doesn't go the other way just because you don't like someone's role.
Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
So basically, you want to use Jenna as a cop test on Az's claim and inherently, his alignment, by lynching someone else, in this case Phoenix, having Az doctor someone pre-chosen, say, for example, Dawning, and having Jenna track Az? That's... quite legit, actually.
Why not Last as the lynch then, though?
No, I want to lynch phoenix because there are a few holes in his claim and we have a tracker claim confirming he was at the murder scene. Az and jenna can do what they want, but I think they get sorted out tonight.
Again, care to clarify? Or are you just shading me?
It's not that hard. We have a guilty result on Phoenix.
VOTE: Phoenix
Your progression just makes no sense to me. I've not even been here, you haven't even tried to interact with me.
I can't help get the feeling that this is sinister in motivation; your conviction towards me feels generated and calculated, and it lines up with waiting to see if I'm mislynchable, and when other people expressed suspicion of me, you knew that pushing me was safe.
1. Lynches: SO you think he visits the lynchee after there lynched to give us role info?
2. Multiple kills: I have a hard time imagining a role that has to be in two places at once.
3. Bur has never hidden role info before.
1. ...yes...I'm not sure what your problem is here. My role provides flip info for anyone that dies, how is this a problem.
2. Why? Do you not believe that multi-targeting exists?
3. I can't really speak for this one; I know what my role does, saying it can't exist because a mod hasn't made it before isn't something I can argue against except to say that your just wrong. And generating a read based off of predicting the mod is not a smart way to play.
Axel, pow wow with me here. I don't think we can NOT Lynch phoenix. I get that he's been relatively townish, but Az has been super scummy. We are OK not lynching Az because he's been scummy, but claimed a town role. However, Phoenix is the opposite, he's been towny, but claimed a scum role AND got tracked to the N1 kill site.
I mean Jenna, clearly tracked Phoenix there (we are in agreement that this is too complex to be a S/S gambit, which is the only situation where I think Jenna is scum). So we have a tracker and a role that visits the dead person/people every night? Seems borderline bastard to me. I mean Phoenix would have been the perfect scum to send to do the factional kill precisely because he's been vernally town read. I also don't like how many people have been acting like his claim means that we won't get alignment info, which is all I really care about. If he is telling the truth (which I doubt), it's not a big deal if we don't see that the next person we Lynch is the BP counter and knows how much BP target player has (totally made up).
Holy crap really? "His claim has some holes" suddenly becomes "he claimed a scum role"?! I just don't buy it. Vote Terry
And my role is no more setup breaking than the role that always cop checks guilty (I feel dumb, I can't remember what that's called)
another thing that makes Phoenix's claim odd is how he voted Jenna right away, since town would normally question a tracker's results or even their alignment. the overly-defensive and omgus behavior doesn't look as town(?) as it may seem.
I'm fine with voting Phoenix, but I'd prefer Shin since he's apparently a roleblocker...
So you think I'm scummy for voting someone who I believed was lying scum? So if someone claimed a check on you that you KNOW is false, you wouldn't snap vote them?
Regarding shin, do you, or do you not think you and him are a dichotomy?
Phoenix
Does ur ability cost anything? Does it have any limitations? I find it wierd that you failed to mention ur bp costs or if u have thresholds... and I doubt that you have none... cause that wouldn't correlate with anything we've learned so far. and if you die from betrays, someone else gets ur ability? lmao you would never let urself die from betray... that doesnt make any sense, unless u wanted to kill urself to clear everyones PoE...
I have no BP costs or thresholds. Yes, if I die by betrayal my ability passes. Sure, I could betray endlessly when I'm down to 1, but that doesn't help town, even in that situation, if I'm paired with someone I trust, I'm still allying. It's basically moot anyway, because I'm at 6 BP now.
you're conveniently back when everyone starts talking about you -.-
well, time to start. what do you think of your role so far? Vote: Phoenix-Fire
This post makes me legitimately angry. For real, I was gone for the weekend, I hadn't even read anything since I left, and you're going to attack me for that? Don't do that. Ever.
uggh I know I said I wouldnt switch votes, but Terry/Myself/Kabazame/Tom have all realized that even if his role exists, its most likely scum aligned
Sorry Pheonix vote: Pheonix
And I'm back to thinking Last is scum. He's preemptively deflecting blame for when I flip, he's apologizing to me; he knows I'm town here. Unvote, Vote Last Whisper
It's also weird that his ability passes by betrayal. Why would someone betray a first responder and take his job? Does that make sense with the flavor?
yeah. doesn't make sense there. betraying a first responder should result in something nasty, not inheriting their abilities..
You realize that if I die to someone betraying me, it gets broadcast to the thread right? I would qualify that as something nasty.
Actually, this makes me even more concerned about Lastwhisper. I would not be surprised in the slightest if he has a second ability which steals 1. It would fit oh-so-well.
Even more so now, if Last flips scum, I probably just clear Osi.
Probably will be my last post for the night since I need to study for a bio exam tmr
I am not point fingers I am just listing possible people that could have this role since its not part of my role whether you believe it or not...
Possible BP Takers:
Kabazame
tomsloger (Dont think it can be tom tho, but for semantics sake, I listed him)
Cythare
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Killjoy
Axelrod
Ive only included the people that havent claimed yet...
Yeah, I think taking away BP is part of last's role. What is the point of this list except to shade people, but he prefaces with not wanting to point fingers.
I mean, he's behaviorally clean, and if he's town, the lack of flips destroys our information-gathering.
Just flip him late-game if he's still alive, and get the best of both worlds.
No, it's better for scum. Town shouldn't be concerned about roles. I'm scum reading everyone who tells me otherwise up until this point. I still don't see a good example of why it's more helpful to town than it is to scum. That opinion alone doesn't necessarily impact if the player with that ability is town or not, but I am pretty firm that it is more beneficial to scum to see role flips than it is to town. Town is used to working in a vacuum of assumption, scum use role info as a crutch and a Lynch pin to their semi-rig of destruction.
A lack of role information is always better for scum, your continued push that the opposite is true is wrong.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I've caught up to myself, and read to current but don't feel like continuing this post as I've already spent multiple hours getting to this point. I might respond to other stuff in separate posts later, but I need a respite.
Happy to lynch Last or Terry
Don't really think anyone else is as clearly scum.
Again I listed people they could be that role, didn't ask for them to out, it's just that they haven't claimed yet... And no I haven't lied about anything, I can only give BP and I am at 6bp...
Also ur ability costing literally nothing is literally against everything we know so far...
Ok and when I flip town, does that mean Osie can still be scummy lol? Why does my flip even have anything to do with him???
Again your putting to much trust in a role that I dont think is town aligned, based on alot of curcumstances. So what if their are no flips? You act like town cant win flipless games.
I mean he had a while to think this through espically if he was scum, and thanks to those who didnt want to out their own actions it caused the whole sitaution to drag on. So he actually had quite a fair time to come up with the gambit. Which makes it even harder for me to believe this is a town claim.
you've been too reliant on roles lately.... this shows it. besides how you're scumreading me for claiming vig and not being shot.
and honestly, I'm not sure what's up with you. townread Osie for idk what, scumread Dawn for flawed claiming and possible counterclaiming, scumread Last for chooosing Betray when he announced it beforehand... can you please walk me through your thought process?
I am town, I am not a neutral. Also please explain the bolded; why do you keep using this "I could be scum" phrasing. Do you think Iso and Shin are scum together?
it's impossible to paint me as a neutral when I have BP requirements, which leaves me as either scum or town. if mafia can carry out their factional kills without BP worries, I'm sure we have a neutral who aren't locked down by BP conditions as well - which leads to me thinking you're the neutral.
Iso/Shin are counters to my claim, and if I'm not neutral we can sort them out. the most I can squeeze in is an extra killing role, but not roleblocking. scum needs at least 1 roleblocker.
Ewwww, just.....ick. Sanity check, does anyone else get scum-scum vibes from this?
you scumread Terry for leading a lynch on you, and our agreement leads you to an omgus association.... I guess, you have an omgus'y playstyle?
So you think I'm scummy for voting someone who I believed was lying scum? So if someone claimed a check on you that you KNOW is false, you wouldn't snap vote them?
Regarding shin, do you, or do you not think you and him are a dichotomy?
I don't usually jump a vote on someone unless I'm fishing for reactions. even if a cop claimed me guilty, there could be a framer or transporter in play. the person who suspected you was just a tracker. maybe we have a difference in playstyle, and I've noticed you're a very....reactive person - someone who tends to scumread anyone who scumreads you. I'm not a reactive player, just a confusing one.
and I'm not sure about Shin, he challenges my townread on him all the time, then plays victim when I finally scumread him.... it's bizarre. I'd rather not deal with him if I can help it.
This post makes me legitimately angry. For real, I was gone for the weekend, I hadn't even read anything since I left, and you're going to attack me for that? Don't do that. Ever.
everything I say is legitimately maddening? alright. you should also reflect on yourself and consider informing others of your schedule beforehand, since anything said during the game can be a lie. I'm just playing the game as it is.
You realize that if I die to someone betraying me, it gets broadcast to the thread right? I would qualify that as something nasty.
hmmm... I don't think scum would dare to kill by Betrayal, so it's NAI. it could be a nasty experience for whoever Betrayed you, but I think the benefit of gaining your ability outweights that misfortune.
Explain. What about my role constitutes "conflicting nature"?
because it controls a portion of this setup. anyone who stands to gain your ability via Betray gets more than they lose, which doesn't tally up to the crime of killing a First Responder.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Ok, snap shot of about 12 hours to go. We see LW as the front runner, but that doesn't happen. Right now we see tomsloger, dawningbluesky, Lastwhisper, Jenna Tolaria, Azrael all piled on ISO. It get's tied up below both at L-2:
So the new votes that jumped in were, Shinichi on LW and KJ and Axel on ISO. Neither of these lynches happen. Suddenly, with 4 hours left, votes start piling onto Town Grape, who at the time was at ZERO votes. Post #3345 by DBS calls for a CFD onto Grape, Town DV drops the first vote (#3347). DBS follows suit (#3353). ISO declares 100% against a Grape Lynch (#3363). Kaba comes in and adds to the LW train (#3447), which interestingly puts LW at L-1 as far as I can tell. Then KABAM! Az flip in with a huge "Guys, LW is not scum" post (#3463). This is when the LW L-1 wagon crumbles. Interestingly DBS misreps the VC in post #3467 saying that LW only has 7 votes not 8. Kaba also points out that its stupid to derail onto a grape CFD (#3468). Grape gets off the LW wagon onto Jenna (#3477). This is a strange play by him. LW goes over to Grape (#3478). It was clear that ISO wasn't going to be the Lynch, so he's going for a different counter wagon to his own. Seems like the correct play. Az goes Grape (#3493), but still is arguing to defend LW. ISO follows Az onto Grape (#3496). Osi reluctantly goes over to Grape (#3498). Here's a new snap shot:
Ok, two hours left and it's a three way toss up. Shin picks ISO (#3582) tying ISO and Grape at 6. Killjoy goes Grape from ISO (#3599). Shin switches over to Grape, but more for the sake of having a Lynch and not really calling GF scum (#3642) and I have to come in and hammer Grape even though I preferred LW to both of these. Here's the final vote count:
Bur will be around shortly to put the game to night.
Considering this and that I am incredibly suspicious of Az, but willing to give him a shot AND considering that I'm willing to trust Phoenix that he's giving us flips for one more night, I think I want to go back to the LW Lynch. He was at L-1. Here's a list of the people that could have hammered him but didn't:
DV (Town)
DBS
Jenna
Az
Just looking at that list I would be ecstatic to Lynch Last Whisper. $5 says he flips BP stealer. Or did Shin block him?
Just checked. It looks like shin protected LW's ability not blocked it.
hmm he protects Last's ability but scumreads him.. could easily be scum theatre. I think it would be in our best interest to have a Dawn or Shin lynch. roleblockers first.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
BP taker probably town based on targeting iso.
Especially if iso is scum, but even if not it's like a really slow CC shot. Not really how I imagine scum using their "extra kp"
Which probably makes iso/dawning more likely nontown.
uhh... you're kinda jumping the gun here by assuming the Taker is town. in Bur's other setup, there were even/odd trackers and 1 was scum. BP Taker is probably scum.
No ones even claimed this yet have that? We only know the possiblity exists because someone said they lost bp which could be a lie as well.
2. Not Voting (2): Megiddo, Kabazame "Interestingly DBS misreps the VC in post #3467 saying that LW only has 7 votes not 8."
3. Not Voting (2): Megiddo, Shinichi
4. Not Voting (1): Megiddo
can you explain to me how Shinichi unvoted? my misrep could've been accurate, since I counted Shinichi as a non-voter.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
The list of people I would not cry over being gone includes, in no particular order:
Killjoy
Osie
Azrael
Iso
DBS (though, if I am being honest, this is partly just because then he would not be posting anymore...)
The list of people I am not onboard with lynching today even though one or more of them is almost certainly scum:
Kaba
tom
LW
Cyth
Terry
Phoenix (who has been demoted because of the track result, but who still reads all kind of behaviorally town)
The list of people I currently actively think are Town:
Shin
Jenna
LnGrrr
This is all I got. I don't have the time or energy to make a case on anyone.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
-No offense But why should I believe your word on how your ability works, mind you ive seen blockable passives on a 2nd note regardless ofo what you say I will be betraying you XD.
Why do you care about the other games so much ? Thats the real question here, your on the verge of being a lynch option so what do those other games have anything to do with your situation?
@KJ #5334
-Why Does it matter, do you think I am scum for that reason? Also I dont even see where I replied to anything that was about you and if I did its because I wanted to provide my opinion and did not care who it was addressed to. So again does this say anything aobut my alignment?
@Osi #5342 I aint one to talk since I am heavily focused on Dawn, but isn't it quite convienent for you to be mroe focused on az who is the hot topic?
No, it's better for scum. Town shouldn't be concerned about roles. I'm scum reading everyone who tells me otherwise up until this point. I still don't see a good example of why it's more helpful to town than it is to scum. That opinion alone doesn't necessarily impact if the player with that ability is town or not, but I am pretty firm that it is more beneficial to scum to see role flips than it is to town. Town is used to working in a vacuum of assumption, scum use role info as a crutch and a Lynch pin to their semi-rig of destruction.
I support this. in a way. we've had enough claims outed for the game, and don't think we need any more.
You literally just agreed with tom then agreed with Terry lol.
I mean, I don't think BP taker (or giver) is AI on it own.
Could see any combination of alignments for those two roles.
IF it's not whisper with both (ftr I think he's currently my ~weakest town read)
But I do think targeting a KP claim is reasonably townie in a vacuum. Definitely how I would have used it.
I really doubt Giver/Taker would be on the same alignment if they can affect thresholds - the only ones so far being claimed killing roles. while the give/take aspect is NAI, we can safely say they aren't aligned. if Last is scum, that'll mean the other half is town, and vice versa.
but why would scum swipe Iso's BP over all the other possible choices, are they that afraid of his vegeance???
Iso is essentially a vegetable at the moment, the same can be said of me. we're both invalid killing machines. just cripple us but keep us alive until town chooses to hang us. killing off investigative roles are priority. cripple the killing roles, kill off the investigative roles. crippling the killing roles matters as much as killing off the investigatives.
We dont need the killing roles to progress its not like we're in a state that will make us lose if you dont shoot someone so it matters not abot killing roles, while invest roles can pretty much solve the game quicker.
@last manipulation why do u fall for it so easily?
idk what you mean, just cause you see me agree on paper, doesnt mean I actually agree overall...
I agree with terry here, I honestly if i cant gunrantee phoenix will be roleblocked I would like to see him lynched.
Phoenix already stated his ability cant be roleblocked, but Im starting to believe that the fact that he asked Bur is a lie, and that his whole role is a lie...
Again why would you believe that, its the 2nd most convienent thing he said outside his role claim. Also the 2nd time hes had information clarified by bur. Well what you write on paper is what matters the most in the game just saying.
@Joe Terry
If Azrael is lying and the real doctor dies tonight after lynching Phoenix, we'll never know. This would be a free lynch with role flips but without we have nothing to go on. Scum benefits from this obviously.
Furthermore, if scum has a rolecop they pretty much get infinite use Janitor which is insanely powerful.
If Phoenix is telling the truth, his role is very beneficial to town, not only in providing information but also preventing scum from using the confusion to their benefit. Thus there's no reason to lynch him now when the rest of the scum team is still at large anyway.
This leads me to two theories:
Phoenix is town and JoeTerry is trying to kill him to make the game no flip, under the guise of his role being beneficial to scum. Terry knows this is not the case, but he's playing dumb so he doesn't get crucified after Phoenix flips
Phoenix is scum and JoeTerry is trying to make it not look suspicious when he isn't Night Killed, or he's trying to bus him to get town cred. Whether the lynch goes through or not it's a win-win
either way I think Terry is scum because he's pushing the Phoenix lynch too hard today when it's not the right play yet, and because this thing about the role being more beneficial to scum than town is pure rubbish. I don't think this is just him being wrong either, he's
Also he betrayed me Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I have more to say on him but I don't have time right now. Expect a big post later tonight!
SO nothing else matters to you, but his role? The interaction, the behavior, his posts? Only think that you care about is the usefulness of his ability which could be scum aligned am i wrong to state that unless you know otherwise which would imply your scum.
Also I want phoenix lynched to and i can give 2 *****s about how helpful his aiblity is to town.
Also I want phoenix lynched to and i can give 2 *****s about how helpful his aiblity is to town.
the way you say this sounds like you don't care what happens to town. and why aren't you even voting that way if you want him lynched? I don't understand how you're town in all this. ugh.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Also I want phoenix lynched to and i can give 2 *****s about how helpful his aiblity is to town.
the way you say this sounds like you don't care what happens to town. and why aren't you even voting that way if you want him lynched? I don't understand how you're town in all this. ugh.
You can look at it that way sure, but hes a scum read so why the hell would I let that pass by just cause of his role claim.
Funnily enough, Gentleman Johnny claimed Doc (as scum) in the 2016 Invitational, and I still strongly advocated his lynch immediately afterwards; Az was in that game and it should come as no surprise that I would advocate his lynch after his Doc claim.
Since you don't want to try to convince me that Last is town, can you at least try to convince me that Shin is scum? I'm not really seeing a case on either of them from you, and I'm significantly more willing to believe that Shin is scum than I am to believe that Last is town or Phoenix is scum.
I've already explained my townread on Last: his scummy behavior was neutral to me, but that early D1 tie was enough to give him a townlean. must I repeat myself everytime?
as for Shin, the way he brought up a potential counterclaim late, besides hammering a townread of his, doesn't look good.
As I believe I have said, I have you straining the boundary between neutral and townlean, barring something overwhelmingly townie, or an Az townflip. You are part of one world, but you could definitely be town irregardless of the alignments of Last and Az.
then why do you want to question my posts more than, say, Tom/LnG/Killjoy? it will lead nowhere if I'm a neutral/townlean for you.
@dawning
It bugs me you want people to take your meta read on whisper as law but are just... actively ignoring me and az's meta read on Iso. We've both explained it fairly well imo. He's not solving the game like iso solves games.
And is straight up flaunting that with his bull***** links to his iso which is, like, totally my move.
looking into playstyles help your judgement. I explained Last's playstyle to you since he has a terrible time doing so, and I'm sure you have a better idea of how I play. feel free to figure things out from there. I never said my word is law, but if you're trying to discredit a metaread...that's hilarious. I've seen and considered Iso's meta and he hasn't behaved otherwise, just less aggressive - and he's mentioned some life issues that got in the way. there's also the possibility of tampering with meta, and I know since I do that frequently. Last is least likely, or even capable, of tampering with his meta since he has much to learn....which also explains his heavy reliance on meta, since he's not familiar with the tampering possibilities. I factor in everything before coming to a conclusion. Iso has more depth to decipher compared to Last, that is why I'm taking longer to figure him out.
1.Ok when do i not tunnel miss meta? If you cant answer that properly then you cant possible see anything wrong with my acitons.
2.It wasnt a counter claim 2 other people have clarly pointed out the differences actually your the only one who thinks its a counterclaim tbf lol, so likewise I don't care aobut this mechanical aspect you keep going back to. Cause again if I was scum why the hell would I wait till now to counterclaim, i aint an idiot i know how to play the game.
3. Well I mean if you get lynched and flipp town ill still be flipping town, but I highly doubt your going to flip town with that role claim of yours.
4.I don't but am i going to let myself get patronized? No of course not if I have to ill step outside my comfort zone.
5.Delayed? If I am partnered with Phoenix and I betray him he will be role blocked that night. I obviously cant control it, so is this your way of justfiying my lynch is ok when your only able to clear yourself after night 3.
6. Petty is one thing I am not, and i dont bring personal feelings into this game so please reframe from continuing to bring that up over and over its annoying.
1. personal insults so far: acting like a god, so smart, miss meta(new). may I ask why the personal attacks?
I have seen genuine tunnels from you as town, but they don't stay on 1 person if it accomplishes nothing - your only vote on me is doing nothing.
2. when you fullclaimed, you included the non-factional kill line. sure sounds like you wanted to counterclaim me right there and then~ could have done that earlier, so we could all sort it out before forcing you to mislynch your townread. you even proceeded to blame anyone who is frustrated at Grapefruit's lack of claiming, Dawn and Azrael - yet you put Last at L2 to make him claim, and unvoted as a way to say that's what town should do.
3. case and lynch me then. a single vote won't do anything to me and you know it. you aren't exactly pushing my case. why?
4. in what way do you feel patronized?
5. scum won't waste their actions on proving themselves to town. even if you're partnered with Phoenix, that doesn't mean you will roleblock him.
6. what I say to others isn't directed at you, but you address those to call me petty. I don't think you should be annoyed if you're the one to bring it up.
1.Your an adult lol please don't say those are insults, because if you consider those personal attacks then i deal with that every god damn day so please stop. You like to use meta so if you think me calling you miss meta is an insult then don't use meta so much lmfao.
2.I included that cause its in my roles text, I didnt just decide to add that to frame you. I mean your welcome to believe what you want, but once i am lynched its going to make your life alot harder since the text is clearly there.
3.I am, but just like me half the game wants to town read you XD.
4.I wonder.
5.I will roleblock him because I am town, if I was scum I would prob still roleblock him because bussing is fun lmfao.
6.Cause petty would be ignoring me cause you don't like what I am saying, which is what a few other players have also been doing. I on the otherhand would never do soemthing like that.
I would assume so unless mafia were provided fake flavor to claim.
Wouldn't surprise me.
I mean If the scum are evil by flavor then their are plenty of characters that I would know were scummy by nature if they claimed that, grape character is scummy in a sense flavor wise if you played the first game. So i can tell thats not the case, atleast thats my opinion.
This post is something else mainly cause of how ahrd it is for me to reply to it
-Can I start off by saying You saying your role helps town means literally nothing seeing as how your role usefulness is up to us not you.
-Your role is common atleast the general aspect of it is, I don't know about him i want you lynched because its way to convienent and that i cant roleblock you.
-SO i have to ask, is this passive all you have? No other abilities? I ask because I have 1 ability and 2 passives so the question has come to my mind.
-I can prove you too, but you seem to be against that seeing as how you had to ask if you your ability can be blocked. If you were town wouldnt you be all up for being able to have an ability that can be proven?
-What Process?
-So that one post from DBS does it make her scum? If so why say that, and no I dont agree it gives scum vibes because I also like the idea of lynching you.
-Why would scum kill you? If actually hurts them just as well, because they wont be able to see the strength of the roles through the flips.
-Why haven't you looked at me? I strongly agree you need to be lynched but you didnt quote any of my posts about you ik they exist, youve mainly only been focused on Terry.
-Passive multi targetting seems hard to believe and I rather not test that theory out cause it requires multiple deaths which i rather not see.
-Do you think one of the roleblockers has to be scum?
-Did you really vote twice in 1 posts -_-
-What do you mean if u die your ability is broadcasted?
-So are your scum reads Last/DBS/Terry/Osi?
-Town shouldn't care about roles, but at the same time having the roles out there helps them understand the setup which in turn helps mafia also understand the setup.
Just checked. It looks like shin protected LW's ability not blocked it.
hmm he protects Last's ability but scumreads him.. could easily be scum theatre. I think it would be in our best interest to have a Dawn or Shin lynch. roleblockers first.
I mean it comes with the allying nothing i can do about that.
@Phoenix
[b]No, it's passive. I don't have any way to use BP.[/b]
again that doesnt correlate with anything we've learned so far, it makes no sense for you to have absolutely no costs...
[b]Actually, I kind of want a masslcaim toDay.[/b]
I'd rather not have anymore role claims, please and thank you... what even is the benefit other than just cause?
[b]I really don't like this post. Have you paid attention to whether anyone has changed their mind in this grouping? FYI, I did; Last is not my preferred lynch target, why is he yours? Has anything he's done made you second guess?[/b]
I mean what has made you second guess, and as we can see up ahead, it wasnt enough to prevent you from omgus voteing me...
[b]You don't think scum would even think about killing me? Really? And you're completely missing the point of how to use claims and behavior; a scummy player with a "must kill" claim should not be lynched because it wastes a lynch when you can conceivably count on them to be sorted out, it doesn't go the other way just because you don't like someone's role.[/b]
Why are you wining urself and speculating on the NK? Whoever dies, dies, and it makes you look bad. Your defended urself with terrible reasonings here, who defines what is a "must kill?" Its not a waste of a lynch if you flip scum, and I guess to be fair, you havent done anything scummy except being caught visiting D.V, and having a claim, that scares town away from lynching you...
[b]Your progression just makes no sense to me. I've not even been here, you haven't even tried to interact with me.
I can't help get the feeling that this is sinister in motivation; your conviction towards me feels generated and calculated, and it lines up with waiting to see if I'm mislynchable, and when other people expressed suspicion of me, you knew that pushing me was safe.
What caused you to escalate so quickly?[/b]
"What caused you to escalate so quickly," ironic when you look at the progression of this post lol... and why exactly does it feel generated and calculated, if it is as you say, then dont be so ambigious and explain your reasoning... and how are you mislynchable, because your role is too good? Wish my role gave me a free pass...
[b]And I'm back to thinking Last is scum. He's preemptively deflecting blame for when I flip, he's apologizing to me; he knows I'm town here.
Unvote, Vote Last Whisper[/b]
How am I deflecting blame? I apologized because I was one of your biggest supporters, and after coming to my realization and seeing everyone elses posts, I realized you had a higher chance than I originally thought of you being scum... it didnt happen in a split second, like your two omgus votes... and if I knew you were town I woulding be voting you because I am town also, like what...
[/b]Yeah, I think taking away BP is part of last's role. What is the point of this list except to shade people, but he prefaces with not wanting to point fingers.[/b]No its not, and explain to me why I wouldnt have just stated it when I claimed? and I wasnt pointing fingers, I just listed everyone that didnt claim yet, and once my lynch goes off, and if it does, you'll see that I wasnt lying and that other role does exist... whether its scum or not, I cant tell you...
[b]Happy to lynch Last or Terry
Don't really think anyone else is as clearly scum.[/b]
Lol, 11/10 progression right here boys...
again I am totally ok with my lynch just like I was day 1, except I'd be a little more bitter... 2 days left, and I dont recommend another CFD, so if my lynch is the most unanimous then I wont fight it lol... You and Osie seem to hide omgus votes by adding on details that literally mean nothing, honestly at least you added something new, unlike Osie who has just been scum reading me since day 1...
and I broke all my tags... all the broken bold statements are what Phoenix said... and my answers are under them, times like this is when I wish I could edit lol. I want to answer another post but Ill wait till someone posts inbetween me so I dont triple post...
Also I want phoenix lynched to and i can give 2 *****s about how helpful his aiblity is to town.
the way you say this sounds like you don't care what happens to town. and why aren't you even voting that way if you want him lynched? I don't understand how you're town in all this. ugh.
You can look at it that way sure, but hes a scum read so why the hell would I let that pass by just cause of his role claim.
your scumread, or ours? doesn't look like you scumread Phoenix before.
[#1726] Why? Because your not willing to work with them so they have the god given right to say hey your most likely scum and if your not you dieing doesnt hurt town at all.
[#2423] YOur (DBS) alignment is mafia what else is there to figure out? This phase is way past the pressure votes its time to put someone into L2 or L1 this is not a pressure vote. I mean ill change my vote to prevent a no lynch from happening of course.
[#2424] Also this whole back N forth between Osi and Dv seems more like T v T tho my opinion may be biased cause of the misunderstandings OSI has been having, since i tend to do that alot as welleven as town.
1.Your an adult lol please don't say those are insults, because if you consider those personal attacks then i deal with that every god damn day so please stop. You like to use meta so if you think me calling you miss meta is an insult then don't use meta so much lmfao.
2.I included that cause its in my roles text, I didnt just decide to add that to frame you. I mean your welcome to believe what you want, but once i am lynched its going to make your life alot harder since the text is clearly there.
3.I am, but just like me half the game wants to town read you XD.
4.I wonder.
5.I will roleblock him because I am town, if I was scum I would prob still roleblock him because bussing is fun lmfao.
6.Cause petty would be ignoring me cause you don't like what I am saying, which is what a few other players have also been doing. I on the otherhand would never do soemthing like that.
2. I won't be deterred from lynching you even if you say that.
3. you've been scumreading me ever since your 1st post, so I would like to see the sense in it. please make a case on me. I've already spent plenty of time detailing the reasons I scumread you and townread Last.
5. just because you like to bus doesn't mean we should believe it.
---------------------------------
my scumreads for now are:
Shin/Phoenix/Osie and someone else.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
DBS (though, if I am being honest, this is partly just because then he would not be posting anymore...)
a huge portion of my posts is replying to questions and trying not to ignore a certain someone. plenty of clarification involved too, since I've had to explain myself more than once. it's not like my posts are devoid of content.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Wait a minute... why would Shin every ally with LW? He was on LW's L-1 wagon with t minus 4 hours left. Can some one please look into this. I'm mobile only
Wait a minute... why would Shin every ally with LW? He was on LW's L-1 wagon with t minus 4 hours left. Can some one please look into this. I'm mobile only
tbh he put me to L-2 with the sole purpose of finding out my role... and hes reason for allying me is that he is a good person... lol
Wait a minute... why would Shin every ally with LW? He was on LW's L-1 wagon with t minus 4 hours left. Can some one please look into this. I'm mobile only
tbh he put me to L-2 with the sole purpose of finding out my role... and hes reason for allying me is that he is a good person... lol
I honestly forgot i voted you lmfao, yet you betrayed me -_-
Wait a minute... why would Shin every ally with LW? He was on LW's L-1 wagon with t minus 4 hours left. Can some one please look into this. I'm mobile only
I voted LW? Pretty sure day 1 consisted of me voting DBS then voting Grape to make sure a lynch went through, the only way i would have voted LW was for the same reason it wouldnt have been cause i sucm read him.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
If Azrael is lying and the real doctor dies tonight after lynching Phoenix, we'll never know. This would be a free lynch with role flips but without we have nothing to go on. Scum benefits from this obviously.
Furthermore, if scum has a rolecop they pretty much get infinite use Janitor which is insanely powerful.
If Phoenix is telling the truth, his role is very beneficial to town, not only in providing information but also preventing scum from using the confusion to their benefit. Thus there's no reason to lynch him now when the rest of the scum team is still at large anyway.
This leads me to two theories:
Phoenix is town and JoeTerry is trying to kill him to make the game no flip, under the guise of his role being beneficial to scum. Terry knows this is not the case, but he's playing dumb so he doesn't get crucified after Phoenix flips
Phoenix is scum and JoeTerry is trying to make it not look suspicious when he isn't Night Killed, or he's trying to bus him to get town cred. Whether the lynch goes through or not it's a win-win
either way I think Terry is scum because he's pushing the Phoenix lynch too hard today when it's not the right play yet, and because this thing about the role being more beneficial to scum than town is pure rubbish. I don't think this is just him being wrong either, he's
Also he betrayed me
Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I have more to say on him but I don't have time right now. Expect a big post later tonight!
1. what???
2. he betrayed u because u looked like lurking scum...
3. what???
4. I probably wont yield to anything but a phoenix or Osie lynch at this point, does that make me scum too?
5. Wait terry is scum in both your scenarios? lmao...
Grabbed no more than three posts from each of the games I looked at. I also just tend to do this as a person, as I'd figure you'd be aware...
Avalon #1
Avalon #2
Avalon #3
~~~
Revolution #1
Revolution #2
~~~
Arguably, co-modding on Russian Roulette.
~~~
Died too quickly in the other games I looked at, I guess. Didn't really look at Horsemen or Silver's ongoing game, though.
~~~~~~~
Hmm. Maybe.
Yeah, no more claims would be glorious.
Wouldn't surprise me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I looked at the posts in question and that doesn't really seem like the same characteristic I'm seeing, here.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I've already explained my townread on Last: his scummy behavior was neutral to me, but that early D1 tie was enough to give him a townlean. must I repeat myself everytime?
as for Shin, the way he brought up a potential counterclaim late, besides hammering a townread of his, doesn't look good.
then why do you want to question my posts more than, say, Tom/LnG/Killjoy? it will lead nowhere if I'm a neutral/townlean for you.
looking into playstyles help your judgement. I explained Last's playstyle to you since he has a terrible time doing so, and I'm sure you have a better idea of how I play. feel free to figure things out from there. I never said my word is law, but if you're trying to discredit a metaread...that's hilarious. I've seen and considered Iso's meta and he hasn't behaved otherwise, just less aggressive - and he's mentioned some life issues that got in the way. there's also the possibility of tampering with meta, and I know since I do that frequently. Last is least likely, or even capable, of tampering with his meta since he has much to learn....which also explains his heavy reliance on meta, since he's not familiar with the tampering possibilities. I factor in everything before coming to a conclusion. Iso has more depth to decipher compared to Last, that is why I'm taking longer to figure him out.
1. personal insults so far: acting like a god, so smart, miss meta(new). may I ask why the personal attacks?
I have seen genuine tunnels from you as town, but they don't stay on 1 person if it accomplishes nothing - your only vote on me is doing nothing.
2. when you fullclaimed, you included the non-factional kill line. sure sounds like you wanted to counterclaim me right there and then~ could have done that earlier, so we could all sort it out before forcing you to mislynch your townread. you even proceeded to blame anyone who is frustrated at Grapefruit's lack of claiming, Dawn and Azrael - yet you put Last at L2 to make him claim, and unvoted as a way to say that's what town should do.
3. case and lynch me then. a single vote won't do anything to me and you know it. you aren't exactly pushing my case. why?
4. in what way do you feel patronized?
5. scum won't waste their actions on proving themselves to town. even if you're partnered with Phoenix, that doesn't mean you will roleblock him.
6. what I say to others isn't directed at you, but you address those to call me petty. I don't think you should be annoyed if you're the one to bring it up.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Be grateful, always."
With the role flips hidden, mafia, who haven't claimed, don't know what claims are safe and what ones are not. When they see a town Cop role flip, they know they can't claim cop and likewise there will not be a cop left in the set up. If the cop were to die with no flip revealed, mafia wouldn't know if cop is a safe claim or not. It's not that hard of a concept. I do see the issue you're taking with the claims that are already in play, therefore:
UNVOTE, I still think he's guilty scum, but the people I want to vote keep making "convenient claims"
You didn't need to vote me to convince me of that. Yeah I betrayed you. You had 15 posts since you entered the game. I didn't want to risk giving up 3 points to you because I thought the slot you replaced in was in scum lurk mode.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm not sure if we should play that game again... lol. you claimed first and under pressure, so the reading is awkward when going into the next phase. I might look into Tom for technically bringing out the noodle!Iso excuse, and making dichotomies with of few players for a while.
for now, I'd rather go with Osie. will be looking up other players.
Vote: osieorb18
Be grateful, always."
Methodical and wishywashy are usually mutually exclusive, so therefore I do not think you think both these things of me.
Feel free to prove both.
No he confirmed it at post 32, 2 hours after we discussed that. We could have changed out submission before that. Even after the chat closed, as long as Day hadn't started yet.
You're making excuses. I know better for being in the chat. You're trying to convince others that you had no choice. That's wrong. You did.
You literally said "I'm not scumreading you anymore" then said you were, as if you'd forgotten that you weren't.
I'm willing to lynch:
Osie, tom, Kaba? (I agree with whoever said he jumped on that whole 'Pheonix has a crazy role' train really quickly.) And I think Jenna. I dislike how quickly she dropped Pheonix as a target after catching him target DV and is focused on me/Osie now, as if she knows Pheonix didn't kill DV. Also pushing me before Osie. Osie/Jenna team possible for sure.
I'm still not sure Az/Iso are anywhere close to a dichotomy, so don't want to lynch either atm.
Dawn still town.
I have this nagging gut feeling that Last is town. There were at least two occasions that people tried to push him today by saying "These people have expressed desire to lynch Last. Lets get on that". Maybe that was just Osie. Still holds true though. It feels weird.
Torn on Terry. I feel like a lot of what he's saying comes from a town perspective, but how he's saying it feels iffy. like This feels like genuine frustration, but his tone is scummy. I recall thinking that in my first game with him too. I'll say not today for him either.
I'm still thinking Shin is behaviorally town. IDK about his role vs. others. Not enough info there I think.
LngrrR... I could lynch him I think. Behaviorally he hasn't been the best and his role seems distinctly underwhelming.
So yeah. Osie, tom, Kaba, Jenna, LnGrrR are my preferred lynches.
Sorry about the triple post.
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Killjoy (3): Jenna Tolaria, LnGrrrR, Cythare
osieorb18 (2): tomsloger, dawningbluesky
Shinichi (1): Azrael
Azrael (1): Iso
Lastwhisper (1): osieorb18
dawningbluesky (1): Shinichi
tomsloger (1): Killjoy
Phoenix-Fire (1): Lastwhisper
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): Kabazame
Not voting (3): Phoenix-Fire, Axelrod, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
With 15 alive, it’s 8 to lynch. Deadline is Thursday, November 23rd at 11.59 pm EST.
"Things we learn by lynching Phoenix"
"-his alignment"
This isn't a reason to lynch someone, this is a byproduct, you lynch someone because you think they're scum
"-Jenna's alignment"
Except you actually say that Jenna is town regardless, so that isn't actually a valid point.
"We also don't have to worry about having no role information, no big deal, just as bad for scum"
How is this ever bad for scum? Full flips gives town the power of information; not having role info would make solving by actions much harder. Suggesting otherwise is just patently false.
"His claim is far fetched."
So you want to lynch me because there is an uncommon role in a complicated game? If you have actual questions about my role then ask them, I'm more than willing to clarify anything that you or anyone else would like, but right now you're just throwing shade at me.No, it's passive. I don't have any way to use BP.I wouldn't really liken it to an insane cop comparison, more like the role that will always come up guilty if they were checked by a cop, except here it's always shown as visiting for trackers.
And if you promise to prove my role, I think I'm okay adding you to the list of people who can betray me. I'll let you know.To jump in here, in no way am I going to say or imply that my role makes me town. My process should make it clear though.I am town, I am not a neutral. Also please explain the bolded; why do you keep using this "I could be scum" phrasing. Do you think Iso and Shin are scum together?Why is Tom scary? And what do you make of his stance on me?I really don't like this post. Have you paid attention to whether anyone has changed their mind in this grouping? FYI, I did; Last is not my preferred lynch target, why is he yours? Has anything he's done made you second guess?What exactly changed while I was gone that made you feel this so strongly?Ewwww, just.....ick. Sanity check, does anyone else get scum-scum vibes from this?I'm sorry what? Someone else defending me makes you want to lynch me? Even if Osi is scum, it's possible he's just white knighting me.[Correct, name/alignment would still be revealed. And you didn't answer about my behavior at all.You don't think scum would even think about killing me? Really? And you're completely missing the point of how to use claims and behavior; a scummy player with a "must kill" claim should not be lynched because it wastes a lynch when you can conceivably count on them to be sorted out, it doesn't go the other way just because you don't like someone's role.Again, care to clarify? Or are you just shading me?Your progression just makes no sense to me. I've not even been here, you haven't even tried to interact with me.
I can't help get the feeling that this is sinister in motivation; your conviction towards me feels generated and calculated, and it lines up with waiting to see if I'm mislynchable, and when other people expressed suspicion of me, you knew that pushing me was safe.
What caused you to escalate so quickly?1. ...yes...I'm not sure what your problem is here. My role provides flip info for anyone that dies, how is this a problem.
2. Why? Do you not believe that multi-targeting exists?
3. I can't really speak for this one; I know what my role does, saying it can't exist because a mod hasn't made it before isn't something I can argue against except to say that your just wrong. And generating a read based off of predicting the mod is not a smart way to play.Holy crap really? "His claim has some holes" suddenly becomes "he claimed a scum role"?! I just don't buy it.
Vote Terry
And my role is no more setup breaking than the role that always cop checks guilty (I feel dumb, I can't remember what that's called)So you think I'm scummy for voting someone who I believed was lying scum? So if someone claimed a check on you that you KNOW is false, you wouldn't snap vote them?
Regarding shin, do you, or do you not think you and him are a dichotomy?I have no BP costs or thresholds. Yes, if I die by betrayal my ability passes. Sure, I could betray endlessly when I'm down to 1, but that doesn't help town, even in that situation, if I'm paired with someone I trust, I'm still allying. It's basically moot anyway, because I'm at 6 BP now.This post makes me legitimately angry. For real, I was gone for the weekend, I hadn't even read anything since I left, and you're going to attack me for that? Don't do that. Ever.And I'm back to thinking Last is scum. He's preemptively deflecting blame for when I flip, he's apologizing to me; he knows I'm town here.
Unvote, Vote Last WhisperYou realize that if I die to someone betraying me, it gets broadcast to the thread right? I would qualify that as something nasty.Hmm, until they happen in the same night, I'm not convinced that it's not the same role.Even more so now, if Last flips scum, I probably just clear Osi.Yeah, I think taking away BP is part of last's role. What is the point of this list except to shade people, but he prefaces with not wanting to point fingers.Explain. What about my role constitutes "conflicting nature"?A lack of role information is always better for scum, your continued push that the opposite is true is wrong.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I've caught up to myself, and read to current but don't feel like continuing this post as I've already spent multiple hours getting to this point. I might respond to other stuff in separate posts later, but I need a respite.
Happy to lynch Last or Terry
Don't really think anyone else is as clearly scum.
Two omgus votes in one post?
Again I listed people they could be that role, didn't ask for them to out, it's just that they haven't claimed yet... And no I haven't lied about anything, I can only give BP and I am at 6bp...
Also ur ability costing literally nothing is literally against everything we know so far...
Ok and when I flip town, does that mean Osie can still be scummy lol? Why does my flip even have anything to do with him???
and honestly, I'm not sure what's up with you. townread Osie for idk what, scumread Dawn for flawed claiming and possible counterclaiming, scumread Last for chooosing Betray when he announced it beforehand... can you please walk me through your thought process?
it's impossible to paint me as a neutral when I have BP requirements, which leaves me as either scum or town. if mafia can carry out their factional kills without BP worries, I'm sure we have a neutral who aren't locked down by BP conditions as well - which leads to me thinking you're the neutral.
Iso/Shin are counters to my claim, and if I'm not neutral we can sort them out. the most I can squeeze in is an extra killing role, but not roleblocking. scum needs at least 1 roleblocker.
you scumread Terry for leading a lynch on you, and our agreement leads you to an omgus association.... I guess, you have an omgus'y playstyle?
I don't usually jump a vote on someone unless I'm fishing for reactions. even if a cop claimed me guilty, there could be a framer or transporter in play. the person who suspected you was just a tracker. maybe we have a difference in playstyle, and I've noticed you're a very....reactive person - someone who tends to scumread anyone who scumreads you. I'm not a reactive player, just a confusing one.
and I'm not sure about Shin, he challenges my townread on him all the time, then plays victim when I finally scumread him.... it's bizarre. I'd rather not deal with him if I can help it.
everything I say is legitimately maddening? alright. you should also reflect on yourself and consider informing others of your schedule beforehand, since anything said during the game can be a lie. I'm just playing the game as it is.
hmmm... I don't think scum would dare to kill by Betrayal, so it's NAI. it could be a nasty experience for whoever Betrayed you, but I think the benefit of gaining your ability outweights that misfortune.
because it controls a portion of this setup. anyone who stands to gain your ability via Betray gets more than they lose, which doesn't tally up to the crime of killing a First Responder.
Be grateful, always."
So the new votes that jumped in were, Shinichi on LW and KJ and Axel on ISO. Neither of these lynches happen. Suddenly, with 4 hours left, votes start piling onto Town Grape, who at the time was at ZERO votes. Post #3345 by DBS calls for a CFD onto Grape, Town DV drops the first vote (#3347). DBS follows suit (#3353). ISO declares 100% against a Grape Lynch (#3363). Kaba comes in and adds to the LW train (#3447), which interestingly puts LW at L-1 as far as I can tell. Then KABAM! Az flip in with a huge "Guys, LW is not scum" post (#3463). This is when the LW L-1 wagon crumbles. Interestingly DBS misreps the VC in post #3467 saying that LW only has 7 votes not 8. Kaba also points out that its stupid to derail onto a grape CFD (#3468). Grape gets off the LW wagon onto Jenna (#3477). This is a strange play by him. LW goes over to Grape (#3478). It was clear that ISO wasn't going to be the Lynch, so he's going for a different counter wagon to his own. Seems like the correct play. Az goes Grape (#3493), but still is arguing to defend LW. ISO follows Az onto Grape (#3496). Osi reluctantly goes over to Grape (#3498). Here's a new snap shot:Ok, two hours left and it's a three way toss up. Shin picks ISO (#3582) tying ISO and Grape at 6. Killjoy goes Grape from ISO (#3599). Shin switches over to Grape, but more for the sake of having a Lynch and not really calling GF scum (#3642) and I have to come in and hammer Grape even though I preferred LW to both of these. Here's the final vote count:
Considering this and that I am incredibly suspicious of Az, but willing to give him a shot AND considering that I'm willing to trust Phoenix that he's giving us flips for one more night, I think I want to go back to the LW Lynch. He was at L-1. Here's a list of the people that could have hammered him but didn't:
DV (Town)
DBS
Jenna
Az
Just looking at that list I would be ecstatic to Lynch Last Whisper. $5 says he flips BP stealer. Or did Shin block him?
Let's start this wagon:
VOTE: LAST WHISPER
Be grateful, always."
No ones even claimed this yet have that? We only know the possiblity exists because someone said they lost bp which could be a lie as well.
Be grateful, always."
Killjoy
Osie
Azrael
Iso
DBS (though, if I am being honest, this is partly just because then he would not be posting anymore...)
The list of people I am not onboard with lynching today even though one or more of them is almost certainly scum:
Kaba
tom
LW
Cyth
Terry
Phoenix (who has been demoted because of the track result, but who still reads all kind of behaviorally town)
The list of people I currently actively think are Town:
Shin
Jenna
LnGrrr
This is all I got. I don't have the time or energy to make a case on anyone.
You literally just agreed with tom then agreed with Terry lol.
I agree but we have no idea if wisp is telling the truth about his ability after all he stated that he didnt use his ability.
Why tho, why are people so hung up on that information?
If town is convinced not to vote phoenix then your my next bet if no one still doesnt want to vote dawn just saying.
We dont need the killing roles to progress its not like we're in a state that will make us lose if you dont shoot someone so it matters not abot killing roles, while invest roles can pretty much solve the game quicker.
Again why would you believe that, its the 2nd most convienent thing he said outside his role claim. Also the 2nd time hes had information clarified by bur. Well what you write on paper is what matters the most in the game just saying.
SO nothing else matters to you, but his role? The interaction, the behavior, his posts? Only think that you care about is the usefulness of his ability which could be scum aligned am i wrong to state that unless you know otherwise which would imply your scum.
Also I want phoenix lynched to and i can give 2 *****s about how helpful his aiblity is to town.
Be grateful, always."
You can look at it that way sure, but hes a scum read so why the hell would I let that pass by just cause of his role claim.
Fair enough lol
1.Your an adult lol please don't say those are insults, because if you consider those personal attacks then i deal with that every god damn day so please stop. You like to use meta so if you think me calling you miss meta is an insult then don't use meta so much lmfao.
2.I included that cause its in my roles text, I didnt just decide to add that to frame you. I mean your welcome to believe what you want, but once i am lynched its going to make your life alot harder since the text is clearly there.
3.I am, but just like me half the game wants to town read you XD.
4.I wonder.
5.I will roleblock him because I am town, if I was scum I would prob still roleblock him because bussing is fun lmfao.
6.Cause petty would be ignoring me cause you don't like what I am saying, which is what a few other players have also been doing. I on the otherhand would never do soemthing like that.
I mean If the scum are evil by flavor then their are plenty of characters that I would know were scummy by nature if they claimed that, grape character is scummy in a sense flavor wise if you played the first game. So i can tell thats not the case, atleast thats my opinion.
This post is something else mainly cause of how ahrd it is for me to reply to it
-Can I start off by saying You saying your role helps town means literally nothing seeing as how your role usefulness is up to us not you.
-Your role is common atleast the general aspect of it is, I don't know about him i want you lynched because its way to convienent and that i cant roleblock you.
-SO i have to ask, is this passive all you have? No other abilities? I ask because I have 1 ability and 2 passives so the question has come to my mind.
-I can prove you too, but you seem to be against that seeing as how you had to ask if you your ability can be blocked. If you were town wouldnt you be all up for being able to have an ability that can be proven?
-What Process?
-So that one post from DBS does it make her scum? If so why say that, and no I dont agree it gives scum vibes because I also like the idea of lynching you.
-Why would scum kill you? If actually hurts them just as well, because they wont be able to see the strength of the roles through the flips.
-Why haven't you looked at me? I strongly agree you need to be lynched but you didnt quote any of my posts about you ik they exist, youve mainly only been focused on Terry.
-Passive multi targetting seems hard to believe and I rather not test that theory out cause it requires multiple deaths which i rather not see.
-Do you think one of the roleblockers has to be scum?
-Did you really vote twice in 1 posts -_-
-What do you mean if u die your ability is broadcasted?
-So are your scum reads Last/DBS/Terry/Osi?
-Town shouldn't care about roles, but at the same time having the roles out there helps them understand the setup which in turn helps mafia also understand the setup.
I mean it comes with the allying nothing i can do about that.
[b]No, it's passive. I don't have any way to use BP.[/b]
again that doesnt correlate with anything we've learned so far, it makes no sense for you to have absolutely no costs...
[b]Actually, I kind of want a masslcaim toDay.[/b]
I'd rather not have anymore role claims, please and thank you... what even is the benefit other than just cause?
[b]I really don't like this post. Have you paid attention to whether anyone has changed their mind in this grouping? FYI, I did; Last is not my preferred lynch target, why is he yours? Has anything he's done made you second guess?[/b]
I mean what has made you second guess, and as we can see up ahead, it wasnt enough to prevent you from omgus voteing me...
[b]You don't think scum would even think about killing me? Really? And you're completely missing the point of how to use claims and behavior; a scummy player with a "must kill" claim should not be lynched because it wastes a lynch when you can conceivably count on them to be sorted out, it doesn't go the other way just because you don't like someone's role.[/b]
Why are you wining urself and speculating on the NK? Whoever dies, dies, and it makes you look bad. Your defended urself with terrible reasonings here, who defines what is a "must kill?" Its not a waste of a lynch if you flip scum, and I guess to be fair, you havent done anything scummy except being caught visiting D.V, and having a claim, that scares town away from lynching you...
[b]Your progression just makes no sense to me. I've not even been here, you haven't even tried to interact with me.
I can't help get the feeling that this is sinister in motivation; your conviction towards me feels generated and calculated, and it lines up with waiting to see if I'm mislynchable, and when other people expressed suspicion of me, you knew that pushing me was safe.
What caused you to escalate so quickly?[/b]
"What caused you to escalate so quickly," ironic when you look at the progression of this post lol... and why exactly does it feel generated and calculated, if it is as you say, then dont be so ambigious and explain your reasoning... and how are you mislynchable, because your role is too good? Wish my role gave me a free pass...
[b]And I'm back to thinking Last is scum. He's preemptively deflecting blame for when I flip, he's apologizing to me; he knows I'm town here.
Unvote, Vote Last Whisper[/b]
How am I deflecting blame? I apologized because I was one of your biggest supporters, and after coming to my realization and seeing everyone elses posts, I realized you had a higher chance than I originally thought of you being scum... it didnt happen in a split second, like your two omgus votes... and if I knew you were town I woulding be voting you because I am town also, like what...
[/b]Yeah, I think taking away BP is part of last's role. What is the point of this list except to shade people, but he prefaces with not wanting to point fingers.[/b]No its not, and explain to me why I wouldnt have just stated it when I claimed? and I wasnt pointing fingers, I just listed everyone that didnt claim yet, and once my lynch goes off, and if it does, you'll see that I wasnt lying and that other role does exist... whether its scum or not, I cant tell you...
[b]Happy to lynch Last or Terry
Don't really think anyone else is as clearly scum.[/b]
Lol, 11/10 progression right here boys...
again I am totally ok with my lynch just like I was day 1, except I'd be a little more bitter... 2 days left, and I dont recommend another CFD, so if my lynch is the most unanimous then I wont fight it lol... You and Osie seem to hide omgus votes by adding on details that literally mean nothing, honestly at least you added something new, unlike Osie who has just been scum reading me since day 1...
Catching up
here:
and while digging through things, you wrote me off as mafia, without a chance of being town:I've also noticed you side Osie alot.
2. I won't be deterred from lynching you even if you say that.
3. you've been scumreading me ever since your 1st post, so I would like to see the sense in it. please make a case on me. I've already spent plenty of time detailing the reasons I scumread you and townread Last.
5. just because you like to bus doesn't mean we should believe it.
---------------------------------
my scumreads for now are:
Shin/Phoenix/Osie and someone else.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
I honestly forgot i voted you lmfao, yet you betrayed me -_-
I voted LW? Pretty sure day 1 consisted of me voting DBS then voting Grape to make sure a lynch went through, the only way i would have voted LW was for the same reason it wouldnt have been cause i sucm read him.
vote killjoy