If Phoenix is indeed scum than KJ is almost definitely scum with him. Trying to argue that Occam's Razor doesn't point to Phoenix killing DV is ludicrous.
Phoenix was tracked to a dead DV. What are the explanations for this?
A) He killed DV
B) He has some crazy role no one has seen before where he passively visits every night kill victim
One of these is clearly simpler than the other
Why does everyone think it's a crazy role? He's just a Coroner..
I need to reconsider hwat the interactions with Tracker mean since I was likening it to Insane Cop targeting anyone, but the Insane cop is told he's insane and therefore gets to take that into account. The Tracker in this case is not told as such.
Maybe I'm confusing logical fallacies here.
I still think it's POSSIBLE that Pheonix made the kill, but extending probability onto it given that we lack so much info seems illogical.
Here's a fun fact: If I get enough BP, I will be able to prove without a doubt if Pheonix is telling the truth.
Note: not an alignment cop ability though.
@Tom: And I'm saying you don't have enough info to conclude that he is scum by reason of commiting the nightkill. There is not enough info to accurately come to that conclusion. He's felt pretty townie and his role seems legit.Throwing your arms up and saying "Well he must be scum then" while ignoring that is mostly where my issue lies here.
that might be relevant if i was pushing to lynch him AND he flipped town
neither of those things has happened
like, im not ignoring it. if i thought he was scummy and he just said "nope didnt target dv last night" he'd... already be lynched probably.
so obviously im taking it into account. i even spent an hour or so figuring out who else might have killed dv based on responses to jenna's gambit.
hes townie. the role is possible. he probably just killed DV. period.
Ok. Maybe I jumped the gun on you and LnGrrR by saying you guys were for lynching him.
It just felt like you guys came out of nowhere with the whole "he's scum" thing.
@Tom: And I'm saying you don't have enough info to conclude that he is scum by reason of commiting the nightkill. There is not enough info to accurately come to that conclusion. He's felt pretty townie and his role seems legit.Throwing your arms up and saying "Well he must be scum then" while ignoring that is mostly where my issue lies here.
Why do you think his role "seems legit"? You said you've never seen anything like it. No one else has either. History points to Bur usually posting flips. What exactly about his role seems legit?
I'm not saying he is definitely lying, but I want to know what gives you confidence he's telling the truth.
A few things:
Like I said earlier, it's a very flavorful take on Carlos. Carlos is a goodytwoshoes firefighter who would totally rush in first to save people. Him being a First Responder who is first on the scene of a dead body to reveal it's role is... basically a mafia version of him.
I said it earlier: If he's scum and made that up, bravo. I'm more inclined to believe he's not falseclaiming, simply because of how well it fits.
Sidenote: First Responder implies that he would visit his target.
Mechanically though, it's not that out there. This isn't a Taredas role. While he's alive, full roles are posted on death. He's a passive Coroner. The role itself isn't that crazy. It's just uncommon.
Not only is this a good response by LnGrrrR, but it also revisits a post by Kabazame that I initially frowned at but moved on. Upon review, I find that I haven't agreed with Kabazame in a while. Additionally, he has been reacting to roles, not behavior, which only increases my suspicion of him. It does not look good for Kabazame.
@Jenna: Why did you go with this elaborate plan of pretending to be a watcher targeting D_V? Why not just say outright that you tracked Phoenix to D_V? This seems, well, overwrought.
Like, there wasn't even a gain from someone claiming that they visited D_V for something different. Phoenix looks marginally more suspect, but he's also been one of the towniest players this entire game. It's not significant enough after his claim.
I answered that in episode 1 of season 2. I cannot research when that was, but it was alongside my vote on Phoenix. I hope that helps.
Shinichi With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
What does my post have to do with defending Dawn?
Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
Well I mean if you keep wining urself like this, your bound to get manipulated, we will deal with it as time comes, but the more you talk about it, the more that mafia can manipulate the game. Yes I know that Doc claims are scummy as hell, and yes Azrael as been scummy, as well as towny at points, will I be voting him today? Hell no...
They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
Says who? your trying to lead town in a terrible direction, because as Grrr stated its still totally possible for you to both be town, with maybe one of you being being tpr... and if you flip scum, what then?
I know its possible that 2 town roleblockers can exist, i literally just argued how our roles are different and completely balanced as town the fact that DBS doesnt see that is whats makng me think she is the scum roleblocker.
-Ive seen a mafia doctor before, but i think in that setup there was a town vigilante with a 1 shot so was so hard to sort of the doctor. Stating it or not I doubt mafia are going to be like "Lets keep the doc and vig alive because 1 PERSON IS GOING TO SCUM READ THEM FOR SAIDA CTION" You think too highly of my 1 opnion and 1 vote.
-That sort of logic makes me distrust your read on Osi.
1. Then exactly why do you scum read her???
2. I was a mafia doctor once, I know it can exist, again ur still wining urself... stop bringing this up, its not something we should be thinking about as of right now..
3. Why?
Her way of thinking and the swiss swassing with her reads.
-When was this wtf?
-Look at the post and read what you wrote its distasteful as a town to say yep i am locking my vote.
Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
why not Shin? you want Azrael to protect me, which means I'm more likely a townread. Shin's claim is a direct counter to my role, and he claimed it after a mislynch. I think with 2 possible roleblockers, sorting us is better.
What!? No. I hope as doesn't protect you. Why would he protect you? Why are you implying I said that?
It's not that hard. We have a guilty result on Phoenix.
Shinichi With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
What does my post have to do with defending Dawn?
Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
Well I mean if you keep wining urself like this, your bound to get manipulated, we will deal with it as time comes, but the more you talk about it, the more that mafia can manipulate the game. Yes I know that Doc claims are scummy as hell, and yes Azrael as been scummy, as well as towny at points, will I be voting him today? Hell no...
They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
Says who? your trying to lead town in a terrible direction, because as Grrr stated its still totally possible for you to both be town, with maybe one of you being being tpr... and if you flip scum, what then?
I know its possible that 2 town roleblockers can exist, i literally just argued how our roles are different and completely balanced as town the fact that DBS doesnt see that is whats makng me think she is the scum roleblocker.
-Ive seen a mafia doctor before, but i think in that setup there was a town vigilante with a 1 shot so was so hard to sort of the doctor. Stating it or not I doubt mafia are going to be like "Lets keep the doc and vig alive because 1 PERSON IS GOING TO SCUM READ THEM FOR SAIDA CTION" You think too highly of my 1 opnion and 1 vote.
-That sort of logic makes me distrust your read on Osi.
1. Then exactly why do you scum read her???
2. I was a mafia doctor once, I know it can exist, again ur still wining urself... stop bringing this up, its not something we should be thinking about as of right now..
3. Why?
Her way of thinking and the swiss swassing with her reads.
-When was this wtf?
-Look at the post and read what you wrote its distasteful as a town to say yep i am locking my vote.
ok maybe it wasnt me that was the mafia doctor, but im 90% sure I was mafia with someone that was lol.
you may think its distasteful but isnt there other people in this game that also said they were locking in their votes, maybe I am wrong, w/e... But I dont see a universe where Osie flips town in this game, so thats my way of saying that he is scum beyond a doubt
Are you really saying shin is the correct play over the tracked guilty?
Being tagged by a watcher would be a lot more damning than being tagged by a tracker, with a plausible explanation and a squeaky clean behavioral record. I'm not terribly ecstatic about the role explanation and the possible mod retcon, but I think there are far superior targets from a behavioral standpoint.
The problems with Phoenix's claim:
1. Lynches: SO you think he visits the lynchee after there lynched to give us role info?
2. Multiple kills: I have a hard time imagining a role that has to be in two places at once.
3. Bur has never hidden role info before.
No, I want to lynch phoenix because there are a few holes in his claim and we have a tracker claim confirming he was at the murder scene. Az and jenna can do what they want, but I think they get sorted out tonight.
Are you really saying shin is the correct play over the tracked guilty?
even if the claim may have holes, don't forget tracker can easily be a fakeclaim. if we're going for something with an eyewitness, the counterclaim is a good start since we all saw it. according to Last, Shinichi doesn't believe there can ever be two of the same alignment, so it's outright strange that he didn't address my claim sooner...only after we ended up mislynching.
Let's walk through how Jenna is not fake claiming.
Ok, imagine Jenna was scum, like I originally thought, she lies about being a tracker, but somehow gets Phoenix to admit he visited DV against his control. Not happening.
The only way Jenna is lying about her role is if she is scum WITH Phoenix, so if we Lynch phoenix we still get scum. If Phoenix is telling the truth, I don't think not knowing role info is particularly hurtful to town, but much more so to scum. Even if Phoenix is telling the truth, I actually see it as a better scum role than town role. With the roles publicly announced on a flip, scum get to know if, say a cop, is dead. They then know to mark that one off their fake claim list, but with no role info revealed a fake claim of a cop is much more risky because you don't know if there is a counter claim floating around or not.
I made a whole long post about Phoenix and lost it. I'm not recreating it.
Basically I concluded that as scum this would be a very elaborate planned out gambit - probably too elaborate - or a very fortuitous and quick thinking false claim from Phoenix - fortuitous because of his apparent role as "Carlos" which apparently fits this flavor very well (I know nothing of the flavor).
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
And I still don't want to vote him, concerned as I am.
Also, Iso made a questionable post while the whole thing was going on. like "I don't believe Phoenix but I still want to lynch Azrael" which made no sense.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
1. behaviorally, you focused too much on me while justifying it as a possible tunnel - instead of backing out and thinking it over.
2. mechanically, you counterclaimed late. you had the ticket to escape the lynch on your townread, but you still hammered him, saying you intend to hound me if he flipped town - looks like fishing towncred off the dying townie. you yourself know and believe that town cannot have 2 of the same alignment, but now you're trying to argue that maybe this is just a tunnel and that we're both town. doesn't add up.
3. I've seen a bulletproof SK. not sure about roleblocking. I really hope town will lynch me if that's the only way to prove my theory correct. I know I am town, so I'm sure you are scum - due to the fact you're a roleblocking variant. in fact, my flip will tie together many loose points. push my case if you actually scumread me, don't just sit on it knowing my lynch won't happen...because you're only 1 vote. fueling the Azrael wagon won't help you lynch me fyi.
4. why do you feel the need to reference an old game then, in regards to role wording? I thought you said you don't care about other games, and only this one.
5. but tell me...
how do you intend to roleblock Phoenix Tonight? looking back at your claim, you're a Delayed Roleblocker who can block only by the next phase. there is also no guarantee that you will be paired up with Phoenix, or have the sufficient BP (4) to transfer the effects over since you're currently at (2).
6. if your personal feelings are getting in the way, please calm down. I've had to hear you talking about me like I'm 'so smart' or 'acting like a god'. you're not one to talk about "petty behavior".
@Tom @LnG
if I am town, what does that make Shin? I know that I am town, that is why I'm sure Shin is scum. town cannot have 2 roleblockers, and Shin is too under-powered to be a neutral. if you want to argue that Dawn/Shin is town/neutral, then it's still fine to focus on us - you can figure out the neutral along with the setup. town is throwing away an important lead here if they won't lynch between Dawn/Shin.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Axel, pow wow with me here. I don't think we can NOT Lynch phoenix. I get that he's been relatively townish, but Az has been super scummy. We are OK not lynching Az because he's been scummy, but claimed a town role. However, Phoenix is the opposite, he's been towny, but claimed a scum role AND got tracked to the N1 kill site.
I mean Jenna, clearly tracked Phoenix there (we are in agreement that this is too complex to be a S/S gambit, which is the only situation where I think Jenna is scum). So we have a tracker and a role that visits the dead person/people every night? Seems borderline bastard to me. I mean Phoenix would have been the perfect scum to send to do the factional kill precisely because he's been vernally town read. I also don't like how many people have been acting like his claim means that we won't get alignment info, which is all I really care about. If he is telling the truth (which I doubt), it's not a big deal if we don't see that the next person we Lynch is the BP counter and knows how much BP target player has (totally made up).
1. behaviorally, you focused too much on me while justifying it as a possible tunnel - instead of backing out and thinking it over. at this point ur focus on chad is just as much a tunnel as his was....
2. mechanically, you counterclaimed late. you had the ticket to escape the lynch on your townread, but you still hammered him, saying you intend to hound me if he flipped town - looks like fishing towncred off the dying townie. you yourself know and believe that town cannot have 2 of the same alignment, but now you're trying to argue that maybe this is just a tunnel and that we're both town. doesn't add up. again, you both technically are true roleblockers, i mean u are more than him, but you have two abilities and he has a multitude of passives, and just FYI both ur roles could be tpr... just saying
3. I've seen a bulletproof SK. not sure about roleblocking. I really hope town will lynch me if that's the only way to prove my theory correct. I know I am town, so I'm sure you are scum - due to the fact you're a roleblocking variant. in fact, my flip will tie together many loose points. push my case if you actually scumread me, don't just sit on it knowing my lynch won't happen...because you're only 1 vote. fueling the Azrael wagon won't help you lynch me fyi. kinda hypocritcal of you to give up after u just told me to keep moving forward, and no, I'd rather neither of you two were lynched today... and FYI I highly doubt Az is getting lynched today, if anyones claim has a chance of still being lynched its Pheonix's
4. why do you feel the need to reference an old game then, in regards to role wording? I thought you said you don't care about other games, and only this one. Shin says that a lot but still uses it, again not alignment indicative...
5. but tell me...
how do you intend to roleblock Phoenix Tonight? looking back at your claim, you're a Delayed Roleblocker who can block only by the next phase. there is also no guarantee that you will be paired up with Phoenix, or have the sufficient BP (4) to transfer the effects over since you're currently at (2). I mean if he said that its pretty wrong, unless by chance he does... cause I did betray which mean he doesnt have enough bp... but you could also RB pheonix
6. if your personal feelings are getting in the way, please calm down. I've had to hear you talking about me like I'm 'so smart' or 'acting like a god'. you're not one to talk about "petty behavior". I plead the 5th
@Tom @LnG
if I am town, what does that make Shin? I know that I am town, that is why I'm sure Shin is scum. town cannot have 2 roleblockers, and Shin is too under-powered to be a neutral. if you want to argue that Dawn/Shin is town/neutral, then it's still fine to focus on us - you can figure out the neutral along with the setup. town is throwing away an important lead here if they won't lynch between Dawn/Shin.
Stuff in bold inside the quote is my reponse to her quotes
Notes:
1. Plz for the love of god remove yourselves from this MAL circle, you, me, and shin are not the only people in this game. You both are playing like nincompoops... lol
2. Phraze, remember that bad tunnel on logic, again I have to bring it up b/c the way ur acting reminds me of your only scum game ive ever seen, and ur not making it easier for me to trust you over shin. Honestly at this point I dont trust either of you...
3. Town cant have two roleblockers, but again one is a delayed roleblocker/bp giver, and one is a roleblocker/vigi, so this isnt as simple as saying, "There cant be two town roleblockes," and dont tell me you dont see that.
4. If your conclusion is that you and shin are town/neutral, then plz get back to scum hunting, and I wont follow ur vote onto shin...
5. What lead???? IF THIS WAS SIMPLY TWO ROLEBLOCKERS THEN SHIN WOULD BE THE LYNCH BUT ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE, YOUR LEADING TOWN INTO A POSSIBLE MISLYNCH WITH THIS KIND OF TALK...
Also, Iso made a questionable post while the whole thing was going on. like "I don't believe Phoenix but I still want to lynch Azrael" which made no sense.
I'm the kind of guy that likes to stick to my guns, so to speak.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, Iso made a questionable post while the whole thing was going on. like "I don't believe Phoenix but I still want to lynch Azrael" which made no sense.
I'm the kind of guy that likes to stick to my guns, so to speak.
@Jenna: Why did you go with this elaborate plan of pretending to be a watcher targeting D_V? Why not just say outright that you tracked Phoenix to D_V? This seems, well, overwrought.
Like, there wasn't even a gain from someone claiming that they visited D_V for something different. Phoenix looks marginally more suspect, but he's also been one of the towniest players this entire game. It's not significant enough after his claim.
I answered that in episode 1 of season 2. I cannot research when that was, but it was alongside my vote on Phoenix. I hope that helps.
Yeah, I saw that. It still seemed somewhat excessive.
Axel, pow wow with me here. I don't think we can NOT Lynch phoenix. I get that he's been relatively townish, but Az has been super scummy. We are OK not lynching Az because he's been scummy, but claimed a town role. However, Phoenix is the opposite, he's been towny, but claimed a scum role AND got tracked to the N1 kill site.
I mean Jenna, clearly tracked Phoenix there (we are in agreement that this is too complex to be a S/S gambit, which is the only situation where I think Jenna is scum). So we have a tracker and a role that visits the dead person/people every night? Seems borderline bastard to me. I mean Phoenix would have been the perfect scum to send to do the factional kill precisely because he's been vernally town read. I also don't like how many people have been acting like his claim means that we won't get alignment info, which is all I really care about. If he is telling the truth (which I doubt), it's not a big deal if we don't see that the next person we Lynch is the BP counter and knows how much BP target player has (totally made up).
'k I will pow wow with you.
We are in agreement that Jenna only really looks like she could be scum in an elaborate s/s gambit with Phoenix which I do not believe. I'm accepting her track result on Phoenix.
And I'm in agreement that this role claim is borderline bastard in a game with a Tracker role.
Whether or not some people seem to be acting like his claim means we wouldn't get alignment flips on death is neither here nor there. Nor is the issue of how big a "loss" it would be to the Town if he's telling the truth.
My issue is: how lucky/brilliant is Phoenix here?
When Jenna claims she "watched" DV, scum-phoenix knows she saw him, yes? He's caught. So now, what does he do? Now, his role is already "Carlos" yes? We don't think he's lying about that because, why would he? And "Carlos" is apparently some kind of Doctor/medical person? So, scum-phoenix could try to fashion some kind of false-claim around this, I suppose, except, he obviously can't claim Doctor. So he comes up this false-claim about always going to the scene, which is conveniently very in line with his character. Okay, maybe that's possible.
But then, and here's kind of the point, he doesn't claim it. He maintains he didn't go to DV and Jenna is lying and votes her.
Wait, what? How does that jibe with him false-claiming? Isn't the entire point of false claiming trying to make your claim believable with the evidence? Why didn't he say he targeted DV?
Of course, later he says he did. And it's all a big "my bad, I didn't realize this was how it worked..." And that's just not how I see a scum false-claiming in this situation. It's too elaborate. Do you think he planned it all? Planned to lie, and bluff, and then reverse himself? And again, that only works because of how conveniently his role/character fits this ability. That's just some incredible planning and fortuitous coincidence working out for him there.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Terry
Idk who are refering to when you say everyone, but I know that Pheonixs death wont stop alignment info...
1. at first when Pheonix called Jenna, "I cant even visit people you liar," it didnt feel like town that thought he caught mafia, it felt more like mafia who thought that had an ez way of killing w/o being caught. In this case the simpliest answer was that, yes, he killed DV
2. then Phoenix caught himself, so either he knew he screwed up, or he honestly didnt read his role, and with the way he apologized to Jenna, it felt like the latter.
3. I mean if Phoenix lied, then its one hell of a lie, but I think his role may exist for a reason.
4. I'd also rather not spend the game speculating on the roles of all the deceased...
He also, incidentally, gets caught with this claim if there are other roles out there (like, you know, an actual Watcher) and they don't see/track him to a death. Maybe the scum get around this by always having him be the one to do the kill, but as has been noted, he can get RBed, and then what? Are the scum going to miss a kill to try and frame him?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Axel, pow wow with me here. I don't think we can NOT Lynch phoenix. I get that he's been relatively townish, but Az has been super scummy. We are OK not lynching Az because he's been scummy, but claimed a town role. However, Phoenix is the opposite, he's been towny, but claimed a scum role AND got tracked to the N1 kill site.
I mean Jenna, clearly tracked Phoenix there (we are in agreement that this is too complex to be a S/S gambit, which is the only situation where I think Jenna is scum). So we have a tracker and a role that visits the dead person/people every night? Seems borderline bastard to me. I mean Phoenix would have been the perfect scum to send to do the factional kill precisely because he's been vernally town read. I also don't like how many people have been acting like his claim means that we won't get alignment info, which is all I really care about. If he is telling the truth (which I doubt), it's not a big deal if we don't see that the next person we Lynch is the BP counter and knows how much BP target player has (totally made up).
'k I will pow wow with you.
We are in agreement that Jenna only really looks like she could be scum in an elaborate s/s gambit with Phoenix which I do not believe. I'm accepting her track result on Phoenix.
And I'm in agreement that this role claim is borderline bastard in a game with a Tracker role.
Whether or not some people seem to be acting like his claim means we wouldn't get alignment flips on death is neither here nor there. Nor is the issue of how big a "loss" it would be to the Town if he's telling the truth.
My issue is: how lucky/brilliant is Phoenix here?
When Jenna claims she "watched" DV, scum-phoenix knows she saw him, yes? He's caught. So now, what does he do? Now, his role is already "Carlos" yes? We don't think he's lying about that because, why would he? And "Carlos" is apparently some kind of Doctor/medical person? So, scum-phoenix could try to fashion some kind of false-claim around this, I suppose, except, he obviously can't claim Doctor. So he comes up this false-claim about always going to the scene, which is conveniently very in line with his character. Okay, maybe that's possible.
But then, and here's kind of the point, he doesn't claim it. He maintains he didn't go to DV and Jenna is lying and votes her.
Wait, what? How does that jibe with him false-claiming? Isn't the entire point of false claiming trying to make your claim believable with the evidence? Why didn't he say he targeted DV?
Of course, later he says he did. And it's all a big "my bad, I didn't realize this was how it worked..." And that's just not how I see a scum false-claiming in this situation. It's too elaborate. Do you think he planned it all? Planned to lie, and bluff, and then reverse himself? And again, that only works because of how conveniently his role/character fits this ability. That's just some incredible planning and fortuitous coincidence working out for him there.
I don't think it's that hard to believe that he came up with this role. I agree that the immediate counter vote then retraction with clarification seems like a town mistake, but it still doesn't line up to me. The role just doesn't seem to work as described like I pointed out in post #5223.
Terry
Idk who are refering to when you say everyone, but I know that Pheonixs death wont stop alignment info...
1. at first when Pheonix called Jenna, "I cant even visit people you liar," it didnt feel like town that thought he caught mafia, it felt more like mafia who thought that had an ez way of killing w/o being caught. In this case the simpliest answer was that, yes, he killed DV
2. then Phoenix caught himself, so either he knew he screwed up, or he honestly didnt read his role, and with the way he apologized to Jenna, it felt like the latter.
3. I mean if Phoenix lied, then its one hell of a lie, but I think his role may exist for a reason.
4. I'd also rather not spend the game speculating on the roles of all the deceased...
Points 1 and 2 sound like you are agreeing that Phoenix lied about his claim? 3 and 4 sound like you think he's town. Why do you care about roles of the deceased?
1. Lynches: SO you think he visits the lynchee after there lynched to give us role info?
I mean, mechanically, I have no issue with this. In as much as it's supposed to be a role that, as long as it's alive gives us full role reveals.
2. Multiple kills: I have a hard time imagining a role that has to be in two places at once.
I do not have a hard time imagining this. It is a bit bastardy.
3. Bur has never hidden role info before.
This was one of my first thoughts when he made the claim (or rather, my thought was - is this consistent with what Bur has done before). And it's not. Which leads me to the question, shouldn't Phoenix have thought about that too? Would he make a false claim like this knowing that it's inconsistent with the way Bur has always done it before?
I mean, he might, but it's kind of sloppy of Phoenix to not check that, or very ballsy of him to check it and claim it anyway.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
2. Phraze, remember that bad tunnel on logic, again I have to bring it up b/c the way ur acting reminds me of your only scum game ive ever seen, and ur not making it easier for me to trust you over shin. Honestly at this point I dont trust either of you...
have you forgotten my role in that game? I was vengeful. I even told you in the deadchat that I nightkilled you because your PoE wasn't focused on me.
I never out myself without a plan, if I'm scum. if town, there's more chances to be outed since I'm not in control of the board. 2 games I was lynched as scum - 1st game to mess with the setup, 2nd game to kill town. you underestimate me
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
1. Lynches: SO you think he visits the lynchee after there lynched to give us role info?
I mean, mechanically, I have no issue with this. In as much as it's supposed to be a role that, as long as it's alive gives us full role reveals.
2. Multiple kills: I have a hard time imagining a role that has to be in two places at once.
I do not have a hard time imagining this. It is a bit bastardy.
3. Bur has never hidden role info before.
This was one of my first thoughts when he made the claim (or rather, my thought was - is this consistent with what Bur has done before). And it's not. Which leads me to the question, shouldn't Phoenix have thought about that too? Would he make a false claim like this knowing that it's inconsistent with the way Bur has always done it before?
I mean, he might, but it's kind of sloppy of Phoenix to not check that, or very ballsy of him to check it and claim it anyway.
I wouldn't put it past Phoenix not to google other Bur games when coming up with the claim. It seemed kind of rushed, so I'd expect errors. Like, I can't think of a scenario where Jenna is scum besides being scum with Phoenix, so what worries me the most about lynching this guilty result (which is what it is) is that if Phoenix flips town, we don't get to automatic Jenna scum. So in a world where I can't imagine a scenario that makes Jenna scum, I trust her claim, but find it completely feasible that Phoenix's claim is made up, due to the number of holes in it.
Terry
Idk who are refering to when you say everyone, but I know that Pheonixs death wont stop alignment info...
1. at first when Pheonix called Jenna, "I cant even visit people you liar," it didnt feel like town that thought he caught mafia, it felt more like mafia who thought that had an ez way of killing w/o being caught. In this case the simpliest answer was that, yes, he killed DV
2. then Phoenix caught himself, so either he knew he screwed up, or he honestly didnt read his role, and with the way he apologized to Jenna, it felt like the latter.
3. I mean if Phoenix lied, then its one hell of a lie, but I think his role may exist for a reason.
4. I'd also rather not spend the game speculating on the roles of all the deceased...
Points 1 and 2 sound like you are agreeing that Phoenix lied about his claim? 3 and 4 sound like you think he's town. Why do you care about roles of the deceased?
1 is me thinking he liked, 2 is me thinking he told the truth... Because if phoenix's role and shins role are both the truth then I would seriously like to know what other different roles are in this game.
2. Phraze, remember that bad tunnel on logic, again I have to bring it up b/c the way ur acting reminds me of your only scum game ive ever seen, and ur not making it easier for me to trust you over shin. Honestly at this point I dont trust either of you...
have you forgotten my role in that game? I was vengeful. I even told you in the deadchat that I nightkilled you because your PoE wasn't focused on me.
I never out myself without a plan, if I'm scum. if town, there's more chances to be outed since I'm not in control of the board. 2 games I was lynched as scum - 1st game to mess with the setup, 2nd game to kill town. you underestimate me
hmm did not know that, lol, well there goes my slight scum read on you down the drain
4. If your conclusion is that you and shin are town/neutral, then plz get back to scum hunting, and I wont follow ur vote onto shin...
5. What lead???? IF THIS WAS SIMPLY TWO ROLEBLOCKERS THEN SHIN WOULD BE THE LYNCH BUT ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE, YOUR LEADING TOWN INTO A POSSIBLE MISLYNCH WITH THIS KIND OF TALK...
4. in my conclusion, the best can be town/neutral but it's impossible if I'm the town and he's the (underpowered) neutral. I know I'm town.
5. there's no mislynch here based off stats. roleblockers aren't scummy for no reason. Shin never claimed D1, and tried to push me as a lynch, he goes into D2 with a counterclaim for more reasons to justify himself. why? if he claimed roleblocker right away and I was lynched, he would be on the table by now. I won't delay it any further, if town must lynch me to prove it then do so.
have you forgotten my role in that game? I was vengeful. I even told you in the deadchat that I nightkilled you because your PoE wasn't focused on me.
I never out myself without a plan, if I'm scum. if town, there's more chances to be outed since I'm not in control of the board. 2 games I was lynched as scum - 1st game to mess with the setup, 2nd game to kill town. you underestimate me
I wouldn't have been that angry with Logic if he didn't get so personal about his ******* issues. I planned to lead town towards lynching me, but it wasn't supposed to be that upsetting =.=
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I wouldn't put it past Phoenix not to google other Bur games when coming up with the claim. It seemed kind of rushed, so I'd expect errors. Like, I can't think of a scenario where Jenna is scum besides being scum with Phoenix, so what worries me the most about lynching this guilty result (which is what it is) is that if Phoenix flips town, we don't get to automatic Jenna scum. So in a world where I can't imagine a scenario that makes Jenna scum, I trust her claim, but find it completely feasible that Phoenix's claim is made up, due to the number of holes in it.
So, I take from this you are operating on the theory that scum-phoenix did not have his false-claim prepared at the time he initially denied that he targeted DV, and only came up with it on the fly after Jenna outted him?
I have a harder time believing that.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Joe
Losing role info is a big deal.
Imagine if we lynched a scum role blocker or something and didn't know that and lynch through neutraldawn and town shin?
What if one of the people pushing scumaz rn is the actual doc that doesn't want to out themselves and scum kills them once were no flip.
I put the order of likelihood for phoenix at lying scum>town>truthful scum.
Still not voting there.
I don't think it's that hard to believe that he came up with this role. I agree that the immediate counter vote then retraction with clarification seems like a town mistake, but it still doesn't line up to me. The role just doesn't seem to work as described like I pointed out in post #5223.
I never believed Iso's counterclaim/retract anyways. accidents in regards to roles can come from either scum or town.
another thing that makes Phoenix's claim odd is how he voted Jenna right away, since town would normally question a tracker's results or even their alignment. the overly-defensive and omgus behavior doesn't look as town(?) as it may seem.
I'm fine with voting Phoenix, but I'd prefer Shin since he's apparently a roleblocker...
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Joe
Losing role info is a big deal.
Imagine if we lynched a scum role blocker or something and didn't know that and lynch through neutraldawn and town shin?
What if one of the people pushing scumaz rn is the actual doc that doesn't want to out themselves and scum kills them once were no flip.
I put the order of likelihood for phoenix at lying scum>town>truthful scum.
Still not voting there.
Though I thought it was alignment flips too will have to go look at claim again when not on a phone
I'm Carlos, Town First Responder
Passive:
Scene of the Crime: Whenever a player dies, you will gather info about their role. When their alignment is revealed, as long as you are alive, that info will be public, showing all of their ability details and starting BP. If your BP reaches zero by betrayal, this ability passes to the player who betrayed you. If you die in any other way, it does not pass.
on 2nd thought... yeah better not lynch. at least the AB game can fix it. (I wonder if scum abilities are AB-influenced)
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I wouldn't put it past Phoenix not to google other Bur games when coming up with the claim. It seemed kind of rushed, so I'd expect errors. Like, I can't think of a scenario where Jenna is scum besides being scum with Phoenix, so what worries me the most about lynching this guilty result (which is what it is) is that if Phoenix flips town, we don't get to automatic Jenna scum. So in a world where I can't imagine a scenario that makes Jenna scum, I trust her claim, but find it completely feasible that Phoenix's claim is made up, due to the number of holes in it.
So, I take from this you are operating on the theory that scum-phoenix did not have his false-claim prepared at the time he initially denied that he targeted DV, and only came up with it on the fly after Jenna outted him?
I have a harder time believing that.
I think it's feasible that he came out with the gut response of going 1 v 1, but then came up with the role and redacted his no visit claim.
I think it's feasible that he came out with the gut response of going 1 v 1, but then came up with the role and redacted his no visit claim.
See, and here I'm in the realm of "yeah, it's feasible, but how much do I want to bet that farm on that?" And I'm coming back to myself with "not very much."
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Joe
Losing role info is a big deal.
Imagine if we lynched a scum role blocker or something and didn't know that and lynch through neutraldawn and town shin?
What if one of the people pushing scumaz rn is the actual doc that doesn't want to out themselves and scum kills them once were no flip.
I put the order of likelihood for phoenix at lying scum>town>truthful scum.
Still not voting there.
Though I thought it was alignment flips too will have to go look at claim again when not on a phone
I'm Carlos, Town First Responder
Passive:
Scene of the Crime: Whenever a player dies, you will gather info about their role. When their alignment is revealed, as long as you are alive, that info will be public, showing all of their ability details and starting BP. If your BP reaches zero by betrayal, this ability passes to the player who betrayed you. If you die in any other way, it does not pass.
on 2nd thought... yeah better not lynch. at least the AB game can fix it. (I wonder if scum abilities are AB-influenced)
AB can't fix it. Phoenix probably has 6 BP give or take at this point right? Those can't get dwindled down by the time phoenix needs to be lynched.
I think it's feasible that he came out with the gut response of going 1 v 1, but then came up with the role and redacted his no visit claim.
See, and here I'm in the realm of "yeah, it's feasible, but how much do I want to bet that farm on that?" And I'm coming back to myself with "not very much."
And I'm saying you're farm isn't worth much, so it's worth the gamble. I don't buy that this ability helps town as much as it helps scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So, I had another pet theory, and asked Bur if alignments were at all randomized with roles, and he told me he can't answer that question.
I'm not really happy with that answer.
ok just remember its bm to use that as an arguement in your theories, "cant answer", does not mean, yes, nor does it mean no, it strictly means "I cant answer that." and the Az lynch is most likely not happening today, move on...
AB can't fix it. Phoenix probably has 6 BP give or take at this point right? Those can't get dwindled down by the time phoenix needs to be lynched.
hmm true. he got 3+ from me.. I wonder if this means I should adjust my Betray/Ally policy. a possible setup without information on roles means we'll need to sift through claims. I can live with the trade-off.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
AB can't fix it. Phoenix probably has 6 BP give or take at this point right? Those can't get dwindled down by the time phoenix needs to be lynched.
hmm true. he got 3+ from me.. I wonder if this means I should adjust my Betray/Ally policy. a possible setup without information on roles means we'll need to sift through claims. I can live with the trade-off.
how did he get plus 3 from you? I need to find pheonixes role post when I get home, unless some one wants to find it for me, Ill be driving for an hour... :/ I want to check is role claim again, b/c I realized something
So, I had another pet theory, and asked Bur if alignments were at all randomized with roles, and he told me he can't answer that question.
I'm not really happy with that answer.
I like the less-pushy Iso. just saying lol. roles doesn't guarantee alignment where I come from: vengeful can be mafia-aligned, cop ends up being role cop and the only one in the game, some visitor ability can be mafia-aligned, etc. I don't believe roles mean you're aligned to this or that
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
how did he get plus 3 from you? I need to find pheonixes role post when I get home, unless some one wants to find it for me, Ill be driving for an hour... :/ I want to check is role claim again, b/c I realized something
Dawn/Phoenix: A/B. Phoenix got 3+ from that round. the role is bumped at #5255, just up there.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
how did he get plus 3 from you? I need to find pheonixes role post when I get home, unless some one wants to find it for me, Ill be driving for an hour... :/ I want to check is role claim again, b/c I realized something
Dawn/Phoenix: A/B. Phoenix got 3+ from that round. the role is bumped at #5255, just up there.
nvm Im an idiot again... also
Phoenix
Does ur ability cost anything? Does it have any limitations? I find it wierd that you failed to mention ur bp costs or if u have thresholds... and I doubt that you have none... cause that wouldn't correlate with anything we've learned so far. and if you die from betrays, someone else gets ur ability? lmao you would never let urself die from betray... that doesnt make any sense, unless u wanted to kill urself to clear everyones PoE...
roleblocking options:
Iso/Shinichi ~ I think so
Osie/Killjoy
Phoenix/Cyth
Shinichi mentioned closed setups..
Phoenix is apparently a proof to closed setups..
Shinichi/Phoenix could be a thing..
Osie/Shin interaction shows they aren't aligned, or theatre
DV mentioned potential Daychat.. along with the unvoting vig thing
Killjoy/Osie is intense scum theatre.. dunno
Iso/Shinichi/Phoenix/Killjoy or Osie
don't forget Kaba/Cyth
I kind of...want to take Iso out and replace him with Kaba or Cyth...maybe Killjoy. or the shocking Azrael.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Her way of thinking and the swiss swassing with her reads.
-When was this wtf?
-Look at the post and read what you wrote its distasteful as a town to say yep i am locking my vote.
It's not that hard. We have a guilty result on Phoenix.
VOTE: Phoenix
you may think its distasteful but isnt there other people in this game that also said they were locking in their votes, maybe I am wrong, w/e... But I dont see a universe where Osie flips town in this game, so thats my way of saying that he is scum beyond a doubt
1. Lynches: SO you think he visits the lynchee after there lynched to give us role info?
2. Multiple kills: I have a hard time imagining a role that has to be in two places at once.
3. Bur has never hidden role info before.
Ok, imagine Jenna was scum, like I originally thought, she lies about being a tracker, but somehow gets Phoenix to admit he visited DV against his control. Not happening.
The only way Jenna is lying about her role is if she is scum WITH Phoenix, so if we Lynch phoenix we still get scum. If Phoenix is telling the truth, I don't think not knowing role info is particularly hurtful to town, but much more so to scum. Even if Phoenix is telling the truth, I actually see it as a better scum role than town role. With the roles publicly announced on a flip, scum get to know if, say a cop, is dead. They then know to mark that one off their fake claim list, but with no role info revealed a fake claim of a cop is much more risky because you don't know if there is a counter claim floating around or not.
Basically I concluded that as scum this would be a very elaborate planned out gambit - probably too elaborate - or a very fortuitous and quick thinking false claim from Phoenix - fortuitous because of his apparent role as "Carlos" which apparently fits this flavor very well (I know nothing of the flavor).
Also, Iso made a questionable post while the whole thing was going on. like "I don't believe Phoenix but I still want to lynch Azrael" which made no sense.
1. behaviorally, you focused too much on me while justifying it as a possible tunnel - instead of backing out and thinking it over.
2. mechanically, you counterclaimed late. you had the ticket to escape the lynch on your townread, but you still hammered him, saying you intend to hound me if he flipped town - looks like fishing towncred off the dying townie. you yourself know and believe that town cannot have 2 of the same alignment, but now you're trying to argue that maybe this is just a tunnel and that we're both town. doesn't add up.
3. I've seen a bulletproof SK. not sure about roleblocking. I really hope town will lynch me if that's the only way to prove my theory correct. I know I am town, so I'm sure you are scum - due to the fact you're a roleblocking variant. in fact, my flip will tie together many loose points. push my case if you actually scumread me, don't just sit on it knowing my lynch won't happen...because you're only 1 vote. fueling the Azrael wagon won't help you lynch me fyi.
4. why do you feel the need to reference an old game then, in regards to role wording? I thought you said you don't care about other games, and only this one.
5. but tell me...
how do you intend to roleblock Phoenix Tonight? looking back at your claim, you're a Delayed Roleblocker who can block only by the next phase. there is also no guarantee that you will be paired up with Phoenix, or have the sufficient BP (4) to transfer the effects over since you're currently at (2).
6. if your personal feelings are getting in the way, please calm down. I've had to hear you talking about me like I'm 'so smart' or 'acting like a god'. you're not one to talk about "petty behavior".
@Tom @LnG
if I am town, what does that make Shin? I know that I am town, that is why I'm sure Shin is scum. town cannot have 2 roleblockers, and Shin is too under-powered to be a neutral. if you want to argue that Dawn/Shin is town/neutral, then it's still fine to focus on us - you can figure out the neutral along with the setup. town is throwing away an important lead here if they won't lynch between Dawn/Shin.
Be grateful, always."
I mean Jenna, clearly tracked Phoenix there (we are in agreement that this is too complex to be a S/S gambit, which is the only situation where I think Jenna is scum). So we have a tracker and a role that visits the dead person/people every night? Seems borderline bastard to me. I mean Phoenix would have been the perfect scum to send to do the factional kill precisely because he's been vernally town read. I also don't like how many people have been acting like his claim means that we won't get alignment info, which is all I really care about. If he is telling the truth (which I doubt), it's not a big deal if we don't see that the next person we Lynch is the BP counter and knows how much BP target player has (totally made up).
Stuff in bold inside the quote is my reponse to her quotes
Notes:
1. Plz for the love of god remove yourselves from this MAL circle, you, me, and shin are not the only people in this game. You both are playing like nincompoops... lol
2. Phraze, remember that bad tunnel on logic, again I have to bring it up b/c the way ur acting reminds me of your only scum game ive ever seen, and ur not making it easier for me to trust you over shin. Honestly at this point I dont trust either of you...
3. Town cant have two roleblockers, but again one is a delayed roleblocker/bp giver, and one is a roleblocker/vigi, so this isnt as simple as saying, "There cant be two town roleblockes," and dont tell me you dont see that.
4. If your conclusion is that you and shin are town/neutral, then plz get back to scum hunting, and I wont follow ur vote onto shin...
5. What lead???? IF THIS WAS SIMPLY TWO ROLEBLOCKERS THEN SHIN WOULD BE THE LYNCH BUT ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE, YOUR LEADING TOWN INTO A POSSIBLE MISLYNCH WITH THIS KIND OF TALK...
I'm the kind of guy that likes to stick to my guns, so to speak.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yeah, I saw that. It still seemed somewhat excessive.
'k I will pow wow with you.
We are in agreement that Jenna only really looks like she could be scum in an elaborate s/s gambit with Phoenix which I do not believe. I'm accepting her track result on Phoenix.
And I'm in agreement that this role claim is borderline bastard in a game with a Tracker role.
Whether or not some people seem to be acting like his claim means we wouldn't get alignment flips on death is neither here nor there. Nor is the issue of how big a "loss" it would be to the Town if he's telling the truth.
My issue is: how lucky/brilliant is Phoenix here?
When Jenna claims she "watched" DV, scum-phoenix knows she saw him, yes? He's caught. So now, what does he do? Now, his role is already "Carlos" yes? We don't think he's lying about that because, why would he? And "Carlos" is apparently some kind of Doctor/medical person? So, scum-phoenix could try to fashion some kind of false-claim around this, I suppose, except, he obviously can't claim Doctor. So he comes up this false-claim about always going to the scene, which is conveniently very in line with his character. Okay, maybe that's possible.
But then, and here's kind of the point, he doesn't claim it. He maintains he didn't go to DV and Jenna is lying and votes her.
Wait, what? How does that jibe with him false-claiming? Isn't the entire point of false claiming trying to make your claim believable with the evidence? Why didn't he say he targeted DV?
Of course, later he says he did. And it's all a big "my bad, I didn't realize this was how it worked..." And that's just not how I see a scum false-claiming in this situation. It's too elaborate. Do you think he planned it all? Planned to lie, and bluff, and then reverse himself? And again, that only works because of how conveniently his role/character fits this ability. That's just some incredible planning and fortuitous coincidence working out for him there.
Idk who are refering to when you say everyone, but I know that Pheonixs death wont stop alignment info...
1. at first when Pheonix called Jenna, "I cant even visit people you liar," it didnt feel like town that thought he caught mafia, it felt more like mafia who thought that had an ez way of killing w/o being caught. In this case the simpliest answer was that, yes, he killed DV
2. then Phoenix caught himself, so either he knew he screwed up, or he honestly didnt read his role, and with the way he apologized to Jenna, it felt like the latter.
3. I mean if Phoenix lied, then its one hell of a lie, but I think his role may exist for a reason.
4. I'd also rather not spend the game speculating on the roles of all the deceased...
I disagree, for what it's worth. But I'm also townreading Phoenix anyways.
I mean, mechanically, I have no issue with this. In as much as it's supposed to be a role that, as long as it's alive gives us full role reveals.
I do not have a hard time imagining this. It is a bit bastardy.
This was one of my first thoughts when he made the claim (or rather, my thought was - is this consistent with what Bur has done before). And it's not. Which leads me to the question, shouldn't Phoenix have thought about that too? Would he make a false claim like this knowing that it's inconsistent with the way Bur has always done it before?
I mean, he might, but it's kind of sloppy of Phoenix to not check that, or very ballsy of him to check it and claim it anyway.
I never out myself without a plan, if I'm scum. if town, there's more chances to be outed since I'm not in control of the board. 2 games I was lynched as scum - 1st game to mess with the setup, 2nd game to kill town. you underestimate me
Be grateful, always."
5. there's no mislynch here based off stats. roleblockers aren't scummy for no reason. Shin never claimed D1, and tried to push me as a lynch, he goes into D2 with a counterclaim for more reasons to justify himself. why? if he claimed roleblocker right away and I was lynched, he would be on the table by now. I won't delay it any further, if town must lynch me to prove it then do so.
oh and another thingI wouldn't have been that angry with Logic if he didn't get so personal about his ******* issues. I planned to lead town towards lynching me, but it wasn't supposed to be that upsetting =.=
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
So, I take from this you are operating on the theory that scum-phoenix did not have his false-claim prepared at the time he initially denied that he targeted DV, and only came up with it on the fly after Jenna outted him?
I have a harder time believing that.
Losing role info is a big deal.
Imagine if we lynched a scum role blocker or something and didn't know that and lynch through neutraldawn and town shin?
What if one of the people pushing scumaz rn is the actual doc that doesn't want to out themselves and scum kills them once were no flip.
I put the order of likelihood for phoenix at lying scum>town>truthful scum.
Still not voting there.
I never believed Iso's counterclaim/retract anyways. accidents in regards to roles can come from either scum or town.
another thing that makes Phoenix's claim odd is how he voted Jenna right away, since town would normally question a tracker's results or even their alignment. the overly-defensive and omgus behavior doesn't look as town(?) as it may seem.
I'm fine with voting Phoenix, but I'd prefer Shin since he's apparently a roleblocker...
Be grateful, always."
here:on 2nd thought... yeah better not lynch. at least the AB game can fix it. (I wonder if scum abilities are AB-influenced)
Be grateful, always."
See, and here I'm in the realm of "yeah, it's feasible, but how much do I want to bet that farm on that?" And I'm coming back to myself with "not very much."
Be grateful, always."
-
So, I had another pet theory, and asked Bur if alignments were at all randomized with roles, and he told me he can't answer that question.
I'm not really happy with that answer.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
Phoenix
Does ur ability cost anything? Does it have any limitations? I find it wierd that you failed to mention ur bp costs or if u have thresholds... and I doubt that you have none... cause that wouldn't correlate with anything we've learned so far. and if you die from betrays, someone else gets ur ability? lmao you would never let urself die from betray... that doesnt make any sense, unless u wanted to kill urself to clear everyones PoE...
But lynching likely scum is still p good and I'm not that against it.
Be grateful, always."
dunno: Kaba/Cyth/Killjoy/Azrael/Iso
Osie/Shin could easily be scum theatre.. especially since it could be Osie's playstyle to socialize.
reads probably back to zero'ish.
Be grateful, always."