I just can't see how we don't lynch phoenix at this point.
Throw away all of the townie elements throughout the entire game, and potentially throw away flips for the rest of the game? While coroner does not suggest immunity, this just seems like a bad idea.
it's just roles, not alignment, at least that's how I read his claim.
Hmm... okay. That's worse than I thought. I thought he was the reason for flips. I still seriously felt he was one of the towniest players in the game coming out of day 1, though.
Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
So basically, you want to use Jenna as a cop test on Az's claim and inherently, his alignment, by lynching someone else, in this case Phoenix, having Az doctor someone pre-chosen, say, for example, Dawning, and having Jenna track Az? That's... quite legit, actually.
[@Osie #5164]
3. many players have commented that I have a confusing playstyle, that's why I mention it, not as a defense but for clarification. if nobody can describe your playstyle, that's your problem.
4. if you can develop a theory around it, that means it's not strictly impossible - because of the existence of 'probability'. scum can choose to leave me alive with the vigshot just as easily~
5. I had my doubts with Axel because of his worry about roleblocks on NKs. as for my doubts on Last, I've said why. uhhh.. weren't you asking why?
3. I mean, I've also only played in nine games online counting this one. I guess this is that self-meta you wanted...
In Avalon, with Terry and D_V, and modded by Iso, a no lynch, no kill mini, I was vanilla town. I was scumread most of the time. I played the game straight off the cuff. I was excruciatingly flaily at the beginning, but I got into the speed of things later on. I looked for clues and used a few methods of analysis.
In Revolution, with Tom, Azrael, D_V, Killjoy, Iso, and Grapefruit, a mini, I was vanilla town. I was scumread for most of the time until I was the N2 nightkill. I played the game straight off the cuff. I wasn't one of the best players by a longshot, but I learned quite a bit. I also seriously developed how I read games. But I was overly defensive and pushed for lynches on at least a couple of town players.
In Horsemen, with Tom, and D_V, and modded by Iso, a specialty, I was a Town Rolestopper/Delayed Roleblocker. I was scumread for most of the time until I was a D2 modkill. I played the game straight off the cuff. I was rather unhappy with life, the universe, and everything at the time inside and outside of the game, and played very badly, albeit with a few good moments. I should have replaced out. After the disaster which was this game, I decided before even seeing my alignment in the next game that from then on, I'd worry more about enjoying the game than I would about being scumread.
In Two Takes It, with Tom, and modded by Megiddo, a no-lynch micro, I was vanilla scum. I was townread for most of the time until I won the game with my scumbuddy. Outside of the endgame and night phases, I played the game by starting with the assumption that I was town and played pretty much straight off the cuff given that. In the end, I managed to manipulate people, especially towards the end of the game, to a series of mislynches for game.
In Maelstrom, with Megiddo, D_V, and BluesEclipse, I replaced in early D2 as vanilla town. I was scumread until I was mislynched D2. The person I replaced looked somewhat scummy. I played the game straight off the cuff. I found myself having to defend myself against a push from Megiddo, and reacted less than perfectly, though I did legitimately believe that Megiddo was scum that game.
In Russian Roulette, with D_V, Megiddo, Iso, and Terry, and modded by Tom, a nightless no-lynch micro, I was vanilla town. I was the first player shot, I was shot after 6 posts, and the player who shot me was town. To the degree it was relevant, I played the game straight off the cuff.
In OTG III, with BluesEclipse, Grapefruit, and Tom, I replaced in early D2 as vanilla town. I was playing with a self-imposed gimmick in which each post had to be written in verse, which I chose to do prior to looking at the game, but otherwise I was playing straight off the cuff. I was scumread some, in part for the gimmick, and nightkilled N2.
Dark & Stormy is an ongoing mini. It included Jenna, Megiddo, Killjoy, and Grapefruit. I was mislynched D1 as vanilla town. I'm not going to talk about it further than this mention.
In Zero Escape, with everyone here, I am a town Neighbourizer. I've played this game straight off the cuff, though I've spent a lot more time analyzing people than in other games, and used a larger variety of methods of analysis, mostly due to the nature of the game. I've been mostly townread throughout this game, with a few exceptions here and there.
I like how for the most part, the people suggesting D2 that I'm lynchable have mostly been people who have never played with me before. That factor makes me look a little more suspiciously at Tom and Killjoy, though.
[@Osie #5164]
3. many players have commented that I have a confusing playstyle, that's why I mention it, not as a defense but for clarification. if nobody can describe your playstyle, that's your problem.
4. if you can develop a theory around it, that means it's not strictly impossible - because of the existence of 'probability'. scum can choose to leave me alive with the vigshot just as easily~
5. I had my doubts with Axel because of his worry about roleblocks on NKs. as for my doubts on Last, I've said why. uhhh.. weren't you asking why?
3. I mean, I've also only played in nine games online counting this one. I guess this is that self-meta you wanted...
In Avalon, with Terry and D_V, and modded by Iso, a no lynch, no kill mini, I was vanilla town. I was scumread most of the time. I played the game straight off the cuff. I was excruciatingly flaily at the beginning, but I got into the speed of things later on. I looked for clues and used a few methods of analysis.
In Revolution, with Tom, Azrael, D_V, Killjoy, Iso, and Grapefruit, a mini, I was vanilla town. I was scumread for most of the time until I was the N2 nightkill. I played the game straight off the cuff. I wasn't one of the best players by a longshot, but I learned quite a bit. I also seriously developed how I read games. But I was overly defensive and pushed for lynches on at least a couple of town players.
In Horsemen, with Tom, and D_V, and modded by Iso, a specialty, I was a Town Rolestopper/Delayed Roleblocker. I was scumread for most of the time until I was a D2 modkill. I played the game straight off the cuff. I was rather unhappy with life, the universe, and everything at the time inside and outside of the game, and played very badly, albeit with a few good moments. I should have replaced out. After the disaster which was this game, I decided before even seeing my alignment in the next game that from then on, I'd worry more about enjoying the game than I would about being scumread.
In Two Takes It, with Tom, and modded by Megiddo, a no-lynch micro, I was vanilla scum. I was townread for most of the time until I won the game with my scumbuddy. Outside of the endgame and night phases, I played the game by starting with the assumption that I was town and played pretty much straight off the cuff given that. In the end, I managed to manipulate people, especially towards the end of the game, to a series of mislynches for game.
In Maelstrom, with Megiddo, D_V, and BluesEclipse, I replaced in early D2 as vanilla town. I was scumread until I was mislynched D2. The person I replaced looked somewhat scummy. I played the game straight off the cuff. I found myself having to defend myself against a push from Megiddo, and reacted less than perfectly, though I did legitimately believe that Megiddo was scum that game.
In Russian Roulette, with D_V, Megiddo, Iso, and Terry, and modded by Tom, a nightless no-lynch micro, I was vanilla town. I was the first player shot, I was shot after 6 posts, and the player who shot me was town. To the degree it was relevant, I played the game straight off the cuff.
In OTG III, with BluesEclipse, Grapefruit, and Tom, I replaced in early D2 as vanilla town. I was playing with a self-imposed gimmick in which each post had to be written in verse, which I chose to do prior to looking at the game, but otherwise I was playing straight off the cuff. I was scumread some, in part for the gimmick, and nightkilled N2.
Dark & Stormy is an ongoing mini. It included Jenna, Megiddo, Killjoy, and Grapefruit. I was mislynched D1 as vanilla town. I'm not going to talk about it further than this mention.
In Zero Escape, with everyone here, I am a town Neighbourizer. I've played this game straight off the cuff, though I've spent a lot more time analyzing people than in other games, and used a larger variety of methods of analysis, mostly due to the nature of the game. I've been mostly townread throughout this game, with a few exceptions here and there.
I like how for the most part, the people suggesting D2 that I'm lynchable have mostly been people who have never played with me before. That factor makes me look a little more suspiciously at Tom and Killjoy, though.
[@Osie #5164]
3. many players have commented that I have a confusing playstyle, that's why I mention it, not as a defense but for clarification. if nobody can describe your playstyle, that's your problem.
4. if you can develop a theory around it, that means it's not strictly impossible - because of the existence of 'probability'. scum can choose to leave me alive with the vigshot just as easily~
5. I had my doubts with Axel because of his worry about roleblocks on NKs. as for my doubts on Last, I've said why. uhhh.. weren't you asking why?
3. I mean, I've also only played in nine games online counting this one. I guess this is that self-meta you wanted...
In Avalon, with Terry and D_V, and modded by Iso, a no lynch, no kill mini, I was vanilla town. I was scumread most of the time. I played the game straight off the cuff. I was excruciatingly flaily at the beginning, but I got into the speed of things later on. I looked for clues and used a few methods of analysis.
In Revolution, with Tom, Azrael, D_V, Killjoy, Iso, and Grapefruit, a mini, I was vanilla town. I was scumread for most of the time until I was the N2 nightkill. I played the game straight off the cuff. I wasn't one of the best players by a longshot, but I learned quite a bit. I also seriously developed how I read games. But I was overly defensive and pushed for lynches on at least a couple of town players.
In Horsemen, with Tom, and D_V, and modded by Iso, a specialty, I was a Town Rolestopper/Delayed Roleblocker. I was scumread for most of the time until I was a D2 modkill. I played the game straight off the cuff. I was rather unhappy with life, the universe, and everything at the time inside and outside of the game, and played very badly, albeit with a few good moments. I should have replaced out. After the disaster which was this game, I decided before even seeing my alignment in the next game that from then on, I'd worry more about enjoying the game than I would about being scumread.
In Two Takes It, with Tom, and modded by Megiddo, a no-lynch micro, I was vanilla scum. I was townread for most of the time until I won the game with my scumbuddy. Outside of the endgame and night phases, I played the game by starting with the assumption that I was town and played pretty much straight off the cuff given that. In the end, I managed to manipulate people, especially towards the end of the game, to a series of mislynches for game.
In Maelstrom, with Megiddo, D_V, and BluesEclipse, I replaced in early D2 as vanilla town. I was scumread until I was mislynched D2. The person I replaced looked somewhat scummy. I played the game straight off the cuff. I found myself having to defend myself against a push from Megiddo, and reacted less than perfectly, though I did legitimately believe that Megiddo was scum that game.
In Russian Roulette, with D_V, Megiddo, Iso, and Terry, and modded by Tom, a nightless no-lynch micro, I was vanilla town. I was the first player shot, I was shot after 6 posts, and the player who shot me was town. To the degree it was relevant, I played the game straight off the cuff.
In OTG III, with BluesEclipse, Grapefruit, and Tom, I replaced in early D2 as vanilla town. I was playing with a self-imposed gimmick in which each post had to be written in verse, which I chose to do prior to looking at the game, but otherwise I was playing straight off the cuff. I was scumread some, in part for the gimmick, and nightkilled N2.
Dark & Stormy is an ongoing mini. It included Jenna, Megiddo, Killjoy, and Grapefruit. I was mislynched D1 as vanilla town. I'm not going to talk about it further than this mention.
In Zero Escape, with everyone here, I am a town Neighbourizer. I've played this game straight off the cuff, though I've spent a lot more time analyzing people than in other games, and used a larger variety of methods of analysis, mostly due to the nature of the game. I've been mostly townread throughout this game, with a few exceptions here and there.
I like how for the most part, the people suggesting D2 that I'm lynchable have mostly been people who have never played with me before. That factor makes me look a little more suspiciously at Tom and Killjoy, though.
Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
why not Shin? you want Azrael to protect me, which means I'm more likely a townread. Shin's claim is a direct counter to my role, and he claimed it after a mislynch. I think with 2 possible roleblockers, sorting us is better.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
[@Osie #5164]
3. many players have commented that I have a confusing playstyle, that's why I mention it, not as a defense but for clarification. if nobody can describe your playstyle, that's your problem.
4. if you can develop a theory around it, that means it's not strictly impossible - because of the existence of 'probability'. scum can choose to leave me alive with the vigshot just as easily~
5. I had my doubts with Axel because of his worry about roleblocks on NKs. as for my doubts on Last, I've said why. uhhh.. weren't you asking why?
3. I mean, I've also only played in nine games online counting this one. I guess this is that self-meta you wanted...
In Avalon, with Terry and D_V, and modded by Iso, a no lynch, no kill mini, I was vanilla town. I was scumread most of the time. I played the game straight off the cuff. I was excruciatingly flaily at the beginning, but I got into the speed of things later on. I looked for clues and used a few methods of analysis.
In Revolution, with Tom, Azrael, D_V, Killjoy, Iso, and Grapefruit, a mini, I was vanilla town. I was scumread for most of the time until I was the N2 nightkill. I played the game straight off the cuff. I wasn't one of the best players by a longshot, but I learned quite a bit. I also seriously developed how I read games. But I was overly defensive and pushed for lynches on at least a couple of town players.
In Horsemen, with Tom, and D_V, and modded by Iso, a specialty, I was a Town Rolestopper/Delayed Roleblocker. I was scumread for most of the time until I was a D2 modkill. I played the game straight off the cuff. I was rather unhappy with life, the universe, and everything at the time inside and outside of the game, and played very badly, albeit with a few good moments. I should have replaced out. After the disaster which was this game, I decided before even seeing my alignment in the next game that from then on, I'd worry more about enjoying the game than I would about being scumread.
In Two Takes It, with Tom, and modded by Megiddo, a no-lynch micro, I was vanilla scum. I was townread for most of the time until I won the game with my scumbuddy. Outside of the endgame and night phases, I played the game by starting with the assumption that I was town and played pretty much straight off the cuff given that. In the end, I managed to manipulate people, especially towards the end of the game, to a series of mislynches for game.
In Maelstrom, with Megiddo, D_V, and BluesEclipse, I replaced in early D2 as vanilla town. I was scumread until I was mislynched D2. The person I replaced looked somewhat scummy. I played the game straight off the cuff. I found myself having to defend myself against a push from Megiddo, and reacted less than perfectly, though I did legitimately believe that Megiddo was scum that game.
In Russian Roulette, with D_V, Megiddo, Iso, and Terry, and modded by Tom, a nightless no-lynch micro, I was vanilla town. I was the first player shot, I was shot after 6 posts, and the player who shot me was town. To the degree it was relevant, I played the game straight off the cuff.
In OTG III, with BluesEclipse, Grapefruit, and Tom, I replaced in early D2 as vanilla town. I was playing with a self-imposed gimmick in which each post had to be written in verse, which I chose to do prior to looking at the game, but otherwise I was playing straight off the cuff. I was scumread some, in part for the gimmick, and nightkilled N2.
Dark & Stormy is an ongoing mini. It included Jenna, Megiddo, Killjoy, and Grapefruit. I was mislynched D1 as vanilla town. I'm not going to talk about it further than this mention.
In Zero Escape, with everyone here, I am a town Neighbourizer. I've played this game straight off the cuff, though I've spent a lot more time analyzing people than in other games, and used a larger variety of methods of analysis, mostly due to the nature of the game. I've been mostly townread throughout this game, with a few exceptions here and there.
I like how for the most part, the people suggesting D2 that I'm lynchable have mostly been people who have never played with me before. That factor makes me look a little more suspiciously at Tom and Killjoy, though.
self meta has a defense? Lmao...
Unlike you, I haven't been scumread by about 90% of players over the course of the game. I don't need to defend myself, and it's not really a defense. It's just an elaboration. Heck, it's not even clear how useful an elaboration it is; if you or Dawn wanted to look at my meta or ask people who were familiar with my meta about me, you could have done it any time this past few weeks. I may spend a lot of time on some of my posts, probably more than I should in a lot of cases. But at least I can actually say that I'm putting thought and effort into the vast majority of my posts. I hate to say this, but it's not even clear that you can say the same.
Shin is the play for today, but if I get picked off: I defy challenge here to show me three posts where Iso looks like he is actually thinking his way towards who the scum are. Not just saying who they are - thinking it through.
I think that #5170 more than answers your side of the discussion of question 3. I think I'm okay with your answer. (Oh hey, you said something similar to what I said to Last about the end of that discussion. Didn't notice that. Amusing.)
As for #5, your answer for the reasoning behind the slight back-off on your townread of Last is that "you had your doubts with the way he was scumreading Azrael?" What about his scumread on Azrael did you not like? Was there anything else that you didn't like? Why or why not? And, I reiterate: What about Last has been so OVERWHELMINGLY townie that he's been seemingly towncleared for you since like two or three pages into the game or something like that?
[@Osie #5164]
3. many players have commented that I have a confusing playstyle, that's why I mention it, not as a defense but for clarification. if nobody can describe your playstyle, that's your problem.
4. if you can develop a theory around it, that means it's not strictly impossible - because of the existence of 'probability'. scum can choose to leave me alive with the vigshot just as easily~
5. I had my doubts with Axel because of his worry about roleblocks on NKs. as for my doubts on Last, I've said why. uhhh.. weren't you asking why?
3. I mean, I've also only played in nine games online counting this one. I guess this is that self-meta you wanted...
In Avalon, with Terry and D_V, and modded by Iso, a no lynch, no kill mini, I was vanilla town. I was scumread most of the time. I played the game straight off the cuff. I was excruciatingly flaily at the beginning, but I got into the speed of things later on. I looked for clues and used a few methods of analysis.
In Revolution, with Tom, Azrael, D_V, Killjoy, Iso, and Grapefruit, a mini, I was vanilla town. I was scumread for most of the time until I was the N2 nightkill. I played the game straight off the cuff. I wasn't one of the best players by a longshot, but I learned quite a bit. I also seriously developed how I read games. But I was overly defensive and pushed for lynches on at least a couple of town players.
In Horsemen, with Tom, and D_V, and modded by Iso, a specialty, I was a Town Rolestopper/Delayed Roleblocker. I was scumread for most of the time until I was a D2 modkill. I played the game straight off the cuff. I was rather unhappy with life, the universe, and everything at the time inside and outside of the game, and played very badly, albeit with a few good moments. I should have replaced out. After the disaster which was this game, I decided before even seeing my alignment in the next game that from then on, I'd worry more about enjoying the game than I would about being scumread.
In Two Takes It, with Tom, and modded by Megiddo, a no-lynch micro, I was vanilla scum. I was townread for most of the time until I won the game with my scumbuddy. Outside of the endgame and night phases, I played the game by starting with the assumption that I was town and played pretty much straight off the cuff given that. In the end, I managed to manipulate people, especially towards the end of the game, to a series of mislynches for game.
In Maelstrom, with Megiddo, D_V, and BluesEclipse, I replaced in early D2 as vanilla town. I was scumread until I was mislynched D2. The person I replaced looked somewhat scummy. I played the game straight off the cuff. I found myself having to defend myself against a push from Megiddo, and reacted less than perfectly, though I did legitimately believe that Megiddo was scum that game.
In Russian Roulette, with D_V, Megiddo, Iso, and Terry, and modded by Tom, a nightless no-lynch micro, I was vanilla town. I was the first player shot, I was shot after 6 posts, and the player who shot me was town. To the degree it was relevant, I played the game straight off the cuff.
In OTG III, with BluesEclipse, Grapefruit, and Tom, I replaced in early D2 as vanilla town. I was playing with a self-imposed gimmick in which each post had to be written in verse, which I chose to do prior to looking at the game, but otherwise I was playing straight off the cuff. I was scumread some, in part for the gimmick, and nightkilled N2.
Dark & Stormy is an ongoing mini. It included Jenna, Megiddo, Killjoy, and Grapefruit. I was mislynched D1 as vanilla town. I'm not going to talk about it further than this mention.
In Zero Escape, with everyone here, I am a town Neighbourizer. I've played this game straight off the cuff, though I've spent a lot more time analyzing people than in other games, and used a larger variety of methods of analysis, mostly due to the nature of the game. I've been mostly townread throughout this game, with a few exceptions here and there.
I like how for the most part, the people suggesting D2 that I'm lynchable have mostly been people who have never played with me before. That factor makes me look a little more suspiciously at Tom and Killjoy, though.
self meta has a defense? Lmao...
Unlike you, I haven't been scumread by about 90% of players over the course of the game. I don't need to defend myself, and it's not really a defense. It's just an elaboration. Heck, it's not even clear how useful an elaboration it is; if you or Dawn wanted to look at my meta or ask people who were familiar with my meta about me, you could have done it any time this past few weeks. I may spend a lot of time on some of my posts, probably more than I should in a lot of cases. But at least I can actually say that I'm putting thought and effort into the vast majority of my posts. I hate to say this, but it's not even clear that you can say the same.
lmao, this post is straight shade, and I've made plenty of decent ******* posts... Don't give me that false anger... If u don't flip scum I'll be surprised... And don't tell me I'm not putting efforts in my posts
I think that #5170 more than answers your side of the discussion of question 3. I think I'm okay with your answer. (Oh hey, you said something similar to what I said to Last about the end of that discussion. Didn't notice that. Amusing.)
As for #5, your answer for the reasoning behind the slight back-off on your townread of Last is that "you had your doubts with the way he was scumreading Azrael?" What about his scumread on Azrael did you not like? Was there anything else that you didn't like? Why or why not? And, I reiterate: What about Last has been so OVERWHELMINGLY townie that he's been seemingly towncleared for you since like two or three pages into the game or something like that?
why do u keep asking for the opinion of the masses?? Just because 90% of the people think I am scum, doesn't mean I am scum...
lmao, this post is straight shade, and I've made plenty of decent ******* posts... Don't give me that false anger... If u don't flip scum I'll be surprised... And don't tell me I'm not putting efforts in my posts
"Anger" is what you want to suggest? You ain't seen nothing.
I'm as calm as this graph:
You're certainly putting in effort to tell people that they're focusing on you too much. And to OMGUS people voting you. And to tell people you previously have played with that they are all town. And to fearmonger some here and there.
Not clear that you're actually putting in effort to finding scum. Still rereading a bunch of your posts, but haven't found much on my second reread out of three planned for tonight.
why do u keep asking for the opinion of the masses?? Just because 90% of the people think I am scum, doesn't mean I am scum...
I'm asking the people who don't think that you are scum why they don't think that you are scum. I've done the same in other circumstances. If someone disagrees with me, there's no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to ask them why.
LOLOL werent u already voting him? unless i missed ur vote change...
Osie
I didnt need to tell Dawn I was town, she already sees that, maybe shes pocketing me? but I am not worried about that currently, and our reads are vastly different, so shes doing a bad job of manipulating me
Shin just does w/e he wants, and he isnt afraid to scum read me, so i dont see whats ur point there
where have I fearmongered? I just like to look at everything...
and if you think i'm not calm then you are sadly mistaken
and again if what you said is true, and 12 people have suspected me at one point, then why am I still here? thats an ample amount of people to lynch me? or do you think my 2/3 non existent scum buddies can save from this lynch, or why they would even try lmao...
I think that #5170 more than answers your side of the discussion of question 3. I think I'm okay with your answer. (Oh hey, you said something similar to what I said to Last about the end of that discussion. Didn't notice that. Amusing.)
As for #5, your answer for the reasoning behind the slight back-off on your townread of Last is that "you had your doubts with the way he was scumreading Azrael?" What about his scumread on Azrael did you not like? Was there anything else that you didn't like? Why or why not? And, I reiterate: What about Last has been so OVERWHELMINGLY townie that he's been seemingly towncleared for you since like two or three pages into the game or something like that?
I explained a few times about why Last is town. he's a rather easy person to read, and not good at lying. I'm not the only one who townreads him btw, you can question Axel or Tom. the only one who thinks it's hard, or makes it look hard, is you. that is an admirable feat, but too flattering to be true.
don't pull up posts if you're going to argue over it in terms of semantics or clarifications. I've had enough to deal with Shinichi ~.~
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I explained a few times about why Last is town. he's a rather easy person to read, and not good at lying. I'm not the only one who townreads him btw, you can question Axel or Tom. the only one who thinks it's hard, or makes it look hard, is you. that is an admirable feat, but too flattering to be true.
Honestly, at this point I don't even think he's hard to read. I just think he's scum. But outside of the below two cases, he's less worth pursuing than Azrael. That said, based on either:
1. Terry's idea to test Azrael's claim
or
2. Momentum
don't pull up posts if you're going to argue over it in terms of semantics or clarifications. I've had enough to deal with Shinichi ~.~
Now, this post is actually annoying. If I'm reading this correctly, you're:
A. Misrepresenting me as focusing on semantics.
B. Telling me to not ask for people to explain the motives or content of their posts so that I understand them.
C. Telling me to not ask for people to explain contradictions.
D. Basically telling me not to scumhunt, or heck, to just stop playing the game. <- You want to talk hypocritical...
If I'm really making things so unpleasant for you that you want me to leave, I can replace out. Just say the word.
ya my vote is locked on Osie, if you want to tell me his behavior is of town, then fine, but im not changing my vote... and if you want to vote me, thats also fine...
Also, better getting tunneled on someone for whom even their supporters say they are scummy than lying about a vote on someone for over 200 posts.
/shrug cant help that I look scummy at times :P, and who has been lying? I think you've been town hunting this whole time, of course you wont agree w/ me...
im still on Az? I thought I switched to Osie vote: Osie
Probably whatever, but you made this mistake on pages 99 and 100 as well, while still on the Azrael wagon with... Iso and myself. Your vote for me was earlier.
Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
So basically, you want to use Jenna as a cop test on Az's claim and inherently, his alignment, by lynching someone else, in this case Phoenix, having Az doctor someone pre-chosen, say, for example, Dawning, and having Jenna track Az? That's... quite legit, actually.
Why not Last as the lynch then, though?
No, I want to lynch phoenix because there are a few holes in his claim and we have a tracker claim confirming he was at the murder scene. Az and jenna can do what they want, but I think they get sorted out tonight.
Shin is the play for today, but if I get picked off: I defy challenge here to show me three posts where Iso looks like he is actually thinking his way towards who the scum are. Not just saying who they are - thinking it through.
Are you really saying shin is the correct play over the tracked guilty?
im still on Az? I thought I switched to Osie vote: Osie
Probably whatever, but you made this mistake on pages 99 and 100 as well, while still on the Azrael wagon with... Iso and myself. Your vote for me was earlier.
Not voting (4): Cythare, Phoenix-Fire, Axelrod, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some questions for you are coming up.
I dont recall a vote count in a while, and as I am still not fully used to, two week day phases, its not weird for me to lose track of where my vote is, also I couldve have easily back tracked to make sure, but I was at work and I wanted to make sure my vote was on you... and question away, but my vote is locked on you unless something significant comes up that makes me reconsider
Are you really saying shin is the correct play over the tracked guilty?
Being tagged by a watcher would be a lot more damning than being tagged by a tracker, with a plausible explanation and a squeaky clean behavioral record. I'm not terribly ecstatic about the role explanation and the possible mod retcon, but I think there are far superior targets from a behavioral standpoint.
No, I want to lynch phoenix because there are a few holes in his claim and we have a tracker claim confirming he was at the murder scene. Az and jenna can do what they want, but I think they get sorted out tonight.
I just ISO'd you and Phoenix for D2, starting at Jenna's big reveal. I'm not particularly convinced. Certainly not enough to lynch a player that by all other measures has been very townie.
Are you really saying shin is the correct play over the tracked guilty?
Being tagged by a watcher would be a lot more damning than being tagged by a tracker, with a plausible explanation and a squeaky clean behavioral record. I'm not terribly ecstatic about the role explanation and the possible mod retcon, but I think there are far superior targets from a behavioral standpoint.
Uh oh, I'm in agreement with Az on something... Hahaha.
Az, while you're here:
Why claim at L-3? Why not wait?
Is your current scumteam still Iso, Shin, Jenna, Tom?
Why don't you think Jenna's call-out on Phoenix and avoidance of the so-called trap is clearing for her?
Why do you think people are likely to trust you enough toDay to vote for anyone on your team on your word?
@Killjoy, considering that Terry had the same thought process as Tom and I, why didn't you bring him up as possible scum?
We should probably consolidate some votes. Here's my current view of the players.
Osie - Townie. Not getting my vote.
LW - Fine with voting LW. He's had some townie posts, but nothing that locks him as town.
Tom - I like Tom. Not voting him.
Killjoy - Obviously I'm ok with voting KJ. He's been off and on and I don't see where he's coming from this game.
Shin - I like him less than yesterday... I don't know if the incessant harping on LW/DBS is helping town, but I won't be able to tell what it is until we get their flips. Still not enough to vote him.
Az - I am not a huge fan, but not going to vote the doctor.
Jenna - Not voting Jenna until we figure out Phoenix.
Phoenix - I'm scared of losing flip info, and he claimed in a townie way... I don't know. I probably don't have time to read his ISO before the lynch.
Iso - Not a huge fan of Iso either... he's floated most of today, and hasn't really done a lot other than say, "Az scum". Kinda hoping Az gets killed tonight so we can work off his flip. Willing to give him a day, but wouldn't be 100% opposed.
DBS - Gut says DBS is neutral... which is the main reason I'm not screaming for his head this moment. Could vote him, but not my favorite lynch today.
Kaba - Town read. Not gonna vote.
Meg/Cythare - ... lurker scum? Cythare hasn't done a ton and maybe we should eliminate this slot now, as no way scum targets this with an NK. One thing leading me to not voting it is it would force yet another claim. Might be worth it to let this slot sit for a day in hopes it has some sort of useful role. Not a lot of info from this lynch either. Maybe?
RSJT - Feels townie, a little paranoid which is good for him. Not gonna vote.
Axelrod - Townie. Definitely not voting.
Ok, so people I don't mind voting: KJ, LW.
People that I could vote for, I guess: Iso, DBS, Cythare
#2 - "Killjoy and Osie's posts about their chat feel so fake, it hurts to read…"
#5 - "@Osie: Aren't you being hypocritical towards Dawn with your comment on Az's townflip? I'm still fine with voting you. @Jenna: Join me in voting Osie!"
#6 - "@Osie: I don't get why you'd answer Phoenix's question to everybody."
#7 - "@Osie: You trying to understand what Dawn was thinking in an earlier post is AtE."
#8 - /barn on @Jenna's suggestion that Killjoy and I lied about the A/B game.
#9 - "I just can't believe Osie, is suggesting lynching a claim Doctor, because he looks scummy in his eyes…"
#5053 - "Okay, these are different posts, but I think they're similar enough that they are hypocritical."
#5058 - Re: My response to #5053: Your interpretation of what I was saying in that post.
#5107 - Re: Dawning townreading a post of mine: "You mean Osie's scum?"
#5121 - Re: My misinterpretation of Tom's post: "/barn"
#5125 - Re: My explanation of why I didn't like what I'd read: "so a meta read? did he at least roll scum in that game? Im assuming yes?"
#5136 - Re: My concern about Dawning suggesting she'd get a chance to shoot: "I won't let her shoot."
#5137 - Elaboration of previous post, talking about a different point. (Did you actually understand my post?)
#5144 - Re: Me pointing out to Dawning the number of people scumreading Last D2: "I'm a mislynch! You shouldn't be focused on me!"
#5150 - Re: Me not trusting you: "I don't trust you either. You're scum trying to use me for CFDs. Vote for me! Haven't I done anything D2 worthwhile?"
#5151 - "Wait, you're scum. 100% scum because of #5146."
#5161 - Re: Me asking Terry about his scumread on Phoenix: "This makes me want to lynch Phoenix, but I'm keeping my vote on you."
#5163 - Re: Dawning pointing out that you've been lying about your vote for over 220 posts: A vote for me.
#5172 - Re: Me talking to Dawning about playstyles: "Self-meta has (sic) a defense? Lmao…"
#5177 - Re: Me calling you out for hypocritical interjection and pointing out a lack of townie posting: "You're just shading me as OMGUS! I'm town! You're scum! I'm putting effort into my posts!"
#5178 - Re: Me continuing my discussion with Dawning: "How dare you ignore me and try to scumhunt!"
Out of those, I'll address those posts that (quite generously on my part, I think) might actually amount to some sort of case on me:
#3932 - "I would really like to know his scum leans and not just a list of all neutrals and me being scum"
I'd already posted several readlists and details on scumleans other than you. Heck, at this point I'd even recently posted a readlist in which you were not even in the bottom four players, let alone being a scumspect.
#4178 - "Osie's quick post when on V/LA doesn't go into enough detail as to why he is voting me, and therefore the vote must not have any townie reason."
Are you for real here? How much work does someone need to do to vote you for what you'll allow to be a fair reason? Do we need to each write, for each post you've made this game, a 100-page grant proposal to the Federal Mafia Foundation, party of one, which is just you, asking for the funds to be able to pay the toll to vote for you? Do we need to each do an ISO, Interaction analysis, Vote-pattern analysis, Derpclear analysis, Numerical-based tone analysis, etc…
Yes. It was one of the first things I said D2, and I hadn't made many posts in D2 at this point. You could easily have checked if you cared to do so.
FOR REFERENCE: VOTE ON AZRAEL WAS #4701.
I get that it's a long game. But you seriously forgot where your vote was placed for FOUR DAYS, and posted FIVE TIMES in the meanwhile, saying your vote was placed differently than it actually was? Given the circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised if when you go into scumchat tonight with Az and whoever your other buddies are, you regret not getting away with a gambit of pushing me by saying you're voting for me when you're actually not.
EDIT WHILE WRITING: Just saw #5192. While Bur did post two votecounts between #4701 and #5161, I don't feel good pressing this issue anyways. So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.
#4807 - Re: Shinichi saying that Jenna/Az/Phoenix/DBS/Wisp seem to have the scummiest roles: "What about Osie and Grr?"
You are just choosing to ignore or just aren't reading most of my posts. I already posted explaining why my role makes significantly less sense for scum. Heck, more recently I even explicitly quoted it in answer to one of YOUR POSTS. When I ask a question, no matter how stupid a question it seems to be, I care about what the answer or lack of answer is. I guess you don't care, and are hoping to just coast through the game on "Don't focus on me" over and over again.
#4933 - Re: Me mentioning one way I see to read the game: "Incredulous reiteration."
I'm actually not sure what you're referring to by "by saying the AtE is town motivated." As for you and Dawn, you've both done a lot which is anti-town, and you've even both admitted it at this point. I'm most inclined to believe that your interactions are W/V Last/Dawn, but I don't feel that Dawn has gotten to the point where I can comfortably townread her yet, primarily after her numerous spectacles throughout D1. I'm willing to put Dawn in null. You're another story.
#4986 - Questions about claim, neighbour chat, and reads.
AND…
#4988 - Question about why I did the neighbour chat with the implication that you didn't actually understand how my role works.
I had enough respect for you to respond, continuing the discussion on these. You seem to have ignored my answer, and the questions within.
#5024 - "thank you axel. For grabbing those posts"
This might as well just be a /barn on Axel's point.
#2 - "Killjoy and Osie's posts about their chat feel so fake, it hurts to read…"
Why?
#5 - "@Osie: Aren't you being hypocritical towards Dawn with your comment on Az's townflip? I'm still fine with voting you. @Jenna: Join me in voting Osie!"
I already explained this, though after I explained how you misinterpreted the answer, you dropped the conversation like a hot scumslip, I mean, rock. You even included an attempt to create wine between you and Jenna.
#6 - "@Osie: I don't get why you'd answer Phoenix's question to everybody."
This sort of question suggests that you're not actually understanding people's posts. In this case, Phoenix's post. Unless you're just asking for elaboration on my reads, in which case, okay. Az is scummy as all get out. Iso has his scummy moments, but is mostly town. That said, Iso could be scum, and the chance of scum!Iso goes up if Az is town, and goes down if Az is scum. But since Az is significantly less likely to be town anyways, the chance is significantly lower that Iso is scum, only a couple percentage points higher than the chance that Az is town.
#7 - "@Osie: You trying to understand what Dawn was thinking in an earlier post is AtE."
Come again? I don't understand why you think this. <- Take note: I'm willing to admit when I don't understand something. I want to understand what people are posting, since unlike you, I don't know their alignments from the start, and therefore am not going to just flail and defend myself.
#8 - /barn on @Jenna's suggestion that Killjoy and I lied about the A/B game.
Just a /barn. At least you sort-of inherently admitted a lack of original thought here. But this isn't really a case; it's pure WIFOM. I'm sure that Jenna realizes that on some level as well, regardless of her alignment.
#9 - "I just can't believe Osie, is suggesting lynching a claim Doctor, because he looks scummy in his eyes…"
A doctor claim is scum rice pudding. But okay, you get +1 WIFOM point here. Maybe you can save them up and get a bottle of… tequila was your drink of choice. (You can see that I'm actually reading your posts here…)
#5053 - "Okay, these are different posts, but I think they're similar enough that they are hypocritical."
I explained the distinction between the posts, as I mentioned above. "They both come off as the same thing" is garbage. To explain it again, my comment on Dawning was asking for clarification, because I thought what I saw, explicitly handwaving away the town possibility, was scummy. My comment on Az was that in the case of town!Az, I'd come back to the game with a fresh outlook; I'd reconsider things.
#5058 - Re: My response to #5053: Your interpretation of what I was saying in that post.
Again, I explained how this was wrong. It's somewhat hard for me to believe that this wasn't an intentional strawman on your part, but maybe you actually just don't understand my posts very well and are scumreading me either because or despite of it.
#5125 - Re: My explanation of why I didn't like what I'd read: "so a meta read? did he at least roll scum in that game? Im assuming yes?"
Not the worst comment, though for someone agreeing with me at that point, this is a surprising post. Also, what were you trying to do here? Catch me in some kind of slip?
#5144 - Re: Me pointing out to Dawning the number of people scumreading Last D2: "I'm a mislynch! You shouldn't be focused on me!"
AND…
#5150 - Re: Me not trusting you: "I don't trust you either. You're scum trying to use me for CFDs. Vote for me! Haven't I done anything D2 worthwhile?"
I was thinking about these posts… Almost considered just posting "@Last: Are you town or scum?" in every post I make from here on out, but I decided against it. Still considering doing the same for "Let's lynch Last," though.
#5151 - "Wait, you're scum. 100% scum because of #5146."
AND…
#5177 - Re: Me calling you out for hypocritical interjection and pointing out a lack of townie posting: "You're just shading me as OMGUS! I'm town! You're scum! I'm putting effort into my posts!"
Lastwhisper, Lord of OMGUS2BB
Legendary Creature - Human Scum (M)
Whenever any amount of pressure is put on you, choose one or more —
Tell the player(s) who put pressure on you that they shouldn't focus on you.
Vote for a player who put pressure on you.
Tell the player(s) who put pressure on you that they are scummy.
2/2
Do you have more to your case of me, or just this excuse for a case? This is so flimsy that it would be more useful to just point to a burning shrubbery and say "It told me that it was God and Osie is scum." Feel free to let me know specifically if I've misinterpreted things you've said. I won't run away from that.
More to come, but it's late, so I'm calling it a night for now.
DBS - Gut says DBS is neutral... which is the main reason I'm not screaming for his head this moment. Could vote him, but not my favorite lynch today.
I think we need to get this clear: Dawn/Shin are both roleblockers. I don't see how 2 roleblockers can exist out of scum hands, especially when we have a confirmed investigative/cop. we're either town/scum or neutral/scum - or we're facing a possible 3rd roleblocker which is kinda unbalanced. how can you see Shin as town, if you think I'm neutral? there's scum in one of Dawn/Shin. even if you mislynch one, there's a guarantee of hitting scum by taking out the other one by next phase. it's impossible for 2 roleblockers to end up town/neutral, just impossible... how do the scumteam even defend themselves against all these abilities??
I had 4 posts quoted and my trackpad decided that I was clicking on osi's signature and now my quoted posts are gone so I guess I don't get to respond to the last 4 pages.
Relatedly, tinfoil hat theory: osi/Killjoy/Phoenix/Az
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@DBS, your RB is VERY easily thrown off. Also, Shin's RB is VERY limited, as he can only do it with those he's paired with that he chooses to betray. His active ability is exceedingly expensive. Frankly, I don't see how you can think that Iso and you can both exist as killing roles, but not think that Shin and you can exist. You're acting like both of you are full-pledged RB's.
@DBS, your RB is VERY easily thrown off. Also, Shin's RB is VERY limited, as he can only do it with those he's paired with that he chooses to betray. His active ability is exceedingly expensive. Frankly, I don't see how you can think that Iso and you can both exist as killing roles, but not think that Shin and you can exist. You're acting like both of you are full-pledged RB's.
killing roles are dicey and tend to fall in the tpr category. roleblockers are more likely to be scum than not, especially since we have a confirmed cop. if we had to choose between sorting the killing roles or the rb/manip roles, we best go for the manip roles. if we focus on the wrong point, it'll be bad all the way.
then again, Iso isn't off my radar and I think he could be scum, but the majority don't seem to be going for him...which could lead to another CFD. my suspects are Iso/Shin/Phoenix/Osie or Killjoy. not sure about Kaba/Cyth.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Honestly, at this point I don't even think he's hard to read. I just think he's scum. But outside of the below two cases, he's less worth pursuing than Azrael.
If I'm really making things so unpleasant for you that you want me to leave, I can replace out. Just say the word.
1. what you think isn't necessarily the truth. are you looking for the truth or favoring your own views? the same can be said of Last/Shin~
2. I've had to deal with annoying posts that misrepresented me as "acting like a god with my claim", and never complained. I'm sure you can handle this much. for clarification, I'm saying you pull out posts that don't actually serve a purpose other than to question my wording. please look for real evidence or posts that help some of your theories click together. as for talk about replacing out, it looks like AtE to me. I've not hounded you yet or said you're irritating, so you shouldn't feel this hostile.
No, I want to lynch phoenix because there are a few holes in his claim and we have a tracker claim confirming he was at the murder scene. Az and jenna can do what they want, but I think they get sorted out tonight.
Are you really saying shin is the correct play over the tracked guilty?
even if the claim may have holes, don't forget tracker can easily be a fakeclaim. if we're going for something with an eyewitness, the counterclaim is a good start since we all saw it. according to Last, Shinichi doesn't believe there can ever be two of the same alignment, so it's outright strange that he didn't address my claim sooner...only after we ended up mislynching.
I had 4 posts quoted and my trackpad decided that I was clicking on osi's signature and now my quoted posts are gone so I guess I don't get to respond to the last 4 pages.
Relatedly, tinfoil hat theory: osi/Killjoy/Phoenix/Az
gotta admit I agree with most of this list. Shin or Dawn not being in it is the weird part. a game where the scumteam doesn't have a roleblocker, and town ends up having 2... lol
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
2. I've had to deal with annoying posts that misrepresented me as "acting like a god with my claim", and never complained. I'm sure you can handle this much. for clarification, I'm saying you pull out posts that don't actually serve a purpose other than to question my wording. please look for real evidence or posts that help some of your theories click together. as for talk about replacing out, it looks like AtE to me. I've not hounded you yet or said you're irritating, so you shouldn't feel this hostile.
Don't tell me not to scumhunt. I don't really care if you hound me over errors or even particularly much if you just think I'm annoying. But if you actively are going to tell me that I should not ask people what they mean by their posts, then you're just telling me that I shouldn't play.
@KJ Yes, Coroner is an uncommon role. Passive coroner is pretty much unheard of as far as I know. Furthermore, typically a coroner has to pick his target so he would only get one reveal a night. Phoenix's role gets all of them and the lynch as well, while the Coroner would typically have to use his Night Action to get a flip. Also because it's a passive, I don't think you can role block it (like you can't roleblock Bulletproof) though I could be mistaken.
So his role is a lot stronger than your typical Coroner, and apparently Bur has never used a No Reveal setup before. So there are a lot of assumptions to be made in order for Phoenix to be Town. What I mean by "how does it seem legit?" is that all there really is to support his claim is that he said it. There's no precedent for this role. There is however countless examples of scum being tracked to the night kill. That's why it's the simplest explanation.
At least you do seem to be thinking about this clearly. At first I thought you were just blindly defending him but I'm starting to see a real thought process behind it now.
No harm in me testing that theory if hes my partner. Idc about bursamas other games, i care about this game. Only reason I dislike the claim is because its way way to convienent.
@Jenna: Why did you go with this elaborate plan of pretending to be a watcher targeting D_V? Why not just say outright that you tracked Phoenix to D_V? This seems, well, overwrought.
Like, there wasn't even a gain from someone claiming that they visited D_V for something different. Phoenix looks marginally more suspect, but he's also been one of the towniest players this entire game. It's not significant enough after his claim.
Why does it matter, the way jenna did it feels like town regardless, the fact that some people overreacted says alot aobut their own alignments.
[@LnG #5115]
Ally while Betrayed until I reach 1 BP, stay at Betray while Betrayed.
even if that person is a scumread (e.g. Iso), I will stick to the plan. anyone who tries to increase my BP and justify it later is just hindering the town, especially when I fullclaimed - it's best for town to prove my claim as soon as possible, especially when there's no vig CC.
[@Killjoy #5116]
aha! was trying to think what's the inverse of a Janitor. I rolled Coroner before~ it was in that starship game where even the vig could be scum...nothing guarantees alignment. Phoenix being unaware of his role doesn't seem fake.
hmmmmm... since Phoenix is a passive 'coroner', he's probably the neutral. a passive that serves a use to the setup, yet doesn't require any BP, seems more fitting for neutral. I have BP requirements so idk how everyone thinks I could be neutral - this means I'm either scum or town, and Shin/Iso is the opposite. yes!
with this I can outrule a Phoenix/Killjoy scumteam possiblity. missing scum probably in Osie/Cyth/Kaba. Osie is really hard to figure out lol...so much socializing. Kaba's lurk vote on Last at EoD1 still noted.
You do realize asking me to help you without knowing your alignment is a load of bull. I already plan to betray certain people that I distrust and want to figre out. Phoenix being one of those people since i want to test out if his so called passive can be roleblocked.
Additional: Killjoy, did you read the link you posted?
"In some games, the roles of the dead players are only revealed if the coroner(s) remains alive. In this case, it can be Mafia aligned, creating a dilemma upon revelation."
Talking about the silence of the lambs mafia game lol
what is the correlation in "town in your role pm doesn't mean you're town". does that mean the role pm in the other game had town in all of them??
Dont see why this correlation is relevant seeing as how the hosts are different, and my talk about that mafia game had nothing to do with my role pm in this game. Was just an interaction with palyers from that game.
Doesnt matter if you prove your vigilante or not at this point when you literally could just be mafia making a night kill or a mafia with a double shot/delayed shot. As for this post now I will most def stop your shot, because now your doing what LNG did which is assuming that a specific action can only come from scum which is exactly why i dislike LNG slot.
No scum will most likely kill you when ur able to shoot, if they don't then its pretty obvious what your alignment is at this point. Mafia aren't dumb enough to allow a vig shot to go unchallenged.
Also I don't like when others point out rule breakings so plz dont be petty doing it to others.
I'm trying to lay out the groundwork for Last's playstyle, since he's having a hard time expressing himself properly.
While I get town wanting to defend a townread, I don't really get what you see as so certainly town about Last. Like, you've seemed to be pretty solidly convinced throughout the game, only recently backing off a bit.
trying to figure out if its noteworthy that she's backing off the townread just as im gaining one
current theory is still that shes a neutral and just wants to keep him around for the lulz essentially, but thats probably projecting what i would do. probably to someone like anak/huntz... in this game maybe you tbh
how? ive been back and forth a couple times if kj is protecting a buddy or TMIing that phoenix is town
Killjoy's thought process is pretty clear in his posts, especially the Osie cases. no hidden agenda. the only thing that looks bad is the defense on Phoenix. I actually find it weird how Kaba is capitalizing on that.
so are you thinking kaba/phoenix with townkj?
and fwiw, i think kj is methodical enough as either alignment that that doesnt mean much. and i kinda think it looks like hes deciding what his opinion is going to be before the reasoning starts. but, you know. Post Formatting Reads...
still strongly dislike his immediate reaction to Jenna.
~~~~~~~
aside: hard unalignment between dawning/osi
theres just no... theatricality?
their interactions at this point are pretty numerous and... none of them have accomplished anything really. high posters with their own thing going on.
probably not AI for either but as w/w it would be pointed somewhere
~~~~~~~~~~~
Relatedly, tinfoil hat theory: osi/Killjoy/Phoenix/Az
eh. better than your other team
why is that a tinfoil though?
besides maybe osi/kj together that seems almost consensus
~~~~~~~
responding like this is really hampering my flow
id be willing to lynch osi/kj/iso/cyth aorn.
not phoenix/az because claim
dawning/shin can easily be n/t. maybe t/t. never s/s. t/s is certainly possible but dont really want to go there today.
@DBS, your RB is VERY easily thrown off. Also, Shin's RB is VERY limited, as he can only do it with those he's paired with that he chooses to betray. His active ability is exceedingly expensive. Frankly, I don't see how you can think that Iso and you can both exist as killing roles, but not think that Shin and you can exist. You're acting like both of you are full-pledged RB's.
killing roles are dicey and tend to fall in the tpr category. roleblockers are more likely to be scum than not, especially since we have a confirmed cop. if we had to choose between sorting the killing roles or the rb/manip roles, we best go for the manip roles. if we focus on the wrong point, it'll be bad all the way.
then again, Iso isn't off my radar and I think he could be scum, but the majority don't seem to be going for him...which could lead to another CFD. my suspects are Iso/Shin/Phoenix/Osie or Killjoy. not sure about Kaba/Cyth.
Ive literally played with a SK that can roleblock and kill before so whats your point?
Logically speaking do you think I am dumb enough to withhold doing somethat that would obviously get me scum read the longer I wait or say things that directly contradict my way of thinking? The answer is NO, because I dont think ur scum based on your role i think your scum bevhaorily.
DBS - Gut says DBS is neutral... which is the main reason I'm not screaming for his head this moment. Could vote him, but not my favorite lynch today.
I think we need to get this clear: Dawn/Shin are both roleblockers. I don't see how 2 roleblockers can exist out of scum hands, especially when we have a confirmed investigative/cop. we're either town/scum or neutral/scum - or we're facing a possible 3rd roleblocker which is kinda unbalanced. how can you see Shin as town, if you think I'm neutral? there's scum in one of Dawn/Shin. even if you mislynch one, there's a guarantee of hitting scum by taking out the other one by next phase. it's impossible for 2 roleblockers to end up town/neutral, just impossible... how do the scumteam even defend themselves against all these abilities??
lynch me first. if town is gonna ignore the basic of sorting counterclaims first and continue hitting lynches at random.... I have no words.
Easy I cant control who my targets are, only you can and thats only as long as you saty at 3 bp. Which honestly seems very fair so idk what your on about if you looked at things mechanically you would see the balance in our roles.
Are you really saying shin is the correct play over the tracked guilty?
Being tagged by a watcher would be a lot more damning than being tagged by a tracker, with a plausible explanation and a squeaky clean behavioral record. I'm not terribly ecstatic about the role explanation and the possible mod retcon, but I think there are far superior targets from a behavioral standpoint.
Your welcome to explain your view on me then mr. scum
ya my vote is locked on Osie, if you want to tell me his behavior is of town, then fine, but im not changing my vote... and if you want to vote me, thats also fine...
Osie
You've been town hunting to be honest...
With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
I think that #5170 more than answers your side of the discussion of question 3. I think I'm okay with your answer. (Oh hey, you said something similar to what I said to Last about the end of that discussion. Didn't notice that. Amusing.)
As for #5, your answer for the reasoning behind the slight back-off on your townread of Last is that "you had your doubts with the way he was scumreading Azrael?" What about his scumread on Azrael did you not like? Was there anything else that you didn't like? Why or why not? And, I reiterate: What about Last has been so OVERWHELMINGLY townie that he's been seemingly towncleared for you since like two or three pages into the game or something like that?
I explained a few times about why Last is town. he's a rather easy person to read, and not good at lying. I'm not the only one who townreads him btw, you can question Axel or Tom. the only one who thinks it's hard, or makes it look hard, is you. that is an admirable feat, but too flattering to be true.
don't pull up posts if you're going to argue over it in terms of semantics or clarifications. I've had enough to deal with Shinichi ~.~
Its not that we are bad at lieing its the fact that we're decent human beings and dont like lieing even for a so called fictional game lol.
Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
why not Shin? you want Azrael to protect me, which means I'm more likely a townread. Shin's claim is a direct counter to my role, and he claimed it after a mislynch. I think with 2 possible roleblockers, sorting us is better.
They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
@DBS, your RB is VERY easily thrown off. Also, Shin's RB is VERY limited, as he can only do it with those he's paired with that he chooses to betray. His active ability is exceedingly expensive. Frankly, I don't see how you can think that Iso and you can both exist as killing roles, but not think that Shin and you can exist. You're acting like both of you are full-pledged RB's.
killing roles are dicey and tend to fall in the tpr category. roleblockers are more likely to be scum than not, especially since we have a confirmed cop. if we had to choose between sorting the killing roles or the rb/manip roles, we best go for the manip roles. if we focus on the wrong point, it'll be bad all the way.
then again, Iso isn't off my radar and I think he could be scum, but the majority don't seem to be going for him...which could lead to another CFD. my suspects are Iso/Shin/Phoenix/Osie or Killjoy. not sure about Kaba/Cyth.
Ive literally played with a SK that can roleblock and kill before so whats your point?
DBS - Gut says DBS is neutral... which is the main reason I'm not screaming for his head this moment. Could vote him, but not my favorite lynch today.
I think we need to get this clear: Dawn/Shin are both roleblockers. I don't see how 2 roleblockers can exist out of scum hands, especially when we have a confirmed investigative/cop. we're either town/scum or neutral/scum - or we're facing a possible 3rd roleblocker which is kinda unbalanced. how can you see Shin as town, if you think I'm neutral? there's scum in one of Dawn/Shin. even if you mislynch one, there's a guarantee of hitting scum by taking out the other one by next phase. it's impossible for 2 roleblockers to end up town/neutral, just impossible... how do the scumteam even defend themselves against all these abilities??
lynch me first. if town is gonna ignore the basic of sorting counterclaims first and continue hitting lynches at random.... I have no words.
Easy I cant control who my targets are, only you can and thats only as long as you saty at 3 bp. Which honestly seems very fair so idk what your on about if you looked at things mechanically you would see the balance in our roles.
Are you really saying shin is the correct play over the tracked guilty?
Being tagged by a watcher would be a lot more damning than being tagged by a tracker, with a plausible explanation and a squeaky clean behavioral record. I'm not terribly ecstatic about the role explanation and the possible mod retcon, but I think there are far superior targets from a behavioral standpoint.
Your welcome to explain your view on me then mr. scum
ya my vote is locked on Osie, if you want to tell me his behavior is of town, then fine, but im not changing my vote... and if you want to vote me, thats also fine...
Osie
You've been town hunting to be honest...
With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
I think that #5170 more than answers your side of the discussion of question 3. I think I'm okay with your answer. (Oh hey, you said something similar to what I said to Last about the end of that discussion. Didn't notice that. Amusing.)
As for #5, your answer for the reasoning behind the slight back-off on your townread of Last is that "you had your doubts with the way he was scumreading Azrael?" What about his scumread on Azrael did you not like? Was there anything else that you didn't like? Why or why not? And, I reiterate: What about Last has been so OVERWHELMINGLY townie that he's been seemingly towncleared for you since like two or three pages into the game or something like that?
I explained a few times about why Last is town. he's a rather easy person to read, and not good at lying. I'm not the only one who townreads him btw, you can question Axel or Tom. the only one who thinks it's hard, or makes it look hard, is you. that is an admirable feat, but too flattering to be true.
don't pull up posts if you're going to argue over it in terms of semantics or clarifications. I've had enough to deal with Shinichi ~.~
Its not that we are bad at lieing its the fact that we're decent human beings and dont like lieing even for a so called fictional game lol.
Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
why not Shin? you want Azrael to protect me, which means I'm more likely a townread. Shin's claim is a direct counter to my role, and he claimed it after a mislynch. I think with 2 possible roleblockers, sorting us is better.
They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
8
Osie
If I am the Omgus king, then you must be Omgus jester, because surely you jest, when you use the arguement "90% of the player base scum reads you, therefore you are scum."
Most of your case is just shading me anyways, and again, "90% of the player base scum reading me doesnt mean I am scum, just as my lack of a strong case, doesnt mean you are town, or that I am trying to force a case.
and in terms of flailing like a fish, you are most certainly doing that now, and I believe you are digging your own grave at this point... and lastly I think you are wrong, Ive been actively trying D2 to come back from my mess of a D1, so that whoever is town with me, wouldnt be stuck tunneling me again. and the length or substance of my posts shouldnt be indictive of my alignment... like seriously
Shinichi With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
What does my post have to do with defending Dawn?
Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
Well I mean if you keep wining urself like this, your bound to get manipulated, we will deal with it as time comes, but the more you talk about it, the more that mafia can manipulate the game. Yes I know that Doc claims are scummy as hell, and yes Azrael as been scummy, as well as towny at points, will I be voting him today? Hell no...
They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
Says who? your trying to lead town in a terrible direction, because as Grrr stated its still totally possible for you to both be town, with maybe one of you being being tpr... and if you flip scum, what then?
Shinichi With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
What does my post have to do with defending Dawn?
Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
Well I mean if you keep wining urself like this, your bound to get manipulated, we will deal with it as time comes, but the more you talk about it, the more that mafia can manipulate the game. Yes I know that Doc claims are scummy as hell, and yes Azrael as been scummy, as well as towny at points, will I be voting him today? Hell no...
They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
Says who? your trying to lead town in a terrible direction, because as Grrr stated its still totally possible for you to both be town, with maybe one of you being being tpr... and if you flip scum, what then?
I know its possible that 2 town roleblockers can exist, i literally just argued how our roles are different and completely balanced as town the fact that DBS doesnt see that is whats makng me think she is the scum roleblocker.
-Ive seen a mafia doctor before, but i think in that setup there was a town vigilante with a 1 shot so was so hard to sort of the doctor. Stating it or not I doubt mafia are going to be like "Lets keep the doc and vig alive because 1 PERSON IS GOING TO SCUM READ THEM FOR SAIDA CTION" You think too highly of my 1 opnion and 1 vote.
-That sort of logic makes me distrust your read on Osi.
Shinichi With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
What does my post have to do with defending Dawn?
Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
Well I mean if you keep wining urself like this, your bound to get manipulated, we will deal with it as time comes, but the more you talk about it, the more that mafia can manipulate the game. Yes I know that Doc claims are scummy as hell, and yes Azrael as been scummy, as well as towny at points, will I be voting him today? Hell no...
They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
Says who? your trying to lead town in a terrible direction, because as Grrr stated its still totally possible for you to both be town, with maybe one of you being being tpr... and if you flip scum, what then?
I know its possible that 2 town roleblockers can exist, i literally just argued how our roles are different and completely balanced as town the fact that DBS doesnt see that is whats makng me think she is the scum roleblocker.
-Ive seen a mafia doctor before, but i think in that setup there was a town vigilante with a 1 shot so was so hard to sort of the doctor. Stating it or not I doubt mafia are going to be like "Lets keep the doc and vig alive because 1 PERSON IS GOING TO SCUM READ THEM FOR SAIDA CTION" You think too highly of my 1 opnion and 1 vote.
-That sort of logic makes me distrust your read on Osi.
1. Then exactly why do you scum read her???
2. I was a mafia doctor once, I know it can exist, again ur still wining urself... stop bringing this up, its not something we should be thinking about as of right now..
3. Why?
@LnGrrr: I've been very lurky in part due to trying to catch up and in part due to not playing on weekends usually (which doesn't help with the catching up, as it turns out). I've mostly given up on reading through Day 1 today, but with Night falling over a holiday weekend, I'm planning to use that time to catch up and am going to just play toDay off of what's happened toDay, since that's the only real way to stay sane here despite being technically inferior to being fully caught up.
That said, re:reads, here you go. Turns out it's largely a regurgitation of LnGrrrR's list, but he's also one of my stronger town reads, so I'm ok with that.
Axelrod - He hasn't posted that much that I've really noticed toDay, but I have no feelings here and likely won't figure them out before the deadline.
Az - I haven't liked his approach today, but his claim is giving me pause. While Mafia doctors are a thing, we haven't seen a second kill so this doesn't need to be addressed toDay.
Dawn - I agree with you on the neutral thing. He was the first one to mention it that I recall, which usually points to being one. But this is a distraction for now.
Iso - His tunneling on Az today is poor and I don't remember anything else he's done. The degree of tunneling here is beyond what I'd expect of him.
JennaTolaria - Not voting here.
Kabazame - I don't really have a read here.
Killjoy - His approach on Phoenix is weird to me. It seemed to me like his response was a slip that he knew Phoenix's alignment, and his follow-up has felt a bit off to me.
LastWhisper - Happy to vote here - I pressed into Whisper earlier with my concern, and while I've been focused elsewhere to try to stay afloat, this read hasn't changed.
LnGrrrR - Not voting, strong town read.
Osieorb - Strong town read here as well - approach definitely coming from a town mindset.
Phoenix - I think he's felt fairly Town.
Terry - I don't really know much about Terry to formulate a read, and he's felt a bit all over the place, but low priority if any.
Shin - I'm mildly concerned that his focus is to drive mislynches, since he seems *really* focused, but I also don't think it's for toDay.
Tom - Not voting here.
My preference here is Killjoy or LastWhisper, but I'm open to an Iso lynch in theory. For everyone else, I either have a town read or don't have enough of a read on.
@tom: It's mostly tinfoil because I don't like admitting that I could have possibly been wrong, and I had pretty okay townreads on osi/Killjoy for a while.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think have been Phoenix's biggest fan this entire game, but even I am standing on that razor's edge right about now. I need to re-read that whole sequence again.
The convoluted scheme that would have to be involved for Jenna to be scum out of that seems quite low, regardless. They would almost have to be scum together, which, again, seems just too extreme of a gambit for me to believe.
The most interesting/relevant thing DBS has said in all the blur of posting is the idea that it seems wrong for Town to have two claimed RBing-type roles with scum having none. I would tend to agree with that. The issue, of course, is that (a) neither of the currently claimed RBing roles are unconditional RBers and (b) scum could still easily have something that has not been claimed. So I am loathe to make a dichotomy between DBS and Shin yet. As more people flip, however, and we see or do not see something like this in scum-aligned hands, it would make me more and more nervous.
But I also feel somewhat strongly that the fact Shin allied with LW last night when LW had said in no uncertain terms that he was going to Betray points strongly towards Town Shin. I think scum betray Town when (a) they know they are being betrayed themselves and/or (b) they have an easy excuse to do so. Scum Shin hurts himself and his team allying a Town LW. I do not see them as scum together.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hmm... okay. That's worse than I thought. I thought he was the reason for flips. I still seriously felt he was one of the towniest players in the game coming out of day 1, though.
So basically, you want to use Jenna as a cop test on Az's claim and inherently, his alignment, by lynching someone else, in this case Phoenix, having Az doctor someone pre-chosen, say, for example, Dawning, and having Jenna track Az? That's... quite legit, actually.
Why not Last as the lynch then, though?
3. I mean, I've also only played in nine games online counting this one. I guess this is that self-meta you wanted...
I like how for the most part, the people suggesting D2 that I'm lynchable have mostly been people who have never played with me before. That factor makes me look a little more suspiciously at Tom and Killjoy, though.
EBWODP:
5. Posts in this chain:
Be grateful, always."
Unlike you, I haven't been scumread by about 90% of players over the course of the game. I don't need to defend myself, and it's not really a defense. It's just an elaboration. Heck, it's not even clear how useful an elaboration it is; if you or Dawn wanted to look at my meta or ask people who were familiar with my meta about me, you could have done it any time this past few weeks. I may spend a lot of time on some of my posts, probably more than I should in a lot of cases. But at least I can actually say that I'm putting thought and effort into the vast majority of my posts. I hate to say this, but it's not even clear that you can say the same.
I think that #5170 more than answers your side of the discussion of question 3. I think I'm okay with your answer. (Oh hey, you said something similar to what I said to Last about the end of that discussion. Didn't notice that. Amusing.)
As for #5, your answer for the reasoning behind the slight back-off on your townread of Last is that "you had your doubts with the way he was scumreading Azrael?" What about his scumread on Azrael did you not like? Was there anything else that you didn't like? Why or why not? And, I reiterate: What about Last has been so OVERWHELMINGLY townie that he's been seemingly towncleared for you since like two or three pages into the game or something like that?
"Anger" is what you want to suggest? You ain't seen nothing.
I'm as calm as this graph:
You're certainly putting in effort to tell people that they're focusing on you too much. And to OMGUS people voting you. And to tell people you previously have played with that they are all town. And to fearmonger some here and there.
Not clear that you're actually putting in effort to finding scum. Still rereading a bunch of your posts, but haven't found much on my second reread out of three planned for tonight.
I'm asking the people who don't think that you are scum why they don't think that you are scum. I've done the same in other circumstances. If someone disagrees with me, there's no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to ask them why.
Osie
I didnt need to tell Dawn I was town, she already sees that, maybe shes pocketing me? but I am not worried about that currently, and our reads are vastly different, so shes doing a bad job of manipulating me
Shin just does w/e he wants, and he isnt afraid to scum read me, so i dont see whats ur point there
where have I fearmongered? I just like to look at everything...
and if you think i'm not calm then you are sadly mistaken
and again if what you said is true, and 12 people have suspected me at one point, then why am I still here? thats an ample amount of people to lynch me? or do you think my 2/3 non existent scum buddies can save from this lynch, or why they would even try lmao...
I explained a few times about why Last is town. he's a rather easy person to read, and not good at lying. I'm not the only one who townreads him btw, you can question Axel or Tom. the only one who thinks it's hard, or makes it look hard, is you. that is an admirable feat, but too flattering to be true.
don't pull up posts if you're going to argue over it in terms of semantics or clarifications. I've had enough to deal with Shinichi ~.~
Be grateful, always."
Honestly, at this point I don't even think he's hard to read. I just think he's scum.
1. Terry's idea to test Azrael's claim
or
2. Momentum
He'd be a good lynch in either case.
Now, this post is actually annoying. If I'm reading this correctly, you're:
A. Misrepresenting me as focusing on semantics.
B. Telling me to not ask for people to explain the motives or content of their posts so that I understand them.
C. Telling me to not ask for people to explain contradictions.
D. Basically telling me not to scumhunt, or heck, to just stop playing the game. <- You want to talk hypocritical...
If I'm really making things so unpleasant for you that you want me to leave, I can replace out. Just say the word.
Osie
You've been town hunting to be honest...
Lol wut? What are you even talking about?
Also, better getting tunneled on someone for whom even their supporters say they are scummy than lying about a vote on someone for over 200 posts.
/shrug cant help that I look scummy at times :P, and who has been lying? I think you've been town hunting this whole time, of course you wont agree w/ me...
Probably whatever, but you made this mistake on pages 99 and 100 as well, while still on the Azrael wagon with... Iso and myself. Your vote for me was earlier.
Killjoy (3): tomsloger, Jenna Tolaria, LnGrrrR
Azrael (2): Iso, osieorb18
Shinichi (2): dawningbluesky, Azrael
dawningbluesky (1): Shinichi
Lastwhisper (1): Kabazame
osieorb18 (1): Lastwhisper
Tomsloger (1): Killjoy
Not voting (4): Cythare, Phoenix-Fire, Axelrod, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some questions for you are coming up.
Missed Tom's vote on me.
Azrael (2): Iso, osieorb18
Killjoy (2): Jenna Tolaria, LnGrrrR
osieorb18 (2): Lastwhisper, tomsloger
Shinichi (2): dawningbluesky, Azrael
dawningbluesky (1): Shinichi
Lastwhisper (1): Kabazame
Tomsloger (1): Killjoy
Not voting (4): Cythare, Phoenix-Fire, Axelrod, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Being tagged by a watcher would be a lot more damning than being tagged by a tracker, with a plausible explanation and a squeaky clean behavioral record. I'm not terribly ecstatic about the role explanation and the possible mod retcon, but I think there are far superior targets from a behavioral standpoint.
I just ISO'd you and Phoenix for D2, starting at Jenna's big reveal. I'm not particularly convinced. Certainly not enough to lynch a player that by all other measures has been very townie.
Uh oh, I'm in agreement with Az on something... Hahaha.
Az, while you're here:
Why claim at L-3? Why not wait?
Is your current scumteam still Iso, Shin, Jenna, Tom?
Why don't you think Jenna's call-out on Phoenix and avoidance of the so-called trap is clearing for her?
Why do you think people are likely to trust you enough toDay to vote for anyone on your team on your word?
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse Premiumosieorb18 (2): Lastwhisper, tomsloger
Shinichi (2): dawningbluesky, Azrael
killjoy (2): Jenna Tolaria, LnGrrrR
Azrael (2): Iso, osieorb18
Lastwhisper (1): Kabazame
dawningbluesky (1): Shinichi
tomsloger (1): killjoy
Not voting (5): Cythare, Phoenix-Fire, Axelrod, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
With 15 alive, it’s 8 to lynch. Deadline is Thursday, November 23rd at 11.59 pm EST.
We should probably consolidate some votes. Here's my current view of the players.
Osie - Townie. Not getting my vote.
LW - Fine with voting LW. He's had some townie posts, but nothing that locks him as town.
Tom - I like Tom. Not voting him.
Killjoy - Obviously I'm ok with voting KJ. He's been off and on and I don't see where he's coming from this game.
Shin - I like him less than yesterday... I don't know if the incessant harping on LW/DBS is helping town, but I won't be able to tell what it is until we get their flips. Still not enough to vote him.
Az - I am not a huge fan, but not going to vote the doctor.
Jenna - Not voting Jenna until we figure out Phoenix.
Phoenix - I'm scared of losing flip info, and he claimed in a townie way... I don't know. I probably don't have time to read his ISO before the lynch.
Iso - Not a huge fan of Iso either... he's floated most of today, and hasn't really done a lot other than say, "Az scum". Kinda hoping Az gets killed tonight so we can work off his flip. Willing to give him a day, but wouldn't be 100% opposed.
DBS - Gut says DBS is neutral... which is the main reason I'm not screaming for his head this moment. Could vote him, but not my favorite lynch today.
Kaba - Town read. Not gonna vote.
Meg/Cythare - ... lurker scum? Cythare hasn't done a ton and maybe we should eliminate this slot now, as no way scum targets this with an NK. One thing leading me to not voting it is it would force yet another claim. Might be worth it to let this slot sit for a day in hopes it has some sort of useful role. Not a lot of info from this lynch either. Maybe?
RSJT - Feels townie, a little paranoid which is good for him. Not gonna vote.
Axelrod - Townie. Definitely not voting.
Ok, so people I don't mind voting: KJ, LW.
People that I could vote for, I guess: Iso, DBS, Cythare
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
@Lastwhisper: First bit of questioning is about your case on me.
1. Why is Post 5146 scummy?
2. Re: Your case on me. I just read through D2 of your ISO twice. Here's all mentions of me from you up to post #5178 in D2:
Out of those, I'll address those posts that (quite generously on my part, I think) might actually amount to some sort of case on me:
I get that it's a long game. But you seriously forgot where your vote was placed for FOUR DAYS, and posted FIVE TIMES in the meanwhile, saying your vote was placed differently than it actually was? Given the circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised if when you go into scumchat tonight with Az and whoever your other buddies are, you regret not getting away with a gambit of pushing me by saying you're voting for me when you're actually not.EDIT WHILE WRITING: Just saw #5192. While Bur did post two votecounts between #4701 and #5161, I don't feel good pressing this issue anyways. So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.
scumslip, I mean, rock. You even included an attempt to create wine between you and Jenna.Legendary Creature - Human Scum (M)
Whenever any amount of pressure is put on you, choose one or more —
- Tell the player(s) who put pressure on you that they shouldn't focus on you.
- Vote for a player who put pressure on you.
- Tell the player(s) who put pressure on you that they are scummy.
2/2Do you have more to your case of me, or just this excuse for a case? This is so flimsy that it would be more useful to just point to a burning shrubbery and say "It told me that it was God and Osie is scum." Feel free to let me know specifically if I've misinterpreted things you've said. I won't run away from that.
More to come, but it's late, so I'm calling it a night for now.
@LnGrrrR, @Terry, @Phoenix, @Tom, @Iso, @Axelrod, @Shinichi, @Jenna, @Killjoy:
Let's lynch Last! With great prejudice!
Vote: Lastwhisper
lynch me first. if town is gonna ignore the basic of sorting counterclaims first and continue hitting lynches at random.... I have no words.
Be grateful, always."
Relatedly, tinfoil hat theory: osi/Killjoy/Phoenix/Az
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
then again, Iso isn't off my radar and I think he could be scum, but the majority don't seem to be going for him...which could lead to another CFD. my suspects are Iso/Shin/Phoenix/Osie or Killjoy. not sure about Kaba/Cyth.
Be grateful, always."
1. what you think isn't necessarily the truth. are you looking for the truth or favoring your own views? the same can be said of Last/Shin~
2. I've had to deal with annoying posts that misrepresented me as "acting like a god with my claim", and never complained. I'm sure you can handle this much. for clarification, I'm saying you pull out posts that don't actually serve a purpose other than to question my wording. please look for real evidence or posts that help some of your theories click together. as for talk about replacing out, it looks like AtE to me. I've not hounded you yet or said you're irritating, so you shouldn't feel this hostile.
even if the claim may have holes, don't forget tracker can easily be a fakeclaim. if we're going for something with an eyewitness, the counterclaim is a good start since we all saw it. according to Last, Shinichi doesn't believe there can ever be two of the same alignment, so it's outright strange that he didn't address my claim sooner...only after we ended up mislynching.
gotta admit I agree with most of this list. Shin or Dawn not being in it is the weird part. a game where the scumteam doesn't have a roleblocker, and town ends up having 2... lol
Be grateful, always."
Yeah, but that's what makes this game interesting. Also, nah, I'm not just "favoring" my own views. But I am espousing my reads.
Don't tell me not to scumhunt. I don't really care if you hound me over errors or even particularly much if you just think I'm annoying. But if you actively are going to tell me that I should not ask people what they mean by their posts, then you're just telling me that I shouldn't play.
No harm in me testing that theory if hes my partner. Idc about bursamas other games, i care about this game. Only reason I dislike the claim is because its way way to convienent.
Of course they would if they think shes going to.
1.They know she will misfire
2. Shes scum
I don't trust you in the slighest
Why does it matter, the way jenna did it feels like town regardless, the fact that some people overreacted says alot aobut their own alignments.
You do realize asking me to help you without knowing your alignment is a load of bull. I already plan to betray certain people that I distrust and want to figre out. Phoenix being one of those people since i want to test out if his so called passive can be roleblocked.
Time to vote phoenix then
Dont see why this correlation is relevant seeing as how the hosts are different, and my talk about that mafia game had nothing to do with my role pm in this game. Was just an interaction with palyers from that game.
Doesnt matter if you prove your vigilante or not at this point when you literally could just be mafia making a night kill or a mafia with a double shot/delayed shot. As for this post now I will most def stop your shot, because now your doing what LNG did which is assuming that a specific action can only come from scum which is exactly why i dislike LNG slot.
No scum will most likely kill you when ur able to shoot, if they don't then its pretty obvious what your alignment is at this point. Mafia aren't dumb enough to allow a vig shot to go unchallenged.
Also I don't like when others point out rule breakings so plz dont be petty doing it to others.
current theory is still that shes a neutral and just wants to keep him around for the lulz essentially, but thats probably projecting what i would do. probably to someone like anak/huntz... in this game maybe you tbhso are you thinking kaba/phoenix with townkj?
and fwiw, i think kj is methodical enough as either alignment that that doesnt mean much. and i kinda think it looks like hes deciding what his opinion is going to be before the reasoning starts. but, you know. Post Formatting Reads...
still strongly dislike his immediate reaction to Jenna.
~~~~~~~
aside: hard unalignment between dawning/osi
theres just no... theatricality?
their interactions at this point are pretty numerous and... none of them have accomplished anything really. high posters with their own thing going on.
probably not AI for either but as w/w it would be pointed somewhere
~~~~~~~~~~~
i mean...
he should never see lylo. obviously.
not sure im willing to risk this game becoming no flip hes townier than you rnnot that anyone asked but this is why i voted osieh. better than your other team
why is that a tinfoil though?
besides maybe osi/kj together that seems almost consensus
~~~~~~~
responding like this is really hampering my flow
id be willing to lynch osi/kj/iso/cyth aorn.
not phoenix/az because claim
dawning/shin can easily be n/t. maybe t/t. never s/s. t/s is certainly possible but dont really want to go there today.
Ive literally played with a SK that can roleblock and kill before so whats your point?
Logically speaking do you think I am dumb enough to withhold doing somethat that would obviously get me scum read the longer I wait or say things that directly contradict my way of thinking? The answer is NO, because I dont think ur scum based on your role i think your scum bevhaorily.
Easy I cant control who my targets are, only you can and thats only as long as you saty at 3 bp. Which honestly seems very fair so idk what your on about if you looked at things mechanically you would see the balance in our roles.
Your welcome to explain your view on me then mr. scum
With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
Its not that we are bad at lieing its the fact that we're decent human beings and dont like lieing even for a so called fictional game lol.
They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
Ive literally played with a SK that can roleblock and kill before so whats your point?
Easy I cant control who my targets are, only you can and thats only as long as you saty at 3 bp. Which honestly seems very fair so idk what your on about if you looked at things mechanically you would see the balance in our roles.
Your welcome to explain your view on me then mr. scum
With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
Its not that we are bad at lieing its the fact that we're decent human beings and dont like lieing even for a so called fictional game lol.
They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
8
If I am the Omgus king, then you must be Omgus jester, because surely you jest, when you use the arguement "90% of the player base scum reads you, therefore you are scum."
Most of your case is just shading me anyways, and again, "90% of the player base scum reading me doesnt mean I am scum, just as my lack of a strong case, doesnt mean you are town, or that I am trying to force a case.
and in terms of flailing like a fish, you are most certainly doing that now, and I believe you are digging your own grave at this point... and lastly I think you are wrong, Ive been actively trying D2 to come back from my mess of a D1, so that whoever is town with me, wouldnt be stuck tunneling me again. and the length or substance of my posts shouldnt be indictive of my alignment... like seriously
With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
What does my post have to do with defending Dawn?
Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
Well I mean if you keep wining urself like this, your bound to get manipulated, we will deal with it as time comes, but the more you talk about it, the more that mafia can manipulate the game. Yes I know that Doc claims are scummy as hell, and yes Azrael as been scummy, as well as towny at points, will I be voting him today? Hell no...
They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
Says who? your trying to lead town in a terrible direction, because as Grrr stated its still totally possible for you to both be town, with maybe one of you being being tpr... and if you flip scum, what then?
I know its possible that 2 town roleblockers can exist, i literally just argued how our roles are different and completely balanced as town the fact that DBS doesnt see that is whats makng me think she is the scum roleblocker.
-Ive seen a mafia doctor before, but i think in that setup there was a town vigilante with a 1 shot so was so hard to sort of the doctor. Stating it or not I doubt mafia are going to be like "Lets keep the doc and vig alive because 1 PERSON IS GOING TO SCUM READ THEM FOR SAIDA CTION" You think too highly of my 1 opnion and 1 vote.
-That sort of logic makes me distrust your read on Osi.
1. Then exactly why do you scum read her???
2. I was a mafia doctor once, I know it can exist, again ur still wining urself... stop bringing this up, its not something we should be thinking about as of right now..
3. Why?
That said, re:reads, here you go. Turns out it's largely a regurgitation of LnGrrrR's list, but he's also one of my stronger town reads, so I'm ok with that.
Axelrod - He hasn't posted that much that I've really noticed toDay, but I have no feelings here and likely won't figure them out before the deadline.
Az - I haven't liked his approach today, but his claim is giving me pause. While Mafia doctors are a thing, we haven't seen a second kill so this doesn't need to be addressed toDay.
Dawn - I agree with you on the neutral thing. He was the first one to mention it that I recall, which usually points to being one. But this is a distraction for now.
Iso - His tunneling on Az today is poor and I don't remember anything else he's done. The degree of tunneling here is beyond what I'd expect of him.
JennaTolaria - Not voting here.
Kabazame - I don't really have a read here.
Killjoy - His approach on Phoenix is weird to me. It seemed to me like his response was a slip that he knew Phoenix's alignment, and his follow-up has felt a bit off to me.
LastWhisper - Happy to vote here - I pressed into Whisper earlier with my concern, and while I've been focused elsewhere to try to stay afloat, this read hasn't changed.
LnGrrrR - Not voting, strong town read.
Osieorb - Strong town read here as well - approach definitely coming from a town mindset.
Phoenix - I think he's felt fairly Town.
Terry - I don't really know much about Terry to formulate a read, and he's felt a bit all over the place, but low priority if any.
Shin - I'm mildly concerned that his focus is to drive mislynches, since he seems *really* focused, but I also don't think it's for toDay.
Tom - Not voting here.
My preference here is Killjoy or LastWhisper, but I'm open to an Iso lynch in theory. For everyone else, I either have a town read or don't have enough of a read on.
Vote Killjoy
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think have been Phoenix's biggest fan this entire game, but even I am standing on that razor's edge right about now. I need to re-read that whole sequence again.
The convoluted scheme that would have to be involved for Jenna to be scum out of that seems quite low, regardless. They would almost have to be scum together, which, again, seems just too extreme of a gambit for me to believe.
The most interesting/relevant thing DBS has said in all the blur of posting is the idea that it seems wrong for Town to have two claimed RBing-type roles with scum having none. I would tend to agree with that. The issue, of course, is that (a) neither of the currently claimed RBing roles are unconditional RBers and (b) scum could still easily have something that has not been claimed. So I am loathe to make a dichotomy between DBS and Shin yet. As more people flip, however, and we see or do not see something like this in scum-aligned hands, it would make me more and more nervous.
But I also feel somewhat strongly that the fact Shin allied with LW last night when LW had said in no uncertain terms that he was going to Betray points strongly towards Town Shin. I think scum betray Town when (a) they know they are being betrayed themselves and/or (b) they have an easy excuse to do so. Scum Shin hurts himself and his team allying a Town LW. I do not see them as scum together.