We will come back to you Day 3 if you survive. Give me a scum head on a plater today and I still don't think ISO is scum. I'm going to assume you guys are T v T for now.
@Terry: Why are you collecting this in one place like this?
Because scum will have all this info and more anyways, might as well share it with everyone else. I also have some angles to investigate based off of it.
Okay...
Junpei, Town Neighbourizer.
Passive Ability name: Morphogenetic Field
@DBS Thats your opinion on when someone should full claim, you not even putting in hypotheticals or any of that *****. A person can claim whenever they want, claiming randomly isn't always scum it depends on the situation and why they claimed.
I claimed cause you asked not to counter claim you, since I am not the same as you.
nope I honestly didn't care to give anyone Bp yesterday, self centered yes, but the way I saw it, most of day 1 was me defending myself... And day 1 shin was not a town read... He was more of a neutral. And I told everyone before, if shin had betrayed me, then I'd be trapped for night 2. And I didn't want that...
I think you should read Shinichi's ISO, he's been self-centered about how to play the AB game as well. and it looks like Shinichi planned to Betray everyone, so for him to Ally with you (and tell me he only planned to betray Dawn/LnG) looks like a lie.
Woah where and how did you come to the conclusion I would betray anyone? You must not know me well enough because i would have chosen ally on atleast 90% of the game lmao. Idk what you take me for but when I play mafia unless I am scum I don't purposely put someone in harms way. If I cant prove your mafia I aint going to just needlessly betray people that just hurts town.
I still wanna know where you based this conclusion on, because I dont like be sold off as some ******** player.
I didn't see the part where she claimed tracker. No. I saw the part where she voted Pheonix, which led me to believe she was the only person who she saw target DV with a watch. I saw other people saying she wa tracker so I figured it out from there.
Can you talk to me about your thought process with voting after Jenna did without actually knowing what she said in the context of it? I find it difficult to believe that you just didn't read her explanation post before following with a vote.
Everyone claim if they targetted Person X->Everyone claims->Vote Person Y obviously signals some kind of watcher/tracker ability. The context obviously pointed to ONE of them. I just guessed the wrong one.
I voted you because it seemed obvious that she thought she caught you via investigate. And I wanted to put some pressure on you for that reason, and partially to gauge your reaction to said pressure. (Misunderstanding your role was NAI, but I think actually forgetting that you could have commited the mafia kill was probably +town. I did also like the apology at the end of the post where you clarified about the passive targeting.)
------------
I need to figure out why tom thinks Pheonix is scum. I'm not seeing it.
I'm not a huge fan of all the setupgaming in the post where he's voting me. Obviously I disagree that I'm scum, but hey that's life.
------------------------- @Axel: Do you, like... want to know anything? You seem to be scumreading me but you seem to be doing so passively.
----------------------------
At some point I need to do more ISOs. Maybe when I get another day off.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Thought: I'm absolutely not sure that there's scum in Iso/Az. I dislike the widespread opinion that it's true/could be true, as this feels like the forced Anak/me dichotomy from Low Fantasy.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
But as scum, you just claim you didn't use your ability and then give BP to your scumbuddy. There's no reason to create a paper trail.
except i actually didnt use my ability, and ur assuming otherwise because you think the possible action would be for me to give BP. You can keep asking me questions about this, but there are many reasons why I didnt use my ability...
Same concept in my last game, no one believe me that I hadnt roleblcked they just all assumed I used it without an justification as of why I couldn't or didnt want to use it. I even gave the exact reason as to why i choose not to use it no body cared lol.
@Shin, Silence of the Lambs mafia team had a watcher, and it was insanely useful as we caught both the doctor and a gift giver the same night wjth a fortunate watch. I dont think tracker or watcher are j
inherently scummy.
@tom My role does not stop a kill, its protective in a sense it prevents an ability from being manipluated. Funny part is has anyone even claimed any sort of ability that changes an ablities target or action? Because im assuming that someone scum aligned must have any an ability that is negated by my passive.
Also my ability is passive, i don't have much control so in that sense its the same since the aiblities is the same but I just lack control.
#3867 sounds really bad. Like "focus on someone less problematic?" What kind of argument is that?
Then we have #3869 with "too much focus to be worth pressuring" … "But what about Hillary's emails" comes to mind.
@Shinichi: What's your current read on me and why?
#3892, #3893: Because you WERE the key person instigating and pushing for CFDs and a GF lynch.
#3897 is arguing from perspective of WIFOM, i.e. a vacuous hypothesis. Certainly doesn't make me more comfortable about Az this game.
Like, my biggest ongoing concern at the moment is that I'm hooked on these issues I was feeling from a large part of D1:
* Azrael and Dawning conspire to mislynch if they can't safely achieve a No Lynch. At the last moment, they split to hide things.
* Dawning and Last make a lot of petulant (more Dawning, some Last) and defensive (more Last, some Dawning) posts about themselves and each other. This continues into D2.
* At first, Az's push on Iso seemed legit. But looking closer, especially over the later posts, a lot of it didn't really feel organic. It felt like Az was saying something he didn't completely believe.
Like, I have enough fear respect for Az to believe that this whole game is more likely an elaborate scumgame, especially given that I don't believe in his scumreads. Though most people would be likely to put at least 1 scum on that team, I think. Whether or not Az would have done that or gambled really hard on the power of WIFOM… Like, there's just too many instances where I run into choosing between WIFOM -> Town outcome or KILL IT WITH FIRE.
I think the best way to describe my reads of Az, Last, and Dawning would be:
Az - Terrifying Scum puppetmaster
One or both of these two are probably scum:
Dawning - Looks, smells, and quacks like scum.
Last - Looks, smells, and quacks like scum.
The question then comes up as to who the fourth person is. But the most important bit for me at this point is to hit one scum, so we can at least get a bit of a hint from that as to who the rest are. And in that vein, I think Az is our best choice, since if he's not scum, well, we have a suggested scum team from him, and he is a solid analyst as town... So that would be the first place to look.
Let me get this straight. You want to lynch me, so that you'll know if you can trust my rereads?
lol
It's not a scum tell for you, but it's pretty silly. I don't suppose you'll take more word while living that none of those three are highly probable scum?
Let me get this straight. You want to lynch me, so that you'll know if you can trust my rereads?
lol
It's not a scum tell for you, but it's pretty silly. I don't suppose you'll take more word while living that none of those three are highly probable scum?
It's not a terrible idea. Reasons. I'd love to trust az, but he was wrong on grape and I think he's wrong on Iso. We may be looking at two Alpha Towns headbutting. I'm OK with not lynching az today. AZ who do you want to bus right now? Give me scum today and we can play longer without me screaming for your head on a platter. Is it DBS or LW? What do you think about phoenix? Jenna?
[@Tom #4903]
let's say you remove the possibility of a neutral from this.
if Dawn is town, who in Azrael/Shin is scum?
if Shin is town, who in Dawn/Azrael is scum?
if Azrael is town, who in Dawn/Shin is scum?
Dawn/Iso are both killing roles. do you think there's town/neutral, scum/town, or scum/neutral? where does Shinichi fit into all this? I'm starting to think there's better balance if it's town/neutral.
I'm not sure how you can think of my role as neutral though... I would be on the brink of death, while being up against informed/uninformed groups, before doing anything with my role - a suicidal neutral. if that was the case, I would surely have some kind of information I'm hiding from you all...and I wouldn't be going down easily because mafia will need me around. I don't see any of that happening.
[@Shinichi #4920]
there's no hypothetical since I'm addressing what I know to be the norm in fullclaiming. please tell me what other reasons there are to fullclaim so I can consider.
I fullclaimed since you said only partclaiming was scummy, and that was a good reason I can't refute. if my fullclaim later on had no impact on your decision, since you thought my 'claiming under fishy circumstances' is enough, why did you want to hear my fullclaim? it looks like you're admitting to rolefishing. being roleblocker didn't change your mind, and you only said it was a scummy role to justify/reinforce your vote on me...there was no questions in regards to the role pm. only Tom brought up the line about factional kills. I don't think you're a roleblocker.
"I still wanna know where you based this conclusion on, because I dont like be sold off as some ******** player."
you're the one who said you're a scummy player and will understand if you're lynched to prove that you're town-aligned [here]. so yes, I'm basing this conclusion on your words. you also know that my playstyle tends to be seen in a bad light, so you should reflect on your actions before calling me scum without a second thought.
[@Osie #4927]
"look, smell, quack like scum" = scum? why?
and it looks like your suspects are Azrael/Dawn/Last. mind explaining what we were achieving by openly supporting each other? in your perspective and words.
[@Terry #4905]
I've already claimed but they probably got lost in repetitions, at post #1721.
compression: roleblock
annihilation: vigilante
posts like these make me like you better for town. I really wonder if I should trust my gamestate reads or not... then again, never trusting my reads is usually what goes wrong lol
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I was honestly so sure Shin was gunna betray me. Like my plan was never to betray everyone, I only originally stated it to see how people would react. Lets be honest here, would anyone have even allied me except maybe Azreal, which I believed at the time was possible trying to pocket me, but we also both agreed that Grape looked scummy, so I looked over that possibility…
Night 1
(Betray/Betray)
In this scenario, if I used my ability I would be left with 2 BP. Again not as bad as having 1, but still, I felt like I’d be stuck in a choke hold…
Night 2
(Betray/Ally)
My partner manages to get me to ally, and betrays me. Again If I had used my ability I’d be dead, and again, almost everyone would still betray me at this point. In this outcome regardless if I had used my ability, it would be hard to prove if my partner was scum or town, because everyone wanted me dead anyways
(Ally/Ally)
We both live happily ever after and I use my ability.
Night 1
(Ally/Betray)
I use my ability, still good, but I was very doubtful this would happen…
Night 2
I am able to use my ability however, going into even a few nights, as long as I keep allying and no one betrays, which I am happy to do
“Well why don’t you look less scummy then” Thanks for the advice, brain…
I left the scenarios out that were most likely not gunna happen...
I mean if your looking for super townie reasons for why I didnt use my ability, then you wont find them, is my selfishness scummy, maybe? I kinda just do w/e I feel like... lol
Also I was afraid of people using my own ability against me, know one had to believe me, and everyone wanted me out of their PoE
I think the best way to describe my reads of Az, Last, and Dawning would be:
Az - Terrifying Scum puppetmaster
One or both of these two are probably scum:
Dawning - Looks, smells, and quacks like scum.
Last - Looks, smells, and quacks like scum.
The question then comes up as to who the fourth person is. But the most important bit for me at this point is to hit one scum, so we can at least get a bit of a hint from that as to who the rest are. And in that vein, I think Az is our best choice, since if he's not scum, well, we have a suggested scum team from him, and he is a solid analyst as town... So that would be the first place to look.
So let me get this straight, Azazel is hard defending his buddy by saying the AtE is town motivated... and me and dawn are scum theater? and That both agreed that Iso/Azrael are unaligned, and both are pushing the opposite of each other. ok...
But as scum, you just claim you didn't use your ability and then give BP to your scumbuddy. There's no reason to create a paper trail.
except i actually didnt use my ability, and ur assuming otherwise because you think the possible action would be for me to give BP. You can keep asking me questions about this, but there are many reasons why I didnt use my ability...
Same concept in my last game, no one believe me that I hadnt roleblcked they just all assumed I used it without an justification as of why I couldn't or didnt want to use it. I even gave the exact reason as to why i choose not to use it no body cared lol.
let's not forget, you flipped scum there even if you told the truth.
nobody has to believe what anyone says about their role. you also don't believe what I say about my role.
it's the behavior you should focus on. I want to see you argue your way out in terms of behavior, since I've been quite informative outside of the claiming mess - if that's your only reason to have me lynched, it shows you're aiming to lynch anyone so long as they aren't scum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
guess I'll have to stick to this one. nicely convinced myself that he's scum.
I wont be following u there... at least not yet
it's possible that Iso is neutral while Azrael is town. 2 killing roles can't be both town, and it's more balanced if 1 is neutral rather than scum.
lynching a claimed doc is a bad idea either way. he's claimed on similar grounds as I did, to avoid any EoD panic, so I would think that is town-motivated. don't get stuck in the Azrael/Iso death trap.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
guess I'll have to stick to this one. nicely convinced myself that he's scum.
I wont be following u there... at least not yet
it's possible that Iso is neutral while Azrael is town. 2 killing roles can't be both town, and it's more balanced if 1 is neutral rather than scum.
lynching a claimed doc is a bad idea either way. he's claimed on similar grounds as I did, to avoid any EoD panic, so I would think that is town-motivated. don't get stuck in the Azrael/Iso death trap.
I aint stuck in no trap, and if it comes to TPR flips, I believe you and Iso both have similiar chances of flipping it... Im literally not even voting either of them, like what??
guess I'll have to stick to this one. nicely convinced myself that he's scum.
I wont be following u there... at least not yet
it's possible that Iso is neutral while Azrael is town. 2 killing roles can't be both town, and it's more balanced if 1 is neutral rather than scum.
lynching a claimed doc is a bad idea either way. he's claimed on similar grounds as I did, to avoid any EoD panic, so I would think that is town-motivated. don't get stuck in the Azrael/Iso death trap.
I aint stuck in no trap, and if it comes to TPR flips, I believe you and Iso both have similiar chances of flipping it... Im literally not even voting either of them, like what??
instead of the better lynch option on a neutral, you're lynching a possible town. the way things have tunneled onto Azrael/Iso means the likelihood of scum in that pairing is slim. I'm really thinking this is a death trap =.=
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
guess I'll have to stick to this one. nicely convinced myself that he's scum.
I wont be following u there... at least not yet
it's possible that Iso is neutral while Azrael is town. 2 killing roles can't be both town, and it's more balanced if 1 is neutral rather than scum.
lynching a claimed doc is a bad idea either way. he's claimed on similar grounds as I did, to avoid any EoD panic, so I would think that is town-motivated. don't get stuck in the Azrael/Iso death trap.
I aint stuck in no trap, and if it comes to TPR flips, I believe you and Iso both have similiar chances of flipping it... Im literally not even voting either of them, like what??
instead of the better lynch option on a neutral, you're lynching a possible town. the way things have tunneled onto Azrael/Iso means the likelihood of scum in that pairing is slim. I'm really thinking this is a death trap =.=
and u dont think I thought of that possibility? and again im voting Osie anyways....
Thought: I'm absolutely not sure that there's scum in Iso/Az. I dislike the widespread opinion that it's true/could be true, as this feels like the forced Anak/me dichotomy from Low Fantasy.
yeah i said that earlier.
top suspect in that world is osi
and if he was town with scum az, i think one of az's buddies would have probably voted him with me? idk that was the idea of the vote anyway. maybe didnt leave it long enough
Funny part is has anyone even claimed any sort of ability that changes an ablities target or action? Because im assuming that someone scum aligned must have any an ability that is negated by my passive.
yes. dawning.
i think i alluded to this before but between interactions and roles this game really feels like a puzzle, more so than usual even, and i feel like i just need a corner piece/scumflip and everything will start falling into place. like i dont want to setup game too much, or make too many pre flip associations. but that's whats really coming to me when i think about this game. and it ought to make it solvable.
think thats an all town wagon on iso. maybe axel i guess but i just have so many positive feelings
could definitely be scum on the whisper wagon/not voting. phoenix>megs>>>kaba>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>lngrr
but theres probaby 2 or more on grape
kj/osi not really a thing
iso/az neither
shin/dawning probably not
iso>kj>osi>>dawning>>>>>az>whisper>shin>>>>>joe
jenna town tracker. i actually ended up really liking the way she claimed. someone said her role was too powerful but between the bp game and maybe phoenix's role thats a false catch if hes town and the possibility of an unassigned kill (especially if kjscum) and maybe some other things we dont need to talk about right now it seems balanced.
lngrr's role isnt as important but his reaction to pressure was town af, especially compared to low fantasy where he just sort of folded like a cheap card table, especially in the face of atpg.
axel ive had one or two issues with, especially if iso/az end up being town, but a lot more positive pings. hes just thinking about things in a really townie way.
joe... idk what to do with joe really but he really ******* believes what hes saying
whisper ive been feeling better about as the day goes on. like, yeah he doesnt really seem to know whats happened in this game despite being 10% of the posts in it. but i think the word ive seen to describe him that felt viscerally right was "guileless". his reactions are consistent. doesnt matter who says a thing, what he thought of that person before. its just reacting.
kaba is still not a big part of the game but hes had some opinions i dug and he looks kinda townie
shin i would have higher but i dont really understand his setup gaming/lack thereof wrt dawning/az
dawning is probably still neutral tbh. could be scum i guess.
az has pinged me a couple times. not lynching a doctor claim though.
phoenix probably just killed dv. looks townie though.
osi is sitting back letting town devour itself.
cyth's slot keeps fitting on teams and not doing townie things.
iso chose a scumteam because he was pressured to do so, then isnt taking into account any new evidence really. the thing i (and az) talked about earlier where town iso has this constantly changing worldview based on new evidence and yes he has a tendency to tunnel regardless of alignment once he thinks hes right/can feasibly claim to think hes right but i just... dont think the process is there here.
kj was just ready to vote whoever jenna did with no critical thinking. i dont buy someone as wishy washy/considerate as town killjoy not reading the claim post.
it's possible that Iso is neutral while Azrael is town. 2 killing roles can't be both town, and it's more balanced if 1 is neutral rather than scum.
lynching a claimed doc is a bad idea either way. he's claimed on similar grounds as I did, to avoid any EoD panic, so I would think that is town-motivated. don't get stuck in the Azrael/Iso death trap.
I aint stuck in no trap, and if it comes to TPR flips, I believe you and Iso both have similiar chances of flipping it... Im literally not even voting either of them, like what??
instead of the better lynch option on a neutral, you're lynching a possible town. the way things have tunneled onto Azrael/Iso means the likelihood of scum in that pairing is slim. I'm really thinking this is a death trap =.=
and u dont think I thought of that possibility? and again im voting Osie anyways....
I just think it's best we move on from the Azrael/Iso focus. if Azrael is doc he might not survive the Night, or maybe he will...to be set up as "best lynch for the Day". who else do you think we should focus on? I don't mind a lynch on Osie, but Shinichi is a possible roleblocker who could interfere with our abilities (and my roleblocking ability is activated), so it's best to sort and lynch one of us first. roleblocking will be detrimental towards the end, especially for scum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I asked the mod. if there was going to be any differentiation in the "morning" scenes between people who get killed by the Mafia vs. people who died because they ran out of BP/got betrayed. Then I asked (without really expecting an answer) whether all the dying in this game is just from running out of BP, like the Mafia kill is "target player loses all their BP" or something like that, meaning all the deaths would look the same.
Mod. answer was that all the deaths are going to look the same. So we aren't going to be able to tell (necessarily) who died because they got targeted by the mafia vs. who might have died because he burned up all his BP/got betrayed/etc.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@DVD, what neutral role is stronger? Arguably SK, but this game seems somewhat low powered, so I could definitely see your role as a neutral. If people are allying you, you are good, if you are getting betrayed, you can try to use your abilities to survive.
I think Az confirmed that at least one of the killing roles has to be legit.
@DVD, what neutral role is stronger? Arguably SK, but this game seems somewhat low powered, so I could definitely see your role as a neutral. If people are allying you, you are good, if you are getting betrayed, you can try to use your abilities to survive.
I think Az confirmed that at least one of the killing roles has to be legit.
time to be used to being a dvd lol
if there is a serial killer, why was there only 1 kill? we can argue that I only kill when under threat as a low-powered neutral. the extra killing and manipulative roles apart from mine (hypothetically neutral), makes this extremely town-sided.
if one of Shin/Iso are scum, which is it most likely to be? I'm thinking Shin, because a killing role is too obviously scummy. even if you try to argue that both Shin/Iso are town, and Dawn is neutral, I don't see how an extra protective (doctor) would lose out. town should have more protective than killing/manipulative roles - in light of that, Azrael is town and 1 of Iso/Shin is scum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@DBS, sure, but if the rest of the town is low powered, then a low powered neutral/semi SK makes sense. And does it matter to a neutral/SK if the game is slightly town sided? Isnt that better for the neutral?
On modgaming alone, I think Iso's ability is more likely to be scum. Scum who can take out an extra person is pretty strong, but if they have to "earn" it by playing townie, then it is more fair. Hm. Also, town having two high BP count abilities is probably unlikely? My ability only makes sense if scum have a high BP ability they want to turn on.
But all that said, I don't think an Iso lynch makes sense, and here's why. Az claimed doctor. If he is dead tomorrow, we can determine his alignment and go from there. If he isn't dead, then we explore why. Either way, Az's info should help us figure out Iso. I am giving some benefit of the doubt here that Iso does more analyzing, but D2 seems weird.
That said, not sure who our best lynch is now. Probably need to reread Phoenix, as Occams Razor says he is probably the killer.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
* there's enough to focus on Dawn/Shin. amount of shade looks like from an informed mindset....regardless of neutral or not.
* plenty of negatives between Shin/Last for him to even choose Ally. [kinda feels like he threw a tantrum by Allying to scumread Last next Day]
* Osie/Shin is pretty vague, but I think they aren't aligned. Osie probs town.
* Axel/Terry haven't got much interactions.
* possible team: Iso/Phoenix/Killjoy/Kaba/Cyth.
* lots of fluff. plenty of early references to meta.
* nothing that refers to himself as possible roleblocker, even when someone claimed it.
* focused on discrediting/supporting certain players from the start...reeks of a hidden agenda.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
[@LnG #4949]
might be best to focus on Shin. by interaction, I think Shin's our best option...informative as well. IF he flips town, I volunteer to be lynched next. the tunnel just doesn't look town either way I look at it. Phoenix could be scum, but I'm not sure if the ability is real or not....in the offchance that it is, it's bad for us. I haven't outruled Iso yet..but I'd rather not focus on that.
@Last
please tell me what inspires you to trust Iso so much. I'd say Azrael is the most transparent about his alignment while we're all trying to play martyr to "prove our sincerity". I wanna hear what exactly makes you want Azrael lynched. are you just paranoid? or is it his forceful tone? what you think of as 'controlling' is earned - it isn't just a gamestate or the mysterious minority that favors him, but those real cases and thoughts he make.
and uhh.. my sleeptime got messed up lol
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
If Pheronix is town, at least one of Tom/LnGrrR is scum.
I disagree that Pheonix is scum by Occum's Razor. Tracks give very limited info, and I have a townread on him. I liked his reaction to Jenna's claim
and if phoenix is scum?
i agree his reaction was fine. and i think hes townie too.
but the simplest explanation for being tracked to dv last night is definitely that he just... killed dv
im not even trying to lynch him. im frankly terrified of this turning into a no flip game. he should just be betrayed from now until forever
If Pheronix is town, at least one of Tom/LnGrrR is scum.
I disagree that Pheonix is scum by Occum's Razor. Tracks give very limited info, and I have a townread on him. I liked his reaction to Jenna's claim
I don't know if you understand what Occam's Razor is. It's the "simplest" explanation. The simplest explanation for Jenna's result is that Phoenix killed D_V. The more complicated explanation is that he has a REALLY weird role, that passively visits people so flips are revealed. I mean, it's not that complicated:
1) D_V died.
2) Jenna tracked Phoenix, who visited D_V.
There may be limited info, but it's not THAT hard to work out the simplest answer.
I thought his response was pretty townie too, hence the unvote. Did you not know what Occam's Razor is, or are you just trying to twist words to fit an argument?
[@Osie #4927]
"look, smell, quack like scum" = scum? why?
and it looks like your suspects are Azrael/Dawn/Last. mind explaining what we were achieving by openly supporting each other? in your perspective and words.
It mostly comes down to reading a lot of posts that appear defensive or anti-town. Either one of you two could individually be town, but the idea of either of you paired with Az or all three as a group is nagging at me. In regards to open support, I don't have enough time at the moment, but I promise to go into more detail beyond "the power of WIFOM" this afternoon/evening.
If Az isn't scum, then I am less suspicious about either of you two, though you are not out of the picture as potential scum.
Re: Az - I want to lynch you because I don't trust you enough. If you flip town, then I will trust those reads more. If not, then I won't.
Yes really. If anything that wording more strongly suggests it because of the phrase "night choice". Much more inclusive than using their role or ability as the phrasing. The "if they have one" appears included for purposes of Vanilla town being roleblocked, and I don't see why it would exclude factional night kills in the first place.
I've never seen anyone say a roleblocker can block a nightkill, only another pr - when I was learning my way around. ugh. whatever.
I have a reason why i know yours stops night kills either way so
[quote from="Grapefruit21 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/784906-zero-escape-mafia-day-1-welcome-to-my-kingdom?comment=1742"]NB Shinichi confirmed that RB's do generally block nightkills at DBS's home site. Again I think this is NAI at all. But just trying to make sure the record is straight.
really? here: "Role-blocker - Each Night, the Role-blocker can choose a player. That player will be prevented from using their Night choice, if they have one. Role-blocker has been known to be a Town role as well as a mafia role."
it wouldn't be "if they have one" if it didn't refer to the ability and not role itself, since mafia always have their factional kill.
In closed I atleast make it so roleblockers stop night kills, idk aobut everyone else.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
[@Osie #4927]
"look, smell, quack like scum" = scum? why?
and it looks like your suspects are Azrael/Dawn/Last. mind explaining what we were achieving by openly supporting each other? in your perspective and words.
It mostly comes down to reading a lot of posts that appear defensive or anti-town. Either one of you two could individually be town, but the idea of either of you paired with Az or all three as a group is nagging at me. In regards to open support, I don't have enough time at the moment, but I promise to go into more detail beyond "the power of WIFOM" this afternoon/evening.
If Az isn't scum, then I am less suspicious about either of you two, though you are not out of the picture as potential scum.
Re: Az - I want to lynch you because I don't trust you enough. If you flip town, then I will trust those reads more. If not, then I won't.
Re: Tom - Sorry I got busy with school.
will be waiting on those details then. I can't see any situation where Azrael is scum, but I can see myself as a potential neutral. and...can we not base our trust off corpses? I don't think we're even pondering Grapefruit's departure, so what makes you think we will consider Azrael's sacrifice any more valuable? if you don't trust Grapefruit's reads on any of us, neither will you trust Azrael if he flipped town. martyrdom is....not helpful to our situation.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I can see a really interesting way to make Shinichi scum for sure... pretty much just PoE~
Iso/Dawn - killing
Dawn/Shin - manipulative
Iso vs Dawn:
2 killing roles have better balance in being town/neutral. Dawn is neutral at worst.
Dawn vs Shin:
Dawn is neutral at worst. 2 roleblockers on the side of town is unbalanced. Shin has the possibility of being scum.
I hope you realize that if you ever switch over your alignment to neutral, I will lynch you with all the fury on earth... Just saying, you know how I feel about neutral claims... and if you thought two roleblockers was bad from as soon as Shin claimed, then why wait so long to suggest this... and again your post last night for me was wierd, why all of a sudden are you so worried, that both Az and Iso will flip town/town, or town/tpr
@DVD, what neutral role is stronger? Arguably SK, but this game seems somewhat low powered, so I could definitely see your role as a neutral. If people are allying you, you are good, if you are getting betrayed, you can try to use your abilities to survive.
I think Az confirmed that at least one of the killing roles has to be legit.
time to be used to being a dvd lol
if there is a serial killer, why was there only 1 kill? we can argue that I only kill when under threat as a low-powered neutral. the extra killing and manipulative roles apart from mine (hypothetically neutral), makes this extremely town-sided.
if one of Shin/Iso are scum, which is it most likely to be? I'm thinking Shin, because a killing role is too obviously scummy. even if you try to argue that both Shin/Iso are town, and Dawn is neutral, I don't see how an extra protective (doctor) would lose out. town should have more protective than killing/manipulative roles - in light of that, Azrael is town and 1 of Iso/Shin is scum.
1. Someone was saved, but since we can probably conclude that no town protective abilities could be used last night, its safe to assume that didnt happen.. but again its wierd that Bur would make it so know town protectives could use their ability day 1, Which is why I am more inclined to believe Shin is town.
2. Tpr just didnt make a kill, I mean would you make a kill day 1, and risk letting everyone know, a 2nd killing party existed.
3. I think Az/Iso/Shin all have equal chance of being scum, with Iso having a high chance of being tpr, but what would be the point of a tpr with vengeance, and who would he possibly win with? unless hes some Jester role...
[@LnG #4949]
might be best to focus on Shin. by interaction, I think Shin's our best option...informative as well. IF he flips town, I volunteer to be lynched next. the tunnel just doesn't look town either way I look at it. Phoenix could be scum, but I'm not sure if the ability is real or not....in the offchance that it is, it's bad for us. I haven't outruled Iso yet..but I'd rather not focus on that.
@Last
please tell me what inspires you to trust Iso so much. I'd say Azrael is the most transparent about his alignment while we're all trying to play martyr to "prove our sincerity". I wanna hear what exactly makes you want Azrael lynched. are you just paranoid? or is it his forceful tone? what you think of as 'controlling' is earned - it isn't just a gamestate or the mysterious minority that favors him, but those real cases and thoughts he make.
and uhh.. my sleeptime got messed up lol
again idk where these assumptions are coming from, At this point I trust Iso/Az very little, and with just their roles and their actions alone, I would lynch a venge over a doctor, Az would be sorted out in the coming days anyways, if he wasnt scum... and ya maybe I am a little paranoid
If Pheronix is town, at least one of Tom/LnGrrR is scum.
I disagree that Pheonix is scum by Occum's Razor. Tracks give very limited info, and I have a townread on him. I liked his reaction to Jenna's claim
and if phoenix is scum?
i agree his reaction was fine. and i think hes townie too.
but the simplest explanation for being tracked to dv last night is definitely that he just... killed dv
im not even trying to lynch him. im frankly terrified of this turning into a no flip game. he should just be betrayed from now until forever
Same with above, what did you like about his reaction, and if their was anything you didnt like, what was it?
and I agree that the most simplistic assumption would be that Phoenix killed D.V. and +1, I am also afraid of this becoming a flipless game, betray forever lmao...
I hope you realize that if you ever switch over your alignment to neutral, I will lynch you with all the fury on earth... Just saying, you know how I feel about neutral claims... and if you thought two roleblockers was bad from as soon as Shin claimed, then why wait so long to suggest this... and again your post last night for me was wierd, why all of a sudden are you so worried, that both Az and Iso will flip town/town, or town/tpr
try me. I'm only neutral at worst. and with this equation, I'm more sure of Shin now.
1. Someone was saved, but since we can probably conclude that no town protective abilities could be used last night, its safe to assume that didnt happen.. but again its wierd that Bur would make it so know town protectives could use their ability day 1, Which is why I am more inclined to believe Shin is town.
2. Tpr just didnt make a kill, I mean would you make a kill day 1, and risk letting everyone know, a 2nd killing party existed.
3. I think Az/Iso/Shin all have equal chance of being scum, with Iso having a high chance of being tpr, but what would be the point of a tpr with vengeance, and who would he possibly win with? unless hes some Jester role...
I don't think Shin is town. when checking his ISO, I've noticed he challenged my townread on him few times, as if implying that I was wrong. a lot of his posts have an agenda behind it, as if he has a goal from start to finish. he entered this game with a goal, and has been pushing it from the start. whatever his goal is, it's pro-mafia.
again idk where these assumptions are coming from, At this point I trust Iso/Az very little, and with just their roles and their actions alone, I would lynch a venge over a doctor, Az would be sorted out in the coming days anyways, if he wasnt scum... and ya maybe I am a little paranoid
so you admit it. don't be paranoid then. I'd go for Shin, since I'm more sure about him than I am about Iso. if Iso is a neutral, we would be wasting a lynch on pre-flip association. Dawn/Shin has a bigger chance of hitting scum. and yes, I don't mind being a countertrain, so long as its against Shin. I'm kind of worried this is a tunnel, but checking back I don't think it is. I'm willing to be lynched if it'll secure his lynch.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I hope you realize that if you ever switch over your alignment to neutral, I will lynch you with all the fury on earth... Just saying, you know how I feel about neutral claims... and if you thought two roleblockers was bad from as soon as Shin claimed, then why wait so long to suggest this... and again your post last night for me was wierd, why all of a sudden are you so worried, that both Az and Iso will flip town/town, or town/tpr
try me. I'm only neutral at worst. and with this equation, I'm more sure of Shin now.
1. Someone was saved, but since we can probably conclude that no town protective abilities could be used last night, its safe to assume that didnt happen.. but again its wierd that Bur would make it so know town protectives could use their ability day 1, Which is why I am more inclined to believe Shin is town.
2. Tpr just didnt make a kill, I mean would you make a kill day 1, and risk letting everyone know, a 2nd killing party existed.
3. I think Az/Iso/Shin all have equal chance of being scum, with Iso having a high chance of being tpr, but what would be the point of a tpr with vengeance, and who would he possibly win with? unless hes some Jester role...
I don't think Shin is town. when checking his ISO, I've noticed he challenged my townread on him few times, as if implying that I was wrong. a lot of his posts have an agenda behind it, as if he has a goal from start to finish. he entered this game with a goal, and has been pushing it from the start. whatever his goal is, it's pro-mafia.
again idk where these assumptions are coming from, At this point I trust Iso/Az very little, and with just their roles and their actions alone, I would lynch a venge over a doctor, Az would be sorted out in the coming days anyways, if he wasnt scum... and ya maybe I am a little paranoid
so you admit it. don't be paranoid then. I'd go for Shin, since I'm more sure about him than I am about Iso. if Iso is a neutral, we would be wasting a lynch on pre-flip association. Dawn/Shin has a bigger chance of hitting scum. and yes, I don't mind being a countertrain, so long as its against Shin. I'm kind of worried this is a tunnel, but checking back I don't think it is. I'm willing to be lynched if it'll secure his lynch.
How does my quote even correlate with you being sure of Shins alignment, and dont be am ambiguous, if you think Shin has some master plan then spit it out? If its just to tunnel you all game, then its a ***** plan...
and what beyond a doubt makes you so sure that Azreal will flip town?
how did he challenge your town read tho? I think that context actually matters...
and ya Grapes lynch isnt very helpful right now, to the point where we aint even bringing it up. Their is 17 players, and 3 trains roughly 9/4/4.
1) all scum are on Grape... no possible way, cause they would be ok with a no lynch
2) some are on grape, and some are else where.... maybe 2/2?
but my point is, we werent lynching grape for information, we were lynching him cause we thought he was scum... so again I dont get what your point is, when bringing up the grape lynch again...
I'm going to be V/LA til Monday
I'd appreciate if everyone could answer my questions regarding Iso/Az
Does anyone believe that Iso/Az are scum/scum, and not just "it could be possible if I squint hard enough" but actually believe they are, and why?
Does anyone believe they're both town, legitimately believe it, not just "it could be possible"?
The deadline is on thanksgiving, I propose that we try and play like it's the day before and aim to get a lynch then, I don't particularly want to be playing on thanksgiving, nor do I expect I will have heaps of extra time to do so.
guess I'll have to stick to this one. nicely convinced myself that he's scum.
I wont be following u there... at least not yet
it's possible that Iso is neutral while Azrael is town. 2 killing roles can't be both town, and it's more balanced if 1 is neutral rather than scum.
lynching a claimed doc is a bad idea either way. he's claimed on similar grounds as I did, to avoid any EoD panic, so I would think that is town-motivated. don't get stuck in the Azrael/Iso death trap.
Can you explain to me how it makes sense for me to be a Neutral...when Neutrals normally need to survive to win...and my ability only works when I die?
What are you hypothesizing my win condition could possibly be as a Neutral with that ability?
iso chose a scumteam because he was pressured to do so, then isnt taking into account any new evidence really. the thing i (and az) talked about earlier where town iso has this constantly changing worldview based on new evidence and yes he has a tendency to tunnel regardless of alignment once he thinks hes right/can feasibly claim to think hes right but i just... dont think the process is there here.
Yes really. If anything that wording more strongly suggests it because of the phrase "night choice". Much more inclusive than using their role or ability as the phrasing. The "if they have one" appears included for purposes of Vanilla town being roleblocked, and I don't see why it would exclude factional night kills in the first place.
I've never seen anyone say a roleblocker can block a nightkill, only another pr - when I was learning my way around. ugh. whatever.
I have a reason why i know yours stops night kills either way so
[quote from="Grapefruit21 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/784906-zero-escape-mafia-day-1-welcome-to-my-kingdom?comment=1742"]NB Shinichi confirmed that RB's do generally block nightkills at DBS's home site. Again I think this is NAI at all. But just trying to make sure the record is straight.
really? here: "Role-blocker - Each Night, the Role-blocker can choose a player. That player will be prevented from using their Night choice, if they have one. Role-blocker has been known to be a Town role as well as a mafia role."
it wouldn't be "if they have one" if it didn't refer to the ability and not role itself, since mafia always have their factional kill.
In closed I atleast make it so roleblockers stop night kills, idk aobut everyone else.
Huh? That's not what I was asking for - I was asking to see who said that the flips are no-reveal.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
We will come back to you Day 3 if you survive. Give me a scum head on a plater today and I still don't think ISO is scum. I'm going to assume you guys are T v T for now.
I have to redirect my efforts.
Okay...
Junpei, Town Neighbourizer.
Passive Ability name: Morphogenetic Field
I claimed cause you asked not to counter claim you, since I am not the same as you.
Woah where and how did you come to the conclusion I would betray anyone? You must not know me well enough because i would have chosen ally on atleast 90% of the game lmao. Idk what you take me for but when I play mafia unless I am scum I don't purposely put someone in harms way. If I cant prove your mafia I aint going to just needlessly betray people that just hurts town.
I still wanna know where you based this conclusion on, because I dont like be sold off as some ******** player.
As I expected but still.
Everyone claim if they targetted Person X->Everyone claims->Vote Person Y obviously signals some kind of watcher/tracker ability. The context obviously pointed to ONE of them. I just guessed the wrong one.
I voted you because it seemed obvious that she thought she caught you via investigate. And I wanted to put some pressure on you for that reason, and partially to gauge your reaction to said pressure. (Misunderstanding your role was NAI, but I think actually forgetting that you could have commited the mafia kill was probably +town. I did also like the apology at the end of the post where you clarified about the passive targeting.)
------------
I need to figure out why tom thinks Pheonix is scum. I'm not seeing it.
I'm not a huge fan of all the setupgaming in the post where he's voting me. Obviously I disagree that I'm scum, but hey that's life.
-------------------------
@Axel: Do you, like... want to know anything? You seem to be scumreading me but you seem to be doing so passively.
----------------------------
At some point I need to do more ISOs. Maybe when I get another day off.
I still think the possibility exists, thats all there is to it lol
Same concept in my last game, no one believe me that I hadnt roleblcked they just all assumed I used it without an justification as of why I couldn't or didnt want to use it. I even gave the exact reason as to why i choose not to use it no body cared lol.
Mafia still won nonetheless lol
Also my ability is passive, i don't have much control so in that sense its the same since the aiblities is the same but I just lack control.
Then we have #3869 with "too much focus to be worth pressuring" … "But what about Hillary's emails" comes to mind.
@Shinichi: What's your current read on me and why?
#3892, #3893: Because you WERE the key person instigating and pushing for CFDs and a GF lynch.
#3897 is arguing from perspective of WIFOM, i.e. a vacuous hypothesis. Certainly doesn't make me more comfortable about Az this game.
Like, my biggest ongoing concern at the moment is that I'm hooked on these issues I was feeling from a large part of D1:
* Azrael and Dawning conspire to mislynch if they can't safely achieve a No Lynch. At the last moment, they split to hide things.
* Dawning and Last make a lot of petulant (more Dawning, some Last) and defensive (more Last, some Dawning) posts about themselves and each other. This continues into D2.
* At first, Az's push on Iso seemed legit. But looking closer, especially over the later posts, a lot of it didn't really feel organic. It felt like Az was saying something he didn't completely believe.
Like, I have enough
fearrespect for Az to believe that this whole game is more likely an elaborate scumgame, especially given that I don't believe in his scumreads. Though most people would be likely to put at least 1 scum on that team, I think. Whether or not Az would have done that or gambled really hard on the power of WIFOM… Like, there's just too many instances where I run into choosing between WIFOM -> Town outcome or KILL IT WITH FIRE.Az - Terrifying Scum puppetmaster
One or both of these two are probably scum:
Dawning - Looks, smells, and quacks like scum.
Last - Looks, smells, and quacks like scum.
The question then comes up as to who the fourth person is. But the most important bit for me at this point is to hit one scum, so we can at least get a bit of a hint from that as to who the rest are. And in that vein, I think Az is our best choice, since if he's not scum, well, we have a suggested scum team from him, and he is a solid analyst as town... So that would be the first place to look.
lol
It's not a scum tell for you, but it's pretty silly. I don't suppose you'll take more word while living that none of those three are highly probable scum?
let's say you remove the possibility of a neutral from this.
if Dawn is town, who in Azrael/Shin is scum?
if Shin is town, who in Dawn/Azrael is scum?
if Azrael is town, who in Dawn/Shin is scum?
Dawn/Iso are both killing roles. do you think there's town/neutral, scum/town, or scum/neutral? where does Shinichi fit into all this? I'm starting to think there's better balance if it's town/neutral.
I'm not sure how you can think of my role as neutral though... I would be on the brink of death, while being up against informed/uninformed groups, before doing anything with my role - a suicidal neutral. if that was the case, I would surely have some kind of information I'm hiding from you all...and I wouldn't be going down easily because mafia will need me around. I don't see any of that happening.
[@Shinichi #4920]
there's no hypothetical since I'm addressing what I know to be the norm in fullclaiming. please tell me what other reasons there are to fullclaim so I can consider.
I fullclaimed since you said only partclaiming was scummy, and that was a good reason I can't refute. if my fullclaim later on had no impact on your decision, since you thought my 'claiming under fishy circumstances' is enough, why did you want to hear my fullclaim? it looks like you're admitting to rolefishing. being roleblocker didn't change your mind, and you only said it was a scummy role to justify/reinforce your vote on me...there was no questions in regards to the role pm. only Tom brought up the line about factional kills. I don't think you're a roleblocker.
"I still wanna know where you based this conclusion on, because I dont like be sold off as some ******** player."
you're the one who said you're a scummy player and will understand if you're lynched to prove that you're town-aligned [here]. so yes, I'm basing this conclusion on your words. you also know that my playstyle tends to be seen in a bad light, so you should reflect on your actions before calling me scum without a second thought.
[@Osie #4927]
"look, smell, quack like scum" = scum? why?
and it looks like your suspects are Azrael/Dawn/Last. mind explaining what we were achieving by openly supporting each other? in your perspective and words.
[@Terry #4905]
I've already claimed but they probably got lost in repetitions, at post #1721.
compression: roleblock
annihilation: vigilante
posts like these make me like you better for town. I really wonder if I should trust my gamestate reads or not...
then again, never trusting my reads is usually what goes wrong lolBe grateful, always."
guess I'll have to stick to this one. nicely convinced myself that he's scum.
Be grateful, always."
I was honestly so sure Shin was gunna betray me. Like my plan was never to betray everyone, I only originally stated it to see how people would react. Lets be honest here, would anyone have even allied me except maybe Azreal, which I believed at the time was possible trying to pocket me, but we also both agreed that Grape looked scummy, so I looked over that possibility…
Night 1
(Betray/Betray)
In this scenario, if I used my ability I would be left with 2 BP. Again not as bad as having 1, but still, I felt like I’d be stuck in a choke hold…
Night 2
(Betray/Ally)
My partner manages to get me to ally, and betrays me. Again If I had used my ability I’d be dead, and again, almost everyone would still betray me at this point. In this outcome regardless if I had used my ability, it would be hard to prove if my partner was scum or town, because everyone wanted me dead anyways
(Ally/Ally)
We both live happily ever after and I use my ability.
Night 1
(Ally/Betray)
I use my ability, still good, but I was very doubtful this would happen…
Night 2
I am able to use my ability however, going into even a few nights, as long as I keep allying and no one betrays, which I am happy to do
“Well why don’t you look less scummy then” Thanks for the advice, brain…
I left the scenarios out that were most likely not gunna happen...
I mean if your looking for super townie reasons for why I didnt use my ability, then you wont find them, is my selfishness scummy, maybe? I kinda just do w/e I feel like... lol
Also I was afraid of people using my own ability against me, know one had to believe me, and everyone wanted me out of their PoE
let's not forget, you flipped scum there even if you told the truth.
nobody has to believe what anyone says about their role. you also don't believe what I say about my role.
it's the behavior you should focus on. I want to see you argue your way out in terms of behavior, since I've been quite informative outside of the claiming mess - if that's your only reason to have me lynched, it shows you're aiming to lynch anyone so long as they aren't scum.
Be grateful, always."
lynching a claimed doc is a bad idea either way. he's claimed on similar grounds as I did, to avoid any EoD panic, so I would think that is town-motivated. don't get stuck in the Azrael/Iso death trap.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
top suspect in that world is osi
and if he was town with scum az, i think one of az's buddies would have probably voted him with me? idk that was the idea of the vote anyway. maybe didnt leave it long enough yes. dawning.
i think i alluded to this before but between interactions and roles this game really feels like a puzzle, more so than usual even, and i feel like i just need a corner piece/scumflip and everything will start falling into place. like i dont want to setup game too much, or make too many pre flip associations. but that's whats really coming to me when i think about this game. and it ought to make it solvable.
i kinda just want to go back to day 1 wagons
think thats an all town wagon on iso. maybe axel i guess but i just have so many positive feelings
could definitely be scum on the whisper wagon/not voting. phoenix>megs>>>kaba>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>lngrr
but theres probaby 2 or more on grape
kj/osi not really a thing
iso/az neither
shin/dawning probably not
iso>kj>osi>>dawning>>>>>az>whisper>shin>>>>>joe
rainbow wall:
jenna/lngrr
axel/joe
whisper/kaba/shin
dawning/az
phoenix/osi/cyth
iso/kj
jenna town tracker. i actually ended up really liking the way she claimed. someone said her role was too powerful but between the bp game and maybe phoenix's role thats a false catch if hes town and the possibility of an unassigned kill (especially if kjscum) and maybe some other things we dont need to talk about right now it seems balanced.
lngrr's role isnt as important but his reaction to pressure was town af, especially compared to low fantasy where he just sort of folded like a cheap card table, especially in the face of atpg.
axel ive had one or two issues with, especially if iso/az end up being town, but a lot more positive pings. hes just thinking about things in a really townie way.
joe... idk what to do with joe really but he really ******* believes what hes saying
whisper ive been feeling better about as the day goes on. like, yeah he doesnt really seem to know whats happened in this game despite being 10% of the posts in it. but i think the word ive seen to describe him that felt viscerally right was "guileless". his reactions are consistent. doesnt matter who says a thing, what he thought of that person before. its just reacting.
kaba is still not a big part of the game but hes had some opinions i dug and he looks kinda townie
shin i would have higher but i dont really understand his setup gaming/lack thereof wrt dawning/az
dawning is probably still neutral tbh. could be scum i guess.
az has pinged me a couple times. not lynching a doctor claim though.
phoenix probably just killed dv. looks townie though.
osi is sitting back letting town devour itself.
cyth's slot keeps fitting on teams and not doing townie things.
iso chose a scumteam because he was pressured to do so, then isnt taking into account any new evidence really. the thing i (and az) talked about earlier where town iso has this constantly changing worldview based on new evidence and yes he has a tendency to tunnel regardless of alignment once he thinks hes right/can feasibly claim to think hes right but i just... dont think the process is there here.
kj was just ready to vote whoever jenna did with no critical thinking. i dont buy someone as wishy washy/considerate as town killjoy not reading the claim post.
I just think it's best we move on from the Azrael/Iso focus. if Azrael is doc he might not survive the Night, or maybe he will...to be set up as "best lynch for the Day". who else do you think we should focus on? I don't mind a lynch on Osie, but Shinichi is a possible roleblocker who could interfere with our abilities (and my roleblocking ability is activated), so it's best to sort and lynch one of us first. roleblocking will be detrimental towards the end, especially for scum.
Be grateful, always."
I appreciate the effort and it is good for town to have a ready document to check if scum lie later.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
this is the closest I could find:
Be grateful, always."
Iso/Dawn - killing
Dawn/Shin - manipulative
Iso vs Dawn:
2 killing roles have better balance in being town/neutral. Dawn is neutral at worst.
Dawn vs Shin:
Dawn is neutral at worst. 2 roleblockers on the side of town is unbalanced. Shin has the possibility of being scum.
Be grateful, always."
I think Az confirmed that at least one of the killing roles has to be legit.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
if there is a serial killer, why was there only 1 kill? we can argue that I only kill when under threat as a low-powered neutral. the extra killing and manipulative roles apart from mine (hypothetically neutral), makes this extremely town-sided.
if one of Shin/Iso are scum, which is it most likely to be? I'm thinking Shin, because a killing role is too obviously scummy. even if you try to argue that both Shin/Iso are town, and Dawn is neutral, I don't see how an extra protective (doctor) would lose out. town should have more protective than killing/manipulative roles - in light of that, Azrael is town and 1 of Iso/Shin is scum.
Be grateful, always."
On modgaming alone, I think Iso's ability is more likely to be scum. Scum who can take out an extra person is pretty strong, but if they have to "earn" it by playing townie, then it is more fair. Hm. Also, town having two high BP count abilities is probably unlikely? My ability only makes sense if scum have a high BP ability they want to turn on.
But all that said, I don't think an Iso lynch makes sense, and here's why. Az claimed doctor. If he is dead tomorrow, we can determine his alignment and go from there. If he isn't dead, then we explore why. Either way, Az's info should help us figure out Iso. I am giving some benefit of the doubt here that Iso does more analyzing, but D2 seems weird.
That said, not sure who our best lynch is now. Probably need to reread Phoenix, as Occams Razor says he is probably the killer.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
If Pheronix is town, at least one of Tom/LnGrrR is scum.
I disagree that Pheonix is scum by Occum's Razor. Tracks give very limited info, and I have a townread on him. I liked his reaction to Jenna's claim
* left is shading.
* right is buddying/positive.
* fluff isn't counted.
* fast reading sessions.
Dawn
-------------------------------------------------|---
Osie
----------|-------
Last
-------------|-
LnG
---------|---
Azrael
-----|--
Jenna
-----|-
Tom
----|-
Phoenix
--|---
Iso
--|---
Axel
---|-
Killjoy
--|--
Terry
--|-
Kabazame
-|-
Cyth
-|-
list of posts that don't fit in anywhere:
#531: ???
#801: ???
#856: ???
#864: ???
#962: susp
#1191: susp
#1200: ???
#1490: ???
#1505: ???
#1726: susp
#1733: susp
#1736: ???
#1840: susp
#1842: susp
#1846: ???
#1866: ???
#1883: susp
#1978: AtE
#2235: "Also I am still reading your posts tho they make me wish i could double vote you at times lol." //stops here
* plenty of negatives between Shin/Last for him to even choose Ally. [kinda feels like he threw a tantrum by Allying to scumread Last next Day]
* Osie/Shin is pretty vague, but I think they aren't aligned. Osie probs town.
* Axel/Terry haven't got much interactions.
* possible team: Iso/Phoenix/Killjoy/Kaba/Cyth.
* lots of fluff. plenty of early references to meta.
* nothing that refers to himself as possible roleblocker, even when someone claimed it.
* focused on discrediting/supporting certain players from the start...reeks of a hidden agenda.
Be grateful, always."
might be best to focus on Shin. by interaction, I think Shin's our best option...informative as well. IF he flips town, I volunteer to be lynched next. the tunnel just doesn't look town either way I look at it. Phoenix could be scum, but I'm not sure if the ability is real or not....in the offchance that it is, it's bad for us. I haven't outruled Iso yet..but I'd rather not focus on that.
@Last
please tell me what inspires you to trust Iso so much. I'd say Azrael is the most transparent about his alignment while we're all trying to play martyr to "prove our sincerity". I wanna hear what exactly makes you want Azrael lynched. are you just paranoid? or is it his forceful tone? what you think of as 'controlling' is earned - it isn't just a gamestate or the mysterious minority that favors him, but those real cases and thoughts he make.
and uhh.. my sleeptime got messed up lol
Be grateful, always."
i agree his reaction was fine. and i think hes townie too.
but the simplest explanation for being tracked to dv last night is definitely that he just... killed dv
im not even trying to lynch him. im frankly terrified of this turning into a no flip game. he should just be betrayed from now until forever
I don't know if you understand what Occam's Razor is. It's the "simplest" explanation. The simplest explanation for Jenna's result is that Phoenix killed D_V. The more complicated explanation is that he has a REALLY weird role, that passively visits people so flips are revealed. I mean, it's not that complicated:
1) D_V died.
2) Jenna tracked Phoenix, who visited D_V.
There may be limited info, but it's not THAT hard to work out the simplest answer.
I thought his response was pretty townie too, hence the unvote. Did you not know what Occam's Razor is, or are you just trying to twist words to fit an argument?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
It mostly comes down to reading a lot of posts that appear defensive or anti-town. Either one of you two could individually be town, but the idea of either of you paired with Az or all three as a group is nagging at me. In regards to open support, I don't have enough time at the moment, but I promise to go into more detail beyond "the power of WIFOM" this afternoon/evening.
If Az isn't scum, then I am less suspicious about either of you two, though you are not out of the picture as potential scum.
Re: Az - I want to lynch you because I don't trust you enough. If you flip town, then I will trust those reads more. If not, then I won't.
Re: Tom - Sorry I got busy with school.
link to prev answer, but nevermind...I found it!
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
I hope you realize that if you ever switch over your alignment to neutral, I will lynch you with all the fury on earth... Just saying, you know how I feel about neutral claims... and if you thought two roleblockers was bad from as soon as Shin claimed, then why wait so long to suggest this... and again your post last night for me was wierd, why all of a sudden are you so worried, that both Az and Iso will flip town/town, or town/tpr
1. Someone was saved, but since we can probably conclude that no town protective abilities could be used last night, its safe to assume that didnt happen.. but again its wierd that Bur would make it so know town protectives could use their ability day 1, Which is why I am more inclined to believe Shin is town.
2. Tpr just didnt make a kill, I mean would you make a kill day 1, and risk letting everyone know, a 2nd killing party existed.
3. I think Az/Iso/Shin all have equal chance of being scum, with Iso having a high chance of being tpr, but what would be the point of a tpr with vengeance, and who would he possibly win with? unless hes some Jester role...
Where is this correlation coming from, and what is Occum's Razor? and what specifically did you like about Pheonix's reaction
again idk where these assumptions are coming from, At this point I trust Iso/Az very little, and with just their roles and their actions alone, I would lynch a venge over a doctor, Az would be sorted out in the coming days anyways, if he wasnt scum... and ya maybe I am a little paranoid
Same with above, what did you like about his reaction, and if their was anything you didnt like, what was it?
and I agree that the most simplistic assumption would be that Phoenix killed D.V. and +1, I am also afraid of this becoming a flipless game, betray forever lmao...
I don't think Shin is town. when checking his ISO, I've noticed he challenged my townread on him few times, as if implying that I was wrong. a lot of his posts have an agenda behind it, as if he has a goal from start to finish. he entered this game with a goal, and has been pushing it from the start. whatever his goal is, it's pro-mafia.
so you admit it. don't be paranoid then. I'd go for Shin, since I'm more sure about him than I am about Iso. if Iso is a neutral, we would be wasting a lynch on pre-flip association. Dawn/Shin has a bigger chance of hitting scum. and yes, I don't mind being a countertrain, so long as its against Shin. I'm kind of worried this is a tunnel, but checking back I don't think it is. I'm willing to be lynched if it'll secure his lynch.
Be grateful, always."
How does my quote even correlate with you being sure of Shins alignment, and dont be am ambiguous, if you think Shin has some master plan then spit it out? If its just to tunnel you all game, then its a ***** plan...
and what beyond a doubt makes you so sure that Azreal will flip town?
how did he challenge your town read tho? I think that context actually matters...
1) all scum are on Grape... no possible way, cause they would be ok with a no lynch
2) some are on grape, and some are else where.... maybe 2/2?
but my point is, we werent lynching grape for information, we were lynching him cause we thought he was scum... so again I dont get what your point is, when bringing up the grape lynch again...
I'd appreciate if everyone could answer my questions regarding Iso/Az
Does anyone believe they're both town, legitimately believe it, not just "it could be possible"?
Can you explain to me how it makes sense for me to be a Neutral...when Neutrals normally need to survive to win...and my ability only works when I die?
What are you hypothesizing my win condition could possibly be as a Neutral with that ability?
Well, this is a complete and utter lie.
Huh? That's not what I was asking for - I was asking to see who said that the flips are no-reveal.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Draft my cube! (630 cards)