I know. added that extra line there. clearing players based off flips is generally a bad idea. like if Dawn/Shin flipped scum, doesn't mean the other one is cleared. I'm gonna rely on my vigshot for that (and die or get rb in the process).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Iso, do you think Jenna is still scum? Do you believe her claim?
I think I do believe her, which is unfortunate, because I still want to lynch her for not actually doing anything useful. Subsequently, I think Phoenix's claim probably makes him scum. I also think that she's not thinking critically because, as Axelrod said, if Phoenix is falseclaiming, how does that stop him from being the one that killed DV?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You understand we can only lynch one person per Day, yes?
you're basically telling us to clear you if he flips scum. towncred is fake. what IF Azrael flips town? you can't say everyone makes mistakes. even if you say you will take responsibility for this lynch I won't buy that.
I've seen scum pull this ***** of "I didn't know, so I was wrong" and continue mislynching. I swear whatever Azrael flips and I'm not sure what he flips, I'll be keeping an eye on you. you haven't given out a valid or well thought-out case on Azrael, but just basing it off "I'm right" which can eaaasily be refuted later as a mistake. no way. Azrael makes real cases and thoughts. you're just pushing the "I'm right" at everyone's face. where are your cases?
don't think I'll be joining this wagon that might be excused as a 'big mistake', or used to further your "I'm right" agenda. either way this goes, you're set on controlling the town. bad idea. you don't have a correct scumread as of yet~ (like on Jenna/Last)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
You understand we can only lynch one person per Day, yes?
you're basically telling us to clear you if he flips scum. towncred is fake. what IF Azrael flips town? you can't say everyone makes mistakes. even if you say you will take responsibility for this lynch I won't buy that.
I've seen scum pull this ***** of "I didn't know, so I was wrong" and continue mislynching. I swear whatever Azrael flips and I'm not sure what he flips, I'll be keeping an eye on you. you haven't given out a valid or well thought-out case on Azrael, but just basing it off "I'm right" which can eaaasily be refuted later as a mistake. no way. Azrael makes real cases and thoughts. you're just pushing the "I'm right" at everyone's face. where are your cases?
don't think I'll be joining this wagon that might be excused as a 'big mistake', or used to further your "I'm right" agenda. either way this goes, you're set on controlling the town. bad idea. you don't have a correct scumread as of yet~ (like on Jenna/Last)
wait how can you say that I cant possibly flip scum? or even jenna? me I understand, but Jenna? and this is usually something I say... you are starting to give off weird vibes now...
Carlos: Think you can fit in there, Akane? Akane: Uh... no. There's no way. Junpei: Someone likes cake too much. Akane: Oh, I know! Let's cut off Junpei's arm! He should be able to fit through then.
wait how can you say that I cant possibly flip scum? or even jenna? me I understand, but Jenna? and this is usually something I say... you are starting to give off weird vibes now...
please. Iso was saying both Jenna/Last are scum, not just one of them.
do you agree with that?
don't rely on pre-flip association.
if you think we're just gonna pair people up and flip pancakes, that's just bad if not worse.
I've seen how bad pre-flip association is, so I won't be using it to clear someone. unless proven with like, a parity cop (and we sort them out lol), I won't townclear someone.
It doesnt even feel like you are trying to defend Azrael is just kinda feels like you dont like Iso voting him... lol
I can't defend Azrael if I'm not sure what his alignment is. still don't like Iso's vote, or the way he wants us to sheep it. why do you like his vote? .-.
Phoenix reread commencing. For those of you watching from home, I mark this as something like my 12th PBPA. In a game like this, where the town is split up, people should likely be less afraid of power-wolfing, and more concerned with the players who are free to sit back without seriously exerting themselves. Look, the scum aren't dumb. They know they can sit back, stay camouflaged, stay incognito, and the town's going to struggle to punish them for it. Instead you're going to keep slamming the nails that stick out, and try to take positions. If you guys want to win this game, you need to change that.
Quote from Phoenix »
Frankly I don't think you're town, even with that claim. I tried very hard to look elsewhere and the thread is dominated by your scumminess, and I'm done imagining a world where I'm okay with you staying alive to prove a role that you can't even explain or keep straight. If you're town, then good job playing like scum and screwing up this day one. Really, bravo, you've made a mess of things. I just don't think you are.
Quote from Phoenix »
I'm having a really hard time seeing Dawning as town in any scenario here. From the claim fiasco to proposing her own lynch as great for information. I get the feeling that it's all just a giant mess of anything she can throw into the thread; just blatantly being scummy because "why would anyone act like this as scum" is an effective defense.
Vote Dawning
Claim or not, I don't think I can properly analyze anything without seeing her alignment.
Quote from Phoenix »
@Iso: Dead horse or not, scum is scum, and a Last Whisper lynch is the lynch to hit scum. Maybe Jenna's scum and just completely disengaged, but there is no info from her lynch, nothing we get from either way she comes up.
@Azreal: I'm gonna have to disagree with your assessment of Last whisper and Grapefruit. I think you're trying to get fancy with those reads and not actually reading them for what they are.
-Last has been objectively scummy, he hasn't been consistent in his own reads, and he's used misinformation to push lynches and then not reevaluated when he was corrected. If he actually believed that Dawn/Iso had been a dichotomy, he would have pushed that instead of letting everything else go on around it. Look at the post he made when he noted the dichotomy down, he wasn't even hard pushing iso just using it to white knight dawning; speaking of which, his progression on dawning has been miserably bad, to the point where he acts like she's strong town but would still be willing to lynch her! I strongly believe that he's easily our best lynch for today.
-As far as grapefruit is concerned, look at the reasons people are willing to lynch him; there is no really consistent train of thought as to why he should be lynched, there are several citations of his meta saying "he's slightly more this," or "not as much like that," but nothing substantial. And, the posts you've pointed to and said "these make him scum" look like townie posts to me.
@Osie: Give me your thoughts on Iso/Azreal with a little more depth; you think they are oppositely aligned, why? What do you think of them if Jenna was to be revealed as scum? If town? What do you think the odds are that Jenna is scum?
@Jenna: Why are you voting for No Lynch? Who do you think is scum on your wagon? Can you post your thoughts on your strongest reads either way?
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I'm going to echo some of what Axelrod said; while Dawning and Iso are not a dichotomy, I'm very leery of multiple killing roles being town aligned.
I'm ready to see a night phase because we've had an overload of conversation with no hard facts and I don't want to dig back until I've got something solid. My preferred lynch is last whisper, and of the other viable wagons at this point, Jenna would be an okay lynch to avoid a no lynch, and I'm avidly against this grapefruit lynch and would like people on it to give me a case on him.
^ Phoenix town posts.
While I think that the role working as described is a bit unconventional, I'm going with my behavioral read over the mod-gaming. It's pretty easy to chart Phoenix's thought process, here.
Terry's interaction with Jenna is not something I'd expect to see if they're aligned. But I don't think Jenna's call-out on Phoenix and avoidance of the so-called trap is clearing for her. Right now, I'm pretty sure I need to keep expanding my reread/recheck list, maybe with Shinichi next. Feel like I'm still one or two slots short of tinkering into something more correct. Jenna, Iso, Tom - Terry is off my list from that Jenna interaction.
I doubt they're having an easy time since this game activity is over the top.
I do agree however the players should work together more, but your way of thinking hasnt helped either. How you expected people to just leave your claim alone, or how you just expected people to just accept the vig claim. Or how you expect people to read last based on the meta you've shown.
Dislike this bit where Shin comments that he thinks the scum aren't having an easy time.
If he's town, what's his basis for that? Is he feeling the strain of having to stay convincing while being that active? If you'd have asked me, I'd have thought that the scum were mostly having an easy time stalling us out and letting us just mill around aimlessly, but having said that, I can see how one of the more active scum posters might feel that way. But IDK that that's the kind of observation that naturally occurs to a town player.
Quote from shin »
Ok this I unerstand, but i still the possibility exists I mean ive seem scum grave diggers before.
*Frowns* Some weak role analysis shade here.
If you're going to engage in mod-gaming, you should at least say something more obnoxious and useful like "in what world are there two town roleblockers?" If you're going to go there.
Quote from shin »
Weird that you bring this up, yet were ok with me claiming in the first place. So i guess comparing your crap of a claim to my claim prob makes you feel better. I also assume since my role isnt as provable as yours, you're ok lynching me. Am I right
Few different times Shin has seemed a tad too preoccupied with defending fairly weak attacks. Minor issue only.
Quote from shin »
Nothing honestly could stop him from being mafia, I mean this role is the perfect claim to give to a scum aligned player.
Well, that's a serious exaggeration. The "perfect role" for scum?
Quote from shin »
How so? If I was desperate I would have pushed him during the entirety of day 1 I would not have started now. No its not in towns best interests its in your best interests because thats your flawed way of saying this guy must be scum he only does this when hes scum.
Where did i imply my skill level was better?
Not great conviction in the defense here. That's a tone read, not a complaint about the content, which is unremarkable.
Quote from shin »
Want me to full claim ill do it right now.
Also no i clarified I misread my own role the same as ISO I thought the (4) was X shots I didnt realize the (4) was the cost of ab to use my ability.
Hmm. This makes the claim timing far more understandable.
Quote from shin »
Meta is flawed, so no reason I would ever buy the arguement. Literally just spent an hour talking to someone about the flaws of meta gaming and we both agreed that its a screwed up way to play.
Ik my brother personality wise I know he thinks and I know why he does his actions. As scum he makes stupid stupid mistakes like fake claiming a dumb role lol. Does not mean i should read my brother as scu everytime he claims an over the top role like @DBS expects me too.
Focus at this point in time is on plentiful back and forth on meta with DBS here, little else.
Quote from shin »
Are you counter claiming her? If not then calm your ***** lol. Most people considered a townie who doesnt claim when on the verge of being lynched as game throwing. So to compare that to Jenna actions is not right.
If you think shes distracting us, then what about DBS she literally made the town run around for 5 days tring to figure out her full claim.
Here's my issue with the mentality here. He's not upset about any of Jenna's legitimate issues here - he's simply pointing to another player who he thinks has done something worse. There are reasons, as town, to not be happy with either. But the mentality here is straight deflection, from one target, to another. Particularly if DBS is town and Shin and Jenna are aligned per current theory, dislike.
Quote from shin »
I love this post from iso, i honestly trust him enough plus my own read on az to say we should just lock a lynch on him.
Undue certainty tell. And undue trust. I have no idea what Iso has done to inspire that much trust from Shin. Other than tell him what to do in scum-chat, anyways.
Quote from shin »
Guess you must be scum then
Guess? That's not town phrasing.
Quote from shin »
And here you go being scummy again lol, was waiting for a post like this. Your literally turning all the fault onto GF when you literally were one of the people that pushed for his lynch harder? This what happens when people rely on claims. What do you think would have happened if he claimed? Did you just want to keep pushing people till a mass claim happened you make no sense.
Also Gf saw no reason to claim don't make it look like thats some kind of playstyle difference, you could have chosen to not claim guess what though u would have prob been lynched as well.
Yet again putting yourself as something other than town is scummy. How did it help them get cop? Find in the thread where DV soft claimed cop? Or even remotely bread crumbed it, then you can tell me that his death was on us.
Btw i don't even remotely believe you were betrayed.
Vote: Dawn
Believe 2 of the scum are you and azreal.
Also since when do u town shame?
Shin laying into DBS hard, after she complains about GF's refusal to claim.
I have a real hard time grokking this as a town mentality, also. I know my own reaction, 100%, after seeing GF flip was a mental facepalm exactly in line with DBS' sentiments. He should have claimed.
Nothing wrong with DBS's reaction here, she's just a convenient target for the scum, same as me, because you can point a finger at her easily for her role in the CFD. And then just hope everyone ignores all her town tells. Unified scum strategy here, with Iso.
Quote from Shin »
@bold thats pure wine if I say so myself
-So you dont think we should be looking at you or DBS for basically leading the train on gf?
-This theory of yourselfs is super hypothetical, also how do you know LW is a mislycnh?
There's wine, and then there's common sense. If you have a high-value target as scum like a town-aligned iso, you take it. I didn't take it. That means something. Whatever credit you could expect to get from that move, is outweighed by taking Iso off the table if he were actually town. But given his total absence of concern with scum-hunting...
And then he pushes the lynch on DBS again, too. Pure chain mislynch mining move.
I've got 22 more pages of this to go, if you guys want me to. But my mind is pretty well made up.
Scum team is Iso, Shin, Jenna, Tom.
And oh, by the way, I'm the doctor. Kill Iso first. vote Iso
Quote from shinichi »
I doubt they're having an easy time since this game activity is over the top.
I do agree however the players should work together more, but your way of thinking hasnt helped either. How you expected people to just leave your claim alone, or how you just expected people to just accept the vig claim. Or how you expect people to read last based on the meta you've shown.
Dislike this bit where Shin comments that he thinks the scum aren't having an easy time.
If he's town, what's his basis for that? Is he feeling the strain of having to stay convincing while being that active? If you'd have asked me, I'd have thought that the scum were mostly having an easy time stalling us out and letting us just mill around aimlessly, but having said that, I can see how one of the more active scum posters might feel that way. But IDK that that's the kind of observation that naturally occurs to a town player.
Quote from shin »
Ok this I unerstand, but i still the possibility exists I mean ive seem scum grave diggers before.
*Frowns* Some weak role analysis shade here.
If you're going to engage in mod-gaming, you should at least say something more obnoxious and useful like "in what world are there two town roleblockers?" If you're going to go there.
Quote from shin »
Weird that you bring this up, yet were ok with me claiming in the first place. So i guess comparing your crap of a claim to my claim prob makes you feel better. I also assume since my role isnt as provable as yours, you're ok lynching me. Am I right
Few different times Shin has seemed a tad too preoccupied with defending fairly weak attacks. Minor issue only.
Quote from shin »
Nothing honestly could stop him from being mafia, I mean this role is the perfect claim to give to a scum aligned player.
Well, that's a serious exaggeration. The "perfect role" for scum?
Quote from shin »
How so? If I was desperate I would have pushed him during the entirety of day 1 I would not have started now. No its not in towns best interests its in your best interests because thats your flawed way of saying this guy must be scum he only does this when hes scum.
Where did i imply my skill level was better?
Not great conviction in the defense here. That's a tone read, not a complaint about the content, which is unremarkable.
Quote from shin »
Want me to full claim ill do it right now.
Also no i clarified I misread my own role the same as ISO I thought the (4) was X shots I didnt realize the (4) was the cost of ab to use my ability.
Hmm. This makes the claim timing far more understandable.
Quote from shin »
Meta is flawed, so no reason I would ever buy the arguement. Literally just spent an hour talking to someone about the flaws of meta gaming and we both agreed that its a screwed up way to play.
Ik my brother personality wise I know he thinks and I know why he does his actions. As scum he makes stupid stupid mistakes like fake claiming a dumb role lol. Does not mean i should read my brother as scu everytime he claims an over the top role like @DBS expects me too.
Focus at this point in time is on plentiful back and forth on meta with DBS here, little else.
Quote from shin »
Are you counter claiming her? If not then calm your ***** lol. Most people considered a townie who doesnt claim when on the verge of being lynched as game throwing. So to compare that to Jenna actions is not right.
If you think shes distracting us, then what about DBS she literally made the town run around for 5 days tring to figure out her full claim.
Here's my issue with the mentality here. He's not upset about any of Jenna's legitimate issues here - he's simply pointing to another player who he thinks has done something worse. There are reasons, as town, to not be happy with either. But the mentality here is straight deflection, from one target, to another. Particularly if DBS is town and Shin and Jenna are aligned per current theory, dislike.
Quote from shin »
I love this post from iso, i honestly trust him enough plus my own read on az to say we should just lock a lynch on him.
Undue certainty tell. And undue trust. I have no idea what Iso has done to inspire that much trust from Shin. Other than tell him what to do in scum-chat, anyways.
Quote from shin »
Guess you must be scum then
Guess? That's not town phrasing.
Quote from shin »
And here you go being scummy again lol, was waiting for a post like this. Your literally turning all the fault onto GF when you literally were one of the people that pushed for his lynch harder? This what happens when people rely on claims. What do you think would have happened if he claimed? Did you just want to keep pushing people till a mass claim happened you make no sense.
Also Gf saw no reason to claim don't make it look like thats some kind of playstyle difference, you could have chosen to not claim guess what though u would have prob been lynched as well.
Yet again putting yourself as something other than town is scummy. How did it help them get cop? Find in the thread where DV soft claimed cop? Or even remotely bread crumbed it, then you can tell me that his death was on us.
Btw i don't even remotely believe you were betrayed.
Vote: Dawn
Believe 2 of the scum are you and azreal.
Also since when do u town shame?
Shin laying into DBS hard, after she complains about GF's refusal to claim.
I have a real hard time grokking this as a town mentality, also. I know my own reaction, 100%, after seeing GF flip was a mental facepalm exactly in line with DBS' sentiments. He should have claimed.
Nothing wrong with DBS's reaction here, she's just a convenient target for the scum, same as me, because you can point a finger at her easily for her role in the CFD. And then just hope everyone ignores all her town tells. Unified scum strategy here, with Iso.
Quote from Shin »
@bold thats pure wine if I say so myself
-So you dont think we should be looking at you or DBS for basically leading the train on gf?
-This theory of yourselfs is super hypothetical, also how do you know LW is a mislycnh?
There's wine, and then there's common sense. If you have a high-value target as scum like a town-aligned iso, you take it. I didn't take it. That means something. Whatever credit you could expect to get from that move, is outweighed by taking Iso off the table if he were actually town. But given his total absence of concern with scum-hunting...
And then he pushes the lynch on DBS again, too. Pure chain mislynch mining move.
I've got 22 more pages of this to go, if you guys want me to. But my mind is pretty well made up.
Scum team is Iso, Shin, Jenna, Tom.
And oh, by the way, I'm the doctor. Kill Iso first. vote: Iso *mic drop* Spectator thread, I'll see you soon.
WHY DID U HAVE TO SAY DOCTOR... and at the same time doctor can be a fake claim... with so many role blockers and a reviver it seems somewhat doubtful that you are the doctor...
In a game like this, where the town is split up, people should likely be less afraid of power-wolfing, and more concerned with the players who are free to sit back without seriously exerting themselves.
in my version...
town should be more concerned about their fellows, because the frustration will make town turn on each other as a means to sate their anger (hint: me) while the real scumteam sit back and watch.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
also you already claimed doctor, so spill the rest of the beans, I wanna compare your claim with everyone elses...
also your producing a lot of heat for being the doctor, if I was the a doctor, I would not give mafia a reason to target me, again using my own self meta would be crazy to justify a lynch, and ive seen mafia doctors... uggh im confused..
WHY DID U HAVE TO SAY DOCTOR... and at the same time doctor can be a fake claim... with so many role blockers and a reviver it seems somewhat doubtful that you are the doctor...
If I were lying, town can CC for a 1 for 1 trade. Presuming both RBers are town-aligned is a stretch, and Shin, if you believe him, says his RB can't affect the NK anyways. Reviver != doc. Even if you wonder if I'm lying, you still give the scum the choice of having me block the kill, or just taking me out.
in my version...
town should be more concerned about their fellows, because the frustration will make town turn on each other as a means to sate their anger (hint: me) while the real scumteam sit back and watch.
That too, to a lesser extent.
I'm pretty sure I've got at least 3/4 in that list now, possibly all 4. I've done six-page or more PBPAs on each player in the town at this point, for all players who have posted that much. So Cyth is really the only remaining null for me. Everyone else is pretty well divvied up.
I have a real hard time grokking this as a town mentality, also. I know my own reaction, 100%, after seeing GF flip was a mental facepalm exactly in line with DBS' sentiments. He should have claimed.
yess someone agrees!!!!
Scum team is Iso, Shin, Jenna, Tom.
And oh, by the way, I'm the doctor. Kill Iso first. vote: Iso *mic drop* Spectator thread, I'll see you soon.
lol. and great I get my suspects to roleblock. vigshot on em next. Shinichi is dead to me anyways.
also you already claimed doctor, so spill the rest of the beans, I wanna compare your claim with everyone elses...
also your producing a lot of heat for being the doctor, if I was the a doctor, I would not give mafia a reason to target me, again using my own self meta would be crazy to justify a lynch, and ive seen mafia doctors... uggh im confused..
it's easy to figure out. Azrael has done more than Iso has up to now. and really...do you think it's easy to be a doctor with BP restrictions?
also you already claimed doctor, so spill the rest of the beans, I wanna compare your claim with everyone elses...
Role name Diana
Flavor paraphrase about having murdered six people, no, miscount, actually six billion. (You know, nice, friendly sounding stuff.)
Then my text goes on to say I'm actually very mild, non-violent person and my *searches for synonyms* hospital skills will help me live through this. (HA! Because being the doctor totally doesn't make you a lightning rod)
Then some stuff about feeling a lot of pressure, not being adequate to meet the heavy demands on me, disliking myself because of that.
Abilities are 3 BP, -2 to doc. Since a couple of days ago I debated about lying and saying I have an additional ability where I can burn myself out to block the kill, but *shrug*, probably not believable by either alignment and I think I got the scum pinned down anyways, so whatever happens next, feels less critical at the moment.
I can agree on Iso/Shin so far. gonna try my version of interaction analysis on those two.
not sure about Jenna/Tom....
Idk... both Iso/Shin are in a wierd spot, they both pop in, and literally bring either nothing to the table, or the same ***** they've been saying for days... and I dont understand wth they are trying to accomplish if they are town...
and im willing to leave jenna/tom alone for today, unless I find some new information
Catchup, starting with #3736. This hops around a bit as I read things, mostly just train of thought ramblings. My internet situation is a little bizarre, so I loaded everything through post #4732 and then read it offline. That said, I'm going to try to hyperlink all the post numbers.
I don't think that #3738 comes from scum!Iso. I'm not 100% certain that Azrael is scum, although I'm inclined to believe so, but Iso looks very good this game.
#3745 is pure lousy defensiveness. This sort of post is the primary reason why I'm not enthused by Lastwhisper this game.
Okay, so in #3749, Lastwhisper is "still skeptical about everyone." In #3752 he thinks that Az and I are scum, but waffles on Az. In #3794, he suggests Az scum, Iso town, and Osie scum. In #3798 he has Az confusing, Osie scum. #3903 and #3920 reiterate Az neutral. In #3932, the readlist, Osie scum because of "not enough scumleans" Day 1. #3992 moves Terry down to scumlean.
That's… not a completely unreasonable progression. I was almost expecting to see some strange, unexplained flips, but most of that was reasonable.
In #3932, Last's read of Meg is bad. I will readily admit to the lightest of scumleans from AFK. But it's not this sort of vehement response. The comment about me is… weird. Like, I've gone into some detail on my reads, and I would think it would be clear from what I've posted what section of my reads is what I might call "POE."
#3932: "Im willing to believe [Shinichi's] town" #4004: (Re: Shinichi) "I never said you were town"
I actually like #4027. That could be legit frustration.
Unvote, though still concerned.
Re: Az #3860 - Eww… Reeks of sanctimonious manipulation and a bad argument.
On the other hand, Az's claim (skipping ahead a bit) is conceivable. But not strictly legit enough to clear him, especially given who it is.
Vote: Azrael
Re: Dawn #3861 - I like how Lastwhisper has no concern about Dawn not coming out with scumreads here, but when I put people in null or say that I don't have definite scum, it's a travesty. Also, this post includes some very weird reasons, but I'll think about that further later.
Re: LnGrrrR #3863 - Yeah, there's no way that Az is mason.
Re: Dawn #3867, #3869 - What does this even mean? This is so bad. I really hope that there's at least 1 scum in Dawningbluesky and Lastwhisper, because 2 experienced, but scummy-looking town players defending each other vehemently over the whole game would be mind-bogglingly ridiculous.
also you already claimed doctor, so spill the rest of the beans, I wanna compare your claim with everyone elses...
Role name Diana
Flavor paraphrase about having murdered six people, no, miscount, actually six billion. (You know, nice, friendly sounding stuff.)
Then my text goes on to say I'm actually very mild, non-violent person and my *searches for synonyms* hospital skills will help me live through this. (HA! Because being the doctor totally doesn't make you a lightning rod)
Then some stuff about feeling a lot of pressure, not being adequate to meet the heavy demands on me, disliking myself because of that.
Abilities are 3 BP, -2 to doc. Since a couple of days ago I debated about lying and saying I have an additional ability where I can burn myself out to block the kill, but *shrug*, probably not believable by either alignment and I think I got the scum pinned down anyways, so whatever happens next, feels less critical at the moment.
It's a fake claim guys, no role name with it, everyone has a role name. Let's lynch the hell out of Az.
I can agree on Iso/Shin so far. gonna try my version of interaction analysis on those two.
not sure about Jenna/Tom....
Idk... both Iso/Shin are in a wierd spot, they both pop in, and literally bring either nothing to the table, or the same ***** they've been saying for days... and I dont understand wth they are trying to accomplish if they are town...
and im willing to leave jenna/tom alone for today, unless I find some new information
also you already claimed doctor, so spill the rest of the beans, I wanna compare your claim with everyone elses...
Role name Diana
Flavor paraphrase about having murdered six people, no, miscount, actually six billion. (You know, nice, friendly sounding stuff.)
Then my text goes on to say I'm actually very mild, non-violent person and my *searches for synonyms* hospital skills will help me live through this. (HA! Because being the doctor totally doesn't make you a lightning rod)
Then some stuff about feeling a lot of pressure, not being adequate to meet the heavy demands on me, disliking myself because of that.
Abilities are 3 BP, -2 to doc. Since a couple of days ago I debated about lying and saying I have an additional ability where I can burn myself out to block the kill, but *shrug*, probably not believable by either alignment and I think I got the scum pinned down anyways, so whatever happens next, feels less critical at the moment.
It's a fake claim guys, no role name with it, everyone has a role name. Let's lynch the hell out of Az.
role name
flavor paraphrase
then my text
then some stuff
abilities
"role name" diana isn't the literal thing, it's just a wording. I don't think we should lynch the doc, unless counterclaimed.
Re: Dawn #3861 - I like how Lastwhisper has no concern about Dawn not coming out with scumreads here, but when I put people in null or say that I don't have definite scum, it's a travesty. Also, this post includes some very weird reasons, but I'll think about that further later.
Re: Dawn #3867, #3869 - What does this even mean? This is so bad. I really hope that there's at least 1 scum in Dawningbluesky and Lastwhisper, because 2 experienced, but scummy-looking town players defending each other vehemently over the whole game would be mind-bogglingly ridiculous.
those posts are explained later, since they're part of a thought process. and no, I don't think Last is scum.
"2 experienced, but scummy-looking town players defending each other vehemently over the whole game would be mind-bogglingly ridiculous"
shading us like that is just...bad.
Iso/Shin = scum
Osie/Terry = maybe
Cyth = idk
one of these could be tpr, the rest is scum.
I can bend with the townlean on Terry since tied trains are harder to read.
Tom/Jenna = just in case
hmm I think Terry was referring to titles.. welp
@LnG @Jenna @Azrael
what are the titles of your roles (e.g. mine is daredevil)
#3803 Yeah, the only thing I can think of here is that Last's claim was just ambiguous enough to potentially allow him to pass any amount of BP at any time.
The reactive bullying from Iso in #3813 is less than helpful.
#3828: THIS IS THE SONG, THEMED ABOUT THE SCUMLORD. THIS IS THE FIGHT, TOWN VERSUS AZ! HE TRIED TO KILL US WITH A FORKLIFT! OLÉ!
Phoenix - townish. questioned my asking for self-meta, in what I'd consider a positive way. he could've Allied with me for towncred, noted.
Iso - townish. counterclaiming and retracting, and the interaction after that felt town. not sure about the 'wet noodle' though.
Kabazame - townish. the lurk vote on Last was bad, but everything else is fine.
Megiddo - no clue
Osie - no clue
Axelrod - I get this nagging feeling he's scum. was distant while the Grapefruit lynch was going through.
Jenna - will lynch. points on Grapefruit(conf town) were valid, but the push felt agenda-orientated.
Votes from Dawning between then and the next readlist: Jenna #3862 "best choice", Osie #4015 "next best thing"
no idea
Last - townish
Jenna - townish
Axelrod - townish
Phoenix - townish
Kabazame - townish
Megs!Cythare
Shinichi
scumlean
Iso
Osie
Votes from Dawning between then and the next readlist: Shinichi #4479 (after lots of buildup), Osie #4559 "back to better things"
OH HEY, #4414 actually includes a somewhat reasonable partial argument for why Dawning might scumread me. It's wrong, and why she couldn't say that in response to being asked, no clue. But it's at least something.
Dawning's nasty self-vindication has been appalling since it first came up in day 1.
PoE stays at Osie
Shinichi is..... no words
Axel is still fishy
Azrael is idk
Cythare is town according to Iso (who is wrong about Last/Jenna??)
Phoenix/Jenna/Last coming off as town
----------
pre-flip associations so far:
Azrael/Iso
Shin/Dawn
not sure about pre-flips since I've been through that, and both were town...
but there should be at least 1 out of the 4 listed, right?
Votes from Dawning between then and the next readlist: Iso #4702 "Because Az is probably town"
Random thoughts:
I'm not happy at the number of claims flying around over the course of the thread so far. We're only on day 2 and more than half of people have been revealed.
Axelrod is THE GOATEST GOAT TO EVER GOAT.
More to come. (Note to self: Starting back up at 3863 tomorrow evening.)
*to be on the safe side, in case Iso flips scum, I still won't clear Azrael lol. better safe than sorry.
i think the only thing pointing to them being together is their mutual push on me and jenna. but they both seem like they would rather lynch each other.
maybe its a little noteworthy that iso's original push on az (and me) fell apart entirely if jenna isnt scum, but it did transition into more about az's push on him.
eh i think iso/az is pretty unlikely
Full game iso complete. Results compute as follows, most townish top, least descending:
Town
Az
realstinky – some weirdish role speculation and some weird piling on on last whisper. Not sure.
Has a good read on LW’s post being scummish though. I like it.
jenna- stylistically weird, but town, esp if truly new. Shinichi- they allege a townslip. I’m not so sure. Scum would have reason to be confident of that, also people who knew the source material null
Phoenix fire- no pings, decent attitude.
Tom – He’s after lngrrr. Hmm. Hard. And he’s probably right. Good tone throughout.
Dawn- doesn’t mind claiming. Good mindset. Shinichi – no pings. Seems decently open.
DV– Has stupid backup role. +Town. No pingage.
Axelrod – meh. No pings.
Scum or Neutral Killing Role?
Killjoy – 1stish post stilts. Subsequent posts, great! Natural resp to poke, attack on LW. Hints at being town-aligned murderer. Bloodthirsty vs. Shinichi post.
Scum-
Iso- Unsure what to make of low-level activity, or posts thus far. Does not appear to be focused on info-generation, however.
Lastwhisper -1st post stilts and 2nd post. Persevered thru pressure afterwards, no strong reads. Osie- neighborizer. Very casual. Weak early pressure on two probably scum lngr and grape, that goes nowhere. From role analysis standpoint, if Bur was inspired by Az games, neighborizer is +scum. For whatever that’s worth.
Lngrrr – Dislike stance on Shinichi, as he claims to have more than 5 BP himself. Conversing without taking definitive stances.
grape- lots of referree’s, grading other players’ posting quality, without conviction.
I'm pretty ready to go all in on those Lngrr and Grape reads now. Couple other people, such as Tom, spotted those before I did. They're good shots to take.
Ok. Today is a sick day, and I'm taking it slow. Which leaves me some time where I can actually sit back and do some thread rereads without pressure.
So, here's where I'm coming down.
First off, massive read change on LW now that I have a chance to to digest more thoroughly. First thing that struck my notice is the number of posts he's throwing in here. Massive amounts. Even while under pressure. In fact, one of the things that's very evident in his posting is his level of frustration with how his doing the right thing, by participating, is leading people to continue to scum-read him. The meta that I've seen was more good-natured than I'm seeing here, so I don't know that I like the meta excuses for his behavior. But still, there are posts like this:
Quote from "lw" »
finally, I am not scum lol, so if ur expecting me to flip scum you'll be dissapointed. and "Well hes not helping town, so his lynch isnt that bad even if he flips town," wont fly if you try to fall back onto that.
This a hair more complicated of a thought by one degree to fake than I'd anticipate seeing from a scum LW.
And then the following:
Quote from "LW" »
@Orb
So your defense is, I wouldnt try so hard with how my work week is, if I was scum? k
God, I should just reframe from talking on Day 1's from now, when I'm town (which i am), or even scum (which im not), it just demoralizes me... to be scum read for everything i say.
I get it I say and do scummy things, but why am I still here then, like if I'm unanimously scummy then just get this over with... The more I defend myself the more I dig my own grave at this point... So forgive me for being frustrated...
The emotion here is just overwhelmingly town.
So LW - actually hard town.
Quote from "lw" »
why would grapefruit buss so hard and then not want to Lynch either me or LW, when we are fall throughs... I just thought about this, and it kinda clears GF for me for now...
Yeah, here's another example of him clearly thinking things through for himself.
I also moved Osie and KJ recently.
I haven't reread KJ, but I think it's possible that the things that were pinging me were just flavor bread-crumbs on his part. So back to null until I reread more thoroughly.
Osie, is an effort and reads read. That massive post that clearly took 24 hours to make - ok, scum can sometimes put in effort, but THAT much effort, just to look good? And the reads sound perfectly well thought out and organic? There's no way.
That puts me up to 7 town-clears out of 17.
Myself, realstinky, Osie, Shin, Phoenix, DV, and LW.
People I need to try to read harder are KJ and DBS and Lngrr and Grape. These are slots that I feel can be read correctly if I just take the time. Also Jenna.
Slots that I feel are going to be more difficult to remove from my POE are Megs, Kabazame, for obvious reasons, and then a trio of some of our more formidable scum players, Iso, Tom, and Axel.
WHY DID U HAVE TO SAY DOCTOR... and at the same time doctor can be a fake claim... with so many role blockers and a reviver it seems somewhat doubtful that you are the doctor...
If I were lying, town can CC for a 1 for 1 trade. Presuming both RBers are town-aligned is a stretch, and Shin, if you believe him, says his RB can't affect the NK anyways. Reviver != doc. Even if you wonder if I'm lying, you still give the scum the choice of having me block the kill, or just taking me out.
based on claim only, which RB makes the most sense with a doctor? unvote, vote osi
Dawningbluesky and Shinichi, the back and forth over the past few pages makes me believe you're both town. The degree of nitpicking combined with the reasonable explanations clears you both in my eyes. You join the ranks of Tom and Phoenix-Fire.
I'm not sure Shinichi has a genuine tunnel, it feels sinister. reasonable explanations doesn't make someone town ~.~
Sure, five or ten reasonable explanations over the course of 4500 posts could be shrugged away, but we're nearing an least twenty at this point, possibly thirty.
Shinichi is a player who tends to hammer the brick wall in his conversations. it can easily be misconstrued as reasonable. factually, anyone who refuses to take in the new pieces of information and harbors on the old...is just hammering a brick wall. mind showing me what new pieces of information has changed Shinichi's view of me, for better or worse? in the light of D2, he asked me if I wanted to see his fullclaim, then said it was me who outed him, which shows he isn't taking in any new pieces of information at all.
.... I think I forgot to tell everyone that.... games with me are always confusing lolol
//copypasta from an old game
vote: Phraze
your theories don't make sense, my head hurts after reading all your post @__@
Why aren't you replying to my post?
This game is giving me a headache..
Were those said by town or mafia? It seems peculiar. I've expressed exhaustion but that is simply because I am staying up far too late to participate. Those seem like attacks at a player without expressing suspicion.
they were said from town, to me as town. no malice involved, but I confused everyone enough to give them real headaches.
Thanks. As for Shinichi, I wish I had cataloged the instances, but even as early as his post #200, he was suggesting things that belied inside knowledge, to which he later revealed he was only speaking in a hypothetical. It appears to be a pattern: suggestions are spoken as fact, conjectures are conclusions.
Reading back through Az's ISO. So here's my stream of thought as I read it:
First post, claims Insta-dead if someone betrays him. Trying to insist that no one betray with out prior agreement and then says to be sure we reveal all the role info too so scum can learn all the Pos. On the surface that something that people write off as TSTBS, but I'm starting to think it's a double reverse.
Claims LW is Insta-readable scum.
Then he starts pocketing me when it turns into me vs. LW. I pick up on this, but he continues. He's also white knighting me when PF comes in with a push against me.
He takes KJ off his list of scum and puts DV on there, but then rescinds that comment and goes back to calling KJ scum.
When ISO calls Az out on his lack of effort, Az says he's intentionally being lucky so mafia doesn't kill him.
Then he starts his Scum claiming game, which bugs me a lot.
There is a certain amount of banter between ISO and Az up until this point Az seems to trust ISO. Az even said he would let ISO betray him if it wouldn't kill him, but then all of a sudden ISO is in his scum list with the reason being: "Unsure what to make of low-level activity, or posts thus far. Does not appear to be focused on info-generation, however.", which is pretty close to what ISO was saying about Az earlier, when Az responded that he was intentionally keeping a low profile.
Again claims scum... I hate this
Swears that LW is scum, but then jumps on the LNG wagon, who he did have I his scum pile earlier. His reason was that LNG seemed to be derailing the LW Lynch.
Again claims scum... I hate this
Hops back to LW, but I'm starting to notice that when he switches wagons, he makes a call to action, like "Everybody follow me to this great Lynch!"
Makes a post about how bad he has been lately, feels like he's excusing pushing mislynches.
Hops over to GF wagon.
DBS claims, he seems surprised and jealous that DBS has multiple abilities and still wants the LW Lynch.
Hops onto LNG hoping to ty the ISO wagon. Which weird considering ISO was another of one of his scum reads.
Barns me on wanting to Lynch, LW, DBS or Jenna. Hops onto DBS.
Again claims scum... I hate this, but also excuses his lack of productivity again. These constant apologies strike me as another scum tell, that I personally have been guilty of in my last scum game.
Hops onto Jenna.
Hops onto LW.
Town reads LW for post volume, but his vote is still on LW.
Hops onto Grapefruit. The case doesn't hold water when I first read it and it obviously doesn't when Grape flipped town.
Town clears LNG
Town clears Phoenix
Town Clears KJ
Lynch POE list: "Megs, Jenna, Tom, Axel, Iso, and (absolutely scum:) Grape. "
When I push DBS hard, Az pushes back and says I misrepresented him.
Parrots Tom's reading of ISO, but still calls him scum for not actually voting ISO.
Defends DBS from scum accusations by citing post volume. He did that for LW too. Also avoids answering about my case against DBS.
Pushes Jenna harder but doesn't move vote off GF (Case Post)
Pushes ISO harder but doesn't move off grape (Case Post)
Town clears Axel
Hops onto ISO: "Scum: Iso, Jenna, Grapefruit, Tom. Most scummy, to least scummy." Call to arms
Defends DBS more
Keeps pushing his scum hard, but mostly ISO, Jenna and GF
Hops onto Jenna, call to arms.
Makes a big post on the type of scum player Jenna is, which includes comments like:
"Then there are your scum like Jenna - the ones who are focused purely on their own survival above everything else. The ones who go out of their way not to stick out. But in so doing, they fail to behave like townies should. They fail to scum-hunt. They fail to comment. They fail to take positions. They fail to have genuine reactions to things that happen. That's what you need to be looking for in Jenna's case. Someone who is so caught up in trying to fade into the background and remain unnoticed, that she has nothing to contribute to the town's scum-hunting effort. Someone who is trying to hide."
So why is he so surprised when I call BS on Jenna Day 2?
Says LW is town because: "LW is belligerent, hostile, overreacts to people to attacking him, and emotional. Those traits can make him tough to read, because they read like the scum emotional profile to pressure.", but when I do the same thing he posts some BS forced case on me.
Scumslips that he knows GF is town:
"GF isn't really forcing anyone to do anything. He''s just trying to either nudge them in the direction he wants them to go, or score townie participation points by disagreeing with other townies. " He corrects it the next post, but this is pretty obvious especially because he felt necessary to correct it.
His top 2 scum suspects by the end of the day were ISO and Grape, but his accusations on them aren't actually based on much, it's based on lack of perceived greatness. He's not pushing players that have done scummy things, he's pushing players that he is painting as not doing townie things.
Hops onto ISO.
Defends KJ again
Pocket attempt on me again.
Hops onto Grape, but after screaming bloody murder and ISO is lock scum, he says that he wants to give ISO a chance.
Again points out how scummy Jenna is but not worth switching off of grape. I seem to remember Az calling Tom scum for saying someone is scummy but not really meaning it.
Makes a huge post about how Grape is scum, but the problem is I read the whole thing and didnt' really see the reasoning, like at all. It's a huge wall of a post, that I didn't see how it equated to being grape scum at all.
Defends LW
Hops onto ISO
Defends LW more
Hops onto GF.
Pushes GF over ISO
END DAY 1
TLDR: I didn't like his early pocket attempt on me. I didn't like his 180 on ISO, especially the double standard he held him to, when he himself had admitted to not being productive. I hated his "I'm totally scum" schtick, it feels like he's scum saying that to be able to joke about it post game and when people call him on it in game, he wants to play the TSTBS card. None of his case made sense to me except for the one on Jenna, who when she does something very scummy Day 2 he doesn't even bat an eye at and instead comes after me, with a very weak case. I still think ISO is town due to the claim town slip. I think Az legitimately slipped when he said:
GF isn't really forcing anyone to do anything. He''s just trying to either nudge them in the direction he wants them to go, or score townie participation points by disagreeing with other townies.
But the biggest problem I see is that, he mostly spends time talking about how players are town, which is easy to do as scum. It's harder to build a case on a townie as scum and I think that's why all of the "Scum Cases" he's built seem so flimsy.
Also please note that Day 1 his ISO was about 12.5 pages, when he started getting pressure end of Day 1 and the start of Day 2, his ISO has dropped to 2.5 pages. Granted we are only half way through the day phase, but if we correct for that, he will only be at 5 pages.
Thanks for the analysis, though it felt like it was majorly dealing with the facts of matter rather than the substance. Of course someone is allowed to change their mind, but does it follow? Personally I don't believe it does, but your analysis wouldn't have helped me come to that conclusion.
You don't WATCH your scum reads. You WATCH your town reads, so I knew right away that Jenna was lying about her action OR the worst mafia player ever.
I'm not known for making smart decisions in games.
For example, I was considering a reaction test. I would say that both you and Phoenix-Fire visited D_V. Knowing what we know now with how Phoenix-Fire came out, how would you react to Phoenix-Fire confirming the visit?
what? Lol
Jenna
I mean it is still possible that Terry visited DV, its highly possible actually, but it could maybe be that he assumed that you were gunna lie about what he did? But again that can also make little to no sense, because if you were the tracker or watcher you wouldnt know what he did... But im gunna safely assume that there was ill intent with his reaction and still keep him as a town lean, I sorta liked his answer to the reaction, and I dont want to focus on him today...
Osie
Maybe I am wrong, but before Day 2, I was more ok believing that Shin was scum than town, and but I think he allied me because he wanted me to use my ability, which in the end I didnt end up doing... but I cant get over his tunnel of Dawn... So like I'm ok beleving that he may be town, but its def not locked in... and reads change, get over it...
Jenna
I mean it is still possible that Terry visited DV, its highly possible actually, but it could maybe be that he assumed that you were gunna lie about what he did? But again that can also make little to no sense, because if you were the tracker or watcher you wouldnt know what he did... But im gunna safely assume that there was ill intent with his reaction and still keep him as a town lean, I sorta liked his answer to the reaction, and I dont want to focus on him today...
Osie
Maybe I am wrong, but before Day 2, I was more ok believing that Shin was scum than town, and but I think he allied me because he wanted me to use my ability, which in the end I didnt end up doing... but I cant get over his tunnel of Dawn... So like I'm ok beleving that he may be town, but its def not locked in... and reads change, get over it...
Dawningbluesky and Shinichi, the back and forth over the past few pages makes me believe you're both town. The degree of nitpicking combined with the reasonable explanations clears you both in my eyes. You join the ranks of Tom and Phoenix-Fire.
I'm not sure Shinichi has a genuine tunnel, it feels sinister. reasonable explanations doesn't make someone town ~.~
Sure, five or ten reasonable explanations over the course of 4500 posts could be shrugged away, but we're nearing an least twenty at this point, possibly thirty.
Shinichi is a player who tends to hammer the brick wall in his conversations. it can easily be misconstrued as reasonable. factually, anyone who refuses to take in the new pieces of information and harbors on the old...is just hammering a brick wall. mind showing me what new pieces of information has changed Shinichi's view of me, for better or worse? in the light of D2, he asked me if I wanted to see his fullclaim, then said it was me who outed him, which shows he isn't taking in any new pieces of information at all.
.... I think I forgot to tell everyone that.... games with me are always confusing lolol
//copypasta from an old game
vote: Phraze
your theories don't make sense, my head hurts after reading all your post @__@
Why aren't you replying to my post?
This game is giving me a headache..
Were those said by town or mafia? It seems peculiar. I've expressed exhaustion but that is simply because I am staying up far too late to participate. Those seem like attacks at a player without expressing suspicion.
they were said from town, to me as town. no malice involved, but I confused everyone enough to give them real headaches.
Thanks. As for Shinichi, I wish I had cataloged the instances, but even as early as his post #200, he was suggesting things that belied inside knowledge, to which he later revealed he was only speaking in a hypothetical. It appears to be a pattern: suggestions are spoken as fact, conjectures are conclusions.
give me an example of qhat made u think he had insider information.. if i can remember some of those posts
I'm not sure Shinichi has a genuine tunnel, it feels sinister. reasonable explanations doesn't make someone town ~.~
Sure, five or ten reasonable explanations over the course of 4500 posts could be shrugged away, but we're nearing an least twenty at this point, possibly thirty.
Shinichi is a player who tends to hammer the brick wall in his conversations. it can easily be misconstrued as reasonable. factually, anyone who refuses to take in the new pieces of information and harbors on the old...is just hammering a brick wall. mind showing me what new pieces of information has changed Shinichi's view of me, for better or worse? in the light of D2, he asked me if I wanted to see his fullclaim, then said it was me who outed him, which shows he isn't taking in any new pieces of information at all.
.... I think I forgot to tell everyone that.... games with me are always confusing lolol
//copypasta from an old game
Were those said by town or mafia? It seems peculiar. I've expressed exhaustion but that is simply because I am staying up far too late to participate. Those seem like attacks at a player without expressing suspicion.
they were said from town, to me as town. no malice involved, but I confused everyone enough to give them real headaches.
Thanks. As for Shinichi, I wish I had cataloged the instances, but even as early as his post #200, he was suggesting things that belied inside knowledge, to which he later revealed he was only speaking in a hypothetical. It appears to be a pattern: suggestions are spoken as fact, conjectures are conclusions.
give me an example of qhat made u think he had insider information.. if i can remember some of those posts
Also, Doc claim is scumfakeclaim 101. We should be lynching Az with prejudice.
I would suggest you refresh yourself on my case on Az, dawn, rather than assuming I don't have one. There's a nifty tool that you can use to do that that I linked tom to earlier.
Anyway, Az has dictated the pace of this game entirely too much for someone who's clearly been intentionally misleading us from when he started making real posts. If Az flips town, I will happily eat a lynch next. But he won't. So let's kill him.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Past couple days have been surprisingly busy (having been very un-busy prior to that), so I'm just starting in now.
So. Many. Posts.
No reads so far, as I'm literally on page 2.
On second thought, maybe I just catch up with Today's stuff to be able to semi-participate and then fill in Day 1 afterwards? idk man
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I can agree on Iso/Shin so far. gonna try my version of interaction analysis on those two.
not sure about Jenna/Tom....
Idk... both Iso/Shin are in a wierd spot, they both pop in, and literally bring either nothing to the table, or the same ***** they've been saying for days... and I dont understand wth they are trying to accomplish if they are town...
and im willing to leave jenna/tom alone for today, unless I find some new information
Maybe I just need to switch real Terry and Jenna, that was ridiculous. Osie I think is just terribly but honestly mistaken, but man, those reads are tunneled hard. Idk, Terry could just be having an awful read too I suppose, but should at least be in the conversation. Bunch of personality/playstyle based cases I think is the issue, as if I don't defend cases/gather info in a like manner consistently. Terry is literally still making my claimimg scum habit a central point in his case after being told I've done that for twelve years. And jumping on my not stating the completely obvious role name like it's some kind of smoking gun. No. You're just not being objective.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
also you already claimed doctor, so spill the rest of the beans, I wanna compare your claim with everyone elses...
Role name Diana
Flavor paraphrase about having murdered six people, no, miscount, actually six billion. (You know, nice, friendly sounding stuff.)
Then my text goes on to say I'm actually very mild, non-violent person and my *searches for synonyms* hospital skills will help me live through this. (HA! Because being the doctor totally doesn't make you a lightning rod)
Then some stuff about feeling a lot of pressure, not being adequate to meet the heavy demands on me, disliking myself because of that.
Abilities are 3 BP, -2 to doc. Since a couple of days ago I debated about lying and saying I have an additional ability where I can burn myself out to block the kill, but *shrug*, probably not believable by either alignment and I think I got the scum pinned down anyways, so whatever happens next, feels less critical at the moment.
It's a fake claim guys, no role name with it, everyone has a role name. Let's lynch the hell out of Az.
role name
flavor paraphrase
then my text
then some stuff
abilities
"role name" diana isn't the literal thing, it's just a wording. I don't think we should lynch the doc, unless counterclaimed.
Again with the counter claim, if there is no duplicates then what? My role aint similar to yours at all, outside of stopping abilities.
Iso makes a good point there have been alot of protective role claims and the fact he hid is role name says alot because everoyne has seemed to have some kind of role name.
if anyone is bussing Azrael, it's Iso. it's the perfect clearance for Iso if Azrael flips scum. but...that also doesn't make sense with their lynch theatre. nobody I can think of outside of that, which is why I think Azrael is town.
It looks like they're mafia together so you're not going to believe they're mafia together? How does that follow?
Also, Doc claim is scumfakeclaim 101. We should be lynching Az with prejudice.
I would suggest you refresh yourself on my case on Az, dawn, rather than assuming I don't have one. There's a nifty tool that you can use to do that that I linked tom to earlier.
Anyway, Az has dictated the pace of this game entirely too much for someone who's clearly been intentionally misleading us from when he started making real posts. If Az flips town, I will happily eat a lynch next. But he won't. So let's kill him.
where do you see 3 protective roles? And nothing has been confirmed yet so take these assumptions with a grain of salt like I am lol... I mean I agree Doc is like the number one scum fake claim a long side BP, but still...
Oh it wasn't Axel that autovoted Jenna. It was Pheonix. Ok that makes more sense.
Why are so many people fullclaiming D2? That's not good.
I find myself granting extra trust to the people who have come forth unprompted. Most of those still in hiding still need to establish any trust at all.
ya I stated before that there is a chance that some(maybe), but not all mafia are part of the unclaimed... plus we still dont know if there is a tpr.
Honestly, what do you think of Iso's venge claim? The thing is, that its not nesscarily scum or town aligned, but im trying to find the relavence in this game that makes it useful for town...
Vengeful is normally mafia aligned, unless hes stating hes PGO which aint the case.
Also, Doc claim is scumfakeclaim 101. We should be lynching Az with prejudice.
I would suggest you refresh yourself on my case on Az, dawn, rather than assuming I don't have one. There's a nifty tool that you can use to do that that I linked tom to earlier.
Anyway, Az has dictated the pace of this game entirely too much for someone who's clearly been intentionally misleading us from when he started making real posts. If Az flips town, I will happily eat a lynch next. But he won't. So let's kill him.
Doc claim is either CC or let it go to night and see if the scum kill it, 101. And what do you mean, "since I started" making real posts. Iso, you haven't made a "real post" this entire game. And I'm the bad guy for trying to rally this completely wchizophrenic, leaderless town to actually consolidate and make some lunches? Get out of here, scum Iso. If I really were scum, I'd be doing exactly what you are right now. Sitting on my butt, not trying to bail this town out and kick it into some semblance of a plan.
also you already claimed doctor, so spill the rest of the beans, I wanna compare your claim with everyone elses...
Role name Diana
Flavor paraphrase about having murdered six people, no, miscount, actually six billion. (You know, nice, friendly sounding stuff.)
Then my text goes on to say I'm actually very mild, non-violent person and my *searches for synonyms* hospital skills will help me live through this. (HA! Because being the doctor totally doesn't make you a lightning rod)
Then some stuff about feeling a lot of pressure, not being adequate to meet the heavy demands on me, disliking myself because of that.
Abilities are 3 BP, -2 to doc. Since a couple of days ago I debated about lying and saying I have an additional ability where I can burn myself out to block the kill, but *shrug*, probably not believable by either alignment and I think I got the scum pinned down anyways, so whatever happens next, feels less critical at the moment.
It's a fake claim guys, no role name with it, everyone has a role name. Let's lynch the hell out of Az.
role name
flavor paraphrase
then my text
then some stuff
abilities
"role name" diana isn't the literal thing, it's just a wording. I don't think we should lynch the doc, unless counterclaimed.
Again with the counter claim, if there is no duplicates then what? My role aint similar to yours at all, outside of stopping abilities.
Iso makes a good point there have been alot of protective role claims and the fact he hid is role name says alot because everoyne has seemed to have some kind of role name.
Mine being the Town Manipulator.
wth are u guys claiming are town protective roles?? Lol am I forgetting something vital information
Cite that. You mean to tell me you've gone through 15 years of azrael games and figured that out? No, you're talking out of your ass, bc no one is really bothering to call you on any of your lies and laziness, except dawn.
Also, Doc claim is scumfakeclaim 101. We should be lynching Az with prejudice.
I would suggest you refresh yourself on my case on Az, dawn, rather than assuming I don't have one. There's a nifty tool that you can use to do that that I linked tom to earlier.
Anyway, Az has dictated the pace of this game entirely too much for someone who's clearly been intentionally misleading us from when he started making real posts. If Az flips town, I will happily eat a lynch next. But he won't. So let's kill him.
Doc claim is either CC or let it go to night and see if the scum kill it, 101. And what do you mean, "since I started" making real posts. Iso, you haven't made a "real post" this entire game. And I'm the bad guy for trying to rally this completely wchizophrenic, leaderless town to actually consolidate and make some lunches? Get out of here, scum Iso. If I really were scum, I'd be doing exactly what you are right now. Sitting on my butt, not trying to bail this town out and kick it into some semblance of a plan.
those last sentences means nothing... And u should be scum reading me for my whole day 1 performance then...
Here's my current philosophical issue. Been musing about this.
The thing is, from what I've seen and what has been claimed, the BP abilities in this game are: (1) Over-costed, (2) Very Weak, or (3) Both.
Take the "Detective." Our "Cop" started with 3 BP and needed to get to 6 (meaning 7) before he could even get off a single shot. DV said it himself, the chances of getting off multiple shots were minuscule in the extreme. So, in practice, he was like a (very bad) 1-shot Cop who couldn't even use his ability before Night 3 under the best case scenario.
The "Reviver" role needed to get to 7 BP (meaning 8) before he could bring someone back. And even then, they all died together, meaning that any benefit we got from it could be wiped out immediately. That's an end-game ability or never kind of thing.
Iso's claim is weak. Also needs to get to 7 (how many betrayals costing others BP would that be?), and then it's at best a 1 for 1, IF he shoots correctly since he has to die first.
Osie's claim is weak. Pay one to chat? I mean, maybe, if you randomly got paired with someone you were still trying to figure out, you might get a stronger feel for their alignment doing this than you got during the day in the thread, but is it even worth a life point?
LW's claim is weak. Obviously it's BP neutral, give one, someone gets one, but since you can give to scum, and you are always going down, if you're Town it's average negative for the Town overall.
Phoenix's claim is neutral/bad. Basically, if what he says is true, we get information as long as he stays alive (information that in other Bur games was given for free) AND he mucks up Watcher/Tracker results by always going to the dead people.
LnGrrr's role is...okay? At the very least he could use it immediately without risk of dying (4 -> 2). But it seems to me, it only gives useful information in the situation where you have scum/scum A/B pairs, or the scum getting paired with the NK choice, which is the only place someone might lie about whether they allied/betrayed. Seeing Az/Iso get paired up last night was an actual opportunity, I thought, but I can't say it's scummy for him not to have used it. Also QUESTION: I don't remember if you said whether your ability checks to see if your target is betraying just that night, or if your target has ever betrayed at any time the whole game? In any event, this ability also isn't getting used a whole lot.
Shin's abilities aren't terrible. But they are also passive and he doesn't get to choose who he's paired up with. The actual BP ability (pay 4 to chose a different target) is super expensive for what it does - which is not even a Doc. protect or a RB that can stop a NK).
Then we have DBS. Can do nothing at first. Must lose BP to use her abilities. Gaining a RB at 3 BP is decent. Having to go down to 1 BP to gain a vig. shot (and risk instant death to either being betrayed or to the mystery BP stealer) isn't great.
I already claimed my ability was...not good. I'm going to leave it at that for now.
Finally, there's Jenna. And here's my issue. This ability is good. Tracker is good. AND it apparently only costs 2 BP to use. Granted, if she uses it right away she's putting herself at risk of instant death to betrayal, but even so. The cost of this ability is out of whack with basically every other ability that has been claimed.
Basically, one of these things is not like the others.
I mean DBS has the 2 different abilities while everyone elses abilities corridinate pretty well.
I feel like roles that have to rely too much on betrayal lean more towards the scum side but i obviously have no way to support that do to DV and GF roles being town aligned while costing so much.
Jenna/Az/Phoenix/DBS/Wisp
Feel like their roles have the highest chance of being scum based on ability
Im replying to this knowing AZ claimed doctor atleast thats what i read
Here's my current philosophical issue. Been musing about this.
The thing is, from what I've seen and what has been claimed, the BP abilities in this game are: (1) Over-costed, (2) Very Weak, or (3) Both.
Take the "Detective." Our "Cop" started with 3 BP and needed to get to 6 (meaning 7) before he could even get off a single shot. DV said it himself, the chances of getting off multiple shots were minuscule in the extreme. So, in practice, he was like a (very bad) 1-shot Cop who couldn't even use his ability before Night 3 under the best case scenario.
The "Reviver" role needed to get to 7 BP (meaning 8) before he could bring someone back. And even then, they all died together, meaning that any benefit we got from it could be wiped out immediately. That's an end-game ability or never kind of thing.
Iso's claim is weak. Also needs to get to 7 (how many betrayals costing others BP would that be?), and then it's at best a 1 for 1, IF he shoots correctly since he has to die first.
Osie's claim is weak. Pay one to chat? I mean, maybe, if you randomly got paired with someone you were still trying to figure out, you might get a stronger feel for their alignment doing this than you got during the day in the thread, but is it even worth a life point?
LW's claim is weak. Obviously it's BP neutral, give one, someone gets one, but since you can give to scum, and you are always going down, if you're Town it's average negative for the Town overall.
Phoenix's claim is neutral/bad. Basically, if what he says is true, we get information as long as he stays alive (information that in other Bur games was given for free) AND he mucks up Watcher/Tracker results by always going to the dead people.
LnGrrr's role is...okay? At the very least he could use it immediately without risk of dying (4 -> 2). But it seems to me, it only gives useful information in the situation where you have scum/scum A/B pairs, or the scum getting paired with the NK choice, which is the only place someone might lie about whether they allied/betrayed. Seeing Az/Iso get paired up last night was an actual opportunity, I thought, but I can't say it's scummy for him not to have used it. Also QUESTION: I don't remember if you said whether your ability checks to see if your target is betraying just that night, or if your target has ever betrayed at any time the whole game? In any event, this ability also isn't getting used a whole lot.
Shin's abilities aren't terrible. But they are also passive and he doesn't get to choose who he's paired up with. The actual BP ability (pay 4 to chose a different target) is super expensive for what it does - which is not even a Doc. protect or a RB that can stop a NK).
Then we have DBS. Can do nothing at first. Must lose BP to use her abilities. Gaining a RB at 3 BP is decent. Having to go down to 1 BP to gain a vig. shot (and risk instant death to either being betrayed or to the mystery BP stealer) isn't great.
I already claimed my ability was...not good. I'm going to leave it at that for now.
Finally, there's Jenna. And here's my issue. This ability is good. Tracker is good. AND it apparently only costs 2 BP to use. Granted, if she uses it right away she's putting herself at risk of instant death to betrayal, but even so. The cost of this ability is out of whack with basically every other ability that has been claimed.
Basically, one of these things is not like the others.
I mean DBS has the 2 different abilities while everyone elses abilities corridinate pretty well.
I feel like roles that have to rely too much on betrayal lean more towards the scum side but i obviously have no way to support that do to DV and GF roles being town aligned while costing so much.
Jenna/Az/Phoenix/DBS/Wisp
Feel like their roles have the highest chance of being scum based on ability
Im replying to this knowing AZ claimed doctor atleast thats what i read
where is this correlation... And why is my and Phoenix's role most likely scumed based, and what does as claiming doctor have to do with anything u stated???
-Coming into a game playing at 2 different personalities in my opinion is a form of trolling, nonetheless shes still being helpful.
-I am getting to the point where ISO is just being scum that is hiding behind is really large ego, but Idk if that just me starting to get fustrated at his way of thinking.
-Your role can be scum aligned, I mean from my experience alot of roles that have passive effects that once killed hinder town align more with scum to eep us from wanting to lynch said person. Overall I do believe your ability is way to convienent.
-I won't lynch a lurker for lurking give a better reason and maybe that will persuaude me
-Mod Error or not I don't like how Jenna is taking advantage of that to claim you have to be town, when I still barely see it.
-I full claimed obviously paraphrased eactly what was in my role pm take that with a grain of salt if you will, im not used to people having to PM their kills abilities yes, but not night kills.
-Why wont you lynch LW?
Here's my current philosophical issue. Been musing about this.
The thing is, from what I've seen and what has been claimed, the BP abilities in this game are: (1) Over-costed, (2) Very Weak, or (3) Both.
Take the "Detective." Our "Cop" started with 3 BP and needed to get to 6 (meaning 7) before he could even get off a single shot. DV said it himself, the chances of getting off multiple shots were minuscule in the extreme. So, in practice, he was like a (very bad) 1-shot Cop who couldn't even use his ability before Night 3 under the best case scenario.
The "Reviver" role needed to get to 7 BP (meaning 8) before he could bring someone back. And even then, they all died together, meaning that any benefit we got from it could be wiped out immediately. That's an end-game ability or never kind of thing.
Iso's claim is weak. Also needs to get to 7 (how many betrayals costing others BP would that be?), and then it's at best a 1 for 1, IF he shoots correctly since he has to die first.
Osie's claim is weak. Pay one to chat? I mean, maybe, if you randomly got paired with someone you were still trying to figure out, you might get a stronger feel for their alignment doing this than you got during the day in the thread, but is it even worth a life point?
LW's claim is weak. Obviously it's BP neutral, give one, someone gets one, but since you can give to scum, and you are always going down, if you're Town it's average negative for the Town overall.
Phoenix's claim is neutral/bad. Basically, if what he says is true, we get information as long as he stays alive (information that in other Bur games was given for free) AND he mucks up Watcher/Tracker results by always going to the dead people.
LnGrrr's role is...okay? At the very least he could use it immediately without risk of dying (4 -> 2). But it seems to me, it only gives useful information in the situation where you have scum/scum A/B pairs, or the scum getting paired with the NK choice, which is the only place someone might lie about whether they allied/betrayed. Seeing Az/Iso get paired up last night was an actual opportunity, I thought, but I can't say it's scummy for him not to have used it. Also QUESTION: I don't remember if you said whether your ability checks to see if your target is betraying just that night, or if your target has ever betrayed at any time the whole game? In any event, this ability also isn't getting used a whole lot.
Shin's abilities aren't terrible. But they are also passive and he doesn't get to choose who he's paired up with. The actual BP ability (pay 4 to chose a different target) is super expensive for what it does - which is not even a Doc. protect or a RB that can stop a NK).
Then we have DBS. Can do nothing at first. Must lose BP to use her abilities. Gaining a RB at 3 BP is decent. Having to go down to 1 BP to gain a vig. shot (and risk instant death to either being betrayed or to the mystery BP stealer) isn't great.
I already claimed my ability was...not good. I'm going to leave it at that for now.
Finally, there's Jenna. And here's my issue. This ability is good. Tracker is good. AND it apparently only costs 2 BP to use. Granted, if she uses it right away she's putting herself at risk of instant death to betrayal, but even so. The cost of this ability is out of whack with basically every other ability that has been claimed.
Basically, one of these things is not like the others.
I mean DBS has the 2 different abilities while everyone elses abilities corridinate pretty well.
I feel like roles that have to rely too much on betrayal lean more towards the scum side but i obviously have no way to support that do to DV and GF roles being town aligned while costing so much.
Jenna/Az/Phoenix/DBS/Wisp
Feel like their roles have the highest chance of being scum based on ability
Im replying to this knowing AZ claimed doctor atleast thats what i read
where is this correlation... And why is my and Phoenix's role most likely scumed based, and what does as claiming doctor have to do with anything u stated???
Moron lol this was a post on page 93, az hadnt claimed yet so I wanted people to know I added AZ doc claim as a possibl role that could be scummy whats not to get?
You can give people BP? Sounds like a nice role for scum does it not? Phoenix role basically holds town by a noose which is what worries me.
Also forgot to put The vengeful claim in that list of people
-Coming into a game playing at 2 different personalities in my opinion is a form of trolling, nonetheless shes still being helpful.
-I am getting to the point where ISO is just being scum that is hiding behind is really large ego, but Idk if that just me starting to get fustrated at his way of thinking.
-Your role can be scum aligned, I mean from my experience alot of roles that have passive effects that once killed hinder town align more with scum to eep us from wanting to lynch said person. Overall I do believe your ability is way to convienent.
-I won't lynch a lurker for lurking give a better reason and maybe that will persuaude me
-Mod Error or not I don't like how Jenna is taking advantage of that to claim you have to be town, when I still barely see it.
-I full claimed obviously paraphrased eactly what was in my role pm take that with a grain of salt if you will, im not used to people having to PM their kills abilities yes, but not night kills.
-Why wont you lynch LW?
lmao... Remember when Abu's death caused two night phases too occur, remember what he flipped? Ohh wait he was town, and scum got him lynched because they used this excuse that his ability was a negative for the town so that he could use it to survive as mafia...
Here's my current philosophical issue. Been musing about this.
The thing is, from what I've seen and what has been claimed, the BP abilities in this game are: (1) Over-costed, (2) Very Weak, or (3) Both.
Take the "Detective." Our "Cop" started with 3 BP and needed to get to 6 (meaning 7) before he could even get off a single shot. DV said it himself, the chances of getting off multiple shots were minuscule in the extreme. So, in practice, he was like a (very bad) 1-shot Cop who couldn't even use his ability before Night 3 under the best case scenario.
The "Reviver" role needed to get to 7 BP (meaning 8) before he could bring someone back. And even then, they all died together, meaning that any benefit we got from it could be wiped out immediately. That's an end-game ability or never kind of thing.
Iso's claim is weak. Also needs to get to 7 (how many betrayals costing others BP would that be?), and then it's at best a 1 for 1, IF he shoots correctly since he has to die first.
Osie's claim is weak. Pay one to chat? I mean, maybe, if you randomly got paired with someone you were still trying to figure out, you might get a stronger feel for their alignment doing this than you got during the day in the thread, but is it even worth a life point?
LW's claim is weak. Obviously it's BP neutral, give one, someone gets one, but since you can give to scum, and you are always going down, if you're Town it's average negative for the Town overall.
Phoenix's claim is neutral/bad. Basically, if what he says is true, we get information as long as he stays alive (information that in other Bur games was given for free) AND he mucks up Watcher/Tracker results by always going to the dead people.
LnGrrr's role is...okay? At the very least he could use it immediately without risk of dying (4 -> 2). But it seems to me, it only gives useful information in the situation where you have scum/scum A/B pairs, or the scum getting paired with the NK choice, which is the only place someone might lie about whether they allied/betrayed. Seeing Az/Iso get paired up last night was an actual opportunity, I thought, but I can't say it's scummy for him not to have used it. Also QUESTION: I don't remember if you said whether your ability checks to see if your target is betraying just that night, or if your target has ever betrayed at any time the whole game? In any event, this ability also isn't getting used a whole lot.
Shin's abilities aren't terrible. But they are also passive and he doesn't get to choose who he's paired up with. The actual BP ability (pay 4 to chose a different target) is super expensive for what it does - which is not even a Doc. protect or a RB that can stop a NK).
Then we have DBS. Can do nothing at first. Must lose BP to use her abilities. Gaining a RB at 3 BP is decent. Having to go down to 1 BP to gain a vig. shot (and risk instant death to either being betrayed or to the mystery BP stealer) isn't great.
I already claimed my ability was...not good. I'm going to leave it at that for now.
Finally, there's Jenna. And here's my issue. This ability is good. Tracker is good. AND it apparently only costs 2 BP to use. Granted, if she uses it right away she's putting herself at risk of instant death to betrayal, but even so. The cost of this ability is out of whack with basically every other ability that has been claimed.
Basically, one of these things is not like the others.
I mean DBS has the 2 different abilities while everyone elses abilities corridinate pretty well.
I feel like roles that have to rely too much on betrayal lean more towards the scum side but i obviously have no way to support that do to DV and GF roles being town aligned while costing so much.
Jenna/Az/Phoenix/DBS/Wisp
Feel like their roles have the highest chance of being scum based on ability
Im replying to this knowing AZ claimed doctor atleast thats what i read
where is this correlation... And why is my and Phoenix's role most likely scumed based, and what does as claiming doctor have to do with anything u stated???
Moron lol this was a post on page 93, az hadnt claimed yet so I wanted people to know I added AZ doc claim as a possibl role that could be scummy whats not to get?
You can give people BP? Sounds like a nice role for scum does it not? Phoenix role basically holds town by a noose which is what worries me.
Also forgot to put The vengeful claim in that list of people
of course my ability can be helpful for both alignments... Lol, why are u focused on my role claim all of a sudden...
@LW, I highly doubt that scum!Jenna has a bus with scum!Phoenix that early D2. That just makes no sense, especially since Phoenix was widely town-read. I think you can safely eliminate that option.
@Terry, so... you thought Jenna was lying and you were trying to trap her. Ok. Why the pseudo-counter claim? I don't get your plan. If she says she tracked you (and really, that's thinking low of her play), then you claim otherwise, it's a battle between you and her. You probably win, and then she gets lynched. How would that work out for her? Even if she got you lynched, as soon as you flipped town, she would be instalynched D3.
Frankly, for you to believe said plan, you'd have to think Jenna can't think ahead past a Day, AND didn't talk at all with her scum team about any of her plans. That... beggars belief.
But I didn't counter claim and I didn't think very highly of her play at the time. I only implied that I might counter claim, not once did I ever say I was counter claiming. I did this to ensure that she was being truthful. In my mind, I wanted to bait her into lying and saying that I visited DV, when I didn't, so I could 1 for 1 with her.
Still dont understand what you would have gained from it? What if she is actually town and your so called false cc you were planning to make got her mislynched?
Here's my current philosophical issue. Been musing about this.
The thing is, from what I've seen and what has been claimed, the BP abilities in this game are: (1) Over-costed, (2) Very Weak, or (3) Both.
Take the "Detective." Our "Cop" started with 3 BP and needed to get to 6 (meaning 7) before he could even get off a single shot. DV said it himself, the chances of getting off multiple shots were minuscule in the extreme. So, in practice, he was like a (very bad) 1-shot Cop who couldn't even use his ability before Night 3 under the best case scenario.
The "Reviver" role needed to get to 7 BP (meaning 8) before he could bring someone back. And even then, they all died together, meaning that any benefit we got from it could be wiped out immediately. That's an end-game ability or never kind of thing.
Iso's claim is weak. Also needs to get to 7 (how many betrayals costing others BP would that be?), and then it's at best a 1 for 1, IF he shoots correctly since he has to die first.
Osie's claim is weak. Pay one to chat? I mean, maybe, if you randomly got paired with someone you were still trying to figure out, you might get a stronger feel for their alignment doing this than you got during the day in the thread, but is it even worth a life point?
LW's claim is weak. Obviously it's BP neutral, give one, someone gets one, but since you can give to scum, and you are always going down, if you're Town it's average negative for the Town overall.
Phoenix's claim is neutral/bad. Basically, if what he says is true, we get information as long as he stays alive (information that in other Bur games was given for free) AND he mucks up Watcher/Tracker results by always going to the dead people.
LnGrrr's role is...okay? At the very least he could use it immediately without risk of dying (4 -> 2). But it seems to me, it only gives useful information in the situation where you have scum/scum A/B pairs, or the scum getting paired with the NK choice, which is the only place someone might lie about whether they allied/betrayed. Seeing Az/Iso get paired up last night was an actual opportunity, I thought, but I can't say it's scummy for him not to have used it. Also QUESTION: I don't remember if you said whether your ability checks to see if your target is betraying just that night, or if your target has ever betrayed at any time the whole game? In any event, this ability also isn't getting used a whole lot.
Shin's abilities aren't terrible. But they are also passive and he doesn't get to choose who he's paired up with. The actual BP ability (pay 4 to chose a different target) is super expensive for what it does - which is not even a Doc. protect or a RB that can stop a NK).
Then we have DBS. Can do nothing at first. Must lose BP to use her abilities. Gaining a RB at 3 BP is decent. Having to go down to 1 BP to gain a vig. shot (and risk instant death to either being betrayed or to the mystery BP stealer) isn't great.
I already claimed my ability was...not good. I'm going to leave it at that for now.
Finally, there's Jenna. And here's my issue. This ability is good. Tracker is good. AND it apparently only costs 2 BP to use. Granted, if she uses it right away she's putting herself at risk of instant death to betrayal, but even so. The cost of this ability is out of whack with basically every other ability that has been claimed.
Basically, one of these things is not like the others.
I mean DBS has the 2 different abilities while everyone elses abilities corridinate pretty well.
I feel like roles that have to rely too much on betrayal lean more towards the scum side but i obviously have no way to support that do to DV and GF roles being town aligned while costing so much.
Jenna/Az/Phoenix/DBS/Wisp
Feel like their roles have the highest chance of being scum based on ability
Im replying to this knowing AZ claimed doctor atleast thats what i read
where is this correlation... And why is my and Phoenix's role most likely scumed based, and what does as claiming doctor have to do with anything u stated???
Moron lol this was a post on page 93, az hadnt claimed yet so I wanted people to know I added AZ doc claim as a possibl role that could be scummy whats not to get?
You can give people BP? Sounds like a nice role for scum does it not? Phoenix role basically holds town by a noose which is what worries me.
Also forgot to put The vengeful claim in that list of people
of course my ability can be helpful for both alignments... Lol, why are u focused on my role claim all of a sudden...
CAUSE OF THE POST THAT WAS POINTING OUT THE ROLES, are you seriously being that dense right now?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Be grateful, always."
You understand we can only lynch one person per Day, yes?
I hope I don't.
actual footage of Iso
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I've seen scum pull this ***** of "I didn't know, so I was wrong" and continue mislynching. I swear whatever Azrael flips
and I'm not sure what he flips, I'll be keeping an eye on you. you haven't given out a valid or well thought-out case on Azrael, but just basing it off "I'm right" which can eaaasily be refuted later as a mistake. no way. Azrael makes real cases and thoughts. you're just pushing the "I'm right" at everyone's face. where are your cases?don't think I'll be joining this wagon that might be excused as a 'big mistake', or used to further your "I'm right" agenda. either way this goes, you're set on controlling the town. bad idea. you don't have a correct scumread as of yet~ (like on Jenna/Last)
Be grateful, always."
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Non-Staff Quasi-ModAkane: Uh... no. There's no way.
Junpei: Someone likes cake too much.
Akane: Oh, I know! Let's cut off Junpei's arm! He should be able to fit through then.
Azrael (5): Iso, Axelrod, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Jenna Tolaria, Lastwhisper
Lastwhisper (3): Kabazame, tomsloger, osieorb18
dawningbluesky (1): Shinichi
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): Azrael
Iso (1): dawningbluesky
Not voting (4): Cythare, Phoenix-Fire, Killjoy, LnGrrrR
With 15 alive, it’s 8 to lynch. Deadline is Thursday, November 23rd at 11.59 pm EST.
do you agree with that?
don't rely on pre-flip association.
if you think we're just gonna pair people up and flip pancakes, that's just bad if not worse.
I've seen how bad pre-flip association is, so I won't be using it to clear someone. unless proven with like, a parity cop (and we sort them out lol), I won't townclear someone.
I can't defend Azrael if I'm not sure what his alignment is. still don't like Iso's vote, or the way he wants us to sheep it. why do you like his vote? .-.
Be grateful, always."
^ Phoenix town posts.
While I think that the role working as described is a bit unconventional, I'm going with my behavioral read over the mod-gaming. It's pretty easy to chart Phoenix's thought process, here.
Terry's interaction with Jenna is not something I'd expect to see if they're aligned. But I don't think Jenna's call-out on Phoenix and avoidance of the so-called trap is clearing for her. Right now, I'm pretty sure I need to keep expanding my reread/recheck list, maybe with Shinichi next. Feel like I'm still one or two slots short of tinkering into something more correct. Jenna, Iso, Tom - Terry is off my list from that Jenna interaction.
Dislike this bit where Shin comments that he thinks the scum aren't having an easy time.
If he's town, what's his basis for that? Is he feeling the strain of having to stay convincing while being that active? If you'd have asked me, I'd have thought that the scum were mostly having an easy time stalling us out and letting us just mill around aimlessly, but having said that, I can see how one of the more active scum posters might feel that way. But IDK that that's the kind of observation that naturally occurs to a town player.
*Frowns* Some weak role analysis shade here.
If you're going to engage in mod-gaming, you should at least say something more obnoxious and useful like "in what world are there two town roleblockers?" If you're going to go there.
Few different times Shin has seemed a tad too preoccupied with defending fairly weak attacks. Minor issue only.
Well, that's a serious exaggeration. The "perfect role" for scum?
Not great conviction in the defense here. That's a tone read, not a complaint about the content, which is unremarkable.
Hmm. This makes the claim timing far more understandable.
Focus at this point in time is on plentiful back and forth on meta with DBS here, little else.
Here's my issue with the mentality here. He's not upset about any of Jenna's legitimate issues here - he's simply pointing to another player who he thinks has done something worse. There are reasons, as town, to not be happy with either. But the mentality here is straight deflection, from one target, to another. Particularly if DBS is town and Shin and Jenna are aligned per current theory, dislike.
Undue certainty tell. And undue trust. I have no idea what Iso has done to inspire that much trust from Shin. Other than tell him what to do in scum-chat, anyways.
Guess? That's not town phrasing.
Shin laying into DBS hard, after she complains about GF's refusal to claim.
I have a real hard time grokking this as a town mentality, also. I know my own reaction, 100%, after seeing GF flip was a mental facepalm exactly in line with DBS' sentiments. He should have claimed.
Nothing wrong with DBS's reaction here, she's just a convenient target for the scum, same as me, because you can point a finger at her easily for her role in the CFD. And then just hope everyone ignores all her town tells. Unified scum strategy here, with Iso.
There's wine, and then there's common sense. If you have a high-value target as scum like a town-aligned iso, you take it. I didn't take it. That means something. Whatever credit you could expect to get from that move, is outweighed by taking Iso off the table if he were actually town. But given his total absence of concern with scum-hunting...
And then he pushes the lynch on DBS again, too. Pure chain mislynch mining move.
I've got 22 more pages of this to go, if you guys want me to. But my mind is pretty well made up.
Scum team is Iso, Shin, Jenna, Tom.
And oh, by the way, I'm the doctor. Kill Iso first. vote Iso
Dislike this bit where Shin comments that he thinks the scum aren't having an easy time.
If he's town, what's his basis for that? Is he feeling the strain of having to stay convincing while being that active? If you'd have asked me, I'd have thought that the scum were mostly having an easy time stalling us out and letting us just mill around aimlessly, but having said that, I can see how one of the more active scum posters might feel that way. But IDK that that's the kind of observation that naturally occurs to a town player.
*Frowns* Some weak role analysis shade here.
If you're going to engage in mod-gaming, you should at least say something more obnoxious and useful like "in what world are there two town roleblockers?" If you're going to go there.
Few different times Shin has seemed a tad too preoccupied with defending fairly weak attacks. Minor issue only.
Well, that's a serious exaggeration. The "perfect role" for scum?
Not great conviction in the defense here. That's a tone read, not a complaint about the content, which is unremarkable.
Hmm. This makes the claim timing far more understandable.
Focus at this point in time is on plentiful back and forth on meta with DBS here, little else.
Here's my issue with the mentality here. He's not upset about any of Jenna's legitimate issues here - he's simply pointing to another player who he thinks has done something worse. There are reasons, as town, to not be happy with either. But the mentality here is straight deflection, from one target, to another. Particularly if DBS is town and Shin and Jenna are aligned per current theory, dislike.
Undue certainty tell. And undue trust. I have no idea what Iso has done to inspire that much trust from Shin. Other than tell him what to do in scum-chat, anyways.
Guess? That's not town phrasing.
Shin laying into DBS hard, after she complains about GF's refusal to claim.
I have a real hard time grokking this as a town mentality, also. I know my own reaction, 100%, after seeing GF flip was a mental facepalm exactly in line with DBS' sentiments. He should have claimed.
Nothing wrong with DBS's reaction here, she's just a convenient target for the scum, same as me, because you can point a finger at her easily for her role in the CFD. And then just hope everyone ignores all her town tells. Unified scum strategy here, with Iso.
There's wine, and then there's common sense. If you have a high-value target as scum like a town-aligned iso, you take it. I didn't take it. That means something. Whatever credit you could expect to get from that move, is outweighed by taking Iso off the table if he were actually town. But given his total absence of concern with scum-hunting...
And then he pushes the lynch on DBS again, too. Pure chain mislynch mining move.
I've got 22 more pages of this to go, if you guys want me to. But my mind is pretty well made up.
Scum team is Iso, Shin, Jenna, Tom.
And oh, by the way, I'm the doctor. Kill Iso first. vote: Iso *mic drop* Spectator thread, I'll see you soon.
which I actually did before I noticed you posted it twice
town should be more concerned about their fellows, because the frustration will make town turn on each other as a means to sate their anger (hint: me) while the real scumteam sit back and watch.
Be grateful, always."
also your producing a lot of heat for being the doctor, if I was the a doctor, I would not give mafia a reason to target me, again using my own self meta would be crazy to justify a lynch, and ive seen mafia doctors... uggh im confused..
If I were lying, town can CC for a 1 for 1 trade. Presuming both RBers are town-aligned is a stretch, and Shin, if you believe him, says his RB can't affect the NK anyways. Reviver != doc. Even if you wonder if I'm lying, you still give the scum the choice of having me block the kill, or just taking me out.
That too, to a lesser extent.
I'm pretty sure I've got at least 3/4 in that list now, possibly all 4. I've done six-page or more PBPAs on each player in the town at this point, for all players who have posted that much. So Cyth is really the only remaining null for me. Everyone else is pretty well divvied up.
lol. and great I get my suspects to roleblock. vigshot on em next. Shinichi is dead to me anyways.
it's easy to figure out. Azrael has done more than Iso has up to now. and really...do you think it's easy to be a doctor with BP restrictions?
Be grateful, always."
Role name Diana
Flavor paraphrase about having murdered six people, no, miscount, actually six billion. (You know, nice, friendly sounding stuff.)
Then my text goes on to say I'm actually very mild, non-violent person and my *searches for synonyms* hospital skills will help me live through this. (HA! Because being the doctor totally doesn't make you a lightning rod)
Then some stuff about feeling a lot of pressure, not being adequate to meet the heavy demands on me, disliking myself because of that.
Abilities are 3 BP, -2 to doc. Since a couple of days ago I debated about lying and saying I have an additional ability where I can burn myself out to block the kill, but *shrug*, probably not believable by either alignment and I think I got the scum pinned down anyways, so whatever happens next, feels less critical at the moment.
not sure about Jenna/Tom....
Be grateful, always."
Idk... both Iso/Shin are in a wierd spot, they both pop in, and literally bring either nothing to the table, or the same ***** they've been saying for days... and I dont understand wth they are trying to accomplish if they are town...
and im willing to leave jenna/tom alone for today, unless I find some new information
I don't think that #3738 comes from scum!Iso. I'm not 100% certain that Azrael is scum, although I'm inclined to believe so, but Iso looks very good this game.
#3745 is pure lousy defensiveness. This sort of post is the primary reason why I'm not enthused by Lastwhisper this game.
Okay, so in #3749, Lastwhisper is "still skeptical about everyone." In #3752 he thinks that Az and I are scum, but waffles on Az. In #3794, he suggests Az scum, Iso town, and Osie scum. In #3798 he has Az confusing, Osie scum. #3903 and #3920 reiterate Az neutral. In #3932, the readlist, Osie scum because of "not enough scumleans" Day 1. #3992 moves Terry down to scumlean.
That's… not a completely unreasonable progression. I was almost expecting to see some strange, unexplained flips, but most of that was reasonable.
In #3932, Last's read of Meg is bad. I will readily admit to the lightest of scumleans from AFK. But it's not this sort of vehement response. The comment about me is… weird. Like, I've gone into some detail on my reads, and I would think it would be clear from what I've posted what section of my reads is what I might call "POE."
#3932: "Im willing to believe [Shinichi's] town"
#4004: (Re: Shinichi) "I never said you were town"
I actually like #4027. That could be legit frustration.
Unvote, though still concerned.
Re: Az #3860 - Eww… Reeks of sanctimonious manipulation and a bad argument.
On the other hand, Az's claim (skipping ahead a bit) is conceivable. But not strictly legit enough to clear him, especially given who it is.
Vote: Azrael
Re: Dawn #3861 - I like how Lastwhisper has no concern about Dawn not coming out with scumreads here, but when I put people in null or say that I don't have definite scum, it's a travesty. Also, this post includes some very weird reasons, but I'll think about that further later.
Re: LnGrrrR #3863 - Yeah, there's no way that Az is mason.
Re: Kaba #3866 - /BARN
Re: Dawn #3867, #3869 - What does this even mean? This is so bad. I really hope that there's at least 1 scum in Dawningbluesky and Lastwhisper, because 2 experienced, but scummy-looking town players defending each other vehemently over the whole game would be mind-bogglingly ridiculous.
More to come.
Iso/Shin
Jenna/Tom = doubt it
Osie/Terry = maybe
Cyth = idk
my claim counters Iso/Shin in one. killing + roleblocking.
I still wanna hear you though. why Azrael over Iso? what has Iso done that is better?
role name
flavor paraphrase
then my text
then some stuff
abilities
"role name" diana isn't the literal thing, it's just a wording. I don't think we should lynch the doc, unless counterclaimed.
those posts are explained later, since they're part of a thought process. and no, I don't think Last is scum.
"2 experienced, but scummy-looking town players defending each other vehemently over the whole game would be mind-bogglingly ridiculous"
shading us like that is just...bad.
Iso/Shin = scum
Osie/Terry = maybe
Cyth = idk
one of these could be tpr, the rest is scum.
I can bend with the townlean on Terry since tied trains are harder to read.
Tom/Jenna = just in case
hmm I think Terry was referring to titles.. welp
@LnG @Jenna @Azrael
what are the titles of your roles (e.g. mine is daredevil)
Be grateful, always."
#3773: Thank you!
#3792: How DARE you take this argument!?! You're the person who started and pushed for a CFD to Grapefruit!
LET'S KILL AZRAEL IN THE FIRES OF A THOUSAND BURNING SUNS.
#3795: LnGrrrR is very likely to be town.
#3803 Yeah, the only thing I can think of here is that Last's claim was just ambiguous enough to potentially allow him to pass any amount of BP at any time.
The reactive bullying from Iso in #3813 is less than helpful.
#3828: THIS IS THE SONG, THEMED ABOUT THE SCUMLORD. THIS IS THE FIGHT, TOWN VERSUS AZ! HE TRIED TO KILL US WITH A FORKLIFT! OLÉ!
#3829: Ehh. This is a pretty meh post.
#3832: I don't think that A/B claims actually provide any significant advantage to scum OVER town… Certainly much less than role claims.
Re: #3858: My current POE: Az/LW/KJ/Cythare/Dawn. In very rough order of more to less certain.
#3861 consistency check:
Votes from Dawning between then and the next readlist: Jenna #3862 "best choice", Osie #4015 "next best thing"
#4249 consistency check:
Votes from Dawning between then and the next readlist: Shinichi #4479 (after lots of buildup), Osie #4559 "back to better things"
OH HEY, #4414 actually includes a somewhat reasonable partial argument for why Dawning might scumread me. It's wrong, and why she couldn't say that in response to being asked, no clue. But it's at least something.
Dawning's nasty self-vindication has been appalling since it first came up in day 1.
#4564 consistency check:
Votes from Dawning between then and the next readlist: Iso #4702 "Because Az is probably town"
Random thoughts:
More to come. (Note to self: Starting back up at 3863 tomorrow evening.)
maybe its a little noteworthy that iso's original push on az (and me) fell apart entirely if jenna isnt scum, but it did transition into more about az's push on him.
eh i think iso/az is pretty unlikely
but
i can see a world
and having this one right after it to quote instead of a giant wall is actually quite convenient...
az can you talk me through how you cleared shin in the first place?
unvote, vote osi
Thanks for the analysis, though it felt like it was majorly dealing with the facts of matter rather than the substance. Of course someone is allowed to change their mind, but does it follow? Personally I don't believe it does, but your analysis wouldn't have helped me come to that conclusion.
I'm not known for making smart decisions in games.
For example, I was considering a reaction test. I would say that both you and Phoenix-Fire visited D_V. Knowing what we know now with how Phoenix-Fire came out, how would you react to Phoenix-Fire confirming the visit?
Jenna
I mean it is still possible that Terry visited DV, its highly possible actually, but it could maybe be that he assumed that you were gunna lie about what he did? But again that can also make little to no sense, because if you were the tracker or watcher you wouldnt know what he did... But im gunna safely assume that there was ill intent with his reaction and still keep him as a town lean, I sorta liked his answer to the reaction, and I dont want to focus on him today...
Osie
Maybe I am wrong, but before Day 2, I was more ok believing that Shin was scum than town, and but I think he allied me because he wanted me to use my ability, which in the end I didnt end up doing... but I cant get over his tunnel of Dawn... So like I'm ok beleving that he may be town, but its def not locked in... and reads change, get over it...
*no ill intent
give me an example of qhat made u think he had insider information.. if i can remember some of those posts
if u*
so atm which do you think has a higher chance of flipping scum?
Also, Doc claim is scumfakeclaim 101. We should be lynching Az with prejudice.
I would suggest you refresh yourself on my case on Az, dawn, rather than assuming I don't have one. There's a nifty tool that you can use to do that that I linked tom to earlier.
Anyway, Az has dictated the pace of this game entirely too much for someone who's clearly been intentionally misleading us from when he started making real posts. If Az flips town, I will happily eat a lynch next. But he won't. So let's kill him.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So. Many. Posts.
No reads so far, as I'm literally on page 2.
On second thought, maybe I just catch up with Today's stuff to be able to semi-participate and then fill in Day 1 afterwards? idk man
96 pages is a lot.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Does this mean you'll blindly sheep me and vote Az? He just claimed Doctor.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Wrong cause because both mine and iso skills are a passive we can't control it
Also where did this association with me and iso come from?
Maybe I just need to switch real Terry and Jenna, that was ridiculous. Osie I think is just terribly but honestly mistaken, but man, those reads are tunneled hard. Idk, Terry could just be having an awful read too I suppose, but should at least be in the conversation. Bunch of personality/playstyle based cases I think is the issue, as if I don't defend cases/gather info in a like manner consistently. Terry is literally still making my claimimg scum habit a central point in his case after being told I've done that for twelve years. And jumping on my not stating the completely obvious role name like it's some kind of smoking gun. No. You're just not being objective.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Again with the counter claim, if there is no duplicates then what? My role aint similar to yours at all, outside of stopping abilities.
Iso makes a good point there have been alot of protective role claims and the fact he hid is role name says alot because everoyne has seemed to have some kind of role name.
Mine being the Town Manipulator.
Vengeful is normally mafia aligned, unless hes stating hes PGO which aint the case.
Doc claim is either CC or let it go to night and see if the scum kill it, 101. And what do you mean, "since I started" making real posts. Iso, you haven't made a "real post" this entire game. And I'm the bad guy for trying to rally this completely wchizophrenic, leaderless town to actually consolidate and make some lunches? Get out of here, scum Iso. If I really were scum, I'd be doing exactly what you are right now. Sitting on my butt, not trying to bail this town out and kick it into some semblance of a plan.
Cite that. You mean to tell me you've gone through 15 years of azrael games and figured that out? No, you're talking out of your ass, bc no one is really bothering to call you on any of your lies and laziness, except dawn.
I mean DBS has the 2 different abilities while everyone elses abilities corridinate pretty well.
I feel like roles that have to rely too much on betrayal lean more towards the scum side but i obviously have no way to support that do to DV and GF roles being town aligned while costing so much.
Jenna/Az/Phoenix/DBS/Wisp
Feel like their roles have the highest chance of being scum based on ability
Im replying to this knowing AZ claimed doctor atleast thats what i read
-Coming into a game playing at 2 different personalities in my opinion is a form of trolling, nonetheless shes still being helpful.
-I am getting to the point where ISO is just being scum that is hiding behind is really large ego, but Idk if that just me starting to get fustrated at his way of thinking.
-Your role can be scum aligned, I mean from my experience alot of roles that have passive effects that once killed hinder town align more with scum to eep us from wanting to lynch said person. Overall I do believe your ability is way to convienent.
-I won't lynch a lurker for lurking give a better reason and maybe that will persuaude me
-Mod Error or not I don't like how Jenna is taking advantage of that to claim you have to be town, when I still barely see it.
-I full claimed obviously paraphrased eactly what was in my role pm take that with a grain of salt if you will, im not used to people having to PM their kills abilities yes, but not night kills.
-Why wont you lynch LW?
Moron lol this was a post on page 93, az hadnt claimed yet so I wanted people to know I added AZ doc claim as a possibl role that could be scummy whats not to get?
You can give people BP? Sounds like a nice role for scum does it not? Phoenix role basically holds town by a noose which is what worries me.
Also forgot to put The vengeful claim in that list of people
of course my ability can be helpful for both alignments... Lol, why are u focused on my role claim all of a sudden...
Still dont understand what you would have gained from it? What if she is actually town and your so called false cc you were planning to make got her mislynched?
CAUSE OF THE POST THAT WAS POINTING OUT THE ROLES, are you seriously being that dense right now?