tbh I really like ur reads in most games, but right now Im gunna go with my gut and say Tom is scum here, I mean me and you have been wrong/right around 50/50, so Ill take my chances.
Tom has spent most of the day so far, commenting on peoples posts against me, and trying to get people to vote me... lol
do you think Shinichi is town? I'm starting to think otherwise. I mean, I could be wrong about him being town..
@Az: Why do you keep specifying that I said that I was a town aligned murderer, but aren't linking that to anything else? I feel like if you're consistantly alluding to that, you'd be wondering why I never said anything at the time that Dawn claimed Vig, nor was really interested in Iso's vig claim either. It's kind of a weird reaction.
@Az/Iso: Is it not even remotely suspicious to either of you, that you both think each other are scum with the same people?I would also like people to answer this question.-_-
Murderer is just flavor, doesn't necessarily mean a killing role. Although, this particular observation of yours makes that a far more likely possibility. You sure you don't want to claim to be the scummy neutral player?
I don't put it past Iso to include 2 scum in his list, but apparently, from the way things are shaping up, I'm rustier than I thought. Or maybe I just need to remember how often I change my reads right before a lynch, provided an actual claim/defense takes place. Didn't really have those fail-safes with Grape.
I've had enough of your role fishing. Stop now and claim your results. I'm deliberately not answering whether to not I visited DV last night because this is me calling BS on Jenna.
Prove your role...
Best defense is a good offense is the mentality I'm seeing with Terry here. Effectively a scum claim. No one else is catching this?
She knows she's caught. If no one else has figured out why, I'm disappointed and if you have figured out why and you're letting me have the glory of roasting her alive... THANK YOU!
Your glory? I was more watching Jenna's steely nerves in the face of your panicked counter-attack with glowing admiration, actually.
But she's not really the watcher. She's trolling the thread and distracting us from being more productive. She's asking the WHOLE GAME to claim their roles!!!!!!! This is not acceptable behavior. She should have been lynched yesterday and if she is town I will not lose any sleep over her flip. Take grapefruit for example, even though he knew he was going to be mislynched he didn't claim his role. That's a good townie. If Jenna is town, she's doing a bad job.
We can add misrep and hyperbole to the list of tells you've committed. Asking players whether or not they targeted DV is hardly equivalent to a mass-claim.
I don't understand why a townie would panick and OMGUS the way you have to Jenna merely stating that she was a watcher, who targeted DV. Feeling pretty happy about cutting you from my town list in advance of her claim. Vote is staying right where it is.
Haha this is working out better than I imagined. AZ just claimed scum too. For such a fearsome rep, I expected AZ to have figured out that Jenna is lying on his own, but clearly he hasn't and now he's pushing some preschool mafia case on me. Like it was so bad and forced. LW actually impressed me calling him on that.
I suspect we become unlikely allies in season 2. Season 1 finale coming soon.
Osieorb: Killjoy got a chat
LastWhisper: I didnt do anything last night
LnGrrrR: I didn't use an ability/visit anyone last Night.
Azrael: I did not target DV last night.
Dawningbluesky: Did I visit D_V last night? no. my roleblock ability is activated now though.
Shinichi: Nope, Can't visit anyone till I get 4 bp. I have 2 bp
Tom: I have nothing to claim.
Killjoy: I did not.
Phoenix-Fire: I have nothing relevant for you.
Iso: I don't have any activated abilities. There is nothing for me to claim.
Axelrod: I did nothing to DV last night
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry: (No response)
Kabazame: (No response)
Cythare: (No response)
The reason I had everyone run through this exercise was that I had to be absolutely certain my report was on the murderer. Should someone say "I didn't do it" but another person say "I visited D_V, but I only did something good to him," the liar is the murderer. Should multiple parties proclaim innocence through good abilities, well that's a shame and a whole side-arc. The good news is that that didn't happen. The bad news? There is no bad news, only better news. This issue is entirely sidestepped due to one person coming forth as a liar, so bold that my suspicion of Terry couldn't thrive as he strode through a battle of horse***** with only minor burns. An admirable feat, I must say. So for those of you left loopless, it is simply a case of me not knowing the full picture. Importantly, sounding like I know the full story yet not knowing if my impression is the original, yet taking careful steps to both emphasize my watchful creed, while avoiding anything outside the truth. As an example, a painful yet calculated decision to not answer the question posed: why did I target D_V? He was certainly a suspect of mine but not the strongest, coming off as more of a lunkhead than one with malice. So perhaps it is not beyond a doubt's shadow that I watch him. But therein lies the assumption. Remember, the episode I just described contained imperfect information. And how is it such? Well, I will give you this brief moment to pause in your reading and review the clues before the reveal. Imperfect information, a quest for the full picture, a weak read on D_V. Hopefully at this point you have at least come to the answer, or at the very least figured out that the third point is a red herring. There was no targeting of D_V, not a watchful eye but a tracker that followed Phoenix-Fire throughout the night and saw him visiting D_V. The crux behind the imperfect story needed to be made perfect. The murderer's lie all the more damning by its own creation.
also Shinichi
I clearly said I'd betray so why in the hell did you ally???
D.V and grrr were probably the only ones I wouldnt have betrayed, but of course I wasnt gunna say that....
I had some trust in my own god damn brother lol, but oh well :/. You just made it alot harder for me to use my ability which could really help town in the long run.
I give u BP, no worry lmao
oh that's where I saw someone give Shinichi BP
I've got another question after, and maybe a comment.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
How common is factional killing on this site? Tom brought it up before and now I'm wondering... Either way I still want to see what Phoenix has to say about this
also Shinichi
I clearly said I'd betray so why in the hell did you ally???
D.V and grrr were probably the only ones I wouldnt have betrayed, but of course I wasnt gunna say that....
I had some trust in my own god damn brother lol, but oh well :/. You just made it alot harder for me to use my ability which could really help town in the long run.
I give u BP, no worry lmao
oh that's where I saw someone give Shinichi BP
I've got another question after, and maybe a comment.
Im also still kinda wondering why Jenna said that, but it could be that she misread something,and I think she did give some sorta answer in the past pages
I had some trust in my own god damn brother lol, but oh well :/. You just made it alot harder for me to use my ability which could really help town in the long run.
I give u BP, no worry lmao
oh that's where I saw someone give Shinichi BP
I've got another question after, and maybe a comment.
Im also still kinda wondering why Jenna said that, but it could be that she misread something,and I think she did give some sorta answer in the past pages
ohh wait i ****ed up lol, i misread the quote, this was his answer to why he said i thought shin got 1 BP. ignore my prev question lol
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
The possibility of tracker gambit did occur to me given the mass-claim format, but I presumed from Terry's reaction that he would have been the tracker target, not Phoenix. Gambit into immediate counter-gambit is...interesting.
Well, I suppose I was looking for more room in my POE. He would have had me, if that's true. Jenna sacrificial play seems somewhat more likely given this choice of target, however.
VOTE JENNA
One gaping hole in your narrative, I don't have any active abilities, just passive; full claim so we can lynch Jenna (Though I'm incredibly unhappy that I'm outed):
I'm Carlos, Town First Responder
Passive:
Scene of the Crime: Whenever a player dies, you will gather info about their role. When their alignment is revealed, as long as you are alive, that info will be public, showing all of their ability details and starting BP. If your BP reaches zero by betrayal, this ability passes to the player who betrayed you. If you die in any other way, it does not pass.
VOTE JENNA
One gaping hole in your narrative, I don't have any active abilities, just passive; full claim so we can lynch Jenna (Though I'm incredibly unhappy that I'm outed):
I'm Carlos, Town First Responder
Passive:
Scene of the Crime: Whenever a player dies, you will gather info about their role. When their alignment is revealed, as long as you are alive, that info will be public, showing all of their ability details and starting BP. If your BP reaches zero by betrayal, this ability passes to the player who betrayed you. If you die in any other way, it does not pass.
VOTE JENNA
One gaping hole in your narrative, I don't have any active abilities, just passive; full claim so we can lynch Jenna (Though I'm incredibly unhappy that I'm outed):
I'm Carlos, Town First Responder
Passive:
Scene of the Crime: Whenever a player dies, you will gather info about their role. When their alignment is revealed, as long as you are alive, that info will be public, showing all of their ability details and starting BP. If your BP reaches zero by betrayal, this ability passes to the player who betrayed you. If you die in any other way, it does not pass.
but u couldve made the nk? what?
thats literally what weve been discussing, factional vs non factional and their possibilities in this game... and i dont see why Jenna would even lie... bunch a he said she said bs at this point tho
VOTE JENNA
One gaping hole in your narrative, I don't have any active abilities, just passive; full claim so we can lynch Jenna (Though I'm incredibly unhappy that I'm outed):
I'm Carlos, Town First Responder
Passive:
Scene of the Crime: Whenever a player dies, you will gather info about their role. When their alignment is revealed, as long as you are alive, that info will be public, showing all of their ability details and starting BP. If your BP reaches zero by betrayal, this ability passes to the player who betrayed you. If you die in any other way, it does not pass.
Well, um, that's not a gaping hole, in as much as presumably it doesn't matter if you have any "active" abilities to do the Mafia Night-kill.
Do I understand this claim to mean that your role is why we are currently getting the full role PMs revealed to us of the people who die?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
VOTE JENNA
One gaping hole in your narrative, I don't have any active abilities, just passive; full claim so we can lynch Jenna (Though I'm incredibly unhappy that I'm outed):
I'm Carlos, Town First Responder
Passive:
Scene of the Crime: Whenever a player dies, you will gather info about their role. When their alignment is revealed, as long as you are alive, that info will be public, showing all of their ability details and starting BP. If your BP reaches zero by betrayal, this ability passes to the player who betrayed you. If you die in any other way, it does not pass.
but u couldve made the nk? what?
thats literally what weve been discussing, factional vs non factional and their possibilities in this game... and i dont see why Jenna would even lie... bunch a he said she said bs at this point tho
since i do like playing devils adovcate, i do kinda have a theory about why scum!Jenna would do this, which ill post once im out of class
VOTE JENNA
One gaping hole in your narrative, I don't have any active abilities, just passive; full claim so we can lynch Jenna (Though I'm incredibly unhappy that I'm outed):
I'm Carlos, Town First Responder
Passive:
Scene of the Crime: Whenever a player dies, you will gather info about their role. When their alignment is revealed, as long as you are alive, that info will be public, showing all of their ability details and starting BP. If your BP reaches zero by betrayal, this ability passes to the player who betrayed you. If you die in any other way, it does not pass.
Well, um, that's not a gaping hole, in as much as presumably it doesn't matter if you have any "active" abilities to do the Mafia Night-kill.
Do I understand this claim to mean that your role is why we are currently getting the full role PMs revealed to us of the people who die?
VOTE JENNA
One gaping hole in your narrative, I don't have any active abilities, just passive; full claim so we can lynch Jenna (Though I'm incredibly unhappy that I'm outed):
I'm Carlos, Town First Responder
Passive:
Scene of the Crime: Whenever a player dies, you will gather info about their role. When their alignment is revealed, as long as you are alive, that info will be public, showing all of their ability details and starting BP. If your BP reaches zero by betrayal, this ability passes to the player who betrayed you. If you die in any other way, it does not pass.
Well, um, that's not a gaping hole, in as much as presumably it doesn't matter if you have any "active" abilities to do the Mafia Night-kill.
Do I understand this claim to mean that your role is why we are currently getting the full role PMs revealed to us of the people who die?
And if so, in that other game, did he do full role PM reveals on death? I've seen it done both ways.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
i mean i believe Pheonix's claim but i feel like as helpful as his passive is, he could still be mafia under it, but hell if im taking that chance, if he dies the only thing we will get from death flips is alignment, which then we wouldnt be able to spot fake claims
A quick and no doubt incomplete check finds two games modded by Bur on this site, both of which had roles fully revealed on death much like in this game. Can't definitely say it's a pattern, but it appears to be his preferred style.
So, that's not a good look for Phoenix.
Caveat, I do not know if there were roles in any of those other games that had anything to do with role PMs being revealed on deaths.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
A quick and no doubt incomplete check finds two games modded by Bur on this site, both of which had roles fully revealed on death much like in this game. Can't definitely say it's a pattern, but it appears to be his preferred style.
So, that's not a good look for Phoenix.
Caveat, I do not know if there were roles in any of those other games that had anything to do with role PMs being revealed on deaths.
i mean its one hell of a role to make up, i dont see this as a lie, i just dont believe its neseccarily town or mafia...
Revolution//Trigger Happy//Clan Contest IX, all appear to have had full role PM reveals on deaths.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Revolution//Trigger Happy//Clan Contest IX, all appear to have had full role PM reveals on deaths.
mine did also, i think? dont wuote me yet, i gotta check, and my game was also off site
For the record, I'm gonna be ticked if I get lynched because Bur made a new decision as a mod.
If you guys want to lynch me because you just don't believe me or think I'm more likely scum over Jenna, fine, she still gets lynched tomorrow, but don't use modgaming as the reason.
Well, it's unfortunate that, in addition to meaning that Bur would have had to have adopted a new style, you also have a claim that is as best I can tell completely unverifiable.
I am not on board a Phoenix lynch, yet. I've still got questions. And he's just seemed so Town to me. But I have doubts as well.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Well, it's unfortunate that, in addition to meaning that Bur would have had to have adopted a new style, you also have a claim that is as best I can tell completely unverifiable.
I am not on board a Phoenix lynch, yet. I've still got questions. And he's just seemed so Town to me. But I have doubts as well.
I'll try and be a little more available today to answer anything that's asked.
Paraphrasing Bur:
Just so you know, gathering information about dead players requires that you passively visit them, should any ability exist that sees who visits another player/who another player visits, your ability will cause you to show up on their report.
Paraphrasing Bur:
Just so you know, gathering information about dead players requires that you passively visit them, should any ability exist that sees who visits another player/who another player visits, your ability will cause you to show up on their report.
Unvote
Holy crap, I'm so sorry.
ok I guess I can do this then. unvote so ur saying u passively pick someone to visit? Nvm NVM I get it, u passively travel to the people that die during the night. I think? So I guess we can move on from Jenna and Phoenix?
So again we don't know who may have killed DV? I gives this reason again to look at why Terry was so aggressive... I mean there's two sides to this, at least that's how I see it. He was mad because Jenna was rolefishing, or he's mad because her Gambit probably caught him... Well at least Jenna got a lot of people talking lol.
And Phoenix is more understanding then Terry is, that's for sure
Paraphrasing Bur:
Just so you know, gathering information about dead players requires that you passively visit them, should any ability exist that sees who visits another player/who another player visits, your ability will cause you to show up on their report.
Unvote
Holy crap, I'm so sorry.
ok I guess I can do this then. unvote so ur saying u passively pick someone to visit? Nvm NVM I get it, u passively travel to the people that die during the night. I think? So I guess we can move on from Jenna and Phoenix?
Correct. I passively VISIT each player when they die to collect info. That's why Jenna saw me go to DV.
Wait if Jenna was just a tracker, then how could she tell if anyone but her target lied? And I just realized this didn't even guarantee that Phoenix killed DV... And Phoenix never lied (technjcally he did) but that's because he didn't know... Which is why I wish people would ask all the questions they need about their roles before the game gets on it's way :/
Paraphrasing Bur:
Just so you know, gathering information about dead players requires that you passively visit them, should any ability exist that sees who visits another player/who another player visits, your ability will cause you to show up on their report.
Unvote
Holy crap, I'm so sorry.
ok I guess I can do this then. unvote so ur saying u passively pick someone to visit? Nvm NVM I get it, u passively travel to the people that die during the night. I think? So I guess we can move on from Jenna and Phoenix?
Correct. I passively VISIT each player when they die to collect info. That's why Jenna saw me go to DV.
Paraphrasing Bur:
Just so you know, gathering information about dead players requires that you passively visit them, should any ability exist that sees who visits another player/who another player visits, your ability will cause you to show up on their report.
Unvote
Holy crap, I'm so sorry.
ok I guess I can do this then. unvote so ur saying u passively pick someone to visit? Nvm NVM I get it, u passively travel to the people that die during the night. I think? So I guess we can move on from Jenna and Phoenix?
Correct. I passively VISIT each player when they die to collect info. That's why Jenna saw me go to DV.
makes sense with the name "first responder" u have to actually go to the scene of the crime to know who died and everything about them... Very interesting role imo
Jenna could def still be scum here, I jumped to a premature conclusion, plus I had a theory about Jenna that I still want to post later if I still remember after I get home lll
So we are supposed to have a "Tracker" in this game and also a role that will always be seen to be "visiting" the deceased?
Really?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Paraphrasing Bur:
Just so you know, gathering information about dead players requires that you passively visit them, should any ability exist that sees who visits another player/who another player visits, your ability will cause you to show up on their report.
Unvote
Holy crap, I'm so sorry.
So, was this information in your original role PM and you forgot about it, or did you just get this clarification from Bur?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Osieorb: Killjoy got a chat
LastWhisper: I didnt do anything last night
LnGrrrR: I didn't use an ability/visit anyone last Night.
Azrael: I did not target DV last night.
Dawningbluesky: Did I visit D_V last night? no. my roleblock ability is activated now though.
Shinichi: Nope, Can't visit anyone till I get 4 bp. I have 2 bp
Tom: I have nothing to claim.
Killjoy: I did not.
Phoenix-Fire: I have nothing relevant for you.
Iso: I don't have any activated abilities. There is nothing for me to claim.
Axelrod: I did nothing to DV last night
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry: (No response)
Kabazame: (No response)
Cythare: (No response)
The reason I had everyone run through this exercise was that I had to be absolutely certain my report was on the murderer. Should someone say "I didn't do it" but another person say "I visited D_V, but I only did something good to him," the liar is the murderer. Should multiple parties proclaim innocence through good abilities, well that's a shame and a whole side-arc. The good news is that that didn't happen. The bad news? There is no bad news, only better news. This issue is entirely sidestepped due to one person coming forth as a liar, so bold that my suspicion of Terry couldn't thrive as he strode through a battle of horse***** with only minor burns. An admirable feat, I must say. So for those of you left loopless, it is simply a case of me not knowing the full picture. Importantly, sounding like I know the full story yet not knowing if my impression is the original, yet taking careful steps to both emphasize my watchful creed, while avoiding anything outside the truth. As an example, a painful yet calculated decision to not answer the question posed: why did I target D_V? He was certainly a suspect of mine but not the strongest, coming off as more of a lunkhead than one with malice. So perhaps it is not beyond a doubt's shadow that I watch him. But therein lies the assumption. Remember, the episode I just described contained imperfect information. And how is it such? Well, I will give you this brief moment to pause in your reading and review the clues before the reveal. Imperfect information, a quest for the full picture, a weak read on D_V. Hopefully at this point you have at least come to the answer, or at the very least figured out that the third point is a red herring. There was no targeting of D_V, not a watchful eye but a tracker that followed Phoenix-Fire throughout the night and saw him visiting D_V. The crux behind the imperfect story needed to be made perfect. The murderer's lie all the more damning by its own creation.
Vote: Phoenix-Fire
@Terry, do you still want to counter claim, or do you trust her?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Jenna, explain this:
I've got another question after, and maybe a comment.
Vote PheonixFire
The possibility of tracker gambit did occur to me given the mass-claim format, but I presumed from Terry's reaction that he would have been the tracker target, not Phoenix. Gambit into immediate counter-gambit is...interesting.
Well, I suppose I was looking for more room in my POE. He would have had me, if that's true. Jenna sacrificial play seems somewhat more likely given this choice of target, however.
One gaping hole in your narrative, I don't have any active abilities, just passive; full claim so we can lynch Jenna (Though I'm incredibly unhappy that I'm outed):
I'm Carlos, Town First Responder
Passive:
Scene of the Crime: Whenever a player dies, you will gather info about their role. When their alignment is revealed, as long as you are alive, that info will be public, showing all of their ability details and starting BP. If your BP reaches zero by betrayal, this ability passes to the player who betrayed you. If you die in any other way, it does not pass.
Well, um, that's not a gaping hole, in as much as presumably it doesn't matter if you have any "active" abilities to do the Mafia Night-kill.
Do I understand this claim to mean that your role is why we are currently getting the full role PMs revealed to us of the people who die?
And if so, in that other game, did he do full role PM reveals on death? I've seen it done both ways.
So, that's not a good look for Phoenix.
Caveat, I do not know if there were roles in any of those other games that had anything to do with role PMs being revealed on deaths.
I am not on board a Phoenix lynch, yet. I've still got questions. And he's just seemed so Town to me. But I have doubts as well.
Paraphrasing Bur:
Just so you know, gathering information about dead players requires that you passively visit them, should any ability exist that sees who visits another player/who another player visits, your ability will cause you to show up on their report.
Unvote
Holy crap, I'm so sorry.
And Phoenix is more understanding then Terry is, that's for sure
Really?
So, was this information in your original role PM and you forgot about it, or did you just get this clarification from Bur?
If this is a scumbag claim... It's a damn good one. It's an incredibly flavorful take on Carlos.
@Axel: Why auto Vote Jenna here? I'm not sure there's necessarily a dichotomy here.