See, you guys wonder why I keep harping on mechanics, and it is because people keep asking questions.
Except - and I think you know this - the issue is that this is essentially all you are doing. You have barely commented about other people in this game. You're not giving opinions on them, or even giving the appearance that you're trying to find out their alignments.
Looking back through your stuff, the sum total of opinions of other players I see essentially amounts to:
(1) Voting for DBS, in what looks a lot like a bandwagon vote.
(2) Shin may have "townslipped"
(3) Don't like Killjoy b/c his reads are opposite to yours (which you haven't expressed). Then say GF's reads are opposite as well, but this may be just a difference of opinion.
(4) very early you said you "liked" Terry so far.
And, like, that's about it. The majority of your stuff is arguing/defending the idea that anyone who Betrays should be viewed with suspicion. There is also very little of what I would consider scum-hunting.
So, what are those opinions that you supposedly have?
@Azrael earlier this page you were talking about trusting Iso enough to let him betray you if it wasn't for your low BP (post 672 sorry for no links on mobile) but in 680 you have him in your scum pool. What changed?
Felt the same way reading that. And I really didn't much care for the "Iso was more neutral, but I didn't have enough scum in my scumlists so I bumped him down..." explanation.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Azrael I'm surprised you would say you would consider letting a mostly neutral read betray you (if you had BP to spare) Can you explain that further. Still not seeing that progression.
@KJ I don't agree at all that Osie is scum just that you had some good points. I think Osie is town. That is why I made that connection.
@Killjoy: I just noticed your Title. You trying to say something with that. Hmmmm?
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Az, believe you missed my request to expound upon your read of me.Also, you got my claim wrong, (I claimed 4 BP, not more than 5.)
Much of the time, my game is based upon identifying townies by virtue of mindset, tone, and emotional tells that are very, very difficult for scum to fake. Once I have weeded out the players who I can't clear, usually about a third of the thread, I look in that pile for anyone with particularly artificial styles, inappropriate focus, and all your other classic scum tells.
You didn't make the cut in round one, and you were on the bottom of the barrel for round two. Nothing you posted looked to be coming from a game solving mentality, you looked to be simply going through the motions.
@Azrael I'm surprised you would say you would consider letting a mostly neutral read betray you (if you had BP to spare) Can you explain that further. Still not seeing that progression.
@KJ I don't agree at all that Osie is scum just that you had some good points. I think Osie is town. That is why I made that connection.
You are comparing pre and post iso reads. He descended lower during my read through, from generally benign and baseline town (75% likely town), to one of the handful that I couldn't read or clear out. I would not be psyched about giving him points right this moment.
See, you guys wonder why I keep harping on mechanics, and it is because people keep asking questions.
Except - and I think you know this - the issue is that this is essentially all you are doing. You have barely commented about other people in this game. You're not giving opinions on them, or even giving the appearance that you're trying to find out their alignments.
Looking back through your stuff, the sum total of opinions of other players I see essentially amounts to:
(1) Voting for DBS, in what looks a lot like a bandwagon vote.
(2) Shin may have "townslipped"
(3) Don't like Killjoy b/c his reads are opposite to yours (which you haven't expressed). Then say GF's reads are opposite as well, but this may be just a difference of opinion.
(4) very early you said you "liked" Terry so far.
And, like, that's about it. The majority of your stuff is arguing/defending the idea that anyone who Betrays should be viewed with suspicion. There is also very little of what I would consider scum-hunting.
So, what are those opinions that you supposedly have?
@Azrael earlier this page you were talking about trusting Iso enough to let him betray you if it wasn't for your low BP (post 672 sorry for no links on mobile) but in 680 you have him in your scum pool. What changed?
Felt the same way reading that. And I really didn't much care for the "Iso was more neutral, but I didn't have enough scum in my scumlists so I bumped him down..." explanation.
I don't have an unlimited amount of time to post. I believe you also missed a vote on Whisper, and I noted KJ's weird "vote orb even though he isnt that scummy" before Iso, but whatever. Anyways though, I like Az, DV, Shin and Terry for town. Tom, Osi and you are leantown. Leanscum on KJ. Scum read on LastWhisper and DawnSky. The rest I am undecided/neutral on. I don't think I said that KJ and GF's reads were opposite mine, but their thoughts regarding mechanics.
See, you guys wonder why I keep harping on mechanics, and it is because people keep asking questions.
Except - and I think you know this - the issue is that this is essentially all you are doing. You have barely commented about other people in this game. You're not giving opinions on them, or even giving the appearance that you're trying to find out their alignments.
Looking back through your stuff, the sum total of opinions of other players I see essentially amounts to:
(1) Voting for DBS, in what looks a lot like a bandwagon vote.
(2) Shin may have "townslipped"
(3) Don't like Killjoy b/c his reads are opposite to yours (which you haven't expressed). Then say GF's reads are opposite as well, but this may be just a difference of opinion.
(4) very early you said you "liked" Terry so far.
And, like, that's about it. The majority of your stuff is arguing/defending the idea that anyone who Betrays should be viewed with suspicion. There is also very little of what I would consider scum-hunting.
So, what are those opinions that you supposedly have?
@Azrael earlier this page you were talking about trusting Iso enough to let him betray you if it wasn't for your low BP (post 672 sorry for no links on mobile) but in 680 you have him in your scum pool. What changed?
Felt the same way reading that. And I really didn't much care for the "Iso was more neutral, but I didn't have enough scum in my scumlists so I bumped him down..." explanation.
I don't have an unlimited amount of time to post. I believe you also missed a vote on Whisper, and I noted KJ's weird "vote orb even though he isnt that scummy" before Iso, but whatever. Anyways though, I like Az, DV, Shin and Terry for town. Tom, Osi and you are leantown. Leanscum on KJ. Scum read on LastWhisper and DawnSky. The rest I am undecided/neutral on. I don't think I said that KJ and GF's reads were opposite mine, but their thoughts regarding mechanics.
Dont see how u could easily have town reads on AZ, DV or anything but a neutral on Osi /shrug
1. why do you still believe I am scum?
2. are you scum reading dawn of her own accord, or for her white knight on me?
3. How do you see Az's wish washing behavior as town?
4. Do u just agree with everyone that doesnt like me? lol
and for those who wonder why I don't out my role, that's solely because its a tool that shouldn't be shared so lightly, and there were many games were I was left to defend my self against power woofers, as a lowly VT, so I'd rather not use my role as a way of clearing my self this early. Which honestly I dont even understand why so many people are scum leaning me...
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A few notes:
Grapefruit: He just seems so open with his thoughts and no nonsense in his reads. I like his back and forth with Dawning.
Axelrod: He had some of the same thoughts as I did at the same time, his play feels very to the point.
Shinichi: I initially liked him for pretty strong town, then he went super contradictory, but it looks like that's par for the course for him. If Lngrrrr is scum them he's probably cleared because of that town tell business.
StinkyJoe: I reread his and my back and forth and his other posts around it and felt much less confident than I did in the moment. He's not lost my attention, but he's not someone I would lynch today.
Killjoy: I'm inclined to give town credit in general for massive wall posts, and in perusing previous town games of his I saw a pattern of larger response posts (none quite so large as his Osieorb case though). Without being able to compare to a scum game it's not worth as much, and the fact that he voted at the end despite coming away mixed is not doing him any favors.
Dawning: His posts are not cohesive, his soft claim and then follow up lacks consistency. Also that back and forth with Osieorb is indicative of them being buddies. It just reeks of them knowing each other's alignment.
So who else wants to make a list and place me at the lower end of the spectrum, cant speak much for phraze aka bluedawn, but why do all these lists feel like they are just back packing of each other? The only inconsistency between most of these read lists so far is that osi goes from being scum in some and town lean in others.
Grapefruit: Hes very open about his thoughts, and very aggressive as town and scum.
Axelrod: so is this common in MTGS, that you just lean people based on if they agree with your opinion or not?
Shinichi: Always like that, nothing new... He will stay neutral for me, I cant ever really place my brother anyways, so I tend to leave it to others
Joe: Voted me early on, the intial vote was wierd, didnt want to vote, but was ok once tom voted me? but overall I think our fights through out day 1 make me believe he is town, and he actually does hold decent conversations with me...
KillJoy and Azreal: Are two people im willing to lynch this day, also wall posts can come from scum, so your point is invalid. But you also realized that also since you have no scum game to compare it to... so kudos to you
You: Still dont know where I want to place you yet.
Dawn: *She, idk what to say about her yet... also how does Orb vs. Dawn reek of her knowing his alignment?
Also what is the chance that an evil role is in the hands of one of the current afks? its possible but without content I cant really place either of them. You guys really like making lean list, dont cha?
I don't have an unlimited amount of time to post. I believe you also missed a vote on Whisper, and I noted KJ's weird "vote orb even though he isnt that scummy" before Iso, but whatever. Anyways though, I like Az, DV, Shin and Terry for town. Tom, Osi and you are leantown. Leanscum on KJ. Scum read on LastWhisper and DawnSky. The rest I am undecided/neutral on. I don't think I said that KJ and GF's reads were opposite mine, but their thoughts regarding mechanics.
I didn't miss your vote on Whisper. I discounted it, because, aside from voting him, you said precisely jack-squat about him.
Saying "I think X is scum" while providing zero reasoning or basis is barely saying anything at all. It's not like you pushed it, or even asked him any questions in an effort to suss out his alignment.
Like, this post is something. Better than nothing. But still not much.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Last whisper: Maybe stop posting like scum and people won't scum read you. Skimming through your iso yields a lot of reasons to think you're scum. I concede that the lack real town reads on you might be something, but you could just be getting thrown under the bus by your buddies.
Why do you think you should be getting town read? What's the towniest thing you've done?
Alternatively, make a case on someone and find a scum.
Also what is the chance that an evil role is in the hands of one of the current afks? its possible but without content I cant really place either of them. You guys really like making lean list, dont cha?
What is the point of this? Sure, you could be 100% right; but without content it's an irrelevant discussion.
Heck, if you're scum, I could totally see being irritated at an afk buddy and lashing out like this.
@osi: No, your posts are legible, now - I just haven't really been paying much attention to them.
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@Killjoy: Doing busywork for the sake of looking like you're doing something isn't something that just Manders does. It's just the term we chose for it on this site. But way to strawman my argument!
I was asking why you weren't able to read Shin based on the amount of information present in the thread at the time; I thought he was quite town when you were calling for pressure on him to read him.
I didn't say you said tom thinks DV is scum. I said tom thinks DV is scum and I want you to give me your best guess as to why.
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@Az: As mentioned in most of my recently passed games, as well as this one, I simply do not have the time, patience, or energy to dedicate my existence to Mafia as I used to. Yes, I'm posting less. I post when I can between calls at work. That's the most I have time for.
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@LW: I mean, I think you're scum, but you're not questioning me about it. What gives?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Az You didn't answer my question. Your desription of me reads like you're townreading me, but you put me as scum.
I wanna know your thinking here. It makes no sense.
@Azrael I'm surprised you would say you would consider letting a mostly neutral read betray you (if you had BP to spare) Can you explain that further. Still not seeing that progression.
@KJ I don't agree at all that Osie is scum just that you had some good points. I think Osie is town. That is why I made that connection.
Ok.
But you specificially noted my post, which was intended to prove Osie scum. Why is Dawn scum because of my post on Osie, even if you disagree with it?
@Killjoy: I just noticed your Title. You trying to say something with that. Hmmmm?
Only that I'm a better mafia player than you. *smug face*
No, it's more of a play on that fact that I'm wrong more often than not. Changed it during... Low Fantasy?
I don't have an unlimited amount of time to post. I believe you also missed a vote on Whisper, and I noted KJ's weird "vote orb even though he isnt that scummy" before Iso, but whatever. Anyways though, I like Az, DV, Shin and Terry for town. Tom, Osi and you are leantown. Leanscum on KJ. Scum read on LastWhisper and DawnSky. The rest I am undecided/neutral on. I don't think I said that KJ and GF's reads were opposite mine, but their thoughts regarding mechanics.
I take it you disagree with my Osie wall then. Let's talk about that.
I've made bullet points as to why Osie is scum. Tell me why you think they're wrong.
@Killjoy: Doing busywork for the sake of looking like you're doing something isn't something that just Manders does. It's just the term we chose for it on this site. But way to strawman my argument!
I was asking why you weren't able to read Shin based on the amount of information present in the thread at the time; I thought he was quite town when you were calling for pressure on him to read him.
I didn't say you said tom thinks DV is scum. I said tom thinks DV is scum and I want you to give me your best guess as to why.
\
No one calls it that. This is the first time I've heard the term.
Also, busywork is by far the laziest thing to accuse people of. Like, if you're accusing me of that, you're not reading my posts.
What did you think of my Osie post. Which points did you disagree with?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Last whisper: Maybe stop posting like scum and people won't scum read you. Skimming through your iso yields a lot of reasons to think you're scum. I concede that the lack real town reads on you might be something, but you could just be getting thrown under the bus by your buddies.
Why do you think you should be getting town read? What's the towniest thing you've done?
Alternatively, make a case on someone and find a scum.
I got to say, I have to agree with this.
@Whisper: Who keeps asking you for your role information? I've seen you talk about not wanting to claim, but no one really is asking you to, unless I've missed it.
I don't know, I'm really starting to question AZ's alignment. He started off strong and then felt super pockety towards and now his posts are half-arsed. His "Oh I'm scum" game he's playing is never good, barring one circumstance, but frankly it rubs me the wrong way. His read list is some garbled combination from his notes and current reads that aren't really jiving together.
AZ, if you're town please clean it up and stop with this stupid, "I'm scum" angle. If you're scum, I have your scent.
@Last whisper: Maybe stop posting like scum and people won't scum read you. Skimming through your iso yields a lot of reasons to think you're scum. I concede that the lack real town reads on you might be something, but you could just be getting thrown under the bus by your buddies.
Why do you think you should be getting town read? What's the towniest thing you've done?
Alternatively, make a case on someone and find a scum.
I got to say, I have to agree with this.
@Whisper: Who keeps asking you for your role information? I've seen you talk about not wanting to claim, but no one really is asking you to, unless I've missed it.
i forgot who it was? maybe iso or grr? one of them said I should claim at this point so that they dont have to focus on me anymore...
@Last whisper: Maybe stop posting like scum and people won't scum read you. Skimming through your iso yields a lot of reasons to think you're scum. I concede that the lack real town reads on you might be something, but you could just be getting thrown under the bus by your buddies.
Why do you think you should be getting town read? What's the towniest thing you've done?
Alternatively, make a case on someone and find a scum.
I got to say, I have to agree with this.
@Whisper: Who keeps asking you for your role information? I've seen you talk about not wanting to claim, but no one really is asking you to, unless I've missed it.
i forgot who it was? maybe iso or grr? one of them said I should claim at this point so that they dont have to focus on me anymore...
[quote from="dawningbluesky »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/784906-zero-escape-mafia-day-1-welcome-to-my-kingdom?comment=685"]a bit of a silly question but anything to get a feel of ur alignment:
what do u think about the Last vs Terry trains? the main players to detract from Last was me and...who else...Osie? why would I be a townlean for u if I derailed the Last train, if Last is ur scumread?
Townies derail scum wagons all the time. What I care about is how you looked, while doing it. Plus, my reads are subject to change pretty regularly, so I don't try to force myself into an all-consistent scum-list world view. Its too likely to twist my arm into manufactured inaccuracy. If I can aim for a 50% hit rate on scum with my first list, that's plenty good.
sounds fair.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Phoenix: I don't remember what it was, now, but there was something you said or did not say that made me think you weren't paying attention to my posts. But you should re-read my posts anyway because I'm Iso and my posts are always important.
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@Killjoy: You literally admitted that your post on osi is busywork because you hadn't done anything up to that point and that you don't believe it after making it and that you're only voting him because you put the effort into the case. I stopped reading your osi post about halfway through and am not interested in engaging your case on him because I think he's town.
I'm not sure I understand your statement about tom and post #65.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
a bit of a silly question but anything to get a feel of ur alignment:
what do u think about the Last vs Terry trains? the main players to detract from Last was me and...who else...Osie? why would I be a townlean for u if I derailed the Last train, if Last is ur scumread?
Townies derail scum wagons all the time. What I care about is how you looked, while doing it. Plus, my reads are subject to change pretty regularly, so I don't try to force myself into an all-consistent scum-list world view. Its too likely to twist my arm into manufactured inaccuracy. If I can aim for a 50% hit rate on scum with my first list, that's plenty good.
sounds fair.
fixed ruined quote
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Last whisper: Maybe stop posting like scum and people won't scum read you. Skimming through your iso yields a lot of reasons to think you're scum. I concede that the lack real town reads on you might be something, but you could just be getting thrown under the bus by your buddies.
Why do you think you should be getting town read? What's the towniest thing you've done?
Alternatively, make a case on someone and find a scum.
I got to say, I have to agree with this.
@Whisper: Who keeps asking you for your role information? I've seen you talk about not wanting to claim, but no one really is asking you to, unless I've missed it.
i forgot who it was? maybe iso or grr? one of them said I should claim at this point so that they dont have to focus on me anymore...
I am fine with voting DBS. I think post 520 is just horrible, threatening those who vote him, trying to claim a power role but also trying to make someone look scummy by asking for it.
Well sure, I will take that bluff. Claim DBS, so as you said, we can "get on with something more productive".
possible scumbuds with Last would be in.. idk, Shinichi/Osie/Killjoy. says he's not sure about Shinichi, Osie backed off after a bit of whiteknighting, probably had scum theatre with Killjoy.
Bah.
You're fake news.
FakingNewsSky. DawningFakeNews.
You're probably not even a good day 1 lynch... That said, whether or not you are scum, your approach to this game is anti-town.
I was uncertain before, but hey, at least now I have a scumread.
Vote Dawningbluesky
LngrrR's vote uses language that's more aware of it's place on the wagon. He says "I'm fine with voting Dawn" which indirectly alludes to the wagon surrounding his vote. He also indicates specific reasoning for the vote. As a whole, it creates accountability to the vote. (NTS: I'm wondering if this indicates a town!LngrrR)
Osie acts like he doesn't notice the rest of the thread voting Dawn, doesn't give specific reasons why he's voting, and, for some reason, tacks onto the end a way to wave accountability if Dawn is town (which I'm guessing he is), which is something town does not do. He even nails-in-the-coffin with a final "I was uncertain before but not I have a scumread". It just doesn't feel natural.
what if osi didnt notice the rest of the thread voting dawn? and scum lngrrr is trying to find a good place to enter a wagon?
Dawning: His posts are not cohesive, his soft claim and then follow up lacks consistency. Also that back and forth with Osieorb is indicative of them being buddies. It just reeks of them knowing each other's alignment.
tell me in what way I lacked consistency? I've been inconsistent throughout the game and the recent development isn't any different. might as well just say I'm an inconsistent player and u found smthing to pin me with now. admit it. demanding me to fullclaim, outside of a softclaim, is scummy.
if Osie and I knew each other's alignment, would it mean we're both scum or town, or just 1 of us is scum? don't forget our first interaction was me asking how Osie plays - that is easily done in the scumchat so as to avoid this suspicion we're facing now - especially when I'm new to this site. prove to me what ur saying is correct. explain. elaborate. or lay off.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@Killjoy: You literally admitted that your post on osi is busywork because you hadn't done anything up to that point and that you don't believe it after making it and that you're only voting him because you put the effort into the case. I stopped reading your osi post about halfway through and am not interested in engaging your case on him because I think he's town.
I'm not sure I understand your statement about tom and post #65.
Use your brain. Why would I willingly admit that I didn't believe my own case?
LnGrrR asked my why I was voting Osie over my other suspects, and if the fact that I'd just made a case on him had and anything to do with my weighting him higher than my other suspects.
And I don't care if you think he's town. You're making that conclusion without taking my points into account, or even deciding if they're valid.
You're also ignoring valuable insight into my mindset by ignoring my thought processes in that post. In favor of... a lazy, half-cocked argument that involves absurdly shallow points and no actual analysis.
Play the game with the rest of us pleebs who take the time to think about the game or GTFO.
re tom/dv: The post he quoted when he first voted DV had a couple things: DV calling Az 10/10 town (possibly sarcastically), and his saying one of [Terry, Whisper, tom] is scum. In that, he is linking three people and saying only one is scum (I'm not sure I agree with the linking being the problem, if that's the case, since Terry voting Whisper when he thinks Tom is bussing is weird, because that means he also thinks tom is scum), and he's saying he will betray his partner tonight.
So, either DV being sarcastic is a meta scumtell, the linking is actually scummy, or flatly wanting to betray anyone is scummy (which I suppose it could be).
what if osi didnt notice the rest of the thread voting dawn? and scum lngrrr is trying to find a good place to enter a wagon?
Why wouldn't osie make mention to that in a subsequent post though?
And LngrrR is possible. But I still think scum!Osie makes more sense than scum!LnGrrR based on those votes.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ok, I'm ready for a read list. Here we go (notes on the first 5 pages):
Trapped in the warehoure (17/17) (/in) DV - S (Bad wagon vote on me. Says I'm bussing Tom and that I'm always a busser.) T (Outright claims he will betray, I doubt scum does this. Says "If Terry flips scum, he bets that Az does too" which is basically a townslip to me) Shinichi - T (Entrance was good, thoughtful post. ) S (Throws some shade on the early wagons, particularly on me looks like he's looking for an excuse to vote me, but not truly believing it himself #244 BluesEscape - S (Lurktastic) tomsloger - T (His vote on DV seems logical and in line with what I would expect Town Tom to do. His push on me was town like too, wrong, but town like.) S (Seems overly Confident. Little explanation to his votes) Jenna Tolaria lastwhisper - SSS (Over Defensive. Poor reasoning on reads/votes. Az seems to RVS LW, but LW says "He knows why Az voted him, but not me. OMGUS. Defends Tom for no reason. Backs off me for no reason and still can't explain what made me all of a sudden town to him. Threatens me for being confident "It will be the end of you". Megiddo dawningbluesky - S ("Take it easy on me I'm a newb". Looks like he sticks his neck out a bit to defend LW. His push on Tom over the LW wagon feels forced. Defends LW again by saying he's always scummy. Kind of Tunnels on Tom. Actually says he thinks Tom is Town and consider his vote on him RVS, but doesn't unvote #246) Iso - S (I didn't like his "If LW is town, then Terry is scum" that's the kind of thing that scum do to Lynch two townies in a row, knowing the first one will flip town in advance) T (I liked his line of questioning towards blue sky implying that he was detracting from the LW wagon, seems town) TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - T (The most townie of townies) Grapefruit21 - T (Seems to be carefully reading and not pushing things for no reason. Azrael - T (Seems logical and confident) S (Tries to pocket me early) Killjoy - T (Seems interested in inserting his own opinions instead of just following) LnGrrrR - S (Saying Townies should ever "off themselves" is automatic scum point. Bandwagon on LW. osieorb18 - S (Post #158 was a horrible waste of time probably trying to look busy. His three strikes gimmick is scummy because is trying to take out the solving and making it mechanical so he doesn't actually have to solve. Spent most of the game so far until recently posting gibberish. His push back to DV town reading me felt scummy. Random wagon vote on LNG, which he says is based on his tone) Phoenix-Fire - T (Votes and read feel organic and solvey. I liked his attack on me, it looks town.) Axelrod - T (Logic seems natural and sound.) S (A bit mechanic focused)
*T followed by a comment means something they did that I feel was town
*S followed by a comment means something they did that I feel was scummy
**This is just based off the first 5 pages, but I ran out of time. To be continued.
Ok, I'm ready for a read list. Here we go (notes on the first 5 pages):
Trapped in the warehoure (17/17) (/in) DV - S (Bad wagon vote on me. Says I'm bussing Tom and that I'm always a busser.) T (Outright claims he will betray, I doubt scum does this. Says "If Terry flips scum, he bets that Az does too" which is basically a townslip to me) Shinichi - T (Entrance was good, thoughtful post. ) S (Throws some shade on the early wagons, particularly on me looks like he's looking for an excuse to vote me, but not truly believing it himself #244 BluesEscape - S (Lurktastic) tomsloger - T (His vote on DV seems logical and in line with what I would expect Town Tom to do. His push on me was town like too, wrong, but town like.) S (Seems overly Confident. Little explanation to his votes) Jenna Tolaria lastwhisper - SSS (Over Defensive. Poor reasoning on reads/votes. Az seems to RVS LW, but LW says "He knows why Az voted him, but not me. OMGUS. Defends Tom for no reason. Backs off me for no reason and still can't explain what made me all of a sudden town to him. Threatens me for being confident "It will be the end of you". Megiddo dawningbluesky - S ("Take it easy on me I'm a newb". Looks like he sticks his neck out a bit to defend LW. His push on Tom over the LW wagon feels forced. Defends LW again by saying he's always scummy. Kind of Tunnels on Tom. Actually says he thinks Tom is Town and consider his vote on him RVS, but doesn't unvote #246) Iso - S (I didn't like his "If LW is town, then Terry is scum" that's the kind of thing that scum do to Lynch two townies in a row, knowing the first one will flip town in advance) T (I liked his line of questioning towards blue sky implying that he was detracting from the LW wagon, seems town) TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - T (The most townie of townies) Grapefruit21 - T (Seems to be carefully reading and not pushing things for no reason. Azrael - T (Seems logical and confident) S (Tries to pocket me early) Killjoy - T (Seems interested in inserting his own opinions instead of just following) LnGrrrR - S (Saying Townies should ever "off themselves" is automatic scum point. Bandwagon on LW. osieorb18 - S (Post #158 was a horrible waste of time probably trying to look busy. His three strikes gimmick is scummy because is trying to take out the solving and making it mechanical so he doesn't actually have to solve. Spent most of the game so far until recently posting gibberish. His push back to DV town reading me felt scummy. Random wagon vote on LNG, which he says is based on his tone) Phoenix-Fire - T (Votes and read feel organic and solvey. I liked his attack on me, it looks town.) Axelrod - T (Logic seems natural and sound.) S (A bit mechanic focused)
*T followed by a comment means something they did that I feel was town
*S followed by a comment means something they did that I feel was scummy
**This is just based off the first 5 pages, but I ran out of time. To be continued.
Lol what are you on about? all of a sudden ur back to me being super scummy? Where do you see poor reason on reads votes? and when I stated that, "I understand why Azreal voted me, because in all honesty he had a reason... and if I was ok with his reasoning and not yours, then of course your gunna see it as omgus...
Secondly I can defend whoever I want... I said the reason I backed off you was because I felt like our fights where V/V, are you daft? and where is this threat? I was referring to ur bad tunnel on me, idk what you got from statement. Actually you and Iso are just kinda pissing me off now, but I like that we can agree that Iso is scummy :).
I don't know, I'm really starting to question AZ's alignment. He started off strong and then felt super pockety towards and now his posts are half-arsed. His "Oh I'm scum" game he's playing is never good, barring one circumstance, but frankly it rubs me the wrong way. His read list is some garbled combination from his notes and current reads that aren't really jiving together.
AZ, if you're town please clean it up and stop with this stupid, "I'm scum" angle. If you're scum, I have your scent.
Joe, you're not the game I was aiming to trap. *sigh* But I doubt anyone else is going to nibble, aside from LW, at any rate.
Think of me as Doc Brown from Back to the Future. Scatter-brained, peculiar, and not quite with it, has to duck and cover from Libyan terrorists after selling them parts from a pinball machine, but occasionally bumps his head on the toilet and comes up with a flux capacitor. In my current state, you're not going to get much better than my stream of consciousness, unfiltered "half-arsed" seeming efforts at explanation, but explaining my reads isn't really the phase of the game that I'm in, or concentrating on. The players more familiar with my meta are flat-out ignoring me, because they've seen these tricks a thousand times before, but since we have a passle of new-to-me faces around, I don't mind seeing if I can't lure some terrorists into coming into the open after me.
Now, who's ready to lynch Biff? (aka any one of Lngrr, LW, or Grape) I haven't the slightest idea where we are vote-wise on those three, IIRC the last VC had us derping around on 4 votes on some probable townie like Dawn?
I also find it rather strange that you admit that I had some kind of understandable reason for voting you, but took the first open shot you had to OMGUS back. *crosses arms, wipes coffee off his computer screen*
You never did justify the "wishy washy" allegation, either. I think I've been quite unwavering about wanting your head on a spike, for example.
I wish I had two votes because DawningBlue and LnGrrrR are both close to locked in scum reads at this point.
@Azrael I will have to check time stamps but those posts were within 8 posts of each other and you don't really outline a compelling scum case for Iso. Still not buying that flip flop.
@thread in general LastWhisper is one of the naturally scummiest townies I've ever played with. His scum game is pretty scummy too. Really he just plays a scummy game. His defense on DBS feels more like defending a familiar face than a scum buddy. Wisp and I played a shadow game on MU as town that I think highlights his slightly scummy town playstyle pretty well. link for those interested. If he continues to not do anything townie I'm not going to defend him, just think we can do better D1 because his play is always like this.
@LW scum/town lists are one of the best tools to play the game with. It gives you insight to how others are thinking and helps hold people accountable.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I wish I had two votes because DawningBlue and LnGrrrR are both close to locked in scum reads at this point.
@Azrael I will have to check time stamps but those posts were within 8 posts of each other and you don't really outline a compelling scum case for Iso. Still not buying that flip flop.
@thread in general LastWhisper is one of the naturally scummiest townies I've ever played with. His scum game is pretty scummy too. Really he just plays a scummy game. His defense on DBS feels more like defending a familiar face than a scum buddy. Wisp and I played a shadow game on MU as town that I think highlights his slightly scummy town playstyle pretty well. link for those interested. If he continues to not do anything townie I'm not going to defend him, just think we can do better D1 because his play is always like this.
@LW scum/town lists are one of the best tools to play the game with. It gives you insight to how others are thinking and helps hold people accountable.
I get the stuff you are saying about dbs and lw, but just from rereading pg 1-5 there is the issue that it seems like dbs was also trying to redirect the lw wagon onto tom. I just can't really see taking them to end game ever. Will they help us catch scum if they are town?
Dawning: His posts are not cohesive, his soft claim and then follow up lacks consistency. Also that back and forth with Osieorb is indicative of them being buddies. It just reeks of them knowing each other's alignment.
*snip*
if Osie and I knew each other's alignment, would it mean we're both scum or town, or just 1 of us is scum? don't forget our first interaction was me asking how Osie plays - that is easily done in the scumchat so as to avoid this suspicion we're facing now - especially when I'm new to this site. prove to me what ur saying is correct. explain. elaborate. or lay off.
While i think you're scum I definitely don't think you're scum with Osie. That said by definition to know each others you'd both have to be scum. Or else only one would know.
@KJ I linked that post and said it was relevant in light of your post because it was DBS drawing lines between you and Osie. If DBS flips scum I want everyone to see and remember that post.
@Tom if you were god emperor (day vig) who would you kill right now?
I guess this will be my first iso of the game, since you know I actually want to survive today w/o the need to state my role.
Starts off claiming 2 scum… I guess maybe that did irk me a little not gunna lie…
In other news, I'd like to propose that no one is allowed to betray except by advance agreement/clearance by the town. Partly because if anyone betrays me, I'm probably insta-dead. Which seems like a thing where if someone would try to do that to me, they shouldn't have an excuse, and I'm likely not the only one. Thoughts?
Also, be sure to volunteer enough role info while discussing the above that the scum can figure out sensitive role info and identify vulnerable targets and town power roles, kthxbye.
Tbh Im not really sure what to think of his first relevant? Post…
1. How insta dead are you? If it’s a maybe, then will you not die if betrayed?
2. if you were really afraid of dying from betray, then why not betray urself?
3. Ive already told you I’m betraying so… and also maybe there’s something you’re not telling us? Not that I want to know anymore, but this just feels off.
4. Terrible sarcasm
You know why I'm voting you?? Why? *cocks eyebrow*
[iBecause you probably noticed how scummy my last statement sounded and it gave the impression that I would betray, which you are right, I will betray and I have my reasons. Joe made a joke, didn’t vote me, then Tom voted me, and then I guess he felt stronger, maybe not wanted to be the first vote of the train? Either way I didn’t like his vote, but I mean I was already breaking ur rules so I know why u voted me, very simplistic, unless ur gunna tell me that your vote was also a joke, then I’ll promptly go hang myself because of these bad jokes. [i]
@JoeTerry also,
You're OMGUS definitely makes me feel better about my vote on you, but let me explain this to everyone who is voting me.
In #51, Last Whisper's Response to Azrael's pressure/vote (which clearly LW couldn't tell if Azrael was serious or not):It starts off over defensive, and arrogant, but even within the same posts it's like LW realizes it and then tries to right the ship by adding in a sarcastic throw in the towel comment in the end. This one post just ran the whole gambit of scum emotions. It's a dead serious vote.
Lol honestly this analysis was spot on, but not for the reasons you think :). Send me a link to these gambits of scum emotions thanks? I need to watch my tone for next time, since these are 100% scum tells in your book.
Then there was those string of posts where Azreal just agreed with everything Joe said, it was kindve an ackward attempt to pocket him, even if he says/or had said it wasn’t.
This iso was on Azreal but what is this from D.V:
Well that's super problematic.
I'll assume the mod put in things that punish betrayals as well though so for scum going Betray every time won't work the best.
??? LOL THAT’S THE PRISONERS DILEMMA RIGHT THERE DUDE, THERE IS NO REASON TO NOT BETRAY, at least not yet imo…
So killjoy wasn’t scum, then he was scum? And then ur first post was apparently a cheap trick based on meta? So you can fill someone’s whole meta into just a few posts? Then this “Psst, that's my excuse for failing to locate scum this game, because I'm actually scum, but still have to uphold my rep as town. Just fyi.).”
You are all over the place… and very sarcastic, so yes wish washy as I said.
“Anyway, do you trust me? And if so, can I betray you tonight? It's important that we get my ability active ASAP.” @Iso why would you say that? You trying to bait mafia, or are you mafia… scum senses tingling
So tbh a part from his read list, on a scale of 1 – 10 hes presence in this game is some where between sarcastic jester and semi-decent comedian. So 3/10.
But you know I still don’t want to vote you yet, over Grr or Iso, or even kill joy. In all honesty Ive been so focused on Calc homework that I don’t even recall where my vote was… so vote: Iso and Ill find stuff on him/her later…
Except - and I think you know this - the issue is that this is essentially all you are doing. You have barely commented about other people in this game. You're not giving opinions on them, or even giving the appearance that you're trying to find out their alignments.
Looking back through your stuff, the sum total of opinions of other players I see essentially amounts to:
(1) Voting for DBS, in what looks a lot like a bandwagon vote.
(2) Shin may have "townslipped"
(3) Don't like Killjoy b/c his reads are opposite to yours (which you haven't expressed). Then say GF's reads are opposite as well, but this may be just a difference of opinion.
(4) very early you said you "liked" Terry so far.
And, like, that's about it. The majority of your stuff is arguing/defending the idea that anyone who Betrays should be viewed with suspicion. There is also very little of what I would consider scum-hunting.
So, what are those opinions that you supposedly have?
Felt the same way reading that. And I really didn't much care for the "Iso was more neutral, but I didn't have enough scum in my scumlists so I bumped him down..." explanation.
@KJ I don't agree at all that Osie is scum just that you had some good points. I think Osie is town. That is why I made that connection.
Much of the time, my game is based upon identifying townies by virtue of mindset, tone, and emotional tells that are very, very difficult for scum to fake. Once I have weeded out the players who I can't clear, usually about a third of the thread, I look in that pile for anyone with particularly artificial styles, inappropriate focus, and all your other classic scum tells.
You didn't make the cut in round one, and you were on the bottom of the barrel for round two. Nothing you posted looked to be coming from a game solving mentality, you looked to be simply going through the motions.
You are comparing pre and post iso reads. He descended lower during my read through, from generally benign and baseline town (75% likely town), to one of the handful that I couldn't read or clear out. I would not be psyched about giving him points right this moment.
I don't have an unlimited amount of time to post. I believe you also missed a vote on Whisper, and I noted KJ's weird "vote orb even though he isnt that scummy" before Iso, but whatever. Anyways though, I like Az, DV, Shin and Terry for town. Tom, Osi and you are leantown. Leanscum on KJ. Scum read on LastWhisper and DawnSky. The rest I am undecided/neutral on. I don't think I said that KJ and GF's reads were opposite mine, but their thoughts regarding mechanics.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
1. why do you still believe I am scum?
2. are you scum reading dawn of her own accord, or for her white knight on me?
3. How do you see Az's wish washing behavior as town?
4. Do u just agree with everyone that doesnt like me? lol
Thats all for now...
P.S: Autocorrect changed wolfers to woofers lmao
Grapefruit
Axelrod
Shinichi
Jenna Tolaria
Tomsloger
Azreal
DV
Killjoy
Iso
Terry
Lngrrrr
Osieorb
Last whisper
Dawning
Scum
No content
BluesEscape
Megiddo
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
A few notes:
Grapefruit: He just seems so open with his thoughts and no nonsense in his reads. I like his back and forth with Dawning.
Axelrod: He had some of the same thoughts as I did at the same time, his play feels very to the point.
Shinichi: I initially liked him for pretty strong town, then he went super contradictory, but it looks like that's par for the course for him. If Lngrrrr is scum them he's probably cleared because of that town tell business.
StinkyJoe: I reread his and my back and forth and his other posts around it and felt much less confident than I did in the moment. He's not lost my attention, but he's not someone I would lynch today.
Killjoy: I'm inclined to give town credit in general for massive wall posts, and in perusing previous town games of his I saw a pattern of larger response posts (none quite so large as his Osieorb case though). Without being able to compare to a scum game it's not worth as much, and the fact that he voted at the end despite coming away mixed is not doing him any favors.
Dawning: His posts are not cohesive, his soft claim and then follow up lacks consistency. Also that back and forth with Osieorb is indicative of them being buddies. It just reeks of them knowing each other's alignment.
Grapefruit: Hes very open about his thoughts, and very aggressive as town and scum.
Axelrod: so is this common in MTGS, that you just lean people based on if they agree with your opinion or not?
Shinichi: Always like that, nothing new... He will stay neutral for me, I cant ever really place my brother anyways, so I tend to leave it to others
Joe: Voted me early on, the intial vote was wierd, didnt want to vote, but was ok once tom voted me? but overall I think our fights through out day 1 make me believe he is town, and he actually does hold decent conversations with me...
KillJoy and Azreal: Are two people im willing to lynch this day, also wall posts can come from scum, so your point is invalid. But you also realized that also since you have no scum game to compare it to... so kudos to you
You: Still dont know where I want to place you yet.
Dawn: *She, idk what to say about her yet... also how does Orb vs. Dawn reek of her knowing his alignment?
I didn't miss your vote on Whisper. I discounted it, because, aside from voting him, you said precisely jack-squat about him.
Saying "I think X is scum" while providing zero reasoning or basis is barely saying anything at all. It's not like you pushed it, or even asked him any questions in an effort to suss out his alignment.
Like, this post is something. Better than nothing. But still not much.
Why do you think you should be getting town read? What's the towniest thing you've done?
Alternatively, make a case on someone and find a scum.
Heck, if you're scum, I could totally see being irritated at an afk buddy and lashing out like this.
*spews coffee all over his computer screen*
Wish washing? Pardon?
-
@Killjoy: Doing busywork for the sake of looking like you're doing something isn't something that just Manders does. It's just the term we chose for it on this site. But way to strawman my argument!
I was asking why you weren't able to read Shin based on the amount of information present in the thread at the time; I thought he was quite town when you were calling for pressure on him to read him.
I didn't say you said tom thinks DV is scum. I said tom thinks DV is scum and I want you to give me your best guess as to why.
-
@Az: As mentioned in most of my recently passed games, as well as this one, I simply do not have the time, patience, or energy to dedicate my existence to Mafia as I used to. Yes, I'm posting less. I post when I can between calls at work. That's the most I have time for.
-
@LW: I mean, I think you're scum, but you're not questioning me about it. What gives?
-
@Phoenix: Why are you ignoring my posts?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I feel safe in saying I don't think anything he has said is based in reality.
I wanna know your thinking here. It makes no sense.
Ok.
But you specificially noted my post, which was intended to prove Osie scum. Why is Dawn scum because of my post on Osie, even if you disagree with it?
Only that I'm a better mafia player than you. *smug face*
No, it's more of a play on that fact that I'm wrong more often than not. Changed it during... Low Fantasy?
I take it you disagree with my Osie wall then. Let's talk about that.
I've made bullet points as to why Osie is scum. Tell me why you think they're wrong.
No one calls it that. This is the first time I've heard the term.
Also, busywork is by far the laziest thing to accuse people of. Like, if you're accusing me of that, you're not reading my posts.
What did you think of my Osie post. Which points did you disagree with?
@Whisper: Who keeps asking you for your role information? I've seen you talk about not wanting to claim, but no one really is asking you to, unless I've missed it.
AZ, if you're town please clean it up and stop with this stupid, "I'm scum" angle. If you're scum, I have your scent.
sounds fair.
Be grateful, always."
-
@Killjoy: You literally admitted that your post on osi is busywork because you hadn't done anything up to that point and that you don't believe it after making it and that you're only voting him because you put the effort into the case. I stopped reading your osi post about halfway through and am not interested in engaging your case on him because I think he's town.
I'm not sure I understand your statement about tom and post #65.
-
@dawn: I made a request of you, please acquiesce.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
fixed ruined quote
Be grateful, always."
vvvvvvvv
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
if Osie and I knew each other's alignment, would it mean we're both scum or town, or just 1 of us is scum? don't forget our first interaction was me asking how Osie plays - that is easily done in the scumchat so as to avoid this suspicion we're facing now - especially when I'm new to this site. prove to me what ur saying is correct. explain. elaborate. or lay off.
Be grateful, always."
Why no lynch KJ.
Please come back bby.
Use your brain. Why would I willingly admit that I didn't believe my own case?
LnGrrR asked my why I was voting Osie over my other suspects, and if the fact that I'd just made a case on him had and anything to do with my weighting him higher than my other suspects.
And I don't care if you think he's town. You're making that conclusion without taking my points into account, or even deciding if they're valid.
You're also ignoring valuable insight into my mindset by ignoring my thought processes in that post. In favor of... a lazy, half-cocked argument that involves absurdly shallow points and no actual analysis.
Play the game with the rest of us pleebs who take the time to think about the game or GTFO.
re tom/dv: The post he quoted when he first voted DV had a couple things: DV calling Az 10/10 town (possibly sarcastically), and his saying one of [Terry, Whisper, tom] is scum. In that, he is linking three people and saying only one is scum (I'm not sure I agree with the linking being the problem, if that's the case, since Terry voting Whisper when he thinks Tom is bussing is weird, because that means he also thinks tom is scum), and he's saying he will betray his partner tonight.
So, either DV being sarcastic is a meta scumtell, the linking is actually scummy, or flatly wanting to betray anyone is scummy (which I suppose it could be).
Why wouldn't osie make mention to that in a subsequent post though?
And LngrrR is possible. But I still think scum!Osie makes more sense than scum!LnGrrR based on those votes.
i got lost in your iso
Trapped in the warehoure (17/17) (/in)
DV - S (Bad wagon vote on me. Says I'm bussing Tom and that I'm always a busser.) T (Outright claims he will betray, I doubt scum does this. Says "If Terry flips scum, he bets that Az does too" which is basically a townslip to me)
Shinichi - T (Entrance was good, thoughtful post. ) S (Throws some shade on the early wagons, particularly on me looks like he's looking for an excuse to vote me, but not truly believing it himself #244
BluesEscape - S (Lurktastic)
tomsloger - T (His vote on DV seems logical and in line with what I would expect Town Tom to do. His push on me was town like too, wrong, but town like.) S (Seems overly Confident. Little explanation to his votes)
Jenna Tolaria
lastwhisper - SSS (Over Defensive. Poor reasoning on reads/votes. Az seems to RVS LW, but LW says "He knows why Az voted him, but not me. OMGUS. Defends Tom for no reason. Backs off me for no reason and still can't explain what made me all of a sudden town to him. Threatens me for being confident "It will be the end of you".
Megiddo
dawningbluesky - S ("Take it easy on me I'm a newb". Looks like he sticks his neck out a bit to defend LW. His push on Tom over the LW wagon feels forced. Defends LW again by saying he's always scummy. Kind of Tunnels on Tom. Actually says he thinks Tom is Town and consider his vote on him RVS, but doesn't unvote #246)
Iso - S (I didn't like his "If LW is town, then Terry is scum" that's the kind of thing that scum do to Lynch two townies in a row, knowing the first one will flip town in advance) T (I liked his line of questioning towards blue sky implying that he was detracting from the LW wagon, seems town)
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - T (The most townie of townies)
Grapefruit21 - T (Seems to be carefully reading and not pushing things for no reason.
Azrael - T (Seems logical and confident) S (Tries to pocket me early)
Killjoy - T (Seems interested in inserting his own opinions instead of just following)
LnGrrrR - S (Saying Townies should ever "off themselves" is automatic scum point. Bandwagon on LW.
osieorb18 - S (Post #158 was a horrible waste of time probably trying to look busy. His three strikes gimmick is scummy because is trying to take out the solving and making it mechanical so he doesn't actually have to solve. Spent most of the game so far until recently posting gibberish. His push back to DV town reading me felt scummy. Random wagon vote on LNG, which he says is based on his tone)
Phoenix-Fire - T (Votes and read feel organic and solvey. I liked his attack on me, it looks town.)
Axelrod - T (Logic seems natural and sound.) S (A bit mechanic focused)
*T followed by a comment means something they did that I feel was town
*S followed by a comment means something they did that I feel was scummy
**This is just based off the first 5 pages, but I ran out of time. To be continued.
Secondly I can defend whoever I want... I said the reason I backed off you was because I felt like our fights where V/V, are you daft? and where is this threat? I was referring to ur bad tunnel on me, idk what you got from statement. Actually you and Iso are just kinda pissing me off now, but I like that we can agree that Iso is scummy :).
Overly defense != scum, just saying...
Joe, you're not the game I was aiming to trap. *sigh* But I doubt anyone else is going to nibble, aside from LW, at any rate.
Think of me as Doc Brown from Back to the Future. Scatter-brained, peculiar, and not quite with it, has to duck and cover from Libyan terrorists after selling them parts from a pinball machine, but occasionally bumps his head on the toilet and comes up with a flux capacitor. In my current state, you're not going to get much better than my stream of consciousness, unfiltered "half-arsed" seeming efforts at explanation, but explaining my reads isn't really the phase of the game that I'm in, or concentrating on. The players more familiar with my meta are flat-out ignoring me, because they've seen these tricks a thousand times before, but since we have a passle of new-to-me faces around, I don't mind seeing if I can't lure some terrorists into coming into the open after me.
Now, who's ready to lynch Biff? (aka any one of Lngrr, LW, or Grape) I haven't the slightest idea where we are vote-wise on those three, IIRC the last VC had us derping around on 4 votes on some probable townie like Dawn?
You never did justify the "wishy washy" allegation, either. I think I've been quite unwavering about wanting your head on a spike, for example.
@Azrael I will have to check time stamps but those posts were within 8 posts of each other and you don't really outline a compelling scum case for Iso. Still not buying that flip flop.
@thread in general LastWhisper is one of the naturally scummiest townies I've ever played with. His scum game is pretty scummy too. Really he just plays a scummy game. His defense on DBS feels more like defending a familiar face than a scum buddy. Wisp and I played a shadow game on MU as town that I think highlights his slightly scummy town playstyle pretty well. link for those interested. If he continues to not do anything townie I'm not going to defend him, just think we can do better D1 because his play is always like this.
@LW scum/town lists are one of the best tools to play the game with. It gives you insight to how others are thinking and helps hold people accountable.
While i think you're scum I definitely don't think you're scum with Osie. That said by definition to know each others you'd both have to be scum. Or else only one would know.
@KJ I linked that post and said it was relevant in light of your post because it was DBS drawing lines between you and Osie. If DBS flips scum I want everyone to see and remember that post.
@Tom if you were god emperor (day vig) who would you kill right now?
Current ally list is, like, axel/shinichi/phoenix/grape/joe/jenna.
Probably still osi/dawning/kj.
That leaves 7 I would betray.
Starts off claiming 2 scum… I guess maybe that did irk me a little not gunna lie…
Tbh Im not really sure what to think of his first relevant? Post…
1. How insta dead are you? If it’s a maybe, then will you not die if betrayed?
2. if you were really afraid of dying from betray, then why not betray urself?
3. Ive already told you I’m betraying so… and also maybe there’s something you’re not telling us? Not that I want to know anymore, but this just feels off.
4. Terrible sarcasm
[iBecause you probably noticed how scummy my last statement sounded and it gave the impression that I would betray, which you are right, I will betray and I have my reasons. Joe made a joke, didn’t vote me, then Tom voted me, and then I guess he felt stronger, maybe not wanted to be the first vote of the train? Either way I didn’t like his vote, but I mean I was already breaking ur rules so I know why u voted me, very simplistic, unless ur gunna tell me that your vote was also a joke, then I’ll promptly go hang myself because of these bad jokes. [i]
@JoeTerry also,
Lol honestly this analysis was spot on, but not for the reasons you think :). Send me a link to these gambits of scum emotions thanks? I need to watch my tone for next time, since these are 100% scum tells in your book.
Then there was those string of posts where Azreal just agreed with everything Joe said, it was kindve an ackward attempt to pocket him, even if he says/or had said it wasn’t.
This iso was on Azreal but what is this from D.V:
??? LOL THAT’S THE PRISONERS DILEMMA RIGHT THERE DUDE, THERE IS NO REASON TO NOT BETRAY, at least not yet imo…
So killjoy wasn’t scum, then he was scum? And then ur first post was apparently a cheap trick based on meta? So you can fill someone’s whole meta into just a few posts? Then this “Psst, that's my excuse for failing to locate scum this game, because I'm actually scum, but still have to uphold my rep as town. Just fyi.).”
You are all over the place… and very sarcastic, so yes wish washy as I said.
“Anyway, do you trust me? And if so, can I betray you tonight? It's important that we get my ability active ASAP.” @Iso why would you say that? You trying to bait mafia, or are you mafia… scum senses tingling
So tbh a part from his read list, on a scale of 1 – 10 hes presence in this game is some where between sarcastic jester and semi-decent comedian. So 3/10.
But you know I still don’t want to vote you yet, over Grr or Iso, or even kill joy. In all honesty Ive been so focused on Calc homework that I don’t even recall where my vote was… so vote: Iso and Ill find stuff on him/her later…