Ok good, you're here last whisper. Let's have a chat. Who's scum? DO you still think I'm scum?
I didnt think u were scum anymore after we had our little quarrel.
Im not a fan of lists, and I cant say much about kill joy since I havent looked a lot into him, but if there are 3 mafia, then 1 of them is probably between Grr/Iso and Idk how I feel about Phoenix or Azreal right now.
When did I stop being scum to you? Tell me why you think there are 3 scum?
17 players, so either 3 scum and no tpr, 3 scum and 1 tpr, or 4 scum. and I did say "if", so idk why u want a more detailed explanation. Idk much balance wise when it comes to scum/player ratio, so that is just my guess...
Ok good, you're here last whisper. Let's have a chat. Who's scum? DO you still think I'm scum?
I didnt think u were scum anymore after we had our little quarrel.
Im not a fan of lists, and I cant say much about kill joy since I havent looked a lot into him, but if there are 3 mafia, then 1 of them is probably between Grr/Iso and Idk how I feel about Phoenix or Azreal right now.
When did I stop being scum to you? Tell me why you think there are 3 scum?
17 players, so either 3 scum and no tpr, 3 scum and 1 tpr, or 4 scum. and I did say "if", so idk why u want a more detailed explanation. Idk much balance wise when it comes to scum/player ratio, so that is just my guess...
also I thought our bickering came more from V/V since I know I am town, and u pushing me didnt feel like scum pushing a town lynch
Ok good, you're here last whisper. Let's have a chat. Who's scum? DO you still think I'm scum?
I didnt think u were scum anymore after we had our little quarrel.
Im not a fan of lists, and I cant say much about kill joy since I havent looked a lot into him, but if there are 3 mafia, then 1 of them is probably between Grr/Iso and Idk how I feel about Phoenix or Azreal right now.
When did I stop being scum to you? Tell me why you think there are 3 scum?
17 players, so either 3 scum and no tpr, 3 scum and 1 tpr, or 4 scum. and I did say "if", so idk why u want a more detailed explanation. Idk much balance wise when it comes to scum/player ratio, so that is just my guess...
also I thought our bickering came more from V/V since I know I am town, and u pushing me didnt feel like scum pushing a town lynch
he's talking about his scumreads not in terms of how he actually feels, but their position on his scumlist. Like, it's trying to stay in line with what he has on his scumlist as opposed to who he actually thinks is scum at this time.
My readlist is a noting down of some of my feelings on people from a specific moment in time. My feelings on people are both more complex than that, and regularly change, sometimes radically. Keep in mind also that nobody has gotten into scumreads on a readslist this game for me so far, only leans. I've seen both town and scum bits from the majority of players. This was also part of why I waited a while to vote; I haven't found anyone that I'm 100% on.
Sure. But its the nuance of the thought process of "I've verbally said they're scum, so I should stick to that" as opposed to ACTUALLY believing they're scum and viewing the game from that context.
If your reads fluxuate, verbalize them more then. The point where your reads change are nonexistant in the thread.
possible scumbuds with Last would be in.. idk, Shinichi/Osie/Killjoy. says he's not sure about Shinichi, Osie backed off after a bit of whiteknighting, probably had scum theatre with Killjoy.
Bah.
You're fake news.
FakingNewsSky. DawningFakeNews.
You're probably not even a good day 1 lynch... That said, whether or not you are scum, your approach to this game is anti-town.
I was uncertain before, but hey, at least now I have a scumread.
Vote Dawningbluesky
The timing of this is... so bad. Like, you see the wagon building... don't acknowledge it, then hop on?
Also, now that he's getting a wagon, you're certain he's scum?
@Killjoy, you sure you arent just voting Osi because you did all the work to ISO him? You think others are scummier, right? If so why are you voting him? Why isolate Orb instead of any other player, like DBS or Whisper?
@Killjoy: Do you have recent scum and town games you can link me to?
Nothing recent as far as scum goes. My most recent scumgame will be in my sig.
For town, Jurrasic Park Adventure, Low Fantasy, Revolution. Probably all on the first page of the Mafia subforum. Too lazy to make links right now.
I'm thinking Iso. Iso and Azrael are 2 ppl I feel are under radar, if not everyone else's radar at least mine. given this momentum on my train, and based off Iso's distant push on me, I'd say Iso is a good lead. maybe Grapefruit, since he essentially budged into Iso's scumhunting process on me. either Iso is triggering things from afar, or Grapefruit is being opportunistic scum. also, Grapefruit asking others to jump onto my train while ignoring my answer to him just reeks.
my PoE for Today would be: Iso/Grapefruit/Killjoy
keeping an eye out for: LnG/DV/Azrael/Tom
- Iso for being magically sided when questioning me??
- Grapefruit for asking others to jump on me without proper questioning, or ignoring my explanations
- Killjoy for that BP talk, and I noticed he talked to DV that my associating both of them was bad. some kind of buddying up?
- dunno about LnG, but he's a townlean due to that early BP claim - which I don't think scum would dare to try early on
- not enough info from Azrael
- DV made that pseudo claim, but there's better options atm
- LnG also not enough info
- Tom has a playstyle I'll need to see more of, but he's more of a townlean
other inactives have less than enough info, so I'll keep an eye on them too. Megiddo and Jenna.
elaborate explanation since I'm trying to cut down the spamming~
You know... I wanna say dawn is town simply for how little thought is going into these arguements about me. First moving my rvs vote was bad, now talking to DV makes me scum?
Do scum really do this? Also he's voting Iso. Going against the grain agian.
If he is town, I'm curious who on the wagon is scum. At least one, I think.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@DawningBlueSky I didn't care at all about the answer to the question of who you thought were Wisp's buddies. I only cared about the process that led you to include yourself on a team when asked. It shows a lack of interest in game solving and team work which are two townie markers. Why the Iso vote? I know you explained it but I'm stupid and confused.
@Killjoy Do you see much of a difference between Osie and LnGrreR votes bopping on the DBS train?
@LastWhisper I was referring to your reaction to Shinichi's post where you said you'd be surprised if you flipped scum when I said he and I weren't pushing you as scum. It seemed like a reaction that didn't match the quoted text at all.
@Jenna what do you make of LnGrrrR? What about DawningBlue?
Re: You:
Can you quote the reason you gave?
And why does scum not read the game?
Well you claim to have read me, and think I'm scum. So nope. I don't think you've read a damn thing I've said at all this game. If you had you would no my reasons.
Scum skim look for things to comment on, have less reason to be invested in the game because they are not really scum hunting. Etc. Come on this is simple mafia. Really?
Re: Shin
I never said he was 'very town'. Where do you see me doing that?
And I was commenting that I hadn't seen any townslip from him. I specifically looked for one after Ln said it was there. Didn't see one.
Dude really. You mind melded with Tom. Tom had him as very town.
Re: Tom:
Are you referring to when tom thought he saw the slip as well? I saw that.
I still think pressure would tell us a lot about that slot, since I still haven't seen the slip. I'll check out his ISO again to see what I can see from him.
You "Mindmelded".
RE: whisper:
Bull*****. You don't think I do stream of thought posts? Really?
And did you just decide not to read that through on purpose?
Initial posts=hyperdefensive/sure he won't die. Later->Reading Terry/ whisper (specifically whispers reactions to him) make me feel town on whisper.
You literally didn't in the rest of this post. Just this one. It screams of waffle.
I did read through it. Did you? Because "Maybe he's just newer and falls into the trap of trying to defend themselves instead of scumhunting?"
Do you even know what you wrote? That's so waffle there.
Re: DBS:
defense posts (click to show)
It was two. But even so, that's a lot of defense for someone who's alignment he doesn't know. I'd think he'd be ok with the pressure on him to see how he reacts.
Oh come on. You really think I'm going to let you get away with "IT was two whole posts" How is that a "Vigorous defense?"
Re: Terry:
See lastwhisper post.His reactions to whisper's post/whispers responses to his seem town to me.
Except your statement was that LW was "Sort of town" and "Maybe a newbie". Now all of a sudden hes town v town with Terry. This just says "Hey guys I know that Terry is town and I need to clear him somehow"
re: Grapefruit:
Iso is more experienced and is generally less naturally emotional than Grape. Grape feels real.
Re: Az:
No, but I can make it shorter: Az good. No catch Az early.
This is my point with both of these. Its just comments for comments sake. Or as I like to dub it. "Active lurking" Content, with no meaning.
Re: Ln:
Makes a lot of mechanics posts =/= only makes mechanics posts.
You mind melded tom. He's town. You either walk back that bull***** buddy attempt now or I'm going to ram this down your throat for the rest of the game.
Re: Osie:
He's spent a lot of the game making fluff posts. I know you've seen them. Also you're asking me to prove a negative.
I haven't read the osie case yet. I'll do that soon. IE after this.
Re: Phoenix:
I think you not being able to read simple posts is more pathetic. Read my words: HE. SPENT. A. LOT. OF. TIME. PRESSING. TERRY. FOR. ONE. ANSWER.
That does not mean that's all he's done. That's just all that made a really big impression.
I did read what you said. I don't understand how you can't recall what else hes done. And even in pressuring he was tonally town. Or can you not read what I said?
Re: Axel:
Yup. Axel read really town.So I literally called him scum at one point, then decided to table it and leave him at null. You're the best at mafia.
No. I will explain this again. Axel's posting style seems oddly proper. Which can be a scum thing. HOWEVER, I also vaguely remember that just being how he talks, so its NAI. And nothing else stood out. So he's Null.
I thought Axel read as town. And I put meh going not much disagreement.
-DV: "Are you sure you need those three points that fast and can't just get it out of allying three times?"
-DV: (assuming the mod will punish betrayals to nerf scum) "Stop it"
-DV: "What do you think of Tom this game outside of his interactions with Terry?"
I'm not anymore. If you had been reading me you would have known that. But you're really sure I'm scum right?
Naw.
I think Tom is Tom. Pretty sure he's town for a specific reason this game. I'm watching it.
Alright now for KJ's case on Osie.
Most of what he has in red that he says is bad. He says is Null or meh a lot of times at the beginning of his sentences. Then he says the Macro is that osie is scum. Which can't be possibly true since the Osie case actually nets Osie as net positive on town points when you ignore the crappy color coding system and actually read the arguments being made.
Its like it was a manufactured case just like the case on me is going to be. Cause KJ clearly hasn't read a god damn thing I've posted this game.
I still feel skeptical about Blue but I can't really pin anything solid down for as to why based on the answers given to me. Sigh. Maybe I'm just tired. I'll leave it be for now. Not a fan of that interaction with osi but I don't think osi is scum.
Also, your vote on me is bad and you should feel bad. You think that I'm scum...because I asked you questions and people didn't like your answers? That's quite the logic gap - doesn't Occam's Razor suggest you're more likely to be scum based on this?
Do you believe the scum have Daytalk? If so, why? If not, why not? I believe I asked this question before.
-
@Az: What are your thoughts on my reasoning behind my reads, whether stated outright or implied? I think my stances on the game are pretty apparent at this point. I'm trying not to get too hung up on the details of making massive posts or PBPAs or ISOs or whatever because I'm still trying to enjoy the game, but get my thoughts out there. Does that make sense?
Anyway, do you trust me? And if so, can I betray you tonight? It's important that we get my ability active ASAP.
Can confirm the veracity of Az's #560.
-
I support LastWhisper claiming at this point just to see if I still want to lynch him.
Relatedly, Killjoy needs more pressure. He looks like he's Mandersbusy in addition to just being generally scummy. Hey Killjoy, what do the green things mean in your osiwall? Also, why do you believe Shinichi needs more pressure at this juncture? I don't really see a case for scumDV. Why do you think tom thinks DV is scum?
Unrelatedly, I think Grapefruit can be town, here. I had thoughts on who Grapefruit could be scum with if he were scum but based on recent occurrences I have to table those thoughts for now and will reconsider later if need be.
-
@Jenna: I predict a Day 1 mislynch. I'm not in control of the game because I don't have the amount of free time that I used to, so we're missing key known-town quantities of momentum-pushing and reaction-garnering based on such. It's sad, but that's just how it is at the moment.
Ugh. I don't like that you referred to a question as "immoral" because that reads a lot like "unfair" and I have only ever seen scum complain about unfair questions. 100% of the time. I even caught myself doing it once, as scum, and quickly changed my wording before submitting my post.
I answered your first question directed at me later. Maliciously? That depends on whether or not they're his scumbuddies.
-
@DV: Hey, now you know how I felt with lockhimup.gif!
-
@tom: Don't waste my time with "Iso is scum" garbage unless you're going to substantiate it. And if you're going to substantiate it, don't waste my time with that, either. Basically, I can't be arsed.
-
@Axel: I didn't really like your RVS post, at all. It felt forced and clunky, which is usually the foot scum that haven't played in a while start on. Afterwards, you felt a lot more at ease, and you talked about you dying extremely casually, which shows a disconnect from the typical scum mindset of survival.
I haven't read too deeply into Phoenix's posts but I think I agree with your assessment on them. I like the tone, there.
Also, read Killjoy's short posts and tell me he's not just doing busywork with his big post to seem busy.
-
@LW: You think there's a dichotomy between LnGrrrR and myself? I'd love to hear the justification on this one.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I;m disappointed Shin missed my vote/didn't get more pressure on him.
So I was wanting to get Shin reacting to pressure on him because I think his reacions to it would tell us a lot about him. This is mostly based on his personality. This was coupled with a feeling that he might be scum possibly based on a couple posts of his.
Ok, NOW break.
No lie I didnt even realize u were voting me Also looking at ur wall now holy *****
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Positively is a bit of a stretch; mixed would be more accurate. Although, I would be more than likely to have you in nulls if we were scumbuddies. This early, though, in this game? If I was scum with you and whisper, I'd probably be bussing you at the least, if not whisper as well.
haha ok. mixed is still far from negative. if I was scum tho, I sure won't be an ez bus. does this say anything? idk about Last but I'm sure his scumgame doesn't suck this bad either. talk about underestimating the newbs.
No offense, but Lastwhisper doesn't seem as easy of a bus...
I think you're just as mislynchable as I am, which inherently means you'd be at least as easily bussable.
Where are these stats coming from? Also there isnot enough information to presume preflip so neither you or Dawn are mislyncble, also stating dawn is bussable seems quite weird its like your setting yourself up so later on you can do it without any feedback.
Stats? Just an impression. Your suggestion here seems like a bit of a stretch.
Why is it a stretch? Its a possibility just as much as stating dawn is easily bussable.
Quote from killjoy »
Ok so, Osie has asked some good questions.
However:
*His progression on various people is weird or nonexistant.
*The way he discusses his scumtells in terms of where they are on the list vs. how scummy he actually views them is scummy.
*Consistant hedging (not super great tell, but could be fencesitting so I'm noting it)
*Quite a bit of fluff. I found myself skipping a lot of posts for being completely useless or just answering basic questions and whatnot.
So, I think in the macro perspective, Osie is scum. Vote Osie
So yea, red things bad. Bold things good. Italic things either. strikethroughs irrelevent.
And now, I'm taking a break.
I don't find his progression non existant I do find his first post about me weird though.
One big question, what about his way of handling az seems off too you?
What do u mean by hedging?
Also compared to your post which has more quality content sure, but your post was more of just a 1 person iso.
The other point I like from your case is the pattern of viewing scum reads in the context of a list. That doesn't feel like a naturally town thing to do. I don't think it outweighs the positives in Osie (I generally have liked their targets).
What is wrong with that context? I dont use lists alot so I cant really see what u and kill joy are seeing.
If you're going to use the term "ISO" (as in, to read a person's posts in isolation), please capitalize it fully so that I can distinguish between my username and the action of ISOing a player, whereas my username has only the capital I. When you don't use this convention and your diction choice is somewhat ambiguous, I find it difficult to understand what's being said. Thanks!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The other point I like from your case is the pattern of viewing scum reads in the context of a list. That doesn't feel like a naturally town thing to do. I don't think it outweighs the positives in Osie (I generally have liked their targets).
What is wrong with that context? I dont use lists alot so I cant really see what u and kill joy are seeing.
It looks like Osie is more worried about maintaining a consistent outward facing worldview than figuring out who is scummiest. The focus on who is lower on the list feels performative and not a natural way to figure out who is town and who is scum.
Also Iso can be in the lean town pile as well. Which gives me: Phoenix, Osie, DV, Iso, and maybe Tom, Axel, and Shin.
Wrongo, boyo! I am, in fact... a town aligned murderer.
I don't need any help.
Hey, KJ. Are you the game's resident neutral perchance? If so, what's the win con you're going to lie about having so that we don't kill you for your more scummy actual win con?
OF COURSE THERE MAY BE TIMES WHEN SOMEONE BETRAYS AND IS TOWN. THERE ARE ALSO TIMES WHERE TOWNIES LIE TO GAMBIT. THAT DOESN'T MEAN EITHEROF THISE THINGS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED DE FACTO TOWN BEHAVIOR.
GF, how has information "come to light" because of me? Shin mentioned the 3 BP thing unbidden. I mentioned I had 4. Then Osi claimed, and then DBS.. kinda claimed.
Which of these do you blame on me?
Feel free to vote me. The sword of Damocles you think you're holding is merely Nerf.
If you know that why are you trying to force people that betray as auto scum? Your being a hypocrit then if u agree with GF.
@Shinichi making a post, immediately making a second one contradicting it, then making a third trying to clean it up. Never change. Also I agree, but in this case they answered before the target had answered. Hence my being weirded out at the personal attack interpretation.
Dont you just love me <3 and I realize i had accidently contradicted myself due to trying to reply on my phone that was why i posted the 3rd time to clarifiy my actual opinion. Oh if thats the case I cant really argue against ur weird feeling.
ITT: I say that betrayal should be looked at as scummy by default, and players who do so should have to defend themselves. Then Tkm says it might be a good choice in later Days when we have more info to counter my statement... *smh*
Vote me then Tom. I am tired of people trying to make it seem like betrayal is totally cool, and I won't be changing my tune, so vote or stop harping on it.
This feels like i am right your wrong pity me plz because i am scared scum afraid of being betrayed, on a serious note you realize people are going to betray regardless of your opinion right?
How does putting limits on what behavior is and isn't acceptable help mafia control the game more so than allowing them to freely betray? Which gives mafia more room to maneuver? Especially Night 1.
i think what youre missing is people have to be accountable for the choices they make.
just making a blanket assumption that scum will betray and town will ally seems unreliable to say the least
im way more interested in the why
feel like im channeling ace attorney right now
Sure, but its about expectations. There are certain mindsets that people identify with scumminess, right? And sometimes, town makes scummy comments. That doesnt mean you throw out your idea/evaluation of what is/isn't scummy. My proposal is that betrayal is viewed as inherently scummy, and those who do so have to justify it. Lynch All Liars doesn't always apply, but it does more times than not.
the whole process on this from lngrrr just does not come from a solving perspective.
hes giving people a map to getting townread by him, and just trying to control what people do. the choice to betray or ally i think will end up being a really important tool for figuring people out in this game, especially later on when we have multiple nights of results and some flips to work with. and hes just trying to head that off now.
more votes here please
I agree in a sense, but its not like he can physically control anybodies decision. So its kinda weird to think he maay be scum unless he has a way to force people to betray. Regardless of what he says if I think its beneficial to betray i would do it, if its not i wont. I think LNG will be figured out after the first night ends.
I'm already tired of all of this DV is scum crap this game.
Its cute a few times. But at this point its just straight up not fun to have a bunch of people say DV's scum cause "DV". And thats the case.
IF your town you have nothing to worry about cause it will show itself eventually, also why are you pointing fingers at just KJ if your implying that others are also calling you scum for being DV lol.
possible scumbuds with Last would be in.. idk, Shinichi/Osie/Killjoy. says he's not sure about Shinichi, Osie backed off after a bit of whiteknighting, probably had scum theatre with Killjoy.
Bah.
You're fake news.
FakingNewsSky. DawningFakeNews.
You're probably not even a good day 1 lynch... That said, whether or not you are scum, your approach to this game is anti-town.
I was uncertain before, but hey, at least now I have a scumread.
Vote Dawningbluesky
Jeez your view does change quickly, if shes not a good day 1 lynch why even bother voting her? Also you are lacking conviction in this post which makes it hard for me to see you as town right now.
Also one DawningBlueSky doesn't look great coming out of that post and including themselves in a hypothetical scum team is just the weirdest thing I've ever seen.
This is a good point. I went along with her hypothetical because I didn't think it was that big a deal, but it is abnormal in or out of my personal mafia experience.
Killjoy's read on me is questionable. Finding tells on both sides is a positive for him, but it's not clear if the read as a whole was actually organic or was an overwrought production.
Not a fan of how now ur seeing what GF is seeing. What made you look over it the first time?
Also as for ur response to that read its your job to disprove it so if you saw it any other way i would be worried.
he's talking about his scumreads not in terms of how he actually feels, but their position on his scumlist. Like, it's trying to stay in line with what he has on his scumlist as opposed to who he actually thinks is scum at this time.
My readlist is a noting down of some of my feelings on people from a specific moment in time. My feelings on people are both more complex than that, and regularly change, sometimes radically. Keep in mind also that nobody has gotten into scumreads on a readslist this game for me so far, only leans. I've seen both town and scum bits from the majority of players. This was also part of why I waited a while to vote; I haven't found anyone that I'm 100% on.
Hmm maybe thats why I dont see what your doing as a bad thing because that kinda comes natural to me. My reads can change sporadically based on a post to post basis. If you had to pick a person to lock your vote on right now who would it be?
Give me one reason i should believe u have more than 4 bp? Also this something in ur role pm clarify why u had 4, or did u think everyone had 4 at the time?
Yes I know this is role fishing, but idc because I think the claim of ahving 4 BP needs to be explained better or its bs.
Someone else claimed they had 4 bp, if thats true I hope their stories amtch.
Ok good, you're here last whisper. Let's have a chat. Who's scum? DO you still think I'm scum?
I didnt think u were scum anymore after we had our little quarrel.
Im not a fan of lists, and I cant say much about kill joy since I havent looked a lot into him, but if there are 3 mafia, then 1 of them is probably between Grr/Iso and Idk how I feel about Phoenix or Azreal right now.
When did I stop being scum to you? Tell me why you think there are 3 scum?
17 players, so either 3 scum and no tpr, 3 scum and 1 tpr, or 4 scum. and I did say "if", so idk why u want a more detailed explanation. Idk much balance wise when it comes to scum/player ratio, so that is just my guess...
From my perspective of creating mafia games i would say
4/1/12
3/2/12
3/3/1
I believe the first 2 are more likely, not like it amttters though since we wont be able able to get anything out of this information as of yet.
Ok good, you're here last whisper. Let's have a chat. Who's scum? DO you still think I'm scum?
I didnt think u were scum anymore after we had our little quarrel.
Im not a fan of lists, and I cant say much about kill joy since I havent looked a lot into him, but if there are 3 mafia, then 1 of them is probably between Grr/Iso and Idk how I feel about Phoenix or Azreal right now.
When did I stop being scum to you? Tell me why you think there are 3 scum?
17 players, so either 3 scum and no tpr, 3 scum and 1 tpr, or 4 scum. and I did say "if", so idk why u want a more detailed explanation. Idk much balance wise when it comes to scum/player ratio, so that is just my guess...
From my perspective of creating mafia games i would say
4/1/12
3/2/12
3/3/1
I believe the first 2 are more likely, not like it amttters though since we wont be able able to get anything out of this information as of yet.
Full game iso complete. Results compute as follows, most townish top, least descending:
[b]Town[/b]
Az
realstinky – some weirdish role speculation and some weird piling on on last whisper. Not sure.
Has a good read on LW’s post being scummish though. I like it.
jenna- stylistically weird, but town, esp if truly new.
Shinichi- they allege a townslip. I’m not so sure. Scum would have reason to be confident of that, also people who knew the source material null
Phoenix fire- no pings, decent attitude.
Tom – He’s after lngrrr. Hmm. Hard. And he’s probably right. Good tone throughout.
Dawn- doesn’t mind claiming. Good mindset.
Shinichi – no pings. Seems decently open.
DV– Has stupid backup role. +Town. No pingage.
Axelrod – meh. No pings.
Scum or Neutral Killing Role?[/b]
Killjoy – 1stish post stilts. Subsequent posts, great! Natural resp to poke, attack on LW. Hints at being town-aligned murderer. Bloodthirsty vs. Shinichi post.
[b]Scum-[/b]
Iso- Unsure what to make of low-level activity, or posts thus far. Does not appear to be focused on info-generation, however.
Lastwhisper -1st post stilts and 2nd post. Persevered thru pressure afterwards, no strong reads. Osie- neighborizer. Very casual. Weak early pressure on two probably scum lngr and grape, that goes nowhere. From role analysis standpoint, if Bur was inspired by Az games, neighborizer is +scum. For whatever that’s worth.
Lngrrr – Dislike stance on Shinichi, as he claims to have more than 5 BP himself. Conversing without taking definitive stances.
grape- lots of referree’s, grading other players’ posting quality, without conviction.
I'm pretty ready to go all in on those Lngrr and Grape reads now. Couple other people, such as Tom, spotted those before I did. They're good shots to take.
Full game iso complete. Results compute as follows, most townish top, least descending:
[b]Town[/b]
Az
realstinky – some weirdish role speculation and some weird piling on on last whisper. Not sure.
Has a good read on LW’s post being scummish though. I like it.
jenna- stylistically weird, but town, esp if truly new.
Shinichi- they allege a townslip. I’m not so sure. Scum would have reason to be confident of that, also people who knew the source material null
Phoenix fire- no pings, decent attitude.
Tom – He’s after lngrrr. Hmm. Hard. And he’s probably right. Good tone throughout.
Dawn- doesn’t mind claiming. Good mindset.
Shinichi – no pings. Seems decently open.
DV– Has stupid backup role. +Town. No pingage.
Axelrod – meh. No pings.
Scum or Neutral Killing Role?[/b]
Killjoy – 1stish post stilts. Subsequent posts, great! Natural resp to poke, attack on LW. Hints at being town-aligned murderer. Bloodthirsty vs. Shinichi post.
[b]Scum-[/b]
Iso- Unsure what to make of low-level activity, or posts thus far. Does not appear to be focused on info-generation, however.
Lastwhisper -1st post stilts and 2nd post. Persevered thru pressure afterwards, no strong reads. Osie- neighborizer. Very casual. Weak early pressure on two probably scum lngr and grape, that goes nowhere. From role analysis standpoint, if Bur was inspired by Az games, neighborizer is +scum. For whatever that’s worth.
Lngrrr – Dislike stance on Shinichi, as he claims to have more than 5 BP himself. Conversing without taking definitive stances.
grape- lots of referree’s, grading other players’ posting quality, without conviction.
I'm pretty ready to go all in on those Lngrr and Grape reads now. Couple other people, such as Tom, spotted those before I did. They're good shots to take.
1. Dont see why how you see me as scum...
2. who claimed 5 BP?
3. Usual Grape play imo, and a lot of people in this game have graded peoples post.
and I am more of a willing to lynch type of guy:
Lngrr, ISO, Killjoy, Azreal, Phoenix, DV at least so far
and you like stinky for town because he thinks im scummy. ok... actually too of your town reads are because they agree with ur scum... is that what we call pocketing???
Give me one reason i should believe u have more than 4 bp? Also this something in ur role pm clarify why u had 4, or did u think everyone had 4 at the time?
Yes I know this is role fishing, but idc because I think the claim of ahving 4 BP needs to be explained better or its bs.
Someone else claimed they had 4 bp, if thats true I hope their stories amtch.
I only said "I have more than 3. I'm good." nothing explained to me why everyone would have 4, but it's a smart allocation to prevent insta-kill in the first AB game, so I assumed everyone would have 4.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I actually agree with the scumread on Grape btw. ik he tends to waffle but this time he hasn't accomplished much in discerning alignments or interacting, also asked ppl to vote me based off my interaction/questioning with another player (Iso) without looking into my perspective/answers that I presented to his insisting. I'm also sure there was scum on my train, and the most I can think of is him.
Iso gets my vote for pushing the argument on me tho, and he hasn't done anything with my answer now that I finally answered his "if Last was scum, who are his scumbuds". first and foremost, that was forcing a non-existent answer out of me, secondly that accomplished nothing for him as he hasn't replied to that - other than pushing a train on me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Derp. Those notes on realstink are copy-pasted from my word doc file and are obviously outdated. He's very high on my +town list, since then.
a bit of a silly question but anything to get a feel of ur alignment:
what do u think about the Last vs Terry trains? the main players to detract from Last was me and...who else...Osie? why would I be a townlean for u if I derailed the Last train, if Last is ur scumread?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
See, you guys wonder why I keep harping on mechanics, and it is because people keep asking questions.
Shin, I am saying that BETRAYAL should be seen as a scummy choice. Unless you have been overwhelmingly townie, OR you have stated in advance that you plan on betraying, then a betrayal will be seen as scummy by me.I mean, did anyone actually read my first post?
Me: "Btw, if you betray I am going to assume you are scum unless you note the reasons publicly, ahead of time. I will be paying attention."
Did I say I wouldn't be paying attention to the game? Did I say one betrayal = scum for life? Jeezum crow.
AFAIK, GF's stance is that is is perfectly acceptable in any case for anyone to betray, and it is not alignment indicative, which is not my stance at all.
@Azrael earlier this page you were talking about trusting Iso enough to let him betray you if it wasn't for your low BP (post 672 sorry for no links on mobile) but in 680 you have him in your scum pool. What changed?
Also I've lacked conviction? Would like some evidence of that.
Shin, I realize people are going to betray. But I don't want betrayal to be "acceptable" without justification. And I can't make anyone betray, so being loud and forceful about trying to set that up as an expectation is my only option.
Also, I claimed 4 BP. It says it in bold on my role PM.
@Az, who claimed more than 5 BP? Please expound upon me not taking stances.
If your reads fluxuate, verbalize them more then. The point where your reads change are nonexistant in the thread.
I'm not going to include a detailed description of my thoughts on each player every post or even every couple posts. That's a recipe for losing interest in this game quickly.
The way you handle him is weird if you're scum and he's not though. Similarly if you don't kow his alignment.
I mean, how friendly I act towards people, especially someone who I've played with a decent amount, doesn't have particularly much to do with alignment or suspected alignment. Especially in the case of D_V, where I'm going to act friendly because I was tired of the alternative half a year ago.
The timing of this is... so bad. Like, you see the wagon building... don't acknowledge it, then hop on?
Also, now that he's getting a wagon, you're certain he's scum?
What about this quote screams scum at you?
It doesn't even scream scum. It screams bad. Even if she's not scum, she's actively detracting from the team as town. That said, she's made it clear that she is experienced to some degree. Which leads me to believe that this is more likely to be a scumtell.
If you're going to use the term "ISO" (as in, to read a person's posts in isolation), please capitalize it fully so that I can distinguish between my username and the action of ISOing a player, whereas my username has only the capital I. When you don't use this convention and your diction choice is somewhat ambiguous, I find it difficult to understand what's being said. Thanks!
Note to self: ISO Iso in isolation from Iso's isotopy with isO & ISO.
You have a point, though. I like also that people have been using Osie instead of Osi, which does help to lower the confusion level to a small degree.
It looks like Osie is more worried about maintaining a consistent outward facing worldview than figuring out who is scummiest.
Really? I guess? I couldn't care much less than I do about a consistent outward-facing worldview... If I did, I'd probably make a lot fewer jokes this game.
Jeez your view does change quickly, if shes not a good day 1 lynch why even bother voting her? Also you are lacking conviction in this post which makes it hard for me to see you as town right now.
I think I basically answered this earlier in this very post, but let me know if you want me to say more on it.
Not a fan of how now ur seeing what GF is seeing. What made you look over it the first time?
I didn't look over it, I just wasn't thinking that much into it on a first read. It's something I did at least once before as town, but after later thinking more over my recollection of that other game, it was generally considered to look bad.
If you had to pick a person to lock your vote on right now who would it be?
I'd start by limiting it down to Killjoy, Dawning, LnGrrrR, and Lastwhisper. I'm relatively null on both LnGrrrR and Lastwhisper, especially compared to Killjoy. Dawning is a problem, and I want to keep my vote there until she stops being as much of a problem, either through lynch or by behaving enough like town. If Dawning's play wasn't an issue, I'd lock on Killjoy in a heartbeat.
I am fine with voting DBS. I think post 520 is just horrible, threatening those who vote him, trying to claim a power role but also trying to make someone look scummy by asking for it.
Well sure, I will take that bluff. Claim DBS, so as you said, we can "get on with something more productive".
possible scumbuds with Last would be in.. idk, Shinichi/Osie/Killjoy. says he's not sure about Shinichi, Osie backed off after a bit of whiteknighting, probably had scum theatre with Killjoy.
Bah.
You're fake news.
FakingNewsSky. DawningFakeNews.
You're probably not even a good day 1 lynch... That said, whether or not you are scum, your approach to this game is anti-town.
I was uncertain before, but hey, at least now I have a scumread.
Vote Dawningbluesky
LngrrR's vote uses language that's more aware of it's place on the wagon. He says "I'm fine with voting Dawn" which indirectly alludes to the wagon surrounding his vote. He also indicates specific reasoning for the vote. As a whole, it creates accountability to the vote. (NTS: I'm wondering if this indicates a town!LngrrR)
Osie acts like he doesn't notice the rest of the thread voting Dawn, doesn't give specific reasons why he's voting, and, for some reason, tacks onto the end a way to wave accountability if Dawn is town (which I'm guessing he is), which is something town does not do. He even nails-in-the-coffin with a final "I was uncertain before but not I have a scumread". It just doesn't feel natural.
]ok. I don't see Last as scum so I haven't thought about a potential team. if u insist to get an answer from my non-existent pov, it's likely to feel forced. not my problem.
possible scumbuds with Last would be in.. idk, Shinichi/Osie/Killjoy. says he's not sure about Shinichi, Osie backed off after a bit of whiteknighting, probably had scum theatre with Killjoy. I recall DV/Iso/Azrael having interacted with Last, but nothing significant to memory.
I think this quote is especially relevant given KJ's big post. Vote DBS with me peeps. Bolding mine.
Explain your thinking here. You seem to be trying to link Dawn and Osie via my post. You're literally referencing my post which you agreed with that Osie is scum, and using it to say that Dawn is scum, so we should vote Dawn?
****. Wondering now. Grape/Osie scumteam?
----------- @DV: I feel like there's nothing I can say to get you to see things objectively. You're very emotionally invested in making me dead, and it's clouding you. When you decide you wanna stop dismissing me as FOS and wanna actually talk to me, I'm all for it. Until then, tunnel me all you want, I guess.
Relatedly, Killjoy needs more pressure. He looks like he's Mandersbusy in addition to just being generally scummy. Hey Killjoy, what do the green things mean in your osiwall? Also, why do you believe Shinichi needs more pressure at this juncture? I don't really see a case for scumDV. Why do you think tom thinks DV is scum?
Firstly... attributing other's scumtells to me isn't a rational argument. I'm not Manders.
The Green things were Osie, not me.
I said before. I beleive pressure on Shin would yield results as to his alignment.
Ergo, I have a gut feeling based on personality and posting style that how he reacts to pressure is a tell for him. Hence the initial vote.
I don't think it's necessary anymore. There's probably enough to determine his alignment now.
Where did I say tom thinks DV is scum? You're losing me there.
One big question, what about his way of handling az seems off too you?
What do u mean by hedging?
Also compared to your post which has more quality content sure, but your post was more of just a 1 person iso.
Osie was handling him with kiddie gloves. He also literally said he didn't want to annoy Az.
Hedging is a way of adding modifiers to ideas that change them.
Like, I think Person X is scum for now.
Instead of just saying "Person X is scum", the hedge "I think" indicates an opinion (which could be wrong) and "for now" allows that opinion to change in the future.
As I said, hedging isn't definitive. Town aren't always confident either. But scum are more likely to since it gives them outs.
"Also compared to your post which has more quality content sure, but your post was more of just a 1 person iso. "
This makes no sense to me. Can you restate?
Wrongo, boyo! I am, in fact... a town aligned murderer.
I don't need any help.
Hey, KJ. Are you the game's resident neutral perchance? If so, what's the win con you're going to lie about having so that we don't kill you for your more scummy actual win con?
Common sense would dictate no.
Are you seriously asking me this?
Full game iso complete. Results compute as follows, most townish top, least descending:
Town
Az
realstinky – some weirdish role speculation and some weird piling on on last whisper. Not sure.
Has a good read on LW’s post being scummish though. I like it.
jenna- stylistically weird, but town, esp if truly new.
Shinichi- they allege a townslip. I’m not so sure. Scum would have reason to be confident of that, also people who knew the source material null
Phoenix fire- no pings, decent attitude.
Tom – He’s after lngrrr. Hmm. Hard. And he’s probably right. Good tone throughout.
Dawn- doesn’t mind claiming. Good mindset.
Shinichi – no pings. Seems decently open.
DV– Has stupid backup role. +Town. No pingage.
Axelrod – meh. No pings.
Scum or Neutral Killing Role?
Killjoy – 1stish post stilts. Subsequent posts, great! Natural resp to poke, attack on LW. Hints at being town-aligned murderer. Bloodthirsty vs. Shinichi post.
Scum-
Iso- Unsure what to make of low-level activity, or posts thus far. Does not appear to be focused on info-generation, however.
Lastwhisper -1st post stilts and 2nd post. Persevered thru pressure afterwards, no strong reads. Osie- neighborizer. Very casual. Weak early pressure on two probably scum lngr and grape, that goes nowhere. From role analysis standpoint, if Bur was inspired by Az games, neighborizer is +scum. For whatever that’s worth.
Lngrrr – Dislike stance on Shinichi, as he claims to have more than 5 BP himself. Conversing without taking definitive stances.
grape- lots of referree’s, grading other players’ posting quality, without conviction.
I'm pretty ready to go all in on those Lngrr and Grape reads now. Couple other people, such as Tom, spotted those before I did. They're good shots to take.
Why do you have me as Scum when your description seems to imply you think I've been townie?
Also I dislike the shalowness of these. Where's Revolution Az that caught basically the whole scumteam in RVS?
I'm not going to include a detailed description of my thoughts on each player every post or even every couple posts. That's a recipe for losing interest in this game quickly.
C'mon now. You're smarter than that. You know that's not what I'm asking you for. Like, you vote Dawning in 158 while asking him a few questions... And that vote is the only indication that you're scumreading him. Your tone says nothing to it, you certainly never explicitly say it.Then, your next vote is 228 on LnGrrR.
At this point, basically the same story. You have a couple questions to him in the spoiler post, but aside from that, nothing.
I mean, how friendly I act towards people, especially someone who I've played with a decent amount, doesn't have particularly much to do with alignment or suspected alignment. Especially in the case of D_V, where I'm going to act friendly because I was tired of the alternative half a year ago.
It doesn't even scream scum. It screams bad. Even if she's not scum, she's actively detracting from the team as town. That said, she's made it clear that she is experienced to some degree. Which leads me to believe that this is more likely to be a scumtell.
Bull*****. You literally say at the end of the post that you now have a scumtell whhen you didn't before. That means you think he's scum.
Do not try to walk this back.
What kind of a reasoning is that? Are you for real right now?
Scum naturally tend to overthink arguments. They need to figure out what town looks like arguing, what counterarguments might pop up (and the responses to those), and, most importantly, not die.
Dawn's arguments on me achieve none of those goals.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Why do you have me as Scum when your description seems to imply you think I've been townie?
Also I dislike the shalowness of these. Where's Revolution Az that caught basically the whole scumteam in RVS?
Still here, plus a law firm and two kids. I spend as much time thinking about my reads as before, but much less prettying them up for other people to look at and understand, at least at this point in the game.
Iso was going to land in my null pile, but since i had only a 3 people in scum, I bumped him down. More because his behavior is a question mark for me, than because I have strong feelings about him. Under 30 post Iso is a creature I'm not used to encountering, but I don't have either a pro-town or pro-scum exclusive explanation for it.
a bit of a silly question but anything to get a feel of ur alignment:
what do u think about the Last vs Terry trains? the main players to detract from Last was me and...who else...Osie? why would I be a townlean for u if I derailed the Last train, if Last is ur scumread?
Townies derail scum wagons all the time. What I care about is how you looked, while doing it. Plus, my reads are subject to change pretty regularly, so I don't try to force myself into an all-consistent scum-list world view. Its too likely to twist my arm into manufactured inaccuracy. If I can aim for a 50% hit rate on scum with my first list, that's plenty good.
I welcome questions. I can't promise a good or clear answer, but I can promise a sincere and well-intentioned one.
Especially for longer posts, I like to write them in a text file and then transition them over.
And I don't take much from it at all
If your reads fluxuate, verbalize them more then. The point where your reads change are nonexistant in the thread.
The way you handle him is weird if you're scum and he's not though. Similarly if you don't kow his alignment.
The timing of this is... so bad. Like, you see the wagon building... don't acknowledge it, then hop on?
Also, now that he's getting a wagon, you're certain he's scum?
What about this quote screams scum at you?
That's not the case. I'll try to write something up soonish.
Be sure to answer my questions on the Osie post and Osie's dawn vote.
Hm.
Are you saying that you don't think the read was organic?
This is just... increadibly simplistic. It's also probably wrong for that reason.
...
Did you roll scum again LngrrR?
Nothing recent as far as scum goes. My most recent scumgame will be in my sig.
For town, Jurrasic Park Adventure, Low Fantasy, Revolution. Probably all on the first page of the Mafia subforum. Too lazy to make links right now.
Note to self: Invent brand of condoms marketed specificially for kinky sex. Name them this.
You know... I wanna say dawn is town simply for how little thought is going into these arguements about me. First moving my rvs vote was bad, now talking to DV makes me scum?
Do scum really do this? Also he's voting Iso. Going against the grain agian.
If he is town, I'm curious who on the wagon is scum. At least one, I think.
@Killjoy Do you see much of a difference between Osie and LnGrreR votes bopping on the DBS train?
@LastWhisper I was referring to your reaction to Shinichi's post where you said you'd be surprised if you flipped scum when I said he and I weren't pushing you as scum. It seemed like a reaction that didn't match the quoted text at all.
@Jenna what do you make of LnGrrrR? What about DawningBlue?
Well you claim to have read me, and think I'm scum. So nope. I don't think you've read a damn thing I've said at all this game. If you had you would no my reasons.
Scum skim look for things to comment on, have less reason to be invested in the game because they are not really scum hunting. Etc. Come on this is simple mafia. Really?
Dude really. You mind melded with Tom. Tom had him as very town.
You "Mindmelded".
You literally didn't in the rest of this post. Just this one. It screams of waffle.
I did read through it. Did you? Because "Maybe he's just newer and falls into the trap of trying to defend themselves instead of scumhunting?"
Do you even know what you wrote? That's so waffle there.
Oh come on. You really think I'm going to let you get away with "IT was two whole posts" How is that a "Vigorous defense?"
Except your statement was that LW was "Sort of town" and "Maybe a newbie". Now all of a sudden hes town v town with Terry. This just says "Hey guys I know that Terry is town and I need to clear him somehow"
This is my point with both of these. Its just comments for comments sake. Or as I like to dub it. "Active lurking" Content, with no meaning.
You mind melded tom. He's town. You either walk back that bull***** buddy attempt now or I'm going to ram this down your throat for the rest of the game.
I haven't read the osie case yet. I'll do that soon. IE after this.
I did read what you said. I don't understand how you can't recall what else hes done. And even in pressuring he was tonally town. Or can you not read what I said?
I thought Axel read as town. And I put meh going not much disagreement.
I'm not anymore. If you had been reading me you would have known that. But you're really sure I'm scum right?
Naw.
I think Tom is Tom. Pretty sure he's town for a specific reason this game. I'm watching it.
Alright now for KJ's case on Osie.
Most of what he has in red that he says is bad. He says is Null or meh a lot of times at the beginning of his sentences. Then he says the Macro is that osie is scum. Which can't be possibly true since the Osie case actually nets Osie as net positive on town points when you ignore the crappy color coding system and actually read the arguments being made.
Its like it was a manufactured case just like the case on me is going to be. Cause KJ clearly hasn't read a god damn thing I've posted this game.
Lynch KJ.
Also, your vote on me is bad and you should feel bad. You think that I'm scum...because I asked you questions and people didn't like your answers? That's quite the logic gap - doesn't Occam's Razor suggest you're more likely to be scum based on this?
Do you believe the scum have Daytalk? If so, why? If not, why not? I believe I asked this question before.
-
@Az: What are your thoughts on my reasoning behind my reads, whether stated outright or implied? I think my stances on the game are pretty apparent at this point. I'm trying not to get too hung up on the details of making massive posts or PBPAs or ISOs or whatever because I'm still trying to enjoy the game, but get my thoughts out there. Does that make sense?
Anyway, do you trust me? And if so, can I betray you tonight? It's important that we get my ability active ASAP.
Can confirm the veracity of Az's #560.
-
I support LastWhisper claiming at this point just to see if I still want to lynch him.
Relatedly, Killjoy needs more pressure. He looks like he's Mandersbusy in addition to just being generally scummy. Hey Killjoy, what do the green things mean in your osiwall? Also, why do you believe Shinichi needs more pressure at this juncture? I don't really see a case for scumDV. Why do you think tom thinks DV is scum?
Unrelatedly, I think Grapefruit can be town, here. I had thoughts on who Grapefruit could be scum with if he were scum but based on recent occurrences I have to table those thoughts for now and will reconsider later if need be.
-
@Jenna: I predict a Day 1 mislynch. I'm not in control of the game because I don't have the amount of free time that I used to, so we're missing key known-town quantities of momentum-pushing and reaction-garnering based on such. It's sad, but that's just how it is at the moment.
Ugh. I don't like that you referred to a question as "immoral" because that reads a lot like "unfair" and I have only ever seen scum complain about unfair questions. 100% of the time. I even caught myself doing it once, as scum, and quickly changed my wording before submitting my post.
I answered your first question directed at me later. Maliciously? That depends on whether or not they're his scumbuddies.
-
@DV: Hey, now you know how I felt with lockhimup.gif!
-
@tom: Don't waste my time with "Iso is scum" garbage unless you're going to substantiate it. And if you're going to substantiate it, don't waste my time with that, either. Basically, I can't be arsed.
-
@Axel: I didn't really like your RVS post, at all. It felt forced and clunky, which is usually the foot scum that haven't played in a while start on. Afterwards, you felt a lot more at ease, and you talked about you dying extremely casually, which shows a disconnect from the typical scum mindset of survival.
I haven't read too deeply into Phoenix's posts but I think I agree with your assessment on them. I like the tone, there.
Also, read Killjoy's short posts and tell me he's not just doing busywork with his big post to seem busy.
-
@LW: You think there's a dichotomy between LnGrrrR and myself? I'd love to hear the justification on this one.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No lie I didnt even realize u were voting me Also looking at ur wall now holy *****
hahahahaha
Killjoy admits that he made the case up and that he's just pushing it because he put the effort into it, but doesn't actually believe it
hahahahaha
Unvote, Vote Killjoy
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why is it a stretch? Its a possibility just as much as stating dawn is easily bussable.
I don't find his progression non existant I do find his first post about me weird though.
One big question, what about his way of handling az seems off too you?
What do u mean by hedging?
Also compared to your post which has more quality content sure, but your post was more of just a 1 person iso.
What is wrong with that context? I dont use lists alot so I cant really see what u and kill joy are seeing.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If that wouldn't kill me, I'd think seriously about it.
Also, the pairings are assigned at random. So, yeah...
It looks like Osie is more worried about maintaining a consistent outward facing worldview than figuring out who is scummiest. The focus on who is lower on the list feels performative and not a natural way to figure out who is town and who is scum.
Also Iso can be in the lean town pile as well. Which gives me: Phoenix, Osie, DV, Iso, and maybe Tom, Axel, and Shin.
*peruses*
Hey, KJ. Are you the game's resident neutral perchance? If so, what's the win con you're going to lie about having so that we don't kill you for your more scummy actual win con?
THis is another reason people cant take u seriously lol, and may be why some have just assumed DV is scum.
If you know that why are you trying to force people that betray as auto scum? Your being a hypocrit then if u agree with GF.
Dont you just love me <3 and I realize i had accidently contradicted myself due to trying to reply on my phone that was why i posted the 3rd time to clarifiy my actual opinion. Oh if thats the case I cant really argue against ur weird feeling.
This feels like i am right your wrong pity me plz because i am scared scum afraid of being betrayed, on a serious note you realize people are going to betray regardless of your opinion right?
I agree in a sense, but its not like he can physically control anybodies decision. So its kinda weird to think he maay be scum unless he has a way to force people to betray. Regardless of what he says if I think its beneficial to betray i would do it, if its not i wont. I think LNG will be figured out after the first night ends.
IF your town you have nothing to worry about cause it will show itself eventually, also why are you pointing fingers at just KJ if your implying that others are also calling you scum for being DV lol.
Jeez your view does change quickly, if shes not a good day 1 lynch why even bother voting her? Also you are lacking conviction in this post which makes it hard for me to see you as town right now.
Not a fan of how now ur seeing what GF is seeing. What made you look over it the first time?
Also as for ur response to that read its your job to disprove it so if you saw it any other way i would be worried.
Hmm maybe thats why I dont see what your doing as a bad thing because that kinda comes natural to me. My reads can change sporadically based on a post to post basis. If you had to pick a person to lock your vote on right now who would it be?
Give me one reason i should believe u have more than 4 bp? Also this something in ur role pm clarify why u had 4, or did u think everyone had 4 at the time?
Yes I know this is role fishing, but idc because I think the claim of ahving 4 BP needs to be explained better or its bs.
Someone else claimed they had 4 bp, if thats true I hope their stories amtch.
From my perspective of creating mafia games i would say
4/1/12
3/2/12
3/3/1
I believe the first 2 are more likely, not like it amttters though since we wont be able able to get anything out of this information as of yet.
Thats suppose to be an 11 not a 1 lol
[b]Town[/b]
Az
realstinky – some weirdish role speculation and some weird piling on on last whisper. Not sure.
Has a good read on LW’s post being scummish though. I like it.
jenna- stylistically weird, but town, esp if truly new.
Shinichi- they allege a townslip. I’m not so sure. Scum would have reason to be confident of that, also people who knew the source material null
Phoenix fire- no pings, decent attitude.
Tom – He’s after lngrrr. Hmm. Hard. And he’s probably right. Good tone throughout.
Dawn- doesn’t mind claiming. Good mindset.
Shinichi – no pings. Seems decently open.
DV– Has stupid backup role. +Town. No pingage.
Axelrod – meh. No pings.
Scum or Neutral Killing Role?[/b]
Killjoy – 1stish post stilts. Subsequent posts, great! Natural resp to poke, attack on LW. Hints at being town-aligned murderer. Bloodthirsty vs. Shinichi post.
[b]Scum-[/b]
Iso- Unsure what to make of low-level activity, or posts thus far. Does not appear to be focused on info-generation, however.
Lastwhisper -1st post stilts and 2nd post. Persevered thru pressure afterwards, no strong reads. Osie- neighborizer. Very casual. Weak early pressure on two probably scum lngr and grape, that goes nowhere. From role analysis standpoint, if Bur was inspired by Az games, neighborizer is +scum. For whatever that’s worth.
Lngrrr – Dislike stance on Shinichi, as he claims to have more than 5 BP himself. Conversing without taking definitive stances.
grape- lots of referree’s, grading other players’ posting quality, without conviction.
I'm pretty ready to go all in on those Lngrr and Grape reads now. Couple other people, such as Tom, spotted those before I did. They're good shots to take.
1. Dont see why how you see me as scum...
2. who claimed 5 BP?
3. Usual Grape play imo, and a lot of people in this game have graded peoples post.
and I am more of a willing to lynch type of guy:
Lngrr, ISO, Killjoy, Azreal, Phoenix, DV at least so far
and you like stinky for town because he thinks im scummy. ok... actually too of your town reads are because they agree with ur scum... is that what we call pocketing???
also what is mind melding?
Be grateful, always."
I actually agree with the scumread on Grape btw. ik he tends to waffle but this time he hasn't accomplished much in discerning alignments or interacting, also asked ppl to vote me based off my interaction/questioning with another player (Iso) without looking into my perspective/answers that I presented to his insisting. I'm also sure there was scum on my train, and the most I can think of is him.
Iso gets my vote for pushing the argument on me tho, and he hasn't done anything with my answer now that I finally answered his "if Last was scum, who are his scumbuds". first and foremost, that was forcing a non-existent answer out of me, secondly that accomplished nothing for him as he hasn't replied to that - other than pushing a train on me.
Be grateful, always."
what do u think about the Last vs Terry trains? the main players to detract from Last was me and...who else...Osie? why would I be a townlean for u if I derailed the Last train, if Last is ur scumread?
Be grateful, always."
dawn, you’re talking out of your ass at this point. Please point to all of my posts where I am pushing your wagon.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Shin, I am saying that BETRAYAL should be seen as a scummy choice. Unless you have been overwhelmingly townie, OR you have stated in advance that you plan on betraying, then a betrayal will be seen as scummy by me.I mean, did anyone actually read my first post?
Me: "Btw, if you betray I am going to assume you are scum unless you note the reasons publicly, ahead of time. I will be paying attention."
Did I say I wouldn't be paying attention to the game? Did I say one betrayal = scum for life? Jeezum crow.
AFAIK, GF's stance is that is is perfectly acceptable in any case for anyone to betray, and it is not alignment indicative, which is not my stance at all.
KJ, no I didnt roll scum. Did you?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Also I've lacked conviction? Would like some evidence of that.
Also, I claimed 4 BP. It says it in bold on my role PM.
@Az, who claimed more than 5 BP? Please expound upon me not taking stances.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'm not going to include a detailed description of my thoughts on each player every post or even every couple posts. That's a recipe for losing interest in this game quickly.
I mean, how friendly I act towards people, especially someone who I've played with a decent amount, doesn't have particularly much to do with alignment or suspected alignment. Especially in the case of D_V, where I'm going to act friendly because I was tired of the alternative half a year ago.
It doesn't even scream scum. It screams bad. Even if she's not scum, she's actively detracting from the team as town. That said, she's made it clear that she is experienced to some degree. Which leads me to believe that this is more likely to be a scumtell.
What kind of a reasoning is that? Are you for real right now?
~~~~~~~~~~~
@Iso: Are my posts still confusing to you?
~~~~~~~~~~~
Do you believe that as scum, I'd tell you what I'm going to do before I do it?
~~~~~~~~~~~
Note to self: ISO Iso in isolation from Iso's isotopy with isO & ISO.
You have a point, though. I like also that people have been using Osie instead of Osi, which does help to lower the confusion level to a small degree.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Really? I guess? I couldn't care much less than I do about a consistent outward-facing worldview... If I did, I'd probably make a lot fewer jokes this game.
~~~~~~~~~~~
I think I basically answered this earlier in this very post, but let me know if you want me to say more on it.
I didn't look over it, I just wasn't thinking that much into it on a first read. It's something I did at least once before as town, but after later thinking more over my recollection of that other game, it was generally considered to look bad.
I'd start by limiting it down to Killjoy, Dawning, LnGrrrR, and Lastwhisper. I'm relatively null on both LnGrrrR and Lastwhisper, especially compared to Killjoy. Dawning is a problem, and I want to keep my vote there until she stops being as much of a problem, either through lynch or by behaving enough like town. If Dawning's play wasn't an issue, I'd lock on Killjoy in a heartbeat.
~~~~~~~~~~~
@Azrael: Are you just bored scum this game?
Lez Go.
For reference:
LngrrR's vote uses language that's more aware of it's place on the wagon. He says "I'm fine with voting Dawn" which indirectly alludes to the wagon surrounding his vote. He also indicates specific reasoning for the vote. As a whole, it creates accountability to the vote. (NTS: I'm wondering if this indicates a town!LngrrR)
Osie acts like he doesn't notice the rest of the thread voting Dawn, doesn't give specific reasons why he's voting, and, for some reason, tacks onto the end a way to wave accountability if Dawn is town (which I'm guessing he is), which is something town does not do. He even nails-in-the-coffin with a final "I was uncertain before but not I have a scumread". It just doesn't feel natural.
--------------
While quoting, I reread this. Explain your thinking here. You seem to be trying to link Dawn and Osie via my post. You're literally referencing my post which you agreed with that Osie is scum, and using it to say that Dawn is scum, so we should vote Dawn?
****. Wondering now. Grape/Osie scumteam?
-----------
@DV: I feel like there's nothing I can say to get you to see things objectively. You're very emotionally invested in making me dead, and it's clouding you. When you decide you wanna stop dismissing me as FOS and wanna actually talk to me, I'm all for it. Until then, tunnel me all you want, I guess.
Firstly... attributing other's scumtells to me isn't a rational argument. I'm not Manders.
The Green things were Osie, not me.
I said before. I beleive pressure on Shin would yield results as to his alignment.
Ergo, I have a gut feeling based on personality and posting style that how he reacts to pressure is a tell for him. Hence the initial vote.
I don't think it's necessary anymore. There's probably enough to determine his alignment now.
Where did I say tom thinks DV is scum? You're losing me there.
For someone supposedly so good at mafia, nuance seems lost on you.
Osie was handling him with kiddie gloves. He also literally said he didn't want to annoy Az.
Hedging is a way of adding modifiers to ideas that change them.
Like, I think Person X is scum for now.
Instead of just saying "Person X is scum", the hedge "I think" indicates an opinion (which could be wrong) and "for now" allows that opinion to change in the future.
As I said, hedging isn't definitive. Town aren't always confident either. But scum are more likely to since it gives them outs.
"Also compared to your post which has more quality content sure, but your post was more of just a 1 person iso. "
This makes no sense to me. Can you restate?
Common sense would dictate no.
Are you seriously asking me this?
Why do you have me as Scum when your description seems to imply you think I've been townie?
Also I dislike the shalowness of these. Where's Revolution Az that caught basically the whole scumteam in RVS?
Again with the snark.
C'mon now. You're smarter than that. You know that's not what I'm asking you for. Like, you vote Dawning in 158 while asking him a few questions... And that vote is the only indication that you're scumreading him. Your tone says nothing to it, you certainly never explicitly say it.Then, your next vote is 228 on LnGrrR.
At this point, basically the same story. You have a couple questions to him in the spoiler post, but aside from that, nothing.
Do you understand?
Fine. It's only important if you're scum anyway.
Bull*****. You literally say at the end of the post that you now have a scumtell whhen you didn't before. That means you think he's scum.
Do not try to walk this back.
Scum naturally tend to overthink arguments. They need to figure out what town looks like arguing, what counterarguments might pop up (and the responses to those), and, most importantly, not die.
Dawn's arguments on me achieve none of those goals.
Still here, plus a law firm and two kids. I spend as much time thinking about my reads as before, but much less prettying them up for other people to look at and understand, at least at this point in the game.
Iso was going to land in my null pile, but since i had only a 3 people in scum, I bumped him down. More because his behavior is a question mark for me, than because I have strong feelings about him. Under 30 post Iso is a creature I'm not used to encountering, but I don't have either a pro-town or pro-scum exclusive explanation for it.
Townies derail scum wagons all the time. What I care about is how you looked, while doing it. Plus, my reads are subject to change pretty regularly, so I don't try to force myself into an all-consistent scum-list world view. Its too likely to twist my arm into manufactured inaccuracy. If I can aim for a 50% hit rate on scum with my first list, that's plenty good.
There it is. Keep stepping up to the plate, buddy.
Heh.
It plays a role. Do you have an issue with that? Think your town/scum tone is indistinguishable?
Yes! Any other questions?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!