How does putting limits on what behavior is and isn't acceptable help mafia control the game more so than allowing them to freely betray? Which gives mafia more room to maneuver? Especially Night 1.
i think what youre missing is people have to be accountable for the choices they make.
just making a blanket assumption that scum will betray and town will ally seems unreliable to say the least
im way more interested in the why
feel like im channeling ace attorney right now
Sure, but its about expectations. There are certain mindsets that people identify with scumminess, right? And sometimes, town makes scummy comments. That doesnt mean you throw out your idea/evaluation of what is/isn't scummy. My proposal is that betrayal is viewed as inherently scummy, and those who do so have to justify it. Lynch All Liars doesn't always apply, but it does more times than not.
the whole process on this from lngrrr just does not come from a solving perspective.
hes giving people a map to getting townread by him, and just trying to control what people do. the choice to betray or ally i think will end up being a really important tool for figuring people out in this game, especially later on when we have multiple nights of results and some flips to work with. and hes just trying to head that off now.
Ohhhh @DawningBlueSky why did you list yourself as a likely scum partner for someone? What does that even mean. FOS: engaged
hi i did that earlier with joeterry
what up?
Really? Huh. Still think it's scummy in this case.
Also I like where your head is at right now. I feel like we had the same reaction to the KJ wall. And I kind of like your Iso take even if I know you have forced that read before (see JPA2). I think I kind of buy it since they are among the players he knows better and has history with but it's still a red flag.
I like voting LnGrrrR, but what about DawningBlue makes you think it's playstyle differences and not scum?
@Phoenix: I really don't see how you could think, I should think Tom is more likely scum than LW. All of my suspicion on Tom is tone and conjecture. It falls apart if LW is not scum. LW on the other hand straight up trip major scum alarms for me.
wtf why do you look like scum with me
i saw this post and, like, i would say thats solidly a tell that we're w/w. its all but exactly what i was doing with you/blues in otg. and lngrr/jey in low fantasy. and even shadow/silver in barebones.
its just the best way to distance from a buddy without actually pushing them. it lets you back off them if you can lynch the townie involved first and if your buddy gets lynched first it lets you keep pushing the townie
its good *****
as for dawning, its just a feeling. ive been wagoned for playstyle reasons enough times to know what it looks like. and the way lngrrr jumped on makes me think thats just a mislynch wagon scum wants to hop on
1. Whole point of a pocket is not realizing they're doing it lol.
2.Im assuming you mean natural reflex but if said person does that regardless of alignment then it wouldn't be strange to think someone is scum while doing It?
3.Not always but hesitation and lack of conviction can be signs of scummy behavior
I don't understand at all how both Wisp and DawningBlue both see Terry asking people not to hijack questions as a personal attack. That's normal mafia operating procedure. People ask specific people questions. Others taking them usually means that someone is trying to protect that person or push a narrative. It's mostly a scum+ play.
Though I agree the reaction in that case doesn't make a ton of sense as it was clearly a joke post (hence the gif).
@lnGrrrR how on earth is that a town slip? I'm so confused. Also I said scum is more likely to call something a town slip because town won't know if it's information scum "shouldn't" know. Scum has more information so they can identify slips. Town generally can't pick out a slip due to limited information.
I tend to see the latter that when people answer another's question it's usually town motivated. Plus to assume no one one else would answer another's question is kind of naive thinking in a sense haha. Question does that mean you scum read phoenix due to the town slip thing he mentioned?
Ohhhh @DawningBlueSky why did you list yourself as a likely scum partner for someone? What does that even mean. FOS: engaged
I was asked for who Last's team will be if he was scum. I think it's obvious that his bud will be me, with the way I've been 'whiteknighting' aka defending him. it's a logical conclusion anyone will come to. what's the point of saying it would be anyone other than me? unless that was a trap question. now who was it who asked me that again..?
This feels more like scum talk than anything. Mainly what I am worried about is the wifom from this post cause now I'm prob gonna turn towards you if last flips scum.
Also answering a question directed at someone else normally tends to be scummy because your leading or helping said player answer a question. Now if u answer the question after the intended person does I don't particular see anything wrong with that.
*His progression on various people is weird or nonexistant.
*The way he discusses his scumtells in terms of where they are on the list vs. how scummy he actually views them is scummy.
*Consistant hedging (not super great tell, but could be fencesitting so I'm noting it)
*Quite a bit of fluff. I found myself skipping a lot of posts for being completely useless or just answering basic questions and whatnot.
So, I think in the macro perspective, Osie is scum. Vote Osie
So yea, red things bad. Bold things good. Italic things either. strikethroughs irrelevent.
And now, I'm taking a break.
Okay this is a great post. I disagree with the macro conclusion but I follow the micro ones. I have less of an issue than you do with proclaiming scum reads without reasoning, it's something I do and don't view it as scummy. I'll agree the LnGrrrR one doesn't look good at all to me the way you highlight the jump from tone to content, but with Wisp and you it bothers me less. You could turn around and scum read me for largely the same thing. I don't see the amount of fluff as a scum tell. To my knowledge Osie is just a very active player who enjoys the social side of mafia. I'm not going to try to read into alignment based on that part. Hedging doesn't bother me this early because despite being almost 600 pages in it's early. Things are going to change drastically and multiple people have single digit post counts still.
The other point I like from your case is the pattern of viewing scum reads in the context of a list. That doesn't feel like a naturally town thing to do. I don't think it outweighs the positives in Osie (I generally have liked their targets).
That said that feels very much like a town post from you and alleviates a lot of my concerns on you. Also one DawningBlueSky doesn't look great coming out of that post and including themselves in a hypothetical scum team is just the weirdest thing I've ever seen.
Vote: DawningBlueSky
Still have my eye on LnGrrrR
Uhhm didn't Tom do this also, and azreal just did some BS like this also, so where do we draw the line?? That said her tone is a little forceful, as well as how fast her tree grew... So I'm keep looking around
... what even, whats with the jokes, beating a dead horse? tell me why should i take this as a joke and not at face value?
What's wrong with taking it at face value?
Terry- What a boring, unproductive question. Don't you appreciate a little mystery in your life? I know the scum do. Which is why I find this line of play so appealing, you know.
ITT: I say that betrayal should be looked at as scummy by default, and players who do so should have to defend themselves. Then Tkm says it might be a good choice in later Days when we have more info to counter my statement... *smh*
Vote me then Tom. I am tired of people trying to make it seem like betrayal is totally cool, and I won't be changing my tune, so vote or stop harping on it.
Ohhhh @DawningBlueSky why did you list yourself as a likely scum partner for someone? What does that even mean. FOS: engaged
I was asked for who Last's team will be if he was scum. I think it's obvious that his bud will be me, with the way I've been 'whiteknighting' aka defending him. it's a logical conclusion anyone will come to. what's the point of saying it would be anyone other than me? unless that was a trap question. now who was it who asked me that again..?
This feels more like scum talk than anything. Mainly what I am worried about is the wifom from this post cause now I'm prob gonna turn towards you if last flips scum.
Also answering a question directed at someone else normally tends to be scummy because your leading or helping said player answer a question. Now if u answer the question after the intended person does I don't particular see anything wrong with that.
***** if I flip scum even I will be surprised... lol
@Killjoy, you sure you arent just voting Osi because you did all the work to ISO him? You think others are scummier, right? If so why are you voting him? Why isolate Orb instead of any other player, like DBS or Whisper?
That whole exchange between Osieorb and Dawning gives me the creeps...
"I'd bus you ;)"
"No, I'm too good to bus ;)"
"Oh...well you look easier to bus that our other buddy ;)"
"No really, we're just bad town but as scum we are definitely great!"
Vote Dawning
Why do you think you're hard to bus? Who's underestimating you?
lol ok. should I claim? u will never want me lynched for sure <3
if I was scum it would be hard to bus me since I will enter this game with an informed mindset and, given how well I've handled things so far, it would be difficult to even pin a blame on me in the first place. now compare that with how I entered the game and tell me, is this rly the best I can do if I had an informed mindset? I can assure u, it will be hard to bus me if I was scum. I'd say everyone is underestimating my scumgame, thats what.
since we're starrrrting to get into the Tunnel of Dawn, pls question me. and remember, u go under my train u go under my knife. I won't let anyone vote me without a good reason, and by good reason I mean a reason I cannot refute.
or, if town wants, I'll just claim so we can do smthing more productive with our time.
If you claimed this early i would suspect you, because you have few votes and a whole 2 weeks to defend yourself. It would not be necessary to claim, i also quite concerned on how claiming will keep you from being lynched. Your role can prob be either alignment, that is to say unless mafia were given fake claims then that mean scum have scummy flavor.
This also feels more like wine than anything else, because your assuming we are suppose to expect the norm from every palyer.
Vote Dawn
What makes you so special? I feel like your being to cocky also don't like how you ignored my question about ahving +3 bp.
ok I'll be serious. yes I have more than 3 BP. it's logical to have more than 3 in case of a betrayal. I reallly don't mind claiming this early so ppl can focus on better things. my role isn't much anyways~ but hmm.. it looks like ur just making up some reason to vote me. got a new fluffing tactic for this site? that's my only explanation for this...
don't forget that locked lynches speed up the 2 weeks?? not sure how the rules are in that sense.
How do you go from "My claim would save me" to "my role isn't much anyways"? Because it's looks like you just wanted to strong arm me off of you. Walk me through your thought process.
@Killjoy: Do you have recent scum and town games you can link me to?
@Az, @Axel: Let's mindmeld. Tell me where you're at and why. I think you two have a good chance of being town and I feel like you're two of the stronger analysts in the game - so let's figure this out.
It is too early for mind-melding. I don't have particularly strong feelings about anyone yet except for Phoenix-Fire being Town. I also am currently feeling Shin is very likely Town. People who haven't said/done anything that particularly rubbed me the wrong way yet (which is net positive) include DV, Tom, Terry, Grapefruit. People who have include DBS, LW, Killjoy. Az has not done anything to make me feel like he might be Town this game, and that's negative for him, so it's interesting to me you say this. What did he do that makes you think he's Town?
I might feel better about you if you would explain (1) what about my first post caused you to scream "Scum no brakes!" and then (2) what made you reconsider later. Given you explained neither of these things at the time.
I was almost going to give DBS some credit for this post:
lol ok. should I claim? u will never want me lynched for sure <3
if I was scum it would be hard to bus me since I will enter this game with an informed mindset and, given how well I've handled things so far, it would be difficult to even pin a blame on me in the first place. now compare that with how I entered the game and tell me, is this rly the best I can do if I had an informed mindset? I can assure u, it will be hard to bus me if I was scum. I'd say everyone is underestimating my scumgame, thats what.
since we're starrrrting to get into the Tunnel of Dawn, pls question me. and remember, u go under my train u go under my knife. I won't let anyone vote me without a good reason, and by good reason I mean a reason I cannot refute.
or, if town wants, I'll just claim so we can do smthing more productive with our time.
Mainly because of the "you will never want to lynch me if I claim" part - which implies a power role, and which would be at least somewhat gutsy for a scum to put out there relatively early like this, and also when not under a lot of pressure.
ok I'll be serious. yes I have more than 3 BP. it's logical to have more than 3 in case of a betrayal. I reallly don't mind claiming this early so ppl can focus on better things. my role isn't much anyways~ but hmm.. it looks like ur just making up some reason to vote me. got a new fluffing tactic for this site? that's my only explanation for this...
don't forget that locked lynches speed up the 2 weeks?? not sure how the rules are in that sense.
Which is...not consistent with that. What it is consistent with is DBS looking like he's just randomly making stuff up as he goes along.
I did not read Killjoy's enormous wall of text because I do not have 4 hours of my life to spare right now. But I'm pretty sure I'm not ever going to vote him before I do. It was at the least a lot of work. I'm currently finding Osi18 very hard to read. I don't even mean "get a read on," I mean "it is physically hard for me to read his posts."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
How do you go from "My claim would save me" to "my role isn't much anyways"? Because it's looks like you just wanted to strong arm me off of you. Walk me through your thought process.
@Killjoy: Do you have recent scum and town games you can link me to?
Man, I got totally sarnath'd by this.
Phoenix is like totally Town people.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Shinichi making a post, immediately making a second one contradicting it, then making a third trying to clean it up. Never change. Also I agree, but in this case they answered before the target had answered. Hence my being weirded out at the personal attack interpretation.
@Wisp I'm not saying that you are scum. Neither did Shinichi as far as I can tell. So why does pressure on DwaningBlue=pressure on you?
Also tom did it in very different context. So did Az. DawningBlue was asked a question about partners that wasn't implicating them and accused themselves rather than trying to solve. Don't try to tell me that is the same thing as a regular scum claim like Az made.
@LnGrrrR immediately voted you for that take. And will happily vote you again. Don't act like no one called you out for saying betray is scummy before information came to light. Also information has largely only come to light because of you. So your fishing expedition that I called out on page one has borne fruit.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Shinichi making a post, immediately making a second one contradicting it, then making a third trying to clean it up. Never change. Also I agree, but in this case they answered before the target had answered. Hence my being weirded out at the personal attack interpretation.
@Wisp I'm not saying that you are scum. Neither did Shinichi as far as I can tell. So why does pressure on DwaningBlue=pressure on you?
Also tom did it in very different context. So did Az. DawningBlue was asked a question about partners that wasn't implicating them and accused themselves rather than trying to solve. Don't try to tell me that is the same thing as a regular scum claim like Az made.
@LnGrrrR immediately voted you for that take. And will happily vote you again. Don't act like no one called you out for saying betray is scummy before information came to light. Also information has largely only come to light because of you. So your fishing expedition that I called out on page one has borne fruit.
did i say i felt pressured from it? or come off that way? if i did it was not my attention, i was doing a little bit of devils advocating by stating other people have stated scum hypotheticals and claimed to be scummy for no reason. aka Tom and Azreal... unless other things like tones justify these votes. it still feels unnatural how some of these trains grow in like rapid succession. ***** if you claim to be scum ur playing a game doesnt help us solve the game. but yes tonal wise, and underlining reason for the posts makes very little sense to me.
In order to maintain sanity, I must manage a single passage per post. Sincerest apologies for spam and shortness, but I cannot continue to suffer otherwise. If this warrants my removal, it will be disheartening but accepted.
If Terry flips scum there is a pretty decent probability that Azreal is scum.
Why?
Why not assume that there is something to punish some betrayals? I'd be heavily surprised if there isn't at least one role that interacts with betrayals on some level. Maybe its too swingy to straight up punish though.
Hmm uncertain then.
@Axel Also.
I've seen Terry time and time again bus as scum. This is the only mode he seems to know as scum and he draws huge red flags when he does this sort of behavior to me. That being said he seems more stuck in his ways a lot of time when he is scum and his flow on Azreal may be more town than scum. I've been annoyed that he is ignoring his wagon for the moment and hope he maybe addresses it. He also is sort of bussing Tom for no good reason though so maybe Tom and him are scum.
@Killjoy
Why stop me from my intended goal of gaining points?
The statements feel incongruous to the conversation at hand. The first makes conjectures from thin air with seemingly secret precedent, and in addition, backs away from the though as uncertain. The second plays both sides without a clear stance.
The questions feel immoral. Why pose the first one as a personal goal and not a team goal? Why pose the second not directly to LastWhisper?
In order to maintain sanity, I must manage a single passage per post. Sincerest apologies for spam and shortness, but I cannot continue to suffer otherwise. If this warrants my removal, it will be disheartening but accepted.
If Terry flips scum there is a pretty decent probability that Azreal is scum.
Why?
Why not assume that there is something to punish some betrayals? I'd be heavily surprised if there isn't at least one role that interacts with betrayals on some level. Maybe its too swingy to straight up punish though.
Hmm uncertain then.
@Axel Also.
I've seen Terry time and time again bus as scum. This is the only mode he seems to know as scum and he draws huge red flags when he does this sort of behavior to me. That being said he seems more stuck in his ways a lot of time when he is scum and his flow on Azreal may be more town than scum. I've been annoyed that he is ignoring his wagon for the moment and hope he maybe addresses it. He also is sort of bussing Tom for no good reason though so maybe Tom and him are scum.
@Killjoy
Why stop me from my intended goal of gaining points?
The statements feel incongruous to the conversation at hand. The first makes conjectures from thin air with seemingly secret precedent, and in addition, backs away from the though as uncertain. The second plays both sides without a clear stance.
The questions feel immoral. Why pose the first one as a personal goal and not a team goal? Why pose the second not directly to LastWhisper?
OF COURSE THERE MAY BE TIMES WHEN SOMEONE BETRAYS AND IS TOWN. THERE ARE ALSO TIMES WHERE TOWNIES LIE TO GAMBIT. THAT DOESN'T MEAN EITHEROF THISE THINGS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED DE FACTO TOWN BEHAVIOR.
GF, how has information "come to light" because of me? Shin mentioned the 3 BP thing unbidden. I mentioned I had 4. Then Osi claimed, and then DBS.. kinda claimed.
Which of these do you blame on me?
Feel free to vote me. The sword of Damocles you think you're holding is merely Nerf.
@Phoenix: I really don't see how you could think, I should think Tom is more likely scum than LW. All of my suspicion on Tom is tone and conjecture. It falls apart if LW is not scum. LW on the other hand straight up trip major scum alarms for me.
wtf why do you look like scum with me
I don't get this. What are you asking? I thought you looked like scum with LW. Phoenix, thinks I should be more confident that you are scum than I am that LW is scum. I think that's preposterous. My reads on LW are based on his play. My reads on you were based on tone and conjecture. Therefore, my reads on LW > than my reads on you.
Okay, seriously that's not what I'm saying. Between you saying "Last whisper and Tom are scummy" and you voting for last whisper, Tom was the only person to post. So if you were going to vote either one of them, it would make sense to have voted Tom or not at all.
Your follow up about just posting as you caught up I could maybe buy as you holding your vote until you made it through everything and were current, but that's not really what it looked like.
This was my prior coup of Terry. A review and the coup was imagined. Alliance rekindled.
How do you go from "My claim would save me" to "my role isn't much anyways"? Because it's looks like you just wanted to strong arm me off of you. Walk me through your thought process.
strongarm? maybe. I want to use u and ur argument for my benefit. forcing reactions is where I work best. my thought process is that simple, and is quite evident throughout the game if u wanna see my isolation.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Also one DawningBlueSky doesn't look great coming out of that post and including themselves in a hypothetical scum team is just the weirdest thing I've ever seen.
This is a good point. I went along with her hypothetical because I didn't think it was that big a deal, but it is abnormal in or out of my personal mafia experience.
Killjoy's read on me is questionable. Finding tells on both sides is a positive for him, but it's not clear if the read as a whole was actually organic or was an overwrought production.
fyi someone asked me about my non-existent pov on who would be scumbuddies with Last. how can I put up a scumteam for Last if I hadn't scumread him in the first place? it's totally hypothetical and a forced answer out of me to begin with. I came out of it looking so bad yeah right~
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@whoever's on my train
is the basis of voting me cuz of putting myself on a potential team with Last? now who was it who asked me such an asspull question in the first place? oh right, it was Iso. I'm curious how Grapes jumped in on that bit, could've been an organized attack.
ok, that was easy
Vote: Iso
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
]ok. I don't see Last as scum so I haven't thought about a potential team. if u insist to get an answer from my non-existent pov, it's likely to feel forced. not my problem.
possible scumbuds with Last would be in.. idk, Shinichi/Osie/Killjoy. says he's not sure about Shinichi, Osie backed off after a bit of whiteknighting, probably had scum theatre with Killjoy. I recall DV/Iso/Azrael having interacted with Last, but nothing significant to memory.
I think this quote is especially relevant given KJ's big post. Vote DBS with me peeps. Bolding mine.
mind telling me why u ignored my answer to u, when u insisted for it?
I was asked for who Last's team will be if he was scum. I think it's obvious that his bud will be me, with the way I've been 'whiteknighting' aka defending him. it's a logical conclusion anyone will come to. what's the point of saying it would be anyone other than me? unless that was a trap question. now who was it who asked me that again..?
But you know you're not scum so from your POV you could never be his partner even if you've been defending him. So including yourself in a team makes no sense. It doesn't help anyone solve the game if you start discussing theories you know aren't true as if they could be. And I believe it was Iso who asked you that.
Also I didn't know who you were till wisp called you Phraze. Now I know why your play feels familiar.
@Wisp yes it matters when people answer posts for others. No it didn't in that case.
I alrdy answered prior that I don't scumread Last, so I don't have any possible teams on him atm. since I was asked to reply to the IF, I gave the general pov. and tbf I would associate myself with Last if he was scum from my pov it's that simple, so I can't scumread Last x935
my cover is blown. rip. lol
But that doesn't help anyone at all. We can all have the general POV, only you can tell us what you see. So refusing to give that and giving conentional wisdom feels like trying to avoid the question. Doesn't matter that you don't scum read him, you can still see potential buddy interactions.
ok. I don't see Last as scum so I haven't thought about a potential team. if u insist to get an answer from my non-existent pov, it's likely to feel forced. not my problem.
possible scumbuds with Last would be in.. idk, Shinichi/Osie/Killjoy. says he's not sure about Shinichi, Osie backed off after a bit of whiteknighting, probably had scum theatre with Killjoy. I recall DV/Iso/Azrael having interacted with Last, but nothing significant to memory.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
I'm thinking Iso. Iso and Azrael are 2 ppl I feel are under radar, if not everyone else's radar at least mine. given this momentum on my train, and based off Iso's distant push on me, I'd say Iso is a good lead. maybe Grapefruit, since he essentially budged into Iso's scumhunting process on me. either Iso is triggering things from afar, or Grapefruit is being opportunistic scum. also, Grapefruit asking others to jump onto my train while ignoring my answer to him just reeks.
my PoE for Today would be: Iso/Grapefruit/Killjoy
keeping an eye out for: LnG/DV/Azrael/Tom
- Iso for being magically sided when questioning me??
- Grapefruit for asking others to jump on me without proper questioning, or ignoring my explanations
- Killjoy for that BP talk, and I noticed he talked to DV that my associating both of them was bad. some kind of buddying up?
- dunno about LnG, but he's a townlean due to that early BP claim - which I don't think scum would dare to try early on
- not enough info from Azrael
- DV made that pseudo claim, but there's better options atm
- LnG also not enough info
- Tom has a playstyle I'll need to see more of, but he's more of a townlean
other inactives have less than enough info, so I'll keep an eye on them too. Megiddo and Jenna.
elaborate explanation since I'm trying to cut down the spamming~
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Ok good, you're here last whisper. Let's have a chat. Who's scum? DO you still think I'm scum?
I didnt think u were scum anymore after we had our little quarrel.
Im not a fan of lists, and I cant say much about kill joy since I havent looked a lot into him, but if there are 3 mafia, then 1 of them is probably between Grr/Iso and Idk how I feel about Phoenix or Azreal right now.
I'm also not sure about Shinichi, but townlean. feels like he voted me to provoke a reaction, especially given how I responded to a vote on me. will keep an eye on him for now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Ok good, you're here last whisper. Let's have a chat. Who's scum? DO you still think I'm scum?
I didnt think u were scum anymore after we had our little quarrel.
Im not a fan of lists, and I cant say much about kill joy since I havent looked a lot into him, but if there are 3 mafia, then 1 of them is probably between Grr/Iso and Idk how I feel about Phoenix or Azreal right now.
I'm also not sure about Shinichi, but townlean. feels like he voted me to provoke a reaction, especially given how I responded to a vote on me. will keep an eye on him for now.
Grape and Shin are harder for me to evaluate, but Grape tends to be over the top aggressive whens hes scum, and shin, I still have no idea how to read him, so I need to watch his tone and how he acts..
Ok good, you're here last whisper. Let's have a chat. Who's scum? DO you still think I'm scum?
I didnt think u were scum anymore after we had our little quarrel.
Im not a fan of lists, and I cant say much about kill joy since I havent looked a lot into him, but if there are 3 mafia, then 1 of them is probably between Grr/Iso and Idk how I feel about Phoenix or Azreal right now.
Honestly Grr and Iso could both be mafia...
Grr is lng btw, I dont know what people usually call him/her
Ok good, you're here last whisper. Let's have a chat. Who's scum? DO you still think I'm scum?
I didnt think u were scum anymore after we had our little quarrel.
Im not a fan of lists, and I cant say much about kill joy since I havent looked a lot into him, but if there are 3 mafia, then 1 of them is probably between Grr/Iso and Idk how I feel about Phoenix or Azreal right now.
When did I stop being scum to you? Tell me why you think there are 3 scum?
I'm thinking Iso. Iso and Azrael are 2 ppl I feel are under radar, if not everyone else's radar at least mine. given this momentum on my train, and based off Iso's distant push on me, I'd say Iso is a good lead. maybe Grapefruit, since he essentially budged into Iso's scumhunting process on me. either Iso is triggering things from afar, or Grapefruit is being opportunistic scum. also, Grapefruit asking others to jump onto my train while ignoring my answer to him just reeks.
my PoE for Today would be: Iso/Grapefruit/Killjoy
keeping an eye out for: LnG/DV/Azrael/Tom
- Iso for being magically sided when questioning me??
- Grapefruit for asking others to jump on me without proper questioning, or ignoring my explanations
- Killjoy for that BP talk, and I noticed he talked to DV that my associating both of them was bad. some kind of buddying up?
- dunno about LnG, but he's a townlean due to that early BP claim - which I don't think scum would dare to try early on
- not enough info from Azrael
- DV made that pseudo claim, but there's better options atm
- LnG also not enough info
- Tom has a playstyle I'll need to see more of, but he's more of a townlean
other inactives have less than enough info, so I'll keep an eye on them too. Megiddo and Jenna.
elaborate explanation since I'm trying to cut down the spamming~
Why do you think so many people are voting you right now?
hes giving people a map to getting townread by him, and just trying to control what people do. the choice to betray or ally i think will end up being a really important tool for figuring people out in this game, especially later on when we have multiple nights of results and some flips to work with. and hes just trying to head that off now.
more votes here please
i saw this post and, like, i would say thats solidly a tell that we're w/w. its all but exactly what i was doing with you/blues in otg. and lngrr/jey in low fantasy. and even shadow/silver in barebones.
its just the best way to distance from a buddy without actually pushing them. it lets you back off them if you can lynch the townie involved first and if your buddy gets lynched first it lets you keep pushing the townie
its good *****
as for dawning, its just a feeling. ive been wagoned for playstyle reasons enough times to know what it looks like. and the way lngrrr jumped on makes me think thats just a mislynch wagon scum wants to hop on
2.Im assuming you mean natural reflex but if said person does that regardless of alignment then it wouldn't be strange to think someone is scum while doing It?
3.Not always but hesitation and lack of conviction can be signs of scummy behavior
I tend to see the latter that when people answer another's question it's usually town motivated. Plus to assume no one one else would answer another's question is kind of naive thinking in a sense haha. Question does that mean you scum read phoenix due to the town slip thing he mentioned?
This feels more like scum talk than anything. Mainly what I am worried about is the wifom from this post cause now I'm prob gonna turn towards you if last flips scum.
Also answering a question directed at someone else normally tends to be scummy because your leading or helping said player answer a question. Now if u answer the question after the intended person does I don't particular see anything wrong with that.
Answering a question before the intended person can is scummy.
What's wrong with taking it at face value?
Terry- What a boring, unproductive question. Don't you appreciate a little mystery in your life? I know the scum do. Which is why I find this line of play so appealing, you know.
Vote me then Tom. I am tired of people trying to make it seem like betrayal is totally cool, and I won't be changing my tune, so vote or stop harping on it.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
***** if I flip scum even I will be surprised... lol
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I have always been more of a 10% guy, personally.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
@Killjoy: Do you have recent scum and town games you can link me to?
It is too early for mind-melding. I don't have particularly strong feelings about anyone yet except for Phoenix-Fire being Town. I also am currently feeling Shin is very likely Town. People who haven't said/done anything that particularly rubbed me the wrong way yet (which is net positive) include DV, Tom, Terry, Grapefruit. People who have include DBS, LW, Killjoy. Az has not done anything to make me feel like he might be Town this game, and that's negative for him, so it's interesting to me you say this. What did he do that makes you think he's Town?
I might feel better about you if you would explain (1) what about my first post caused you to scream "Scum no brakes!" and then (2) what made you reconsider later. Given you explained neither of these things at the time.
I was almost going to give DBS some credit for this post:
Mainly because of the "you will never want to lynch me if I claim" part - which implies a power role, and which would be at least somewhat gutsy for a scum to put out there relatively early like this, and also when not under a lot of pressure.
But then he almost immediately said this:
Which is...not consistent with that. What it is consistent with is DBS looking like he's just randomly making stuff up as he goes along.
I did not read Killjoy's enormous wall of text because I do not have 4 hours of my life to spare right now. But I'm pretty sure I'm not ever going to vote him before I do. It was at the least a lot of work. I'm currently finding Osi18 very hard to read. I don't even mean "get a read on," I mean "it is physically hard for me to read his posts."
Man, I got totally sarnath'd by this.
Phoenix is like totally Town people.
@Wisp I'm not saying that you are scum. Neither did Shinichi as far as I can tell. So why does pressure on DwaningBlue=pressure on you?
Also tom did it in very different context. So did Az. DawningBlue was asked a question about partners that wasn't implicating them and accused themselves rather than trying to solve. Don't try to tell me that is the same thing as a regular scum claim like Az made.
@LnGrrrR immediately voted you for that take. And will happily vote you again. Don't act like no one called you out for saying betray is scummy before information came to light. Also information has largely only come to light because of you. So your fishing expedition that I called out on page one has borne fruit.
The statements feel incongruous to the conversation at hand. The first makes conjectures from thin air with seemingly secret precedent, and in addition, backs away from the though as uncertain. The second plays both sides without a clear stance.
The questions feel immoral. Why pose the first one as a personal goal and not a team goal? Why pose the second not directly to LastWhisper?
OF COURSE THERE MAY BE TIMES WHEN SOMEONE BETRAYS AND IS TOWN. THERE ARE ALSO TIMES WHERE TOWNIES LIE TO GAMBIT. THAT DOESN'T MEAN EITHEROF THISE THINGS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED DE FACTO TOWN BEHAVIOR.
GF, how has information "come to light" because of me? Shin mentioned the 3 BP thing unbidden. I mentioned I had 4. Then Osi claimed, and then DBS.. kinda claimed.
Which of these do you blame on me?
Feel free to vote me. The sword of Damocles you think you're holding is merely Nerf.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Be grateful, always."
dawningbluesky (5): Phoenix-Fire, Shinichi, Grapefruit21, LnGrrrR, osieorb18
Lastwhisper (3): Azrael, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Iso
osieorb18 (2): BluesEclipse, Killjoy
tomsloger (1): Axelrod
D_V (2): Jenna Tolaria, dawningbluesky
Phoenix-Fire (1): Lastwhisper
Killjoy (1): D_V
LnGrrrR (1): tomsloger
Not Voting (1): Megiddo
With 17 alive, it’s 9 to lynch. The deadline is Tuesday, November 7th at 11.59 pm EST.
Be grateful, always."
@whoever's on my train
is the basis of voting me cuz of putting myself on a potential team with Last? now who was it who asked me such an asspull question in the first place? oh right, it was Iso. I'm curious how Grapes jumped in on that bit, could've been an organized attack.
ok, that was easy
Vote: Iso
Be grateful, always."
vvvvvv
Be grateful, always."
What do you mean with the use of the word "coup" here?
MAL might be a clearer acronym, since MS often refers to MafiaScum.
I'm thinking Iso. Iso and Azrael are 2 ppl I feel are under radar, if not everyone else's radar at least mine. given this momentum on my train, and based off Iso's distant push on me, I'd say Iso is a good lead. maybe Grapefruit, since he essentially budged into Iso's scumhunting process on me. either Iso is triggering things from afar, or Grapefruit is being opportunistic scum. also, Grapefruit asking others to jump onto my train while ignoring my answer to him just reeks.
my PoE for Today would be: Iso/Grapefruit/Killjoy
keeping an eye out for: LnG/DV/Azrael/Tom
- Iso for being magically sided when questioning me??
- Grapefruit for asking others to jump on me without proper questioning, or ignoring my explanations
- Killjoy for that BP talk, and I noticed he talked to DV that my associating both of them was bad. some kind of buddying up?
- dunno about LnG, but he's a townlean due to that early BP claim - which I don't think scum would dare to try early on
- not enough info from Azrael
- DV made that pseudo claim, but there's better options atm
- LnG also not enough info
- Tom has a playstyle I'll need to see more of, but he's more of a townlean
other inactives have less than enough info, so I'll keep an eye on them too. Megiddo and Jenna.
elaborate explanation since I'm trying to cut down the spamming~
Be grateful, always."
Im not a fan of lists, and I cant say much about kill joy since I havent looked a lot into him, but if there are 3 mafia, then 1 of them is probably between Grr/Iso and Idk how I feel about Phoenix or Azreal right now.
Be grateful, always."
Editing posts is NOT allowed here. Further violations of this rule may lead to modkills.
Also, remember that this is a game. Games are meant to be fun for everyone.
I'd prefer that this game stays that way.