My attempt to abridge the quotes may have misrepresented the message. The list provided was not even the list that he said he would make, but simply a list of what he will do.
You realize the first two posts talk about how I expect others to vote towards me, and the third is how I will vote towards them right?
I will be specifically okay with only my town reads betraying me for gain, BUT I will not be looking to actively betray anyone.
For example: if I get paired up with Stinkyjoe, I would pick ally, but I don't feel comfortable enough to be okay with him picking betray, and if he were to do so I would be actively pushing him.
My attempt to abridge the quotes may have misrepresented the message. The list provided was not even the list that he said he would make, but simply a list of what he will do.
A draft is in order.
A draft is in progress, I said this a few posts ago.
I'm not actively looking to betray, but that is not reflective of willingness to be betrayed.
@Azrael, Tom: Is D_V trying to pocket me or is he just happy to have found another town?
@Bushukan21: First off, I'm running out of citrus fruits. Secondly, you were (and still are) in the lower end of posts, though reasonably high on post quality:
Osie 60
RSJT 53
DBS 44
LW 41
Tom 40
D_V 39
Shin 30
LnGR 18
PF 17
Az 17
GF21 9
Axel 9
KJ 7
Jenna 5
Iso 5
BE 2
Meg 0
So you were afraid scum were going to come in a speed hammer me?
All four, apparently, even.
Gosh Darnit Osi, that question was not for you!
1. Is the labyrinth in your avatar supposed to be very easy or very difficult?
2. Do you think a second vote on a person at a time when the lynch threshold is 9 can realistically be called opportunistic?
3. Are you sarcastic in every game? Are you arrogant in every game?
4. I've seen dichotomies from both scum and town. Why do you think it's specifically scum behavior?
5. Did you mean to say IGMEOY, or is there a mysterious EGMEOY that we all don't know about? Elephants Gracefully Masticate Endless Oblong Yams.
6. Talk to me about Shinichi, please. What are your thoughts?
Sorry, I must have missed this:
1. It's from the show Westworld and I like it. That's it. If you want to get philosophical, solving the maze will set you free, but you may not like freedom. It's the sum of a man's life and is equally apt at keeping people out as it is at keeping people in. It's symbolic of a difficult physical and mental journey.
2. I call votes opportunistic if they do not provide logic or reasoning of their own instead of just tagging along with other votes. While my vote on LW may seem like that on the surface, I was already digging into posts prior to the vote and clarified my reasons shortly after. However, early day voting should be viewed as less opportunistic then it is later in the day because it's something that helps stimulate discussion by putting more weight onto wagons, but rarely affects the final outcome of the day.
3. I tend to be less abrasive as scum because as you can see it gets me in trouble and unnecessary attention. As town, I find it stimulating to the game.
4. I use dichotomies as scum to direct mislynches.
5. I meant IGMEOY
6. I'm still working out Shin, I tend to default read him as scum, so I want to watch him more and probably would not support a Day 1 Lynch of him.
re: #2
i dont think thats opportunism. sometimes you just see a person or two voting someone and think "hmmm yes i like that person getting votes lets encourage this"
like, yes if that thought comes from scum its opportunistic. its encouraging a wagon (or hopping on for credit).
but as town its just... applying pressure. seeing where wagons go. you dont always have original reasoning.
what im saying is theres lots of reasons to vote. mine tend to be some combination of pressure/vague feeling/reaction test/future data points/trolling.
Seriously this needs to stop, there is literally nothing wrong with this, stop trying to create superficial reasons for voting someone... This would seem more like a vote out of "i am angry you dont follow me rules" rather then "Your a scum" vote.
Calm down. It's a social game. Iso and Terry do have a point.
Shin works 7 and a half hour morning shifts, so when he gets home around 4pm est. He missed the blunt of the days posts so ya, he tends to always have to catch up. I on the other hand can check my phone as I work customer service and have time during and between my college classes to do so...
Umm, please explain how you know Shin's schedule?
They've played together before?
what were the questions? ok found it
1. That's not what I asked. I asked, "If LW were scum, who would his scumbuddies be?"
2. Do you see people voting anyone other than LW? Because I sure do, and in my experience, it detracts from an active wagon when there's another one that's even bigger.
3. Do you believe that scum can never be caught easily? Do you ever look at the momentum of the push accordingly?
You can ask questions of people without answering questions for other people. I'm not saying, "do nothing", I'm saying don't interfere with someone else's scumhunting process
1. if he was scum then... his team would be me and osieorb, maybe tom.
2. don't blame me if he flips town then. I played with Last before. give me some credit here.
3. I believe scum can be caught easily, same as they can't.
1. Okay. Tell me why.
2. That's not what I'm getting at - you're using that as a justification for townreading him, but as far as I can tell, that's an untrue premise on which to base a townread at present. Does that mean you're rescinding that observation and basing this strictly on meta, now?
3. Then...why your prior statement, which seems to contradict this stance? Also, you didn't answer my question about momentum.
Shin works 7 and a half hour morning shifts, so when he gets home around 4pm est. He missed the blunt of the days posts so ya, he tends to always have to catch up. I on the other hand can check my phone as I work customer service and have time during and between my college classes to do so...
Umm, please explain how you know Shin's schedule?
They've played together before?
Next time you answer a question I direct at someone else, ESPECIALLY Whisper, I will vote you.
Seriously this needs to stop, there is literally nothing wrong with this, stop trying to create superficial reasons for voting someone... This would seem more like a vote out of "i am angry you dont follow me rules" rather then "Your a scum" vote.
There is tons wrong with it and you should accept that you're throwing a wrench in the town's cogs when you do this.
@Az, @Axel: Let's mindmeld. Tell me where you're at and why. I think you two have a good chance of being town and I feel like you're two of the stronger analysts in the game - so let's figure this out.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
1. That's not what I asked. I asked, "If LW were scum, who would his scumbuddies be?"
2. Do you see people voting anyone other than LW? Because I sure do, and in my experience, it detracts from an active wagon when there's another one that's even bigger.
3. Do you believe that scum can never be caught easily? Do you ever look at the momentum of the push accordingly?
You can ask questions of people without answering questions for other people. I'm not saying, "do nothing", I'm saying don't interfere with someone else's scumhunting process
1. if he was scum then... his team would be me and osieorb, maybe tom.
2. don't blame me if he flips town then. I played with Last before. give me some credit here.
3. I believe scum can be caught easily, same as they can't.
1. Okay. Tell me why.
2. That's not what I'm getting at - you're using that as a justification for townreading him, but as far as I can tell, that's an untrue premise on which to base a townread at present. Does that mean you're rescinding that observation and basing this strictly on meta, now?
3. Then...why your prior statement, which seems to contradict this stance? Also, you didn't answer my question about momentum.
1. I'm defending Last. Osie is seeing me positively. I voted Tom only to retract later.
2. u could say it's based off meta. tho it's just a playstyle imo, not a track record. if I have no clue of someone's playstyle I will ask them about it, like I did with Osie. I've played with Last before so I base off that and don't see the point in asking him about how he plays now. not sure if I would call that meta.. ppl usually see meta as a track record or graph of 'scum cuz u do this or that' to incriminate someone, I use meta as a way to look into someone's pov, and why they do what they did. I highly suggest u to question Last about how he plays FIRST before labelling him as scummy cuz of this or that behavior, without knowledge of his playstyle. one step at a time. is this explanation good enough?
3. just cuz I look for alternatives doesn't mean I'm contradicting myself. I like to think out of the box. regarding momentum, hmmm... there's no real basis for the train on Last in the first place, and it picked up too fast for my liking - that is quite a momentum u wanna live for lol.
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1. I'm defending Last. Osie is seeing me positively. I voted Tom only to retract later.
Positively is a bit of a stretch; mixed would be more accurate. Although, I would be more than likely to have you in nulls if we were scumbuddies. This early, though, in this game? If I was scum with you and whisper, I'd probably be bussing you at the least, if not whisper as well.
1. I'm defending Last. Osie is seeing me positively. I voted Tom only to retract later.
Positively is a bit of a stretch; mixed would be more accurate. Although, I would be more than likely to have you in nulls if we were scumbuddies. This early, though, in this game? If I was scum with you and whisper, I'd probably be bussing you at the least, if not whisper as well.
haha ok. mixed is still far from negative. if I was scum tho, I sure won't be an ez bus. does this say anything? idk about Last but I'm sure his scumgame doesn't suck this bad either. talk about underestimating the newbs.
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1. I'm defending Last. Osie is seeing me positively. I voted Tom only to retract later.
Positively is a bit of a stretch; mixed would be more accurate. Although, I would be more than likely to have you in nulls if we were scumbuddies. This early, though, in this game? If I was scum with you and whisper, I'd probably be bussing you at the least, if not whisper as well.
haha ok. mixed is still far from negative. if I was scum tho, I sure won't be an ez bus. does this say anything? idk about Last but I'm sure his scumgame doesn't suck this bad either. talk about underestimating the newbs.
No offense, but Lastwhisper doesn't seem as easy of a bus...
I think you're just as mislynchable as I am, which inherently means you'd be at least as easily bussable.
That whole exchange between Osieorb and Dawning gives me the creeps...
"I'd bus you ;)"
"No, I'm too good to bus ;)"
"Oh...well you look easier to bus that our other buddy ;)"
"No really, we're just bad town but as scum we are definitely great!"
Vote Dawning
Why do you think you're hard to bus? Who's underestimating you?
@Az, @Axel: Let's mindmeld. Tell me where you're at and why. I think you two have a good chance of being town and I feel like you're two of the stronger analysts in the game - so let's figure this out.
I'm mostly wondering why LW isn't dead yet while my eyes glaze over as the walls of mostly inconclusive content scroll by. KJ probably needs to die. There's a bunch of people I haven't bothered to town-read yet. Taking it easy. Hoping inertia will do in LW so I don't have to do a PBPA quite yet. Also, I figure the more I lurk, the more town-cred I'll dissipate so the scum might not NK me n1.
That whole exchange between Osieorb and Dawning gives me the creeps...
"I'd bus you ;)"
"No, I'm too good to bus ;)"
"Oh...well you look easier to bus that our other buddy ;)"
"No really, we're just bad town but as scum we are definitely great!"
Vote Dawning
Why do you think you're hard to bus? Who's underestimating you?
lol ok. should I claim? u will never want me lynched for sure <3
if I was scum it would be hard to bus me since I will enter this game with an informed mindset and, given how well I've handled things so far, it would be difficult to even pin a blame on me in the first place. now compare that with how I entered the game and tell me, is this rly the best I can do if I had an informed mindset? I can assure u, it will be hard to bus me if I was scum. I'd say everyone is underestimating my scumgame, thats what.
since we're starrrrting to get into the Tunnel of Dawn, pls question me. and remember, u go under my train u go under my knife. I won't let anyone vote me without a good reason, and by good reason I mean a reason I cannot refute.
or, if town wants, I'll just claim so we can do smthing more productive with our time.
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@Dawning: What are you hoping to glean from people giving you self meta? I feel like if you actually cared about their meta, you'd ask for past games to go off of, so what's the purpose of asking?
I'm curious about how ppl play in general. could say its my meta. and no, I don't usually read past games, the feel of being a spectator vs a player makes a big difference for me. ppl might lie if they tell u directly about how they play, but that can be deduced as lie or fact over time DURING a game, rather than spectating a past game and use it against them in a current game. ppl tend to change playstyles over time too, and that might be mentioned when asking someone about their meta during a game.
to me, asking someone about their playstyle is the best way to get information.
Meta can be manipulated, the response can be manipulated so its best not to worry about meta, it highly unlikely you will catch a scummy person based solely on their meta.
1. I'm defending Last. Osie is seeing me positively. I voted Tom only to retract later.
Positively is a bit of a stretch; mixed would be more accurate. Although, I would be more than likely to have you in nulls if we were scumbuddies. This early, though, in this game? If I was scum with you and whisper, I'd probably be bussing you at the least, if not whisper as well.
haha ok. mixed is still far from negative. if I was scum tho, I sure won't be an ez bus. does this say anything? idk about Last but I'm sure his scumgame doesn't suck this bad either. talk about underestimating the newbs.
No offense, but Lastwhisper doesn't seem as easy of a bus...
I think you're just as mislynchable as I am, which inherently means you'd be at least as easily bussable.
bad choice of words. dude.
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Meta can be manipulated, the response can be manipulated so its best not to worry about meta, it highly unlikely you will catch a scummy person based solely on their meta.
the response is what I want more than the meta. either way works for me.
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I don't get this. What are you asking? I thought you looked like scum with LW. Phoenix, thinks I should be more confident that you are scum than I am that LW is scum. I think that's preposterous. My reads on LW are based on his play. My reads on you were based on tone and conjecture. Therefore, my reads on LW > than my reads on you.
Okay, seriously that's not what I'm saying. Between you saying "Last whisper and Tom are scummy" and you voting for last whisper, Tom was the only person to post. So if you were going to vote either one of them, it would make sense to have voted Tom or not at all.
Your follow up about just posting as you caught up I could maybe buy as you holding your vote until you made it through everything and were current, but that's not really what it looked like.
Well two things. One, I still don't get why you think I would vote the person I was saying looked to be bussing instead of the person they could potentially be bussing that I thought was independently scummy. We could just be two people voting the same scummy person. There is no world where voting Tom makes sense instead of voting LW. I'm sorry if you don't think my vote on LW made sense, but I have spent sufficient time explaining it.
What changed between "LW is scummy" to "vote LW" though?? Were you intentionally holding your vote? I'm not asking "Why didn't you vote Tom?" I'm saying "What about Tom's post made you vote LW?" You literally haven't explained this at all, you just keep pushing me back by saying that voting Tom wouldn't have made sense, and I don't care, that's not my point.
Let me put it in a way that makes it abundantly clear what I'm implying:
How is your vote on Last Whisper anything but an opportunistic jump because someone else started a wagon?
I've also explained this several times and am tired of beating a dead horse about it. I quoted Tom because he was starting an early day 1 train, which is healthy for the game state. There is value in that. He was starting it on someone I already felt like was being scummy, so I agreed and voted LW.
Because I agreed with him voting LW, does NOT mean that I will write Tom off as scum. It seemed a little bit suspicious because, as other people have also pointed out, he's been playing a bit sporadically, especially with his votes, which is why I speculated that he may be scum with LW and when LW swooped in and responded a defense to a comment directed directly at Tom, it made even more sense. Tom is an experienced mafia player, but I'm still not quite ready to put rookie mistakes like defending a scum buddy past LW's experience level.
Please go through this procedure with me and compare the reasoning of my vote on LW to tom's reasoning:
Yep, I'm on board especially because this feels like a Tom bus.
VOTE: Last Whisper
it seems your #53 has more of a sarcastic tone, yet u stilled voted me? interesting vote RealstinkyJoe and i understand why azreal is voting me, but what about you?
You're OMGUS definitely makes me feel better about my vote on you, but let me explain this to everyone who is voting me.
In #51, Last Whisper's Response to Azrael's pressure/vote (which clearly LW couldn't tell if Azrael was serious or not):
my last words wont come for a while, if they even ever do... I dont expect this train will go far. I was always told i wasnt readable... tsk, time to throw in the towel
It starts off over defensive, and arrogant, but even within the same posts it's like LW realizes it and then tries to right the ship by adding in a sarcastic throw in the towel comment in the end. This one post just ran the whole gambit of scum emotions. It's a dead serious vote.
In post #55 I got a whiff of Tom's Scum-Confidence (that I witnessed first hand with him last game) and my comment:
Please tell me which player seems to be voting "opportunistically" and which player seems to have put constructive thought into the reasoning of their vote?
I don't know about you but I find this whole situation to conventiont for comfort, why would scum blantly bus his own buddy without atleast providing his own reasoning. I am more inclined to think this is town tom who saw something click from either last or what you said about last that caused him to change vote. The sporadic voting also aint a bad thing some people jump from vote to vote when they feel they're onto something. On a side note its clear he was ok forming a train, but as town I don't see anything bad with that.
So i'm guessing if you had to pick 1 then I would assume you think Last has more of a chance to be scum than tom?
Fwiw i wont follow any plans for the prisoners dilemmas that don't let me betray my scumreads and ally with my townreads
You too Tom!? This reads like scum tom.
Anyone that tries to control the game i believe are the scummy ones but thats just me, forcing a ultimative doesn't sound to townlike wouldnt you agree?
I usually get that feeling too, but I've seen town players control the game in a very good way as well.
Sure if they're being logical, not so much if they are just being paranoid lol.
That whole exchange between Osieorb and Dawning gives me the creeps...
"I'd bus you ;)"
"No, I'm too good to bus ;)"
"Oh...well you look easier to bus that our other buddy ;)"
"No really, we're just bad town but as scum we are definitely great!"
This isn't an rvs vote right, because if so this vote is quite over justified to be random. Also this vote screams scum, its one thing to vote to pressure someone but seems like you just want to get rid of said person for being unreadable plus hard to deal with in the late game.
Besides...
IMO Tom generally gets easier to deal with the longer the game goes on.
If betrayal will lead to your death just say it, but if you were to get betrayed while also still living im pretty sure that just make you scum so that statement is risky for you to make.
How can scum be confirmed in 1-2 posts? If anyone's role fishing here it seems to be you, I dont find a need to discuss roles this early into the game yet.
He...
didn't confirm scum and wasn't pushing for other people to reveal their roles.
My role can safely be betrayed a limited number of times without me getting too worried, I'll probably make a list of people I'm okay with betraying me should they get paired against me.
Was it necc to reveal this information? It quite beneficial for scum knowing this.
Now to this dick of a post lol, literally don't know why you had to reply with some fort of arrogance here but oh wells.
I've never played with tom so i wouldn't know that but either way its an odd vote.
I am implying its supicious to say you will die if you get betrayed, because if for some unforsaken reason said person lives they are probably scum which is why I don't like this.
Maybe your reading a different post but thats my opinion that i acquired from reading what said person posted.
I do feel the latter is the case because knowing what a person will choose beforehand benefits the opponent so if said person is scum it benefits them knowing this information.
Also i wasn't be obnoxious atleast I didnt mean too i was just saying if this is anything like the game I know quite a bit, for example the fact that everyone should have started with 3 bp. Though seeing as dawn claimed otherwise I am quite concerned at the authenticity of her post.
That whole exchange between Osieorb and Dawning gives me the creeps...
"I'd bus you ;)"
"No, I'm too good to bus ;)"
"Oh...well you look easier to bus that our other buddy ;)"
"No really, we're just bad town but as scum we are definitely great!"
Vote Dawning
Why do you think you're hard to bus? Who's underestimating you?
lol ok. should I claim? u will never want me lynched for sure <3
if I was scum it would be hard to bus me since I will enter this game with an informed mindset and, given how well I've handled things so far, it would be difficult to even pin a blame on me in the first place. now compare that with how I entered the game and tell me, is this rly the best I can do if I had an informed mindset? I can assure u, it will be hard to bus me if I was scum. I'd say everyone is underestimating my scumgame, thats what.
since we're starrrrting to get into the Tunnel of Dawn, pls question me. and remember, u go under my train u go under my knife. I won't let anyone vote me without a good reason, and by good reason I mean a reason I cannot refute.
or, if town wants, I'll just claim so we can do smthing more productive with our time.
Okay. You're someone who is easy to consider reading as scum, at least in this game. You also have towntells, but either side could be pushed forward into focus to make an argument for you as one or the other. Albeit, the only reason I wouldn't consider you for a day 1 lynch is that there's enough towntells there that I take pause. But that's not necessarily going to last.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@lngrrrR [If a townie hypothetically has an ability that relies on betraying someone, then they better use it in a townie way. If they are betraying AND have no evidence to back it up... yeah to me thats scummy.]
If a townie has an ability that requires them to betray aren't you hindering them by telling them they risk being scum read by using it?
@lngrrrR [If a townie hypothetically has an ability that relies on betraying someone, then they better use it in a townie way. If they are betraying AND have no evidence to back it up... yeah to me thats scummy.]
If a townie has an ability that requires them to betray aren't you hindering them by telling them they risk being scum read by using it?
You realize the first two posts talk about how I expect others to vote towards me, and the third is how I will vote towards them right?
I will be specifically okay with only my town reads betraying me for gain, BUT I will not be looking to actively betray anyone.
For example: if I get paired up with Stinkyjoe, I would pick ally, but I don't feel comfortable enough to be okay with him picking betray, and if he were to do so I would be actively pushing him.
If all goes according to LNG then i dont see a reason to be worried about betray unless your also willing to admit people will naturally click betray, which would mean that even town can betray.
I am implying its supicious to say you will die if you get betrayed, because if for some unforsaken reason said person lives they are probably scum which is why I don't like this.
Okay. That's good reasoning. I mean, it's basically a pseudoclaim from Azrael, which is awkward.
I do feel the latter is the case because knowing what a person will choose beforehand benefits the opponent so if said person is scum it benefits them knowing this information.
Does the benefit for scum outweigh the benefit for town? Is the benefit for scum necessarily significant in this context?
Also i wasn't be obnoxious atleast I didnt mean too i was just saying if this is anything like the game I know quite a bit, for example the fact that everyone should have started with 3 bp. Though seeing as dawn claimed otherwise I am quite concerned at the authenticity of her post.
I'm perfectly okay with metaphorically shaking hands and making up.
That whole exchange between Osieorb and Dawning gives me the creeps...
"I'd bus you ;)"
"No, I'm too good to bus ;)"
"Oh...well you look easier to bus that our other buddy ;)"
"No really, we're just bad town but as scum we are definitely great!"
Vote Dawning
Why do you think you're hard to bus? Who's underestimating you?
lol ok. should I claim? u will never want me lynched for sure <3
if I was scum it would be hard to bus me since I will enter this game with an informed mindset and, given how well I've handled things so far, it would be difficult to even pin a blame on me in the first place. now compare that with how I entered the game and tell me, is this rly the best I can do if I had an informed mindset? I can assure u, it will be hard to bus me if I was scum. I'd say everyone is underestimating my scumgame, thats what.
since we're starrrrting to get into the Tunnel of Dawn, pls question me. and remember, u go under my train u go under my knife. I won't let anyone vote me without a good reason, and by good reason I mean a reason I cannot refute.
or, if town wants, I'll just claim so we can do smthing more productive with our time.
@osieorb18 if I may intervene, the reason shin and grape both see this as role fishing, I believe directly links to the fact that because they will be seen as scum for betraying, they would probably be forced against the wall, with the only line of defense being, the claiming of their role... I good be totally wrong tho, so I do wonder what Grape and Shin see.
Edited: i know this is looked down upon, but I needed to fix a name, I put the real life name in by accident
1. That's not what I asked. I asked, "If LW were scum, who would his scumbuddies be?"
2. Do you see people voting anyone other than LW? Because I sure do, and in my experience, it detracts from an active wagon when there's another one that's even bigger.
3. Do you believe that scum can never be caught easily? Do you ever look at the momentum of the push accordingly?
You can ask questions of people without answering questions for other people. I'm not saying, "do nothing", I'm saying don't interfere with someone else's scumhunting process
1. if he was scum then... his team would be me and osieorb, maybe tom.
2. don't blame me if he flips town then. I played with Last before. give me some credit here.
3. I believe scum can be caught easily, same as they can't.
1. Okay. Tell me why.
2. That's not what I'm getting at - you're using that as a justification for townreading him, but as far as I can tell, that's an untrue premise on which to base a townread at present. Does that mean you're rescinding that observation and basing this strictly on meta, now?
3. Then...why your prior statement, which seems to contradict this stance? Also, you didn't answer my question about momentum.
1. I'm defending Last. Osie is seeing me positively. I voted Tom only to retract later.
2. u could say it's based off meta. tho it's just a playstyle imo, not a track record. if I have no clue of someone's playstyle I will ask them about it, like I did with Osie. I've played with Last before so I base off that and don't see the point in asking him about how he plays now. not sure if I would call that meta.. ppl usually see meta as a track record or graph of 'scum cuz u do this or that' to incriminate someone, I use meta as a way to look into someone's pov, and why they do what they did. I highly suggest u to question Last about how he plays FIRST before labelling him as scummy cuz of this or that behavior, without knowledge of his playstyle. one step at a time. is this explanation good enough?
3. just cuz I look for alternatives doesn't mean I'm contradicting myself. I like to think out of the box. regarding momentum, hmmm... there's no real basis for the train on Last in the first place, and it picked up too fast for my liking - that is quite a momentum u wanna live for lol.
1.Feels more like a pocket attempt
2.Too assume someone has to follow a meta when reading a player just aint right, you may not think last is scummy for something but another player may. WHich in reality its actually possible for said person to be scum.
3.I don't see it as contradicting I see it as lacking conviction, if your looking for alternatives its because your worried about something.
1. I'm defending Last. Osie is seeing me positively. I voted Tom only to retract later.
Positively is a bit of a stretch; mixed would be more accurate. Although, I would be more than likely to have you in nulls if we were scumbuddies. This early, though, in this game? If I was scum with you and whisper, I'd probably be bussing you at the least, if not whisper as well.
haha ok. mixed is still far from negative. if I was scum tho, I sure won't be an ez bus. does this say anything? idk about Last but I'm sure his scumgame doesn't suck this bad either. talk about underestimating the newbs.
No offense, but Lastwhisper doesn't seem as easy of a bus...
I think you're just as mislynchable as I am, which inherently means you'd be at least as easily bussable.
Where are these stats coming from? Also there isnot enough information to presume preflip so neither you or Dawn are mislyncble, also stating dawn is bussable seems quite weird its like your setting yourself up so later on you can do it without any feedback.
Hey dawn, I asked you some questions. Please answer them.
I dislike this reaction.
what were the questions? ok found it
1. That's not what I asked. I asked, "If LW were scum, who would his scumbuddies be?"
2. Do you see people voting anyone other than LW? Because I sure do, and in my experience, it detracts from an active wagon when there's another one that's even bigger.
3. Do you believe that scum can never be caught easily? Do you ever look at the momentum of the push accordingly?
You can ask questions of people without answering questions for other people. I'm not saying, "do nothing", I'm saying don't interfere with someone else's scumhunting process
1. if he was scum then... his team would be me and osieorb, maybe tom.
2. don't blame me if he flips town then. I played with Last before. give me some credit here.
3. I believe scum can be caught easily, same as they can't.
1. Okay. Tell me why.
2. That's not what I'm getting at - you're using that as a justification for townreading him, but as far as I can tell, that's an untrue premise on which to base a townread at present. Does that mean you're rescinding that observation and basing this strictly on meta, now?
3. Then...why your prior statement, which seems to contradict this stance? Also, you didn't answer my question about momentum.
1. I'm defending Last. Osie is seeing me positively. I voted Tom only to retract later.
2. u could say it's based off meta. tho it's just a playstyle imo, not a track record. if I have no clue of someone's playstyle I will ask them about it, like I did with Osie. I've played with Last before so I base off that and don't see the point in asking him about how he plays now. not sure if I would call that meta.. ppl usually see meta as a track record or graph of 'scum cuz u do this or that' to incriminate someone, I use meta as a way to look into someone's pov, and why they do what they did. I highly suggest u to question Last about how he plays FIRST before labelling him as scummy cuz of this or that behavior, without knowledge of his playstyle. one step at a time. is this explanation good enough?
3. just cuz I look for alternatives doesn't mean I'm contradicting myself. I like to think out of the box. regarding momentum, hmmm... there's no real basis for the train on Last in the first place, and it picked up too fast for my liking - that is quite a momentum u wanna live for lol.
1.Feels more like a pocket attempt
2.Too assume someone has to follow a meta when reading a player just aint right, you may not think last is scummy for something but another player may. WHich in reality its actually possible for said person to be scum.
3.I don't see it as contradicting I see it as lacking conviction, if your looking for alternatives its because your worried about something.
1. Nobody pockets me, I watch all...
2. I mean muscle memory is the hardest thing to change, so minor stuff might change, but not some of the larger things one may do constantly.
3. So going against the grain means said person is worried? What about you, who always has to play the devils advocate in every situation.
4. You and Phraze are in my neutral pile right now, unlike her and you. I want to refrain from meta reading the people I know..not that I could ever place you anywhere...
That whole exchange between Osieorb and Dawning gives me the creeps...
"I'd bus you ;)"
"No, I'm too good to bus ;)"
"Oh...well you look easier to bus that our other buddy ;)"
"No really, we're just bad town but as scum we are definitely great!"
Vote Dawning
Why do you think you're hard to bus? Who's underestimating you?
lol ok. should I claim? u will never want me lynched for sure <3
if I was scum it would be hard to bus me since I will enter this game with an informed mindset and, given how well I've handled things so far, it would be difficult to even pin a blame on me in the first place. now compare that with how I entered the game and tell me, is this rly the best I can do if I had an informed mindset? I can assure u, it will be hard to bus me if I was scum. I'd say everyone is underestimating my scumgame, thats what.
since we're starrrrting to get into the Tunnel of Dawn, pls question me. and remember, u go under my train u go under my knife. I won't let anyone vote me without a good reason, and by good reason I mean a reason I cannot refute.
or, if town wants, I'll just claim so we can do smthing more productive with our time.
If you claimed this early i would suspect you, because you have few votes and a whole 2 weeks to defend yourself. It would not be necessary to claim, i also quite concerned on how claiming will keep you from being lynched. Your role can prob be either alignment, that is to say unless mafia were given fake claims then that mean scum have scummy flavor.
This also feels more like wine than anything else, because your assuming we are suppose to expect the norm from every palyer.
Vote Dawn
What makes you so special? I feel like your being to cocky also don't like how you ignored my question about ahving +3 bp.
Also, be sure to volunteer enough role info while discussing the above that the scum can figure out sensitive role info and identify vulnerable targets and town power roles, ktxhbye.
This is why i think he was role fishing.
The way he came out and was like scum #1 and #2 seemed like he was sure those 2 were scum based on the few posts they had. Which is highly unlikelyy.
Apology accepted
Why what did azreal claim I must missed it.
I don't know which is more significant, just don't like the idea of giving information to the scum that may benefit them.
Also, be sure to volunteer enough role info while discussing the above that the scum can figure out sensitive role info and identify vulnerable targets and town power roles, ktxhbye.
This is why i think he was role fishing.
The way he came out and was like scum #1 and #2 seemed like he was sure those 2 were scum based on the few posts they had. Which is highly unlikelyy.
Apology accepted
Why what did azreal claim I must missed it.
I don't know which is more significant, just don't like the idea of giving information to the scum that may benefit them.
*shakes hand*
Osi was the only one who claimed and she claimed backup I think... but just ISO her/his posts and ull find it.
That whole exchange between Osieorb and Dawning gives me the creeps...
"I'd bus you ;)"
"No, I'm too good to bus ;)"
"Oh...well you look easier to bus that our other buddy ;)"
"No really, we're just bad town but as scum we are definitely great!"
Vote Dawning
Why do you think you're hard to bus? Who's underestimating you?
lol ok. should I claim? u will never want me lynched for sure <3
if I was scum it would be hard to bus me since I will enter this game with an informed mindset and, given how well I've handled things so far, it would be difficult to even pin a blame on me in the first place. now compare that with how I entered the game and tell me, is this rly the best I can do if I had an informed mindset? I can assure u, it will be hard to bus me if I was scum. I'd say everyone is underestimating my scumgame, thats what.
since we're starrrrting to get into the Tunnel of Dawn, pls question me. and remember, u go under my train u go under my knife. I won't let anyone vote me without a good reason, and by good reason I mean a reason I cannot refute.
or, if town wants, I'll just claim so we can do smthing more productive with our time.
If you claimed this early i would suspect you, because you have few votes and a whole 2 weeks to defend yourself. It would not be necessary to claim, i also quite concerned on how claiming will keep you from being lynched. Your role can prob be either alignment, that is to say unless mafia were given fake claims then that mean scum have scummy flavor.
This also feels more like wine than anything else, because your assuming we are suppose to expect the norm from every palyer.
Vote Dawn
What makes you so special? I feel like your being to cocky also don't like how you ignored my question about ahving +3 bp.
ok I'll be serious. yes I have more than 3 BP. it's logical to have more than 3 in case of a betrayal. I reallly don't mind claiming this early so ppl can focus on better things. my role isn't much anyways~ but hmm.. it looks like ur just making up some reason to vote me. got a new fluffing tactic for this site? that's my only explanation for this...
don't forget that locked lynches speed up the 2 weeks?? not sure how the rules are in that sense.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@shinichi-kun so rolefishing is bad, but u want to call her bluff which may lead to her claiming her role... Ok...
I can't tell if that is rolefishing or his usual 'vote whoever grills me' townie stunt. I'm kinda thinking its the latter..since he's been poking everyone's posts so far. thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Be grateful, always."
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A draft is in order.
.....
Be grateful, always."
I will be specifically okay with only my town reads betraying me for gain, BUT I will not be looking to actively betray anyone.
For example: if I get paired up with Stinkyjoe, I would pick ally, but I don't feel comfortable enough to be okay with him picking betray, and if he were to do so I would be actively pushing him.
I'm not actively looking to betray, but that is not reflective of willingness to be betrayed.
i dont think thats opportunism. sometimes you just see a person or two voting someone and think "hmmm yes i like that person getting votes lets encourage this"
like, yes if that thought comes from scum its opportunistic. its encouraging a wagon (or hopping on for credit).
but as town its just... applying pressure. seeing where wagons go. you dont always have original reasoning.
what im saying is theres lots of reasons to vote. mine tend to be some combination of pressure/vague feeling/reaction test/future data points/trolling.
Calm down. It's a social game. Iso and Terry do have a point.
"I... I think that bunny hologram is going to haunt me to the end of times."
Immediately after that, the speakers let out a loud crackle, and the voice belonging to the bunny hologram just laughed mockingly at people present.
Vote Count 1.2
Lastwhisper (4): Azrael, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, LnGrrrR, Iso
osieorb18 (1): BluesEclipse
LnGrrrR (1): Grapefruit21
tomsloger (1): Axelrod
D_V (2): Jenna Tolaria, dawningbluesky
Shinichi (1): Killjoy
Phoenix-Fire (1): Lastwhisper
Killjoy (3): osieorb18, D_V, tomsloger
Not Voting (3): Megiddo, Shinichi, Phoenix-Fire
With 17 alive, it’s 9 to lynch. The deadline is Tuesday, November 7th at 11.59 pm EST.
1. Okay. Tell me why.
2. That's not what I'm getting at - you're using that as a justification for townreading him, but as far as I can tell, that's an untrue premise on which to base a townread at present. Does that mean you're rescinding that observation and basing this strictly on meta, now?
3. Then...why your prior statement, which seems to contradict this stance? Also, you didn't answer my question about momentum.
Well, now that you mention it...
There is tons wrong with it and you should accept that you're throwing a wrench in the town's cogs when you do this.
Probably for the best.
I believe I asked you a thing, as well.
-
@Az, @Axel: Let's mindmeld. Tell me where you're at and why. I think you two have a good chance of being town and I feel like you're two of the stronger analysts in the game - so let's figure this out.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
1. I'm defending Last. Osie is seeing me positively. I voted Tom only to retract later.
2. u could say it's based off meta. tho it's just a playstyle imo, not a track record. if I have no clue of someone's playstyle I will ask them about it, like I did with Osie. I've played with Last before so I base off that and don't see the point in asking him about how he plays now. not sure if I would call that meta.. ppl usually see meta as a track record or graph of 'scum cuz u do this or that' to incriminate someone, I use meta as a way to look into someone's pov, and why they do what they did. I highly suggest u to question Last about how he plays FIRST before labelling him as scummy cuz of this or that behavior, without knowledge of his playstyle. one step at a time. is this explanation good enough?
3. just cuz I look for alternatives doesn't mean I'm contradicting myself. I like to think out of the box. regarding momentum, hmmm... there's no real basis for the train on Last in the first place, and it picked up too fast for my liking - that is quite a momentum u wanna live for lol.
Be grateful, always."
Positively is a bit of a stretch; mixed would be more accurate. Although, I would be more than likely to have you in nulls if we were scumbuddies. This early, though, in this game? If I was scum with you and whisper, I'd probably be bussing you at the least, if not whisper as well.
Be grateful, always."
No offense, but Lastwhisper doesn't seem as easy of a bus...
I think you're just as mislynchable as I am, which inherently means you'd be at least as easily bussable.
"I'd bus you ;)"
"No, I'm too good to bus ;)"
"Oh...well you look easier to bus that our other buddy ;)"
"No really, we're just bad town but as scum we are definitely great!"
Vote Dawning
Why do you think you're hard to bus? Who's underestimating you?
No idea, I'm primarily just quirking eyebrows at DV repeatedly.
I'm mostly wondering why LW isn't dead yet while my eyes glaze over as the walls of mostly inconclusive content scroll by. KJ probably needs to die. There's a bunch of people I haven't bothered to town-read yet. Taking it easy. Hoping inertia will do in LW so I don't have to do a PBPA quite yet. Also, I figure the more I lurk, the more town-cred I'll dissipate so the scum might not NK me n1.
Im not I saw your quote on page 4 or 5 its just i skipped that page to stay caught up to the game and i havent had a chance to catch back up till now.
Hmm i find this highly unlikely but i keep an open mind about it.
if I was scum it would be hard to bus me since I will enter this game with an informed mindset and, given how well I've handled things so far, it would be difficult to even pin a blame on me in the first place. now compare that with how I entered the game and tell me, is this rly the best I can do if I had an informed mindset? I can assure u, it will be hard to bus me if I was scum. I'd say everyone is underestimating my scumgame, thats what.
since we're starrrrting to get into the Tunnel of Dawn, pls question me. and remember, u go under my train u go under my knife. I won't let anyone vote me without a good reason, and by good reason I mean a reason I cannot refute.
or, if town wants, I'll just claim so we can do smthing more productive with our time.
Be grateful, always."
Meta can be manipulated, the response can be manipulated so its best not to worry about meta, it highly unlikely you will catch a scummy person based solely on their meta.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
I don't know about you but I find this whole situation to conventiont for comfort, why would scum blantly bus his own buddy without atleast providing his own reasoning. I am more inclined to think this is town tom who saw something click from either last or what you said about last that caused him to change vote. The sporadic voting also aint a bad thing some people jump from vote to vote when they feel they're onto something. On a side note its clear he was ok forming a train, but as town I don't see anything bad with that.
So i'm guessing if you had to pick 1 then I would assume you think Last has more of a chance to be scum than tom?
Sure if they're being logical, not so much if they are just being paranoid lol.
Lol, what?
Megs! I missed you.
Now to this dick of a post lol, literally don't know why you had to reply with some fort of arrogance here but oh wells.
I've never played with tom so i wouldn't know that but either way its an odd vote.
I am implying its supicious to say you will die if you get betrayed, because if for some unforsaken reason said person lives they are probably scum which is why I don't like this.
Maybe your reading a different post but thats my opinion that i acquired from reading what said person posted.
I do feel the latter is the case because knowing what a person will choose beforehand benefits the opponent so if said person is scum it benefits them knowing this information.
Also i wasn't be obnoxious atleast I didnt mean too i was just saying if this is anything like the game I know quite a bit, for example the fact that everyone should have started with 3 bp. Though seeing as dawn claimed otherwise I am quite concerned at the authenticity of her post.
I like this reaction.
Okay. You're someone who is easy to consider reading as scum, at least in this game. You also have towntells, but either side could be pushed forward into focus to make an argument for you as one or the other. Albeit, the only reason I wouldn't consider you for a day 1 lynch is that there's enough towntells there that I take pause. But that's not necessarily going to last.
If a townie has an ability that requires them to betray aren't you hindering them by telling them they risk being scum read by using it?
Day 1 no matter where u go tends to be the most active phase so nowthing much that can be done, unless your scum worrieda bout being left behind
If all goes according to LNG then i dont see a reason to be worried about betray unless your also willing to admit people will naturally click betray, which would mean that even town can betray.
Do you agree?
I'm sorry. Wasn't my intent.
Fair.
Okay. That's good reasoning. I mean, it's basically a pseudoclaim from Azrael, which is awkward.
I actively don't see it, so why do you feel that Azrael was rolefishing?
Does the benefit for scum outweigh the benefit for town? Is the benefit for scum necessarily significant in this context?
I'm perfectly okay with metaphorically shaking hands and making up.
Edited: i know this is looked down upon, but I needed to fix a name, I put the real life name in by accident
1.Feels more like a pocket attempt
2.Too assume someone has to follow a meta when reading a player just aint right, you may not think last is scummy for something but another player may. WHich in reality its actually possible for said person to be scum.
3.I don't see it as contradicting I see it as lacking conviction, if your looking for alternatives its because your worried about something.
Where are these stats coming from? Also there isnot enough information to presume preflip so neither you or Dawn are mislyncble, also stating dawn is bussable seems quite weird its like your setting yourself up so later on you can do it without any feedback.
1. Nobody pockets me, I watch all...
2. I mean muscle memory is the hardest thing to change, so minor stuff might change, but not some of the larger things one may do constantly.
3. So going against the grain means said person is worried? What about you, who always has to play the devils advocate in every situation.
4. You and Phraze are in my neutral pile right now, unlike her and you. I want to refrain from meta reading the people I know..not that I could ever place you anywhere...
If you claimed this early i would suspect you, because you have few votes and a whole 2 weeks to defend yourself. It would not be necessary to claim, i also quite concerned on how claiming will keep you from being lynched. Your role can prob be either alignment, that is to say unless mafia were given fake claims then that mean scum have scummy flavor.
This also feels more like wine than anything else, because your assuming we are suppose to expect the norm from every palyer.
Vote Dawn
What makes you so special? I feel like your being to cocky also don't like how you ignored my question about ahving +3 bp.
ppl get confused if u use my other name lmao
Be grateful, always."
This is why i think he was role fishing.
The way he came out and was like scum #1 and #2 seemed like he was sure those 2 were scum based on the few posts they had. Which is highly unlikelyy.
Apology accepted
Why what did azreal claim I must missed it.
I don't know which is more significant, just don't like the idea of giving information to the scum that may benefit them.
*shakes hand*
Be grateful, always."
don't forget that locked lynches speed up the 2 weeks?? not sure how the rules are in that sense.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."