Dear DBS,
Please confirm that you have been forthcoming with all the details of your role and if you believe that you are the only role blocker and vig in this game. Not combined, bit the only player with each of those abilities. I need you to answer this fully and honestly.
Thank you!
yes, I gave everything I know. paraphrased.
Proph had mentioned Bur's setups never have 2 of the same role, so I would assume I'm the only roleblocker and vig here. there is the offchance Bur made changes in his hosting meta. time will tell. I'm sure mafia have some intercepting ability though, or it would be too easy for the vig (who is me). I was hoping to find that interceptor before giving out my roleblocker claim.
Then how come you have a bunch of posts talking about your fear of being reblocked?
this: "I'm sure mafia have some intercepting ability"
I'm sure they have some kind of ability to nullify the vigshot. either ability, or some are immune to vigshots. it would be too easy to make me the only vig + roleblocker, since I would be able to shoot safely, knowing I'm the only interceptor.
if you say so. I'm not an idiot even if I'm new to this community. as tempting as it is to gamethrow, I will do my best to help until my lynch is decided.
1.
Quote from DBS »
idk how scum act around these parts but nah, I claimed cuz I have this 'curse' that I can never be pr, or if I roll pr I end up dead(mislynched) before I get the chance to use it. lmao
I might or might not shoot on N1. since I outed myself, there is the chance I could be roleblocked. do u think scum claim vig so early? ik they don't where I'm from.
scum vig? lol
question 1: what if I'm not shot by D2? that means the real vig who never cc'd me was roleblocked, and we mysteriously found him. possible?
question 2: what would u try if I'm still alive, and roleblocked or decide to hold my bullet?
I've never seen a scum vig in my life, never even rolled a killing role either, so it would be cool if I figured how to handle such roles on my own. yeah a scumteam to coach me is one thing, but this much attention? is that wine or solid reasoning?
explained why I claimed early, and I have a small hope of ever getting my ability off..tbh. my luck at rolling prs is bad, or I get trolled by rolling pr and die early. when I claimed, I more or less resigned myself to the possibility of being forever roleblocked~
I remember u never hard-tunneled. in fact, u ended up 'trusting everyone' lmao. as scum, u were very sure about ur choices. which am I seeing now? my role cannot be provable if I can't use it, either from roleblock/BP/bad N1 shot. for u to keep pushing on my lynch despite a surprise element to give more doubt, and u knowing my town game, just doesn't look good for u. so glad I'm the vig lol
Ok, so I just fired off four separate occasions where you talked about the fear of being role blocked. Don't go into this pity mode that this town is stupid and contradict yourself like this.
I just can't deal with all your contradictions anymore.
UNVOTE, VOTE: Dawningbluesky
I like you and really hope you keep playing here, so please don't take this personal, but you can't be alive in this game anymore. I really hope you are scum and I'll feel really bad if you are town, but I'm locked in.
If you're answer to my question about another roleblocker was:
"I was just WIFOMing scum"
I would have bought it. Instead you said:
Quote from DBS »
this: "I'm sure mafia have some intercepting ability"
I'm sure they have some kind of ability to nullify the vigshot. either ability, or some are immune to vigshots. it would be too easy to make me the only vig + roleblocker, since I would be able to shoot safely, knowing I'm the only interceptor.
I am asking him! He keeps not answering at all. And it's very frustrating/suspicious.
Also this post is much more about Last's defense of you than yours of him. And I keep mentioning it because regardless of familiarity of his meta (though you admit you don't know his scum meta so how familiar can you actually be) you shouldn't have the confidence level you appear to have now given the way you're treating everyone else. You keep mentioning the Lylo game as a reason for trust but have accused Shin of carrying over negative bias from previous games. Do you not see why that would be perceived as hypocritical? I think you're town, I'm just asking you to completely reset on Wisp because there is no way you should be trusting him like you are and no way he should be trusting you like he does. And I can't figure out if it's because one of you is scum or because you too are familiar with each other.
Also I don't believe I initially pushed for you to claim at all. And have not pressured you at all since then despite occasionally still calling you scum.
alright. if you're questioning him, please stop talking about the reasons I am scum in almost every paragraph that mentions Last.
I have played with Last on a separate team before, though it was a game of alliances and not mafia, and his playstyle was just as...annoying(?) as his town playstyle. it's not like I have 0 experience of playing on the opposing side, but I haven't seen an actual scumgame from him in a traditional setup. Shinichi can vouch for that.
"You keep mentioning the Lylo game as a reason for trust but have accused Shin of carrying over negative bias from previous games."
1. trust does carry over, and you acknowledge that. to refresh your memory....
[here: TLDR: He [Last] carried over trust from a hydra game (which often comes from town players after they play together with extra information) and didn't try to abuse it at all through now. Him actually forgetting I had a town read on him this page just further strengthens the read.]
whether I should trust or distrust any player is my choice to make. trying to control how players read the game is scummy.
2. is it normal for town to be so hardup about one person? Shinichi's focus on me has been distracting the town. maybe..he is scum? at this point of his questioning, it is just not normal. tell me how it's normal.
3. you didn't pressure me? then why did you vote me? don't say it was just a 'join the easy wagon' now, that is scummy lol
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
If you're answer to my question about another roleblocker was:
"I was just WIFOMing scum"
I would have bought it. Instead you said:
Quote from DBS »
this: "I'm sure mafia have some intercepting ability"
I'm sure they have some kind of ability to nullify the vigshot. either ability, or some are immune to vigshots. it would be too easy to make me the only vig + roleblocker, since I would be able to shoot safely, knowing I'm the only interceptor.
I bluff a lot, but my answer there was real. you wanted a sincere answer and I gave it.
I like you and really hope you keep playing here, so please don't take this personal, but you can't be alive in this game anymore. I really hope you are scum and I'll feel really bad if you are town, but I'm locked in.
why again? even if I was scum, don't you think you're just falling into a trap, being so focused on me? you're trying to catch a team, not a person. ok. I hope you feel bad, very bad. who cares if I'm just shaming town or whatever, because I am. this town is hopeless.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Well I'm glad that people are FINALLY coming to my line of thinking about Osie being scum.
[thoughts]
Iso might be town. I like his questions. I'm not going to be willing to lynch him today.
DV, despite being on my ass all day, has had good reactions to Dawn's postings, and is also probably town.
Az is usually better at figuring out my alignment. Also Az is the only one who's brought up the possibility of a neutral being in this game.
Dawn is town because her entire game has been not in concert with literally anyone. That would include the scum. I can't see Dawn being part of any scumteam, where she works with other people to achieve a common goal of survival and lynching townies.
Tom does seem agendaless, which frankly worries me. Following Powerwolf Tom in Low Fantasy, this polar behavior is something that's weird. Maybe he's just finally town though. *shrug*
LnGrrR might be scum. I need to ISO him because his preoccupation with betrayals and such makes sense given his role. On the other hand, I'm wondering if that's his whole role. He's currently like a limited lie cop which is worse than Tracker.
Osie is still scum.
I'm seriously wondering if Whisper is scum. His playstyle is kind of just abrasive and naturally scummy so all the scum signs I've seen are likely just playstyle based. Going to have to dig deeper into this slot.
I agree with whoever said Jenna staying current while still catching up was a good thing. That would be hard to do as scum, and therefore earns a townlean.
I still kinda think Terry might be town but I'm beginning to doubt my read on him.
[/thoughts]
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Meh I don't feel great about it unless KJ and Osie are scum together because that wall didn't feel like scum!KJ attacking town!Osie but Jenna has a good point and KJ has been lurking something fierce. And has the scum tells that got me voting him in the first place. Plus Jenna's hilarious psuedo-fruedian slip catch.
Vote: KJ
I have not been lurking. Bull*****. I've been posting regularly. Not as much as the rest of you but I have been.
Also @DV Never actually dropped the scum!Osie thing. Did you not notice my questioning Osie recently about his thoughts on LnGrrR? I think they might be aligned.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I don't think the tells I'm seeing from her now would be easily faked. And if her role functions as described, some amount of confusion is not unthinkable.
*thinks* vote jenna. I don't see any good reason for the self imposed, detached posting style.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I am asking him! He keeps not answering at all. And it's very frustrating/suspicious.
Also this post is much more about Last's defense of you than yours of him. And I keep mentioning it because regardless of familiarity of his meta (though you admit you don't know his scum meta so how familiar can you actually be) you shouldn't have the confidence level you appear to have now given the way you're treating everyone else. You keep mentioning the Lylo game as a reason for trust but have accused Shin of carrying over negative bias from previous games. Do you not see why that would be perceived as hypocritical? I think you're town, I'm just asking you to completely reset on Wisp because there is no way you should be trusting him like you are and no way he should be trusting you like he does. And I can't figure out if it's because one of you is scum or because you too are familiar with each other.
Also I don't believe I initially pushed for you to claim at all. And have not pressured you at all since then despite occasionally still calling you scum.
alright. if you're questioning him, please stop talking about the reasons I am scum in almost every paragraph that mentions Last.
I have to keep mentioning you when I talk about Wisp because his game is so centered on you. His game revolves around you almost entirely.
I have played with Last on a separate team before, though it was a game of alliances and not mafia, and his playstyle was just as...annoying(?) as his town playstyle. it's not like I have 0 experience of playing on the opposing side, but I haven't seen an actual scumgame from him in a traditional setup. Shinichi can vouch for that.
"You keep mentioning the Lylo game as a reason for trust but have accused Shin of carrying over negative bias from previous games."
1. trust does carry over, and you acknowledge that. to refresh your memory....
[here: TLDR: He [Last] carried over trust from a hydra game (which often comes from town players after they play together with extra information) and didn't try to abuse it at all through now. Him actually forgetting I had a town read on him this page just further strengthens the read.]
whether I should trust or distrust any player is my choice to make. trying to control how players read the game is scummy.
I was pointing out that was a bad thing to do but giving a town read because it seemed to be a subtle subconscious thing. I only gave him town credit for it because he seemed to be softly giving me more credit than he should. Also and most importantly I was a wolf trying to pocket him by town reading him while pointing out that I hadn't earned that trust!!! Whereas in your mutual town reads it seems to be an active choice and a much harder read. Also that debate is unrelated to my point that you claiming carrying trust over is okay, but saying that carrying mistrust over isn't is hypocritical. I'm not making a value statement of my own. I'm pointing out an inconsistency (admittedly a minor one) between your two stances. My opinion doesn't matter here because you're contradicting yourself.
2. is it normal for town to be so hardup about one person? Shinichi's focus on me has been distracting the town. maybe..he is scum? at this point of his questioning, it is just not normal. tell me how it's normal.
Town tunnels. It happens. I can point you to almost any of my town games ever. Scum also tunnels. I can point you to any of my scum games ever.
3. you didn't pressure me? then why did you vote me? don't say it was just a 'join the easy wagon' now, that is scummy lol
Now you're misrepresenting what I said. I pressured you. But I don't believe I called for you to claim. I thought you were scum and wanted to lynch you. Stop twisting my words. That whole post mentioned your inconsistencies not to paint you as scum, but to open your eyes and get you to reset on Wisp. Which you sorely need to do. Or at least explain why you're town reading him in detail.
If you're answer to my question about another roleblocker was:
"I was just WIFOMing scum"
I would have bought it. Instead you said:
Quote from DBS »
this: "I'm sure mafia have some intercepting ability"
I'm sure they have some kind of ability to nullify the vigshot. either ability, or some are immune to vigshots. it would be too easy to make me the only vig + roleblocker, since I would be able to shoot safely, knowing I'm the only interceptor.
I bluff a lot, but my answer there was real. you wanted a sincere answer and I gave it.
I like you and really hope you keep playing here, so please don't take this personal, but you can't be alive in this game anymore. I really hope you are scum and I'll feel really bad if you are town, but I'm locked in.
why again? even if I was scum, don't you think you're just falling into a trap, being so focused on me? you're trying to catch a team, not a person. ok. I hope you feel bad, very bad. who cares if I'm just shaming town or whatever, because I am. this town is hopeless.
If you are town, this town is hopeless because of you. Your actions. Not the town
@Killjoy you're right. I keep forgetting how much the top posters (Osie, DBS, LW) are posting and it's skewing my view of activity. Doesn't change the read, but yeah you're not lurking.
If you are town, this town is hopeless because of you. Your actions. Not the town
"if you cannot handle problematic players, you cannot gamesolve in the first place. there will always be problems to solve, your only job is to find the solution. blaming the loss of a team on one person is not sporting."
I have tried to be as informative as I can recently, and you behave like the game is already lost? town is hopeless, but it isn't lost. I am not the reason town is hopeless, since I've tried to help it, but they just refuse to look at what I'm trying to do now that..yes, it really is hopeless.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@D_V
how can Osie and Killjoy be both scum? Kiljoy made a wall on why Osie would be scum, and Osie explained (meticulously) that one of the points were wrong. if we have to suspect them as T/S, then Osie is scum.
I think its possible KJ tried to bus.
His case was so bad. It didn't even make Osie scum and I went point by point about why it was bad.
KJ has pretty much just floundered around this game. Like he dropped the Osie is scum thing real quick too.
hmmm is Killjoy a busser?
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@D_V
how can Osie and Killjoy be both scum? Kiljoy made a wall on why Osie would be scum, and Osie explained (meticulously) that one of the points were wrong. if we have to suspect them as T/S, then Osie is scum.
I think its possible KJ tried to bus.
His case was so bad. It didn't even make Osie scum and I went point by point about why it was bad.
KJ has pretty much just floundered around this game. Like he dropped the Osie is scum thing real quick too.
hmmm is Killjoy a busser?
Not if I can help it. But you don't have to take my word for it. There are quite a few people here who have been scum with me at some point in my mafia career.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@G21 "I have to keep mentioning you when I talk about Wisp because his game is so centered on you. His game revolves around you almost entirely."
you always direct your points towards me, not Last, to be scum. who are you even talking to? and well, the entire game of this entire town revolves around me. you're just being dramatic~ I hate hate hate hate hate hate that the reason you scumread me is because Last(presumed town to you) trusts me. that is so biased, even more biased than his trust towards me.
"I was pointing out that was a bad thing to do but giving a town read because it seemed to be a subtle subconscious thing. I only gave him town credit for it because he seemed to be softly giving me more credit than he should. Also and most importantly I was a wolf trying to pocket him by town reading him while pointing out that I hadn't earned that trust!!! Whereas in your mutual town reads it seems to be an active choice and a much harder read. Also that debate is unrelated to my point that you claiming carrying trust over is okay, but saying that carrying mistrust over isn't is hypocritical. I'm not making a value statement of my own. I'm pointing out an inconsistency (admittedly a minor one) between your two stances. My opinion doesn't matter here because you're contradicting yourself."
you defend yourself so hard. you must be scum. just kidding~ now you will scumread me for being so OMGUSy. oh hey.. you got so worked up replying me so that means you're scum too. you're just contradicting yourself...as well!
I'm saying that carrying trust over from a Lylo game is understandable. anyone will see the reason why, but you don't see it..because you REFUSE to see it. I never mentioned carrying over mistrust, only that Shinichi is gamethrowing by scumreading me...he doesn't mistrust me, he's just holding a grudge.
"Town tunnels. It happens. I can point you to almost any of my town games ever. Scum also tunnels. I can point you to any of my scum games ever."
DV and Iso had a more genuine tunnel than Shinichi. I don't believe Shinichi is tunneling on me by mistake, it is deliberate. the more someone interacts with me, the more I can see their intentions - and Shinichi's intentions come from the reason to annoy.
"Now you're misrepresenting what I said. I pressured you. But I don't believe I called for you to claim. I thought you were scum and wanted to lynch you. Stop twisting my words. That whole post mentioned your inconsistencies not to paint you as scum, but to open your eyes and get you to reset on Wisp. Which you sorely need to do. Or at least explain why you're town reading him in detail. "
twisting your words? aren't you twisting my words just the same. why did you vote me?
how open can my eyes get lol. if you want me to reset my read on Last, why do you have to say "Dawn could be scum trying to pocket Last, and I played with him before"? doesn't look like you're trying to reset MY perspective. I can read by gut feeling. what's so bad about it?
you're just deep in the tunnel because you're scum in the dark shadows.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
@D_V
how can Osie and Killjoy be both scum? Kiljoy made a wall on why Osie would be scum, and Osie explained (meticulously) that one of the points were wrong. if we have to suspect them as T/S, then Osie is scum.
I think its possible KJ tried to bus.
His case was so bad. It didn't even make Osie scum and I went point by point about why it was bad.
KJ has pretty much just floundered around this game. Like he dropped the Osie is scum thing real quick too.
hmmm is Killjoy a busser?
Not if I can help it. But you don't have to take my word for it. There are quite a few people here who have been scum with me at some point in my mafia career.
ok. I hope not.
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Can someone please talk to me about 4 instances I showed dbs talking about not wanting to be role blocked and saying he doesn't think there is another role blocker just now?
My only concern here is why scum would ever fake claim role blocker.
Can someone please talk to me about 4 instances I showed dbs talking about not wanting to be role blocked and saying he doesn't think there is another role blocker just now?
because I don't know what else you call 'being role blocked' other then being role blocked. maybe I should've used 'intercepted'?? I was meaning an intercepting role, and I'm very sure scum would have one. in Bur's other game, town had RB, but the mafia had a Delayer - which did 'block' an ability from being used. the rule of 1-role-per-game stayed, but we just never factored in the possibility of a Delayer. I'm trying to think CAREFULLY this time. I'm sure mafia has a role that can 'block' abilities, even if I'm the RB.
damn...
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"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
and that is my problem with this town.. they cannot see beyond what the scumteam gives them, on a golden platter.
Then who is the scum team?
most I can think of is Grapefruit and LnG at the moment. by association, Grapefruit has been falling back on LnG too much, besides lack of natural progression, and LnG is taking it all in.
So u think from game start GF is just gonna buss his teammate if so why?
why would grapefruit buss so hard and then not want to Lynch either me or LW, when we are fall throughs... I just thought about this, and it kinda clears GF for me for now...
I [b]beleive[b] pressure on Shin would yield results as to his alignment.
Ergo, I have a gut [b]feeling[/b] based on personality and posting style that how he reacts to pressure is a tell for him.
[...]
There's probably enough to determine his alignment [b]now.[/b]
[...]
Hedging is a way of adding modifiers to ideas that change them.
Like, I think Person X is scum for now.
Instead of just saying "Person X is scum", the hedge "I think" indicates an opinion (which could be wrong) and "for now" allows that opinion to change in the future.
As I said, hedging isn't definitive. Town aren't always confident either. But scum are more likely to since it gives them outs.
[...]
That means you [b]think[/b] he's scum.
Surely this is just a mistake and not a blatant clue.
This is actually a really good catch. I'm inclined to lean towards the clue side I think.
Okay I was wrong about Terry probably. His questions about other RB abilities are good and feel like his townself. He (and everyone else should stop pushing DBS, but that's another story).
I am familiar with LW's town and scum game. And this doesn't feel like either of them due to how focused he's been on defending DBS. Initially I had some town vibes from him and felt like DBS was attempting to pocket him. But with the way the majority of his posts for the past 72 hours have been playing hard defense for DBS I don't know what to make of it, none of this fits his meta either way. It's why I really want him to clarify his reasoning for town reading DBS.
can you explain to me why you're so adamant at mentioning my defense of Last? Shinichi asked me about it, which I explained, and it's because I know Last is an easily mistaken player - I love the a good challenge. for better elaboration, I'm expanding my range for reading off reactions - watch those who interact with someone I side, or accuse me for it, and watch what mindset it comes from.
what is the definition of pocketing? if you mean I side Last, the reasons are stated above. if you want Last to clarify his reasonings of defending, why aren't you questioning him actively? why is it only me? looks to me you're just commenting for the sake of commenting.
I am asking him! He keeps not answering at all. And it's very frustrating/suspicious.
Also this post is much more about Last's defense of you than yours of him. And I keep mentioning it because regardless of familiarity of his meta (though you admit you don't know his scum meta so how familiar can you actually be) you shouldn't have the confidence level you appear to have now given the way you're treating everyone else. You keep mentioning the Lylo game as a reason for trust but have accused Shin of carrying over negative bias from previous games. Do you not see why that would be perceived as hypocritical? I think you're town, I'm just asking you to completely reset on Wisp because there is no way you should be trusting him like you are and no way he should be trusting you like he does. And I can't figure out if it's because one of you is scum or because you too are familiar with each other.
Also I don't believe I initially pushed for you to claim at all. And have not pressured you at all since then despite occasionally still calling you scum.
Screw it. I've given most of an ISO on the first half of the game on Dawn, and my thoughts there are pretty much that I wouldn't mind a lynch because of anti-town, but I'm not convinced that she is in fact scum.
Shinichi's posting mostly screams town, I'll finish an ISO eventually, but for now I'm going to put him at townlean, with some chance of movement.
LW's posting is mixed. Way too much defensiveness leads me to believe scum, but I like some things that he's said. I'll start an ISO eventually, but for now I'm going to put him at scumlean, with a decent chance of moving up.
I gave my normal ISO on D_V in this post, which ties in with the rest of these, below. I'll finish that "unknown" ISO eventually.
@Killjoy, you wanted a list, well here's the reasoning:
I want to start off by saying that I normally never trust D_V or Terry. But I guess this game is different, for once. Anyways…
#33 - RVS. NAI.
#34, #35, #38 - Inherently NAI.
#50, 52 - Setup gaming. Uggh. NAI at best.
#53, 54 - I wish there was more content from Terry, but I guess it is early.
#56 - I extremely dislike this post. A lot of people have talked about it, but this just looks really bad.
#60 - So it's purely a meta read? *Sigh* Especially because meta reads are less useful on Tom.
#63 - Okay question if he doesn't know. NAI at worst.
#69 - I actually like the LW stuff. I don't like the later part.
#70 - Why are you so defensive yourself?
#73, 74 - Such a quick jump to defensive buddying. Not sure I agree.
#81 - NAI explanation.
#82 - That's still not much…
#86 - Oh boy. Feeling like this could go either way.
#87 - I actually like this paranoia.
#90 - Good point.
#94 - This feels overly defensive.
#95 - It's just "I'm town." Uggh.
#97 - Polite, but NAI.
#99 - NAI at best, setup gaming.
#103 - This explanation is okay, I guess.
#107 - Overly defensive.
#122 - Defensive, setup gaming.
#124 - Sometimes I like this, sometimes I don't. Here I'm inclined not to like it.
#130 - NAI at best.
#132 - What even is this interaction?
#133 - I don't think dichotomies should be assumed to be scum attempts to chain mislynches.
#136 - Inherently NAI.
#139 - I can't believe I'm the one saying this, but lack of confidence, much?
#141 - This could come from either alignment.
#144 - Meh. NAI.
#147 - Arrogance, followed by complete lack of self-awareness. Yuck.
#159 - Lazy. Probably NAI.
#162 - Reasonable response. Still probably NAI.
#163, 181 - Defensive, but potentially reasonable.
#186 - Indignant, not great, not the worst.
#198 - This is good, solid reasoning and effort.
#208 - Seems legit.
#209 - Probably NAI. Not sure where I want to place this.
#211 - I like this indignant attitude here.
#230 - This feels genuine.
#379 - Very accurate.
#380 - Good. Be done with it. Thank you.
#385 - Umm… Didn't read as sarcasm. But okay… If you say so. Last point sounds a bit garbled.
#387 - Arrogance, but probably NAI.
#388 - Good point.
#396 - I like this questioning of Jenna.
#399 - This question is a good choice.
#411 - Okay. My bad.
#424 - I like it.
#428 - NAI, Jenna's posts are frustrating at times.
#462 - NAI, reasonable explanation.
#464 - NAI, okay question.
#487 - This seems like genuine outrage.
#490 - Inherently NAI.
#499 - These are pretty good answers.
#500 - NAI, reasonable explanation.
#567 - I like this, though that's probably not a good thing.
#632, 635 - NAI, okay question.
#638, 639 - I think I like these posts. Maybe.
#647, 648 - I like these questions.
#722 - The question is very good. The first part is just a /barn, which in context is NAI, I think.
#723 - I was feeling the exact same way around this time.
#738 - I like some of this, though the way it's presented is… unusual. I'm at least a bit intrigued by that, though.
#744 - I laughed. NAI at worst, I think.
#746 - Again, this resonates for me as a concern I had, though in my case it was really more focused on Dawning. I like this, even if it's not the towniest of posts.
#953 - Thank you! NAI at worst, slight town feel.
#959 - I'm not opposed to this idea…
#960 - +Townfeels because it's a very legitimate point.
#987 - Reasonable response, though a little smarmy at the beginning. Overall, though, +Townfeels.
#1029 - NAI at worst, slight town feel.
#1103 - These are very good reads, even if I don't agree with all of them.
#1110 - I have to ponder this, but my thoughts were going in a similar direction, and I'm inclined to believe this as town.
#1113 - I like this pressure. I think I don't know Terry well enough to be absolutely sure that this is a town post, but I'm leaning town here.
#1119 - This, I think, is more likely to come from town!Terry.
#1120 - Meh. Could go either way.
#1121 - Ehh, everyone was confused about the claim.
#1123 - This is sickly sweet. I don't really want to read into this, and I think it's not completely unreasonable to just put it at NAI.
#1128 - Umm… Not reading your role isn't great, but the latter point is a good one.
#1132 - Yeah, it looked bad anyways, but I think Iso might be in the clear at least on that one.
#1163, 1170 - Discussion of Role PM. Uggh.
#1172 - I mean, a contradiction just creates a WIFOM situation.
#1181 - This seems bad… like, really bad. I get that the claim sucked, but this is painful to read.
#1183 - Discussion of Role PM. Uggh.
#1188, 1189 - Um… I guess this is NAI. Maybe. I don't like it.
Some really gross stuff at the end there with Dawning, and not a good start, but a decent number of solid posts. Townlean.
Phoenix has been rather weird for me throughout. Like, on the one hand, my gut feeling is that he's probably town, but on the other hand, the amount he is thinking about the game seems to fluctuate. Even with that, most of his posts are pretty good.
#23 - RVS on Killjoy. NAI.
#48 - Not much to see here. NAI.
#49 - Partial claim? What?! This feels way too early, though I guess it depends on the role.
#62 - I kinda like this reasoning, though a little more explanation here would have been nice.
#101 - And here's the explanation. I liked this enough to carry some suspicion for Terry along for quite a while.
#106 - This is a very good point. +Townfeels.
#183 - Clarification on Terry is good, Dawning question is good, Osie question is NAI, LnGrrrR question is good.
#187 - Okay. I'm fine with this.
#191 - I don't completely agree; opportunism at 1 vote out of 9 is pretty extreme. This is a reasonable question, but could come from either town or scum motivations.
#194, 196 - Mindmeld. Thank you for these questions!
#207 - Maintaining pressure on Terry.
#210 - Sure? Given the nature of the partial claim I'm not totally opposed to this reasoning.
#227 - This left me chuckling. I like it. Close to NAI, one way or another.
#370 - Okay. Relying on self-meta for D_V is ehh, but the first sentence here is more likely to come from town.
#376 - Good post. Lastwhisper's point was strange.
#378 - I think this is a satisfactory answer, actually. I understand Jenna's later complaint though, as I can see why someone would read this as contradictory.
#442 - I like the look of Phoenix's swagger here, though complaining about not being able to keep up isn't great.
#503 - I like the implication of a case-by-case analysis.
#504 - You can read Jenna's posts? What?! Instant townread … I mean, NAI.
#514 - It gave me the creeps and I was part of it. Vote is good.
#613 - NAI at worst, townfeels for indignant questioning.
#614 - Catchup question. Seems okay.
#709 - This kinda comes out of nowhere. I don't agree on everything here, and I'm particularly not sure about Grape being the GOAT Town.
#713 - I like it when people push other people to participate. +Townfeels.
#714 - I mean, it's just speculation, but if you allow for it, then you can allow yourself to put a higher number of active people comfortably into townreads. Mostly NAI post, though. I don't like the second part.
#719 - NAI or town.
#906 - This post made me laugh, and I support its premise.
#923 - Good pressure on a good target.
#924 - Inherently NAI.
#1069 - /barn (Yeah, I didn't get this either) /semi-barn (Well, LnGrrrR's post still isn't great, but isn't the worst) /barn (I'm considering that…) /barn (Yep) /barn (Flips are huh?)
#1143 - Inherently NAI.
#1146 - That point on Iso is a good one. Indecision at this point does make some sense; I'm kinda feeling it too.
#1149 - Huh. I didn't see just how bad that post from Dawning was. This is a good point.
#1151, 1152, 1155 - This is why you don't setup game… Good reaction in #1155, though.
I didn't realize just how much I liked Phoenix's posts. Strong Townread, unlikely to go down any time soon.
@Phoenix: Why so extremely positive on Grapefruit?
#515 - It feels really unfortunate that Megs started so late.
#781 - This post could come from either town or scum. I'm inclined with Meg to believe that it's a slight towntell, because I think as scum he'd not even bother to display confusion.
#782 - NAI, though I was amused.
#783 - I laugh probably a little too much every time I read this post. NAI.
#830 - This is quite reasonable for not reading the whole game.
#846 - I didn't care for LW's post either.
#901 - Again, I like this post mostly just because I agree on some level.
#913 - This sort of pressure seems more likely to come from town.
#917 - NAI.
#918 - Same thought as with 913.
#945 - Reasonable question to me.
Megs has a few townie posts, some NAI. I want to see more effort, and I certainly could see him as scum depending on future posts, or lack thereof, but I'm leaning town just based on his current posts.
LnGrrrR is viscerally suspicious to me, but I think part of that is just not knowing him very well. Let's see…
#6 - A lot of people have talked about this, but the way this comes off is pretty bad. I think if he presented this as a full argument it would have been better. The vote is seemingly RVS; NAI.
#9 - Inherently NAI.
#75 - I really don't like this. This is like promoting self-votes.
#85 - Reasoning would be nice. The claim argument is WIFOMing the hell out of me, so it's probably NAI.
#110 - Doubling down on the suicide angle. Uggh. I mentioned already that I didn't care for the question here.
#116 - Sounds about right.
#171 - Reasonable questions here. I don't like the reasoning for GF, but the fact that it is an answer is something.
#254 - I don't like the use of the word "townslip" here. Besides it sounding scummy, what does it even mean? Scum already know who is town… Do you mean that you think that he did a super towntell? If so, why? The mechanics element is dubious but NAI.
#267 - I mean, I was, but sure. This defensive post could come from either alignment. The comment towards GF is overly cryptic.
#274 - The reasoning isn't great. The setup gaming is NAI at best.
#279 - Okay, partial claim…
#289 - I don't like how he just ignored LW's third option. On the other hand, I don't think that this interaction is W/W, so that's something.
#340 - I get where he's going with this, and I think it's more likely a town reasoning than not, but I think it might be overly simplistic, or just wrong, as well.
#341 - I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, most of the points look reasonable. On the other hand, it feels kinda like scrambling.
#342 - I think this is legitimate. NAI or slight town.
#345 - I like this "I've got a plan!" attitude, come to think of it.
#347 - Sure, this is probably genuine.
#363 - Besides the point that is just false of both choosing betrayal being negative instead of null, this also has the weird contrast on KJ and Grapefruit that someone else mentioned. I'm overall not enthused by this post, even if there's some good bits.
#470 - Bleh. NAI at best.
#572 - I'm biased, but this pressure seems good. And it wasn't after anyone else saying the same, which is a good sign.
#579 - Angleshooty. Meh.
#582 - Pushing for a claim here, though I agree that 520 is not good.
#609, #611 - What? Not as bad as later on when Iso did something similar with the CC, but #609 is dubious. Maybe this is town.
#612 - Yuck. Not that the post it was responding to was great either.
#623 - Starting from at least a scumlean as of this post for certain.
#688 - I'm pretty meh on LnGrrrR at this point… I think this is NAI at best.
#690 - "can't make anyone betray" - What?! What?! Uggh.
#700 - NAI at worst, possibly good.
#706 - Pseudo readlist. Explanations would be nice. Also, something about being overly cautious here comes to mind.
#755 - I like this post, even if parts of it are wrong.
#759 - This feels like blatant open wolfchat. On a sidepoint, I'm also almost inclined to scumlean Shinichi just based on this post.
#762 - Intended to be towards DBS. Pure setup gaming. NAI at best.
#763 - Inherently NAI.
#790 - Okay. This feels good. NAI at worst.
#1046 - Why the random snipe at Grapefruit? I like the analysis on Dawning. Also, my Huntzilla/Kpaca/Ophidia Looney Tunes post from Revolution comes to mind: "I demand that you shoot me now. So shoot me now!"
#1054 - I don't like the first part much, feels like scum coaching, whether or not they are aligned. The second part is reasonable, though contrasts severely with the first part.
#1068 - Reasonable statement and question.
#1079, #1085, #1087, #1088 - Huh. I'm inclined to believe this, which I think makes this a town progression of sorts.
There's a lot I don't like, but a bit I do like. A scumlean is the right place for now, with reasonable likelihood for movement one way or the other.
I dislike a number of posts from Killjoy, and I'm inclined to believe for a variety of reasons that his longer posts and his attempts try to quickly mislynch me out of the game are in this case possible scumtells. That said, Grapefruit made a good point on Killjoy and I vaguely recall some bits here and there that seem earnest enough to consider that he might be town. His longer posts are, like mine sometimes are, effectively multiple posts in one, so I'm going to split at least some of them up. Here we go.
#7 - "Hello future victims" as a start makes me uncomfortable. It's the sort of thing someone says as ballsy scum or to justify acting like ballsy scum in a later town game. Otherwise, null post.
#14 - I like the question towards LnGrrrR.
#111 - I don't think that the "list of people who can betray me" idea is actually a good one. It seems no different from a reads list. Killjoy somewhat recognizes this point, though he kinda skirts around it a little.
#111 Re: Iso - Talk about hedging… This looks like textbook hedging.
#111 Re: Azrael - Claiming Vigilante… Hmph.
#111 Re: RSJT #50 - Setup gaming for the purpose of being helpful. YMMV on how you read this.
#111 Re: LW - I didn't like that post either.
#111 Re: D_V - So at this point he's thinking there's multiple scum in RSJT + Tom + LW.
#111 Re: RSJT #94 - So at this point he's thinking that Tom and LW are both scum.
#111 Re: Phoenix - Doubling down on Tom + LW scumteam.
#113 - Definitely scumreading LW, with an explanation based on tone and issues with two posts. I agree with his issues with those posts, though, so that's something.
#119 Re: D_V - Weird, but probably NAI interaction
#119 Re: Dawning - Also NAI.
#168 Re: RSJT - "There's no way to lose just one BP" is objectively false. Also, setup gaming.
#168 Re: Dawning #123 - Legitimate argument underscored by the fact that they could be buddies.
#168 Re: Iso - Good question.
#168 Re: Dawning #146 - I don't ascribe to meta reads like this, but Killjoy might. I think this is probably NAI, though it is kinda asking someone else to do the work for you.
#168 Re: Osie #158 - Lazy. NAI at best.
#355 - At 6 posts out of 349, with an ideal average of 20 or 21, given the number of players, inactive is a relatively correct term. This also seems incredibly defensive for no reason.
#355 Thoughts on D_V - D_V was opining that one of LW, Tom, or RSJT was scum.
#355 Vote on Shinichi - This is an attempt to start a wagon on next to no justification. Light scum ping.
#355 Thoughts on Tom and LW - What a flip on both of them… And hedging on LW: "I begin to feel like"
#355 Thoughts on Dawning - Fence-riding, shade on Dawning without conviction…
#355 Thoughts on Grape - Note: Positive thoughts here on Grape, Puts as solid town in readlist
#355 Thoughts on Az - This is basically how I act when I respect someone's experience enough to not pigeonhole them into a certain pattern. NAI.
#355 Thoughts on LnGrrrR - Okay, so scumread on LnGrrrR.
#355 Thoughts on Osie - That's fair that I'd been joking a lot, but saying I wasn't working to find scum is wrong. If he "seems to ALWAYS scumread" me, then why not take it with a grain of salt throughout?
#355 Thoughts on Phoenix - That's lazy and not fair; he questioned me and Dawning and responded to Shinichi. This implies that Killjoy was skimming a lot of the thread and that these thoughts and readlist as a whole are unreliable at best.
#483 Re: Grape #357 - I see where he's coming from on LW here, at least. Shin comment doesn't look great.
#483 Re: Shin #360 - Setup gaming is NAI at best. Later point is a reasonable question.
#483 Re: LnGrrrR #363 - I feel off about this interaction somehow.
#483 Re: Axelrod #375 - I don't think they're bad stilted, but I definitely recognize them as stilted. And the other points are reasonable, though the BP one is setup gaming, which is not wonderful.
#483 Re: D_V #403 - Uggh. Gross.
#483 Re: D_V #403 (Responses) - Minus the overreaction on Whisper and the rudeness on some of the others, this is mostly okay.
#483 Re: Dawning #405 - Very reasonable.
#483 Re: Tom #427 - I think Shinichi is at least good enough that I don't want to lynch him D1. As for me, joking is just a side job.
#483 Re: D_V #461 - This is weird. I'm not sure whether to like this or not.
#488 - Okay, you can calm down now. This is just emotional and unnecessary.
#495 - I don't like this sort of post, but I think given the context it might actually be a positive.
#496 - Good, but inherently NAI.
#530, 568 - HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE
First off, I wish this post was more broken up or organized in some way.
Secondly, I'm not super thrilled by the unvote at the beginning. That suggests that he's planning to vote me from the beginning.
#569 Re: Osie #158 - It's the beginning of the game! Why do I need to fake emotions? Yes, I was stifling discussion on mechanics, because generally it's a waste of time. I like it as much as if not more than the next person, but it doesn't help town to solve the game. As for the Iso-Terry point, it's kinda two different things. When talking to Iso, I'm asking what his reasoning is, whereas when talking to Terry, I'm pointing out a reasonable reasoning. Not necessarily Iso's reasoning, but a reasonable one.
#569 Re: Osie #180 - "Okay," which is what I actually said, is not equal to good, not equal to bad. It's relatively null, as is also the case when one doesn't have much of an opinion. I don't think this was an intentional misinterpretation, but I don't like that he actually just flat-out went with a different meaning than that of my earlier post.
#569 Re: Osie #228 - That would feel like too drastic of a change. Keep in mind that Terry was plummeting down in my reads right at this point. So any turnaround is already drastic, let alone putting him at the other end of the scale. I'm not going to forget my previous read just because of one post, not unless that post is something like a message from Bur confirming Terry as an Innocent Child.
#569 Re: Osie #236 - This is fair. And yeah, I didn't care for any of them.
#569 Re: Osie #239 - Oh come on, that was basically live action response to someone asking me to explain further. It's pretty much whatever. Yeah, I didn't go into detail at first. But I was also providing Terry with a quick link to the ISO, and part of the post was that I wanted to see more from LnGrrrR, a very legitimate reason to put pressure on someone.
#569 Re: Osie #240 - I've already explained that this was based on where I put inactives in my reads usually; I was mostly saying that the majority of players were at least null.
#569 Re: Osie #290 - What's there not to get? I was posing a contradiction to Dawning's point, pointing out that people were in fact questioning those two people.
#569 Re: Osie #297 - I mean, I guess it's legit, but it's VERY subjective.
#569 Re: Osie #321 - LW connection concern seems random. Like, so what?
#569 Re: Osie #329 - They don't have to be related.
#569 Re: Osie #336 - That's exactly where such speculation would make sense!
#569 . . . - I read the rest of things. The post as a whole feels like a mix of some legitimate points and some amount of shoehorning stuff into a narrative to fit his read. And all, in all, I don't come off looking so awful. Even if I buy into the strictest reading of his system, which I'm not sure that I do, I'm still not anywhere near where I should be according to his reads for a strongest scumread.
#569 - I think he's also underestimating a lot as "fluff" or "basic," and overestimating a lot as "hedging" or "weird." But some of this is sensible. Overall, I have the feeling that the amount of overwrought waffling about is more likely to come from scum. But if he is, in fact, town, then maybe he'll stop tunneling on me at some point.
#571 - Finally out! Wow that previous post was excessively long. This one appears to be setup for a Shin wagon...
#573 - So "because I just ISO'd Osie, and haven't ISO'd anyone else, and because after two previous games with him, in one of which he died early on, I'm super certain I know how to read him, I'm as certain as I can be that Osie is scum." Like, "confidence in Osie!scum is at its peak" sounds like he's directly implying 100% surety in a scumread in me. How is he so certain?
#576 - NAI at worst. Saying you're going to read someone is w/e.
#588 - He's so proud of the overwrought production.
#589, 590 - Pushing the wagon. This feels kinda tentative, though, as if he's testing people.
#659 Re: Osie #577 - I already responded to this, but I feel like it's like an anti-evolution argument; there's "some ideal point of detail" and it's never going to be reached.
#659 Re: Osie #578 - Explanation would be nice.
#659 Re: Osie #583 - Responded to this already. I see where he's coming from, though it's probably overall NAI.
#659 Re: Tom #598 - Killjoy seems not remotely self-aware at times, too. This is concerning.
#659 Re: Phoenix #613 - Cringe. Moving on.
#659 Re: Dawning #641 - What? Townread for not thinking about the game? I don't even. This makes no sense. I'm intrigued by the one scum on the wagon thought. It's a common idea, and with 5 people there, it is likely, at only 18% odds of no scum on the wagon. I know I'm town, and I'm pretty sure Phoenix is town. Shinichi and Grapefruit have been both townleans for me, but that could certainly change.
#696 Re: Grape #660 - Wasn't Killjoy in Revolution? Well, I suppose that's pretty NAI. "Your approach to this game is anti-town" and "I have a scumread on you" are both specific reasons. If you want more detail, you can ASK, rather than just throwing dirt at me.
#696 Re: Grape #581 - I guess I'm not the only person getting their point misrepresented by Killjoy to push a lynch. This leaves me inclined to believe town!Grape, but I'll wait until the ISO.
#696 Re: D_V - I feel like I could say the same to Killjoy.
#696 Re: Iso #663 - While I agree that the term "Mandersbusy" isn't great, and I suspect Manders might as well, Killjoy's point here is a strawman.
#696 Re: Iso #666 - Nuance? I'm being pushed for based on some small nuance? So this is literally admitting that his vote on me is not actually motivated purely by him considering me to be way scummier than everyone else. Also, he's actually just being insulting for the sake of it towards Iso.
#696 Re: Shinichi #669 - I addressed this, but this is objectively false.
#696 Re: Azrael #680 - This is a fair point.
#696 Re: Osie #691 - Some of this feels very fake. I think most of it is actually good, but it's intermixed with stuff like the reaction to my comment on Dawn that seems acted to maintain his argument against me.
#720 Re: Grape #702 - Reasonable question.
#720 Re: LnGrrrR #706 - "Just a tunnel to the left, then a tunnel to the right. Put your tunnel in your posts, and bring your tunnel in tight. But it's the tunnel thrust… Really drives you insa-a-a-a-ane. Let's do the tunnel again! Let's do the tunnel again!"
#720 Re: Iso #716 - Good point on the busywork aspect. And *sigh* I think I'll just leave this here
#721 - Wait, so you're not sure what was the motivation for your own argument? This makes zero sense.
#736 - I hate it when people say "Use your brain," regardless of context. The fact that this post is actually just a personal attack on Iso rules out any good bits that it could potentially have.
#745 - Inherently NAI or slightly town.
#928 - This feels leading, but I've done that as town in this very thread, so that's NAI.
#929 - Inherently NAI.
#950 - Same point as #928.
#990 - This feels VERY leading. I'm intrigued to see where he's going with this.
#1026, 1034 - Ask and ye shall receive. Oh boy. AtE, then... I think I basically addressed this, but I'm always hesitant to come after people who are tunneled on me because I don't want OMGUS to weigh in too hard. My biggest concern is that while he may actually be town convinced on his hard tunnel, it's not clear that he really started from a point of objectivity. But Grapefruit's point "he doesn't let you look that good if he's scum" is really catching. But even when he seems like he's potentially considering the possibility of a hard tunnel, it's like he just shuts off any other possibility. I also get the feeling that this long posting style and attempt to setup what appears to be a chain of mislynches starting with a hard tunnel on someone who is town is EXACTLY what Killjoy would gravitate towards as scum.
#1036, #1043, #1047 - These are all good question posts that I would expect from town.
#1142 - Ooh. A medium length post that's also filled with good points. A bit of wrong setup gaming, but that's NAI in context. His argument for why it's okay for him to edge raises an eyebrow or two, but all-in-all I like this post.
#1147 - Pure setup gaming. NAI at best, Scum wasting time at worst.
#1148 - Inherently NAI.
#1153 - Or just stop setup gaming.
#1154 - I think part of the point that Iso is making is the "scum busywork" point; that while something like this can be fulfilling, it's a lot of work, and if you're not progressing your reads and the game while doing it, you're probably just wasting time, which makes you more likely scum.
#1156 - Inherently NAI.
#1164 - I'm not sure if he actually gets what Iso is suggesting or not. He still hasn't commented on the scum busywork element.
So this definitely leaves Killjoy at no higher than null to me. I think he's hiding behind the idea of putting effort in with the busywork post and setup gaming. It's not clear that he's progressing the game or his reads. There are some town points here and there, and Grapefruit's point on him is a good one. But I still am left with a bad taste in my mouth. I'm going to put him at scumlean for the moment with potential to move either way.
@Killjoy:
What made you flip on Tom and LW in #355?
Why not take your scumread on me more hesitantly if you ALWAYS scumread me (always incorrectly, may I add; I've been town in every game with you)?
Why unvote someone else specifically at the beginning of an ISO on me, as if you plan to vote me from the start?
Why do I need to fake emotions at the beginning of the game?
Why are you expressing roughly 100% certainty that I'm scum when your ISO suggests differently?
How is not thinking about the game a towntell?
What did you mean by post #721; it looks like you aren't sure about the motivation for your own argument?
Did you grasp the point Iso was making about scum busywork or just part of the point about levels of certainty, as #1164 suggests?
#367 - Okay. ATE, but NAI for a first post.
#369 - I disagree with some of this, and dislike the Iso bit. This feels very rushed for some reason. Not sure what is meant by "The strength axis… …the vertical." I liked the Garfield typo, though it's completely NAI, although it kinda falls in with an issue that I have that I'll bring up later.
#373 - This post feels a little pointless, but I suppose it could be Jenna's form of pressure on Phoenix… …who is a townlean? What?
#374 - This post makes no sense to me. What I can get out of it is NAI.
#395 - I chuckled. This is a good post, and done with a good sense of humor.
#419 - This post is what led me to post #431. As seems to happen with Jenna, this is stilted and cryptic. Attempting to translate this gets me something like:
Sorry, some clarifications. This is the consequence of poor word choice.
I just don't care for DV, Azrael merely supports that feeling.
My disagreement with Axelrod may require quoting some posts, which is an incredible pain.
I can emotionally relate to the other newbie trio members. Specifics may prove difficult: reminiscent of "deja you" or more clearly, extracorporeal time travel shenanigans. NOT THE FAINTEST IDEA WHAT THIS MEANS.
Regarding yourself, do you not think my other post contained this information? I'm not lying.
I'll rewrite the thoughts I lost from earlier.
It's not necessarily a bad post outside of needing to translate it, but I am not sure if I can really say I'm reading this as town, especially given that I'm not even sure if I'm reading it correctly.
#498 - To the point. She doesn't care for Phoenix.
#501 - That's very specific to be concerned about, but okay. Not sure what "A draft is in order" refers to, but I'm not overly bothered by that, I think?
#585 - Okay, so time travel means reading old posts, I guess, at least here. Cryptic question is cryptic, but I might understand.
#621 - Apology is NAI. I do like that she's making the points she seems to be trying to make here on the statements. But in regards to the questions, what Iso said also comes up, with "immoral" as "unfair." Also, I'm not really sure why she's concerned in this particular manner on the first question. I kinda get it, but kinda don't.
#625 - After elaboration, I think this is okay. Really awkwardly worded, but okay.
#626 - Sure. Not sure why she's responding to that question specifically…
#654 - NAI, but cryptic.
#927 - This is a quite decent argument on Shinichi. The extended well metaphor is interesting.
#930 - Amusing, and fits in with the thoughts from #927.
#931 - I feel like she has over-extended her metaphor. Not that the question is necessarily unreasonable, though.
#933 - Explanation would be nice. But it's at least a bit of something.
#934 - Pocketful of Sunshine
#935 - I'm not sure if she doesn't know what a pocket is, if she is being coy, if she is suggesting that one of the two of us is pocketing the other, or something else.
#936 - A good question to me. That said, this is one of a few posts where I even exist, which, getting back to my earlier point, is potentially supported by the typo in #369 and the lack of responses to questioning. I'd love to see any indication that she's actually reading my posts…
#939 - It seems like she's accusing Grapefruit of being over-confident on his setup gaming, if I'm reading this correctly. A townie post, but not anything special.
#942 - I like this post a lot. It feels like organic town.
#944 - Inherently NAI.
#955 - Sigh. I like the extended metaphor smarm here, but it is unnecessarily cryptic.
#957 - Fair request, if I'm reading this correctly.
#958 - I understand that not everyone would immediately see that, so this is reasonable.
#966 - I guess? There are more polite ways to put this.
#976 - This is a damn good question.
#1065 - Not clear what exactly she's trying to imply here, but it doesn't feel scummy. NAI at worst.
#1066 - This feels like a nothing post.
#1067 - Lack of explanation is a little frustrating, but I think I get where she's coming from on some of these reads… Although, DV + Shinichi + Terry + Axelrod as suspected scum team… Huh. I don't have scumreads on any of those players, outside of relative tinfoils on Shin and Terry. It's concerning, but disagreement is not significant enough for me, especially on Day 1.
I wish she wasn't so cryptic all the time. But it could be worse, and overall, I'm slightly leaning town, with decent potential to move downwards, especially due to crypticism.
#26 - Iso starts with a vote on Axel, which looks to be for Axel's vote on Tom. I guess this is serious… Slight town feel there.
#29 - Normal Iso confidence. NAI.
#131 - The first sentence could be a scum ploy, but is relatively NAI. I wish he gave more explanation in this post of his reads. At the time, I like the read on LW, and I understand why such a read might be the case for Tom. I was also mostly okay with D_V and Az at this point, and not awful on Killjoy. I like his question towards Bluesky. All in all, a slightly town post.
#137 - Given who it is, I have no reason to believe that this is anything other than NAI.
#193 - I like the relevant, first two parts of the post. I still wish that he was putting out more content, but it's not bad. This post feels slightly town as well.
#433 - He's maintaining pressure on Dawning, actively thinking about Shinichi's point, considering other parts of the game, and he responded to my question. I'm not sure how I feel about the daytalk suggestion. The vote seems reasonable.
#434 - (EBWODP) NAI, being reasonably helpful.
#480 - Everything here appears fair. Also, maintaining pressure on Dawning seems slightly town.
#509 - Maintaining pressure on Dawning, feels genuine. Joke to Killjoy seems like Iso's getting into the swing of the game. Townreads and questioning towards Az and Axel seem reasonable, though I'm not sure how I feel about it coming from Iso specifically.
#663 - This post pushes Iso from townlean to townread for me. I don't care for the weird positioning with Az and the repeating of the daytalk question (which I guess is something Iso is stuck on). I like the Dawning, Killjoy, Jenna, and Lastwhisper bits.
#664 - Iso acts lazy at times, but is a good person and if he feels something is the right thing to do, he'll generally go for it. But not without kvetching, which is all I think this post is. He's said in the past that when he's playing as town, he's just being himself, which gives me good feelings here. I'll leave this as NAI, though, given the potential for WIFOM if I overanalyze laziness.
#666 - I love it, and this is one of my main concerns with Killjoy.
#668 - Very slight scumminess for me here; this looks pockety.
#671 - Inherently NAI.
#687 - I wouldn't put it past Iso to act out this post as scum in a vacuum, but with the rest of his posts, I'd put it as slightly town.
#716 - NAI or slight town. I don't like the pseudoappeal to IRL here, though I like the questioning.
#727 - NAI. Each part could be interpreted in either direction.
#932 - Inherently NAI.
#1080 - What are you doing? Okay…
#1081 -
#1091 - This seems like Iso put some effort into this. Let's see. I actively don't like the attitude throughout this post. Otherwise it feels pretty NAI. Oh, and overly emotional.
#1104 - Again, the attitude really rings badly. Is Iso frustrated with this game? Is impolite!Iso a thing now? How am I supposed to read this?
#1127 - I disagree that you're not being a jerk. Also, this post mostly just boils down to "HEY, YOU GUYS! I'm town."
#1135 - This feels really bad. Like, OoG angleshooty bad.
#1140 - This… doesn't feel like an Iso post, though it does seem more likely to come from a town player.
#1150 - Okay, back to a post quality that I can stand behind.
#1158 - Or something. I agree with Iso's point here. Not sure if he has to be getting nearly this wound up about things, and not sure what that means for alignment.
#1160 - Ehh. Especially with #1135.
#1161 - I'm biased on this post, but I do like that there's questioning going on.
#1168 - Did Iso and D_V switch accounts for this game? This post isn't awful, but it isn't good either.
#1171 - Again, biased, but the argument makes a lot of sense even beyond that.
All-in-all, I'm at light townlean. A number of his recent posts give me pause, but there's a high number of good posts throughout. High potential to move either way.
Grapefruit was town or null for most of the game for me so far. I liked a lot of his posts at the time, but several other people have scumread him, and I certainly saw moments that he seemed pockety towards me or towards others. So I'm going in relatively null on this one.
#18 - Serious vote this early? Hmm.
#20 - This is a very good point.
#242 - Yeah, this was kinda how I felt when I came back the first day. His reads seem quite reasonable, and his idea and confidence on the Tom/Terry/Wisp triangle (I like that phrasing) feel appropriate. Read on me is either really good or really bad.
#249 - Ooh. Townie indignant reaction. I like. Again, not sure how I feel about his thoughts on me.
#301 - Yeah! Nice, clean pressure.
#302 - No strong town feels? Aww. Not super enthused with this comment to Tom, though I like the second part.
#356 - This feels sincere. Continued townfeels.
#357 - Hmm. I think this is townie. There's some awkwardness for me here in the first bit, but all-in-all decent.
#377 - Meta meta, meta meta, meta meta, meta meta… BATMAN! Meh.
#551 - I'd love more explanations here.
#552 - It's not a bad post. Not sure how good it is, though I like the last part.
#553 - Mm-hm.
#556 - Okay, this feels good. I want to see more, though, at this point. Like a big awesome splash into the deep end of town.
#558 - Good point, I like the pressure on Dawning.
#570 - Personally, I find this NAI. I'm sure some people disagree with me on this one.
#575 - I like this post quite a bit, though I'm definitely biased. I'm a little surprised at him saying that he doesn't see the amount of fluff as a scumtell, though I think Killjoy overstated what qualifies as fluff.
#581 - I think that this is actually NAI. I agree with the premise, and I like that he's clearly actively thinking about things. But I'm not sure that this isn't just as likely to come from scum.
#600 - Pocketful of Sunshine. A good question at the end, though.
#617 - A lot of questions, most of them good. It feels like real scumhunting and thought.
#660 - Again, a lot of questions, most of them good. It smells like real scumhunting and thought.
#673 - This sounds like he's scumleaning me. But the list is okay. Explanation would be nice.
#689 - It moves like real scumhunting and thought.
#702 - It quacks like real scumhunting and thought.
#743 - I think Grapefruit is most likely a duck, by which I mean town. I don't like his defense of LW here, but it's a series of great posts.
#747 - I don't like the question to Tom, and the first part feels a little pockety, but all-in-all this seems at least half reasonable.
#769 - I'm not sure if I agree on DBS/Wisp, though if put on the spot, I'd guess that they aren't V/V.
#770 - This is either really good, or some good, some bad. I think Grapefruit isn't trying to pocket me? If he is, he's succeeding on some level.
#776 - Huh. I'd do it as either alignment. This is NAI at worst, probably slightly town.
#903 - Not for a second? This sort of sentence makes me really paranoid. Okay on the vote, though, I suppose.
#905 - NAI, I'm thinking.
#911 - Good point.
#1003 - Alex Rodriguez? What does baseball have to do with anything? I like the conviction here.
#1023 - NAI, could be read either way.
#1024 - THANK YOU! Also, the latter two paragraphs are good.
#1044 - Elaborating, and asking for elaboration. NAI at worst, feels town.
#1045 - I think people don't recognize this point enough, and I've certainly been guilty of that as well. Very good post.
#1062 - Nothing here is particularly negative, and I like the first and last bits.
#1063 - Besides, he's not all over the place.
#1064 - I'd probably put Terry and Tom a little higher, not sure on that. I like the positioning of Phoenix, LnGrrrR, DBS, Iso, and LW, at the very least. I like that he's sticking with his convictions on Killjoy.
Lots of good posts. Strong townread, unlikely to move down quickly.
BluesEclipse normally puts in a decent amount of work to his games, so it feels bad, since I'm guessing something's going on, but he's just above scumleans in POE. Looking forward to what Kabazame brings to the table.
I mentioned somewhere earlier in this post that it felt like two people, I think it was Iso and D_V, switched accounts. When reading some of Azrael's posts, it feels like Azrael and Megiddo switched accounts. Oh well, let's get it started:
#39 - Same as LnGrrrR's suggestion, with a partial claim, and a lot of sass. Huh. I don't even know what to say.
#40 - Okay, I guess.
#41 - I get that Az definitely knows what he's doing, but this seems like trying to rile LW up… Not sure what to think about this.
#45, #46 - Hahahaha.
#71 - Okay. I like this post at least a little.
#72 - I like how the really skilled players on this site can make even some of their fluffiest posts look like they're actively progressing the game.
#77 - Not sure about the super short answers, but I like the question here.
#79 - Feels real. Not sure on alignment, but probably NAI at worst in a vacuum.
#83 - This is either super town or super scum…
#84 - I agree, though I wish we were seeing more… I suppose it's a lot for the early game.
#92 - Self-meta (and the jokes) are NAI at best in this post, but I like the feeling of the post as a whole.
#100 - Derp. Azrael's having fun making himself hard to read. I think, like when I do it, it's actually NAI, though we'll see. The questions are probably good.
#127, #128 - Why? Explanation would be very nice.
#174 - Okay, I get what you're putting down.
#372 - I like this reaction. Doesn't hurt that I was also concerned about KJ by this point.
#516 - What? First part is whatever. Second part is decent. Last sentence is uhh…
#560 - I feel like this confidence/arrogance is going to get me WIFOMed into Azrael's craziness. So… Town?
#561 - Uggh. This might or might not be a legit strategy.
#562 - I'm breaking out the Yiddish words beginning with 4 consonants at my computer screen right now.
#608 - *Sigh* It's probably a town line of play.
#672 - Huh. I'm inclined to say that a role that dies to betrayal is probably town. But that's also what Az wants me to think. So NAI?
#674 - I like this post.
#680, #681 - Okay. Not sure on some of these, but I like that he's presenting things with explanations as such.
#697 - Second paragraph starts out with a false premise, but otherwise this post is pretty good.
#698 - I like the attitude.
#699 - Not fooled that easily.
#704 - Seems legit.
#705 - Ehh. NAI, I think.
#715 - I like this reaction.
#740 - I think this "backing off of an act" act is real. Azrael could turn out to be scum later, but I hope not.
#742 - Good pressure in the first part, amusing second part. +Townfeels.
#752 - Ooh. Spicy. Not sure if this is town… I think it is, though.
#753 - I don't think scum!Azrael would be acting this particular part here.
#754 - PFFT at "Proper PBPA" idea. Could go either way on alignment.
#756 - I think this is more likely than not a town post.
#779 - This is also more likely than not a town post.
#780 - We'll see. I'm feeling really paranoid right now, and I don't like it.
#791 - This seems like a good reaction.
#794 - Self-meta is NAI at best. Still wondering about the use of the word "incontinent."
#795 - This feels very genuine. I think Az is probably town.
#890 - Okay, I guess. I don't agree on the Grapefruit vote, but Revolution gives me some good vibes on the LW thoughts.
#981, 983 - NAI confusion about usernames.
#998 - Reasonable thoughts, and I like the emphasis on not modgaming.
I'm roughly at a townlean, with some potential to go either way. There's some good posts, especially recently, but the strategy muddles things up quite a bit. I wonder if I was one of the people that Az intended to catch with this, especially with #699.
I read through this around post #767, and was left with a light townread, if I recall correctly. Before that, I had been at townlean with need for more information. The reread was partially spurred by realizing I had inadvertently skimmed one of Axelrod's posts (#701) without thinking enough about it.
#25 - Iso didn't care for this. I don't have much thought on it other than it's a reasonably good reason to vote Tom, but not necessarily one I'd expect from someone used to Tom.
#28 - Jovialness in RVS is NAI, though it can feel positive to me.
#61 - Partial claim very early on in a relatively nothing post? Hmm.
#67 - Reasonable point. Asking the mod a question is NAI.
#78 - While I don't necessarily agree with the Ally/Ally opinion, and suggesting lists is ehh, the points made here are reasonable.
#91 - Okay… And?
#104 - Explanation would be nice. Otherwise, well, I didn't really feel one way or the other on Terry + Azrael. I'm not sure that Terry could make a post like #53 in the case that Terry + Azrael was a thing, though. That said, outside of Russian Roulette, it's been a while since I've been in a game with Terry, so make of that what you will.
#375, #402 - I like where Axel's mind seems to be going on the majority if not all of these points/questions.
#418 - More mindmeld at this point, especially in regards to his point on Shinichi.
#441 - Good point on Lastwhisper, followed by very reasonable concerns and questions to LnGrrrR and myself.
#485 - /barn on Killjoy's post. Phoenix is mostly null to me, though that may change after a more thorough ISO. I see where he's coming from on LW's vote.
#494 - Reasonable question in that figuring out what Killjoy was referring to was buried in a long post from D_V responding to a long post from Killjoy.
#615 - Most of this is NAI to me, or slightly town. Not sure how I feel about his thoughts on Dawning here, mostly because I'm not 100% sure how I feel about Dawning at the moment.
#616 - I like that he's townreading based on unintentional mindmeld.
#619 - Inherently NAI.
#701 - This was the post I had skimmed over the first time(s) I read it. Not only is there some mindmeld for me, the post is well-written and well-thought-out.
#703 - Inherently NAI.
#712 - Maintaining pressure on LnGrrrR, though I don't like that he hasn't changed his vote yet.
#784 - Reasonable, though I'm a little tired of people kvetching about the number of posts in the game.
#785 - Oh boy! (NAI, any town vibes that this could give are erased since he apparently isn't doing it.)
#977 - I came at the situation from a different angle, but this post feels very genuine.
#980, 988 - I'm very ehh here. I like the pressure on Dawning, but I dislike that this could just be rolefishing.
#992 - Yeah, I was just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
#993 - Important catch.
#995 - Mindmeld.
There are some bits that I don't like here and there, but for the most part, he seems rather town. Light townread, unlikely to drop.
@Axelrod: Could you elaborate a bit on your thoughts on Terry and Az from #104? Why haven't you changed your vote from Tom at this point?
After 1200, I see a lot of flailing from Dawning. I was keeping up to a degree, and have expressed my thoughts there. I think it's appropriate to leave her in scumleans given the circumstances. If she's not having fun, she should replace out, if she's okay, then she should not try to be annoying to people. The "gamethrowing" accusations are incredibly bad form.
Killjoy has posted 11 posts. I liked his question on Axel. I like a lot of the following longer post as well, though he's defensive at several spots. Not too bad on the hedging front, though. I want to hear his defense of Dawning, that sounds interesting. Some amount of setup gaming… I think that's okay. I liked his questioning to me on LnGrrrR too. Outside of myself and Tom, I'm in relative agreement, and I can accept the Tom read based on who it's reading. I don't completely agree with the "Have not been lurking" because, well, int(800/17) = 47, which is significantly greater than 11, and not all of these posts were particularly valuable contributions. I like that he's sticking by his convictions on the tunnel on me, although I kinda still feel that he's not considering the whole picture. #2008 could go either way. I'm inclined to say BLEH, but I think it might actually not be unreasonable. I'm moving Killjoy up to null, with possibility of going in either direction.
LnGrrrR hasn't been great, but his frustrated defense felt really good, as mentioned by Azrael. Moving to Null.
Kabazame posted a single catchup post. I like some of their thinking, but I want to see more! Null for now, I guess. *Grumble*
Town!Phoenix is still one of the towniest of townie towns to ever townily town in town.
Jenna has been significantly less cryptic, and I like the past/present comment for catchup. Moving to Light Townread.
I still like Grapefruit as a Strong Townread.
Shinichi can stay where they are, or move up, even. They've been working hard and well this game. Moving to Light Townread.
Tom can stay where he is.
Megiddo needs to post more. Moving to Null.
I like Iso's effort and poking. His worst posts are not even so bad, after the gamebreak. Moving to Light Townread.
Azrael has been relatively useless, a phrase I thought I never would say. Moving to Null.
Terry has been putting good pressure and a lot of his reactions seem very organic and unlikely to come from scum. Moving to Light Townread.
HEYO! Another one! Axelrod is awesome. Moving to Strong Townread.
Lastwhisper is… not great. Actually, due to his answers to my questionnaire, I kinda feel like Dawning should be scumleaning/scumreading Last given her answer to question E: "or if he knows how useful it is, he will answer in a way that will contradict with my given answers, to throw me in a bad light..and he's been obsessed over that for a while." I'm moving Lastwhisper to Light Scumread.
I've scumread or at least tinfoiled D_V every game except for Maelstrom of Alara. I'm hoping it's just a personality/playstyle thing here, as it has been at times in the past, but I'm not sure. I thought we had gotten past this. I guess not. Moving to Null with a disgusted and regretful *sigh*.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Readlist, mk 2:
Confirmed Town:
Osieorb18
Strong Townread:
Axelrod
Grapefruit
Phoenix
Light Townread:
Iso
Jenna
Shinichi
Terry
Tomsloger
Townlean:
Null:
Azrael
D_V
Kabazame
Killjoy
LnGrrrR
Megiddo
Inactive:
Scumlean:
Dawning
Light Scumread:
Lastwhisper
Strong Scumread:
~~~~~~~~~~
HOWEVER, that leaves me with less than 4 people in my POE for scum. So out of the null pile, who am I most concerned about? Well, I'll just figure out an order for them:
I think that Megiddo and LnGrrrR are really almost townleans at this point, though Megiddo could certainly do things either way to drop down in my reads. If Kabazame posts, I suspect he will move up in my reads, though he needs to post well; I really hate the whole "replace in and then do nothing" action.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
A 2000 post D1 with... like a week left is insane.
Fair. I mostly just wanted to point out that in fact, saying you were relatively inactive was not wholly wrong. It's not really hugely alignment indicative, to me at least, as long as you're still posting reasonably well (as either alignment)
Like, exactly 24 hours ago was your post on LnGrrR. It was post 1725. There have been 300 post in the past 24 hours.
Should everyone be making 20 posts a day, or be considered lurking or what?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
If you're answer to my question about another roleblocker was:
"I was just WIFOMing scum"
I would have bought it. Instead you said:
Quote from DBS »
this: "I'm sure mafia have some intercepting ability"
I'm sure they have some kind of ability to nullify the vigshot. either ability, or some are immune to vigshots. it would be too easy to make me the only vig + roleblocker, since I would be able to shoot safely, knowing I'm the only interceptor.
I bluff a lot, but my answer there was real. you wanted a sincere answer and I gave it.
I like you and really hope you keep playing here, so please don't take this personal, but you can't be alive in this game anymore. I really hope you are scum and I'll feel really bad if you are town, but I'm locked in.
why again? even if I was scum, don't you think you're just falling into a trap, being so focused on me? you're trying to catch a team, not a person. ok. I hope you feel bad, very bad. who cares if I'm just shaming town or whatever, because I am. this town is hopeless.
If you are town, this town is hopeless because of you. Your actions. Not the town
this game is a collective action, ive stated this before, you can not put a mislynch solely on the player, dont try to push the blame away, it will be 50/50 blame wise. also whats with you and these walls of text, then proclaiming vote lock?
I like you and really hope you keep playing here, so please don't take this personal, but you can't be alive in this game anymore. I really hope you are scum and I'll feel really bad if you are town, but I'm locked in. this train of thought is bad, and it confirms that this tunnel is unhealthy...
Like, exactly 24 hours ago was your post on LnGrrR. It was post 1725. There have been 300 post in the past 24 hours.
Should everyone be making 20 posts a day, or be considered lurking or what?
This was 24 hours spread out over the past several days, since you made #1036, at 10:02 PM on Sunday, 10/29.
Like, exactly 24 hours ago was your post on LnGrrR. It was post 1725. There have been 300 post in the past 24 hours.
Should everyone be making 20 posts a day, or be considered lurking or what?
This was 24 hours spread out over the past several days, since you made #1036, at 10:02 PM on Sunday, 10/29.
But yeah, 1000 posts in the past 4 days is absurd.
I don't think the tells I'm seeing from her now would be easily faked. And if her role functions as described, some amount of confusion is not unthinkable.
*thinks* vote jenna. I don't see any good reason for the self imposed, detached posting style.
thats such a bad vote change, like shes been kind of awkward, but nothing scummy? and not likeing her playstyle does not equal to her being scum...
@Iso: Reads I'm inclined to agree on are marked with a $, reads I'm unsure on are marked with a ?, and reads I'm inclined to disagree on are marked with an X. ^ means higher, v means lower.
? Azrael
$ Axelrod
? Grapefruit
$ Phoenix
? JoeTerry
?$ Shin
?X^ DV
$ Megiddo
?Xv dawn
?X^ tom
?$ LnGrR
$ Kabazame/BluesEclipse
$ Killjoy
X^ osi
?$ LW
$ Jenna
All-in-all, mostly cash money. I would certainly appreciate reasons, especially on the ones I'm unsure on or disagree with, but on everyone would be nice.
Someone explain to me how this mindset is town:
"I want to post a reads list, but lets make people decode it first."
Can you go into more detail, Osie? About your read on LnGrrR I mean?
Sure, I suppose. *Sets Shinichi's ISO back down again with a sigh*
From the start, I don't care for LnGrrrR's "Ally"-only idea. That in and of itself wouldn't be damning, but the way it's presented is also strange. He starts off with this ultimatum-like post from the very beginning. LnGrrrR then goes on to talk about townies suiciding. Now, again, that in and of itself looks bad, but not the worst. But, again, the way it's presented is strange. I feel I could make a similar argument in favor of self-voting, which is decidedly not good town behavior in most contexts. The LW vote could be mostly or even entirely RVS. Liking Terry as of post #85 feels weird to me; at that point in the game, the only Terry bit that I actively liked is the first part of #69. There was some null, and a lot I didn't like. LnGrrrR then doubles down on the suicide angle, and questions Grapefruit in a manner that raised red flags to me, and despite his explanation, which I suppose I could somewhat trust, I'm not sure if those flags are likely to lower. The use of the word "townslip" looks bad, and doesn't make much sense, as scum already know who town is, and town wouldn't be looking for a slip from town. I think the mechanics discussion in the "townslip" post is of questionable value at best. Skipping over a bit which is meh, but doesn't stand out... We have a BP claim? Why? It's so early!
I don't think that LnGrrrR's #289 comes naturally as a wolf-on-wolf interaction, so that's something interesting, given that LW has not been the greatest at several points throughout the game. I don't want to force my reads into an artificial dichotomy that isn't there, though, so I'm not inclined to rule out the possibility. Oh, and I dislike how LnGrrrR ignored LW's declared third option in this post. LnGrrrR's #341 is a bit... I hesitate to use the word "flaily," but "scrambling," I guess? LnGrrrR's #363 has a weird contrast between KJ and Grapefruit. LnGrrrR's #579 feels really angleshooty, and I don't like it. Then we have #582, which feels like rolefishing, even coming to it separate from the other people in the thread throwing around such accusations.
LnGrrrR's #623 comes across as cornered scum to me. Maybe I'm wearing red-tinted lenses at this point, but nothing about this outrage screams legit town. Then #690 is baffling. "I can't make anyone betray..." He's been saying the whole game that he wants to set things up so people won't betray, and then he turns around and says this?!? And #759 feels awful, to the point where it almost starts to spill over onto Shinichi. In #1046, there's a random snipe at Grapefruit, and some frustration that looks like it could go either way. And the first part of #1054 feels like it comes from scum coaching Dawn, regardless of Dawn's alignment.
LnGrrrR's other posts are some level of NAI to me (NAI, NAI at worst, or NAI at best), and there are a handful which I do like. A few that stand out: #345 had a nice attitude, #572 was nice, quick, pressure without anyone else involved ahead of time, #755 had a lot which I thought was incorrect, but I liked where it was coming from.
Out of the people whose ISOs I have reread (all up to post 1200, so take that with a grain of salt), I would put LnGrrrR at the bottom, followed by Killjoy, though I think Killjoy has more potential to move up out of scumleans. I still have yet to really sit down and do a thorough read-through of Tom and LW (I did a read-through at least twice much earlier this game, but it's been a while), but in media res rather than ISO'd, my senses were screaming scum for LW, and town for Tom. Dawning's ISO is full of scumtells, but I think that her frustration feels more newish!town or foreign!town. That's not to say that she's an incompetent newb or anything of the sort, but I think that she's dug herself into a mislynch hole that she's not likely to get out of without members of town being considerate for that. Maybe I'm just tripping myself up, but I don't think so. Shinichi's ISO is very long, mostly because of the catchup posts. But I kinda like/deserve/don't mind that, and I've found that he's putting in good effort throughout.
This is a lot of words for a scumread you're 'just now comfortable having':
Can the people who I'm town reading in here start a wagon so I can join it.
Because if a mass day vig was a thing I'd kill like every poster that has been posting for the last hour.
Don't know if you're still town reading me, but I'm relatively comfortable at this point on:
Vote: LnGrrrR
Let me decipher that LnGrrR post:
Scum things:
*Ally Only idea presented strangely
*ultimatum like post in very beginning
*town suiciding idea presented strangely but not the worst
*liking Terry (at that point in the game)
*"a lot" I didn't like"
*doubles down on suicide angle
*questions to Grapefruit
*use of the word "townslip" (Thats just not true, but whatever)
*ignored LW's third option
*341 is scrambly
*363 has weird contrast between me and GF
*579 is angleshooty
*582 is rolefishing
*623 is cornered scum.*690 is baffling
*759 is awful and almost spills into Shin.
*1046 is a random snipe at GF
*1054 is coaching Dawn
Not scum things:
*first bit on Terry in 69
*Stuff with Whisper is not wolf/wolf, but you don't want to force yourself into an artificial dichotomy, but 'not ruling it out'.
*345 has a nice attitude
*572 has nice quick pressure without anyone else involved ahead of time
*liked where 755 was coming from
You've been scumleaning him for... quite a bit of time. Why are you just now "confortable" with voting him?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Osie Screw it. I've given most of an ISO on the first half of the game on Dawn, and my thoughts there are pretty much that I wouldn't mind a lynch because of anti-town, but I'm not convinced that she is in fact scum."
"After 1200, I see a lot of flailing from Dawning. I was keeping up to a degree, and have expressed my thoughts there. I think it's appropriate to leave her in scumleans given the circumstances. If she's not having fun, she should replace out, if she's okay, then she should not try to be annoying to people. The "gamethrowing" accusations are incredibly bad form."
what do you think of DV pushing my lynch, was he bussing? if you say DV could be town while Dawn is scum, what do you think of his theory that scum won't have a scummy role?
why do you put LnG in neutral for trying to pull a hate-lynch on me? that was bad form as well, AtE even.
I'm sure the BP system has more to it than just "Betray scum, Ally town". LnG's claim doesn't match up to his stance, since he should've kept quiet about it and wait for the first AB game/lies to set in, and reveal his results ALONG with his role. he also never gave his title, only said he was some character. there was nothing that said he was TOWN.
//thinks//
I'm annoying since...I'm annoying. having fun in this game of course, since I can 'flail around and waste the Day phase'.
if town is smart, it will force itself to look away from this 'bad town being pushed' or 'scum who's wasting our time' and do something more productive~ instead, I've been forced to fullclaim, and kept as the center of attention and a possible threat. can't blame me for saying this town is hopeless. lol
no wait.. a better way of phrazing it.. is that the scumteam is really putting effort into this. I sincerely admire the efforts of one team, and I hope the other team is up to the challenge. I'm just being tossed around in this town where every man is for himself~ I'm a strong role and somewhat able to do this, so why not try to sort my mess of a team? I love a good challenge. my way of enjoyment might come off badly, but I genuinely am trying to help. no strings attached
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
A 2000 post D1 with... like a week left is insane.
Yeah, how do you think it feels to replace into this mess? lol
I'm not going to lie, I still have like 20 pages to slog through. I haven't had a lot of time, and a lot of these posts aren't easy to read. Not only that, the game is still moving pretty quick so it takes me a while to read the new posts, let alone going back!
Anyway, I think LnGrrR's claim makes sense with his opening post. He did say "Btw, if you betray I am going to assume you are scum unless you note the reasons publicly, ahead of time. I will be paying attention.", the last line especially seems like he has some way of knowing if people betray or not. I suppose the role could be scum, but I haven't read him as scum outside of that.
Osie I still think is very shady. He gave up the Lngrr thing really quick and I don't really feel like he's actually scum hunting. I'll try to prepare a more detailed analysis of this but basically I'm seeing a lot of faked activity and it doesn't seem right.
I thought Phoenix(?) made a great point about LW trying to sell that Iso/DBS thing. I kind of think DBS and Iso are both town and he was assuming a DBS lynch today and setting up Iso for tomorrow. Of the two leading wagons I prefer LW but I think more people should look at Osie
I tend to make my reads based on reactions to my own posts, so it's been quite a struggle to get my footing while being so far behind :/
[b][color=green]@Killjoy: You seen the (at least mostly) full moon over California tonight? Gorgeous. Anyways, either before or after you answer my questions in the huge post, could you also talk more on your thoughts on Terry, Tom, D_V, and Lastwhisper? I'm also interested in your input on the D_V question I asked of Tom in post #1924.
[b][color=green]@Iso:[/color][/b] I am also interested in your input on the D_V question in #1924.
@Killjoy: You seen the (at least mostly) full moon over California tonight? Gorgeous. Anyways, either before or after you answer my questions in the huge post, could you also talk more on your thoughts on Terry, Tom, D_V, and Lastwhisper? I'm also interested in your input on the D_V question I asked of Tom in post #1924.
@Iso: I am also interested in your input on the D_V question in #1924.[/quote]
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I scumread those who jumped on me after claiming, since going after a PR when there are so many who haven't claimed is really scummy. I mentioned that before lel.. using my claim to fish, more or less.
my theory is..they're just pushing all the obvious (surface) scumreads here and there, and let the others go in for the kill. for this, I would say Grapefruit - who pushed my claim - and Jenna - who tried to push Shinichi. Megiddo especially hasn't posted much, so he could be the reserve for endgame.
I think that is pretty muddied by how you went about claiming.
Like, I thought you were town all along until the claim amd surrounding fiasco.
Basically, why wouldn't other townies jump on you? I think it was reasonable.
well, that's because I hate claiming. I wouldn't be claiming if I can, for some revenge on that week of interrogation, hold town hostage lol. I have my selfish moments. then again, at least it took a week of pressure for me to throw a tantrum, compared to LnG who flamed and hated after just one moment of being the lead train. maybe I have more patience than most, and cannot imagine the limitations a normal person can take.
yes I will admit it, I lashed out after a week of defending myself. is that wrong? I actually put up with a week of bull*****, and that is very generous already. moreover, I was forced to claim when I only softclaimed along with saying I hate claims. I have the right to be frustrated and give town, scum included, a taste of their own medicine. (so yeah, I'm a *****.) what you think of me is not what the collective town thinks of me.
of course. scum just has to pressure and point out some scummy things, and it is warranted. just because someone is scummy doesn't mean they're scum, it just means their defense is weak. you need to look beyond the weak defenses into the motives of both sides.
and that is my problem with this town.. they cannot see beyond what the scumteam gives them, on a golden platter.
quote ~ "if everything is thinking the same thing, then someone isn't thinking."
again, if someone is scummy it doesn't mean they are scum. it just means the scumteam knows how to push buttons. this is just a game and there is no right or wrong way to play it. I really detest that mindset.
1. (#876)
2. (#908)
3. (#979)
4. (#1122)
Ok, so I just fired off four separate occasions where you talked about the fear of being role blocked. Don't go into this pity mode that this town is stupid and contradict yourself like this.
I just can't deal with all your contradictions anymore.
UNVOTE, VOTE: Dawningbluesky
I like you and really hope you keep playing here, so please don't take this personal, but you can't be alive in this game anymore. I really hope you are scum and I'll feel really bad if you are town, but I'm locked in.
If you're answer to my question about another roleblocker was:
"I was just WIFOMing scum"
I would have bought it. Instead you said:
I have played with Last on a separate team before, though it was a game of alliances and not mafia, and his playstyle was just as...annoying(?) as his town playstyle. it's not like I have 0 experience of playing on the opposing side, but I haven't seen an actual scumgame from him in a traditional setup. Shinichi can vouch for that.
"You keep mentioning the Lylo game as a reason for trust but have accused Shin of carrying over negative bias from previous games."
1. trust does carry over, and you acknowledge that. to refresh your memory....
[here: TLDR: He [Last] carried over trust from a hydra game (which often comes from town players after they play together with extra information) and didn't try to abuse it at all through now. Him actually forgetting I had a town read on him this page just further strengthens the read.]
whether I should trust or distrust any player is my choice to make. trying to control how players read the game is scummy.
2. is it normal for town to be so hardup about one person? Shinichi's focus on me has been distracting the town. maybe..he is scum? at this point of his questioning, it is just not normal. tell me how it's normal.
3. you didn't pressure me? then why did you vote me? don't say it was just a 'join the easy wagon' now, that is scummy lol
Be grateful, always."
why again? even if I was scum, don't you think you're just falling into a trap, being so focused on me? you're trying to catch a team, not a person. ok. I hope you feel bad, very bad. who cares if I'm just shaming town or whatever, because I am. this town is hopeless.
Be grateful, always."
[thoughts]
Iso might be town. I like his questions. I'm not going to be willing to lynch him today.
DV, despite being on my ass all day, has had good reactions to Dawn's postings, and is also probably town.
Az is usually better at figuring out my alignment. Also Az is the only one who's brought up the possibility of a neutral being in this game.
Dawn is town because her entire game has been not in concert with literally anyone. That would include the scum. I can't see Dawn being part of any scumteam, where she works with other people to achieve a common goal of survival and lynching townies.
Tom does seem agendaless, which frankly worries me. Following Powerwolf Tom in Low Fantasy, this polar behavior is something that's weird. Maybe he's just finally town though. *shrug*
LnGrrR might be scum. I need to ISO him because his preoccupation with betrayals and such makes sense given his role. On the other hand, I'm wondering if that's his whole role. He's currently like a limited lie cop which is worse than Tracker.
Osie is still scum.
I'm seriously wondering if Whisper is scum. His playstyle is kind of just abrasive and naturally scummy so all the scum signs I've seen are likely just playstyle based. Going to have to dig deeper into this slot.
I agree with whoever said Jenna staying current while still catching up was a good thing. That would be hard to do as scum, and therefore earns a townlean.
I still kinda think Terry might be town but I'm beginning to doubt my read on him.
[/thoughts]
Also @DV Never actually dropped the scum!Osie thing. Did you not notice my questioning Osie recently about his thoughts on LnGrrR? I think they might be aligned.
Be grateful, always."
I don't think the tells I'm seeing from her now would be easily faked. And if her role functions as described, some amount of confusion is not unthinkable.
*thinks* vote jenna. I don't see any good reason for the self imposed, detached posting style.
If Osie is scum we can eliminate like 6 people off the bad probably (3 for sure 3 probably)
Working on deciphering Osie's LnGrrR post but first, lunch.
I have to keep mentioning you when I talk about Wisp because his game is so centered on you. His game revolves around you almost entirely.
I was pointing out that was a bad thing to do but giving a town read because it seemed to be a subtle subconscious thing. I only gave him town credit for it because he seemed to be softly giving me more credit than he should. Also and most importantly I was a wolf trying to pocket him by town reading him while pointing out that I hadn't earned that trust!!! Whereas in your mutual town reads it seems to be an active choice and a much harder read. Also that debate is unrelated to my point that you claiming carrying trust over is okay, but saying that carrying mistrust over isn't is hypocritical. I'm not making a value statement of my own. I'm pointing out an inconsistency (admittedly a minor one) between your two stances. My opinion doesn't matter here because you're contradicting yourself.
Town tunnels. It happens. I can point you to almost any of my town games ever. Scum also tunnels. I can point you to any of my scum games ever.
Now you're misrepresenting what I said. I pressured you. But I don't believe I called for you to claim. I thought you were scum and wanted to lynch you. Stop twisting my words. That whole post mentioned your inconsistencies not to paint you as scum, but to open your eyes and get you to reset on Wisp. Which you sorely need to do. Or at least explain why you're town reading him in detail.
checked Jenna ISO and it's weird.. can't read.
Be grateful, always."
I have tried to be as informative as I can recently, and you behave like the game is already lost? town is hopeless, but it isn't lost. I am not the reason town is hopeless, since I've tried to help it, but they just refuse to look at what I'm trying to do now that..yes, it really is hopeless.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
@G21
"I have to keep mentioning you when I talk about Wisp because his game is so centered on you. His game revolves around you almost entirely."
you always direct your points towards me, not Last, to be scum. who are you even talking to? and well, the entire game of this entire town revolves around me. you're just being dramatic~ I hate hate hate hate hate hate that the reason you scumread me is because Last(presumed town to you) trusts me. that is so biased, even more biased than his trust towards me.
"I was pointing out that was a bad thing to do but giving a town read because it seemed to be a subtle subconscious thing. I only gave him town credit for it because he seemed to be softly giving me more credit than he should. Also and most importantly I was a wolf trying to pocket him by town reading him while pointing out that I hadn't earned that trust!!! Whereas in your mutual town reads it seems to be an active choice and a much harder read. Also that debate is unrelated to my point that you claiming carrying trust over is okay, but saying that carrying mistrust over isn't is hypocritical. I'm not making a value statement of my own. I'm pointing out an inconsistency (admittedly a minor one) between your two stances. My opinion doesn't matter here because you're contradicting yourself."
you defend yourself so hard. you must be scum. just kidding~ now you will scumread me for being so OMGUSy. oh hey.. you got so worked up replying me so that means you're scum too. you're just contradicting yourself...as well!
I'm saying that carrying trust over from a Lylo game is understandable. anyone will see the reason why, but you don't see it..because you REFUSE to see it. I never mentioned carrying over mistrust, only that Shinichi is gamethrowing by scumreading me...he doesn't mistrust me, he's just holding a grudge.
"Town tunnels. It happens. I can point you to almost any of my town games ever. Scum also tunnels. I can point you to any of my scum games ever."
DV and Iso had a more genuine tunnel than Shinichi. I don't believe Shinichi is tunneling on me by mistake, it is deliberate. the more someone interacts with me, the more I can see their intentions - and Shinichi's intentions come from the reason to annoy.
"Now you're misrepresenting what I said. I pressured you. But I don't believe I called for you to claim. I thought you were scum and wanted to lynch you. Stop twisting my words. That whole post mentioned your inconsistencies not to paint you as scum, but to open your eyes and get you to reset on Wisp. Which you sorely need to do. Or at least explain why you're town reading him in detail. "
twisting your words? aren't you twisting my words just the same. why did you vote me?
how open can my eyes get lol. if you want me to reset my read on Last, why do you have to say "Dawn could be scum trying to pocket Last, and I played with him before"? doesn't look like you're trying to reset MY perspective. I can read by gut feeling. what's so bad about it?
you're just deep in the tunnel because you're scum in the dark shadows.
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
Be grateful, always."
My only concern here is why scum would ever fake claim role blocker.
damn...
Be grateful, always."
//facedesks//
Be grateful, always."
Shinichi's posting mostly screams town, I'll finish an ISO eventually, but for now I'm going to put him at townlean, with some chance of movement.
LW's posting is mixed. Way too much defensiveness leads me to believe scum, but I like some things that he's said. I'll start an ISO eventually, but for now I'm going to put him at scumlean, with a decent chance of moving up.
I gave my normal ISO on D_V in this post, which ties in with the rest of these, below. I'll finish that "unknown" ISO eventually.
@Killjoy, you wanted a list, well here's the reasoning:
I want to start off by saying that I normally never trust D_V or Terry. But I guess this game is different, for once. Anyways…
#33 - RVS. NAI.
#34, #35, #38 - Inherently NAI.
#50, 52 - Setup gaming. Uggh. NAI at best.
#53, 54 - I wish there was more content from Terry, but I guess it is early.
#56 - I extremely dislike this post. A lot of people have talked about it, but this just looks really bad.
#60 - So it's purely a meta read? *Sigh* Especially because meta reads are less useful on Tom.
#63 - Okay question if he doesn't know. NAI at worst.
#69 - I actually like the LW stuff. I don't like the later part.
#70 - Why are you so defensive yourself?
#73, 74 - Such a quick jump to defensive buddying. Not sure I agree.
#81 - NAI explanation.
#82 - That's still not much…
#86 - Oh boy. Feeling like this could go either way.
#87 - I actually like this paranoia.
#90 - Good point.
#94 - This feels overly defensive.
#95 - It's just "I'm town." Uggh.
#97 - Polite, but NAI.
#99 - NAI at best, setup gaming.
#103 - This explanation is okay, I guess.
#107 - Overly defensive.
#122 - Defensive, setup gaming.
#124 - Sometimes I like this, sometimes I don't. Here I'm inclined not to like it.
#130 - NAI at best.
#132 - What even is this interaction?
#133 - I don't think dichotomies should be assumed to be scum attempts to chain mislynches.
#136 - Inherently NAI.
#139 - I can't believe I'm the one saying this, but lack of confidence, much?
#141 - This could come from either alignment.
#144 - Meh. NAI.
#147 - Arrogance, followed by complete lack of self-awareness. Yuck.
#159 - Lazy. Probably NAI.
#162 - Reasonable response. Still probably NAI.
#163, 181 - Defensive, but potentially reasonable.
#186 - Indignant, not great, not the worst.
#198 - This is good, solid reasoning and effort.
#208 - Seems legit.
#209 - Probably NAI. Not sure where I want to place this.
#211 - I like this indignant attitude here.
#230 - This feels genuine.
#379 - Very accurate.
#380 - Good. Be done with it. Thank you.
#385 - Umm… Didn't read as sarcasm. But okay… If you say so. Last point sounds a bit garbled.
#387 - Arrogance, but probably NAI.
#388 - Good point.
#396 - I like this questioning of Jenna.
#399 - This question is a good choice.
#411 - Okay. My bad.
#424 - I like it.
#428 - NAI, Jenna's posts are frustrating at times.
#462 - NAI, reasonable explanation.
#464 - NAI, okay question.
#487 - This seems like genuine outrage.
#490 - Inherently NAI.
#499 - These are pretty good answers.
#500 - NAI, reasonable explanation.
#567 - I like this, though that's probably not a good thing.
#632, 635 - NAI, okay question.
#638, 639 - I think I like these posts. Maybe.
#647, 648 - I like these questions.
#722 - The question is very good. The first part is just a /barn, which in context is NAI, I think.
#723 - I was feeling the exact same way around this time.
#738 - I like some of this, though the way it's presented is… unusual. I'm at least a bit intrigued by that, though.
#744 - I laughed. NAI at worst, I think.
#746 - Again, this resonates for me as a concern I had, though in my case it was really more focused on Dawning. I like this, even if it's not the towniest of posts.
#953 - Thank you! NAI at worst, slight town feel.
#959 - I'm not opposed to this idea…
#960 - +Townfeels because it's a very legitimate point.
#987 - Reasonable response, though a little smarmy at the beginning. Overall, though, +Townfeels.
#1029 - NAI at worst, slight town feel.
#1103 - These are very good reads, even if I don't agree with all of them.
#1110 - I have to ponder this, but my thoughts were going in a similar direction, and I'm inclined to believe this as town.
#1113 - I like this pressure. I think I don't know Terry well enough to be absolutely sure that this is a town post, but I'm leaning town here.
#1119 - This, I think, is more likely to come from town!Terry.
#1120 - Meh. Could go either way.
#1121 - Ehh, everyone was confused about the claim.
#1123 - This is sickly sweet. I don't really want to read into this, and I think it's not completely unreasonable to just put it at NAI.
#1128 - Umm… Not reading your role isn't great, but the latter point is a good one.
#1132 - Yeah, it looked bad anyways, but I think Iso might be in the clear at least on that one.
#1163, 1170 - Discussion of Role PM. Uggh.
#1172 - I mean, a contradiction just creates a WIFOM situation.
#1181 - This seems bad… like, really bad. I get that the claim sucked, but this is painful to read.
#1183 - Discussion of Role PM. Uggh.
#1188, 1189 - Um… I guess this is NAI. Maybe. I don't like it.
Some really gross stuff at the end there with Dawning, and not a good start, but a decent number of solid posts. Townlean.
Phoenix has been rather weird for me throughout. Like, on the one hand, my gut feeling is that he's probably town, but on the other hand, the amount he is thinking about the game seems to fluctuate. Even with that, most of his posts are pretty good.
#23 - RVS on Killjoy. NAI.
#48 - Not much to see here. NAI.
#49 - Partial claim? What?! This feels way too early, though I guess it depends on the role.
#62 - I kinda like this reasoning, though a little more explanation here would have been nice.
#101 - And here's the explanation. I liked this enough to carry some suspicion for Terry along for quite a while.
#106 - This is a very good point. +Townfeels.
#183 - Clarification on Terry is good, Dawning question is good, Osie question is NAI, LnGrrrR question is good.
#187 - Okay. I'm fine with this.
#191 - I don't completely agree; opportunism at 1 vote out of 9 is pretty extreme. This is a reasonable question, but could come from either town or scum motivations.
#194, 196 - Mindmeld. Thank you for these questions!
#207 - Maintaining pressure on Terry.
#210 - Sure? Given the nature of the partial claim I'm not totally opposed to this reasoning.
#227 - This left me chuckling. I like it. Close to NAI, one way or another.
#370 - Okay. Relying on self-meta for D_V is ehh, but the first sentence here is more likely to come from town.
#376 - Good post. Lastwhisper's point was strange.
#378 - I think this is a satisfactory answer, actually. I understand Jenna's later complaint though, as I can see why someone would read this as contradictory.
#442 - I like the look of Phoenix's swagger here, though complaining about not being able to keep up isn't great.
#503 - I like the implication of a case-by-case analysis.
#504 - You can read Jenna's posts? What?!
Instant townread… I mean, NAI.#514 - It gave me the creeps and I was part of it. Vote is good.
#613 - NAI at worst, townfeels for indignant questioning.
#614 - Catchup question. Seems okay.
#709 - This kinda comes out of nowhere. I don't agree on everything here, and I'm particularly not sure about Grape being the GOAT Town.
#713 - I like it when people push other people to participate. +Townfeels.
#714 - I mean, it's just speculation, but if you allow for it, then you can allow yourself to put a higher number of active people comfortably into townreads. Mostly NAI post, though. I don't like the second part.
#719 - NAI or town.
#906 - This post made me laugh, and I support its premise.
#923 - Good pressure on a good target.
#924 - Inherently NAI.
#1069 - /barn (Yeah, I didn't get this either) /semi-barn (Well, LnGrrrR's post still isn't great, but isn't the worst) /barn (I'm considering that…) /barn (Yep) /barn (Flips are huh?)
#1143 - Inherently NAI.
#1146 - That point on Iso is a good one. Indecision at this point does make some sense; I'm kinda feeling it too.
#1149 - Huh. I didn't see just how bad that post from Dawning was. This is a good point.
#1151, 1152, 1155 - This is why you don't setup game… Good reaction in #1155, though.
I didn't realize just how much I liked Phoenix's posts. Strong Townread, unlikely to go down any time soon.
@Phoenix: Why so extremely positive on Grapefruit?
#515 - It feels really unfortunate that Megs started so late.
#781 - This post could come from either town or scum. I'm inclined with Meg to believe that it's a slight towntell, because I think as scum he'd not even bother to display confusion.
#782 - NAI, though I was amused.
#783 - I laugh probably a little too much every time I read this post. NAI.
#830 - This is quite reasonable for not reading the whole game.
#846 - I didn't care for LW's post either.
#901 - Again, I like this post mostly just because I agree on some level.
#913 - This sort of pressure seems more likely to come from town.
#917 - NAI.
#918 - Same thought as with 913.
#945 - Reasonable question to me.
Megs has a few townie posts, some NAI. I want to see more effort, and I certainly could see him as scum depending on future posts, or lack thereof, but I'm leaning town just based on his current posts.
LnGrrrR is viscerally suspicious to me, but I think part of that is just not knowing him very well. Let's see…
#6 - A lot of people have talked about this, but the way this comes off is pretty bad. I think if he presented this as a full argument it would have been better. The vote is seemingly RVS; NAI.
#9 - Inherently NAI.
#75 - I really don't like this. This is like promoting self-votes.
#85 - Reasoning would be nice. The claim argument is WIFOMing the hell out of me, so it's probably NAI.
#110 - Doubling down on the suicide angle. Uggh. I mentioned already that I didn't care for the question here.
#116 - Sounds about right.
#171 - Reasonable questions here. I don't like the reasoning for GF, but the fact that it is an answer is something.
#254 - I don't like the use of the word "townslip" here. Besides it sounding scummy, what does it even mean? Scum already know who is town… Do you mean that you think that he did a super towntell? If so, why? The mechanics element is dubious but NAI.
#267 - I mean, I was, but sure. This defensive post could come from either alignment. The comment towards GF is overly cryptic.
#274 - The reasoning isn't great. The setup gaming is NAI at best.
#279 - Okay, partial claim…
#289 - I don't like how he just ignored LW's third option. On the other hand, I don't think that this interaction is W/W, so that's something.
#340 - I get where he's going with this, and I think it's more likely a town reasoning than not, but I think it might be overly simplistic, or just wrong, as well.
#341 - I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, most of the points look reasonable. On the other hand, it feels kinda like scrambling.
#342 - I think this is legitimate. NAI or slight town.
#345 - I like this "I've got a plan!" attitude, come to think of it.
#347 - Sure, this is probably genuine.
#363 - Besides the point that is just false of both choosing betrayal being negative instead of null, this also has the weird contrast on KJ and Grapefruit that someone else mentioned. I'm overall not enthused by this post, even if there's some good bits.
#470 - Bleh. NAI at best.
#572 - I'm biased, but this pressure seems good. And it wasn't after anyone else saying the same, which is a good sign.
#579 - Angleshooty. Meh.
#582 - Pushing for a claim here, though I agree that 520 is not good.
#609, #611 - What? Not as bad as later on when Iso did something similar with the CC, but #609 is dubious. Maybe this is town.
#612 - Yuck. Not that the post it was responding to was great either.
#623 - Starting from at least a scumlean as of this post for certain.
#688 - I'm pretty meh on LnGrrrR at this point… I think this is NAI at best.
#690 - "can't make anyone betray" - What?! What?! Uggh.
#700 - NAI at worst, possibly good.
#706 - Pseudo readlist. Explanations would be nice. Also, something about being overly cautious here comes to mind.
#755 - I like this post, even if parts of it are wrong.
#759 - This feels like blatant open wolfchat. On a sidepoint, I'm also almost inclined to scumlean Shinichi just based on this post.
#762 - Intended to be towards DBS. Pure setup gaming. NAI at best.
#763 - Inherently NAI.
#790 - Okay. This feels good. NAI at worst.
#1046 - Why the random snipe at Grapefruit? I like the analysis on Dawning. Also, my Huntzilla/Kpaca/Ophidia Looney Tunes post from Revolution comes to mind: "I demand that you shoot me now. So shoot me now!"
#1054 - I don't like the first part much, feels like scum coaching, whether or not they are aligned. The second part is reasonable, though contrasts severely with the first part.
#1068 - Reasonable statement and question.
#1079, #1085, #1087, #1088 - Huh. I'm inclined to believe this, which I think makes this a town progression of sorts.
There's a lot I don't like, but a bit I do like. A scumlean is the right place for now, with reasonable likelihood for movement one way or the other.
I dislike a number of posts from Killjoy, and I'm inclined to believe for a variety of reasons that his longer posts and his attempts try to quickly mislynch me out of the game are in this case possible scumtells. That said, Grapefruit made a good point on Killjoy and I vaguely recall some bits here and there that seem earnest enough to consider that he might be town. His longer posts are, like mine sometimes are, effectively multiple posts in one, so I'm going to split at least some of them up. Here we go.
#7 - "Hello future victims" as a start makes me uncomfortable. It's the sort of thing someone says as ballsy scum or to justify acting like ballsy scum in a later town game. Otherwise, null post.
#14 - I like the question towards LnGrrrR.
#111 - I don't think that the "list of people who can betray me" idea is actually a good one. It seems no different from a reads list. Killjoy somewhat recognizes this point, though he kinda skirts around it a little.
#111 Re: Iso - Talk about hedging… This looks like textbook hedging.
#111 Re: Azrael - Claiming Vigilante… Hmph.
#111 Re: RSJT #50 - Setup gaming for the purpose of being helpful. YMMV on how you read this.
#111 Re: LW - I didn't like that post either.
#111 Re: D_V - So at this point he's thinking there's multiple scum in RSJT + Tom + LW.
#111 Re: RSJT #94 - So at this point he's thinking that Tom and LW are both scum.
#111 Re: Phoenix - Doubling down on Tom + LW scumteam.
#119 Re: D_V - Weird, but probably NAI interaction
#119 Re: Dawning - Also NAI.
#168 Re: RSJT - "There's no way to lose just one BP" is objectively false. Also, setup gaming.
#168 Re: Dawning #123 - Legitimate argument underscored by the fact that they could be buddies.
#168 Re: Iso - Good question.
#168 Re: Dawning #146 - I don't ascribe to meta reads like this, but Killjoy might. I think this is probably NAI, though it is kinda asking someone else to do the work for you.
#168 Re: Osie #158 - Lazy. NAI at best.
#355 - At 6 posts out of 349, with an ideal average of 20 or 21, given the number of players, inactive is a relatively correct term. This also seems incredibly defensive for no reason.
#355 Thoughts on D_V - D_V was opining that one of LW, Tom, or RSJT was scum.
#355 Vote on Shinichi - This is an attempt to start a wagon on next to no justification. Light scum ping.
#355 Thoughts on Tom and LW - What a flip on both of them… And hedging on LW: "I begin to feel like"
#355 Thoughts on Dawning - Fence-riding, shade on Dawning without conviction…
#355 Thoughts on Grape - Note: Positive thoughts here on Grape, Puts as solid town in readlist
#355 Thoughts on Az - This is basically how I act when I respect someone's experience enough to not pigeonhole them into a certain pattern. NAI.
#355 Thoughts on LnGrrrR - Okay, so scumread on LnGrrrR.
#355 Thoughts on Osie - That's fair that I'd been joking a lot, but saying I wasn't working to find scum is wrong. If he "seems to ALWAYS scumread" me, then why not take it with a grain of salt throughout?
#355 Thoughts on Phoenix - That's lazy and not fair; he questioned me and Dawning and responded to Shinichi. This implies that Killjoy was skimming a lot of the thread and that these thoughts and readlist as a whole are unreliable at best.
#483 Re: Grape #357 - I see where he's coming from on LW here, at least. Shin comment doesn't look great.
#483 Re: Shin #360 - Setup gaming is NAI at best. Later point is a reasonable question.
#483 Re: LnGrrrR #363 - I feel off about this interaction somehow.
#483 Re: Axelrod #375 - I don't think they're bad stilted, but I definitely recognize them as stilted. And the other points are reasonable, though the BP one is setup gaming, which is not wonderful.
#483 Re: D_V #403 - Uggh. Gross.
#483 Re: D_V #403 (Responses) - Minus the overreaction on Whisper and the rudeness on some of the others, this is mostly okay.
#483 Re: Dawning #405 - Very reasonable.
#483 Re: Tom #427 - I think Shinichi is at least good enough that I don't want to lynch him D1. As for me, joking is just a side job.
#483 Re: D_V #461 - This is weird. I'm not sure whether to like this or not.
#495 - I don't like this sort of post, but I think given the context it might actually be a positive.
#496 - Good, but inherently NAI.
#530, 568 - HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE
First off, I wish this post was more broken up or organized in some way.
Secondly, I'm not super thrilled by the unvote at the beginning. That suggests that he's planning to vote me from the beginning.
#569 Re: Osie #158 - It's the beginning of the game! Why do I need to fake emotions? Yes, I was stifling discussion on mechanics, because generally it's a waste of time. I like it as much as if not more than the next person, but it doesn't help town to solve the game. As for the Iso-Terry point, it's kinda two different things. When talking to Iso, I'm asking what his reasoning is, whereas when talking to Terry, I'm pointing out a reasonable reasoning. Not necessarily Iso's reasoning, but a reasonable one.
#569 Re: Osie #180 - "Okay," which is what I actually said, is not equal to good, not equal to bad. It's relatively null, as is also the case when one doesn't have much of an opinion. I don't think this was an intentional misinterpretation, but I don't like that he actually just flat-out went with a different meaning than that of my earlier post.
#569 Re: Osie #228 - That would feel like too drastic of a change. Keep in mind that Terry was plummeting down in my reads right at this point. So any turnaround is already drastic, let alone putting him at the other end of the scale. I'm not going to forget my previous read just because of one post, not unless that post is something like a message from Bur confirming Terry as an Innocent Child.
#569 Re: Osie #236 - This is fair. And yeah, I didn't care for any of them.
#569 Re: Osie #239 - Oh come on, that was basically live action response to someone asking me to explain further. It's pretty much whatever. Yeah, I didn't go into detail at first. But I was also providing Terry with a quick link to the ISO, and part of the post was that I wanted to see more from LnGrrrR, a very legitimate reason to put pressure on someone.
#569 Re: Osie #240 - I've already explained that this was based on where I put inactives in my reads usually; I was mostly saying that the majority of players were at least null.
#569 Re: Osie #290 - What's there not to get? I was posing a contradiction to Dawning's point, pointing out that people were in fact questioning those two people.
#569 Re: Osie #297 - I mean, I guess it's legit, but it's VERY subjective.
#569 Re: Osie #321 - LW connection concern seems random. Like, so what?
#569 Re: Osie #329 - They don't have to be related.
#569 Re: Osie #336 - That's exactly where such speculation would make sense!
#569 . . . - I read the rest of things. The post as a whole feels like a mix of some legitimate points and some amount of shoehorning stuff into a narrative to fit his read. And all, in all, I don't come off looking so awful. Even if I buy into the strictest reading of his system, which I'm not sure that I do, I'm still not anywhere near where I should be according to his reads for a strongest scumread.
#569 - I think he's also underestimating a lot as "fluff" or "basic," and overestimating a lot as "hedging" or "weird." But some of this is sensible. Overall, I have the feeling that the amount of overwrought waffling about is more likely to come from scum. But if he is, in fact, town, then maybe he'll stop tunneling on me at some point.
#573 - So "because I just ISO'd Osie, and haven't ISO'd anyone else, and because after two previous games with him, in one of which he died early on, I'm super certain I know how to read him, I'm as certain as I can be that Osie is scum." Like, "confidence in Osie!scum is at its peak" sounds like he's directly implying 100% surety in a scumread in me. How is he so certain?
#576 - NAI at worst. Saying you're going to read someone is w/e.
#588 - He's so proud of the overwrought production.
#589, 590 - Pushing the wagon. This feels kinda tentative, though, as if he's testing people.
#659 Re: Osie #577 - I already responded to this, but I feel like it's like an anti-evolution argument; there's "some ideal point of detail" and it's never going to be reached.
#659 Re: Osie #578 - Explanation would be nice.
#659 Re: Osie #583 - Responded to this already. I see where he's coming from, though it's probably overall NAI.
#659 Re: Tom #598 - Killjoy seems not remotely self-aware at times, too. This is concerning.
#659 Re: Phoenix #613 - Cringe. Moving on.
#659 Re: Dawning #641 - What? Townread for not thinking about the game? I don't even. This makes no sense. I'm intrigued by the one scum on the wagon thought. It's a common idea, and with 5 people there, it is likely, at only 18% odds of no scum on the wagon. I know I'm town, and I'm pretty sure Phoenix is town. Shinichi and Grapefruit have been both townleans for me, but that could certainly change.
#696 Re: Grape #660 - Wasn't Killjoy in Revolution? Well, I suppose that's pretty NAI. "Your approach to this game is anti-town" and "I have a scumread on you" are both specific reasons. If you want more detail, you can ASK, rather than just throwing dirt at me.
#696 Re: Grape #581 - I guess I'm not the only person getting their point misrepresented by Killjoy to push a lynch. This leaves me inclined to believe town!Grape, but I'll wait until the ISO.
#696 Re: D_V - I feel like I could say the same to Killjoy.
#696 Re: Iso #663 - While I agree that the term "Mandersbusy" isn't great, and I suspect Manders might as well, Killjoy's point here is a strawman.
#696 Re: Iso #666 - Nuance? I'm being pushed for based on some small nuance? So this is literally admitting that his vote on me is not actually motivated purely by him considering me to be way scummier than everyone else. Also, he's actually just being insulting for the sake of it towards Iso.
#696 Re: Shinichi #669 - I addressed this, but this is objectively false.
#696 Re: Azrael #680 - This is a fair point.
#696 Re: Osie #691 - Some of this feels very fake. I think most of it is actually good, but it's intermixed with stuff like the reaction to my comment on Dawn that seems acted to maintain his argument against me.
#720 Re: Grape #702 - Reasonable question.
#720 Re: LnGrrrR #706 - "Just a tunnel to the left, then a tunnel to the right. Put your tunnel in your posts, and bring your tunnel in tight. But it's the tunnel thrust… Really drives you insa-a-a-a-ane. Let's do the tunnel again! Let's do the tunnel again!"
#720 Re: Iso #716 - Good point on the busywork aspect. And *sigh* I think I'll just leave this here
#736 - I hate it when people say "Use your brain," regardless of context. The fact that this post is actually just a personal attack on Iso rules out any good bits that it could potentially have.
#745 - Inherently NAI or slightly town.
#928 - This feels leading, but I've done that as town in this very thread, so that's NAI.
#929 - Inherently NAI.
#950 - Same point as #928.
#990 - This feels VERY leading. I'm intrigued to see where he's going with this.
#1026, 1034 - Ask and ye shall receive. Oh boy. AtE, then... I think I basically addressed this, but I'm always hesitant to come after people who are tunneled on me because I don't want OMGUS to weigh in too hard. My biggest concern is that while he may actually be town convinced on his hard tunnel, it's not clear that he really started from a point of objectivity. But Grapefruit's point "he doesn't let you look that good if he's scum" is really catching. But even when he seems like he's potentially considering the possibility of a hard tunnel, it's like he just shuts off any other possibility. I also get the feeling that this long posting style and attempt to setup what appears to be a chain of mislynches starting with a hard tunnel on someone who is town is EXACTLY what Killjoy would gravitate towards as scum.
#1036, #1043, #1047 - These are all good question posts that I would expect from town.
#1142 - Ooh. A medium length post that's also filled with good points. A bit of wrong setup gaming, but that's NAI in context. His argument for why it's okay for him to edge raises an eyebrow or two, but all-in-all I like this post.
#1147 - Pure setup gaming. NAI at best, Scum wasting time at worst.
#1148 - Inherently NAI.
#1153 - Or just stop setup gaming.
#1154 - I think part of the point that Iso is making is the "scum busywork" point; that while something like this can be fulfilling, it's a lot of work, and if you're not progressing your reads and the game while doing it, you're probably just wasting time, which makes you more likely scum.
#1156 - Inherently NAI.
#1164 - I'm not sure if he actually gets what Iso is suggesting or not. He still hasn't commented on the scum busywork element.
So this definitely leaves Killjoy at no higher than null to me. I think he's hiding behind the idea of putting effort in with the busywork post and setup gaming. It's not clear that he's progressing the game or his reads. There are some town points here and there, and Grapefruit's point on him is a good one. But I still am left with a bad taste in my mouth. I'm going to put him at scumlean for the moment with potential to move either way.
@Killjoy:
What made you flip on Tom and LW in #355?
Why not take your scumread on me more hesitantly if you ALWAYS scumread me (always incorrectly, may I add; I've been town in every game with you)?
Why unvote someone else specifically at the beginning of an ISO on me, as if you plan to vote me from the start?
Why do I need to fake emotions at the beginning of the game?
Why are you expressing roughly 100% certainty that I'm scum when your ISO suggests differently?
How is not thinking about the game a towntell?
What did you mean by post #721; it looks like you aren't sure about the motivation for your own argument?
Did you grasp the point Iso was making about scum busywork or just part of the point about levels of certainty, as #1164 suggests?
My only experience with Jenna is Silver's ongoing game. I posted #431 because at times:
Jenna's
#367 - Okay. ATE, but NAI for a first post.
#369 - I disagree with some of this, and dislike the Iso bit. This feels very rushed for some reason. Not sure what is meant by "The strength axis… …the vertical." I liked the Garfield typo, though it's completely NAI, although it kinda falls in with an issue that I have that I'll bring up later.
#373 - This post feels a little pointless, but I suppose it could be Jenna's form of pressure on Phoenix… …who is a townlean? What?
#374 - This post makes no sense to me. What I can get out of it is NAI.
#395 - I chuckled. This is a good post, and done with a good sense of humor.
#419 - This post is what led me to post #431. As seems to happen with Jenna, this is stilted and cryptic. Attempting to translate this gets me something like:
It's not necessarily a bad post outside of needing to translate it, but I am not sure if I can really say I'm reading this as town, especially given that I'm not even sure if I'm reading it correctly.
#498 - To the point. She doesn't care for Phoenix.
#501 - That's very specific to be concerned about, but okay. Not sure what "A draft is in order" refers to, but I'm not overly bothered by that, I think?
#585 - Okay, so time travel means reading old posts, I guess, at least here. Cryptic question is cryptic, but I might understand.
#621 - Apology is NAI. I do like that she's making the points she seems to be trying to make here on the statements. But in regards to the questions, what Iso said also comes up, with "immoral" as "unfair." Also, I'm not really sure why she's concerned in this particular manner on the first question. I kinda get it, but kinda don't.
#625 - After elaboration, I think this is okay. Really awkwardly worded, but okay.
#626 - Sure. Not sure why she's responding to that question specifically…
#654 - NAI, but cryptic.
#927 - This is a quite decent argument on Shinichi. The extended well metaphor is interesting.
#930 - Amusing, and fits in with the thoughts from #927.
#931 - I feel like she has over-extended her metaphor. Not that the question is necessarily unreasonable, though.
#933 - Explanation would be nice. But it's at least a bit of something.
#934 - Pocketful of Sunshine
#935 - I'm not sure if she doesn't know what a pocket is, if she is being coy, if she is suggesting that one of the two of us is pocketing the other, or something else.
#936 - A good question to me. That said, this is one of a few posts where I even exist, which, getting back to my earlier point, is potentially supported by the typo in #369 and the lack of responses to questioning. I'd love to see any indication that she's actually reading my posts…
#939 - It seems like she's accusing Grapefruit of being over-confident on his setup gaming, if I'm reading this correctly. A townie post, but not anything special.
#942 - I like this post a lot. It feels like organic town.
#944 - Inherently NAI.
#955 - Sigh. I like the extended metaphor smarm here, but it is unnecessarily cryptic.
#957 - Fair request, if I'm reading this correctly.
#958 - I understand that not everyone would immediately see that, so this is reasonable.
#966 - I guess? There are more polite ways to put this.
#976 - This is a damn good question.
#1065 - Not clear what exactly she's trying to imply here, but it doesn't feel scummy. NAI at worst.
#1066 - This feels like a nothing post.
#1067 - Lack of explanation is a little frustrating, but I think I get where she's coming from on some of these reads… Although, DV + Shinichi + Terry + Axelrod as suspected scum team… Huh. I don't have scumreads on any of those players, outside of relative tinfoils on Shin and Terry. It's concerning, but disagreement is not significant enough for me, especially on Day 1.
I wish she wasn't so cryptic all the time. But it could be worse, and overall, I'm slightly leaning town, with decent potential to move downwards, especially due to crypticism.
#26 - Iso starts with a vote on Axel, which looks to be for Axel's vote on Tom. I guess this is serious… Slight town feel there.
#29 - Normal Iso confidence. NAI.
#131 - The first sentence could be a scum ploy, but is relatively NAI. I wish he gave more explanation in this post of his reads. At the time, I like the read on LW, and I understand why such a read might be the case for Tom. I was also mostly okay with D_V and Az at this point, and not awful on Killjoy. I like his question towards Bluesky. All in all, a slightly town post.
#137 - Given who it is, I have no reason to believe that this is anything other than NAI.
#193 - I like the relevant, first two parts of the post. I still wish that he was putting out more content, but it's not bad. This post feels slightly town as well.
#433 - He's maintaining pressure on Dawning, actively thinking about Shinichi's point, considering other parts of the game, and he responded to my question. I'm not sure how I feel about the daytalk suggestion. The vote seems reasonable.
#434 - (EBWODP) NAI, being reasonably helpful.
#480 - Everything here appears fair. Also, maintaining pressure on Dawning seems slightly town.
#509 - Maintaining pressure on Dawning, feels genuine. Joke to Killjoy seems like Iso's getting into the swing of the game. Townreads and questioning towards Az and Axel seem reasonable, though I'm not sure how I feel about it coming from Iso specifically.
#663 - This post pushes Iso from townlean to townread for me. I don't care for the weird positioning with Az and the repeating of the daytalk question (which I guess is something Iso is stuck on). I like the Dawning, Killjoy, Jenna, and Lastwhisper bits.
#664 - Iso acts lazy at times, but is a good person and if he feels something is the right thing to do, he'll generally go for it. But not without kvetching, which is all I think this post is. He's said in the past that when he's playing as town, he's just being himself, which gives me good feelings here. I'll leave this as NAI, though, given the potential for WIFOM if I overanalyze laziness.
#666 - I love it, and this is one of my main concerns with Killjoy.
#668 - Very slight scumminess for me here; this looks pockety.
#671 - Inherently NAI.
#687 - I wouldn't put it past Iso to act out this post as scum in a vacuum, but with the rest of his posts, I'd put it as slightly town.
#716 - NAI or slight town. I don't like the pseudoappeal to IRL here, though I like the questioning.
#727 - NAI. Each part could be interpreted in either direction.
#932 - Inherently NAI.
#1080 - What are you doing? Okay…
#1081 -
#1091 - This seems like Iso put some effort into this. Let's see. I actively don't like the attitude throughout this post. Otherwise it feels pretty NAI. Oh, and overly emotional.
#1104 - Again, the attitude really rings badly. Is Iso frustrated with this game? Is impolite!Iso a thing now? How am I supposed to read this?
#1127 - I disagree that you're not being a jerk. Also, this post mostly just boils down to "HEY, YOU GUYS! I'm town."
#1135 - This feels really bad. Like, OoG angleshooty bad.
#1140 - This… doesn't feel like an Iso post, though it does seem more likely to come from a town player.
#1150 - Okay, back to a post quality that I can stand behind.
#1158 - Or something. I agree with Iso's point here. Not sure if he has to be getting nearly this wound up about things, and not sure what that means for alignment.
#1160 - Ehh. Especially with #1135.
#1161 - I'm biased on this post, but I do like that there's questioning going on.
#1168 - Did Iso and D_V switch accounts for this game? This post isn't awful, but it isn't good either.
#1171 - Again, biased, but the argument makes a lot of sense even beyond that.
All-in-all, I'm at light townlean. A number of his recent posts give me pause, but there's a high number of good posts throughout. High potential to move either way.
Grapefruit was town or null for most of the game for me so far. I liked a lot of his posts at the time, but several other people have scumread him, and I certainly saw moments that he seemed pockety towards me or towards others. So I'm going in relatively null on this one.
#18 - Serious vote this early? Hmm.
#20 - This is a very good point.
#242 - Yeah, this was kinda how I felt when I came back the first day. His reads seem quite reasonable, and his idea and confidence on the Tom/Terry/Wisp triangle (I like that phrasing) feel appropriate. Read on me is either really good or really bad.
#249 - Ooh. Townie indignant reaction. I like. Again, not sure how I feel about his thoughts on me.
#301 - Yeah! Nice, clean pressure.
#302 - No strong town feels? Aww. Not super enthused with this comment to Tom, though I like the second part.
#356 - This feels sincere. Continued townfeels.
#357 - Hmm. I think this is townie. There's some awkwardness for me here in the first bit, but all-in-all decent.
#377 - Meta meta, meta meta, meta meta, meta meta… BATMAN! Meh.
#551 - I'd love more explanations here.
#552 - It's not a bad post. Not sure how good it is, though I like the last part.
#553 - Mm-hm.
#556 - Okay, this feels good. I want to see more, though, at this point. Like a big awesome splash into the deep end of town.
#558 - Good point, I like the pressure on Dawning.
#570 - Personally, I find this NAI. I'm sure some people disagree with me on this one.
#575 - I like this post quite a bit, though I'm definitely biased. I'm a little surprised at him saying that he doesn't see the amount of fluff as a scumtell, though I think Killjoy overstated what qualifies as fluff.
#581 - I think that this is actually NAI. I agree with the premise, and I like that he's clearly actively thinking about things. But I'm not sure that this isn't just as likely to come from scum.
#600 - Pocketful of Sunshine. A good question at the end, though.
#617 - A lot of questions, most of them good. It feels like real scumhunting and thought.
#660 - Again, a lot of questions, most of them good. It smells like real scumhunting and thought.
#673 - This sounds like he's scumleaning me. But the list is okay. Explanation would be nice.
#689 - It moves like real scumhunting and thought.
#702 - It quacks like real scumhunting and thought.
#743 - I think Grapefruit is most likely a duck, by which I mean town. I don't like his defense of LW here, but it's a series of great posts.
#747 - I don't like the question to Tom, and the first part feels a little pockety, but all-in-all this seems at least half reasonable.
#769 - I'm not sure if I agree on DBS/Wisp, though if put on the spot, I'd guess that they aren't V/V.
#770 - This is either really good, or some good, some bad. I think Grapefruit isn't trying to pocket me? If he is, he's succeeding on some level.
#776 - Huh. I'd do it as either alignment. This is NAI at worst, probably slightly town.
#903 - Not for a second? This sort of sentence makes me really paranoid. Okay on the vote, though, I suppose.
#905 - NAI, I'm thinking.
#911 - Good point.
#1003 - Alex Rodriguez? What does baseball have to do with anything? I like the conviction here.
#1023 - NAI, could be read either way.
#1024 - THANK YOU! Also, the latter two paragraphs are good.
#1044 - Elaborating, and asking for elaboration. NAI at worst, feels town.
#1045 - I think people don't recognize this point enough, and I've certainly been guilty of that as well. Very good post.
#1062 - Nothing here is particularly negative, and I like the first and last bits.
#1063 - Besides, he's not all over the place.
#1064 - I'd probably put Terry and Tom a little higher, not sure on that. I like the positioning of Phoenix, LnGrrrR, DBS, Iso, and LW, at the very least. I like that he's sticking with his convictions on Killjoy.
Lots of good posts. Strong townread, unlikely to move down quickly.
BluesEclipse should probably just be replaced.
#11: RVS on me for a joking reason.
#243: Nothing post.
BluesEclipse normally puts in a decent amount of work to his games, so it feels bad, since I'm guessing something's going on, but he's just above scumleans in POE. Looking forward to what Kabazame brings to the table.
I mentioned somewhere earlier in this post that it felt like two people, I think it was Iso and D_V, switched accounts. When reading some of Azrael's posts, it feels like Azrael and Megiddo switched accounts. Oh well, let's get it started:
#39 - Same as LnGrrrR's suggestion, with a partial claim, and a lot of sass. Huh. I don't even know what to say.
#40 - Okay, I guess.
#41 - I get that Az definitely knows what he's doing, but this seems like trying to rile LW up… Not sure what to think about this.
#45, #46 - Hahahaha.
#71 - Okay. I like this post at least a little.
#72 - I like how the really skilled players on this site can make even some of their fluffiest posts look like they're actively progressing the game.
#77 - Not sure about the super short answers, but I like the question here.
#79 - Feels real. Not sure on alignment, but probably NAI at worst in a vacuum.
#83 - This is either super town or super scum…
#84 - I agree, though I wish we were seeing more… I suppose it's a lot for the early game.
#92 - Self-meta (and the jokes) are NAI at best in this post, but I like the feeling of the post as a whole.
#100 - Derp. Azrael's having fun making himself hard to read. I think, like when I do it, it's actually NAI, though we'll see. The questions are probably good.
#127, #128 - Why? Explanation would be very nice.
#174 - Okay, I get what you're putting down.
#372 - I like this reaction. Doesn't hurt that I was also concerned about KJ by this point.
#516 - What? First part is whatever. Second part is decent. Last sentence is uhh…
#560 - I feel like this confidence/arrogance is going to get me WIFOMed into Azrael's craziness. So… Town?
#561 - Uggh. This might or might not be a legit strategy.
#562 - I'm breaking out the Yiddish words beginning with 4 consonants at my computer screen right now.
#608 - *Sigh* It's probably a town line of play.
#672 - Huh. I'm inclined to say that a role that dies to betrayal is probably town. But that's also what Az wants me to think. So NAI?
#674 - I like this post.
#680, #681 - Okay. Not sure on some of these, but I like that he's presenting things with explanations as such.
#697 - Second paragraph starts out with a false premise, but otherwise this post is pretty good.
#698 - I like the attitude.
#699 - Not fooled that easily.
#704 - Seems legit.
#705 - Ehh. NAI, I think.
#715 - I like this reaction.
#740 - I think this "backing off of an act" act is real. Azrael could turn out to be scum later, but I hope not.
#742 - Good pressure in the first part, amusing second part. +Townfeels.
#752 - Ooh. Spicy. Not sure if this is town… I think it is, though.
#753 - I don't think scum!Azrael would be acting this particular part here.
#754 - PFFT at "Proper PBPA" idea. Could go either way on alignment.
#756 - I think this is more likely than not a town post.
#779 - This is also more likely than not a town post.
#780 - We'll see. I'm feeling really paranoid right now, and I don't like it.
#791 - This seems like a good reaction.
#794 - Self-meta is NAI at best. Still wondering about the use of the word "incontinent."
#795 - This feels very genuine. I think Az is probably town.
#890 - Okay, I guess. I don't agree on the Grapefruit vote, but Revolution gives me some good vibes on the LW thoughts.
#981, 983 - NAI confusion about usernames.
#998 - Reasonable thoughts, and I like the emphasis on not modgaming.
I'm roughly at a townlean, with some potential to go either way. There's some good posts, especially recently, but the strategy muddles things up quite a bit. I wonder if I was one of the people that Az intended to catch with this, especially with #699.
I read through this around post #767, and was left with a light townread, if I recall correctly. Before that, I had been at townlean with need for more information. The reread was partially spurred by realizing I had inadvertently skimmed one of Axelrod's posts (#701) without thinking enough about it.
#25 - Iso didn't care for this. I don't have much thought on it other than it's a reasonably good reason to vote Tom, but not necessarily one I'd expect from someone used to Tom.
#28 - Jovialness in RVS is NAI, though it can feel positive to me.
#61 - Partial claim very early on in a relatively nothing post? Hmm.
#67 - Reasonable point. Asking the mod a question is NAI.
#78 - While I don't necessarily agree with the Ally/Ally opinion, and suggesting lists is ehh, the points made here are reasonable.
#91 - Okay… And?
#104 - Explanation would be nice. Otherwise, well, I didn't really feel one way or the other on Terry + Azrael. I'm not sure that Terry could make a post like #53 in the case that Terry + Azrael was a thing, though. That said, outside of Russian Roulette, it's been a while since I've been in a game with Terry, so make of that what you will.
#375, #402 - I like where Axel's mind seems to be going on the majority if not all of these points/questions.
#418 - More mindmeld at this point, especially in regards to his point on Shinichi.
#441 - Good point on Lastwhisper, followed by very reasonable concerns and questions to LnGrrrR and myself.
#485 - /barn on Killjoy's post. Phoenix is mostly null to me, though that may change after a more thorough ISO. I see where he's coming from on LW's vote.
#494 - Reasonable question in that figuring out what Killjoy was referring to was buried in a long post from D_V responding to a long post from Killjoy.
#615 - Most of this is NAI to me, or slightly town. Not sure how I feel about his thoughts on Dawning here, mostly because I'm not 100% sure how I feel about Dawning at the moment.
#616 - I like that he's townreading based on unintentional mindmeld.
#619 - Inherently NAI.
#701 - This was the post I had skimmed over the first time(s) I read it. Not only is there some mindmeld for me, the post is well-written and well-thought-out.
#703 - Inherently NAI.
#712 - Maintaining pressure on LnGrrrR, though I don't like that he hasn't changed his vote yet.
#784 - Reasonable, though I'm a little tired of people kvetching about the number of posts in the game.
#785 - Oh boy! (NAI, any town vibes that this could give are erased since he apparently isn't doing it.)
#977 - I came at the situation from a different angle, but this post feels very genuine.
#980, 988 - I'm very ehh here. I like the pressure on Dawning, but I dislike that this could just be rolefishing.
#992 - Yeah, I was just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
#993 - Important catch.
#995 - Mindmeld.
There are some bits that I don't like here and there, but for the most part, he seems rather town. Light townread, unlikely to drop.
@Axelrod: Could you elaborate a bit on your thoughts on Terry and Az from #104? Why haven't you changed your vote from Tom at this point?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Based on Pre-1200:
Osieorb18
Strong Townread:
Grapefruit
Phoenix
Light Townread:
Axelrod
Tomsloger
Townlean:
Azrael
D_V
Iso
Jenna
Megiddo
Shinichi
Terry
Null:
Inactive:
BluesEclipse/Kabazame
Scumlean:
Dawning
Killjoy
Lastwhisper
LnGrrrR
Light Scumread:
Strong Scumread:
~~~~~~~~~~
After 1200, I see a lot of flailing from Dawning. I was keeping up to a degree, and have expressed my thoughts there. I think it's appropriate to leave her in scumleans given the circumstances. If she's not having fun, she should replace out, if she's okay, then she should not try to be annoying to people. The "gamethrowing" accusations are incredibly bad form.
Killjoy has posted 11 posts. I liked his question on Axel. I like a lot of the following longer post as well, though he's defensive at several spots. Not too bad on the hedging front, though. I want to hear his defense of Dawning, that sounds interesting. Some amount of setup gaming… I think that's okay. I liked his questioning to me on LnGrrrR too. Outside of myself and Tom, I'm in relative agreement, and I can accept the Tom read based on who it's reading. I don't completely agree with the "Have not been lurking" because, well, int(800/17) = 47, which is significantly greater than 11, and not all of these posts were particularly valuable contributions. I like that he's sticking by his convictions on the tunnel on me, although I kinda still feel that he's not considering the whole picture. #2008 could go either way. I'm inclined to say BLEH, but I think it might actually not be unreasonable. I'm moving Killjoy up to null, with possibility of going in either direction.
LnGrrrR hasn't been great, but his frustrated defense felt really good, as mentioned by Azrael. Moving to Null.
Kabazame posted a single catchup post. I like some of their thinking, but I want to see more! Null for now, I guess. *Grumble*
Town!Phoenix is still one of the towniest of townie towns to ever townily town in town.
Jenna has been significantly less cryptic, and I like the past/present comment for catchup. Moving to Light Townread.
I still like Grapefruit as a Strong Townread.
Shinichi can stay where they are, or move up, even. They've been working hard and well this game. Moving to Light Townread.
Tom can stay where he is.
Megiddo needs to post more. Moving to Null.
I like Iso's effort and poking. His worst posts are not even so bad, after the gamebreak. Moving to Light Townread.
Azrael has been relatively useless, a phrase I thought I never would say. Moving to Null.
Terry has been putting good pressure and a lot of his reactions seem very organic and unlikely to come from scum. Moving to Light Townread.
HEYO! Another one! Axelrod is awesome. Moving to Strong Townread.
Lastwhisper is… not great. Actually, due to his answers to my questionnaire, I kinda feel like Dawning should be scumleaning/scumreading Last given her answer to question E: "or if he knows how useful it is, he will answer in a way that will contradict with my given answers, to throw me in a bad light..and he's been obsessed over that for a while." I'm moving Lastwhisper to Light Scumread.
I've scumread or at least tinfoiled D_V every game except for Maelstrom of Alara. I'm hoping it's just a personality/playstyle thing here, as it has been at times in the past, but I'm not sure. I thought we had gotten past this. I guess not. Moving to Null with a disgusted and regretful *sigh*.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Readlist, mk 2:
Osieorb18
Strong Townread:
Axelrod
Grapefruit
Phoenix
Light Townread:
Iso
Jenna
Shinichi
Terry
Tomsloger
Townlean:
Null:
Azrael
D_V
Kabazame
Killjoy
LnGrrrR
Megiddo
Inactive:
Scumlean:
Dawning
Light Scumread:
Lastwhisper
Strong Scumread:
~~~~~~~~~~
HOWEVER, that leaves me with less than 4 people in my POE for scum. So out of the null pile, who am I most concerned about? Well, I'll just figure out an order for them:
Megiddo
LnGrrrR
Killjoy
D_V
Kabazame
Azrael
Scummiest Null
~~~~~~~~~
I think that Megiddo and LnGrrrR are really almost townleans at this point, though Megiddo could certainly do things either way to drop down in my reads. If Kabazame posts, I suspect he will move up in my reads, though he needs to post well; I really hate the whole "replace in and then do nothing" action.
~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~
Vote: Lastwhisper until I feel better about you.
Thank you Osie. I'll check it out in full after I make this post I'm making. About you.
11 since #1200, which was my cutoff so I would not go insane.
But I've still been posting regularly.
A 2000 post D1 with... like a week left is insane.
Fair. I mostly just wanted to point out that in fact, saying you were relatively inactive was not wholly wrong. It's not really hugely alignment indicative, to me at least, as long as you're still posting reasonably well (as either alignment)
Should everyone be making 20 posts a day, or be considered lurking or what?
Oh boy. I wonder how many of the descriptors will begin with F...
"Faithless, Fake, Farfetched, Fishy, Flaily, Fluff, Flustered, Foolhardy, Forced, Freaky, Fretful, Friendly (to a fault)"
I like you and really hope you keep playing here, so please don't take this personal, but you can't be alive in this game anymore. I really hope you are scum and I'll feel really bad if you are town, but I'm locked in. this train of thought is bad, and it confirms that this tunnel is unhealthy...
This was 24 hours spread out over the past several days, since you made #1036, at 10:02 PM on Sunday, 10/29.
But yeah, 1000 posts in the past 4 days is absurd.
"I want to post a reads list, but lets make people decode it first."
This is a lot of words for a scumread you're 'just now comfortable having':
Let me decipher that LnGrrR post:
Scum things:
*Ally Only idea presented strangely
*ultimatum like post in very beginning
*town suiciding idea presented strangely but not the worst
*liking Terry (at that point in the game)
*"a lot" I didn't like"
*doubles down on suicide angle
*questions to Grapefruit
*use of the word "townslip" (Thats just not true, but whatever)
*ignored LW's third option
*341 is scrambly
*363 has weird contrast between me and GF
*579 is angleshooty
*582 is rolefishing
*623 is cornered scum.*690 is baffling
*759 is awful and almost spills into Shin.
*1046 is a random snipe at GF
*1054 is coaching Dawn
Not scum things:
*first bit on Terry in 69
*Stuff with Whisper is not wolf/wolf, but you don't want to force yourself into an artificial dichotomy, but 'not ruling it out'.
*345 has a nice attitude
*572 has nice quick pressure without anyone else involved ahead of time
*liked where 755 was coming from
You've been scumleaning him for... quite a bit of time. Why are you just now "confortable" with voting him?
------
@Osie
Screw it. I've given most of an ISO on the first half of the game on Dawn, and my thoughts there are pretty much that I wouldn't mind a lynch because of anti-town, but I'm not convinced that she is in fact scum."
"After 1200, I see a lot of flailing from Dawning. I was keeping up to a degree, and have expressed my thoughts there. I think it's appropriate to leave her in scumleans given the circumstances. If she's not having fun, she should replace out, if she's okay, then she should not try to be annoying to people. The "gamethrowing" accusations are incredibly bad form."
what do you think of DV pushing my lynch, was he bussing? if you say DV could be town while Dawn is scum, what do you think of his theory that scum won't have a scummy role?
why do you put LnG in neutral for trying to pull a hate-lynch on me? that was bad form as well, AtE even.
I'm sure the BP system has more to it than just "Betray scum, Ally town". LnG's claim doesn't match up to his stance, since he should've kept quiet about it and wait for the first AB game/lies to set in, and reveal his results ALONG with his role. he also never gave his title, only said he was some character. there was nothing that said he was TOWN.
//thinks//
I'm annoying since...I'm annoying. having fun in this game of course, since I can 'flail around and waste the Day phase'.
if town is smart, it will force itself to look away from this 'bad town being pushed' or 'scum who's wasting our time' and do something more productive~ instead, I've been forced to fullclaim, and kept as the center of attention and a possible threat. can't blame me for saying this town is hopeless. lol
no wait.. a better way of phrazing it.. is that the scumteam is really putting effort into this. I sincerely admire the efforts of one team, and I hope the other team is up to the challenge. I'm just being tossed around in this town where every man is for himself~ I'm a strong role and somewhat able to do this, so why not try to sort my mess of a team? I love a good challenge. my way of enjoyment might come off badly, but I genuinely am trying to help. no strings attached
Be grateful, always."
Yeah, how do you think it feels to replace into this mess? lol
I'm not going to lie, I still have like 20 pages to slog through. I haven't had a lot of time, and a lot of these posts aren't easy to read. Not only that, the game is still moving pretty quick so it takes me a while to read the new posts, let alone going back!
Anyway, I think LnGrrR's claim makes sense with his opening post. He did say "Btw, if you betray I am going to assume you are scum unless you note the reasons publicly, ahead of time. I will be paying attention.", the last line especially seems like he has some way of knowing if people betray or not. I suppose the role could be scum, but I haven't read him as scum outside of that.
Osie I still think is very shady. He gave up the Lngrr thing really quick and I don't really feel like he's actually scum hunting. I'll try to prepare a more detailed analysis of this but basically I'm seeing a lot of faked activity and it doesn't seem right.
I thought Phoenix(?) made a great point about LW trying to sell that Iso/DBS thing. I kind of think DBS and Iso are both town and he was assuming a DBS lynch today and setting up Iso for tomorrow. Of the two leading wagons I prefer LW but I think more people should look at Osie
I tend to make my reads based on reactions to my own posts, so it's been quite a struggle to get my footing while being so far behind :/
[b][color=green]@Iso:[/color][/b] I am also interested in your input on the D_V question in #1924.
@Killjoy: You seen the (at least mostly) full moon over California tonight? Gorgeous. Anyways, either before or after you answer my questions in the huge post, could you also talk more on your thoughts on Terry, Tom, D_V, and Lastwhisper? I'm also interested in your input on the D_V question I asked of Tom in post #1924.
@Iso: I am also interested in your input on the D_V question in #1924.[/quote]
but now I don't have to!
You're right, I can do better.
vote: last whisper
Also, osie's town.
and who is doing the serving?
This feels a bit like cftwr to me.
who was phone?
no but really I'm glad you asked this question too!
you seem more...
cogent? cogent. more cogent than usual.