My goal today is to get a solid read on Jenna. And Torg/Tubba but that'll likely happen without having to, ya know... translate their posts into English.
Lets try @Jenna: Can I get a reads list from you? Preferably without abbriviations?
@Tubba:I have a question relating to something you said in the scumchat of Low Fantasy: You implied you didn't know what to fake when trying to fake as town. Low Fantasy was obviously your first game, and you were scum. Have you still never been town?
Not @Tubba: Speaking of Low Fantasy, EternalLurker completely fooled me. I had him as town for much the same reason as I have Colin/Bear (plus he was doing some townieesque arguing which I liked) and as such I want to reexamine my reads on them for some kind of specific motivation that I can relate to a specific alignment instead of what essentially amounts to a gut Townie read of "they're trying" in various degrees.
@DotA: Cute kid. You should probably return him to his parents soon before they get worried though.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Not quite sure I understand the motivation in roleblocking me and shooting Vaimes rather than vice versa, but doc dodge I guess.
I guess it's theoretically possible it's a town roleblock on me (jailkeeper?) and they made the right call in doc dodging heh.
Whatever, it's all wifom - I'll just say that if it was a jailkeeper on me, to like, flip a coin on protecting me or your second most obvious protect, so wolves have to either risk a bounce or shoot into the possible PoE.
I've looked at Vaimes' ISO and can't figure why anyone would have targetted him. It does solidify me townread of Voxx though, I can't imagine scumVoxx would kill Vaimes so early in the game unless Vaimes was pushing him hard.
@Killjoy:
@Voxx: Is it wise to bring that up now? Why paint a target on your head as a PR at the beginning of Day 2?
Gonna read through Vaimes when I have a chance, though I don't expect to find much.
Vote Count 1.Final osieorb18 - 7 (DoTArchon, Tubba Fett, Killjoy, King Torg, shadowlancerx, Voxxicus, A Bear) (L-0)
A Bear - 2 (Vaimes, osieorb18)
DoTArchon - 2 (Jenna Tolaria, Reaverb Tau)
Not Voting - 1 (Colin)
Based solely on this vote count my rough guess of the scum team would be one of [Tubba, King Torg], one of [Jenna, Reaverb], and Bearfruit. Will see what interactions look like and go from here.
Hum. I don't hate this I guess?
I don't think Dota is clear, and don't think you or Colin are quite 100% clear, but I don't disagree that there's probably at least one in (Tubba/Torg/Grapefruit/Dota) and at least one in (Reaverb/Jenna/Colin). It's obviously _possible_ all 3 were on or off, but I consider that pretty unlikely given holistic gameflow things.
I've looked at Vaimes' ISO and can't figure why anyone would have targetted him. It does solidify me townread of Voxx though, I can't imagine scumVoxx would kill Vaimes so early in the game unless Vaimes was pushing him hard.
@Killjoy:
@Voxx: Is it wise to bring that up now? Why paint a target on your head as a PR at the beginning of Day 2?
Let's just say I thought about it fully before bringing it up, and let wolves worry about what that means.
I'd like to see a full reads list, or continuation of the stuff you started on D1. Like, one of the biggest reasons you weren't lynched is that you just...weren't around, so it'd be useful if you were able to dump as much thoughts and content as possible so people can actively generate a read on your slot instead of "Hasn't been all that townie, so...maybe wolf?"
Kind of trying to figure out if that's a real thought you have or if it's just a throwaway reason to town read me.
Like, assume I'm scum here - who do I kill instead of Vaimes? Walk me through what you think Scum!Voxx's path to victory is and why he wouldn't kill Vaimes when considering it. I want to see you think.
Shadow/Voxx should still explain their scumreads on me, and their EoD behavior in general. Right now I'm thinking one or both might be scum with DoTA and intentionally used the Bear wagon to redirect away from DoTA. Particularly weird is shadow talking about how terrible the EoD chaos was when he was a major cause of it.
If you have an outstanding question, I will mention when I've caught up so you know if I've genuinely missed it.
First sentence is "I feel like Killjoy is reading the thread, and therefore and Townreading him" ???
Second/Third sentences are....I don't know where or how much forum mafia you've played in the past but necroquoting (neologism by me, pretty clear analogy to necroposting) is something I've seen from scum more often than Town. For the exact reasons you mentioned, it helps players look Town while being significantly less +EV Town than most other types of content. Also, a good amount of the content in #142 was the equivalent of Killjoy responding to a post with "lol".
Fourth sentence "presents a lot of opportunities for the other players to interact with him": That would be a lot better accomplished with a reads-post, and having everybody start arguing about necroquotes tends to degrade Town conversation more than it actually helps.
Final sentence is fine, although asking questions as scum isn't rocket science.
lolwut?
First sentence: That wasn't his argument. His argument was that i had a clear train of thought.
Second/Third: Why is specifically the way I entered the game scum vs. town? Your arguments of "He could do that as scum" are kinda flimsy, and are easily countered with "he could do that as town though." Why are you so intent on scumreading me for this, and why didn't you bring this up earlier?
Fourth: I could have, but I didn't. This is what I did. Just because I didn't enter the game like you would have doesn't make me scum.
This all seems out of nowhere. I'm not sure where it came from. I was null in 149 and now I'm scum?
Your content up until your readspost was all things that are more effective at making somebody /look/ Town rather than /actually helping Town/ (relative to most other types of content). Nitpicking specific ancient posts makes it looks like you're evaluating everything in-thread, but it's much less effective than scanning ISOs for particular patterns of behavior or specifically ranking players in a way that can later referenced or discussed.
I put you as null in #149 because I thought it might have been a 1-shot catch-up post, but then #186 was almost identical in style. I think townreading you for that post is still weird.
@Voxx: Is it wise to bring that up now? Why paint a target on your head as a PR at the beginning of Day 2?
Let's just say I thought about it fully before bringing it up, and let wolves worry about what that means.
Well if you're town and you weren't blocked by a wolf, then you've given them information about yourself and other town. It seems to me that town doesn't really benefit from this information at the moment. You say you've "thought about it fully", but I still feel it's short-sighted.
@Voxx
Regarding your feelings on Bear, I'm inclined to take your word for it, I've no previous experience with them so everything you say could be true and a perfectly valid reason to put vote pressure on them. However, I dont think you are going to be able to bring enough people on with what is essentially a meta read to make a lynch happen there. Talk to me about Osie, Tau, Dot and Colin. Does your meta offer you any insight on those players?
@Tubba Fett
Why are you inclined to take Voxx's word for anything? Are you townreading Voxx? If so, why had you not mentioned it before this post? Why didn't you vote A Bear here?
Shadow/Voxx should still explain their scumreads on me, and their EoD behavior in general. Right now I'm thinking one or both might be scum with DoTA and intentionally used the Bear wagon to redirect away from DoTA. Particularly weird is shadow talking about how terrible the EoD chaos was when he was a major cause of it.
If you have an outstanding question, I will mention when I've caught up so you know if I've genuinely missed it.
Vote: Killjoy
The end of day chaos was great, my comment was that the day as a whole was bad.
Vote Reaverb
Your suspicion of me/Voxx as a team is laughably ridiculous and just not a thought I believe you would have as town; annnnnnd then voting a person you haven't even mentioned in this post after spouting 3 other people you think are scum? Nope.
Your suspicion of me/Voxx as a team is laughably ridiculous and just not a thought I believe you would have as town; annnnnnd then voting a person you haven't even mentioned in this post after spouting 3 other people you think are scum? Nope.
If it's "laughably ridiculous" then you should be able to explain why it's wrong, shouldn't you?
Killjoy is another scumread of mine. Tunneling on a single world is obviously anti-Town behavior.
----
Since shadow seems to love dodging questions, I'm going to put this as a signature on all my posts until he properly explains his scumread on me.
###
Number of posts shadow has made without explaining his scumread on me after trying to get me lynched D1: 3
In my experience a "reads-post" would be more indicative of scum. It gives more room for maneuverability and it's lazier. The post felt really good to me. When I read it I felt comfortable, like it's a natural post rather than a constructed one. As I've said earlier I'm an emotional player, so that's going to skew things which can be read multiple ways at times. Either way, I think the post is a good measuring stick showing Killjoy's thought process which can be used to compare future posts and interactions.
Could you give an example of something you think Killjoy has committed to? Give an example of something Killjoy could post that you would call a walk-back. Because right now he hasn't committed to any reads except Voxx being Town, which was justified with false premises anyway.
I am caught up with the thread now, if I haven't answered a question please bring it up.
###
Number of posts shadow has made without explaining his scumread on me after trying to get me lynched D1: 3
01. TubbaFett - If Colin's claims are true, TF should perish.
02. DoTArchon - Continuing pursuit.
03. Voxxicus - Nocturnal victim already trusted.
04. Reaverb Tau - Historical side remains to be seen.
05. Grapefruit21 r. A Bear - Conflicting vouchers leave me perplexed.
06. King Torg - Wishing for remains to be seen.
07. shadowlancerx - Doubtlessly respected.
08. Jenna Tolaria - Respects doubt.
09. Colin - Doubt remains, respectfully.
10. Killjoy r. Empoof - I haven't seen any posts by Killjoy.
Your suspicion of me/Voxx as a team is laughably ridiculous and just not a thought I believe you would have as town; annnnnnd then voting a person you haven't even mentioned in this post after spouting 3 other people you think are scum? Nope.
If it's "laughably ridiculous" then you should be able to explain why it's wrong, shouldn't you?
Killjoy is another scumread of mine. Tunneling on a single world is obviously anti-Town behavior.
----
Since shadow seems to love dodging questions, I'm going to put this as a signature on all my posts until he properly explains his scumread on me.
###
Number of posts shadow has made without explaining his scumread on me after trying to get me lynched D1: 902749262
I'm not saying you can't have multiple scumspects, I am saying that talking about 3 people you find scummy and then voting a fourth you don't even mention is scum behavior. And now I'm not going to explain because I want to see how high you can make that post number.
This and Shadow's quick barn of it jump out at me. Jenna's post is the kind that demands follow up. But neither really does anything more than poke at it. It feels like rushing to try and point to how weak the post was rather than being interested in trying to figure out what it means. All three people involved look scummy for it but in an unaligned way.
Dota
Vaimes
Voxx
Osie
Jenna
---
Who among you is scum?
Or make the case all 5 of those names are town, because I don't buy that.
I hate this sort of post. Shadow did you ever give reasons for why those 5? I know your reads are in different places now but this list was very strange.
Nothing about Vaimes's posts make me trust him or inspire me to take anything he's saying with even a microdose of truth. Osieorb I'm just not reading because I can't understand his posts. King Torg is someone I wouldn't trust with a secret. Colin's roleplaying is probably harmless but it is also empty of substance, bare of reason. Barer than bare of reason. Reason suggests there is a point to it all. And there is a bear, a bear a bear a bear a bear a bear. Why?
It looks like I'm not the only one you feel that way about (which is natural, since the game just started).
Why am I more likely scum than anyone else you don't trust, if trust is the issue here?
I know it's a broken record at this point of the game but this is another weird interaction with Jenna, I'm just not sure what Jenna is trying to accomplish this game. I miss Vaimes already...
My vote on Shadow was RVS, was obviously not based on a read of any kind. Osieorb agreeing with my comment and subsequently voting Shadow however looks shady, I don't think my comment was reason enough to push for a lynch. I'll respond in more depth a little late but for now, Vote: Osieorb18
This post looks really bad in light of Osie's flip. Dota distances himself from a wagon he was on (yes just an RVS one) and turns on a wagon mate for being opportunistic. I've made that play as scum before and it's an easy way to try to get action moving early without having to commit to reads. Major scum points for Dota there. And Bear agrees in 209 which is a bonus.
My vote on Shadow was RVS, was obviously not based on a read of any kind. Osieorb agreeing with my comment and subsequently voting Shadow however looks shady, I don't think my comment was reason enough to push for a lynch. I'll respond in more depth a little late but for now, Vote: Osieorb18
Hmmmmm...
And town points to Tubba for the outloud bookmark and defense of it that followed.
I'm not saying you can't have multiple scumspects, I am saying that talking about 3 people you find scummy and then voting a fourth you don't even mention is scum behavior.
I've talked on why I scumread Killjoy before, I'm planning to make another post on him in the next day or so. I hate having my vote doing nothing. I also think you're putting too much weight on "might be scum with DoTA", I don't want to lynch either of you this Day phase.
---
But really though, you think my back and forth with Voxx is scum theater, or even that we are both scum individually? I just don't buy that.
Voxx has done nothing remotely outside of his scum range. I don't know you hugely well except that you're good at both town and scum, and you don't appear to have done much outside of get wagoned (which I said from the start might have been an intentional distancing measure) and given reads without many reasons. I don't know which Voxx/you exchange you're referring to, but nothing struck me as significantly indicative of anti-alignment when reading through it.
###
Number of posts shadow has made without explaining his scumread on me after trying to get me lynched D1: 5
@Reaverb, I suppose I'm being slightly difficult. I will go over why I think you're scum and tried to wagon you on my busride to work tomorrow.
Ha, busride autocorrected to buddies. My phone knows that its primary function is Mafia.
This is just sad. You can do better than that scummy twisted presentation of things.
~~~~~~~~~~
Here's a list of questions that you have evaded or not answered at all over the course of the game. I'm not holding out hope, but maybe you can provide solid answers to even one of them.
Perhaps I have played mafia before. Or I have played it in the future. Perhaps this is my first game of this sort while communicating on a message board and not in real life. It is also likely that I browsed the other mafia games going on and thought, "yes JT, this looks like A Thing You Could Do."
What empirical evidence makes or made Vaimes more likely to be a member of the mafia than any other player, give others players have not posted at all?
I believe I made it clear that the empirical evidence, to use your emphasis, exists in the future. The current existence is simply Words On A Screen that evoke distrust. Unless, you are suggesting I express personal reasons outside of my Words On A Screen, in which I must respectfully decline. I don't feel it is acceptable to ask anyone for... Words Beyond A Screen.
Your question implies that the answer should be the opposite of what you expect me to say. I think you are smarter than that and do not need An Explanation For Your Actions. Your question is simultaneously answered and not answered in no temporal manner.
2. Could you please expound on where you're coming from on the following quotes?
King Torg is someone I wouldn't trust with a secret.
Unless, you are suggesting I express personal reasons outside of my Words On A Screen, in which I must respectfully decline. I don't feel it is acceptable to ask anyone for... Words Beyond A Screen.
@Jenna Tolaria: No comprehension of perception of cautionary response? Hmph. Either you're audacious, feckless, or naive. I'm inclined to the second, but willing to consider the first. I really hope it's not the last. If it's the first, good luck with that. Second, why? Do you have that much confidence? Last, that's unfortunate.
Jenna-
I like #73's point on DoTA which I didn't notice until they pointed it out and I don't think #103 is likely to come from scum (Either Vox is co-aligned scum or known Town pushing "one of the dudes on this wagon is scum" and instead of trying to doubtcast their wagon-mates they try to dispel the entire motion) I am a bit concerned about their question dodging (which I was intentionally not bringing up until Osie mentioned it).
#76 (which I'm assuming is what you meant) is good, but could just as easily come from scum.
#103 is completely NAI to me.
Why are you not paying attention to Jenna's question dodging? It's extremely blatant and extremely scummy.
This is a good post and the big bolded question still needs to be answered. Why is Jenna town? I see nothing suggesting she is. I get that there isn't a ton to suggest she isn't either though. But as was pointed out eloquently mafia is a team game and it's hard to win if people are obfuscating their opinions. I tend to assume malevolence when that happens. Though toDay has been a bit better. I actually like 366 even if it's still hard to decipher.
I'm going to throw down where I'm at. If I get your gender wrong I'm sorry, I'm just typing instinctively and I have no idea who any of you are (apart from the Bear).
The most important thing I think town should know about me is that I am an emotional player and tend to trust my feelings and instinct more than actual content, but only if those feelings are especially strong. Also, this doesn't mean I don't take note of content because I do. I'll to give a loose example; if I have a strong feeling that someone is mafia, they'll have to produce more substantial content from a town perspective than someone who I have no strong feelings about in order for me to read them town. Of course the opposite applies too.
Reaverb Tau;
I still have issues with the opening, but I've been over that in a previous post so I'm not going to push this point further at this stage.
The rest of the content has a town tone to it, and there's a few good points in his push on Tubba (which holds a lot more weight if osie is town), and his round-up of the game so far is pretty good I think.
shadowlancerx;
Upon re-reading I've flipped on him. I read his opening town. It seems natural and uninhibited. It's looking like he's eager to get in to the game and get actual information flowing.
I don't really have anything to add to this. The rest of his posts I'm getting a slightly town tone read, but nothing is jumping out as either alignment.
Vaimes;
Now this is an opening that I don't like. The interaction with Voxx comes across as someone trying too hard to blend in. The short posts of no actual value in quick succession is creating the illusion of content. The interaction with shadow is one that doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth either, shadow's looking for a more in depth answer to his question and isn't too happy with what he's given on the first two attempts. His post reads that he is begrudgingly accepting that he's getting nothing more, and then Vaimes elaborates. I feel that going out of the way to appease shadow after twice before not bothering is scummy. It's like Vaimes suddenly realised that there might be some sort of consequence for this exchange. This was followed up by an attempt to poke back which was limp at best. I'll point out again, that I have flipped my opinion on the opening since my initial post about it.
I'm partially going to trust Bear's read for now. I don't usually do this, but there are other people I'm town-reading that seem to be rading Vaimes town too.
osieorb:
Jumping back on to the shadow wagon for flimsy reasoning made me think that osie's thought proess was something along the lines of "Yey, now I have a reason to vote for the wagon leader." which is not good. The coming off looks like an attempt to be townie rather than genuine.
Switching the gimmick didn't seem natural to me. Why do it? If you're not happy with the first gimmick then drop it and play. It's not helpful to bounce around attempting to be funny.
There's a growing pattern of addressing the flimsiest things in the thread and responding to them rather than actually engaging in the content.
Then along comes some actual content leaving me unsure on exactly what to think about her. It's frustrating. The later the posts, the more I like her though. The teardown of Jenna provides a lot of substantial evidence that I'm waiting to see a response to. If I was to ignore the first half of the game she's one of my top towns.
Voxxicus:
There are no specific moments, but the in the first 70 posts or so I feel really comfortable with Voxx. He just feels safe to me.
I do like him questioning the shadow wagon, and the thought process in his post about Vaimes seems pure. It's not my interpretation, but I have no history to go off and these two clearly do.
Jenna Tolaria:
I like that she poked at my opening. It was devoid of substance and just a bit of RP fun. It's also done in a very townie way maybe, there's no real pressure there, but she wants to make sure that it's out there to be seen?
The random capitalisation really puts me off. I can't tell how much that's affecting my read. I'm not sure her logic and pushes are all that consistent though. There's been a fair bit of evasive behaviour too. Some of which osie pointed out.
DoTArchon:
DoT is the opposite situation to Voxx for me. The posts I read make me uncomfortable, and he's someone I want to stay away from.
The switching to osie after others have questioned her behaviour is scummy too. Why not bring that up earlier? This looks like some who's jumping on to town to be part of something wholesome.
Tubba Fett:
I don't like the asking about the expected number of mafia. It feels like a question a mafia would ask in an attempt at getting some town credit.
Going on from that, Tubba's posts are pretty much a guide to how not to post as mafia. This is especially clear in the poor response to RT and osie throwing some pressure on him.
King Torg:
I really don't like people claiming mafia.
That's all I have. What have you actually done?
A Bear:
The first content post is really good. It's a thought process that is agreeing with a lot of what I have. She's pointing out the right things in the right way and then adding on some local knowledge. Speaking of which, here's some from me. Bear wants me to play this game and is trying to constructively poke me and get me to interact more. As a wolf she has no real advantage in doing so (apart from trying to get me onside, but who cares about me?).
Killjoy:
Flattery will get you everywhere. Seriously though, it was a good entrance showing the thought process as he reads though the thread.
To be perfectly honest I'm so emotional on this one because I lost Empoof and that's all I can think about when I see Killjoy. "You're not Empoof"
To summarise;
Townsfolk; Colin, Reaverb Tau, A Bear
Living in the outskirts; Vaimes, osieorb, Voxxicus, Killjoy
Just visiting; shadowlancerx, King Torg
Banished; Jenna Tolaria, DoTArchon, Tubba Fett
If that is not a town post I don't know what is. I don't agree with the reads (I like Tubba!) but I like the process even if it feels a bit biased towards those Colin is familiar with.
@Killjoy I've played a couple dozen games I think? I've never actually counted.
Why do you think that one post is enough to read Vox? Is it some sort of meta read?
What was your criteria for picking the particular posts you did to respond to on your catch-up?
Re: Voxx: It's... kind of a meta read, I guess? I mean it's not so much something I have personally observed and found for myself through experience, but more through repuation. What I know about Voxx is: he HATES being mafia, because there's no puzzle to solve. Nothing he likes to do can happen when he's mafia. It's just so boring.
It was actually two posts that put me at that conclusion. The initial vote on Shadow (Wagons!) was one, combined with the quoted post led me to see a mindset where A)he is having fun and B)is trying to solve the puzzle only available as town.
Re: criteria: My process is basically read the thread, then when I have a question or relevent thought I quote and post. Some long posts I skim becuase those just become quotewalls (which I don't usually wanna deal with right then) so I don't usually do anything with them.
The idea of you participating in RVS at all is weird if you really love waiting to vote as much as you claim.
I think DotA is the most likely scum on the wagon right now.
Hm. Explain your thinking here.
Your Voxx conclusions are totally off. Your premises aren't wrong, but despite claiming to strongly dislike scum he's historically been very good at it. A couple years back I recall him claiming to never had been lynched as scum without a mechanical guilty across dozens of scum games.
Tubba has state they like waiting to vote as Town, which implies they do not agree with the normal evaluation Town should change their vote quite often, and having a vote down is always correct. However, he still participates in RVS, which is just this evaluation pushed to extreme due to extreme lack of info at the beginning of the game. This is inconsistent.
@A Bear Torg was/is in the "needs to post more nulls"
Tau's posts make my eyes glaze completely over. I tried to read this like 5 times and could not get through it. Note to self to ISO Tau at some point soon. Maybe removing context will help.
The biggest problem I have with a Dota wagon is that lynching him always feels like pulling the lever on a slot machine and hoping for the best.
I'm not actually sure if I've played many games with him, but I've followed along with several where he's been lynched early and I shrugged like 'Could be a wolf I guess?'
Sometimes he's even a wolf, but there's been a lot of mislynches too.
I have literally zero reason to think he's town, possibly beyond the fact that no one is defending him - but I'm not sure it's even possible for his buddies to actually defend him beyond chainsawing him by pushing something /else/.
It's a lynch I'd really like to deny the wolves if he's a villager, but need him to actually post, because right now I think I kind of shrug accept the lynch.
If Dota were to flip scum I'd want to look closely at Voxx given he was a huge part of the CFD onto Osie over Dota. That said I don't think scum often makes this sort of argument when white knighting. This is a scum+ post for Voxx if Dota flips scum and a town+ post in a vacuum.
Anyway reads:
Town
Colin
Tubba
Voxx
Shadow/Tau/KJ
Jenna
Dota
Scum
Biggest problems I have is I have no opinion on Tau or KJ and need to resolve that and my top two scum reads are close to mutually exclusive.
And I left King Torg out... He's in the Shadow/Tau/KJ mess that I can't sort out. Well I thought I had read on Shadow but it was based on that earlier misunderstanding of where he pulled those 5 from. Bumped him back up to neutral since I made that mistake.
Reaverb: Your play this game has felt more about pushing to lynch people rather than pushing to find alignments. For instance Tubba; you pushed him for a certain progression he made, then when you realized your missed a post, you didn't really reevaluate that read so much as seem disappointed you couldn't push him more. You've also been a little jumpy/preemptive with keeping people from pushing you. Your first two posts of the game are an example of this, as well your post where you throw out percentage likelihoods of Colin and KJ being scum then immediately cover it with "but those are just eyeball'd, don't hold me to them".
Just reading through your posts there's a bunch of small markers all over that are scummy in a vacuum as well, and not a lot of indicators of a townie mindset that I can see.
On the subject of Tubba, his very first game just ended, and he was scum. I think it's worth Isoing him in it, as I think his play has been different so far in this game. Granted, I caught him in that game and I recognize that he might have adjusted his play to counter act me, but I think it's relevant.
I've had a town read on you since your return from the V/LA. Before that I was a bit uncertain but your posts from that point onwards read to me as pure info spill, you're putting down everything that's going through your mind and none of it reads as scum trying to push an agenda.
Vaimes dying on night 1 solidifies that read for me because the two of you have a history together and I think scumVoxx would keep a townVaimes who wasn't scumreading him alive as long as possible because, if played correctly, he would defend you to the end or, if you flip he gets mislynched as a partner.
I could possibly see one of Shadow and Killjoy having a hand in selecting Vaimes as the N1 target, but I have kinda have townreads on both at the moment.
Kind of trying to figure out if that's a real thought you have or if it's just a throwaway reason to town read me.
Like, assume I'm scum here - who do I kill instead of Vaimes? Walk me through what you think Scum!Voxx's path to victory is and why he wouldn't kill Vaimes when considering it. I want to see you think.
Dota
Vaimes
Voxx
Osie
Jenna
---
Who among you is scum?
Or make the case all 5 of those names are town, because I don't buy that.
Vaimes and Osie are now confirmed town, Voxx is a strong town read for me and I know I'm town(even though most disagree).I'm still uncertain of where I stand on Jenna, but would scumJenna vote Shadow to L-2 with no reasoning?
Could it be possibile that this was an all-town wagon? And if so, what then?
Dota
Vaimes
Voxx
Osie
Jenna
---
Who among you is scum?
Or make the case all 5 of those names are town, because I don't buy that.
Vaimes and Osie are now confirmed town, Voxx is a strong town read for me and I know I'm town(even though most disagree).I'm still uncertain of where I stand on Jenna, but would scumJenna vote Shadow to L-2 with no reasoning?
Could it be possibile that this was an all-town wagon? And if so, what then?
Then it becomes a question of who stayed off and why. You're not wrong though that it's not impossible for it to be all town.
Not Voting - 6 (Tubba Fett, DoTArchon, Voxxicus, A Bear, King Torg, Killjoy) With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends at 11:59 PM Eastern on 29 October.
Bear with me, as this will be a jumble of post numbers.
216 refers to "5 = 85", question 5 of 155, which quotes 84, the followup at 85. Math may fail me, but I believe 85 occurred a fortnight ago. A followup is at 122, 123.
AB, is it your belief that I have no desire to vote OO? If so, please describe its origin.
Relatedly, this seems to be the point where future JT answered the twelve.
For the sake of sanity, (yes, this is where it happens), no quoting method is employed. Your understanding of this matter is appreciated.
1 = First paragraph of 81
2 = I must have been mistaken in my thoughts.
3 = I cannot recall. Perhaps I did not mean V. Though for that to be the case I would have to assign it elsewhere, and I do not think I could. It may still be from a future moment.
4 = Third paragraph of 81.
5 = 85.
6 = Why should it be significant?
7 = 122, 123.
Dear SL: 203 is answered with 123. It is simply what the game evokes. If it were not to be, it wouldn't have happened. And, it makes me feel happy. Apologies for the interruption, I will let future JT continue.
Thank you.
8 = Second paragraph of 81.
9 = 211, answer 3.
10 = Clearly V is royalty. Though I suspect you wish past JT to answer that one. I'm not sure if she did.
11 = I shall not be discussing this.
12 = Pointless conjecture.
But there are bonuses.
OD1: This is the source of my intense distrust of OO.
OD2: There is no OD2. Why necessitate a separate section with plurality when it contains only one item?
This is just sad. You can do better than that scummy twisted presentation of things.
~~~~~~~~~~
Here's a list of questions that you have evaded or not answered at all over the course of the game. I'm not holding out hope, but maybe you can provide solid answers to even one of them.
Perhaps I have played mafia before. Or I have played it in the future. Perhaps this is my first game of this sort while communicating on a message board and not in real life. It is also likely that I browsed the other mafia games going on and thought, "yes JT, this looks like A Thing You Could Do."
What empirical evidence makes or made Vaimes more likely to be a member of the mafia than any other player, give others players have not posted at all?
I believe I made it clear that the empirical evidence, to use your emphasis, exists in the future. The current existence is simply Words On A Screen that evoke distrust. Unless, you are suggesting I express personal reasons outside of my Words On A Screen, in which I must respectfully decline. I don't feel it is acceptable to ask anyone for... Words Beyond A Screen.
Your question implies that the answer should be the opposite of what you expect me to say. I think you are smarter than that and do not need An Explanation For Your Actions. Your question is simultaneously answered and not answered in no temporal manner.
2. Could you please expound on where you're coming from on the following quotes?
King Torg is someone I wouldn't trust with a secret.
Unless, you are suggesting I express personal reasons outside of my Words On A Screen, in which I must respectfully decline. I don't feel it is acceptable to ask anyone for... Words Beyond A Screen.
@Jenna Tolaria: No comprehension of perception of cautionary response? Hmph. Either you're audacious, feckless, or naive. I'm inclined to the second, but willing to consider the first. I really hope it's not the last. If it's the first, good luck with that. Second, why? Do you have that much confidence? Last, that's unfortunate.
Jenna-
I like #73's point on DoTA which I didn't notice until they pointed it out and I don't think #103 is likely to come from scum (Either Vox is co-aligned scum or known Town pushing "one of the dudes on this wagon is scum" and instead of trying to doubtcast their wagon-mates they try to dispel the entire motion) I am a bit concerned about their question dodging (which I was intentionally not bringing up until Osie mentioned it).
#76 (which I'm assuming is what you meant) is good, but could just as easily come from scum.
#103 is completely NAI to me.
Why are you not paying attention to Jenna's question dodging? It's extremely blatant and extremely scummy.
@Jenna: So you don't think a five person wagon on page two is significant?
Your question implies that the answer should be the opposite of what you expect me to say. I think you are smarter than that and do not need An Explanation For Your Actions. Your question is simultaneously answered and not answered in no temporal manner.
@AB: Of course I am not Kanaya or playing as Kanaya. What you see is myself. The game channels my inner Kanaya, and chiding me for not "roleplaying" her or following specific conventions universally thereof is preposterous.
@OO: In 85, there is no cage. You seem to believe there is one, though, so I'll entertain the thought: I don't.
Besides, the alternative for this matter is to call in the legislacerator, and I'm sure we all don't want to go down that path.
These are all the posts you're referring to if I'm not mistaken. Can you walk me through them in a clear and concise manner? Where are you implying that it could be an all-town wagon?
I'm surprised you don't mention Post 103 here, as that is the one I was referring to as the only possible post where you might have been talking about the possibility. Walk me through this one as well please:
I think it's a given that there is at least one scum on the wagon. In a game this size what's the suspected number of scum?
I think that while the odds prove favor, it is also quite foolish to conflate a hypothetical 80% into a 100%. Four times you win, One time you die. Is such a significant chance of death a self-advisable reality? Speaking of which, here comes DA with his recollection of a reality that does not match ours. His past self left behind no clues that would corroborate this suggestion, and in all cases it can be concluded that he is from a doomed timeline. My future self apologizes for the forthcoming image of DA, but there is nothing further regarding that matter than to rend.
I must say that attempting to quote posts is an exercise in Frustration Gratuity when the simple aim is my head to the game: flattened and wrapped.
[Voxxicus]. [Colin], and [Jenna] are Those Trusted.
[Killjoy] and [ShadowLancerx] are Unknown Agents,
[Vaimes], [A Bear], [Reaverb Tau], [TubbaFett], [King Torg] require Future JT to chime: Please remind me of these people? Thank you for that prompt response about AB particularly.
[DotArchon] and [Osieorb] are Those Untrusted.
Future JT, again: Even if you still distrust OO, it would go a long way to fulfill the twelve.
This is slight Future JT speaking: AB aligns with you, Past JT, in both thought and assignment.
01. TubbaFett - If Colin's claims are true, TF should perish. [SCUM]
02. DoTArchon - Continuing pursuit. [SCUM]
03. Voxxicus - Nocturnal victim already trusted. [TOWN]
04. Reaverb Tau - Historical side remains to be seen. [NULL?]
05. Grapefruit21 r. A Bear - Conflicting vouchers leave me perplexed. [NULL? POSSIBLY BECAUSE OF THE REPLACEMENT?]
06. King Torg - Wishing for remains to be seen. [NULL]
07. shadowlancerx - Doubtlessly respected. [TOWN]
08. Jenna Tolaria - Respects doubt. [TOWN]
09. Colin - Doubt remains, respectfully.[LEAN TOWN]
10. Killjoy r. Empoof - I haven't seen any posts by Killjoy. [NULL]
Ok so I was looking through Jenna's ISO, and had some questions about the progressions here.
(Nicknames obviously replaced by me in the first post, bold interpretations in the second also mine)
Shadow was an Unknown Agent in the first post (from the words 'unknown agent' I'd assume null. From the structure of the list, maybe Lean Town?) and now has jumped to "doubtlessly respected"... which seems to indicate a townie feeling as well, given you put respect in the section for yourself. Now, if he was originally null... what about him seems town now? If he UA means town, then that prompts my next question:
You had me also as UA, but now you "haven't seen any posts by me". So, can you explain how that can make sense? Either you were townreading me in the first post, then for some reason changed it to "aren't reading my posts" (in which case... why aren't you?) Or I was Null, and still am... which again makes me wonder why you aren't reading my posts.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Tubba:I have a question relating to something you said in the scumchat of Low Fantasy: You implied you didn't know what to fake when trying to fake as town. Low Fantasy was obviously your first game, and you were scum. Have you still never been town?
This is my first time as town. I take it that it shows?🙃
@Voxx
Regarding your feelings on Bear, I'm inclined to take your word for it, I've no previous experience with them so everything you say could be true and a perfectly valid reason to put vote pressure on them. However, I dont think you are going to be able to bring enough people on with what is essentially a meta read to make a lynch happen there. Talk to me about Osie, Tau, Dot and Colin. Does your meta offer you any insight on those players?
@Tubba Fett
Why are you inclined to take Voxx's word for anything? Are you townreading Voxx? If so, why had you not mentioned it before this post? Why didn't you vote A Bear here?
I misspoke. I mean, what choice do I have though, I don't know Bear. Does that make sense?
I'm not taking Voxx's word for anything. I want to know what he thinks about meta reads in general, and what he has to say about the people I asked about.
Voxx is in the middle for me right now, but I don't need a townread on him to want to hear what he has to say.
I've had a town read on you since your return from the V/LA. Before that I was a bit uncertain but your posts from that point onwards read to me as pure info spill, you're putting down everything that's going through your mind and none of it reads as scum trying to push an agenda.
Vaimes dying on night 1 solidifies that read for me because the two of you have a history together and I think scumVoxx would keep a townVaimes who wasn't scumreading him alive as long as possible because, if played correctly, he would defend you to the end or, if you flip he gets mislynched as a partner.
I could possibly see one of Shadow and Killjoy having a hand in selecting Vaimes as the N1 target, but I have kinda have townreads on both at the moment.
I disagree with the bolded text. Vaimes townreading Voxx, then flipping town is the second best thing that could happen to scumVoxx. Best was nk power role to boot. scumVoxx makes a killing with this play, and doesn't have to worry about Vaimes (a player of some experience I assume, and familiar with Voxx as well?) ever suspecting him.
Ugh. So many words to read, and so little time. I'm just gonna start with my T/S list and work from there.
King Torg
Tau
Killjoy
Shadow
A Bear
Colin
Tubba Fett
DoTA
Jenna Tolaria
(specific order doesn't matter, just the tiers)
Vote: Jenna Tolaria
Jenna has consistently been cryptic and nonproductive with their posts. It seems like their posts are being purposely confusing with the phrasing, abbreviations, and quoting methods. All in all, it just seems like really scummy behavior.
I'll elaborate more later.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"When I'm sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story"
-Barney Stinson
I thought 103 was a dream, but it exists. I'd've included it, for it answers best.
A post by KillJoy; I am excited! Is it odd to feel positive towards someone unknown? Like a true love that you haven't met yet but have been told that they're behind the door. It is as if a fairy has whispered Good Things to me, and one does not question a fairy who speaks as such. An I mad? I feel quite the opposite.
Clarifications for Killjoy: my thoughts on FruitBear bear fruit, but it is the opposite of what others vouch for. Such vouchers leave me perplexed. As for Shadow, I am proud to say that the trust comes from A Thing I Came Up With All By Myself. It is my personal achievement, stronger than mine of FruitBear, based off Shadow's strength.
Additionally, you misread me regarding King Torg: I wish for his remains to be seen.
The contrast between Torg and Tubba causes great amusement.
One showcases fear of the unknown, the other yearns to understand it. Would it be too far-fetched to suggest that these poles translate into other matters? I think not. My mind's made.
Part of the reason I locked onto Osie was a similarity from the last game we were in. When JeY started to scumread Eternal, scum was quick to discredit and turn the read around on her. So, with an Osie town flip that reasoning goes down the drain and I'm back to square one.
If Shadow is town (50/50 imo), I still have to think there's at least one scum on that wagon. It's too tempting to pass up, a potential page 1/2 lynch with hardly any interactions to backtrack and analyse. Vaimes=town, Osie=town, Dot=?, Jenna=?, Voxx=???.
If Shadow is scum, I still think there's probably a scum on there, for distancing and possible town crowd with a Shadow scum flip.
Just read through Vaimes Iso and...it didn't give me much of anything interesting. He was definitely on A Bear pretty hard, and had some piddly interactions with several other people, but I'm not getting anything out of it.
It's possible that someone who knows him really well took a gamble that his cageyness was his way of trying to hide a PR, but there is nothing to substantiate that.
He also noted down Jenna as town. Anyone who knows Jenna; would she kill someone would was likely to defend her?
Lets try @Jenna: Can I get a reads list from you? Preferably without abbriviations?
@Tubba:I have a question relating to something you said in the scumchat of Low Fantasy: You implied you didn't know what to fake when trying to fake as town. Low Fantasy was obviously your first game, and you were scum. Have you still never been town?
Not @Tubba: Speaking of Low Fantasy, EternalLurker completely fooled me. I had him as town for much the same reason as I have Colin/Bear (plus he was doing some townieesque arguing which I liked) and as such I want to reexamine my reads on them for some kind of specific motivation that I can relate to a specific alignment instead of what essentially amounts to a gut Townie read of "they're trying" in various degrees.
@DotA: Cute kid. You should probably return him to his parents soon before they get worried though.
I was roleblocked last night.
I guess it's theoretically possible it's a town roleblock on me (jailkeeper?) and they made the right call in doc dodging heh.
Whatever, it's all wifom - I'll just say that if it was a jailkeeper on me, to like, flip a coin on protecting me or your second most obvious protect, so wolves have to either risk a bounce or shoot into the possible PoE.
@Killjoy:
@Voxx: Is it wise to bring that up now? Why paint a target on your head as a PR at the beginning of Day 2?
Hum. I don't hate this I guess?
I don't think Dota is clear, and don't think you or Colin are quite 100% clear, but I don't disagree that there's probably at least one in (Tubba/Torg/Grapefruit/Dota) and at least one in (Reaverb/Jenna/Colin). It's obviously _possible_ all 3 were on or off, but I consider that pretty unlikely given holistic gameflow things.
Let's just say I thought about it fully before bringing it up, and let wolves worry about what that means.
I'd like to see a full reads list, or continuation of the stuff you started on D1. Like, one of the biggest reasons you weren't lynched is that you just...weren't around, so it'd be useful if you were able to dump as much thoughts and content as possible so people can actively generate a read on your slot instead of "Hasn't been all that townie, so...maybe wolf?"
Like, assume I'm scum here - who do I kill instead of Vaimes? Walk me through what you think Scum!Voxx's path to victory is and why he wouldn't kill Vaimes when considering it. I want to see you think.
Shadow/Voxx should still explain their scumreads on me, and their EoD behavior in general. Right now I'm thinking one or both might be scum with DoTA and intentionally used the Bear wagon to redirect away from DoTA. Particularly weird is shadow talking about how terrible the EoD chaos was when he was a major cause of it.
If you have an outstanding question, I will mention when I've caught up so you know if I've genuinely missed it.
Vote: Killjoy
Your content up until your readspost was all things that are more effective at making somebody /look/ Town rather than /actually helping Town/ (relative to most other types of content). Nitpicking specific ancient posts makes it looks like you're evaluating everything in-thread, but it's much less effective than scanning ISOs for particular patterns of behavior or specifically ranking players in a way that can later referenced or discussed.
I put you as null in #149 because I thought it might have been a 1-shot catch-up post, but then #186 was almost identical in style. I think townreading you for that post is still weird.
Well if you're town and you weren't blocked by a wolf, then you've given them information about yourself and other town. It seems to me that town doesn't really benefit from this information at the moment. You say you've "thought about it fully", but I still feel it's short-sighted.
I'm used to asking for reads list being considered rude due to the effort involved. Does that not apply here due to the Day length?
@Tubba Fett
Why are you inclined to take Voxx's word for anything? Are you townreading Voxx? If so, why had you not mentioned it before this post? Why didn't you vote A Bear here?
Vote Reaverb
Your suspicion of me/Voxx as a team is laughably ridiculous and just not a thought I believe you would have as town; annnnnnd then voting a person you haven't even mentioned in this post after spouting 3 other people you think are scum? Nope.
Killjoy is another scumread of mine. Tunneling on a single world is obviously anti-Town behavior.
----
Since shadow seems to love dodging questions, I'm going to put this as a signature on all my posts until he properly explains his scumread on me.
###
Number of posts shadow has made without explaining his scumread on me after trying to get me lynched D1: 3
I am caught up with the thread now, if I haven't answered a question please bring it up.
###
Number of posts shadow has made without explaining his scumread on me after trying to get me lynched D1: 3
02. DoTArchon - Continuing pursuit.
03. Voxxicus - Nocturnal victim already trusted.
04. Reaverb Tau - Historical side remains to be seen.
05. Grapefruit21 r. A Bear - Conflicting vouchers leave me perplexed.
06. King Torg - Wishing for remains to be seen.
07. shadowlancerx - Doubtlessly respected.
08. Jenna Tolaria - Respects doubt.
09. Colin - Doubt remains, respectfully.
10. Killjoy r. Empoof - I haven't seen any posts by Killjoy.
This and Shadow's quick barn of it jump out at me. Jenna's post is the kind that demands follow up. But neither really does anything more than poke at it. It feels like rushing to try and point to how weak the post was rather than being interested in trying to figure out what it means. All three people involved look scummy for it but in an unaligned way.
I hate this sort of post. Shadow did you ever give reasons for why those 5? I know your reads are in different places now but this list was very strange.
I know it's a broken record at this point of the game but this is another weird interaction with Jenna, I'm just not sure what Jenna is trying to accomplish this game. I miss Vaimes already...
This post looks really bad in light of Osie's flip. Dota distances himself from a wagon he was on (yes just an RVS one) and turns on a wagon mate for being opportunistic. I've made that play as scum before and it's an easy way to try to get action moving early without having to commit to reads. Major scum points for Dota there. And Bear agrees in 209 which is a bonus.
And town points to Tubba for the outloud bookmark and defense of it that followed.
To be continued...
---
Please re-read post #221
---
Voxx has done nothing remotely outside of his scum range. I don't know you hugely well except that you're good at both town and scum, and you don't appear to have done much outside of get wagoned (which I said from the start might have been an intentional distancing measure) and given reads without many reasons. I don't know which Voxx/you exchange you're referring to, but nothing struck me as significantly indicative of anti-alignment when reading through it.
###
Number of posts shadow has made without explaining his scumread on me after trying to get me lynched D1: 5
Ohhh turns out I'm a bit daft... Significantly less suspect then.
Ha, busride autocorrected to buddies. My phone knows that its primary function is Mafia.
This is a good post and the big bolded question still needs to be answered. Why is Jenna town? I see nothing suggesting she is. I get that there isn't a ton to suggest she isn't either though. But as was pointed out eloquently mafia is a team game and it's hard to win if people are obfuscating their opinions. I tend to assume malevolence when that happens. Though toDay has been a bit better. I actually like 366 even if it's still hard to decipher.
If that is not a town post I don't know what is. I don't agree with the reads (I like Tubba!) but I like the process even if it feels a bit biased towards those Colin is familiar with.
Tau's posts make my eyes glaze completely over. I tried to read this like 5 times and could not get through it. Note to self to ISO Tau at some point soon. Maybe removing context will help.
If Dota were to flip scum I'd want to look closely at Voxx given he was a huge part of the CFD onto Osie over Dota. That said I don't think scum often makes this sort of argument when white knighting. This is a scum+ post for Voxx if Dota flips scum and a town+ post in a vacuum.
Anyway reads:
Town
Colin
Tubba
Voxx
Shadow/Tau/KJ
Jenna
Dota
Scum
Biggest problems I have is I have no opinion on Tau or KJ and need to resolve that and my top two scum reads are close to mutually exclusive.
Vote: DotaArchon
Just reading through your posts there's a bunch of small markers all over that are scummy in a vacuum as well, and not a lot of indicators of a townie mindset that I can see.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/search?search-thread-id=780342&by-author=Tubba Fett
Vaimes dying on night 1 solidifies that read for me because the two of you have a history together and I think scumVoxx would keep a townVaimes who wasn't scumreading him alive as long as possible because, if played correctly, he would defend you to the end or, if you flip he gets mislynched as a partner.
I could possibly see one of Shadow and Killjoy having a hand in selecting Vaimes as the N1 target, but I have kinda have townreads on both at the moment.
Vaimes and Osie are now confirmed town, Voxx is a strong town read for me and I know I'm town(even though most disagree).I'm still uncertain of where I stand on Jenna, but would scumJenna vote Shadow to L-2 with no reasoning?
Could it be possibile that this was an all-town wagon? And if so, what then?
DoTArchon - 1 (Jenna Tolaria)
Killjoy - 1 (Reaverb Tau)
Reaverb Tau - 1 (shadowlancerx)
Tubba Fett - 1 (Colin)
Not Voting - 6 (Tubba Fett, DoTArchon, Voxxicus, A Bear, King Torg, Killjoy)
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends at 11:59 PM Eastern on 29 October.
216 refers to "5 = 85", question 5 of 155, which quotes 84, the followup at 85. Math may fail me, but I believe 85 occurred a fortnight ago. A followup is at 122, 123.
Post 155
Posts 84 and 85
Posts 122 and 123
These are all the posts you're referring to if I'm not mistaken. Can you walk me through them in a clear and concise manner? Where are you implying that it could be an all-town wagon?
I'm surprised you don't mention Post 103 here, as that is the one I was referring to as the only possible post where you might have been talking about the possibility. Walk me through this one as well please:
Ok so I was looking through Jenna's ISO, and had some questions about the progressions here.
(Nicknames obviously replaced by me in the first post, bold interpretations in the second also mine)
Shadow was an Unknown Agent in the first post (from the words 'unknown agent' I'd assume null. From the structure of the list, maybe Lean Town?) and now has jumped to "doubtlessly respected"... which seems to indicate a townie feeling as well, given you put respect in the section for yourself. Now, if he was originally null... what about him seems town now? If he UA means town, then that prompts my next question:
You had me also as UA, but now you "haven't seen any posts by me". So, can you explain how that can make sense? Either you were townreading me in the first post, then for some reason changed it to "aren't reading my posts" (in which case... why aren't you?) Or I was Null, and still am... which again makes me wonder why you aren't reading my posts.
This is my first time as town. I take it that it shows?🙃
I misspoke. I mean, what choice do I have though, I don't know Bear. Does that make sense?
I'm not taking Voxx's word for anything. I want to know what he thinks about meta reads in general, and what he has to say about the people I asked about.
Voxx is in the middle for me right now, but I don't need a townread on him to want to hear what he has to say.
I disagree with the bolded text. Vaimes townreading Voxx, then flipping town is the second best thing that could happen to scumVoxx. Best was nk power role to boot. scumVoxx makes a killing with this play, and doesn't have to worry about Vaimes (a player of some experience I assume, and familiar with Voxx as well?) ever suspecting him.
King Torg
Tau
Killjoy
Shadow
A Bear
Colin
Tubba Fett
DoTA
Jenna Tolaria
(specific order doesn't matter, just the tiers)
Vote: Jenna Tolaria
Jenna has consistently been cryptic and nonproductive with their posts. It seems like their posts are being purposely confusing with the phrasing, abbreviations, and quoting methods. All in all, it just seems like really scummy behavior.
I'll elaborate more later.
-Barney Stinson
"Hodor"
-Hodor
A post by KillJoy; I am excited! Is it odd to feel positive towards someone unknown? Like a true love that you haven't met yet but have been told that they're behind the door. It is as if a fairy has whispered Good Things to me, and one does not question a fairy who speaks as such. An I mad? I feel quite the opposite.
Clarifications for Killjoy: my thoughts on FruitBear bear fruit, but it is the opposite of what others vouch for. Such vouchers leave me perplexed. As for Shadow, I am proud to say that the trust comes from A Thing I Came Up With All By Myself. It is my personal achievement, stronger than mine of FruitBear, based off Shadow's strength.
Additionally, you misread me regarding King Torg: I wish for his remains to be seen.
One showcases fear of the unknown, the other yearns to understand it. Would it be too far-fetched to suggest that these poles translate into other matters? I think not. My mind's made.
But it still doesn't necessarily make Jenna town, just less mysterious.
If Shadow is town (50/50 imo), I still have to think there's at least one scum on that wagon. It's too tempting to pass up, a potential page 1/2 lynch with hardly any interactions to backtrack and analyse. Vaimes=town, Osie=town, Dot=?, Jenna=?, Voxx=???.
If Shadow is scum, I still think there's probably a scum on there, for distancing and possible town crowd with a Shadow scum flip.
Talk to me about Dot, Jenna and Voxx.
It's possible that someone who knows him really well took a gamble that his cageyness was his way of trying to hide a PR, but there is nothing to substantiate that.
He also noted down Jenna as town. Anyone who knows Jenna; would she kill someone would was likely to defend her?