Thing is, it was a gamble. I reread the game and got a paranoid feeling about Terry. He was posting a lot but as much as he was saying we should treat this as a regular game of Mafia there was little in his posts that made me think he was following his own advice. His posts after the shot went off had me seriously doubting myself right up until his alignment was revealed, and I fully expected to be catching flak for shooting 2 town members. So no, I don't feel like people should be listening to me because I was right, it was the same stupid paranoid play I've made countless times before, only this time it worked out.
Right now I have no idea which of you is scum, and since I'm not going to be putting a gun to my own head I need to figure out who I'm supposed to be shooting at.
Bur seems interested in engaging with me, D_V just fired a shot without any further input.
Shoot: D_V
Iso, I hope you were right.
I've imputed a lot.
I want to retract my shoot at Bur now and shoot at you.
Why? DoTA's #101 felt really genuine and I'm feeling good about him.
Why is he more scummy than me in your eyes?
I was going to say I was confused why you are not shooting right now.
But then I realized even if you're scum you don't win for sure right now.
I'm conflicted about you because you've now said that you feel that about both me and Dota. Feels genuine etc.
Dota's reasoning sucks though. Its just a "I don't know who to pick" Wait I do know who to pick DV for this one silly reason. He also says "I trust Iso" and that is that. He says it is a "Gamble" but it isn't he has given reasons. It feels to me like he is playing both sides at this point and just trying to get us to shoot each other.
So, here's where I am currently.
I haven't reread the game (yet), but I should since I can't really recall Terry's interactions.
I've been thinking about this game for a while and actually wanted to ask D_V at the beginning of the day (after #90) what are his current read / what does he think about DoTA. Had he answered something like "I'm townreading DoTA / scumreading Bur", I would've been hounding for his blood, but since his #96 implies otherwise, I need to re-evaluate.
(In before "why": Since his #90 wouldn't have made sense had he had a strong read on either of us. He was confident about DoTA/me, he would've shot me and not be "I probably don't shoot anyone anymore". But, since his #96 "I flipped a coin" is in line with this, I'm dropping the issue.)
I need to re-read this game (luckily it's only 2 pages).
Anyways, few things:
@DV: Why are you not townreading DoTA for shooting Terry? Do you think it might've been a turbobus?
@DoTA: Why are do you care what we think of you? I would've expected more "look, I shot a scum! Now I'm confirmed town" -attitude from you than this current one...
I'll be around for maybe an hour or so before I head back to bed...
That's literally what this post suggests.
Well Bur you gotta shoot now its only you bae.
I was still pretty sure you were scum so I thought you were going to shoot. But then I realized you can still miss so if you are scum you still gotta play for a little longer at least.
So, here's where I am currently.
I haven't reread the game (yet), but I should since I can't really recall Terry's interactions.
I've been thinking about this game for a while and actually wanted to ask D_V at the beginning of the day (after #90) what are his current read / what does he think about DoTA. Had he answered something like "I'm townreading DoTA / scumreading Bur", I would've been hounding for his blood, but since his #96 implies otherwise, I need to re-evaluate.
(In before "why": Since his #90 wouldn't have made sense had he had a strong read on either of us. He was confident about DoTA/me, he would've shot me and not be "I probably don't shoot anyone anymore". But, since his #96 "I flipped a coin" is in line with this, I'm dropping the issue.)
I need to re-read this game (luckily it's only 2 pages).
Anyways, few things:
@DV: Why are you not townreading DoTA for shooting Terry? Do you think it might've been a turbobus?
@DoTA: Why are do you care what we think of you? I would've expected more "look, I shot a scum! Now I'm confirmed town" -attitude from you than this current one...
I'll be around for maybe an hour or so before I head back to bed...
That's literally what this post suggests.
Well Bur you gotta shoot now its only you bae.
I was still pretty sure you were scum so I thought you were going to shoot. But then I realized you can still miss so if you are scum you still gotta play for a little longer at least.
Bur seems interested in engaging with me, D_V just fired a shot without any further input.
Shoot: D_V
Iso, I hope you were right.
I've imputed a lot.
I want to retract my shoot at Bur now and shoot at you.
You gave a fair amount of input in the early game, but since the start of this day you've had very little to say. Especially with the shot you took, there was no explanation beyond that you flipped a coin and you'd wanted to shoot Bur anyway. Why Bur? How can I know that you're town trying to win this if you're just firing randomly. If you truly just flipped a coin then you could have just as easily fired a shot at me, and if you aren't going to defend why you'd take that risk then I'm going to assume that you're scum.
When I asked for your thoughts on how I saw the two of you all you said was my points areThere's only 3 of is left, and as I keep pointing out, if we shoot town the game comes down to luck.
Bur seems interested in engaging with me, D_V just fired a shot without any further input.
Shoot: D_V
Iso, I hope you were right.
I've imputed a lot.
I want to retract my shoot at Bur now and shoot at you.
Why? DoTA's #101 felt really genuine and I'm feeling good about him.
Why is he more scummy than me in your eyes?
I was going to say I was confused why you are not shooting right now.
But then I realized even if you're scum you don't win for sure right now.
I'm conflicted about you because you've now said that you feel that about both me and Dota. Feels genuine etc.
Dota's reasoning sucks though. Its just a "I don't know who to pick" Wait I do know who to pick DV for this one silly reason. He also says "I trust Iso" and that is that. He says it is a "Gamble" but it isn't he has given reasons. It feels to me like he is playing both sides at this point and just trying to get us to shoot each other.
See above. My reasoning is that you shot without reason. You said you were waiting for Bur so you could ask something before posting your thoughts but then shot before following through with that. My shot wasn't only based on Iso saying "D_V is scum...".
If I did bus Terry for town cred it was the stupidest play ever since one living scum is forced into a 1v1 luck-based shootout at the endgame, and that would only be if I survived to endgame.
It may seem like I'm trying to play you against one another but that's because one of you is town and should not be wasting shots firing at me. I can only hope that whichever of you that is sees that so we can try and win this. And if it is you that's town D_V, then convince me why I should be firing at Bur over you.
If I did bus Terry for town cred it was the stupidest play ever since one living scum is forced into a 1v1 luck-based shootout at the endgame, and that would only be if I survived to endgame.
It may seem like I'm trying to play you against one another but that's because one of you is town and should not be wasting shots firing at me. I can only hope that whichever of you that is sees that so we can try and win this. And if it is you that's town D_V, then convince me why I should be firing at Bur over you.
I mean convince me to not shoot you instead of Bur?
What about my play in this game makes you think I'm scum? You're angry that I pulled the trigger on you but other than that what makes you suspect me over Bur?
If you really believe Bur is town then from my perspective that only leaves you.
What about my play in this game makes you think I'm scum? You're angry that I pulled the trigger on you but other than that what makes you suspect me over Bur?
If you really believe Bur is town then from my perspective that only leaves you.
@Bur You still around?
You shot at me of course that means you think Bur is town from your claimed prospective.
I'm saying it is fake.
All of your logic is literally one sided that can be flipped on its head instantly.
What about my play in this game makes you think I'm scum? You're angry that I pulled the trigger on you but other than that what makes you suspect me over Bur?
If you really believe Bur is town then from my perspective that only leaves you.
@Bur You still around?
You shot at me of course that means you think Bur is town from your claimed prospective.
I'm saying it is fake.
All of your logic is literally one sided that can be flipped on its head instantly.
No, I think Bur is more town than you are. There is still a possibility that he is scum, but I don't have a strong enough read of him to want to shoot at him. I think it more likely that you are the last remaininf scum. If I'm wrong and you die, then I hope like hell that luck favours me in the final showdown.
Tell me something, if Bur comes in tomorrow and shoots at you, does that make him scum?
What about my play in this game makes you think I'm scum? You're angry that I pulled the trigger on you but other than that what makes you suspect me over Bur?
If you really believe Bur is town then from my perspective that only leaves you.
@Bur You still around?
You shot at me of course that means you think Bur is town from your claimed prospective.
I'm saying it is fake.
All of your logic is literally one sided that can be flipped on its head instantly.
No, I think Bur is more town than you are. There is still a possibility that he is scum, but I don't have a strong enough read of him to want to shoot at him. I think it more likely that you are the last remaininf scum. If I'm wrong and you die, then I hope like hell that luck favours me in the final showdown.
Tell me something, if Bur comes in tomorrow and shoots at you, does that make him scum?
I'm starting to wonder if Bur is scum and we are tunneling because we are the only ones that are posting.
Bur really has given very little content.
I went and reread Drunken Tracker Mafia and I'm coming to the same conclusion. You and I had a very similar run-in with one another and Bur kinda lurked his way around the edges of the game, asking questions but never following through on things.
Problem is we're held up on firing until Bur uses his shot...
I reread the game. DV and Terry barely interacted before D3 hit and even then it was just Terry FoS'ing DV and asking if I'm his buddy.
Idk, Terry's attack on DV feels bit limp and not like he really wants DV dead.
Even from DV's side the interactions more or less are limited to "nice, you're tunneling on me again"
While DoTA has been hard against Terry, asking questions (not just from Terry), and otherwise game solve-y.
DoTA has been interacting with Terry from the D1, until he finally shot him D3.
I thought about this for a while, but I'm leaning on it being DV.
If Terry/DoTA had decided to do some distancing, why would it only have been from DoTA's side and not Terry's? I would've expected them both to have been pressuring each other and not just DoTA pressuring Terry. While DV/Terry has really non-existent interactions until D3, and even then they are bit lacking the punch.
And I have a secret meta check for town!DV and I can't see it here anywhere.
Shoot: D_V
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
That was one of my biggest points for suspecting Bur in the post where I shot Terry, the fact that Terry had pretty much engaged with everyone (even if just to cast suspicion) yet there were only two mentions of Bur in all of his posts. If you'd made the argument that D_V's shot on Meg and subsequent reasoning looked suspect, or that he and I clashing toDay looked faked or hell, even if you'd called me out for the Osieorb/Terry shots, I probably would have given you the benefit of the doubt. Your interaction analysis though is way off in that Terry did still engage with D_V, you on the other hand may as well have been invisible.
This is the entirety of your interaction with Terry:
Terry: You've done the math obviously, what are your thoughts on when it's best for town to fire?
I get that this is a fun format, but it is still mafia at the core. We need to analyze players and not just running around shooting people. Maybe we should actually implement a voting system where we decide as a town who gets shot and we shoot them until they are dead?
I think I like this suggestion?
(Also, TFW you open the thread for the first time and it's already D2)
@DoTA: Why osie? And why shoot him before letting him respond to your points?
That was one of my biggest points for suspecting Bur in the post where I shot Terry, the fact that Terry had pretty much engaged with everyone (even if just to cast suspicion) yet there were only two mentions of Bur in all of his posts. If you'd made the argument that D_V's shot on Meg and subsequent reasoning looked suspect, or that he and I clashing toDay looked faked or hell, even if you'd called me out for the Osieorb/Terry shots, I probably would have given you the benefit of the doubt. Your interaction analysis though is way off in that Terry did still engage with D_V, you on the other hand may as well have been invisible.
This is the entirety of your interaction with Terry:
Terry: You've done the math obviously, what are your thoughts on when it's best for town to fire?
I get that this is a fun format, but it is still mafia at the core. We need to analyze players and not just running around shooting people. Maybe we should actually implement a voting system where we decide as a town who gets shot and we shoot them until they are dead?
I think I like this suggestion?
(Also, TFW you open the thread for the first time and it's already D2)
@DoTA: Why osie? And why shoot him before letting him respond to your points?
Your lack of interaction in the early game with anyone is a valid point but the specific interaction between you and Terry feels off. You dont commit or condemn his idea and he doesn't push or elaborate.
Well, both of us missed so you have a guarenteed kill. If you are town shoot D_V and you'll have my apologies in the postgame, if your scum just pull the trigger wherever so we can move to the showdown.
I'm off to bed. Hopefully we've won by the time i wake up.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Bur, as promised I do apologise for the last minute shot on you. D_V did a good job of keeping me going and getting me to start doubting myself about tunneling him.
Right now I have no idea which of you is scum, and since I'm not going to be putting a gun to my own head I need to figure out who I'm supposed to be shooting at.
Bur seems interested in engaging with me, D_V just fired a shot without any further input.
Shoot: D_V
Iso, I hope you were right.
I've imputed a lot.
I want to retract my shoot at Bur now and shoot at you.
Why? DoTA's #101 felt really genuine and I'm feeling good about him.
Why is he more scummy than me in your eyes?
I was going to say I was confused why you are not shooting right now.
But then I realized even if you're scum you don't win for sure right now.
I'm conflicted about you because you've now said that you feel that about both me and Dota. Feels genuine etc.
Dota's reasoning sucks though. Its just a "I don't know who to pick" Wait I do know who to pick DV for this one silly reason. He also says "I trust Iso" and that is that. He says it is a "Gamble" but it isn't he has given reasons. It feels to me like he is playing both sides at this point and just trying to get us to shoot each other.
Why did you think I was going to shoot now?
That's literally what this post suggests.
Well Bur you gotta shoot now its only you bae.
I was still pretty sure you were scum so I thought you were going to shoot. But then I realized you can still miss so if you are scum you still gotta play for a little longer at least.
That's literally what this post suggests.
Well Bur you gotta shoot now its only you bae.
I was still pretty sure you were scum so I thought you were going to shoot. But then I realized you can still miss so if you are scum you still gotta play for a little longer at least.
When I asked for your thoughts on how I saw the two of you all you said was my points areThere's only 3 of is left, and as I keep pointing out, if we shoot town the game comes down to luck.
If I did bus Terry for town cred it was the stupidest play ever since one living scum is forced into a 1v1 luck-based shootout at the endgame, and that would only be if I survived to endgame.
It may seem like I'm trying to play you against one another but that's because one of you is town and should not be wasting shots firing at me. I can only hope that whichever of you that is sees that so we can try and win this. And if it is you that's town D_V, then convince me why I should be firing at Bur over you.
I mean convince me to not shoot you instead of Bur?
The logic you are using is so one sided.
If you really believe Bur is town then from my perspective that only leaves you.
@Bur You still around?
You shot at me of course that means you think Bur is town from your claimed prospective.
I'm saying it is fake.
All of your logic is literally one sided that can be flipped on its head instantly.
I just got home and it's already 0.30 AM and I need to wake up before 6AM.
I'll be home tomorrow in timely manner to play this game more.
Tell me something, if Bur comes in tomorrow and shoots at you, does that make him scum?
This is so waffle scummy.
Bur shoot this *****.
Bur really has given very little content.
Problem is we're held up on firing until Bur uses his shot...
WAZ UP
I reread the game. DV and Terry barely interacted before D3 hit and even then it was just Terry FoS'ing DV and asking if I'm his buddy.
Idk, Terry's attack on DV feels bit limp and not like he really wants DV dead.
Even from DV's side the interactions more or less are limited to "nice, you're tunneling on me again"
While DoTA has been hard against Terry, asking questions (not just from Terry), and otherwise game solve-y.
DoTA has been interacting with Terry from the D1, until he finally shot him D3.
I thought about this for a while, but I'm leaning on it being DV.
If Terry/DoTA had decided to do some distancing, why would it only have been from DoTA's side and not Terry's? I would've expected them both to have been pressuring each other and not just DoTA pressuring Terry. While DV/Terry has really non-existent interactions until D3, and even then they are bit lacking the punch.
And I have a secret meta check for town!DV and I can't see it here anywhere.
Shoot: D_V
plz b skum
It is still Day 5.
For the record Bur has zero interaction with Terry and Terry has Zero interaction with Bur.
But that's his attack on me.
Shoot: Bur
If dota is scum I'm fine losing to him. I keep trying to push his buttons and he keeps being unequivocally town.
This is the entirety of your interaction with Terry:
Shoot: Bur
If it's D_V then I'll take my chances in the showdown.
If we lose these two flips then we lose the two flips.
Prior to D5, more or less no one had any interactions with me and I barely had any interactions with anyone.
Now, let's see what happens
Well, both of us missed so you have a guarenteed kill. If you are town shoot D_V and you'll have my apologies in the postgame, if your scum just pull the trigger wherever so we can move to the showdown.
I'm off to bed. Hopefully we've won by the time i wake up.
What are the odds...
I was at my friends place today, playing board games. I had several cases of "I need a critical (D20) to survive" and I survived them all.
Anyways, I'll wait for DV to arrive and hear what he has to say.
Stop slow rolling and kill one of the town.
So that leaves you.
If you're town and want to lose shoot Me I guess.
But that doesn't even lose you the game because then you and Scum Dota have your show down.
Let's see if DoTA fooled us all.
Shoot: D_V
(Lol.)
D_V has died. He was:
All of the mafia have died. Town wins!
Link to scum chat: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/S45gmMkEGPXz
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Iso: Yeah yeah
Thanks everyone, was an interesting game.
Fun game! I think the setup needs a little work, but it was an interesting bit of statistics.
Huge shoutout to the comods.
It was more like that everyone else was a Stormtrooper.